Black Widow Discussion (SPOILERS!)

Topic

Out in cinemas here Wednesday, or wait until Friday and it’ll be on Disney+ for an extra $30.

Replies

Black Widow Began as a Sexist Stereotype. More Than a Decade Later, Scarlett Johansson Is Reclaiming Her Story

Get this:

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/black_widow/blade-star-stephen-dorff-trashes-black-widow-and-says-hes-embarrassed-for-scarlett-johansson-a186163?fbclid=IwAR153dTYP_1LEJKBAalQKSWrAFW9Kwgd6wcNpMGoNWtrKpemvRdFrB0fRkM#gs.885b.52e0qg

Al-x wrote:

Get this:

We’re already talking about this on the Marvel Movies thread

Let's ride 🏍️ Check out the third in a series of posters inspired by Marvel Studios' #BlackWidow. Art by @courtneyamartin. Tickets and pre-orders available now. Experience it July 9. https://t.co/yX8cRwNmkX pic.twitter.com/UndeyfOG27

— Marvel Studios (@MarvelStudios) June 30, 2021

I’ve missed Marvel movies. Good to be back.

I enjoyed this a lot, especially everything with Pugh and Harbour. The action was better than average, and I laughed a bunch. The ending was, as is typical for the MCU, too explosive and effects-y. Ray Winston is a fine villain, even when he’s barely in the movie until the last thirty minutes.

The movie has a lot of nods to other spy franchises, like Bond and Mission: Impossible, but one thing that separates it from those movies, and most spy movies, is that those usually have incredibly convoluted, hard-to-follow plots. Black Widow, in contrast, does not have a plot. Natasha finds out The Red Room is still active, and decides to take it down. She does, the end. I’m not upset about this, as it allows them to focus more on the family dynamics without getting bogged down.

The way it was tied into the MCU was very odd, and didn’t work for me at all. It’s set at a very specific point in continuity, but that moment was so long ago. I’ve no idea why they didn’t make this movie back in 2016, especially as it feels like they did make it back then and it’s been on a shelf for five years. William Hurt’s presence in the movie was very odd too, given how little he has to do. It feels like there was a version with more of him, but they probably should have made a version with even less of him.

There’s nothing in the movie that acknowledges that this is supposed to be the final appearance of the main character. It feels like it should be more of a definitive statement on the character than we get, rather than the setup for a series of movies that are presumably never going to happen. It’s very much grounded in the post-Civil War point in the timeline, again as if this movie was made back then and just delayed.

So, given the post-credits scene, is Pugh going to be in the Hawkeye series? I’d be okay with that. I’m glad this wasn’t the first time we saw Val. I like Julia Louis-Dreyfus, but the character isn’t clicking for me yet.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

I liked that overall. ScarJo was a better lead than I feared. Yelena was a lot of fun (though Pugh falls into the same pitfall a lot of Western actors do of only being able to do a Russian accent that sounds bored). Playing the Red Guardian for laughs was a good choice, as it really lifted the movie. Taskmaster… worked in the context of the movie, but it’s a poor adaptation of the character. I really liked the opening title sequence too. Doing a slowed down version of a song to be dystopic is a bit of a cliche now, but it was really well married with the montage of brain-washing. The actress playing young Natasha was impressive too.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

Martin Smith wrote:

The actress playing young Natasha was impressive too.

The daughter of another actress known for wearing tight catsuits in action movies, Milla Jovovich (with Paul W.S. Anderson).

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Todd

Oh, that’s interesting. I watched a documentary about child actors a few months ago in which Milla Jovovich talked about her experiences being one (I hadn’t realised she was). I’m a little surprised she’s let her daughter become one after that.

First time I’ve seen an MCU movie on opening day for a long, long time. I’m still enjoying this whole “not having to go to a cinema full of people” thing.

Even so, I’d be quite happy if people figured out how to make these things shorter. Not entirely sure why this needed to be 2 1/4 hours long. They could have easily cut out half of the increasingly daft sequences in which Natasha cheats death, the whole Norway detour, hell, even Taskmaster Stig didn’t really add anything (other than the baffling choice to want us to root for Natasha when she willingly had an innocent little girl blown up).

I think the movie peaked in the opening sequence, which felt like it set up a more interesting film that we never got to see. Still, Sheriff Hopper made the faux-family sitcom middle portion entertaining and Ray Winstone was a compelling presence for the final act – prolonged as it was.

I guess that this was meant to be Valentina’s first appearance but it seems to make more sense coming after the Falcon & Winter Soldier, which at least explained a little bit more about her. She may as well have shown Yelena the Disney+ app on her tablet as they begin the hard sell on the Hawkeye show.

Slightly disappointed that Yelena did go for a pet dog in the end rather than one of those door-opening pigs.

Seriously, what the hell was with the pigs?

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

Yeah the first half(ish) is really better… then it all goes tits up in the most spectacularly bland and repetitive MCU fashion.

And wow, they really wasted Task Master huh? They weren’t kidding. Turned him straight into another boring “dark reflection of the hero” lame uninspired forgettable Marvel villain (TM)… I mean, the minute I saw that costume I had the feeling it was gonne be shit, so yeah…

On the bright side, seems the mouse found their perfect ScarJo replacement, and to be honest, yeah Florence Pew was the stand out character for sure… I mean, I would’ve loved to love the Red Guardian, but surprise surprise they turned him into comedic relief zzzzzzzzzzzzz… way too waste a very good cast too, btw.

On the down side, they really did Scarlett dirty with this bland forgettable movie. Ah well, I hope she got a nice juicy paycheck at least.

Oh well… on to the next boring ass movie I suppose… what’s next anyways? Inhumans right? Oh boy…

Edit: Forgot to say, yeah even the CGI was bad… that actually surprised me quite a bit given how fuckin’ long this movie took to be released… they could’ve at least made that better.

Shang Chi in September, Eternals in November and Spider-Man in December.

Plus What If in August, then Hawkeye and Marvel at some point later in the year.

Busy times.

Damn, I forgot about Shang Chi… that doesn’t bode well =P

I have to say, I’ve been enjoying the TV shows a lot more than the last however many movies, but I’m absolutely not interested in that What If thing… Hawkeye though? Oh yeah, I’m there baby!

Marvel’s ‘Black Widow’ Movie Is One Last Insult to Natasha Romanoff

https://www.thedailybeast.com/marvels-black-widow-movie-is-one-last-insult-to-natasha-romanoff?ref=home

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Al-x

So…

Is it worth paying an extra $30 to watch it now on Disney+, or should I wait until Oct. 6 when it will be a regular movie on that streaming service?

In other words… Is it that good?

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lorcan_nagle

Well, that was incredibly stupid, but gloriously so. Every plot element was bonkers, the sentimentality over the top – especially the montage of AMERICA when they’re escaping to Cuba at the start, full to the brim of stupid stereotypes and Ray Winstone’s accent. But I was telling someone about the late-2000s Universal Soldier sequels a couple of days ago, which were also stupid but enjoyable the same way this is. The action is well-executed so it’s never boring, The stupid shit feels earnest rather than mean-spirited like, say Transformers so you can laugh at it in a good-natured way, and I won’t be sad if Florence Pugh comes back as Yelena’s Black Widow in the future.

saga wrote:

Seriously, what the hell was with the pigs?

Russians are pig farmers! It’s funny, allegedly!

Al-x wrote:

So…

Is it worth paying an extra $30 to watch it now on Disney+, or should I wait until Oct. 6 when it will be a regular movie on that streaming service?

In other words… Is it that good?

While I enjoyed it, I wouldn’t spend $30 on it.

It was fun and I’m glad I saw it but I doubt I’d watch it again. I’d give it a C+/B-.

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lorcan_nagle, Al-x

Al-x wrote:

Is it worth paying an extra $30 to watch it now on Disney+

No.

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Al-x, Todd

I really enjoyed this. Yeah the main plot is pretty basic but the weird family dynamic, especially between Johansson and Pugh, really kept me engaged.

Florence Pugh is great as always and kind of steals the show. Her excitement at her vest and it’s many pockets was charming and brought a smile to my face. I’m looking forward to seeing more of her in the Hawkeye series and hopefully a Black Widow 2.

There is an overwhelming feeling that this film is just too late though. We’re 5 years on from Civil War and 2 years on from her death in Endgame. I think it’ll work well watching it between Civil War an Infinity War. And retconning her wearing Yelena’s vest in Infinity War is a nice touch. But its just weird to have this coming out now and being so disconnected.

It definitely feel like a mid tier MCU outing, but I had fun with it.

 

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Todd

Yeah, it is a Phase 3 movie for all intents and purposes (other than the post credits scene).

The bit with the vest was charming. Funny how Natasha, one of the most famous faces in the world as an Avenger, is on the run and yet hanging out in a convenience store having a loud conversation about being a trained killer.

Ian Smith wrote:

There is an overwhelming feeling that this film is just too late though. We’re 5 years on from Civil War and 2 years on from her death in Endgame. I think it’ll work well watching it between Civil War an Infinity War. And retconning her wearing Yelena’s vest in Infinity War is a nice touch. But its just weird to have this coming out now and being so disconnected.

Let’s be real honest. A BW movie should have come out about 10 years ago. Ike Perlmutter fucked that up with his “women can’t lead a movie” bullshit. ScarJo should have had three BW films by now, along with numerous other appearances in other movies, and this should have been Pugh’s (or whichever actress they got in that alternate timeline) first solo outing with her taking over the mantle.

It’s taken far too long for us to get a BW movie, and it’s essentially ScarJo’s swan song as the character.

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lorcan_nagle

Yeah they just fucked this one up… I’m not even sure it’s fait to just blame Perlmutter, because Feige’s been calling the shots for a while… and honestly, they’re not doing themselves any favours by doing these super mediocre female-led movies… they should really give it a lot more effort if only for that reason… this one wasn’t quite as bad as Captain Woodplank, but yeah, it wasn’t a 180 desgree turn either.

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Todd

So thinking about Elaine in the post-credits. She now has a Black Widow and a knock-off Captain America on her books. Abomination is apparently back in circulation in Shang-Chi, so she could end up getting her hands on him too. Seems like they’re setting up some kind of Dark Avengers story (albeit with a bit more moral nuance than “Norman Osborne has supervillains pose as the Avengers). Be interesting to see where that plays outs.

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Al-x, Todd

I wonder if Justin Hammer or Stane are due to return as the Iron Man analogue?

The Hawkeye analogue is tough though. I don’t know if they have any villains that are dull and forgettable enough.

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Todd, Martin Smith

Normally I’d say they’re cooking some Thunderbolts, buuuuuuuuuuut, let’s be real, “Dark Avengers” would probably make more money just with that name alone… so it’s probably a better bet.

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Todd

Dave wrote:

The Hawkeye analogue is tough though. I don’t know if they have any villains that are dull and forgettable enough.

Quite the opposite! They have a plethora of mediocre villains to chose from. The problem is most are dead and none are archers.

Seriously, they could probably use the new Taskmaster for Hawkeye.

As I mentioned in the Loki thread, Marvel movies and TV shows are about passing the story baton from one project to another. Black Widow is a great example of this.

It fills in story threads from other movies while setting up a new character to take on the mantle. Furthermore, threads from this movie will be picked up in the Hawkeye series, which will probably set something up to continued in another project.

BW did have some nice character moments but to really was doing a lot of extra work for the MCU rather than focusing on Natasha.

Todd wrote:

As I mentioned in the Loki thread, Marvel movies and TV shows are about passing the story baton from one project to another. Black Widow is a great example of this.

Historically I feel as though they’ve done a pretty good job balancing the story being told with the teases for the future so that you don’t feel that you’re watching a two-hour trailer for something else (with a few exceptions, like Iron Man 2 and Age of Ultron).

But I feel as though that balance is maybe shifting and a lot of the foreshadowing stuff is starting to become unduly prominent.

‘Black Widow’ Weaves $79M Overseas Debut For $159M WW Theatrical Bow – International Box Office

So I got my answer.

October 6th or after it is…

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Todd

Al-x wrote:

So I got my answer.

October 6th or after it is…

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Uncle Retrospective, Todd

October 6th or after it is…

It already is… it was already available like a couple hours after it hit D+

And interestingly enough, it seems that didn’t hurt the BO all that much… not surprised, at all, but quite interesting nonetheless.

Disney is saying they made $60 million from the the Disney+ Premier Access of Black Widow. That means 2 million people paid the $30.

Todd wrote:

Disney is saying they made $60 million from the the Disney+ Premier Access of Black Widow. That means 2 million people paid the $30.

The main way this is useful is that if they don’t announce numbers for any other movies, they did worse. It’ll be interesting to see if they say how well Jungle Cruise does. Nothing for Mulan, Raya, or Cruella.

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Martin Smith

That makes sense. Hard to imagine any of those movies would have been expected to fare better than the first new MCU movie in a while. Can’t imagine that another Rock action movie will either.

[Rocket]

Todd wrote:

they could probably use the new Taskmaster for Hawkeye.

Bullseye is alive in MCU(or rather has not been killed in MCU). Do not be confused by Charlie Cox’s appearance in the MCU. It is not the same DD as the Netflix DD. There are way too many statements out there saying Netflix is not MCU

I can’t wait for Hawkeye after the post-credit scene. I have enjoyed what i have seen of Hailee Steinfeld and look forward to watching her square off against Florence Pugh.
I enjoyed David Harbour and Rachel Weisz doing their best take of Mom and Pop.
I enjoyed the stunt person doing the Taskmaster’s action scenes and their mimicking of classic MCU moves.(could very be the same stunt man who did them the first time around)

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Rocket.

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Todd

If ‘Black Widow’ Were 10 Times Shorter And 100 Times More Honest

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Al-x

I saw it last night. In truth this is a decent film but none of it really elevates it to a ‘great’ status.

The performances are good, the action sequences are too. There’s no real surprises outside one minor twist. The humour is a little chuckle rather than guffaw.

I enjoyed it. It’s a well made B+ movie that I won’t revisit probably.

Watching with the family they probably could have hand-held a little more that this is a flashback film.

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Ben, Todd

So I guess this is ScarJo’s way of saying she never wants to work with Disney/Marvel ever again.

Scarlett Johansson Sues Walt Disney Co. Over Day And Date Release Of ‘Black Widow’ In Theaters And On Disney+

Scarlett Johansson filed a lawsuit on Thursday against The Walt Disney Co., claiming that the studio breached her contract by releasing the Marvel movie Black Widow on Disney+ at the same time it was released in theaters.

The breach of contract lawsuit (read it here) was filed in Los Angeles Superior Court.

The lawsuit claims that, by steering audiences to Disney+, the media conglomerate wanted to grow its subscriber base and boost its stock price. Yet that was at the expense of Johannson, whose compensation would “largely be based on box office receipts,” according to the lawsuit, while she “extracted a promise from Marvel that the release” of Black Widow would be a theatrical release.

The lawsuit also claims that “Disney’s financial disclosures make clear that the very Disney executives who orchestrated this strategy will personally benefit from their and Disney’s misconduct,” as it identifies Disney CEO’s Bob Chapek’s equity grants “totaling 3.8 times his $2.5 million base salary” in 2021, with the “primary justification” for that award being the launch of direct-to-consumer services. The lawsuit also notes that Disney executive chairman Bob Iger received the “overwhelming majority” of his $16.5 million compensation in the form of stock grants, with the company’s annual report citing the growth of Disney+.

“In short, the message to—and from Disney’s top management was clear: increase Disney+ subscribers, never mind your contractual promises, and you will be rewarded,” the lawsuit states.

Kasowitz Benson Torres LLP’s John Berlinski, Johansson’s attorney, said in a statement, “It’s no secret that Disney is releasing films like Black Widow directly onto Disney+ to increase subscribers and thereby boost the company’s stock price – and that it’s hiding behind Covid-19 as a pretext to do so. But ignoring the contracts of the artists responsible for the success of its films in furtherance of this short-sighted strategy violates their rights and we look forward to proving as much in court. This will surely not be the last case where Hollywood talent stands up to Disney and makes it clear that, whatever the company may pretend, it has a legal obligation to honor its contracts.”

The company did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The Wall Street Journal first reported on the filing of the lawsuit.

Even though Black Widow posted the best domestic opening at the box office with $80.3M, many in the industry believe money was left on the table with Disney not only crushing the theatrical and PVOD window, but leaving the Marvel movie open up for piracy — and pirated it was. Black Widow according to TorrentFreak has been the No. 1 pirated movie since its opening on July 9. Disney attempted to herald the pic’s opening weekend revenue for the film, saying it made a combined global theatrical and Disney+ Premier PVOD take of $218M ($60M WW PVOD + $158M WW global B.O. debut). Disney plans to trumpet similar PVOD and B.O. stats this coming weekend for their Dwayne Johnson-Emily Blunt movie Jungle Cruise which is also available on Disney+ Premier for $29.99. However, Black Widow dropped 68% in its second weekend, the worst ever for a Disney Marvel movie, indicating that piracy and PVOD had cannibalized the title. The results prompted the National Association of Theatre Owners to publicly slam Disney for crushing the window. Black Widow will be lucky to make $350M WW at the end of the day at the box office, a far cry from the $700M WW which Universal’s traditional theatrical windowed global release F9 is set to do. Marvel movies at the global box office have been having a streak in recent years of clearing $1 billion.

Further crushing of windows by Disney on Black Widow was announced earlier this week with the title getting a 33-day theatrical window (with Disney+ Premier) before the pic arrives no digital platforms on Aug. 10, followed by a DVD and Blu-Ray release on Sept. 14 and the Johansson title being completely available for free to Disney+ subscribers on Oct. 6. This is a different window practice from Warners which has their new movies in theaters and on HBO Max for the first 30-something days, then exclusive to theaters for another month before any ancillary home windows occur.

Meanwhile, exhibition hasn’t gotten a discount on rental terms with Disney on their day-and-date release many theater owners tell us. This compared to Warner Bros which I’m told has been generous on terms with theaters given their pandemic 2021 simultaneous theatrical HBO Max release plan, whereby their streaming subscribers get access to current theatrical movies for free.

Still TBD whether Disney continues this same day theatrical-Disney+ Premier strategy. Currently the rest of their theatrical slate, which includes upcoming 20th Century Studios’ Free Guy and Marvel’s Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, are all expected to debut in an exclusive theatrical window.

Disney will argue that the global pandemic and lopsided offshore markets caused them to release Black Widow and Jungle Cruise on Disney+ and theaters; and that they’re not giving the movie away for free in homes like HBO Max is with their movies. NATO asserts that this practice simply moved PVOD money up slightly, but will damage all downstream monies on Black Widow going forward.

We hear that the Johnson and the Seven Bucks camp don’t plan a similar attack on Disney like Johansson here as they stood alongside the studio in the dynamic window plant for Jungle Cruise to get it before as many people as they could during Covid. Johnson even announced the theatrical-Disney+ Premier release on his social media channels about Jungle Cruise. That movie is set to open to $65M this weekend at the global box office.

Big exhibition bosses like Imax’s Rich Gelfond who spoke during his company’s 2Q earnings call, are hopeful that this whole dynamic window tentpole plan for Disney is temporary moving forward. Knock on wood.

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Rocket

Hollywood accounting.

Pretty sure that Peter Jackson sued NewLine while also signing on to do The Hobbit series.

I imagine we’ll see more of these kinds of lawsuits. The big fuss over the HBO Max same-day premieres that we saw when that plan was first announced was a precursor to this kind of thing I think.

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Todd

Disney Fires Back at Scarlett Johansson, Calls ‘Black Widow’ Lawsuit ‘Sad and Distressing’

I mean… 20 mil for that phoned-in performance… not bad. That said, Disney are notorious scrooges, so I’m not surprised they didn’t bother to compensate her more accordingly. But hey, if she can get more money, good for her… she IS burning down some major bridges though, so I hope it’s worth it.

Well, if you feel you got shafted, wouldn’t you try to make your case?

I am no lawyer, but I feel she has a case.

Who should I root for, vapid celeb who wants more money or the number one evil Overlord corporation?

 

I guess go Scarjo, get them girl!

Al-x wrote:

Well, if you feel you got shafted, wouldn’t you try to make your case?

Sure, but 1) She knew who she got in bed with. 2) She’s still one of the best paid actors in the world. So I don’t really care… like I said, good for her for milking the cow as much as possible, but whatever.

Jon wrote:

I mean… 20 mil for that phoned-in performance… not bad. That said, Disney are notorious scrooges, so I’m not surprised they didn’t bother to compensate her more accordingly. But hey, if she can get more money, good for her… she IS burning down some major bridges though, so I hope it’s worth it.

I did get the impression that she was pretty much through with Marvel and Marvel was setting up replacements anyway for, generally, most of the whole original phase 1 cast. The question is whether this would finish her with Disney in general and… hard to say since she has value outside her work for them. It’s not like people are going to stop offering her roles since she’s one of the few stars still capable of getting people to see a movie. It’s not like Disney is honestly going to willingly lose money and look like a bad guy due to a labor dispute.

At the same time, it’s not just Johansson driving this – stars are practically (and in many cases actually are) corporations and the decisions are made in conjunction with their representation.

Scarlett Johansson’s Agent Rips Disney Over ‘Black Widow’ Contract Dispute – WSJ

‘Black Widow’ Scarlett Johansson Lawsuit: Actress’ Agent Slams Disney – Deadline

CAA is a far more valuable partner for a star’s career than any of the studios and if they are backing and encouraging her against Disney it probably means they were instrumental in moving the suit forward since it very much affects talent compensation and also their agency’s profits.

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Todd

Oh yeah I’m sure her agents had more to do with this than her…

But on the other hand, I do have a feeling that SJ might be retiring, if not from acting altogether, from these types of movies, due to her recent comments… but hey who knows… money talks in the end.

I’d think that is likely as well. Maybe going into directing and producing instead.

In the “Golden Age” of Hollywood, actors would end up making more money from real estate than they ever did in entertainment, so I’m always curious what investments and side businesses big actors actually have that are probably much more lucrative than making movies. It is just getting too hard to make any money at this business anymore, so I think anyone who can get out of it probably should.

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Todd

A few things:

The quick reflexes
The quick thinking
The fighting techniques
The death defying jumps and driving
The slow moments of the film where there are these touching sentimental scenes, disclosing a touching moment in the past
The getting to the huge complex, finding out the master plan, fighting to get out, blowing up the complex, and barely escaping
The small scene at the ending that is a reminder of something seen at the beginning to show the movie went full circle
The post credit scene

What else?

As I was watching it, I said “This was done before in xxxx, I saw this in xxxx where it was done better etc…

Even the slow version of “Smells Like Teen Spirit” was done better by Tori Amos but I digress.

Is it just me, or did anyone else like Florence Pugh as the “sister” character more than Scarlett’s Natasha?

Oh, and that Daily Beast article link that was posted by the good @jrcarter upthread was so spot on…

Okay, finally saw this. And overall, it was, well, it was fine. Echoing what others have said, this is basically a Bond movie (and it’s telling you that, after all), so it’s not concerned with a subtle plot or anything, and it doesn’t need to be. Action is really good for the most part. The family dynamic and all that is quite entertaining and I did like Harbour’s Red Guardian even if the joke of him saying daft things is overused. Completely agree that the first part of the movie is the best part, and makes it feel like a far more interesting movie than it turned out to be, in the end. Yes, Taskmaster was wasted. And the particular mix of seriousness and humour works a lot of the time, but certainly not always.

A few more points that haven’t been mentioned yet:
– If you think about the family characters too much, what they’re doing there pretty much falls apart. In spite of them doing such a lot of character work especially on Natasha and Yelena. The writing isn’t quite as strong as it needs to be to make me believe in this supposed family coming together.
– The brutality of the fights is impressive, but they go over the top so far so quickly. The kind of damage Natasha takes, she shouldn’t be able to just get up every time, much less keep fighting the next day. On my way back from the cinema, I misstepped and twisted my ankle or something, and I’ll be limping for days, not doing backflips and poses. This is par for the course, of course, but maybe in your non-superhero superhero movie there should be a difference between how non-superhuman characters take damage.
– It’s interesting that they turned the bad guy into Harvey Weinstein, even physically. I liked it on the one hand, but on the other he was so obviously just a brutal abuser that he made for a boring villain really. Oh, and I wish they’d explained how he survived that first bomb blast. I mean, that looked pretty fucking deadly to me.
– The feminist bits with all the black widows towards the end were a bit too much. I appreciate the intention, but they really layed it on very, very thick in the way it was staged. This kind of thing works better with a bit of subtlety.

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Jon wrote:

I mean… 20 mil for that phoned-in performance… not bad. That said, Disney are notorious scrooges, so I’m not surprised they didn’t bother to compensate her more accordingly. But hey, if she can get more money, good for her… she IS burning down some major bridges though, so I hope it’s worth it.

Ah, come on, her performance was fine.

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Rocket

Christian wrote:

On my way back from the cinema, I misstepped and twisted my ankle or something, and I’ll be limping for days, not doing backflips and poses.

Well that’s why they’re not making superhero movies about you.

Although the way things are going you’ll probably get a Disney+ series.

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garjones, Todd, Christian

That’s actually the plot for the Hawkeye show. The last few episodes are him heroically keeping his foot elevated while he completes his colouring book.

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Christian

saga wrote:

That’s actually the plot for the Hawkeye show. The last few episodes are him heroically keeping his foot elevated while he completes his colouring book.

Don’t miss the mid-credits scene in Episode 1, where he death-defyingly stirs some marinara sauce in the pot to keep it from burning.

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Christian

Jon wrote:

I mean… 20 mil for that phoned-in performance… not bad. That said, Disney are notorious scrooges, so I’m not surprised they didn’t bother to compensate her more accordingly. But hey, if she can get more money, good for her… she IS burning down some major bridges though, so I hope it’s worth it.

While $20M is nothing to scoff at, RDJ is said to have gotten over $70M for one of the movies.

It is almost like in sports hearing an athlete turn down a $200M deal. It is a lot to the average person, but in the athlete’s world or bubble, if the athlete’s contemporaries get $300M for the same thing the athlete feels ripped off if they accept.

It is all relative.

Yes, but RDJ has surely generated considerably more money for Disney/Marvel than Scar Jo ever has. In a sporting analogy it would be the difference in the value a football club would get between signing Lionel Messi or the captain of the US women’s team.

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Todd

Also, RDJ clearly had the better agent. His case is pretty exceptional and not only within MCU movies.

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Inside Disney: How the Bob Iger-Bob Chapek Rift Led to the ScarJo Blunder

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Disney’s PR for this (and honestly going back a ways) is baffling in its missteps. I get the impression that, really, Black Widow possibly did not make as much money as all parties were expecting which drove the argument over who profits from what. Now, whether or not that is true, the studio should have still wanted to keep this quiet because now it takes away press that is needed for the next movies and projects in Marvel’s line up. Shang Chi and The Eternals need more of push as they are significant steps outward from the initial line of films. Black Widow goes all the way back to Iron Man 2 so, theoretically, it should be a hit. Any legal conflicts shouldn’t make the news and get settled quickly because now it will be hard not to come up whenever Marvel news appears.

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Rocket, Todd

Yeah, it’s a bit baffling that they didn’t manage to renegotiate with Johanson and keep things under wraps.

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Rocket

#BlackWidow deleted scene.
This would have been a perfect ending. pic.twitter.com/bQp3GidTbV

— Scarlett Johansson Fanpage (@ScarlettForum) August 10, 2021

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njerry

Just watched it on BluRay.

Fun movie.

Ray Winstone has the dodgiest foreign accent since Sean Connery in Highlander.

Marvel’s films are always an enjoyable way to spend a couple of hours.

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njerry, Rocket

Ben wrote:

Just watched it on BluRay.

Is it out on Blu Ray already? That was quick.

Three months tends to be the norm now, this came out 13 Sept.

Christian wrote:

Yeah, it’s a bit baffling that they didn’t manage to renegotiate with Johanson and keep things under wraps.

And now the Russo brothers said that they might leave Disney over this ScarJo thing and court tension…

There are no people, there is only Disney.

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Todd

Scarlett Johansson, Disney Settle Explosive ‘Black Widow’ Lawsuit

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Todd

Ben wrote:

Three months tends to be the norm now, this came out 13 Sept.

3 months has been the standard agreement for home release for about 20 years. Saying that I suspect Dave is just surprised 3 months has elapsed, this Covid period really messes with your time perception.

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Ben

Had thought it used to be longer but, then again, there is the Covid time effect where time slows down.

Ben wrote:

Had thought it used to be longer but, then again, there is the Covid time effect where time slows down.

3 months has been in place a very long time. The UK cinema strike against Disney trying to reduce it to 2 months for Alice in Wonderland is over 11 years ago.

Well, shit…

More seriously, it being that span of time does take the edge off not seeing stuff in the cinema.  It’s only 3 months on that it’ll be available on disc or streaming.

Yup but cinema attendances (until covid) in the UK rose all through that time. They were at their lowest in the mid 80s where you gad to wait a year to rent a VHS copy (as buying one cost 80 quid or more).

Which suggests for many the timing of being able to see it is secondary to the experience of going out to the cinema.

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Ben

Which makes sense, there is that x-factor to seeing films at a cinema, especially one that knows how to use the screen.  It can’t really be replicated elsewhere.

I’ve said before that many ignore the ‘going out’ factor, probably because it’s too random to analyse.

When I was working in a cinema dozens of times every day people would come up to the box office and ask what’s the best film to watch. They hadn’t gone to see a specific film just to ‘go to the pictures’.

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Rocket, njerry, Ben

Watched this on Disney+ tonight now that it’s showed up there.

I really quite enjoyed it – it reminded me of the earlier solo MCU movies before everything was a gigantic crossover, just a decent single-hero adventure. A good straightforward action romp with a nice dysfunctional family dynamic at the heart of it.

Pugh was really good and so was Harbour. Getting that central quartet right made the whole thing work. Plus they dialled back on the humour a bit so it didn’t undercut the (fairly serious) themes of the story. Although I did like the running gag about Natasha’s landing pose.

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Rocket, Ben

garjones wrote:

Ben wrote:

Three months tends to be the norm now, this came out 13 Sept.

3 months has been the standard agreement for home release for about 20 years. Saying that I suspect Dave is just surprised 3 months has elapsed, this Covid period really messes with your time perception.

garjones wrote:

Ben wrote:

Had thought it used to be longer but, then again, there is the Covid time effect where time slows down.

3 months has been in place a very long time. The UK cinema strike against Disney trying to reduce it to 2 months for Alice in Wonderland is over 11 years ago.

No, until relatively recently it used to be a little bit longer, more like 4 to 5 months after theatrical release.

That 2010 dispute between the UK cinema chains and Disney over Alice In Wonderland was about Disney reducing the window from 17 weeks/4 months to 12 weeks/3 months, not reducing it from 3 months to 2 months.

Since that happened, the normal windows have shrunk to the point where now a 90-day gap between cinema and home release is fairly standard (although usually there’s an initial VOD release a couple of weeks ahead of physical media).

And obviously the last couple of years of covid have shaken things up entirely.

Waiting So Long for a Black Widow Movie Made Even Less Sense Considering the Story It Told

I presume the list starts and ends with “the wording of Scarlett Johansson’s contract”?

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Todd

BLACK WIDOW kept me entertained for 2 hours and 14 minutes, and didn’t insult my limited intelligence. That’s all I need from an MCU movie.

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lorcan_nagle, Ben, Dave

njerry wrote:

BLACK WIDOW kept me entertained for 2 hours and 14 minutes

Come on Jerry, the credits weren’t that entertaining.

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njerry, lorcan_nagle

Dave wrote:

njerry wrote:

BLACK WIDOW kept me entertained for 2 hours and 14 minutes

Come on Jerry, the credits weren’t that entertaining.

Jerry is easily entertained. Give him a piece of string and a shoe box and he’ll have fun for hours.

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Christian, Dave, njerry, lorcan_nagle

Dave wrote:

njerry wrote:

BLACK WIDOW kept me entertained for 2 hours and 14 minutes

Come on Jerry, the credits weren’t that entertaining.

You have no idea what I do while the credits roll. Suffice it to say I entertain myself.

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Dave, Todd

Todd wrote:

Dave wrote:

njerry wrote:

BLACK WIDOW kept me entertained for 2 hours and 14 minutes

Come on Jerry, the credits weren’t that entertaining.

Jerry is easily entertained. Give him a piece of string and a shoe box and he’ll have fun for hours.

ToddDammit, you promised you wouldn’t tell Dave what I do while the credits roll!!

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Dave, Todd

Scarlett Johansson's #BlackWidow has short hair in this official unused concept art from her solo movie! More new photos: https://t.co/B3iYbcb2QP pic.twitter.com/NxC9qd649Y

— MCU – The Direct (@MCU_Direct) January 29, 2023