Watchmen (TV Series) Thread – SPOILERS INSIDE!!!

Topic

[Todd]

I’m seeing positive reviews for it.
https://www.tvguide.com/news/watchmen-hbo-review-damon-lindelof/

• This topic was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Todd.

Replies

Sounds like you didn’t like the show.

Well there will be another showrunner so expect another take on it all.

I’m with @Jacowboy on this. It had a lot of potential that it failed to deliver on.

It wanted to tackle the big concept of racism and not only did it fail with answers, I’m not sure it asked a proper question about it to begin with.

Ultimately, the biggest problem with sequels (and prequels) is that they are superfluous. They add nothing and can’t stand on their own. The original series told its story and gave you everything you needed to know. Nothing else is required. Everything else is obnoxious noise.

And more than that, as a TV show, it also failed… nevermind the Watchmen connections… the pace was bad, the plot was disjointed, the characters were mostly one-note and un-engaging, the villains were horribly one-note and frankly lame and so much more… like, what was the overall message anyways? Was it “racism = bad”? What was the show even about?
 
And again, there’s really a lot of good stuff in there, from snippets of ideas, to the production, the direction (on some episodes especially), the acting in general, etc… but that’s precisely what pisses me even more… for me it’s West World all over again, but perhaps even worse in some ways… and even though it shouldn’t, I know I know, but it also irritates me to no end whenever I hear/read all the coments about how “oh it’s the best CB tv show ever” all over the place… I’m like bitch please, it’s not even top 20…
 
Also:
 

Todd wrote:

It wanted to tackle the big concept of racism and not only did it fail with answers, I’m not sure it asked a proper question about it to begin with.

 
True… I’ve already said I would’ve prefered that they stay away from racism, because frankly, these days every other show is about xenophobia and the setting of Watchmen was a great opportunity to tackle other themes…. but sure, why not, but at least do something good with it… like, not even good, just coherent would be nice… xD
  

Al-x wrote:

Well there will be another showrunner so expect another take on it all.

 
I dunno Al, they haven’t really said anything about a 2nd season yet… I’d like to think that they won’t, but for some reason that escapes me it got a lot of positive reactions, so I’m sure they’ll consider it… unless the positive reaction didn’t translate into numbers of course… we’ll see I guess.

Two by two,

Hands of blue,

You can’t take The Yaaaay from me  

Anonymous wrote:

Two by two,

Hands of blue,

You can’t take The Yaaaay from me

 
Not trying to… I mean, I love Man of Steel, so I know a thing or two about people not taking the yay from me… also, for some reason “yay” kinda sounds like a code work for cocaine to me right now, but I can’t really think of a reason for it right now… =P
 
Anyways, speaking of racism and hands of blue… I’d actually be interested to know what people here, both our black fellow members (yes that means you Al) and whoever else enjoyed the racial elements of the show, think about that whole black Jon thing, because… if you think about it for more than 20 seconds:
 
So you have this white dude… hell, not even white dude, you got this german dude that was born in a specific time and who becomes a god, and sure, his skin turns blue, but let’s not be coy, the dude is a fuckin white german ubermensch, right? And then he just LITERALLY, and I mean literally in the literal sense of the word, pulls the most pro-level, next-level type of black face there could ever be in order to live a de-powered non-godly mundane boring life… and the when he regains his godly powers, he’s still black, but he’s blue, and he gets jobbed and killed like a bitch…
 
So what the fuck am I supposed to take away from all that? What’s the message there? =/
 
Seriously tho… who fuckin wrote that?? and whyyyyyyyyyy????

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303461/ 

 

Jon wrote:

I dunno Al, they haven’t really said anything about a 2nd season yet… I’d like to think that they won’t, but for some reason that escapes me it got a lot of positive reactions, so I’m sure they’ll consider it… unless the positive reaction didn’t translate into numbers of course… we’ll see I guess.

Yeah, I’m not sure how well it did but it didn’t step into the GOT vacuum HBO faces even though it seems to be surprisingly expensive production.

Id probably have been more interested in an anthology type show with episodes set in the world after WATCHMEN. The Hooded Justice flashback was the most interesting episode. Also, there are entire storylines in Watchmen such as the story of Mothman, that really seemed designed for following up. Had Moore and Gibbons actually gotten the rights to the comic as they thought they would, it’s interesting to think what he would have done with them. Imagine a Watchmen series of titles instead of Moore’s ABC.

Still, I think I would’ve preferred something like this that was original and not actually WATCHMEN. It felt constrained by the comic more than a riff on the book.

Anonymous wrote:

Had Moore and Gibbons actually gotten the rights to the comic as they thought they would, it’s interesting to think what he would have done with them.

I think a Minutemen series was kicked around as a vague possibility for a follow-up at some point.

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah, I’m not sure how well it did but it didn’t step into the GOT vacuum HBO faces even though it seems to be surprisingly expensive production.

Yeah no, again, this was another West World… another dud… But yeah, I like the idea of the anthology format… the mirror guy epsiode would’ve been pretty sweet, and a contained Laurie episode would’ve also been better than what they did with her. It would certainly allow them to explore certain stuff less clunkily…

Jon wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Two by two,

Hands of blue,

You can’t take The Yaaaay from me

 
Not trying to… I mean, I love Man of Steel, so I know a thing or two about people not taking the yay from me… also, for some reason “yay” kinda sounds like a code work for cocaine to me right now, but I can’t really think of a reason for it right now… =P
 
Anyways, speaking of racism and hands of blue… I’d actually be interested to know what people here, both our black fellow members (yes that means you Al) and whoever else enjoyed the racial elements of the show, think about that whole black Jon thing, because… if you think about it for more than 20 seconds:
 
So you have this white dude… hell, not even white dude, you got this german dude that was born in a specific time and who becomes a god, and sure, his skin turns blue, but let’s not be coy, the dude is a fuckin white german ubermensch, right? And then he just LITERALLY, and I mean literally in the literal sense of the word, pulls the most pro-level, next-level type of black face there could ever be in order to live a de-powered non-godly mundane boring life… and the when he regains his godly powers, he’s still black, but he’s blue, and he gets jobbed and killed like a bitch…
 
So what the fuck am I supposed to take away from all that? What’s the message there? =/
 
Seriously tho… who fuckin wrote that?? and whyyyyyyyyyy????

Well, while I didn’t enjoy watching the Tulsa massacre in ep 1, it was a bold thing to shed light on it as it really happened and was forgotten. Also, apparently there are secret white supremacists high up in government office, the police force, etc. not that every white person is a member, but I digress… Lindeloff wanted to do it like this and Regina King said to go for it.

As for Manhattan, he is/was a white man who became a god and apparently shed his humanity and skin color. It was a little something to see Manhattan as a black man but it was that version of him that was there to fit the story. Moore’s Manhattan would not have gone down like that, but Lindeloff’s version did.

I would like to see next time if there is one, a squid cult, more of Mirror guy, where the hell Nite Owl is, and if Angela walks on water and becomes Manhattan. Maybe she will do more with the powers…

All I know is that this version of Dr. Manhattan makes me feel both inadequate and superior at the same time, and that’s weird.

 

So Gramps plan was to use Trieu to wipe out the white power people in exchange for giving her Dr. Manhattan.

Al-x wrote:

So Gramps plan was to use Trieu to wipe out the white power people in exchange for giving her Dr. Manhattan.

That’s what Trieu thought his plan was. His actual plan – or more precisely, Doc Manhattan’s and his plan – was exactly how things turned out in the end. Presumably because Manhattan figured that this was the best version of how things would go because every other possibility led either to both his and Angela’s death or to Trieu getting his powers.

Having finished it now, I would say that I liked the show a lot. It wasn’t entirely as good as its best episodes – the first ep and the Hooded Justice one were amongst the best TV of the year – but in the end, I wish they hadn’t made it about a supervillain’s plot to gain Manhattan’s powers. The Tulsa story was the real one, and the one that was truly affecting, and it got short shrift in the end. They would’ve done better to focus on that side of things more instead of all the superheroics in the end. The whole about freeing Veidt, the power sucker, and the squid attack was… well, it was the kind of stuff you would expect from a superhero show, wasn’t it? From a normal one, that is. Not much left of the claustrophobic tension of the first episode. That this tension and the face-off between the prepper-like Cavalry and the masked polic is revealed to simply be part of a Keene’s plot to gain the presidency actually lessens the impact of the scenario; it’s just a supervillain’s plot – ironically, exactly the kind of thing the comic Watchmen would have scoffed at.

And there is one more fundamental problem that comes out of their treatment of two of the central characters: much like I thought they went wrong with Adrian, I also thought they went wrong with Manhattan, in the end. Doc Manhattan’s powers, in the comic, were based on him putting himself together again; it was as much his own effort as a cosmic accident. Not something that anyone could have repeated by applying the same procedure, and not something to be sucked, or given, away. It’s not supposed to be that kind of power. With Adrian (apart from just making too obnoxious and not arrogant, but also charming as he was in the comic) there was also one major flaw in the final episode: In the book, Adrian emphasises that his parents were perfectly normal people and he reflects on how he came to be so extraordinary – and comes to the tentative conclusion that maybe it was because he chose to be. The story of Ozymandias in the book is thus the complete opposite of what they end up doing on the show: Here, his “power”, his hyper-intelligence, is genetic and can thus be stolen. Same trope as with Doc Manhattan: In both cases, what the book said was that anyone can be extraordinary, that it’s just a confluence of coincidence and individual will. In the show, in both cases you have to be either born special or be handed the power to be so. It is not only in contradiction to the book, but also, I would say, an elitest and in comparison far more bio-centric approach (and ironically thus stands closer to the Cavalry’s view of humanity).

Still. In spite of these ultimate failings, it was very good television, with moments of brilliance. I liked it very much, and personally, I’d welcome another season with Lindeloff as showrunner (though Al seems to have some inside information that that isn’t happening…).

Christian wrote:

I liked it very much, and personally, I’d welcome another season with Lindeloff as showrunner (though Al seems to have some inside information that that isn’t happening…).

Lindeloff has said that this was a one and done season. He did say that if an idea for another season come to him, he would be willing to pursue it. It could be some time though.

Looking at what he said, I think a lot of that is Lindeloff being careful. My guess is that the moment HBO ordered a second season, he’d be on it. But I have no idea whether Watchmen was a successful show as far as audiences go?

Looking at the numbers, it seems like at least it gained rather than shed viewers from the pilot to the last episodes, and it seems not to be doing so badly compared to other HBO shows. So, we’ll see. I’d like to see another season tackle an entirely different setting (which I think is what Lindeloff would want to do, as well), using Laurie as a bridging character.

Well if Westworld got more than one season, I can see this being renewed… however, without anymore source material to badly ape, I don’t see Lindelof getting involved… he’d need to do something original… xD

Jon wrote:

Well if Westworld got more than one season, I can see this being renewed… however, without anymore source material to badly ape, I don’t see Lindelof getting involved… he’d need to do something original… xD

Add to the fact that he’s used some of the biggest characters in this series. There’s not that much left to work with.

You just hurt Nite Owls feeling.

rory wrote:

You just hurt Nite Owls feeling.

Isn’t that what you’re supposed to do?

It’s been a while since I read the GN, did Oz actually catch a bullet in the book?

Best thing in 2019. I just flat dang loved it.

Except their Dr. Manhattan makes me feel inadequate; and that just ain’t right.

 

Doc Manhattan doesn’t make me feel inadequate.

 

Miqque wrote:

Best thing in 2019. I just flat dang loved it.

Except their Dr. Manhattan makes me feel inadequate; and that just ain’t right.

 

Don’t think I’d ever have to tell you to quit prancing round on the swimming pool like a fool. That’s what counts.

Todd wrote:

Add to the fact that he’s used some of the biggest characters in this series. There’s not that much left to work with.

Next series could use Laurie again, and Dan, and go into some of the other Minuteman characters. That’d be quite enough. It’d have been better for this season if they’d given the new characters more to do, anyway – Looking Glass, Sister Night, the Red Scare and fucking Panda were all great and could’ve used more space to develop them. The Red Scare especially, obviously.

So, if they did that – a story more loosely connected to the OGN, but with a plot that stayed more focused on the new characters, I think a second season could very easily be superior to the first.

Dave wrote:

Yeah, Laurie was right. Veidt is an asshole.

And big deal, he caught a bullet with his hands. Leroy Green could catch bullets with his teeth.

A reliable source has told me that Moore’s original vision was that Veidt would catch the bullet with his penis .

Sadly DC interfered and we got the version we did. If only!

I doubt I need to click on that to know what it says.

Apparently Watchmen is done unless Lindelof decides he has more to tell.

“It would be hard to imagine doing it without Damon involved in some way.”

Good. Bian’s fate deserved more exploration, otherwise it’s self-contained; they chucked everything possible into a single season and wrapped up pretty much everything.

Except maybe Lube Man. He should maybe get a webisode or two.

Now can someone bring me Season 3 of The OA and Mindhunter already. No fair. But at least I had them for a while.

Anonymous wrote:

Apparently Watchmen is done unless Lindelof decides he has more to tell.

“It would be hard to imagine doing it without Damon involved in some way.”

Good. Bian’s fate deserved more exploration, otherwise it’s self-contained; they chucked everything possible into a single season and wrapped up pretty much everything.

No. It’s more like if a band releases say, for example, a prog rock album with all the concept. Then they retire, then regroup and release a sea shanties record to critical acclaim.

The Nite Owl and Pirate Jenny went to sea,

In a beautiful pea-green boat.

You’re basically describing Genesis before and after Peter Gabriel’s departure, yes?

(Where is that tongue-in-cheek emoji?)

No, it’s more like, say, for example, if a band releases an album and then the record company puts together a band of session musicians under the same name to make a follow-up record.

In fact… that’s not even an analogy, that is literally it.

There is a huge tribute band industry at the moment. And I mean, really huge, venues are booking more tribute bands than they are booking new original acts.

And some of these tribute bands have really amazing musicians in them, capable of reproducing the originals’ work note-perfectly, in many cases doing it better than the current (ageing) originals can do it themselves. They are technically beyond reproach. They deserve credit for being incredibly skilled copyists.

Personally, I don’t go to tribute gigs. I will always prefer to see (a) the original, even if not at their full power or (b) somebody creating something entirely new rather than copying the past.

But I can understand why people do go to tribute gigs, the appeal is obvious. And I can’t really blame people for wanting to go to those gigs, but I do think it’s a shame that the tribute industry is choking out brand new music.

Wait but isn’t Lindelof himself a tribute band in your analogy? I’m confused… xD

Yes, this is exactly what I’m saying.

But people seem to be suggesting that Watchmen S2 won’t be as good as S1 if Lindelof isn’t on board, because if you change the tribute band line up it’s no longer an authentic tribute band?

 

ohhh oh alright gotcha…

Nah I don’t think it matters… I mean, yes it was pretty self-contained, so they can do something entirely different. I hope that’s what they do actually… IF there’s a S2.

DavidM wrote:

But people seem to be suggesting that Watchmen S2 won’t be as good as S1 if Lindelof isn’t on board,

That implies Season 1 was actually good.

Todd wrote:

That implies Season 1 was actually good.

I’m not judging the series either way. I just find the different reactions to it entertaining

I agree with Todd. Watchmen the mini-series wasn’t actually good.

It was very very very very very good.

And thanks to David, I heard Alan Moore’s singing last night.

Anonymous wrote:

I heard Alan Moore’s singing last night.

There is no end to that man’s talents.

Well, there’s signing contracts. He sucks at signing good contracts.

I hate to be the one to disappoint you, David – I don’t think you’ll be getting a Watchmen musical any time soon.

”’even though that would be awesome and would set new records for Broadway theater ticket sales!!!

But since Alan’s big falling out with Andrew Lloyd Weber he’s sworn never to work in the musical industry ever again, so

Moore even asked for his name to be taken off the musical adaptation of Neonomicon.

I heard that was a conspiracy propagated by the sinister ducks because they thought Alan favoured Blur over Oasis because of the Gorrilaz.

Anonymous wrote:

because they thought Alan favored Blur over Oasis

what is wrong with that?

https://nypost.com/2015/04/30/5-reasons-blur-were-better-than-oasis/

p.s. I have no dog in this fight. I don’t care about either

Nothing. It was a reference to the Gorillaz/Moore John Dee opera which also came to nothing.

You can like either/or both.

I care about the doggies though, they shouldn’t be fighting.

 

It’s in the NY Post so it’s automatically wrong.

You’re not from New York, you don’t get to say that.

It’s in the NY Post so it’s automatically wrong

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Uncle Retrospective

It’s in the NY Post so it’s clickybaity fake news and wrong.

It’s in the NY Post, so it’s some bullshit.

It’s in the NY Post so you probably have gonnorhea now

 

Every time you make fun of the New York Post, Rupert Murdoch dies a little.
.
Keep up the good work!

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Uncle Retrospective

Mea Culpa

I was just trying to mess with the Oasis fans. I had no idea toxic the Post was. I have since been to the Doctor and gotten a clean bill of health. Whew!

Ive heard that if you say “NY Post” into the mirror three times at midnight Rupert Murdoch appears and forces you to vote Republican

More ‘Watchmen’ Suddenly “Possible” As HBO Show Reclassified As Limited Series By Cabler

Hot off a big New Series win at the WGA Awards earlier this month and heading in to this weekend’s NAACP Image Awards, HBO’s Watchmen is taking on a new category and perhaps more seasons.

“We discussed with the producers and felt limited series was the most accurate representation of the show and any possible future installments,” the WarnerMedia owned premium cabler said in a statement today.

A statement that has ambiguity and ambition written all over it.

In set of tea leaves, that shift from drama series to the more poignant category sure looks to open the door that the acclaimed Damon Lindelof show based on Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’ iconic 1980s comic series will be back for more after its initial nine-episode run last fall.

The Hunt co-writer Lindelof has said repeatedly that while he envisioned the December 15 concluding Watchmen as a self-contained story like the comics, he would be open to more seasons if there was the right tale to tell. In more recent weeks, more Watchmen has seemingly taken on an anthology of sorts form, with contained stories like what American Horror Story or Fargo have attempted over the years.

Still the situation remains fluid, I hear.

Creative concerns aside, the bottom line fact is the Regina King-led series was a critical and commerical hit for a now Game of Thrones-less HBO and that can’t be something Casey Bloys or the AT&T overlords want to give up, at least not without a fight.

Well, good. Like I said, it’d be a good format for the show and there’s a lot of stories left to tell. And I’d rather have some that stick to the low-key setting than go big like this one did; that show about costumed cops and vigilantes and racism that this season of Watchmen started as was much better than the one about Doctor Manhattan and Ozymandias that it turned into.

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Todd

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Todd, JRCarter

[paul f]

The entire video is worth watching, but the final five minutes are essential:

Trent Reznor, Atticus Ross, and Damon Lindelof on Scoring ‘Watchmen’

• This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by paul f.

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Christian, Todd, Uncle Retrospective

paul f wrote:

The entire video is worth watching

Yes it is, and thank you for that.
(also can’t believe it took me so long to watch it)

The only thing is, the link works, but I could not get sound (on phone or PC).
Like it’s a video only that just plays, can’t pause.
Could be a regional thing.

Here’s the You Tube link: Trent Reznor & Atticus Ross, Damon Lindelof Discuss Their Emmy-Winning ‘Watchmen’ Score

paul f wrote:

the final five minutes are essential

Yes they are (and fuck You Tube for inserting 2 ads just before it…)

I really enjoyed that. Thanks again.

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paul f

I watched the Watchmen (haha) this last few weeks, and… I liked it. Actually, I really enjoyed it. It wasn’t perfect but there is a lot of worse TV out there. My partner, who has little idea who Alan Moore is other than who wrote the really big expensive books on my shelves, and who cannot remember a thing from the Watchman film she saw a year ago, seemed to really enjoy it also.

I enjoyed a comic book TV series wanting to be about things. To provide layers. To be weird but tell a story. It was more coherent than Twin Peaks the return for sures :)

Its a shame that Clint Mansell didn’t do the music to be honest, thematically speaking, but Trent was a good second choice.

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Todd, Ben, Sean Robinson

Yes, I thought it really stood up on a rewatch last year.
Could go for some more. Just saying.

I want to re-watch this soonish, too. My kid hasn’t seen it yet, and hopefully we’ll find the time over the next few months.