Loki on Disney+ (SPOILER discussion)

Topic

Loki starts tomorrow: unusually for a Marvel series on Disney+, new episodes are premiering on Wednesdays rather than Fridays.

Discuss with spoilers for broadcast episodes here.

Replies

I’m really really really really looking forward to this.

So much so, I’m putting up watching it for a full two days so I can watch it with a fellow Marvel fan and old friend this weekend.

I have a feeling this is going to be the best of the current batch Marvel live action series.

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lorcan_nagle

Could very well be the best, but it still has the worst logo ever =P

Jon wrote:

Could very well be the best, but it still has the worst logo ever =P

I’m like, “One damn font! Just one damn font!”

Oh it’s not only the multiple fonts… that logo is a designer’s nightmare

Dave wrote:

unusually for a Marvel series on Disney+, new episodes are premiering on Wednesdays rather than Fridays.

I head some speculation this may be the norm going forward because Netflix always put their big releases out on Fridays and they want to differentiate and possibly not clash.

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lorcan_nagle, Dave

JRCarter wrote:

Jon wrote:

Could very well be the best, but it still has the worst logo ever =P

I’m like, “One damn font! Just one damn font!”

I quite like that logo actually. It reflects Loki’s slippery shifting nature nicely, as well as (presumably) the different realities that will feature in this series.

Was there a similar logo used in the comics or did I imagine it?

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Todd, Rocket, lorcan_nagle, Ben

That was a very exposition-heavy episode. I don’t know that we needed that many clips of old MCU films, though I guess not everyone remembers Thor: The Dark World. It could have been more concise though.

Hopefully they’ll get into the actual plot more next week, the teases we got of it were interesting.

Every time someone says “Time Keeper,” I think of Neil Campbell’s Comedy Bang Bang character, and that’s not going to change anytime soon.

Very happy to see Eugene Cordero, and in a billed role too.

Nice to see Gugu Mbatha-Raw, and I hope she gets more to do later on.

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lorcan_nagle

I thought it was a little bit slow. The direction was kind of languid, lingering on moments that should have been much snappier. And for a show about Loki, it should have been funnier – I only laughed once, and that was when the God of Mischief actually acted mischievously. I did like the twist, if you can call it that – it was suitably Rick & Morty. And I’m guessing we’ve already met at least two other versions of Loki this episode.

It looked great though – the retro-futuristic design of the TVA worked brilliantly and it was nicely shot.

I’m not really a fan of de-mystifying/deconstructing a character like this – it can kind of ruin what makes them so great in the first place. But since that’s what we’re doing…

B-minus. Must try harder next time.

 

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lorcan_nagle

Really enjoyed everything up to Loki and Mobius going into the theatre, and while the rest of the episode was decent, it was a massive mood whiplash from the whimsy of the first half, relied a lot on watching clips of Loki’s greatest hits, and like, if the point is to have a different incarnation of Loki that hasn’t gone through the events of the later movies why show him everything that happened to his main timeline version?

lorcan_nagle wrote:

if the point is to have a different incarnation of Loki that hasn’t gone through the events of the later movies why show him everything that happened to his main timeline version?

In order to bring him to the realisation that it’s pointless to go back to that timeline, and his alternatives are either death or helping the TVA.

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lorcan_nagle

I get it from a structural standpoint, but there are other ways to do it, using the clipshow felt like a path of least resistance instead of having Mobius break him down in some other more interesting way,

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paul f

I enjoyed it.

The very 70s design for the TVA worked well because it does make it look like hell.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

I thought it was ok but it took a lot of time to get to the point.

The premise revealed towards the end of the episode is decent enough but it’s not a great sign when even your first episode feels slow and padded like this. It feels like the writing really needed to sparkle in the lengthy conversation scene that was the centrepiece of the episode, but ultimately was a bit flat.

Also, it felt weirdly cheap, but that might just be the minimalist design and largely interior settings. Hopefully it can open out more in future.

The leads are good though and I liked some of the Gilliam-esque touches early on. There’s potential but I hope it gets moving soon.

(And I certainly hope we don’t have to sit through endless clips of MCU movies next time. I half expected Owen Wilson to show Loki his MCU blu-ray boxset.)

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lorcan_nagle

Also, did anyone else half-expect Wilson’s character to casually reveal that Coulson was alive all along and show Loki a few episodes of AoS?

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Todd, Martin Smith, lorcan_nagle

[Dave]

Also also: did everyone else get that weird fuzzy glitching effect regularly throughout the episode? It felt a bit too subtle to be a deliberate effect. I couldn’t tell whether it was intentional, whether Disney+ was glitching, they’d used faulty cameras to film the series or my TV was on the blink.

Edit: went back to it and the effect isn’t there any more, so I guess it was Disney+ struggling. Maybe a lot of people were doing what we did and watching it during their lunch break.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Dave.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

Dave wrote:

Also, did anyone else half-expect Wilson’s character to casually reveal that Coulson was alive all along and show Loki a few episodes of AoS?

sadly they decanonised the MCU from the greater Agents of SHIELDverse

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Rocket, Todd, Dave, Martin Smith

Strange ep.  It was OK but it stopped just as it got going.

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Dave

Dave wrote:

Also, did anyone else half-expect Wilson’s character to casually reveal that Coulson was alive all along and show Loki a few episodes of AoS

I actually was afraid they would… fortunately they didn’t.

I really enjoyed this one, slow pace and all… I don’t know why but I really enjoyed it. Kinda reminded me a bit of Legion, aesthetics-wise, which might be why I liked it so much.

Anyhow, yeah, I’d like to say this has a lot of potential but we should wait and see because it could easily go to crap depending on what they do next, but a strong start for sure. Oh and I’m very glad they’re doing longer episodes for this too.

Also, did they just basically handwaved Endgame’s dumbshit loose-ends just like that by erasing that timeline? Damn that’s both lazy and ballsy, but I agree with Loki, it’s actually the Avenger’s fault, not his… some double standard bullshit right there.

By the way, I don’t recall these time lords they show in this episode… their look ring a bell, but I’m not sure who they are, anyone knows where thye come from? They kinda look like Kang… Also, speaking of, it would seem they’re building up Kang as the next Thanos-level threat, and I’m all for it.

[Steve Sensible]

The TVA are from Walt Simonson’s run on Fantastic Four. He had their agents looking more like Judge Dredd though.

As for the Timekeepers, they originally showed up in an old Thor issue, and were then retconned as part of the TVA.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Steve Sensible.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Steve Sensible.

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Rocket, Todd, Bruce

Oh yeah timekeepers… not timelords… that’s why I couldn’t find any info =P

Right… I thought they had something to do with Kang… oh well, thanks for the info!

A bit early in the series for a clips compilation episode… Enjoyable enough and not entirely surprising that the first episode was mostly made up of setup.

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Dave, Martin Smith

Yeah, I think we – as genre fiction die-hards of a sort – are in a position to perhaps underestimate how much the casual viewer – who maybe watches the films as they come out and again occasionally if they catch them on TV or something – might need a refresher on Loki’s backstory, given he’s come straight from Avengers 1, which came out nearly a decade ago now, let alone given the potentially confusing aspects of him being out of time etc.

And I think it served its purpose of getting Loki back to roughly the place he was at around the end of Ragnarok. To Lorcan’s earlier comment, I don’t think the point was to have an earlier version of Loki free of later character development, I think that was just the best way to get hold of a Loki they could use for future stories without explicitly undoing his death in Infinity War.

I’m going to put this guess out there now but I will spoiler tag it just in case : the Time Keepers are dead and have been for a while, with the TVA just mindlessly carrying on without them. There’s presumably got to be some sort of multiverse around at the end of this series for Dr Strange 2, so I can’t see the TVA carrying on as they are past this series. Oh and I reckon the variant Loki they’re chasing has become the MCU version of Mephisto.

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[Steve Sensible]

Steve Sensible wrote:

The TVA are from Walt Simonson’s run on Fantastic Four. He had their agents looking more like Judge Dredd though.

As for the Timekeepers, they originally showed up in an old Thor issue, and were then retconned as part of the TVA.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Steve Sensible.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Steve Sensible.

This article explains a lot about the different comic book characters:

What Is the Marvel Time Variance Authority?

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My takeaway from ep 1 is for a organization dealing with Time Control, they seem to be in a hurry most of the time. Which is just fine to me

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lorcan_nagle

Never mind Mephisto, now I’m stubbornly routing for Death’s Head to be the real big bad. The clues are right there, yes?

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Ben, lorcan_nagle, Martin Smith, Uncle Retrospective

Well shit, that “I need a hero song” must’ve been on sale or something… third time in a week that I hear that… =/

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Dave

[Steve Sensible]

“Azaleas are half off” got a big laugh from me.

That took it’s time, but at last the series has got going – I really enjoyed the last 10 minutes.

EDIT: Also I love the music in this show. From the theremin in the title music, to the cello stabs as shit was going down at Roxxcart, it’s wonderfully weird and atmospheric.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Steve Sensible.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle, njerry

I really enjoyed that again, even the slow bits.

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lorcan_nagle

I enjoyed it but again thought it took its time a little bit to get to the point.

It works pretty well as a show though. The time travel aspect is fun and allows for a fair amount of variety, and the central plot is decent.

I think my favourite bit was Mobius getting irritated by what Loki was doing to his salad.

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Bruce, Uncle Retrospective, Todd, lorcan_nagle

I thought that was a major jump up from episode 1. Moved the plot forward, had fantastic character moments, looked great, good laughs.

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Uncle Retrospective, Todd, Dave

Jon wrote:

Well shit, that “I need a hero song” must’ve been on sale or something… third time in a week that I hear that… =/

Time for a Shrek 2 rewatch then.

It was something that stuck out for me too though. I bet they were cursing the He-Man and the GotG game trailers when they came out. Funny how what seems like a fun musical choice the first time feels incredibly unimaginative by the second and third.

At least Bonnie Tyler’s agent is doing alright out of it all.

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Todd

So, female Loki… is she just a female variant or is she the Enchantress? Three reasons she might be:

The spell she uses to control people is “enchantment.”

She has blonde hair – not a typical Loki trait.

She tells Loki she hates that name, and he should call her Randy (the name of the guy she’s enchanted.) Enchantress’ real name is Amora… Amora/amorous/randy?

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Todd, Martin Smith

Interesting theory, but come the fuck on Steve. USE YOUR BRIAN!

Steve Sensible wrote:

female Loki

female backwards is elamef. MEF

The finger she used to enchant people with was attached to her FIST

Loki has an O in it.

MEF-FIST-O

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garjones, Todd, Dave

Oh, apparently in the credits in foreign language versions she’s not called “The Variant”, she’s called “Sylvie,” i.e. Sylvie Lushton who was an alternative Enchantress from Young Avengers.

So yeah… called it!

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Todd

That would have been a nice twist there, Steve. Good thing you stopped us getting to discover it from the show when it wanted us to.

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Ben, Todd

Steve Sensible wrote:

So, female Loki… is she just a female variant or is she the Enchantress? Three reasons she might be:

The spell she uses to control people is “enchantment.”

She has blonde hair – not a typical Loki trait.

She tells Loki she hates that name, and he should call her Randy (the name of the guy she’s enchanted.) Enchantress’ real name is Amora… Amora/amorous/randy?

A bit like Agatha Harkness in Wandavision, I think this is one of those theories that has been doing the rounds since before the series aired. We’ll see how it plays out but I wouldn’t be surprised.

Martin Smith wrote:

That would have been a nice twist there, Steve. Good thing you stopped us getting to discover it from the show when it wanted us to.

I don’t think anything has been spoiled here that the show hasn’t shown us itself.

Like always with these spoiler discussion threads, there will be a fair amount of speculation as to where things are headed and people analysing the clues closely.

Sometimes that leads you to Agatha Harkness, sometimes to Mephisto and the Fantastic Four.

Martin Smith wrote:

That would have been a nice twist there, Steve. Good thing you stopped us getting to discover it from the show when it wanted us to.

How is it a twist? It doesn’t make much of a difference who it is, does it? Also I figured it out from the 3 very obvious clues in this episode – she literally uses “enchantment!”

‘Loki’ Launch A Home Run For Disney+; Marvel’s Kevin Feige “Still Learning” Streaming Success Metrics

The most intriguing theory I’ve come across is that the TVA is actually the random city inside the Quantum Realm glimpsed in Ant-Man & The Wasp. Time moves differently there, so they’re not really from the future or the past.

Anyway, more of Loki and Mobius please. They’ve elevated their buddy cop game way above what Bucky and Sam managed in their show.

The final episode better have Mobius on a jet ski…

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Uncle Retrospective, Todd

For me, Loki has been fun. Typical MCU fair which I find enjoyable. I love the chemistry between Hiddleston and Wilson. The scoring during the TVA scenes at times reminds me of Blade Runner.

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garjones

Think I’ve worked out what’s off about this, it’s the way the eps end. Both previous series felt better at packaging the content into weekly chunks where there was a ‘to be continued’ aspect, but it wasn’t as abrupt or overt as Loki’s have been for me.

Yeah, Loki definitely has a “six-hour movie” Netflix-style feel in the episodes so far. I’m enjoying it, hopefully the rest of the episodes are more distinct.

[Steve Sensible]

I think my biggest disappointment with it so far is how passive Loki has been. I think I’d envisioned a series where Loki was in control, causing mayhem across various timelines with the TVA in pursuit, whereas instead things like the DB Cooper thing have just been little throwaway moments, and the bulk of the show has been him and/or Agent Mobius sitting around talking. “Talky talky…”

It just hasn’t been nearly as much fun as it should have been. Hopefully now they’ve got the set-up out of the way, things will pick up.

 

EDIT: Here’s a nice article breaking down the timelines that scrolled up on Judge Renslayer’s screen when the timebombs were triggered. They could all be nothing more than easter eggs, but they could also turn out to be spoilery, so click at your peril!

Also, I’ve only just realised that Judge Ravonna Renslayer is the Ravonna who in some timelines becomes Kang’s bride.

 

 

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Steve Sensible.

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Rocket

Yeah, the talkiness feels like it’s out of budget necessity to me. I don’t mind it when it works – Hiddleston and Wilson have good chemistry – but it feels a little too oriented towards that at times.

It feels a little bit like Doctor Who, with the Doctor being dropped into some new weirdness and just going along with whatever is happening for shits and giggles. Quite a contrast from Wanda coming to terms with her familial losses or Sam trying to wrap his head around the racial aspects of Captain America. I’m hoping they lean into the curve and make things at batshit crazy as they can in the remaining episodes.

saga wrote:

It feels a little bit like Doctor Who, with the Doctor being dropped into some new weirdness and just going along with whatever is happening for shits and giggles.

I got a very Doctor Who feel from the Pompeii scene.

https://www.zavvi.com/merch-memorabilia/marvel-s-loki-and-sylvie-helmet-replica-set-zavvi-uk-and-eu-exclusive/12966406.html

[Steve Sensible]

Getting kind of frustrated with this show now – more pointless talk bookended by some pointless fighting.

Why isn’t there any urgency about the sacred timeline being bombed? Why were they on the train to the Ark if Sylvie knew the Ark was going to be destroyed? Why didn’t Loki use his powers (that can apparently hold giant pieces of falling rubble in the air) to get them to the Ark quicker? Why hasn’t Loki asked what Sylvie’s plan is? I’d sure like to know!

On the plus-side, the show sounds and looks great – I assume they’re using the Unreal volume, same as The Mandalorian. The integration works well – most of the time.

Also, I keep forgetting this show drops on Wednesdays…

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Steve Sensible.

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Uncle Retrospective, lorcan_nagle

[paul f]

Steve Sensible wrote:

On the plus-side, the show sounds and looks great – I assume they’re using the Unreal volume, same as The Mandalorian. The integration works well – most of the time.

No, Loki films in Atlanta on regular sets/greenscreen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki_(TV_series)#Filming

The Atlanta Marriott Marquis portrayed the Time Variance Authority’s headquarters. On the TVA set, Arkapaw used working frosted incandescent ceiling lights as the set’s key lights. Other Georgia locations used for filming included a quarry in northern Georgia that became a mining town and a vacant discount store that became the futuristic superstore, Roxxcart.

The show definitely still feels like it’s only getting started, halfway through. I was hoping for more of a progression this week, rather than one long (enjoyable) conversation.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by paul f.

Gotta agree here. The dialogue and relationship building between Loki and Sylvie were great, but the framing device, while very pretty just fell flat and destroyed all the momentum last week built up.

Loki brings the trickster’s bisexual legacy to the MCU

https://www.polygon.com/tv/22546770/loki-bi-episode-3-lgtbq-marvel-characters

This week was pretty boring and all felt a bit irrelevant – like a sidequest to the main story of the series, and one that dragged on far too long and didn’t even resolve itself by the end. What was the point of any of it?

I wouldn’t have minded so much if there was better chemistry between the leads, but it just wasn’t there. I kept thinking how much more fun this would have been with Loki paired with Mobius instead.

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lorcan_nagle

This was basically a couple having a shit night out on holiday because their phone ran out of battery and they had nowhere to charge it. There are cricket scores to check, dammit!

Wouldn’t be at all surprised if it turns out that Sylvie had Loki enchanted and the whole escapade was just an illusion to get him to open up about something. Otherwise I’m not sure how Loki’s powers extend to reversing falling buildings back into the sky.

The big reveal about the TVA people all being variants was far from a surprise. The place is huge, though, which indicates there are a hell of a lot of variants. Whoever is in charge of it must be petrified of the so-called Sacred Timeline collapsing, but why?

Loki being bi was no big surprise either. Really, I was more intrigued by the idea of Loki and Sylvie hooking up. What better partner for Loki than Loki? Would it be considered masturbation?

Hoping the next episode is significantly less purple.

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Rocket, Dave

Steve Sensible wrote:

Why were they on the train to the Ark if Sylvie knew the Ark was going to be destroyed?

They were going to hijack the train and steal its power before it got to the Ark, no?

Andrew wrote:

They were going to hijack the train and steal its power before it got to the Ark, no?

No, it was the Ark itself that Sylvie thought would have a sufficient power-source. Which again, calls into question what exactly the plan was since she apparently knew it was going to get destroyed.

Presumably it was to leech the power before it got destroyed, and they would have made it in time if they weren’t thrown off the train?

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garjones, Todd, Andrew

Yep.

And that was the most well-behaved queuing for a train that I have ever seen, with or without the imminent destruction of the world added to the situation.

The moon collapsing into the planet looked was very reminiscent of the planetary incursions from the Secret Wars comic, which of course revolved around not getting away with a multiverse.

I assumed from the talk about the ark that they were going to turn out to be the reason why it didn’t escape – that their activities were going to eventually doom all these people to save themselves. And that’s why the TVA weren’t after them or trying to stop them – because their misadventure is part of the sacred timeline.

I assumed the TVA weren’t showing up because this was another apocalypse and they weren’t monitoring it? I think Sylvie said it was an apocalypse at the start of the episode?

I think so. Granted, the TVA is now aware of her hiding out in apocalypses so they are likely monitoring them now. I suppose there are just so many of them that they can’t necessarily find where she is that easily. When they did find her it was only due to Loki’s deliciously preposterous detective work about a candy bar.

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lorcan_nagle

Yeah, I’m pretty much where most everybody else is: enjoying it, but it’s not quite as good as I’d wish it to be.

Loved the Kafkaesque/Gillianesque elements of the first episode, but there really was too much exposition, and it was weirdly slow. Should’ve been far snappier.
Liked the second episode a lot, with things moving at a nice pace. But while Hiddleston and Wilson are great together, their dialogue isn’t quite as good as it needs to be. People scoff at Whedon’s little tricks, but it’s actually not all that easy to writer smart, fast dialogue.
Third episode definitely had a side-quest feel to it, and I was also reminded of Doctor Who. Which I actually kinda liked, but it did feel weird to have this distraction while the main story had been building up steam. Feels a little like they just needed some more episodes before getting back to it and all of this is just stuffin. Sylvie’s great on paper, but I’m with Dave in feeling that the chemistry between the two really isn’t quite there. And again, dialogue just not quite as smart and snappy as it needs to be.

But I did enjoy this episode, and the series up to this point. And I am still intrigued to find out what’s happened to the Timekeepers – because yeah, this is clearly a kind of Wizard of Oz situation and Renslayer’s making up shit as she goes along – and what Sylvie’s plan is (I assume: blow up the TVA and get back the multiverse, which will happen in the end and set up Strange 2).
I figure we will figure out that the TVA is actually truly the bad guys (hey, they’re basically committing mass murder on a Thanos level every time they destroy a timeline) and even Mobius will turn against them in the end. Also, I bet there’s a jetski in his past when he remembers it.

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lorcan_nagle, Dave

Wife mentioned this most recent episode (3) reminded her of 90s “point and click” PC games like Monkey Island, and for that she really enjoyed it.

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lorcan_nagle

Andrew wrote:

Wife mentioned this most recent episode (3) reminded her of 90s “point and click” PC games like Monkey Island, and for that she really enjoyed it.

Hah! That’s a funny comparison. And quite apt really.

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Andrew

Christian wrote:

Third episode definitely had a side-quest feel to it

IMO, if Marvel is going to do the whole 6 ep series thing, there shouldn’t be side quests or filler eps. Whoever Sylvie is, again IMO, she is a crap Loki. For someone whose main trick is magically charming people, she does not have a charming persona.

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Todd, Dave

Great episode. Nothing too surprising in terms of the overall series, though I’m surprised it all happened at once, with two episodes left. Glad to see Gugu Mbatha-Raw finally get stuff to do. That mid-credits scene was great too.

Nice to see Jaimie Alexander briefly. She was uncredited, which is odd.

The throne room fight was very Last Jedi, which is funny as they cast Young Rey as Young Sylvie.

Super-excited for the next two episodes.

Not sure if we need them to replicate Star Trek on the every odd-numbered episode is bad thing, but yeah, this week was a return to the better stuff. Hopefully they’ll keep the momentum going this time?

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Rocket

Yeah, this was decent. Feels like the story is finally going somewhere. And the post-credits scene was fun.

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lorcan_nagle

I’m kinda surprised by the dislike of episode 3… I didn’t think it was bad. I do wonder if they’ll re-integrate Loki to the MCU after this or if Hiddleston is done.

I don’t think we’ll see him in any movies moving forward, but they’re already working on a second season of Loki.

I doubt Hiddleston is in Thor: Love & Thunder, as he was filming an Apple TV show in the UK at the same time as that was being filmed in Australia.

Nice payoff to the “do a lot of people not know that they are robots” line from the first episode. Expected, but nice. I couldn’t make out anything the Time Keepers said, though. Terrible sound mixing there.

Hoping we get a bunch of Owen Wilson variants to go with all those Lokis. Maybe one could be a red racing car?

Not sure I understand the Sylvie backstory. She was born a girl while Loki is meant to be a boy per the Sacred Timeline, yet the TVA waited ten years or so to come for her?

What happened to B-15 in the fight scene at the end? Did she get hit with the rhythm stick of doom?

The TVA is totally being run by a Loki, right?

paul f wrote:

I don’t think we’ll see him in any movies moving forward, but they’re already working on a second season of Loki.

Oh… weird. Oh well…

saga wrote:

The TVA is totally being run by a Loki, right?

I think it’s the main judge chick, I’m forgetting her name right now, but it always makes me think of Kang for some reason… wait, Ravona… wasn’t Ravona a female Kang or someone connected to Kang? I don’t think I have that comicbook anymore, but I remember one comicbook with USAgent, War Machine and Thunderstrike in a temporal adventure involving Kang and I’m pretty sure there was a Ravona somewhere in there… Funnily enough those three are kind of variants for Cap, IM & Thor… sooo… yeah =P

Anyhow, her name always makes me think of Kang for some reason, so I’m going with my gut on that one.

saga wrote:

I couldn’t make out anything the Time Keepers said, though. Terrible sound mixing there.

Yeah that was terrible. I get trying to give them a distinctive sound but you just couldn’t understand anything. I kept having flashbacks to Boss Nass.

Subtitles, my dudes… subtitles. I watch everything with english subs, always.

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Ben

Indeed, subs are always useful.

Dave wrote:

And the post-credits scene was fun.

Jon wrote:

I think it’s the main judge chick, I’m forgetting her name right now, but it always makes me think of Kang for some reason… wait, Ravona… wasn’t Ravona a female Kang or someone connected to Kang? I don’t think I have that comicbook anymore, but I remember one comicbook with USAgent, War Machine and Thunderstrike in a temporal adventure involving Kang and I’m pretty sure there was a Ravona somewhere in there… Funnily enough those three are kind of variants for Cap, IM & Thor… sooo… yeah =P

Anyhow, her name always makes me think of Kang for some reason, so I’m going with my gut on that one.

Info about Ravonna

Avengers: The Terminatrix Objective

Oh yeah, that’s the one, but I read it in french like 25 years ago… so I didn’t even remember the title =P

Well there you go… seems to be that character.

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Todd

saga wrote:

Not sure I understand the Sylvie backstory. She was born a girl while Loki is meant to be a boy per the Sacred Timeline, yet the TVA waited ten years or so to come for her?

I’m trying not to think about it too much as it might not make sense. I thought the deviations from the sacred timeline only came about via time travel…

The episode was fine – I don’t think any have been bad or great, but my pals on the The Watch podcast say that Loki episode 4 is the best episode of a Marvel TV show so far, for what it’s worth.

Andrew wrote:

I’m trying not to think about it too much as it might not make sense. I thought the deviations from the sacred timeline only came about via time travel…

Didn’t they say some previous unspecified event had caused chaos in the timeline and resulted in her being born a girl instead of a boy?

Can’t quite tell what it is, but this just isn’t working that well for me.  It’s not limited to Loki either, Marvel don’t seem to be as good on TV as they are on cinema.

It’s included in the sub, so might as well watch it but I’ve found Bad Batch to be more entertaining.

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Rocket, Dave

Ben wrote:

Can’t quite tell what it is, but this just isn’t working that well for me.  It’s not limited to Loki either, Marvel don’t seem to be as good on TV as they are on cinema.

I think they have struggled to sustain the energy and breeziness of the movies in the transition to multiple episodes over several weeks.

I think the MCU style works best as a quick burst of fun where you don’t stop and think about it too hard, you just sit back and enjoy a couple of hours of superhero action and jokes.

But in TV series form, with single padded-out stories parceled out over multiple weeks, they’ve suffered.

I think something more Mandalorian-style would suit Marvel well. Single episode self-contained quick and fun plots that also tie in to a larger overarching narrative.

But giving us half an hour of a single padded story once a week is not working in the same way as the movies.

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Ben

Completely agree with you here.

Dave wrote:

I think something more Mandalorian-style would suit Marvel well. Single episode self-contained quick and fun plots that also tie in to a larger overarching narrative.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they change their approach to TV series to fit something like what you’ve said here. I’m very much looking forward to the What If series, hoping it would hold such an episodic structure.

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Dave

Wandavision was like the Mandalorian…

Jon wrote:

Wandavision was like the Mandalorian…

No, it was much more of an overarching story than that I think.

I kept falling asleep when trying to make it through the Mandalorian so I hope not.

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lorcan_nagle

saga wrote:

I kept falling asleep when trying to make it through the Mandalorian so I hope not.

No, you’re thinking of Magnolia.

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Christian, njerry, Todd

I think the TV series are suffering from where the movies have been going:

Everything has to tie into each other and lead into the next major event.

It’s rare that a movie or TV series gets to stand on its own without in some way “passing the baton” to the next project. WandaVision leads into the next Dr. Strange movie and introduced a character for the upcoming Captain Marvel movie. Falcon and the Winter Soldier leads into Captain America 4. Loki is laying foundation for Kang and the Multiverse, which also ties into Dr. Strange and Spider-Man. Et cetera, ad infinitum. Add to the fact that the TV projects are following up threads from the movies. Projects really don’t get to stand on their own. They have to carry some load from a prior project while at the same time passing a different load forward to another project.

I think a bit of the comics’ magic has been lost in the MCU. In the comics, Captain America could appear in a Spider-Man book and they’d fight the Scorpion. Cap’s appearance didn’t portend some upcoming event in his book or the Avengers or what have you. The writer simply wanted to have Spidey and Cap team up for a fun adventure. That was it. Nothing more.

But with the MCU and the billions of dollars riding on the shared universe, EVERYTHING HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING!!! Everything has to lead to something else and tie together somehow. There really aren’t stand-alone projects. Because everything has to connect, it all feels like you are getting a piece to a puzzle and not an individual picture.

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Rocket, njerry, lorcan_nagle, Ben

Dave wrote:

No, you’re thinking of Magnolia.

Anonymous wrote:

I wouldn’t be surprised if they change their approach to TV series to fit something like what you’ve said here

Maybe Moon Knight will borrow from the Ellis run from 7 years ago.

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Todd

The smoke monster bits weren’t great, and it was a bit too drawn out, but I liked a lot of the talky bits, and the Easter Eggs were brilliant.

Thanoscopter!

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Dave, Todd, lorcan_nagle

There was a Polybius machine in the hideout too, which was just a perfect little touch.

Also enjoyed the episode, loved the bait and switch with the time void spaceship bit, the character work was fantastic and everything moved forward at the same time unlike episode 3. The action remains a bit eeeeeh, but I find that more forgivable.

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Todd

[Jon]

Tons of easter eggs this episode… Youtubers are gonna be happy like pigs in shit this week with all their breakdowns and easter egg videos…

The Thanos-copter was offensive though, but I’m glad that Thanos got pruned =P

Yeah the smoke monster was a bit bleh, but for once, a faithful adaptation I guess, because once again my brain sparked, and I’m pretty sure Alioth also comes from that same Terminatrix Objective comicbook, and it was indeed a cloudy thing at the end of time… Damn, they ARE taking quite a few bits from that story… I kinda wish we would’ve gotten a small cameo from an USAgent/Thunderstrike/Warmachine team too.

So anyways, can we assume Kang is the man behind the curtain? Or Immortus or one of his other aliases… it wouldn’t be a terrible idea for them to build him up as the next Thanos type of big-baddie, plus we know he’s appearing in an upcoming movie anyhow.

Also, old man Loki = MVP

Edit: yup, quick google search confirmed my hunch:

 

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Jon.

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Rocket, Todd

[Al-x]

Watching 4 and 5 now…

Man, these Time Variant People are a slow as shit… Very slow reflexes as Loki and that lady are so much faster. For a bunch of important troopers protecting the time line, they get their ass kicked. Way too slow….

Also…

Someone in Marvel production has been watching Demolition Man.

Edit: Just finished 5… pretty entertaining, going from campy to dramatic to epic.

The Land of the Lost…

Until next week.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Al-x.

Lots of Kang related teases but if Wandavision taught me nothing else (and it didn’t) it’s that Marvel won’t debut a major new villain in a TV show. Now that they’ve finally caught a glimpse of the proverbial fireworks factory I suspect that some evil variant of Mobius is behind it all. Ravonna never did reveal who her other favourite agent was, did she?

Jon wrote:

old man Loki = MVP

Agree 100%

Not really feeling the Lolvie connection. The bunker scenes was some of the best of the series. I excuse the action because these are schemers not fighters. I like the inclusion of Mobius in the Void gang. Loved the execution of “let’s sneak around back it is busy with that ship” plan. didn’t even get more than a couple of steps.

 

 

“I think we are stronger than we realize.”

Nice quote.

saga wrote:

Lots of Kang related teases but if Wandavision taught me nothing else (and it didn’t) it’s that Marvel won’t debut a major new villain in a TV show.

But then again the plan is to debut him in Ant-man 3 right?? Maybe it wouldn’t so bad to debut him here after all… =P

FWIW, I don’t think they’ll show him or even the actor, but like a HUGE hint of him, like a statue or something really obvious without necessarily using the actor… but who knows…

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Todd

Jon wrote:

Yeah the smoke monster was a bit bleh, but for once, a faithful adaptation I guess, because once again my brain sparked, and I’m pretty sure Alioth also comes from that same Terminatrix Objective comicbook, and it was indeed a cloudy thing at the end of time… Damn, they ARE taking quite a few bits from that story

That’s something I will give Marvel big credit for on their TV series and movies: they go for the deep and obscure cuts. Alioth first appears in Avengers: The Terminatrix Objective which came out in 1993 (28 years ago!). Relative to the time, I don’t think it was a huge seller. I wouldn’t be surprised if the back issue prices shoot up because of the TV series.