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The Dutch high council of law recently made euthanasia in cases of dementia legal by refusing to prosecute a doctor who euthanized a patient for this reason. At the patient’s request obviously.

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They’ve been discussing assisted suicide here, too, recently. Legalisation of this is coming, I think, unavoidably. The question is just when.

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Todd

It’s a joke that it isn’t already in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Just fit it into Article 3.

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Todd, Christian

Dementia was just iffy because it is often a written request that is made earlier, the patient at the time the euthansia is to be carried out mostly isn’t capable of expressing the wish in verbal speech anymore because they lost the mental competence. I think this was true in this case

 

Euthanasia technically was already legal here, it is now that the exact instances in which it is allowed are being specified. There has to be intolerable suffering with no hope for improvement. There was also a case of euthanasia for depression a couple of years ago that was very contentious. However I know psychiatrists have assisted patients (illegally) with assisted suicide for a long time.

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Todd

It’s a tricky area as you need everything to be absolutely certain. As you say in the case of dementia or mental impairment it’s hard to justify without the prior written statement.

It’s something I support but needs to be very rigorously managed with checks and balances.

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Todd

The whole problem with euthanasia I think is that it drags an innocent doctor into a moral quandary. I just think suicide should be easier. You want out? Take this little pill everyone can get at the pharmacy.

 

Covid 19 has convinced me I never ever want to go into an old folks home. When the sniffles go round they make you a prisoner.

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Todd

Anonymous wrote:

Covid 19 has convinced me I never ever want to go into an old folks home. When the sniffles go round they make you a prisoner.

When we were teenagers, a friend said that when he turned 75, he was going to take LSD everyday.

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Anonymous wrote:

I just think suicide should be easier. You want out? Take this little pill everyone can get at the pharmacy.

That’s tricky too in itself though because a feeling of worthlessness can be so temporary.

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Sean Robinson, Will_C, Andrew, Todd

garjones wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I just think suicide should be easier. You want out? Take this little pill everyone can get at the pharmacy.

That’s tricky too in itself though because a feeling of worthlessness can be so temporary.

True.

 

I knew one man who threw himself in front of the train and survived. It’s not pretty. It’s a tough issue. I have often wished suicide would be easier, but I know it might not be a great idea.

 

 

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Todd

Well this isn’t something you see every day:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/z3bjpj/amazon-vp-tim-bray-resigns-calls-company-chickenshit-for-firing-protesting-workers

Tim Bray, a well known senior engineer and Vice President at Amazon has “quit in dismay” because Amazon has been “firing whistleblowers who were making noise about warehouse employees frightened of Covid-19.” In an open letter on his website, Bray, who has worked at the company for nearly six years, called the company “chickenshit” for firing and disparaging employees who have organized protests. He also said the firings are “designed to create a climate of fear.”

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Rocket, Sean Robinson, Christian, Daniel R, njerry, lorcan_nagle, Todd

Will_C wrote:

Well this isn’t something you see every day:

It really isn’t. He sounds like a great guy.

Last year, he was the highest-ranking employee to sign an open letter promoting a shareholders’ resolution calling for climate action at the company, which continues to work with fossil fuel companies. A total of 8,702 employees signed that letter. Bray has previously been arrested for protesting the Trans-Mountain Pipeline in Canada.

After Amazon fired two employees who helped organize a climate walkout around the time of that letter, Bray said he “snapped.”

“VPs shouldn’t go publicly rogue, so I escalated through the proper channels and by the book,” he wrote. He said that he decided to quit in solidarity with those who have been fired. “Remaining an Amazon VP would have meant, in effect, signing off on the actions I despised. So I resigned.”

I’m surprised he lasted as long at amazon as he did. Well done for quitting, and not doing it quietly.

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Will_C, Todd, lorcan_nagle

Murder Hornets? Now in Washington State

Like we don’t have enough to worry about.

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Miqque

Sean Robinson wrote:

Murder Hornets? Now in Washington State

Like we don’t have enough to worry about.

Don’t worry! The killer bees will take care of the murder hornets!

 

Just infect them with corona to take them out.

[garjones]

I have a friend who runs a bar in Kuala Lumpur. He’s Irish and got stuck in Dublin on a visit home when the Covid issue hit.

He has spent 6 solid weeks boasting 10 times a day on Twitter how Ireland’s response is so great compared to the UK, which factually is correct.

However when he got into an argument that Ireland’s stats are actually pretty crap when you aren’t comparing them to the US and UK he said ‘ international comparisons are not valid’.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by garjones.

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Christian, Todd, lorcan_nagle

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/05/uk-coronavirus-adviser-prof-neil-ferguson-resigns-after-breaking-lockdown-rules

 

This is the guy who doesn’t let you see your loved ones.

Gov. Greg Abbott announces modifications to executive order, allows hair salons to reopen Friday

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott announced some modifications and clarifications to his April 27 executive order Tuesday and said that barbershops, nail salons and hairdressers can reopen beginning Friday with some restrictions.

Last week, Abbott rolled out the first phase of the state’s reopening plan, allowing some businesses — like retail stores, restaurants, movie theaters and malls — to reopen with limited occupancy.

As the state continues through the phased reopening, Abbott stressed the importance of maintaining social distancing and hygiene protocols. He attributed the “positive results” in Texas to the face that people were social distancing, wearing masks, avoiding gatherings and sanitizing.

Here are the highlights from his press conference:

Reopening more businesses

Hair salons, barbershops
After they were not allowed to open in the executive order from last week, Abbott says he worked with local businesses to determine what they would be able to do to ensure the safety of both customers and staff.
On Friday, May 8, Abbott said cosmetology salons, hair salons, tanning salons, barbershops will be allowed to reopen. While Abbott said he is giving business owners the opportunity to reopen, he is not forcing anyone to do so unless they want to.

Some of the rules to reopen:
– One customer per stylist unless they are waiting for service
– Six-feet of distancing between work stations
– Appointment system encouraged
– If allowing walk-ins, distancing required for people waiting for service
– Strongly recommend for customers and stylists is wearing masks

Gyms and exercise facilities
Gyms and exercise facilities will be allowed to reopen starting May 18.
Some of the rules are:
– Gyms must operate at 25% capacity
– Showers and locker rooms must remain closed during the first phase
– All equipment must be disinfected
– Customers must wear gloves that cover their whole hands and fingers
– Must maintain 6-feet social distancing inside the gym
– If they bring a yoga mat or other equipment from home, it must be disinfected before use

Bars
Abbott said it was still too soon to reopen bars and he encouraged business owners to reach out to his office to provide feedback about how they may be able to safely reopen. He did not provide a timeline for when bars may be able to reopen. Meanwhile, last week, Abbott said alcohol-to-go orders may continue through the reopening and teased the possibility of keeping it permanently.

Non-essential manufacturing
Non-essential manufacturers will be allowed to reopen, effective May 18. Abbott said the reason for the delayed reopening was so companies could establish protocols to ensure safety of workers.

Some of the rules:
– 25% occupancy
– Staggered workforce so not all workers are in the space at the same time
– Six feet of separation between workers but if that’s not possible, add plexiglass between work stations.

Office buildings
Abbott said he will allow most office buildings to open up on May 18 as well, giving owners and operators to effectively sanitize the buildings and institute reopening protocols. He said that office building can open up under two circumstances: either the greater of five employees or 25% workforce provided they maintain appropriate social distancing.

Clarifications to last week’s executive order

Funerals, burials, memorials and weddings
– They are all treated the same as church services that will have limited seating arrangements.
– Strongly encourage at-risk populations to try and watch or participate remotely.
– For the vulnerable populations, providers are recommended to designate an area for them
– Alternate rows in a church setting and have an area of 6 feet spacing between people.
– Limit seating to household gatherings alone.
– At wedding receptions, the same type of practices should be used in receptions that are used in restaurants: 25% occupancy, no tables of more than six people, the 6-feet separation between tables

Being outdoors
For park-like places like beaches, rivers, and lakes, people are asked to maintain six-feet separation if possible and groups of no more than five people

Restaurants
While the seating capacity limit of 25% occupancy applies indoors, it does not apply for outdoor seating. However, restaurant owners must maintain distancing requirements.

Education and graduation ceremonies
Mike Morath, commissioner of the Texas Education Agency announced that high school and kindergarten graduations will be allowed in schools with some restrictions.

Here are the rules
– Hybrid ceremony approved, with students coming in one-at-a-time
– Vehicle graduations are approved allowing students to drive-thru graduation ceremonies
– Outdoor graduation ceremonies are approved with appropriate distancing between people and family groups

When asked about universities in Texas, Abbott said it was appropriate for them to begin making a plan to reopen for the fall semester, though the decision to reopen will be made later in the summer.

Hospital capacity in Texas as of today
Hospital beds: 19,000
ICU Beds: 2,000
Ventilators: 6,600

Abbott said as Texas continues to ramp up testing and allows healthcare providers to use more beds that were designated for coronavirus patients, the number of available hospital beds may decrease.

It is so important that anybody with any type of health care ailment, have access to doctors, hospitals and health care, Abbott said.

Texas numbers as of today
Texans tested: 427,210
Positive cases: 33,369
Active cases: 15,672
Hospitalizations: 1,888
Fatalities: 906
Recovered: 16,791

Abbott said testing continues to ramp up in Texas. On Tuesday 19,000 Texans were tested, Abbott said. In the past two weeks alone, Texas has done more than half of the total testing that has happened since the outbreak began in Texas in early March, he said.
One of the many reasons testing is going up is because the National Guard is “criss-crossing” Texas, Abbott said.
Texas officials are focusing on places where there has been a high number of coronavirus cases including jails, nursing homes and meat-packing plants, Abbott said. However, he says more than 95% of people who are tested, test negative.

Flare-ups and where to get tested
Abbott says as Texas continues a phased reopening, there will likely be flare-ups of coronavirus cases in different parts of the state. He said “Surge Response Teams” that will have about five or six members will be deployed to help deal with these issues. The teams will be led by the Texas Department of Health and Human Services, the Texas Office of Emergency Management and the Texas National Guard.

Some of the places surge teams are already working are jails, senior living facilities, and meat-packing plants in the panhandle where officials have seen high numbers of coronavirus cases. Officials said at least 20% of Texas nursing homes have reported at least one coronavirus case so far and about a third of all coronavirus deaths in the state — 317 deaths — are associated with a nursing home. Officials also s aid that of the 47 surge teams currently working around the state, about 20 are working with nursing homes.

Abbott stressed that Texans try and get tested for coronavirus. The Texas Department of Health and Human Services has a map that lists more than 400 testing centers where you can go and get tested for COVID-19.

But wait, there’s more!

Texas Gov. Admits Dangers of Reopening State on Private Call With Lawmakers

During a private call on Friday, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott admitted that “every scientific and medical report shows” state reopenings “ipso facto” lead to an increase in novel coronavirus cases, even as he publicly announced plans that same week to end an executive stay-at-home order in the state.

“How do we know reopening businesses won’t result in faster spread of more cases of COVID-19?” Abbott asked during a Friday afternoon phone call with members of the state legislature and Congress. “Listen, the fact of the matter is pretty much every scientific and medical report shows that whenever you have a reopening—whether you want to call it a reopening of businesses or of just a reopening of society—in the aftermath of something like this, it actually will lead to an increase and spread. It’s almost ipso facto.”

“The more that you have people out there, the greater the possibility is for transmission,” Abbott said on the call, which a spokesperson confirmed was authentic on Tuesday. “The goal never has been to get transmission down to zero.”

The audio was recorded by somebody on the call, and a clip of it was sent to The Daily Beast on Tuesday. It was first reported by state political site Quorum Report, which noted that Abbott’s public statements so far have largely only mentioned that Texas may see an increase in the numbers due to increased testing capacity, rather than increased contact. Though Abbott has repeatedly said in public interviews that reopening “can” or “could” cause a spike in cases, the audio recording from last Friday’s call appeared to show a more direct and certain understanding of the risks.

John Wittman, a spokesperson for Abbott, insisted on Tuesday that the language in the audio message doesn’t deviate much from a local interview in which the governor admitted that “all scientists and doctors say that as we do begin to open up, there could be an increase in the number of coronavirus cases.” But during that interview, Abbott again attributed the increase to the improved capacity for testing in the state, rather than the increase in person-to-person contact.

Wittman also pointed to an interview in which Abbott said “when you begin to reopen, there can be spikes or increases in those who test positive for COVID-19” but that “this is nothing to be worried about, in part, because we will be doing far more testing in the future than we have in the past and that alone will identify more people testing positive.”

“The Governor has said this from the beginning, as we begin to open up, we will see flare ups, whether we open now or three months from now,” Wittman said. “The key is ensuring we are able to contain that spread, which is where contact tracing comes into play.”

Last week, during a press conference, Abbott announced the end to his executive order and plans to “strategically” open businesses in phases throughout the state, including movie theaters, restaurants, malls, and retail stores up to 25 percent occupancy.

During that press conference, the governor said that “it’s only logical to see there would be an increase in the number of people that test positive,” adding, “so just because there may be an increase in the number of people that test positive, that alone is not a decisive criteria.”

“This order allows these businesses to reopen but does not require them to reopen,” Abbott continued, noting that the state’s orders supersede all local authorities, who may not impose stricter guidelines.

On Friday’s private call with other lawmakers, Abbott emphasized that “the goal never has been to get transmission of COVID-19 down to zero, and never can be to keep transmission down to zero.”

“There’s always going to be, with a rapidly transmittable disease like this, there will always be a level of transmission,” said Abbott. “And even when you have an immunization come out, there will be a transmission rate for COVID-19.”

Loveland man charged after FBI discovers 4 alleged pipe bombs in home, gunpowder in car

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Miqque, Todd

Anonymous wrote:

This is the guy who doesn’t let you see your loved ones.

Well, he’s one of the people involved in the modelling that the government policy is based on.

Also, this:

“I accept I made an error of judgment and took the wrong course of action. I have therefore stepped back from my involvement in Sage,” Ferguson said. “I acted in the belief that I was immune, having tested positive for coronavirus, and completely isolated myself for almost two weeks after developing symptoms.

And more generally speaking, he had contact with his girlfriend. Twice.

I mean, it’s probably the right move for him to resign, but while the offical line in the UK has apparently been that couples should ideally not see each other or move in together, I think being a couple really is one of those cases where nobody realistically expects those two people to actually not see each other anymore.

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Ben, Dave

Well, it’s interesting to see someone resign over doing something wrong.

I have a feeling it won’t catch on though.

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Christian, Todd, Ben

Anonymous wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/05/uk-coronavirus-adviser-prof-neil-ferguson-resigns-after-breaking-lockdown-rules

 

This is the guy who doesn’t let you see your loved ones.

The guy whose mathematical models have been criticized numerous times in the past: CJD foot and mouth, swine flu, in every case his models were proven wrong (for foot and mouth, disastrously so: he did to the farming industry what he’s now doing to every industry in the country). For Covid-19, he apparently hasn’t let anyone peer review his work. I wonder why?

He probably knows that he was perfectly safe ignoring his own quarantine advice, because his advice is probably wrong.

 

Christian wrote:

I think being a couple really is one of those cases where nobody realistically expects those two people to actually not see each other anymore.

I disagree. Under current regulations people can’t see siblings, parents, children, any critically ill family measures in hospital, children are not being educated, the economy is being destroyed, people are suffering untreated illnesses and mental health problems, people are literally committing suicide.

If you accept all of the above is necessary but, oh you’re allowed a night’s nookie if you miss your girlfriend, then what’s the fucking pot to any of it?

Honestly,  am currently more angry tha

Sorry canlt typeproperly literally shaking with anger fucking dfuck the fucking porofessor and all fuckers wsho did this to us and laugh at what THEY’VE DONE BECAUSE THEY’RE ALL RIGHT JACK

AND THE FUCKING mpS wth their fcking perfect hair cuts

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Christian, Todd

I hope you don’t let it get to you too badly David.

One reliable constant is that human behaviour will continue to be fallible and imperfect, and another is that people in positions of power and influence will continue to act hypocritically at times.

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garjones, DavidM

Sorry

I love that it ended on the haircuts, that was brilliant!

But honestly, I don’t know about the current regulations and how they are enforced in the UK, but nobody has as yet tried to stop me from seeing my kid (us being in a patchwork kind of family). He’s spending some of the time with us, as usual, and the rest with his mother.

I haven’t seen my parents outside of a video call, of course, and the same goes for most people, but then I wouldn’t want to actually see them because they are very much in a risk group. And yes, not bein able to see friends and family is tough, but… if you’re in a serious relationship, I won’t expect you not to see your boy- or girlfriend for months now. That’s just not realistic. This is a single contact point, one person to one person, and while it’d be better if it wasn’t happening epidemologically, there are also just limits to what you can ask of people. At least outside a complete shutdown where you aren’t allowed outside at all; luckily, it never got that far in Germany.

There’s the rules and then there’s reality.

Some people have been seeing friends and family, some people have practiced a lot of social distancing and some have hardly done any at all, but the people setting out the rules can’t be seen to break them without facing some consequences.

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Dave, Todd

And an additional point here is that some people see this latest story as part of a pattern.

As with all conspiracy theories, milage will vary. This one is credible at least;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/06/neil-ferguson-scientists-media-government-adviser-social-distancing

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Todd

SteveUK wrote:

the people setting out the rules can’t be seen to break them without facing some consequences.

Which to me is the crux of it. Is what he actually did that bad? Not really.

His position was untenable because he drafted the rules he broke.

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lorcan_nagle, Todd, Dave

An interesting perspective on Covid in the US.

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Rocket, lorcan_nagle, Todd

edit: never mind

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njerry

garjones wrote:

His position was untenable because he drafted the rules he broke.

Yeah, I agree that him stepping down is what needed to happen here. I just don’t know if him seeing his girlfried should induce anger in Dave to the point where he can’t type properly. I mean, there’s typos in David’s posts. Typos. In David M’s posts.

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Todd, DavidM, Dave, garjones

So, Germany is opening up more stuff this month. Museums, all shops, at the end of the month restaurants… schools, too, to some extent. Primary schools have already opened again, and secondary will follow at the end of the month. “Open” only means like one or two days of school for individual pupils, but hey, it’ll be better than nothing.

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Todd

Christian wrote:

garjones wrote:

His position was untenable because he drafted the rules he broke.

Yeah, I agree that him stepping down is what needed to happen here. I just don’t know if him seeing his girlfried should induce anger in Dave to the point where he can’t type properly. I mean, there’s typos in David’s posts. Typos. In David M’s posts.

He fried his girl?

No wonder David’s distraught.

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Todd

Christian wrote:

I just don’t know if him seeing his girlfried should induce anger in Dave to the point where he can’t type properly.

It seems hypocrisy is the biggest sin for David. He’s been ranting daily about the neat haircuts all the politician’s magically seem to have.

It’ll probably end up they all have partners who are handy with the scissors and his anger was all for nothing.

 

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Christian, Todd

Hey! Outrage on the internet isn’t some privilege, it’s a basic human need!

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Christian, Todd

garjones wrote:

Christian wrote:

I just don’t know if him seeing his girlfried should induce anger in Dave to the point where he can’t type properly.

It seems hypocrisy is the biggest sin for David. He’s been ranting daily about the neat haircuts all the politician’s magically seem to have.

It’ll probably end up they all have partners who are handy with the scissors and his anger was all for nothing.

 

Night of the long scissors.

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Christian, Todd, Ben

WTF Kenya? How did you think this was a good idea?

Since the start of the pandemic, many people have been stuck in isolation centres long after they were supposed to leave because they cannot afford the bills.
Most government isolation facilities are charging at least $20 (£16) a day.

Surprisingly:

Turnout for mass testing in low-income areas of the capital, Nairobi, and the city of Mombasa – the virus hotspots – has been poor.

Well, duh.

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Todd

There’s always people who try to make a profit out of other peoples’ fears and miseries. I just didn’t expect it would be the government.

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Todd

njerry wrote:

There’s always people who try to make a profit out of other peoples’ fears and miseries. I just didn’t expect it would be the government.

We have a Tory government at the moment, so we’d be surprised if they didn’t.

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DavidM, Christian

So, er, Trump visits a mask factory.

Still doesn’t wear a mask.

And then, as he is looking at these masks up close, in the background, can be heard a Guns ‘n’ Roses cover of Live and Let Die.

You couldn’t make it up.

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DavidM, Dave, Todd

You need to view the sequel.

He does wear a mask. Many masks. He even had names for them. Not his fault he wore them backstage where no one could see and the nasty fake news reporter didn’t notice he was told he wasn’t required to don a mask which he totally wore tremendously.

The workers weren’t wearing masks either but they’re insignificant.

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njerry, Ben

Ben wrote:

And then, as he is looking at these masks up close, in the background, can be heard a Guns ‘n’ Roses cover of Live and Let Die.

Some scamp at the factory definitely set that song up deliberately.

I would have gone with ‘send in the clowns’.

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Dave, Todd, njerry, Ben

The net is split as to if it was accidental or deliberate. If the latter there’s been tweets applauding the sheer cheek of it.

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Todd

garjones wrote:

Some scamp at the factory definitely set that song up deliberately.

I would have gone with ‘send in the clowns’.

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Todd, garjones

The science isn’t sciencing in the way we want so here’s the CEO of InGen to reassure the public it’s perfectly feasible to re-open. Rather than double-down on our containment efforts, we’ve decided to dissolve the velociraptor containment task force altogether!

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/sure-the-velociraptors-are-still-on-the-loose-but-thats-no-reason-not-to-reopen-jurassic-park

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DavidM, lorcan_nagle

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/benjamin-netanyahu-suggests-to-microchip-kids-slammed-by-experts-627381

 

Netanyahu just suggested microchipping all children so that an alarm goes off if someone breaks “social distancing rules”. I hope he was joking or something.

 

I just realized this is like something from Brass Eye: Paedogeddon

Was Benjamin Netanyahu disguised as a school at the time?

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lorcan_nagle

Dave wrote:

Was Benjamin Netanyahu disguised as a school at the time?

He sent a group text that read BALTIMORA

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Dave

I think I’m slowly getting a handle on the new rules. This seems to be the best summary:

* 4 year olds can go to school but university students who have paid for their tuition and the accommodation that they aren’t living in, can’t go back to university.

* I can go to school with many 4 year olds that I’m not related to but can’t see one 4 year old that I am related to.

* I can sit in a park, but not tomorrow or Tuesday but by Wednesday that’ll be fine.

* I can meet one person from another household for a chat or to sunbathe but not two people so if I know two people from another household I have to pick my favourite. Hopefully, I’m also their favourite person from my household or this could be awkward. But possibly I’m not. In fact, thinking about it, I definitely wouldn’t be. But as I can’t go closer than 2m to the one I choose anyway so you wouldn’t think having the other one sat next to them would matter – unless two people would restrict my eyeline too much and prevent me from being alert.

* I can work all day with my colleagues but I can’t sit in their garden for a chat after work.

* I can now do unlimited exercise when quite frankly just doing an hour a day felt like I was some kind of fitness guru. I can think of lots of things that I would like to be unlimited but exercise definitely isn’t one of them.

* I can drive to other destinations although which destinations is unclear. I was supposed to be in Brighton this weekend. Can I drive there? It’s hundreds of miles away but no one has said that’s wrong.

* The buses are still running past my house but I shouldn’t get on one. We should just let empty buses drive around so bus drivers aren’t doing nothing.

* It will soon be time to quarantine people coming into the country by air… but not yet. It’s too soon. And not ever if you’re coming from France because… well, I don’t know why, actually. Because the French version of coronavirus wouldn’t come to the UK maybe.

* Our youngest children go back to school first because… they are notoriously good at not touching things they shouldn’t, maintain personal space at all times and never randomly lick you.

* We are somewhere in between 3.5 and 4.5 on a five point scale where 5 is all of the virus and 1 is none of the virus but 2,3 and 4 can be anything you’d like it to be really. Some of the virus? A bit of the virus? Just enough virus to see off those over 70s who were told to self isolate but now we’ve realised that they’ve done that a bit too well?

* The slogan isn’t stay at home any more.So we don’t have to say at home. Except we do. Unless we can’t. In which case we should go out. But there will be fines if we break the rules. So don’t do that.

Don’t forget…

Stay alert… which Robert Jenrick has explained actually means Stay home as much as possible. Obviously.

Control the virus. Well, I can’t even control my dogs and I can actually see them. Plus I know a bit about dogs and very little about controlling viruses.

Save lives. Always preferable to not saving lives, I’d say, so I’ll try my best with that
one, although hopefully I don’t need telling to do that. I know I’m bragging now but not NOT saving lives is something I do every day.

So there you are. If you’re the weirdo wanting unlimited exercise then enjoy. But not until Wednesday. Obviously.

 

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Sean Robinson, Todd, Dave, garjones

You can play golf or sunbathe in the park with your household and any strangers that are socially distant. If you know one of the other people there though you must leave immediately.

pic.twitter.com/k6Sr4Iac15

— realmattlucas (@RealMattLucas) May 10, 2020

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Todd, Dave, DavidM

DavidM wrote:

I can now do unlimited exercise when quite frankly just doing an hour a day felt like I was some kind of fitness guru. I can think of lots of things that I would like to be unlimited but exercise definitely isn’t one of them.

Unlimited exercise outdoors remember. Before you were always allowed to exercise at home, say doing an aerobics or yoga class off Youtube, to your heart’s content.

The exercise and physical and mental health thing is quite funny, of course it hugely assists in mental health but 7 hours a week is a lot and more than enough to satisfy those needs. A demand for more hours was always hidden behind that facade for people who wanted to be outside on a sunny day. They should just be honest about it.

Don’t forget you can go to work on Monday, maybe Wednesday now, but only if your employers are following the health and safety guidelines issues by the government later this week. So as long as on Wednesday they follow the guidelines issued on Friday all should be good.

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Dave, Ben, DavidM

There’s a BBC interview (which I’m not able to link to) with Matt Hancock trying to explain why it’s more safe to meet someone in a park than in their garden, and why children can be looked after by child minders but not a member of their own family.

They are making it really difficult to apply common sense.

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Ben

All this only applies in England. We’re still in lockdown for a further 3 weeks. Although some are listening to England’s “common sense” and there’s still a shortage of PPE and very little testing but they finally announced a plan this morning.

I guess you could meet all your family members individually in the park and hire them as your butlers but then to stay fully alert they could never leave your house again.

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Ben

Anonymous wrote:

I guess you could meet all your family members individually in the park and hire them as your butlers

I think you may be on to something. This is how MPs think, after all. It’s similar to “I’ll hire my wife as my secretary and claim her wages back on expenses.”

Furthermore, you could then furlough them and claim 80% of their wages from the government. It’s win-win-win!

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Ben

I’m not sure I’d describe what they’re doing as thinking, David. I’ve now watched further clarification on the news about “the rules are the rules” and for those concerned about health and safety whilst working as a nanny “you could think about having a window open.”

Maybe Dyson could provide robo-butlers to open the windows.

At least the news has shown how to deal with Trump: if you confront him with women in press conferences he runs away.

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Ben

He can be a complete dipshit a lot of the time but credit is due to Bill Maher who spotted from day one that Trump is in fact a ‘whiny little bitch’. He’s never been near an ‘alpha male’, the only aspect of that is his wealth which was given to him and his trophy wives he bought. He sits up all night whining about his critics on Twitter.

Thatcher, and believe me I’m not a fan, was way more of an alpha male than Trump is. In fact every female world leader I can think of.

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Christian, Todd, lorcan_nagle

garjones wrote:

Thatcher, and believe me I’m not a fan, was way more of an alpha male than Trump

Obligatory:

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garjones

Probably the best one-liner ever from Spitting Image.

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lorcan_nagle

DavidM wrote:

* Our youngest children go back to school first because… they are notoriously good at not touching things they shouldn’t, maintain personal space at all times and never randomly lick you.

This, by the way, is why kindergartens in Germany – or at least in Northrhine-Westfalia aren’t going to open at all, apparently, for 2-4 year olds. There is a huge pressure for them to do something about this, though, because being left alone with their kids that age (while also having to work from home) is driving parents entirely nuts.
It’s pretty much the choice of whether you’d rather take the Corona risk or the risk of being killed by one of those parents running amok.

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DavidM

I think that’s the dilemma. Between the childrens’ needs and their parents who may need to go to work.

The smaller they are the more supervision they need. Academically the little kids can afford the missed time better than older age groups but a 15 year old can stay at home and in most cases manage themselves.

Christian wrote:

being left alone with their kids that age (while also having to work from home) is driving parents entirely nuts

Am I alone in thinking there’s something wrong with people that are driven nuts by their kids presence? Like, I realize it’s hard working from home at the same time, but… It’s your kids! Putting pressure on others to mind their children doesn’t work well with me.

But what do I know? I am happily child free for life, for reasons not entirely unsimilar to the above.

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DavidM

garjones wrote:

I think that’s the dilemma. Between the childrens’ needs and their parents who may need to go to work.

The smaller they are the more supervision they need. Academically the little kids can afford the missed time better than older age groups but a 15 year old can stay at home and in most cases manage themselves.

To a degree, but some of my colleagues with teenagers have found their kids need more support than is popularly thought.

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Miqque

Ben wrote:

To a degree, but some of my colleagues with teenagers have found their kids need more support than is popularly thought.

That’s always going to be their own fault.

No offence meant but it’s nature v nurture. Every toddler on the planet seeing a bookshelf will slowly throw them all on the floor. If they see a ledge they’ll drop things from it.

They have to have supervision, there’s nothing optional about it.

If your early teen is needing the attention of a toddler then you’ve fucked something up.

 

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DavidM

I’m not a parent, but I was a teenager.

There are some exceptions but, as a general rule;

Teenagers are assholes.

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DavidM, Todd

I’m going to speak up for the teenagers here. This is a difficult time for everyone but when you’re a teenager, especially an early teen, there can be a weird mix of you still being a child in many ways but with people expecting you to deal with things as an adult.

So while I think teenagers should be expected to be able to look after themselves in terms of basics like making food or keeping themselves entertained or whatever, and shouldn’t need the constant moment-to-moment attention of a toddler, I think there is still a lot of extra parental care needed in the current circumstances, especially when it comes to mental health.

Being a teenager can be difficult enough as it is, and a rollercoaster of ups and downs, but at the moment their lives are truly being turned upside down and they’re looking to the adults in their lives for stability and reassurance.

With age comes a greater understanding of the world and I think that leaves teenagers vulnerable to more complex anxieties without necessarily having developed the coping mechanisms they need to deal with them yet.

That extra support is certainly an extra strain on parents, even if it isn’t quite the same as the strain that is put on a parent by trying to juggle work with a young child who needs constant supervision.

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DavidM, Rocket

SteveUK wrote:

Teenagers are assholes

Teenagers scare

The living shit out of me

They could care less

As long as someone’ll bleed

Is that a Tom Waits song?

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Christian

To be honest I think this has gone way off the original point.

The truth is that teenagers can wipe their own arses, they can amuse themselves with TV or Netflix whatever is on the iPad. They can cook a basic meal to keep them sustained. They can make themselves a drink.

While they may have genuine needs and issues and hormonal challenges when we’re talking about why you’d send kindergarten or reception kids back to school first that is your answer. It’s the parents.

It is an overwhelming feeling when you are a new parent that for several years this child cannot exist without you, it would starve or die some other way. So whether some can be a pain or not is not related to the fact that kids under 5 need constant supervision. Those over 12 are legally (in the UK and many countries) deemed to be able to be left alone. It’s not saying parenthood at all levels can’t be a challenge but when you are talking about why a decision would be made to send the youngest first, that’s your answer.

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DavidM

Dave wrote:

That extra support is certainly an extra strain on parents, even if it isn’t quite the same as the strain that is put on a parent by trying to juggle work with a young child who needs constant supervision.

This is the better version of what I was going for.

Only reason I mentioned it is it was discussed at work a few weeks back and it was only when a colleague made the point that it also highlighted how the discussion tends to go more towards younger kids, for obvious reasons, that there was a perception bias to be picked up on.

Wasn’t expecting it to be that contentious an idea.

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Dave

We could always discuss everything that’s wrong with Bill Mayer calling Trump a whiny little bitch instead.

I can mitigate any resulting contentiousness by finding a picture of Gillian Anderson’s portrayal of Thatcher.

Anonymous wrote:

Am I alone in thinking there’s something wrong with people that are driven nuts by their kids presence? Like, I realize it’s hard working from home at the same time, but… It’s your kids!

I think it is difficult to realise just how hard it is unless you’ve been in that situation. Kids at the age of 2-4 will demand your attention all the time, and getting any work done at all while taking care of them is very hard indeed. And the stress of having to do two things that are mutually exlusive for weeks will put an incredible amount of stress on parents. Having to do it for another year or so… it’s really an impossible situation.

And I think that’s the difference when it comes to teenagers, Ben. You can leave a teenager alone. You can’t leave a toddler alone, not even for a few hours. It’s just not possible.

Ben wrote:

To a degree, but some of my colleagues with teenagers have found their kids need more support than is popularly thought.

And for what it’s worth, I completely agree with that. And I don’t just mean that without the schedule of school, it’s just hard for teenagers to have some kind of structure in their day. But rather that this lack of structure, coupled with the lack of productivity and the isolation is harder on teenagers even than it is on adults. The idea of “amusing themselves on Netflix” and video games only goes so far; that part and sleeping in was fun the first few weeks, but at the point we are at now, many teenagers are falling into lethargy and even depression. Many really do need a lot of support, no doubt more than is popularly thought.

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Dave, garjones, Ben

From the BBC:

This would normally be an extremely busy transport hub, with a Tube station, Docklands Light Railway and a bus station – but these are of course not normal times.
It was fairly quiet early this morning, but it is now getting busier. I have seen some buses are arriving full to capacity with every seat taken, so it is obviously impossible for people to observe social distancing guidelines.
On the Tube platform, there were tannoy announcements reminding people to stand two metres apart, and most were able to. But inside the train carriages might be a different story.
For many of these commuters, travelling through Canning Town is the only way for them to get to work. And many of them will be going to work for the first time in seven weeks, making this the first opportunity to see if social distancing on London’s transport network can work.

This is clearly insane. The thing that really gets to me is making people stand 2m apart on platforms. The same people who have just sat on a crowded bus for probably a considerable period of time. What is the point? From all points of view (i.e. whether you believe we need social distancing or not), this situation is so stupid it’s… it’s beyond parody, no jokes about it can do justice to the idiotic reality.

I thought we couldn’t get any more stupid than Brexit. I was wrong.

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Dave

Seriously, @DavidM, what is your solution? What should we be doing, in your opinion?

I wish I had hundreds of highly educated, highly paid scientific advisors to ask, and then thousands of highly educated, highly paid civil servants to help me communicate and implement their advice. Then I might be able to answer you.

Sadly, it seems that nobody has that. So I guess there isn’t an answer.

The solution is to dose the water with high intensity aphrodisiacs so every one bonks like rabbits and the population books so rapidly that the curve flattens itself.

You just don’t know it.

Anonymous wrote:

The solution is to dose the water with high intensity aphrodisiacs so every one bonks like rabbits

That’s your solution to everything, high-intensity aphrodisiacs. It’s not going to happen.

DavidM wrote:

So I guess there isn’t an answer.

I’m sure there must be some… final solution.

Dave wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The solution is to dose the water with high intensity aphrodisiacs so every one bonks like rabbits

That’s your solution to everything, high-intensity aphrodisiacs. It’s not going to happen.

why are you always so mean to me

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Christian, Rocket

DavidM wrote:

I wish I had hundreds of highly educated, highly paid scientific advisors to ask, and then thousands of highly educated, highly paid civil servants to help me communicate and implement their advice. Then I might be able to answer you.

Sadly, it seems that nobody has that. So I guess there isn’t an answer.

Your error is in assuming you need to listen to those advisers, for by sole virtue of winning an election, you are superior to them. So, nothing can possibly go wrong.

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Dave, DavidM

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Todd, Ben, lorcan_nagle

Advisors are many times self proclaimed experts. Electoral processes are flawed. Our leaders are power hungry egotists pushing agendas. I think that is why Cuomo is popular now. He knows that New Yorkers will tell you where to stick it if you tell them what to do. He doesn’t waste his time. He tells why you should do something then issues an executive order enforcing it. forgive the stereotypes but here is a typical new york interaction

A: why aren’t chu wearing a mask

B: I don’t like bein told what to do

A: what are you? a moron or sumting? You don’t wear the mask, you kill people, DO YOU WANNA KILL PEOPLE?

B: (ashamed) no. *goes and gets the mask*

This is an excellent illustration of just how many people use one of the busier underground stations in London and the effect social distancing has upon it:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/what-would-happen-if-londoners-tried-to-go-back-to-normal-on-a-socially-distanced-underground

Between 8 and 9am on a normal weekday, 1,005 people press into Clapham North station and get on a train to the centre of London. With 24 trains a hour, an average of 42 get on each train.

But if social distancing means that commuters can only sit on alternate seats, and no-one is allowed to stand – by our calculations, only 10% of the people who would normally get a train from this station will be able to board one.

In that scenario, only four people instead of 42 will be able to get on each train. Meaning a total of 96 an hour can leave the station.

If everyone tried to resume their morning commute, this would leave 909 people waiting outside Clapham North station. The resulting 1.8km queue (leaving 2m between each would-be commuter) would stretch back almost two stops to Clapham South.

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lorcan_nagle, DavidM, Todd

Speaking with working around 2-4 year olds

Yeah, like Fallon didn’t bribe his kids to do that

 

njerry wrote:

Seriously, @DavidM, what is your solution? What should we be doing, in your opinion?

Ok, my first solution is to use common sense. According to this report, Denmark opened its schools before opening anything else. This means you’ve got parents free to address how to get back to work. Denmark has common sense. Be more like Denmark.

Actually, the real reason I’m posting this is because, holy cow, these Danish kids are six years old and speak better English than me.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52657494?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5ebca4e6fa24c6066d82a7b4%26How%20Denmark%20reopened%20its%20schools%262020-05-14T03%3A24%3A14.342Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:20eacfa2-6c0b-451a-8577-206f6b14a4c6&pinned_post_asset_id=5ebca4e6fa24c6066d82a7b4&pinned_post_type=share

But even before we got as far as that, I’d have done something like this:

It’s been six months since the outbreak emerged in mainland China, just a short distance away, but we haven’t had any lockdown. People living in Taiwan, including myself, are feeling very fortunate.

…

But that doesn’t mean Taiwanese people are letting down their guard.

They know what has helped Taiwan is being vigilant – including early border controls, a ban on foreign visitors, mandatory quarantine for all overseas returnees, proactive detection at airports and hospitals, efficient contact tracing, and strict enforcement of hospital isolation and home quarantine.

Common sense

But has it worked?

As the Taiwanese watch the sharp rise in cases and deaths in other countries, they are quietly proud of going through one month – 31 straight days as of Wednesday – without any new domestically-transmitted cases, and six consecutive days of no new imported cases either.

With a total of 440 cases and only 7 deaths, Taiwan is doing much better than most countries.

Children are going to school and adults to work as normal, the streets are buzzing, and shops and restaurants have remained open.

Dave wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The solution is to dose the water with high intensity aphrodisiacs so every one bonks like rabbits

That’s your solution to everything, high-intensity aphrodisiacs. It’s not going to happen.

Let Tim have his bonky rabbits if it keeps him in mischief.

Besides, anything can happen in the next half hour.

DavidM wrote:

these Danish kids are six years old and speak better English than me.

At six years old and being around danish speaking people, they’re surely desperate for an intelligible non-gibberish language.

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Christian, DavidM, Todd

https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/8/21251788/spot-boston-dynamics-robot-singapore-park-social-distancing

 

Nice. I have just about McFucking had it.

Arjan, this is in Singapore, it can’t practically affect you – this is what managing your news intake is all about.

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Todd

Ben wrote:

Arjan, this is in Singapore, it can’t practically affect you – this is what managing your news intake is all about.

I just wish there was an outcry about this. To have drones and robots telling you not to get too close to your loved ones…I have no words. We’re being put in a worldwide prison.

Ben is right though, this is nothing new. It has been a meme in Singapore for two decades how they have very limited freedom.

The irony being that in that time they have had by far the world’s best first world  performing economy.

It’s not as simple as left/right and authoritarian or not.

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DavidM, Ben, Todd

William Gibson wrote Disneyland with the Death Penalty about Singapore in 1993, for Bob’s sake.  This is nothing new.

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Todd

The wi-fi penalty is particularly vicious.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

William Gibson wrote Disneyland with the Death Penalty about Singapore in 1993, for Bob’s sake.  This is nothing new.

Wait? No naked show at home? What if I want to naked show at home to maaaai waaaaaiiiffffe?

Anonymous wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

William Gibson wrote Disneyland with the Death Penalty about Singapore in 1993, for Bob’s sake.  This is nothing new.

Wait? No naked show at home? What if I want to naked show at home to maaaai waaaaaiiiffffe?

You pay the two grand fine?

No playing annoying music is something I can get behind. I can think of plenty of touring artists that would have the Singapore police working overtime.

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Todd, DavidM, Ben

Anonymous wrote:

At six years old and being around danish speaking people, they’re surely desperate for an intelligible non-gibberish language.

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