WandaVision spoiler discussion

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#50226

The show starts on Disney+ this Friday, with the first two episodes.

Here’s an article revealing a little more about the show, including what sitcoms are homaged along the way.

Presumably the Malcolm in the Middle-inspired episode will introduce us to twins Tommy and Billy, thus introducing two more Young Avengers to the MCU.

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  • #53411

    Where’s that coming from? It’s more about time travel as far as I can tell, Loki playing a part in minor historical events.

    Oh is it? For some reason I thought it was about alternate realities… I mean, that Loki IS from an alternate reality, technically, so I just assumed… but nevermind then I guess… :unsure:

  • #53414

    I mean, that Loki IS from an alternate reality

    No it’s not. It’s the same Loki who was in cuffs in Endgame (the moment that Tony revisits from the end of the first Avengers movie), and he grabs the Tesseract, somehow gets involved with the Time Variance Authority, goes time-travelling, then eventually dies at the beginning of Infinity War. He’s just travelling up and down the timeline, not to other universes.

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  • #53418

    Well that depends on how you interpret Endgame… we don’t know he’ll “go back” to get killed in Infinty War as of yet… I mean, there’s that whole conondrum with Cap (or Thanos for that matter): Do you belive Cap just time traveled and lived his life in the MCU in hiding? Or do you believe he created an alternate reality, etc, etc… IIRC the Russos said it was more of an alternate reality scenario (which makes sense, considering the Thanos question), so the same would apply for Loki, therefore making that Loki in Endgame an “alternate” Loki, since “our” Loki is dead.

  • #53429

    I loved this episode. The show is full of intriguing ideas, that they veer between Wanda being slowly responsible and then away again keeps up the mystery while not being a ‘cock-tease’ show like Lost as they are not shy to give answers relatively quickly in. I can’t wait to watch every week.

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  • #53438

    therefore making that Loki in Endgame an “alternate” Loki, since “our” Loki is dead.

    Huh? The Loki in Endgame is seen in the past. He’s at the point in the FIRST Avengers movie where the Hulk has incapacitated him and they’re about to take him back to Asgard. That’s when he goes a-time-travellin’!

    All the stuff he does in Loki has already happened in the MCU timeline – like the fact that he was apparently D.B. Cooper. It’s just that nobody was aware Loki was involved when it happened.

    He could even travel past the point in history where he died – that’s how time-travel works!

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  • #53447

    that’s how time-travel works!

    Not in Endgame it doesn’t…

    Again, look at Thanos… “our/main” Thanos gets killed at the start of the movie… then a younger Thanos from the past (much like the Loki from A1) travels to the future and also gets killed in the future… yet the younger Thanos being killed doesn’t alter anything in that future he traveled to, which is our “main” present timeline (the snap still happened, Tony still had a daughter, etc…), because the way it works as per Endgame’s rules is that everytime you time travel and create a change, you’re creating a new parallel reality.

    So yes, the Loki in Endgame is the one from A1, but once he breaks free and fucks off somewhere he’s no longer “our” Loki… because the moment something went different, that reality became its own paralel reality… or you can also see it as the “main” timeline no longer being the “main” timeline once something changes, but that’s just more confusing.

    My point is that the Loki from the show can die or survive, it doesn’t matter, because what happened in the “main” MCU timeline happened irregardless of any timetravel shenanigans (much like young Thanos).

    But hey, don’t blame me, blame that shitty non-sensical Endgame script =P

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  • #53454

    I disagree and there’s no such word as “irregardless.” It’s just “regardless.”

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  • #53460

    I enjoyed this episode. With the last episode and this one, it finally feels like the plot is moving forward. I really enjoyed the surprise at the end. The episode moved briskly.

    I was really impressed with the moments in the Hex where the characters like Vision acknowledge something is wrong. Everything has that sitcom patina but the performances are just raw and real and have no laugh track. It felt like something from a David Lynch movie.

    I found nothing tedious about this episode. Now the first two episodes, those were beyond tedious.

  • #53467

    there’s no such word as “irregardless.” It’s just “regardless.”

    Ugh, yes I know sorry, I keep making that fucking mistake ALL THE FUCKIN TIME… it’s one of those words… u_u

  • #53470

    I do like that there’s a possibility the Fox X-Men movies all existed in Wanda’s imagination and that they kept turning to shit as she lost her mind.

    Coming up with this way to both resurrect and recast Pietro is pretty damn brilliant. Wanda said to her kids that her brother was “far away” and indeed he was. Now there is at least one set of mutant genes in the MCU…

    The “she” that Vision’s co-worker said was in his head is clearly not Wanda, right? Dottie is notably absent. Her event in the 60s ep was “for the children”. Vision reiterates this week that there are no children there other than the twins. Agnes appears to be the only other person in the town who is allowed to help take care of the kids. Dottie and Agnes have been the only townfolk to talk to the “real” Wanda as well as the sitcom Wanda. I don’t know what all that means but it is something.

    Wanda appeared to be trying to convince herself as much as the boys that she couldn’t bring back the dead. I presume that someone was trying to do that with Vision, hence her retrieving his body. Or the Big Bad wanted the body, controlled Wanda into getting it and her subconscious is fighting to protect the body, trapping it in this protective sitcom bubble. Now she is confused and wondering if she did resurrect him after all.

    We’ll skip right past the unintented implications of AI necrophilia…

    I love how much of the dialogue has dual meaning. Chief Agent Man tells Wanda she is holding the town hostage. She replies “I’m not the one holding the guns”. She knows on some level she isn’t really behind it all.

    Also interesting that Wanda can actually leave Westview and it remained intact while she was outside it.

    The Accords have a clause prohibiting bringing the dead back to life? They really covered a lot of ground. Was that negotiated in the Brexit agreement?

    Is this one of those times when the Avengers are all off world on other adventures?

    Kat Dennings likes coming up with cute names for things. Wanda has no known aliases. Hmm…

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  • #53471

    The Accords have a clause prohibiting bringing the dead back to life? They really covered a lot of ground. Was that negotiated in the Brexit agreement?

    Wait, the damn Sokovia Accords are still a thing?!

  • #53472

    We’ll skip right past the unintented implications of AI necrophilia…

    You’re no fun anymore.

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  • #53473

    he doesn’t count as being alive or dead because he’s a machine.

    that is what I thought. Vizh may be in for a rude awakening if he thinks she can not him. Pietro called Vizh a “popsicle” which is a synonym of corpse. Can he see through the illusion and sees a corpse rather than the Vision?

    I agree that there was not much progression but I enjoyed where Monica realizes her pants used to be a bulletproof vest and Darcy still gets the great lines.  The woman who gave us “Miou-Miou” gets to say “she recast Pietro” LOL :heart:

     

    #1 question: her bro is here now. How long until Dad shows up? What is Michael Fassbender doing these days?

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by Rocket.
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  • #53478

    She replies “I’m not the one holding the guns”.

    Interestingly she replies “I’m not the one holding the guns, Director”. She seems to know who he is although he never announces himself.

    I suppose she does have telepathic abilities that are a bit ill defined right now but he could also have been the guy holding Vision and experimenting on him when she stole the body away.

  • #53479

    Well now we know she brought the body to Westview… but that still doesn’t answer the big question: What the fuck was she doing there in the first place?

    I’m still seeing a ton of theories around Mephisto, this time Pietro being Mephisto, but I don’t think that’s what it is… I still think Wanda is really doing all of this, her power is getting out of control and her mind seems to be fractured, though we still don’t know why. Some people have mentioned Nightmare, and I guess that’s a more plausible villain to use instead of Mephisto.

    Also, what’s up with the dog? Something’s fishy with that dog… u_u

  • #53483

    Wanda appeared to be trying to convince herself as much as the boys that she couldn’t bring back the dead.

    Maybe whoever is controlling/influencing her is trying to push her to use her powers in that way for some reason.

  • #53484

    he could also have been the guy holding Vision and experimenting on him when she stole the body away.

    I assumed that was the case given all the talk earlier about him being in charge of all the AI stuff.

  • #53485

    #1 question: her bro is here now. How long until Dad shows up? What is Michael Fassbender doing these days?

    McKellen or bust.

  • #53492

    I’m not at all convinced that someone besides Wanda is doing this. When Monica describes what it felt like being under the spell she brings up grief as a main feeling. I don’t think it’s anything else than Wanda being consumed by grief, having lost everyone she ever cared for or shared a connection with. Creating a world where nothing happens without her say-so, where she gets to be in control rather than being a victim of circumstances, does seem perfectly in character for Wanda.

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  • #53496

    I thought it was all pretty tedious this week to be honest, with virtually no progression in the story.

    Huh? That’s a weird way of looking at it. I mean, Vision has woken up to the reality of the situation, and he has broken through to one of the residents of Westview. Wanda was attacked by Sword and has retaliated, breaking through to the outside and demonstrating that she is aware (by now?) of the world outside and of Sword, and also that she will take them out if she has to.
    Vision has confronted Wanda about the reality of the situation escalated the fight to the point where Wanda was losing control.
    And then Pietro showed up.

    I can’t imagine how more should have happened in the story in one episode; the plot progressed incredibly fast in this one.
    If that still feels like no progression to you, I don’t think this show will ever be for you, honestly, because you have very different expectations from what the show wants to do.

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  • #53498

    I’m not at all convinced that someone besides Wanda is doing this. When Monica describes what it felt like being under the spell she brings up grief as a main feeling. I don’t think it’s anything else than Wanda being consumed by grief, having lost everyone she ever cared for or shared a connection with. Creating a world where nothing happens without her say-so, where she gets to be in control rather than being a victim of circumstances, does seem perfectly in character for Wanda.

    Yup. And, I mean, that’s pretty much how it was in the comics, wasn’t it?

    Also, I kind of love how dark the shot has gotten at this point. The Vision trying to figure things out – and we know just how horrible the realisation that’s coming for him is going to be – the Pet Cemetary vibe with the dead dog, the way we are starting to see the actual suffering of everybody in Westview while Wanda is maintaining control of them… we’re moving past the Lynchian moments ofe dread in the first episodes and towards full-blown horror territory really. And the worst of all is that everything that is happening is caused by grief and PTSD. Imagining the reality of what Wanda is going through, and what she is going to have to go through once she has to let go of Westview and of her family, makes this as dark and horrifying as anything can be, really.

    I do wonder how they’re going to end this show because right now, I can’t see any options that wouldn’t be incredibly depressing.

  • #53504

    I do wonder how they’re going to end this show because right now, I can’t see any options that wouldn’t be incredibly depressing.

    Wanda was being controlled/influenced by someone else so it wasn’t her fault, and Vision is fully alive again by the end. And Monica is head of SWORD.

  • #53505

    Well now we know she brought the body to Westview… but that still doesn’t answer the big question: What the fuck was she doing there in the first place?

    I’m still seeing a ton of theories around Mephisto, this time Pietro being Mephisto, but I don’t think that’s what it is… I still think Wanda is really doing all of this, her power is getting out of control and her mind seems to be fractured, though we still don’t know why. Some people have mentioned Nightmare, and I guess that’s a more plausible villain to use instead of Mephisto.

    Also, what’s up with the dog? Something’s fishy with that dog… u_u

    I’m not familiar with the story but Sparky actually was a character from the comics. He was a dying dog whose brain was transplanted into a synthetic body by Vision in his own misbegotten effort to have a nice family life in the suburbs.

    These people have messed up back stories, even by Marvel Universe standards.

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  • #53506

    I do wonder how they’re going to end this show because right now, I can’t see any options that wouldn’t be incredibly depressing.

    It’ll end just like every single marvel comic ever:

    “To be continued”

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  • #53508

    Huh? That’s a weird way of looking at it. I mean, Vision has woken up to the reality of the situation, and he has broken through to one of the residents of Westview. Wanda was attacked by Sword and has retaliated, breaking through to the outside and demonstrating that she is aware (by now?) of the world outside and of Sword, and also that she will take them out if she has to. Vision has confronted Wanda about the reality of the situation escalated the fight to the point where Wanda was losing control. And then Pietro showed up. I can’t imagine how more should have happened in the story in one episode; the plot progressed incredibly fast in this one.

    We already knew Vision was becoming aware of the unreal nature of their lives, two episodes ago, and we knew that most of the Westview inhabitants were being controlled from last episode. We also knew that Wanda was aware of the outside world and didn’t want it encroaching on Westview from when she ejected Monica, two episodes ago. All of that stuff felt like showing us stuff we already knew, again, in a slightly different way.

    The fight with Vision and Pietro showing up were the parts that felt new, and all of that happened in the last five minutes. I felt like I sat through 30+ minutes of stuff I basically already knew to get to that point, and the Pietro moment wasn’t the “wow” moment for me that it seemed to be for a lot of people.

    (I hope it’s limited to just a fun bit of stunt casting, a nod and wink to the X-Men movies, rather than a big shift in story focus, because it feels like the last thing this show needs is more distractions from its core story.)

  • #53509

    Also, what’s up with the dog? Something’s fishy with that dog… u_u

    The dog was just an homage to Sparky, the Vision dog from the Tom King mini-series.

    5327076-sparky-001

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  • #53515

    We already knew Vision was becoming aware of the unreal nature of their lives, two episodes ago, and we knew that most of the Westview inhabitants were being controlled from last episode. We also knew that Wanda was aware of the outside world and didn’t want it encroaching on Westview from when she ejected Monica, two episodes ago. All of that stuff felt like showing us stuff we already knew, again, in a slightly different way.

    Yeah, and I think that’s what the show is going to keep doing – unrolling what has been hinted at from the start, slowly unravelling Wanda’s perfect little world until the final confrontation at the end when the house of cards comes tumbling down. If you’re waiting for unexpected twists and turns and big changes of setting and other huge leaps in the plot, I don’t think this show is going to give you that.

    Wanda was being controlled/influenced by someone else so it wasn’t her fault, and Vision is fully alive again by the end. And Monica is head of SWORD.

    I really hope that’s not what’s going to happen. I mean, I can totally see that that’d be the easy solution to everything, but it’d diminish the story gravely. Especially the first part. I could live with Vision being alive at the end (they were always going to revive him in some way), but if Wanda isn’t the one doing all of this, and doesn’t have to pay the price for it, the show will be far less meaningful to me than if it’s all her. Right now, it’s a story about grief and denial; I’d rather it say that than be about fighting the bad guy and achieving redemption.

  • #53518

    It can be two things. Someone else initiated a bad situation and Wanda is the only one who can stop it, although to do so she has to be willing to let the fantasy life go.

    I don’t know how well the hysterical woman who threatens the world because she can’t control her emotions would play these days.

  • #53519

    I don’t know how well the hysterical woman who threatens the world because she can’t control her emotions would play these days.

    This is exactly the reason I think it can’t be as straightforward as that. Given that we’ve already seen plenty of deaths in these movies, having Wanda be the crazy woman who breaks down and goes mad because she can’t control her emotions would feel like a bit of an outdated stereotype.

  • #53520

    Yeah, and I think that’s what the show is going to keep doing – unrolling what has been hinted at from the start, slowly unravelling Wanda’s perfect little world until the final confrontation at the end when the house of cards comes tumbling down. If you’re waiting for unexpected twists and turns and big changes of setting and other huge leaps in the plot, I don’t think this show is going to give you that.

    Which is fair enough, but it makes me wonder whether the story is really suited for the weekly television format in that case. If you’re not getting much progression week-to-week then you start to wonder why you’re putting that time into it for basically the same thing every episode, without fresh twists and developments.

    If the show wanted to be an examination of a single situation in that way then it might have been more fitting to do it as more of a feature-length single story (or at least dump all the episodes in one go), because it doesn’t feel there’s really enough to sustain it as a weekly episodic drama.

    Ironically it’s not that different a criticism from the Netflix Marvel shows – too repetitive and too overlong in terms of the number of episodes – but being a ‘true’ MCU series and the first one on Disney+ seems to have earned it it a bit of extra goodwill.

  • #53523

    having Wanda be the crazy woman who breaks down and goes mad because she can’t control her emotions would feel like a bit of an outdated stereotype.

    What about having Wanda be a crazy person rather than a crazy woman? Because, honestly, I hadn’t thought of her being a “hysterical woman stereotype” until you said so. Not that I deny the existence of that trope, it’s definitely real and harmful, if anything I’m a victim of my own bias – Not thinking of people as men or women but as people.

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  • #53524

    Ironically it’s not that different a criticism from the Netflix Marvel shows – too repetitive and too overlong in terms of the number of episodes – but being a ‘true’ MCU series and the first one on Disney+ seems to have earned it it a bit of extra goodwill.

    It’s earned good will from me because despite its faults – and I’ve said from the beginning that I thought it was self-indulgent – there’s more than enough in there to keep me guessing as to the outcome – and enjoy doing so. The fact that it can make a jaded, seen-it-all-before cynic like me this invested in fan-theorising is testament to what a good job I think they’ve done. And the ending of this week’s episode made my jaw hit the floor, which is a rare pleasure these days.

    As to whether or not it’s just Wanda doing this… I think she’s definitely being manipulated by an outside influence, but it’s a subtle influence, using her grief as a tool. It’s someone who needs her powers – and has possibly even made them grow beyond what she was originally capable of – in order to achieve their own ends.

    Whether that’s Mephisto, Enchantress, Nightmare, Ultron… :unsure:

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  • #53529

    Whether that’s Mephisto, Enchantress, Nightmare, Ultron… :unsure:

    Feige?

  • #53530

    Whether that’s Mephisto, Enchantress, Nightmare, Ultron… Feige?

    Zack Snyder is the real enemy. Always!

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  • #53533

    Which is fair enough, but it makes me wonder whether the story is really suited for the weekly television format in that case. If you’re not getting much progression week-to-week then you start to wonder why you’re putting that time into it for basically the same thing every episode, without fresh twists and developments.

    Depends on the viewer, I suppose? Personally, I love it and I don’t want anything different from it.

    This is exactly the reason I think it can’t be as straightforward as that. Given that we’ve already seen plenty of deaths in these movies, having Wanda be the crazy woman who breaks down and goes mad because she can’t control her emotions would feel like a bit of an outdated stereotype.

    That’s a fair point. Like Anders, I didn’t even consider it, but yeah, I can see how that’s a tough sell. And I suppose revealing a big bad behind it all is too great a temptation anyways; this is still superhero show after all.

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  • #53538

    Ironically it’s not that different a criticism from the Netflix Marvel shows – too repetitive and too overlong in terms of the number of episodes – but being a ‘true’ MCU series and the first one on Disney+ seems to have earned it it a bit of extra goodwill.

    I don’t see that at all. If you take out the incredibly long credits the episodes have been as short as 21 minutes. So you are just about up to the content of 2 episodes of a Netflix Marvel show. In that time there’s been a lot of plot, especially in the last 2 episodes.

    To me I think the difference is simpler, some of the audience have time for the sitcom conceit and some really don’t like it and that’s the divider in the responses. I think it’s important to spend some time in that world or it means nothing when it unravels.

    We get the accusation of MCU ‘loyalty’ fairly often (usually when it comes to DC films rather than other Marvel product) but I’m not sure it really stands up, people have always been happy to call out if they make a stinker like Thor: The Dark World or Iron Man 2. I’m just genuinely really enjoying this show but it is different and may not be for everyone.

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  • #53554

    Impossible to say I suppose, but if this had come out on Netflix and been about characters not from the movies I’m not sure it would have been as well received. I’m not talking about “loyalty” or bias but the novelty of having cinema characters and actors in a prestigious show like this  which I think is elevating the material to some extent.

    That’s not really anything to do with my other problems with the show though. I agree it’s polarising and largely down to how much tolerance you have for all the stuff that doesn’t really move things forward but builds out that sitcom world.

  • #53569

    i thought about McKellen but with the state of the World, I did not want him to risk it.

     

    As for the scene where Wanda exited Westview and confronted Sword, she doesn’t appear to listen to them. Why wouldn’t they get in touch with someone that Wanda would listen to.

    There is unfortunately not too many Avengers left. Being on the run with Cap, She may have gotten to know T’challa well but real world tragedy prevents that.  Is Hawkeye currently on the run? He got through to Wanda in Age of Ultron maybe he could do it again here.

  • #53576

    I really appreciated the theme song for this episode, and thought the “Can’t I?” [roll credits] scene was great.

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  • #53598

    My personal wish is for Harry Lloyd’s Professor Xavier to show up.

    If they really wanted to go X-Men multiversal with the big bad, I’d go with Navid Negahban‘s Shadow King.

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  • #53606

    There is unfortunately not too many Avengers left. Being on the run with Cap, She may have gotten to know T’challa well but real world tragedy prevents that.  Is Hawkeye currently on the run?

    That’s why I was saying earlier on that I hoped Hawkeye would show up… he’s really the only one left she has a connection with.

    I do agree that it’s hard to imagine Wanda being the sole “villain” here, because I don’t know if Marvel wants to go that way… but hey, who knows, we might be witnessing a villain origin story… I mean, they could be setting her up to be the phase 4 villain (or one of them). Maybe she’ll show up in Doc Strange 2 as a villain… :unsure:

    Also, re: the dog… I meant that the way it “died” was fishy, that whole scene with Agness getting the dog from the bushes was weird, like she was actually doing something with the dog.

  • #53612

    If they really wanted to go X-Men multiversal with the big bad, I’d go with Navid Negahban‘s Shadow King.

    Oh that’s a big FUCK YES! for me. I could totally get behind that even if it didn’t make much sense =P

    Hell bring David into it as well… he could also make for a great villain.

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  • #53644

    As to whether or not it’s just Wanda doing this… I think she’s definitely being manipulated by an outside influence, but it’s a subtle influence, using her grief as a tool. It’s someone who needs her powers – and has possibly even made them grow beyond what she was originally capable of – in order to achieve their own ends.

    True. When Vision freed Norm from the influence, he didn’t say “Wanda,” he said “She” or “her.” So that’s an interesting bit of ambiguity. Agnes pulled the “out of character” bit in front of Wanda AND Vision so it could be intentional on her part to set suspicions in Vision against Wanda who might have been genuinely confused. Even in her confrontation with SWORD, she didn’t quite seem to understand what she was doing or why. Wanda is being set up as the villain but at the same time, in terms of plotting, this is too early in a mystery story to reveal the villain. She would be the red herring… or Scarlet Herring, in this case.

    Some nice touches in this one though like the slightly red tint on reflective surfaces that you’d see on an old TV set that was tuned a bit to bright. Was the dog something from the Visions comics series? Also, we’ve had hints of the old Vision villain The Grim Reaper. However, he doesn’t really fit in with the movies’ storylines since he is Simon Williams’ brother and has no connection to the Vision in the movies.

    Also, even though Peitro was recast as another actor who played Quicksilver, that doesn’t mean this is the new Quicksilver. He could be a completely new character (though that would be confusing) who is in on whatever is going on behind the scenes. The missing witness is still a question but if he was important then you’d think they would already know that. After all, Jimmy knows who the witness is, but not where he (or she)is. Unless they have the power to change shape (skrull) or control minds.

    also… Agnes killed Sparky, right?

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  • #53648

    She would be the red herring… or Scarlet Herring, in this case.

    I hope this is what Darcy ultimately christens her.

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  • #53650

    True. When Vision freed Norm from the influence, he didn’t say “Wanda,” he said “She” or “her.” So that’s an interesting bit of ambiguity. Agnes pulled the “out of character” bit in front of Wanda AND Vision so it could be intentional on her part to set suspicions in Vision against Wanda who might have been genuinely confused.

    Good points both. Yeah, I could see that.

    Was the dog something from the Visions comics series?

    They did have a dog in the Tom King series.

    There is unfortunately not too many Avengers left. Being on the run with Cap, She may have gotten to know T’challa well but real world tragedy prevents that.  Is Hawkeye currently on the run? He got through to Wanda in Age of Ultron maybe he could do it again here.

    Well, theoretically there are quite a few left they could call in. But “Far from Home” post-credits scene suggested they’re currently in space with Nick Fury (and nobody knows they are). It would probably have been a good idea to have a line of dialogue explaining why they haven’t called them in though.

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  • #53652

    Was the dog something from the Visions comics series?

    Yes, Vision created Sparky for his suburban dream in the Tom King mini series. The story there was the dog died and he placed its brain into a synthezoid dog body so the ‘back from the dead’ theme is there although so far a quite different story.

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  • #53654

    I was really impressed with the moments in the Hex

    Ah, you called it the Hex. It’s catching on.

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  • #53655

    If they really wanted to go X-Men multiversal with the big bad, I’d go with Navid Negahban‘s Shadow King.

    Love him, but Farouk had his ending and I’d rather leave they left it at that.

    …hey, I’m looking at his bio, and I didn’t realise Negahban lived in Berlin for years. He’s still being represented by a German agency. Huh.

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  • #53707

    Good points both. Yeah, I could see that.

    The section where Wanda breaks into SWORD to retrieve Vision’s body is also a bit weird.

    First, in Vision’s will apparently – according to Jimmy Woo – he did not want to be resurrected as a weapon. However, why didn’t anyone point out that SWORD (the SW stands for Sentient Weapons) was studying his dissected body for just such a purpose also against his will? I mean, that all happened in the same scene. Jimmy says Vision did not want to be turned into a weapon, and then they show a video of SWORD trying to turn Vision into many weapons, apparently.

    Second, how did Wanda find out about it? What led her to that lab?

    Third, why isn’t anyone asking why WandaVision, the show, is changing and progressing by decades? If Wanda simply wanted to live in a perfect suburban fantasy of wedded bliss and comedy, why isn’t she sticking to just one version? Instead, the show is moving forward to what is obviously both an inescapable endpoint – unless she plans to create a live action Jetsons version set in the future – and doing things that create increasing instability in the fantasy by changing formats making it harder to sustain the illusion?

    Finally, who sang the sappy intro the show? She had to find someone to sing and record that.

    Also, the email from Darcy is strange. It’s not confirmed in the “real world” that Darcy did it and how did Vision know to do the energy transfer trick from the computer to free Norm?

     

     

  • #53711

    Getting darker and more ominous now, but still can’t tell how they ‘re going to resolve – there’s a lot of pitfalls on this:

    – “Woman taps into power that sends her nuts” – not a good look.

    – But neither is letting Wanda off if she is behind it.

    So, something else is needed, will they have that waiting in the wings? I think so.

  • #53714

    Third, why isn’t anyone asking why WandaVision, the show, is changing and progressing by decades?

    Darcy asked that in episode 4. She concluded, “it can’t just be for my amusement, can it?”

    And just because SWORD had Vision’s body, doesn’t mean they were trying to weaponise it.

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  • #53718

    And just because SWORD had Vision’s body, doesn’t mean they were trying to weaponise it.

    Steve is a SWORD shill!

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  • #53719

    why isn’t anyone asking why WandaVision, the show, is changing and progressing by decades?

    That was what started the argument between Wanda and Vision. She says she is going to bed and Vision tried to stop her because he realizes when she wakes up in the morning, time has jumped. Steve is right about outside of Westview, Darcy notices the change, but inside of the show Vision is noticing and it could get tragic if Wanda gets upset and returns him to his inert state.

    The Sword chief is probably lying about Wanda’s motives in stealing Vision’s body. She may have been rescuing him from being experimented on by the Sword scientists rather than stealing his body because she is mad with grief. I can’t explain what happened between the lab and Westview and why Vision is alive again.

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  • #53721

    And just because SWORD had Vision’s body, doesn’t mean they were trying to weaponise it.

    I wondered about that, but they weren’t simply storing his body. They had a team of scientists taking it apart – he was all over several tables in the shot. And since “Weapon” is part of their name, I think Wanda probably did take it, not to resurrect him, but to ensure his will was carried out.

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  • #53723

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  • #54872

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  • #55137

    Did Wanda just go full House of M..?

    Nice FX work on decaying Vision. :good:

    And to think people thought Mephisto would look silly in the MCU…

    Untitled-1

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  • #55148

    Well it did stop at some point, so no, not fully… But it looks like that’s a possibility at this point.

    So we’re on episode 6, with 3 more to go and I still really don’t see how there’s an “evil” outside influence pushing Wanda to do this… I mean, if by now they haven’t introduced that element, it’ll feel pretty gimmicky if they do something like that in the last 2 episodes =/

    I guess they can still do it in the next episode, but this episode, once more, reinforced the idea that this is all really Wanda’s doing. Even Agness was completely frozen, which wouldn’t really be the case if she was behind this.

    It also looks like they’re all existing in a weird state we’re they’r both semi-conscious and semi-zombified, including Wanda. Also, nice to see that Pietro addressed the “children” issue… Speaking of which, wait… so did I understand correctly and this IS the MCU Pietro but he’s wearing the Foxmen Pietro’s face (making it indeed a cute cameo)? ‘Cause that’s what I got out of him this episode… :unsure:

    And it looks like the “world” inside the hex is getting more and more unstable… Vision is basically out of the “spell” and it would seem both kids and Pietro never were in the first place. And somehow I doubt it’s gonna get better by expanding it.

    Is Darcy getting superpowers? What should she get? =P

    And about Vision… well it seems he’s mostly a fabrication, yet he’s very much independent from Wanda’s will… So I’m having a new theory:

    What if this is all happening because Wanda actually absorbed Vision’s essence when she killed him in IW? Maybe it’s just too much and having him inside her head is making her and her powers go crazy… Maybe she just really needs to flush Vision’s consciousness out of hers and that’s why she took the body. Maybe this Ralph (who is probably the witsec guy) is indeed being forced to repair Vision’s body, because the one that got out of the hex was definetly not a “real” body, it didn’t look like the fucked up pieces she grabbed from Sword…

    Well, that’s my working theory right now. I’m really gonna hate this show if it ends up being just a way of bringing back Tommy and Billy into the MCU while they kill Wanda and leave Vision and Pietro dead… =/

    Oh and lastly… nice wink to Kick Ass… not very subtle, but hey =P

  • #55189

    Again, barely any real progression in the overall story this week, and even the parody aspect of the show felt a bit half-arsed – I like Malcolm In The Middle a lot but this didn’t even nail the superficial aspects once you got past the title sequence.

    At least it’s looking like the stunt casting is no more than that – although Pietro’s references to their parents and upbringing did have me concerned they were going to start bringing in Magneto or something.

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  • #55194

    Dave’s response continues to amuse me here. I’ve barely seen a show in years that has generated so much chat and excitement and the very short episodes to me have a fast plot progression.

    This is part of my non-Carrier chat:

    As I said on Twitter earlier, the weekly nature of this experience and these discussions are inherently part of the experience for me. I think at this point even if I could watch the rest in one go I wouldn’t. Also, in three weeks time we lose that forever and I certainly don’t want that day to come any sooner than it has to.

     

    Not everything is for everyone I guess.

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  • #55196

    Is WandaVision Hinting at the Next Big Bad of the Marvel Universe? We Think So!

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by JRCarter.
  • #55198

    And to think people thought Mephisto would look silly in the MCU…

    I read your post before viewing and I legit thought Mephisto was going to show up. Reverse-spoilered. I like it.

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  • #55203

    Dave’s response continues to amuse me here. I’ve barely seen a show in years that has generated so much chat and excitement and the very short episodes to me have a fast plot progression.

    Yeah, and as you can imagine I’m equally bewildered by people who are finding stuff to get excited about every episode.

    I guess if you’re invested in all the MCU continuity stuff it maybe means more to you – but for me, as a story in its own right, there’s just so little to get hold of.

    To me the show is incredibly repetitive and just keeps restating its basic premise and pretending it counts as story development.

    But I’m glad some people are finding enjoyment in it at least. It’s clearly not for me and I’m basically watching it to get to the end of it on a sunk cost basis now.

  • #55210

    Well, I do enjoy a mystery and I love speculating and the guessing game and all that… and I do find the show very enjoyable overall, but I kinda have to agree with Dave to a certain extent… it IS repetitive and the pace could be a lot tighter… but hey, as long as they stick the landing, I’m good.

  • #55222

    My goodness, that Scarlet Witch costume…

    I do hope that this is not all because of Chief Agent Bossface doing some evil scheming. It feels like the MCU has gone down the “shenanigans at the shadowy government agency” route too many times already.

    Ditto for people “hacking through firewalls” to uncover plot information. Even more so when the character is meant to be an astrophysicist, not a computer genius.

    I’m still leaning towards Mephisto as the real big bad. Wanda has said many times that she doesn’t know how this started or how she can do it. A deal with the devil? Pietro says Westview is “charming as hell” – phrasing. Faust made his deal with Mephistopheles at a crossroads and that’s where Vision encounters Agnes on the way out of town. Wanda is perpetuating the fantasy but someone else has initiated it. Eventually she’ll have to decide to let it go, probably after a heart to heart with Vision, and confront whatever started this.

    It seems like Pietro is the Fox version of the character but with the MCU version’s memories imperfectly laid on top. When he turned up last week the SWORD alarms went off, which they seem to do whenever something crosses the Westview border. The dude came from somewhere.

    Wanda spoke of nothingness and being alone… is she talking about her grief or her time being snapped, I mean, blipped? Nobody else appears to remember any of the time that they were away but perhaps with her Mind Stone powers she does. That would certainly mess a person up.

    Apparently young Wanda and Pietro in the flashback scene were wearing Black Widow and Nick Fury costumes. Cute touch.

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  • #55224

    Even more so when the character is meant to be an astrophysicist, not a computer genius.

    Wasn’t Darcy’s Jane’s tech girl/assistant originally? I kinda remember Jane saying she was crap at computers… I mean, she’s obviously not a moron despite her attitude, ’cause she did become an expert astophysicist since we last saw her.

    I really wish the show was a bit more consistent… because Monica kept her hex clothes, but vision can’t survive out of it… Monica seems to be getting power because she’s crossing, but I don’t think Darcy will… etc…

     

  • #55230

  • #55238

    Well, I do enjoy a mystery and I love speculating and the guessing game and all that… and I do find the show very enjoyable overall, but I kinda have to agree with Dave to a certain extent… it IS repetitive and the pace could be a lot tighter… but hey, as long as they stick the landing, I’m good.

    I think really though it’s the nature of what is a mystery show, which this was fairly clearly going to be from the preview material. You tease extra bits of information out each episode and then eventually get to a final reveal. Where they often fail is in spinning wheels in that process (Lost as the perfect example where you waited 50 episodes to find out the polar bear is on a tropical island because they were held in a research station) but I don’t think Wandavision is doing that at all, every episode you get to know more and as it’s short episodes there’s little standing around admiring the scenery.

    They could have told us all by episode 3 I suppose but then that’s a different show and in my mind probably a less effective one but I like mystery shows. You need to establish Wanda’s world for the cracks in it to have any narrative impact.

    He’s probably right that the various mysteries have less impact divorced from the MCU but that’s the context in which they are making it, where that world has a huge mainstream following. It also actually moves it along because concepts and characters we already know are just dropped in so the ‘origin’ of Monica Rambeau is all done in just over 5 minutes of screen time.

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  • #55245

    I don’t think Wandavision is doing that at all, every episode you get to know more and as it’s short episodes there’s little standing around admiring the scenery.

    See, I feel very different here. Half of the episode is still sitcom parody stuff (like this episode’s riffing on Malcolm in the Middle) and they spend a fair amount of time on that story within a story. And it largely feels like a waste of time that really is the show spinning its wheels and doing the parody for its own sake – standing around admiring the scenery, as you say.

    In terms of learning more about the “what’s really going on” plot it largely seems to be showing the same thing in different ways. So this episode’s big climax is Vision knowing that something is up and trying to break free of it but getting pulled back into the unreality by Wanda – but we’ve been seeing variations on that exact thing ever since episode three.

    The biggest thing that seemed to happen this episode was Wanda making the physical area covered by the unreality bubble a little bigger (pulling in some of the SWORD guys) but that’s a bit of a “so what?” to me. None of it really pushes the mystery or the relationships forwards. Darcy going in could be interesting but that’s very much just a teaser for next week.

    And Emma Caulfield’s character (who we were told was very important in episode 2) seems to have disappeared.

    Aside from some vague allusions to hell and demons in Quicksilver’s dialogue (which might just be red herring puns) I don’t think we’re really any closer towards knowing anything about anything after this episode.

    (Admittedly this might be a problem with a show based around a fake reality – it’s difficult to care about stuff like the kids using powers because it’s effectively all just part of the same not-real landscape we’ve been aware of since the beginning.)

    The episodes are about 25-30 minutes (once you strip out the ridiculously long credits), but they manage to make it feel like you’re getting about 5 minutes of story each time.

    Who knows, maybe the end of the story will pull off a brilliant reveal that ties together lots of stuff we aren’t expecting and makes all those weeks of fan speculation worth it.

    But my experience with these shows that rely on the audience doing the work to fill in the gaps in between episodes and driving the show through fevered weekly speculation is that they often struggle to live up to that element of fan expectation – think Lost, X-Files, Battlestar, GoT, and a lot of other shows with a strong mystery element that couldn’t stick the landing.

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  • #55252

    You’re right about those shows but they were also shows that were strung along for several years of full length seasons without any defined end point in mind, so they never quite knew how much to reveal and when, then by the end had created so many loose ends it was impossible to tie them all up.

    So far as I know Wandavision has always been planned as 9 episodes and that’s that. With the MCU track record that’s been established I do give them the benefit of the doubt that they’ll stick the landing.

    May well be proven wrong, of course.

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  • #55253

    Well at least we can agree on one thing – the credits are ridiculously long.

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  • #55255

    You’re right about those shows but they were also shows that were strung along for several years of full length seasons without any defined end point in mind, so they never quite knew how much to reveal and when, then by the end had created so many loose ends it was impossible to tie them all up.

    So far as I know Wandavision has always been planned as 9 episodes and that’s that. With the MCU track record that’s been established I do give them the benefit of the doubt that they’ll stick the landing.

    May well be proven wrong, of course.

    Yeah that’s fair. That should help it avoid falling into those traps if it’s been designed as a tight one-season mystery.

    I still think there’s a danger of nothing living up to fan speculation, but hopefully it should go out on its own terms rather than running until it doesn’t have anything left like some of those shows.

  • #55256

    Out of interest (and because I don’t move in those circles), what are the elements from this week’s episode that the speculating fans see as the exciting moments – the parts that move things forward, develop the mystery and provide fodder for more speculation over what’s really going on?

    I can see people wondering about what Darcy will become inside the bubble, but beyond that I’m genuinely stumped as to what new information we have.

    (I can see why last episode’s cliffhanger would lead to such rampant speculation about the X-Men movies, for example, which I’m guessing was the basis for a lot of it last week.)

    I find it genuinely interesting that there are such opposing opinions on this show and I’m interested in “getting” the appeal from the other side – and the weekly speculation seems to be a big part of that.

  • #55257

    It was lighter on that stuff than previous episodes but things still happened.

    Vision is done playing the sitcom dad and has seen the world outside the Hex, as has one of the kids. Darcy learned that Special Agent Plotman was secretly tracking Vision for some reason (and they surely must have Darcy as a broke waitress in the next episode). Monica and Jimmy were let go from the investigation and are going it alone, arranging to meet their own contact. Monica learned that the Hex changed her cellular structure. Wanda showed she has the power to expand the Hex but confirmed she doesn’t know how it started. Pietro confirmed that he knows he’s in a fake environment but was enjoying it (for the time being, being blasted by Wanda may well change his mind). Agnes definitively framed Wanda as the source of it all to Vision, plus told him he was an Avenger and dead (it remains to be seen if she can be trusted and what he will do with the information). We learned that there actually are not any children in the town, Wanda just added them for the Halloween special.

    So, yeah, bits and pieces. We’ll see where they take them and which prove to be important by the end.

    This sort of mystery show must generate a lot of chat online, which is the sort of thing that companies like Disney yearn for these days.

     

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  • #55258

    and they surely must have Darcy as a broke waitress in the next episode

    They fuckin better…

  • #55260

    So, yeah, bits and pieces. We’ll see where they take them and which prove to be important by the end.

    This sort of mystery show must generate a lot of chat online, which is the sort of thing that companies like Disney yearn for these days.

    Thanks. That helps me to understand the kind of progression that people are looking at when they’re talking about each episode pushing the story forward. I think I’m more focused on the core relationship and “what’s going on?” mystery rather than the stuff that’s happening around the edges.

    I agree that Disney must be very happy with people discussing this week-to-week. As we’ve talked about before I think it shows the value to them of not following the Netflix ‘dump’ model – not just to stop people watching it all for a single month of the subscription fee, but also keeping it part of that cultural conversation.

    If they had dumped it all in one go, five weeks ago, we would have all long moved on by now.

  • #55261

    I agree that Disney must be very happy with people discussing this week-to-week. As we’ve talked about before I think it shows the value to them of not following the Netflix ‘dump’ model – not just to stop people watching it all for a single month of the subscription fee, but also keeping it part of that cultural conversation. If they had dumped it all in one go, five weeks ago, we would have all long moved on by now.

    See? That’s why Snyder is such a valuable asset… 10 years from now people will still be debating whether MoS, BvS and the Snyder cut were shit or not :rose:

    I agree that Wandavision works very well in the weekly format… but I still have my doubts that Falcon & WS will work as well as this… somehow I don’t see that show having the same “mystery” elements like this one does that drives so much speculation.

  • #55262

    Yeah, I must admit it is kind of nice to have a new episode to look forward to on the same day each week.

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  • #55263

    I agree that Disney must be very happy with people discussing this week-to-week. As we’ve talked about before I think it shows the value to them of not following the Netflix ‘dump’ model – not just to stop people watching it all for a single month of the subscription fee, but also keeping it part of that cultural conversation. If they had dumped it all in one go, five weeks ago, we would have all long moved on by now.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Netflix switch some shows to a weekly format in future. There must be a huge marketing benefit to having these things dominate the cultural landscape for weeks on end, rather than having them fade after a week or so.

    Recently Channel 4 have adopted the Netflix “dump” model, putting their entire series on All4 on the day the series premieres on TV. They did it with the Mitchell & Webb vehicle, “Back” recently, and I noticed there are a bunch of other shows that haven’t aired on TV yet but are all available online. Seems like a bad idea to me.

  • #55264

    Yeah, the BBC have done that for a while too, on iplayer. Not sure it works as it effectively creates a two-speed system for watching the show and potentially fractures the following and conversation around it.

  • #55265

    I agree that Wandavision works very well in the weekly format… but I still have my doubts that Falcon & WS will work as well as this… somehow I don’t see that show having the same “mystery” elements like this one does that drives so much speculation.

    Potentially, but then something like 24 (which was a fairly straightforward action series) managed to be king of the cliffhanger even without a similar overarching mystery element (it did have mysteries, but not a mystery at the heart of the whole thing like Wandavision). It’s definitely possible to keep people hanging on week-to-week even with a more straightforward concept.

  • #55267

    I’ve maintained for a while that when it comes to the profile and engagement with a show I see no benefits to the ‘dump’ model at all.

    I accept it’s a preference for many, including me quite often, I watched all 5 episodes of ‘It’s a Sin’ over 2 days in the last week. From a business perspective though any show I watch now I would on a weekly cadence, the series dump model isn’t bringing me in to a show. It’s a differentiator Netflix brought in and steadfastly keep to but a lot of their shows appear and disappear with little coverage while Wandavision is trending on Twitter every Friday.

    Unless everyone binges a whole series first day you are always out of synch so if you really prefer that method you can just wait for the series to finish and do it (which is where the term came to exist anyway with DVD box sets).

    In case we’re thinking it’s old man syndrome from a guy who remembers when there were only 3 channels I see the same with my kids. A new series drops on Netflix and they binge it but equally when Doctor Who is on they badger me for when the next episode comes out and look forward to it all week.

    I’ll concede maybe dropping 2-3 episodes to get past the setup and into the meat of the show (like we discussed with The Expanse) can have advantages but beyond that I understand fully why Disney + and CBS All Access etc aren’t following the model, there’s no huge point to it.

  • #55424

    unknown-wandavision

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  • #55428

    I’m tempted to, and you know it. Really, really tempted.

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  • #55429

    God of War art director Raf Grassetti did this piece depicting Mephisto, based on Evan Peters:

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  • #55432

    I did a double-take at that armrest.

  • #55434

    unknown-wandavision

    I fully expect that by the end of the show, Wanda and/or Vision will say to themselves “am I right? Am I wrong?” and ask themselves “my God, what have I done?!”

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  • #55436

    God of War art director Raf Grassetti did this piece depicting Mephisto, based on Evan Peters:

    That looks like Pennywise… =/

  • #55437

    U Talkin’ Talking Heads 2 My Talking Head?

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  • #55660

  • #55718

    Ok brace yourself, but I actually quite enjoyed this episode.

    It delivers on some of the conflicts and confrontations and genuine character/story developments that it’s been dancing around for the past few weeks, and I liked the sense of things fraying at the edges with the various glitches and inconsistencies in the reality of Westview.

    Plus, some of the humour was actually funny! The extended bit at the crossroads with the constant obstacles was quite amusing and well done.

    And there was plenty of Kathryn Hahn, who is pretty much the best thing in the show.

    I thought the final few minutes were genuinely creepy in a way that the show hasn’t felt for me before, and the ultimate reveal was really well done and a lot of fun.

    It’s taken too long to get to this point, but this episode makes it feel like the show is finally going somewhere.

  • #55722

    The thing is, the reveal here probably wouldn’t have worked if it wasn’t for all the build-up. Save for maybe dropping one of the first two episodes, every part so far has added something, expanded something or moved the plot along. If you didn’t do something of a slow burn, the creeping horror elements of the show would have overpowered the narrative about personal tragedy and coming to terms with loss.

    Also, just checking people know there’s a mid-credits scene this week?

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  • #55723

    The thing is, the reveal here probably wouldn’t have worked if it wasn’t for all the build-up. Save for maybe dropping one of the first two episodes, every part so far has added something, expanded something or moved the plot along.

    I don’t want to rehash all the previous conversation, but there’s obviously a difference of opinion on that. For me, a lot of that development has been little more than restating aspects of the show that we’re already familiar with – Agatha’s character for example has been fairly repetitive from episode to episode in terms of her appearances – so for me it was nice to see the show finally ‘reveal’ what a lot of people have been assuming about her since episode one, and actually get on with it. Similar with stuff like Vision’s realisation that the world isn’t real or the stuff about the townspeople being under Wanda’s spell.

    It’s important to acknowledge the subjectivity of all this though. If the show has managed to grab you in the early stages and get you to invest in the Wanda/Vision relationship then a lot of the smaller additions each episode are going to be more meaningful and interesting to you and you’ll feel like you’re getting more out of it.

    But if you’re struggling to invest in the show on that level then it’s going to feel more like fiddling around the edges and a lack of forward momentum.

    It’s been interesting watching the Watchmen TV series at the same time as this show, because that was also a nine-episode mystery but one that was far more complex and ambitious, and every episode gave you lots of new information that completely recontextualised what you had seen before and made you understand the story from a whole new angle, while still driving the overall plot forwards. So it’s not like big mystery shows like this have to hold all their reveals until the late stages and only give up minor new developments until then.

    In comparison, Wandavision has often felt like it’s offering a few crumbs every week, but nothing really new in the grand scheme of things.

    But again, maybe that’s partly due to me not engaging with those smaller character moments because the early episodes of the show didn’t get me on board as intended.

  • #55725

    Also, just checking people know there’s a mid-credits scene this week?

    Yeah, I saw that – it did feel like Quicksilver had been oddly absent from the episode this week, and I thought they were building up to more of a reveal on that, so it was a surprise to see him just turn up again here.

  • #55728

    I’m going to be singing the Agatha theme-tune all day long.

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  • #55730

    Meh, I didn’t like this one at all…

    The gag with the blocked road was… not funny… but whatever… The episode in general was super slow, this one I think felt the most filler of them all.

    I guess the big reveal was what people were guessing, although IIRC it mostly came out of a spoiler from the show’s credits or something… I’m not a fan of it, but I suppose they needed a villain, because otherwise, although more interesting, turning Wanda into the villain wouldn’t be a very Disney thing to do.

    I didn’t like that whole Agatha Harkness bit at the end… it was super hockey and kinda broke the seriousness of the situation. That’s a very MCU thing to do, undercut the tension with a joke, something that I’m personally very very very tired of, I mean, it fits better within the context of this show, but still… are we supposed to take her seriously, or as a serious threat after that “intro”? I dunno, it just didn’t work for me… u_u

    The Monica thing was super telegraphed so whatever… cool I guess… I hope she replaces Captain Woodplank. And her “friend” turned out to be a no one with an unhelpful solution… so much for people speculating about it being Reed Richards, Amadeus Cho or whomever else.

    But the most infuriating thing BY FAR is: They didn’t turn Darcy into a broke waitress inside the Hex… shame Wandavision, SHAME!!!!

    Well I guess with only 2 episodes left we should start finally getting some answers… the big AH reveal still doesn’t explain shit… let’s hope they nail the landing…

    Oh last thing: Anyone knows what the whole “Nexus” thing in the commercial is a reference to? This is the first one I was clueless about…

  • #55732

    Oh last thing: Anyone knows what the whole “Nexus” thing in the commercial is a reference to? This is the first one I was clueless about…

    It’s probably a reference to the Nexus of All Realities, a gateway to infinite dimensions, which for some reason Man-Thing is the guardian of (I believe the Earth 616 gateway is in the Florida swamps – maybe in the MCU it’s in the basement of a witches house in suburbia.)

    It’s been a part of Marvel lore for decades – Doctor Strange banished the Hulk there when he became fully savage years ago, for instance.

    Twitter chatter seems to believe Mephisto is behind things, because before Wanda went into the basement, the camera zoomed in on a fly, which apparently is how Mephisto first appeared.

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  • #55733

    It’s probably a reference to the Nexus of All Realities, a gateway to infinite dimensions, which for some reason Man-Thing is the guardian of (I believe the Earth 616 gateway is in the Florida swamps – maybe in the MCU it’s in the basement of a witches house in suburbia.) It’s been a part of Marvel lore for decades – Doctor Strange banished the Hulk there when he became fully savage years ago, for instance. Twitter chatter seems to believe Mephisto is behind things, because before Wanda went into the basement, the camera zoomed in on a fly, which apparently is how Mephisto first appeared.

    Ohh nice! I didn’t know any of that, thanks!

    Well, at this point they might as well go with Mephisto, but they better have an air-tight narrative for it all because I feel they haven’t seeded him AT ALL so far… at least with Agness they did… somewhat… oh well, we’ll see… :unsure:

  • #55735

    I guess the big reveal was what people were guessing, although IIRC it mostly came out of a spoiler from the show’s credits or something…

    I saw the speculation when the first trailers came out due to the colour scheme of some of her clothes, her being dressed as a witch etc.

    I think it was set up fairly well in terms of her previous actions (and interactions) in the show.

    Presumably next episode will get into the whys of it all.

  • #55736

    I didn’t like that whole Agatha Harkness bit at the end… it was super hockey and kinda broke the seriousness of the situation. That’s a very MCU thing to do, cut the tension with a joke, something that I’m personally very very very tired of, I mean, it fits better withing the context of this show, but still… are we supposed to take her seriously, or as a serious threat after that “intro”? I dunno, it just didn’t work for me… u_u

    I liked it, but then I’ve always liked Hahn and enjoyed seeing her have fun with it.

    It was also a good way of showing her taking over the TV show aspect, and suggests that she’s been behind the whole concept of turning reality into a TV show and broadcasting it outside Westview. Again, presumably we’ll find out more about exactly why she’s done all this next episode.

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