Star Wars Thread: Episode II

Topic

Always two, there are.

Replies

saga wrote:

True, although if you include those with a first movie that succeeded as proof of concept leading to a trilogy there are things like Back to the Future, the Matrix and Pirates of the Caribbean. For better or worse they at least had a plan for what came next.

Being designed from the ground-up as a trilogy should have given them an advantage when it came to having a plan from the very start. Otherwise why bother designating it as a trilogy?  Just make a movie, tell a story, count the pennies, wait a couple of years, throw out another one and repeat ad nauseam.

The difference in those three cases was they were all filmed back to back as two-part sequels with the same writer and director teams for both movies.

I’d say more than a plan the sequel trilogy needed just a vision. It is the issue everyone says here, Abrams came in to make essentially a remake (young directionless hero from a desert planet gets plans from a droid to take down super weapon, joins up with rebellion to take it down) with huge dollops of nostalgia, Johnson came in to subvert everything you thought would happen, Abrams came in to ignore all that and head back to the nostalgia.

In hindsight I think the biggest error was bringing back Abrams. I think they could have salvaged a better ending with someone more detached, his ‘correction’ of TLJ plot points to get back to his idea of what should have happened makes the whole thing a bigger mess.

I think TFA and TLJ are flawed films but also have their strengths. The last episode weakens both of them.

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Rocket, Dave, lorcan_nagle

Yeah, I don’t think there’s any one thing they could have done differently that would have made the sequels better, and while many of the suggestions could have made them better, I don’t think anything is guaranteed to do so except maybe not spending Rise of the Skywalker walking back Last Jedi.

I do maintain that history will be very kind to Last Jedi as a movie though. It’s absolutely flawed but it has more to say about Star Wars as a franchise than basically anything else Lucasfilm has produced or licensed.

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Dave

saga wrote:

True, although if you include those with a first movie that succeeded as proof of concept leading to a trilogy there are things like Back to the Future, the Matrix and Pirates of the Caribbean. For better or worse they at least had a plan for what came next.

I’m not sure any of those really had a plan so much as they left their options open and created worlds rich enough to warrant further exploration.

The end of BTTF was meant to be a gag more than a direct “to be continued” type thing. (That caption was added on the home video release after the movie became a hit.)

I’m not claiming they were perfect by any means but compared to the Star Wars sequel shitshow they seem as intricately structured as Memento.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

saga wrote:

True, although if you include those with a first movie that succeeded as proof of concept leading to a trilogy there are things like Back to the Future, the Matrix and Pirates of the Caribbean. For better or worse they at least had a plan for what came next.

Being designed from the ground-up as a trilogy should have given them an advantage when it came to having a plan from the very start. Otherwise why bother designating it as a trilogy?  Just make a movie, tell a story, count the pennies, wait a couple of years, throw out another one and repeat ad nauseam.

The difference in those three cases was they were all filmed back to back as two-part sequels with the same writer and director teams for both movies.

Well, that’s my point. The Star Wars sequels could have had a similar approach to the creative side and would likely have benefited from it.

Of course, if the creative still involved seeing Luke, Han and Leia as old folks who buggered up the supposed happy ending of the original trilogy and then died then I don’t think that would have helped matters either.  But that’s a different issue.

I’m curious as to what TLJ says about anything because it blurs it with all the swerves, left, right, up, 180 degree turn here, 720 degree hairpin there, finished with a loop the loop.

A lot can be said about the flaws of the Prequels, but there’s a clear fall of civilisation line to it.  It’s the clean, tidy contrast to the OT’s grubby, used galaxy look.

For a sequel trilogy, the Q is how has the galaxy progressed from the Empire’s defeat? But it gets sidestepped for a reset.

(Being fair there has been some clever fixes for this, namely that the way the Empire came about inflicted very deep wounds.  It just about works.)

Ben wrote:

For a sequel trilogy, the Q is how has the galaxy progressed from the Empire’s defeat? But it gets sidestepped for a reset.

Yes, one of my main frustrations with TFA is that you get barely a glimpse of the post-Empire civilisation before the Starkiller laser effectively wipes it out.

Some of the bits and pieces in Mandalorian that have dealt with the new republic and how they go about things have been interesting.

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Uncle Retrospective, Ben

Ben wrote:

’m curious as to what TLJ says about anything because it blurs it with all the swerves, left, right, up, 180 degree turn here, 720 degree hairpin there, finished with a loop the loop.

Dave covered it quite well in the post that started off this whole conversation. Like, the movie is not subtle about its’ themes?

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Dave

Well, that’s a surprise, new Luke and Lando book covering their search for Exegol pre-TFA.

Out in June 2022

Dave wrote:

There’s more character growth in that trailer than both seasons of Mando.

Can’t wait for the fucking Gonk droid to save the day at a pivotal moment in the series finale.

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Todd

Is there anyone out there who manages to watch all of these shows from Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel and DC?  It must be a full-time job.

None of the SW ones are that long.  Ditto Marvel.

DC is a different story as they have done 20-odd episode series, with the eps 40-45mibs a time.

New Trek is inbetween the two doing a mix of short 8-ep and medium 13-ep series.

Ben wrote:

None of the SW ones are that long.  Ditto Marvel.

DC is a different story as they have done 20-odd episode series, with the eps 40-45mibs a time.

New Trek is inbetween the two doing a mix of short 8-ep and medium 13-ep series.

And for the most part, Disney+ doesn’t overlap their series. Usually when one ends, a new one starts up shortly afterward. It makes it a lot easier to watch their shows.

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Ben

saga wrote:

Is there anyone out there who manages to watch all of these shows from Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel and DC?  It must be a full-time job.

I don’t watch every one of those because I’m not interested anymore in the CW shit, and some of the Hulu Marvel stuff is also pretty shit, and I’m not watching EVERYTHING SW or ST related ’cause I’m not a fan, but to offset that I watch many many other shows, so it evens out (I actually watch a lot more than the entire SW, ST, Marvel & DC output tbh)…

All that to say, yes you can, and a lot more with a mere 1 free hour per day. Personally I have a ton of free time, so I do watch an obsecene amount of crap, but you don’t even need 1 hour a day to catch up on all of those shows you mentioned, specially the better and shorter ones.

I guess I’m just having a little moan about my lack of free time these days.  My TV viewing for the remainder of the year will extend as far as seeing out the Doctor Who serial, catching up on Shang-Chi when it arrives on Disney+ and maybe Hawkeye if it holds interest.

Now, if all this streaming nonsense was about in my student days then I would have been all-in on it rather than my flatmate and I buying random old movies on VHS for pennies to binge watch.

Yes, I am now an old man yelling at clouds. Thumbs-up.

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Rocket, Todd

I’ve come to terms with the fact that I cannot watch every series or film that seems interesting, unless I want to give up other pursuits like reading, listening to music, and exercising. So I pick and choose the ones that I think I will really enjoy, and accept that I can’t join the conversation about other things I’ve passed on.

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Todd, Dave

I’m the same. And the truth is that a lot of these TV shows aren’t really aimed at someone like me. Flash is a teen superhero show that my nephews and nieces like a lot, but I doubt I would get much out of it. And that’s fine. Same with a lot of the DC shows.

I also bailed on the Marvel Netflix stuff after a couple of series as (with some exceptions) it didn’t do much for me. Again, others liked it much more than I did.

This wealth of content is meant to cater to lots of different audiences, not just one type of viewer.

Both Patty Jenkins' and Rian Johnson's planned Star Wars projects have reportedly been shelved due to recurring “creative differences” with Lucasfilm. https://t.co/whIk9Aljnl pic.twitter.com/UpbSL6J85y

— IGN (@IGN) November 16, 2021

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Todd

Patty/Rian: We have exciting ideas for new, non-terrible Star Wars movies!

Disney Borg: Oh, you do, do you? Why don’t you step into our collective office…

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Todd, Uncle Retrospective

Damn, Jenkins is gonna feel pretty dumb after that whole video she did announcing her SW project if this falls through… =P

Oh well, back to mangle another Wonder Woman movie I guess…

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Todd

WB: Patty, wait, we’ve been going over the script again and, well… doesn’t Diana basically rape that guy?

Patty: Uh, I guess. I mean, whatever, right?

WB: Yeah, just checking. So what happens next?

Patty: Shiny things!

WB: Hooray!

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DavidM, Todd

Are LFL trying to compete with EA for who can axe the most SW projects?

‘Star Wars: Ahsoka’: Natasha Liu Bordizzo To Play Sabine Wren In Disney+ Series

https://deadline.com/2021/11/star-wars-ahsoka-natasha-liu-bordizzo-sabine-wren-disney-plus-rosario-dawson-1234877527/

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Rocket

Just as they did last year, SpeedyHen have got the big new year SW book in the post to me early – even earlier than last year!

Going to enjoy reading this one.

Star Wars: The High Republic: The Fallen Star

This is a good book.  Of the three hardbacks published by Del Rey, however, it is easily weakest and it is the weakest due to self-inflicted wounds.

Those self-inflicted are partly the sheer spoilage of its own plot but also an assumption of reader knowledge that might ot be so. Of the first, I cannot recall another book that so spoils its own story in advance of publication.  From the title alone, which has multiple meanings, it might be suspected that it is a cunning misdirection.  The actual book cover’s back quote adds to this. Then SW’ own Twitter feed threw out an alternate, special edition cover that blows all other meanings away and confirms that yes, exactly what will you think will happen in this book does happen.

Despite this Claudia Gray is very skilled at depicting horrible things happening to good beings, as evidenced by Bloodline.  So it proves here.  There are a good few deaths, no I’m not saying who as this book works so much better when you don’t know stuff.   It also effectively deepends the mystery unleashed at the end of The Rising Storm, but that also remains frustratingly vague and unresolved.

The other weakness is this: The first wave of High Republic products were very smart at enabling readers to pick and choose without adverse impact if a story was not looked at, the second wave went sharply in the other direction with entire major plot pieces in comics, for which trades were not released for.  It made for a more confusing experience.  This start of the third wave is going more in the direction established by the second and it means certain developments will vary greatly in their impact for the the reader.  They will still work, but only at a basic level, whereas the full picture gives the far greater effect.  Nor am I convinced there is sufficient signposting to easily get all the pieces – which is a shame.

Ultimately, what makes its work are its heroes.  Its villains are becoming weaker as the story goes on, sure, they’re petty, vicios, cruel and violent but they lack that fundamental factor that makes for a great villain.  All that the Nihil do here is done by sneak attacks, they are, to borrow a Klingon line, without honour. (Not that Klingons are that good at living up to their own claims.)  There is a strategy to how things play out, but the chances the Nihil have in an actual war with the Republic? Zero.  Asymmetrical activity is their only card.

There are some minor surprises here, but in the main this book is built around one single event and only that event in a way its predecessors were not.  If anything I’m looking forward more to the accompanying other age targeted books, as for those far less is known about and with the big, obvious event out of the way they are freed up to do more interesting stories.

Ben wrote:

Are LFL trying to compete with EA for who can axe the most SW projects?

Honestly, I can’t say I’m surprised, or even against cancelling all of that. I’d hope that shelving this is a sign they’re dealing with the mess they’ve made in the last movies and that they’re starting to streamline what’s coming next with their TV universe. Just let Filoni and Favreau take a bit of the wheel.

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Rocket

Mary Elizabeth Winstead Joins Rosario Dawson in ‘Ahsoka’ (Exclusive)

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Todd

She is a good look for playing Sabine Wren.

If there’s a flag that the Millennium Falcon should fly, it is the Welsh dragon:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/29/welsh-town-pembroke-dock-how-it-built-star-wars-millennium-falcon

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garjones, Rocket, DavidM, Todd, njerry

Sebastian Stan(The Winter Soldier) as a young Luke Skywalker…

Do you see the resemblance?

Al-x wrote:

Do you see the resemblance?

Absolutely. The resemblance is uncanny:

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Christian, Bruce, Todd

More like this:

https://www.thewrap.com/sebastian-stan-luke-skywalker-mandelorian/

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JRCarter

I’m not sure young Luke Skywalker is more likely to wear a tuxedo rather than tanga briefs. He’s from a desert planet after all.

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garjones, Todd

The only good thing about that Holiday Special:

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Todd

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Uncle Retrospective, Todd, njerry

That poster looks shit.

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Bruce, DavidM, Uncle Retrospective, Todd

I don’t like sand.

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DavidM, Todd

Obi-Wan Kenobi feels like an unwieldy title. Just call it “Obi-Wan”, it’s shorter, punchier.

I mean, people will still get who it’s about. Nobody’s going to say, “Is this about Obi-Wan Jones, the rugby player?” if you don’t use his full name.

DavidM wrote:

Obi-Wan Kenobi feels like an unwieldy title. Just call it “Obi-Wan”, it’s shorter, punchier.

I think just calling it Kenobi might work even better.

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DavidM

I’m just gonna call it The Mandalorian 2.75. Not gonna fool me again!

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Uncle Retrospective, Dave, Todd

DavidM wrote:

Just call it “Obi-Wan”, it’s shorter, punchier.

Obi-1

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Christian

Call it Ben.

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Christian

One thing that’s always bugged me. When Luke (too short for a stormtrooper) rescues Leia, he says, “I’m here with Ben Kenobi”. Leia jumps up and says, “Ben Kenobi? Where is he?”

She should say, “Who the drokk is Ben Kenobi? Didn’t Obi-Wan get my message?”

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Uncle Retrospective

Anonymous wrote:

DavidM wrote:

Just call it “Obi-Wan”, it’s shorter, punchier.

Obi-1

OB1

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njerry

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Todd, Dave

They could play Duel Of The Fates over anything and I’d be won over. But it actually does look pretty good.

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Todd

Gonna give it and the Cassian Andor show a shot, but I’m holding out little hope.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Gonna give it and the Cassian Andor show a shot, but I’m holding out little hope.

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Rocket, Uncle Retrospective, njerry, Todd, lorcan_nagle

IMO the stars of Rogue One were Felicity Jones, Alan Tudyk, and the blind Force Sensitive. Andor will end up like Boba without them.

Oh, I think Andor has a better chance of success than Fett.

Anyone here watched Narcos: Mexico?

Ben wrote:

Anyone here watched Narcos: Mexico?

Meh, why watch it when you can live it? =P

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garjones

The Kenobi trailer looks jolly exciting, but the whole thing kinda has the same problem for me as all of the sequel stuff – you know it’ll end badly. I mean, I thought that was great in Rogue One, but I don’t think they’ll actually want to go as dark in a Kenobi show. But if it’s all about hunting down Jedis, well, we know they’ll all be hunted down and killed except for Kenobi himself. Sure, he’ll manage to protect Luke and the series will try to sell that as his triumph, but again, that’s something we already know so it’ll be a bit of a tough sell, too.

Christian wrote:

The Kenobi trailer looks jolly exciting, but the whole thing kinda has the same problem for me as all of the sequel stuff – you know it’ll end badly.

I get that criticism, but I think a lot will depend on how they frame the story that the show wants to tell.

If the show mostly focuses on new story ideas and keeps the Empire/Vader stuff that we know about as more of a backdrop, then I think it’s perfectly possible to tell a satisfying story within that era.

I could foresee a story where these Jedi-hunters start sniffing around, Obi-Wan gets dragged off Tatooine and drawn into their orbit, he kicks their arses and then comes back home (and maybe has a couple of tangles with Vader/flashbacks with Anakin along the way).

That wouldn’t violate the timeline but would allow the show to tell a core story with some unpredictable aspects. Yes, we know that Kenobi isn’t going to kill Vader or bring down the Empire, but there’s still potential for new characters and storyline to be explored.

Dave wrote:

I could foresee a story where these Jedi-hunters start sniffing around, Obi-Wan gets dragged off Tatooine and drawn into their orbit, he kicks their arses and then comes back home (and maybe has a couple of tangles with Vader/flashbacks with Anakin along the way).

Yeah, that’d be pretty much what I’d expect, but if this all about fighting the Jedi Hunters… well, in the process of all this, he clearly fails to save any other Jedi but himself. Not exactly triumphant.

I think it’d be easy to tell a good story with this setting, what I’m wondering is how it can be anything but fucking depressing (which isn’t the vibe they’ve been going for in the TV shows).

You’ve all forgotten the far bigger SW release that is out far sooner.

New Lego SW!

With ANH Leia dragon punching a Stormtrooper on the Tantive IV.

Christian wrote:

Yeah, that’d be pretty much what I’d expect, but if this all about fighting the Jedi Hunters… well, in the process of all this, he clearly fails to save any other Jedi but himself. Not exactly triumphant.

Do we know that it has to work out like that? Presumably given that (as far as we know) most of the Jedi got wiped out by Order 66, any Jedi other than Kenobi appearing in this series are going to be newly introduced characters, and who knows what happens to them in the end? They could end up like Ahsoka Tano, hidden away during the events of the OT rather than dead. Helping get them to safety would be a pretty heroic outcome for Obi-Wan.

And Kenobi is still keeping an eye on Luke too. Maybe Luke comes under threat in this series and he’s able to defend him. Again, pretty heroic.

Christian wrote:

I think it’d be easy to tell a good story with this setting, what I’m wondering is how it can be anything but fucking depressing.

I think it really depends on how much you’re going to insist on being depressed by the fact that there are very few Jedi left in the universe.

The original Star Wars movie also ended with a status quo where the Empire still ruled the galaxy, and the only Jedi warrior we knew about just got killed by Vader, but it still managed to be a pretty triumphant and upbeat ending – so it’s perfectly possible to tell a non-depressing story within the post-prequels setting.

I guess my point with all this is that there are lots of ways I can imagine this going. And yes, I don’t doubt that it’s going to have bittersweet elements, especially with Anakin coming back. But there are still so many different stories you could tell and outcomes you could reach within this setting that I don’t think we can automatically assume it’s going to be a depressing series.

Dave wrote:

Do we know that it has to work out like that? Presumably given that (as far as we know) most of the Jedi got wiped out by Order 66, any Jedi other than Kenobi appearing in this series are going to be newly introduced characters, and who knows what happens to them in the end? They could end up like Ahsoka Tano, hidden away during the events of the OT rather than dead. Helping get them to safety would be a pretty heroic outcome for Obi-Wan.

Yeah, maybe they’ll go that way. Seems a bit silly to me to have more and more Jedi around at the time of the OT, but I suppose with Ahsoka around now, anything is possible.

And yup, I do expect his great triumph will be keeping Luke hidden, that just sounds a little hollow to me.

Dave wrote:

I think it really depends on how much you’re going to insist on being depressed by the fact that there are very few Jedi left in the universe.

Well, you know, in a series that’s all about fighting Jedi-hunters, it’s kind of depressing when they win.

This is just me being pessimistic though, I don’t really disagree with your stance. You can do any story in any setting and it can be great, if you’ve got a good enough team (especially writers). I just feel like it’ll be easy to misstep, with this one. We will see how it goes.

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Dave

Yeah, and I mean I don’t necessarily think you’ll be wrong – that era between the prequels is probably the biggest downer of the whole saga, when the Jedi are dead and scattered and there’s no obvious New Hope for the resistance. So it may well have a bit of a subdued vibe. We’ll see.

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Christian

Gotta love The Onion:

Disney Opens New Immersive ‘Star Wars’-Themed Gay Conversion Camp

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lorcan_nagle, Todd, Uncle Retrospective

Dave wrote:

the biggest downer of the whole saga, when the Jedi are dead and scattered and there’s no obvious New Hope for the resistance.

If you have no taste for animated fare, ignore the rest of this. But Star Wars Rebels was set during this period and was very enjoyable. It has been discussed here before but it has similarities to New Hope. Their pilot was a combo of Han/Leia, their muscle was a large scary beast although he was able to speak and be understandable, their droid was an irrepressible, headstrong, little psuedo deus ex machina, and they had a Mandalorian and powerful young Jedi noob.

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Ben

The animation arc that runs through The Clone Wars to Bad Batch to Rebels is quite a coup.  It does a lot of good stuff, some bad, some very surprising but it flows well.

Some will say its written for kids – yes, it is.  Doesn’t mean adults can’t enjoy it.

Plus, there’s a great Rebels easter egg in Rogue One.

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Rocket, Uncle Retrospective

Haven’t done one of these for a while:

Lego Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga – The Game Star Wars Didn’t Know it Needed

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Dave

That’s a great review, Ben. I’m really tempted to grab this now.

Strange as it sounds, I wasn’t writing it as a game review – that’d probably read a bit differently.

I find it interesting how close Kenobi is getting to A New Hope.  How Owen in ANH appears to know little about Loony Old Ben yet Owen in Kenobi is telling Obi Wan to stay away from Luke.  It’s too bad the original actor has passed away. I’d be interested in his take on Kenobi

Rocket wrote:

It’s too bad the original actor has passed away. I’d be interested in his take on Kenobi

Alec Guinness? He famously hated Star Wars, I doubt he would have anything like a “take” on the character.

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Todd

That looks by far the most interesting and promising… but at this point I know better… Still, I do hope it’ll be a good show, I always enjoy those =/

I was referring to the actor who played Owen: Phil Brown

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Trying to post a youtube link. The post was filtered or something and doesn’t show up. Trying to post it again and I get told “Duplicate reply detected”.

Still, fighting the board beats listening to Jim.

First season starts August 31st, and is twelve episodes, with another twelve-episode season ordered.

Mando won’t be back until Feb 2023: https://tvline.com/2022/05/26/the-mandalorian-season-3-release-date/

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Ben, njerry

Really liked the Andor trailer.

With two seasons of 12 episodes it’s also one of the more ambitious SW series.

Good news – Star Wars: Jedi: Survivor teaser trailer drops.

Bad news – Why has it suddenly become a thing for all the major hosting YouTube channels to NOT have subtitles available on new trailers?

The lack of it ruined this.

I was wondering, are there any good Hutts in the Star Wars universe? Or are they all evil?

I think if Star Wars was created today, with the taboo on fat shaming, we probably wouldn’t have Jabba. It could also be seen as bigotry to describe all members of a certain species are evil.

 

edit: come to think of it, LOTR has that same problem of course with the Orcs.

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DavidM

When it comes to Jabba, as with Yoda, I never used to think of them as a species because that’s not the way Alan Dean Foster described them in the novel adaptations. Yoda just shrunk further and further down with age. Similarly, Jabba’s look is a result of the life he’s led.

Still I wonder if people who are against fat shaming would have a problem with such a characterization. The implication seems to be that being fat is a personality defect.

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

edit: come to think of it, LOTR has that same problem of course with the Orcs.

Dungeons and Dragons just recently removed racial alignments – as in Orcs could only be evil (though they could be lawful, neutral or chaotic evil) and so on. Naturally a bunch of dickheads in the RPG community protested even though it would literally change nothing about their games.

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DavidM, Todd, Uncle Retrospective

It’s perhaps not as active at the film / TV level but in comics and books there has been moves to break the all aliens have one personality block.

Across the mediums Hera is a good example of this.  She starts off leading the gang in Rebels, fights at Scarif and later is a New Republic general.  The Ghost was also at Exegol.

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Uncle Retrospective

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

It could also be seen as bigotry to describe all members of a certain species are evil.

Well, both Star Trek and Star Wars never had a problem with describing a species as evil. Or, um as all being greedy, and accidentally looking kinda Jewish. Or crazy/wonky/childish and talking with a Caribbean accent (Okay, that’s only Star Wars).

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

edit: come to think of it, LOTR has that same problem of course with the Orcs.

Sure. But to be fair, the Orcs aren’t a natural species, they’re elves corrupted by Morgoth’s evil magics.

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Rocket, lorcan_nagle

Christian wrote:

Well, both Star Trek and Star Wars never had a problem with describing a species as evil. Or, um as all being greedy, and accidentally looking kinda Jewish. Or crazy/wonky/childish and talking with a Caribbean accent (Okay, that’s only Star Wars).

In fairness to Star Wars, Phantom Menace makes it clear that Japanese people are evil too.

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Christian, lorcan_nagle, Todd, Uncle Retrospective

Christian wrote:

Well, both Star Trek and Star Wars never had a problem with describing a species as evil.

I’m struggling to think of a species Star Wars described as 100% evil. I don’t think it ever happened in the original trilogy.

Jawas – the ones we saw were just businessmen. You might assume they were evil, but I think that’s a problem with businessmen rather than with Jawas

Sand People – we saw a couple that were violent car-jackers, but that doesn’t tar the entire species. (For that matter, we don’t know if Luke was trespassing on their land and they were justified in defending it.)

Cantina patrons – we are not told that any particular species on display is evil. A couple of individuals appear to be, but that’s not evidence of a species-wide defect.

Wookies – We only meet one, and he’s not evil.

Trash Compactor Monster – not evil, just hungry.

Wampa – not evil, just hungry.

Yoda – not evil.

Jabba – evil, but he’s the only one of his race we see. The Hutts who live over the way might be really nice.

Jabba’s various henchmen – ditto.

Admiral Akbar – not evil.

Ewoks – not evil.

Who am I missing?

Not a species per se but the Jedi are undoubtedly a shower of bastards.

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Andy, Christian, DavidM, Todd

DavidM wrote:

Jabba – evil, but he’s the only one of his race we see. The Hutts who live over the way might be really nice

Wellll if you look it up on the internets the Hutts in the extended universe are mostly described as “crime lords” and gangsters. It’s like looking up a wiki article on Italy and reading Italians are mafiosi.

 

I think there was one other Hutt mentioned in the movies, Gardulla, who was the slave owner who owned Anakin.

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

DavidM wrote:

Jabba – evil, but he’s the only one of his race we see. The Hutts who live over the way might be really nice

Wellll if you look it up on the internets the Hutts in the extended universe are mostly described as “crime lords” and gangsters. It’s like looking up a wiki article on Italy and reading Italians are mafiosi.

 

I think there was one other Hutt mentioned in the movies, Gardulla, who was the slave owner who owned Anakin.

In The Book of Boba Fett, Jabba’s cousins are evil.

This is all outside the original trilogy that David mentions though.

(Similarly, there’s that line in Phantom Menace that says “the Hutts are gangsters!” which suggests they’re all baddies.)

DavidM wrote:

Ewoks – not evil.

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Uncle Retrospective, DavidM, Dave

There have been ripped Hutts in SW.

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Arjan Dirkse

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

DavidM wrote:

Ewoks – not evil.

Ewoks – Hungry, not evil

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DavidM

I am being half serious here. I don’t like being fat as a shorthand for “this character is totally debauched and evil!” But it is pretty common. Maybe that is gonna change, I dunno. It is quite ingrained.

I’ve experienced this myself. I am obese (trying to lose a bit of weight but I am not quite succeeding tbqh). I often saw that as a character fault, as a weakness, and I saw myself as ugly. I talked about this with the therapist I see who made me do a switch in that attitude, to be a bit kinder to myself (and by extension kinder to other people who are fat.)

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Uncle Retrospective

Interestingly, the films don’t go on about Jabba being a fat bastard, just a bastard – which he pretty much is.  Nor are there any fat villains.

Trek? Doesn’t tend to do it.  Dune is the likely perp here with Harkonnen being what you’re describing Arjan.

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

DavidM wrote:

Ewoks – not evil.

Only trying to please their god. On that evidence, we can put a blanket  description of all humans as evil.

 

DavidM wrote:

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

DavidM wrote:

Ewoks – not evil.

Only trying to please their god. On that evidence, we can put a blanket  description of all humans as evil.

 

Or all religions are evil.

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DavidM

Todd wrote:

Or all religions are evil.

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Andy, Uncle Retrospective, DavidM, lorcan_nagle, Todd