"They are politicians!" – the Politics thread

Topic

Sponsored by General Martok, (Lord Vetinari declined to be involved) here’s the thread for covering political goings on.

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Thing is, what is the solution if not ‘you can’t beat ’em, join ’em’ ? What is going to work against the stream of perpetual emotional bullcrap that was Johnson’s campaign? What is the answer to this? I’d really like to know.
Because it is part of the story here: The “left” is supposed to all noble and moral, meanwhile it’s perfectly fine for the “right” to come along, kick it in the balls, kick it while its down with a side order of defamation and lies.
Something does have to change and if that means the “left” getting armoured up and steel toe cap boots to kick back, so be it.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Dave wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

See, I don’t buy that.  Every tine he made a public appearance he was treated like a rock star by the people.

I think he is liked by his own crowd, but I think that crowd has shrunk quite a bit since the last election. I think the antisemitism stuff has hurt him and so has the perceived equivocation on Brexit.

But that’s the thing – the crowds are massively different- rock concerts, football matches, rallies.  It’s a huge disparity in the places where people were chanting his name.

The media smearing of Labour and Corbyn has been constant for years now.  It didn’t start with this election.

I get the sentiment and I do agree to some extent. But even as a supporter of Labour I have to admit that a defeat of this degree would be so significant that it probably goes beyond that media bias.

Another interesting aspect of the exit poll that isn’t being discussed much yet is the SNP result. I think it absolutely gives them a mandate to push for a second independence referendum. If I were a Scottish voter it’s what I would want.

But a strengthened Tory party will make it harder to get that concession.

Oh, I think the idea that the left should be noble is bullshit, and it’s part of the media’s campaign to hobble us.

But here’s the thing – the game is rigged.  It’s been rigged for a long time and it’s only gotten more blatant in recent years. The same media that attacked Corbyn for allegedly being anti-semetic, only a few years after mounting a deeply anti-semetic campaign against Ed Milliband themselves.  In many cases the same people involved in both. There’s examples going back a century.

And in all honesty, it’s going to keep getting worse.  If the exit polls are accurate it’s quite possibly the death of the left as a viable electoral force in the UK.  Labour will go back to being Blairite and eventually just turn into a weak mirror of the Democrats in the US, and they’ll continue to privatise whatever the Tories don’t hack apart for a firesale.  But don’t worry, the society that grows in the remains of your cities when the nation collapses will be socialist, because they’ll need to use those principles to manage access to vital supplies.

Dave wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Dave wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

See, I don’t buy that.  Every tine he made a public appearance he was treated like a rock star by the people.

I think he is liked by his own crowd, but I think that crowd has shrunk quite a bit since the last election. I think the antisemitism stuff has hurt him and so has the perceived equivocation on Brexit.

But that’s the thing – the crowds are massively different- rock concerts, football matches, rallies.  It’s a huge disparity in the places where people were chanting his name.

The media smearing of Labour and Corbyn has been constant for years now.  It didn’t start with this election.

I get the sentiment and I do agree to some extent. But even as a supporter of Labour I have to admit that a defeat of this degree would be so significant that it probably goes beyond that media bias.

It’s going to take a massive amount of research to figure out.  The methodology for a lot of the polling was proven wrong by analysts during the election – demographic data was based on 2015 figures and weighted in favour of repeat voters, thus discounting the surge in young voter registration.  That the opinion polls got it wrong so badly in the direction they were already leaning makes me suspicious.

And this is very tinfoil hat, but apparently the value of the pound has surged in advance of the exit polls.  And with the BBC clearly having the fix in, I would not be surprised if the poll results are a fabrication so the usual gang of disaster capitalists can short the pound.

Worth remembering that just weeks ago, we were in a position where the opposition parties could have brought down Johnson and installed their own alternative government, if only they could agree on a figurehead to back. They fucked up when they had a golden opportunity – what might turn out to have been their last.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

But here’s the thing – the game is rigged.  It’s been rigged for a long time and it’s only gotten more blatant in recent years.

Again, I do sympathise with this viewpoint to some extent. But having had the last UK general election just 18 months, the difference in the results here is very pronounced.

Part of that I’m sure is the Labour policy shift on Brexit (last election both the Tories and Labour were pledging to uphold the result of the referendum). Part of it is the bloom coming off the rose for Corbyn. They’re not the only factors, but they’re important ones I think.

Dave wrote:

Worth remembering that just weeks ago, we were in a position where the opposition parties could have brought down Johnson and installed their own alternative government, if only they could agree on a figurehead to back. They fucked up when they had a golden opportunity – what might turn out to have been their last.

that was never going to happen.  I know I’m shitting on the Lib Dems a lot tonight, but they were never going to go into any sort of alliance with Labour.  Look back at their statements from the last decade’s worth of elections.  Like clockwork they day they won’t rule out a coalition with Labour, but the current leader is too extreme. And every time, it gets presented as new information.

It was in their power though. I wonder if some people are going to regret that decision now.

The biggest problem is too many Opposition MPs think that if they’re civilised to the Conservatives, it’ll be returned.  It won’t, they see civility as weakness.

What’s needed is a ruthless opposition that opposes the Government and is damn smart in how it does it.

Ben wrote:

The biggest problem is too many Opposition MPs think that if they’re civilised to the Conservatives, it’ll be returned.  It won’t, they see civility as weakness.

What’s needed is a ruthless opposition that opposes the Government and is damn smart in how it does it.

Yeah, this is what fucks the Democrats over in the US.

Also, get ready for Northern Ireland to get even more fucked over now that the Tories don’t need the DUP any more.

One of the ideas attributed to James Carville, who ran Clinton’s ’92 campaign, is that whatever the opposition do – you instantly counter it as fast as you can.  If you don’t control the story, you’re done.

New Labour did the same years later and, if nothing else, the experience of recent years demonstrates why New Labour were so hot on media handling.  Look what happens when they’re not.

The exchange in Turks & Caicos by David Hare feels appropriate too:

Whatever happened to shame?

Think it went the way of honour.

Dave wrote:

Also, get ready for Northern Ireland to get even more fucked over now that the Tories don’t need the DUP any more.

Unification within 20 years, mark my words.

So, what I’m hearing y’all say is Trump wins in 2020. Is that what you’re saying?

Wow. The turkeys have voted for Christmas. I hope Scotland has the balls to get out from under this mob of Alan Moore villains.

Y’all just got fucked.

 

lorcan_nagle wrote:

That the opinion polls got it wrong so badly in the direction they were already leaning makes me suspicious.

We read quite a lot of what we want into opinion polls though, a 10 point lead and a high end of 367 seats has been forecast all month. I think we were more hoping they’d be very wrong like in 2017.

If the exit polls are accurate it’s quite possibly the death of the left as a viable electoral force in the UK.

I’m not so sure, while I think it’s true that only using Brexit excuses the other failings of Corbyn and the campaign I think the Brexit element is pretty massive. You can see that in the differences in swings in leave and remain voting areas. As foolish as it may seem, as it doesn’t suddenly go away, people don’t want this dragging on for an eternity.

I don’t think traditional Labour voters are changing ideological stances here. They have been asking on the TV why people have switched and it has been ‘get Brexit done’ and Corbyn’s personal capability as 90% of the answers.

Brexit is now happening so that factor gets removed next election

 

 

 

Todd wrote:

So, what I’m hearing y’all say is Trump wins in 2020. Is that what you’re saying?

Oh, Trump is going to win unless his opponent is Sanders or maybe Warren.

I don’t think traditional Labour voters are changing ideological stances here. They have been asking on the TV why people have switched and it has been ‘get Brexit done’ and Corbyn’s personal capability as 90% of the answers

Brexit is now happening so that factor gets removed next election

I’m more thinking about internally in the Labour Party – the Blairite party wonks are going to see this as a repudiation of Corbybn’s left-wing policies and they’re going to try and push the party back to a centrist platform and keep it there

lorcan_nagle wrote:

the Blairite party wonks are going to see this as a repudiation of Corbybn’s left-wing policies

They already are and I saw Alastair Campbell saying that very strongly on the BBC just now. His assertion that the Momentum types would be deluded not to see they should have stood on a centrist firmly remain platform. However I think he’s equally deluded in his own bubble because clearly a remain stance would never have retained all those Labour seats in the firmly leave areas.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Todd wrote:

So, what I’m hearing y’all say is Trump wins in 2020. Is that what you’re saying?

Oh, Trump is going to win unless his opponent is Sanders or maybe Warren.

I’m on team Gabbard, cause that’s what my Russian facebook friends tell me to vote.

Being a bumbling oaf with a history of racist, sexist, homophobic comments is clearly no barrier to success.

Johnson went all in on Brexit when the referendum came along and now it’s paid off for him. Not the way he expected, not the way he probably wanted, but he hung in there and now he’s really the Prime Minister, not just a short term seat warmer.

I’ll read the analysis we’re going to be bombarded with over the next few weeks and months, but this was, in the end, about Brexit. It really is the will of the people.

I’m an atheist but, in my foxhole now, I’m wondering where I can find a Book of Common Prayer?

Johnson is on TV now, making no attempt at reconciliation or inclusion. He tells pro-EU voters and people who wanted a second referendum that it’s now time to “put a sock in it”.

I don’t think I’ve ever felt less like this is my country.

My local results put the Conservatives 4,000 votes over the Labour candidate.

Any guesses how many votes the Lib Dem candidate got?

They never had a chance in the seat, they just had a chance to deny the Conservatives the seat by stepping aside.

Jan 2020: “Leave” the EU.

Feb 2020: Be very, very quiet as we negotiate the next bit of what isn’t Brexit because that’s all done.

Longer term nothing changes due to Brexit in a positive sense, but it’s all someone else’s fault.  Rule #1: Never blame Boz.

I think we have to accept the fact the Britain is a right-wing country. This isn’t a new thing, it’s been true my entire adult life. The only time Labour won anything over the last 40 years is when Blair positioned the party further right. People don’t want a socialist government.

I don’t think I’d call the New Labour regime a right-wing government. I wouldn’t call it left-wing either. It certainly involved Labour moving to the right but I think they genuinely occupied a centre ground. But traditional harder-left Labour supporters will inevitably see that as a right-wing Labour government I suppose.

Dave wrote:

Johnson is on TV now, making no attempt at reconciliation or inclusion. He tells pro-EU voters and people who wanted a second referendum that it’s now time to “put a sock in it”.

I don’t think I’ve ever felt less like this is my country.

Sounds like a big girl’s blouse talking.

SteveUK wrote:

My local results put the Conservatives 4,000 votes over the Labour candidate.

Any guesses how many votes the Lib Dem candidate got?

They never had a chance in the seat, they just had a chance to deny the Conservatives the seat by stepping aside.

Yeah, the “Remain Alliance” concept turned out pretty shambolically in places. In my neighbouring constituency:

 

Dave wrote:

I don’t think I’d call the New Labour regime a right-wing government. I wouldn’t call it left-wing either. It certainly involved Labour moving to the right but I think they genuinely occupied a centre ground. But traditional harder-left Labour supporters will inevitably see that as a right-wing Labour government I suppose.

Neoliberalism is right-ring economics to its core.  New labour were better about sharing the wealth around than most neolib governments, but it is what it is.

Kensington is another interesting case, as tactical voting sites kept telling people to vote Lib Dem, even though it was a Labour seat and the LD candidate is former Tory Sam Gyiamah. The result:

Con	Felicity Buchan	16,768	38.3
Lab	Emma Dent Coad	16,618	38
Lib Dem	Sam Gyimah	9,312	21.3
Green	Vivien Lichtenstein	535	1.2

 

Ummm

 

why did you do that

Todd wrote:

So, what I’m hearing y’all say is Trump wins in 2020. Is that what you’re saying?

I think that Warren and Sanders and Bloomberg and Biden and Petey should take all their campaign money and funnel it to the non-Republican candidates for the 2020 Senatorial races. If Trump’s re-election is inevitable, the Democratic party’s best hope is to at least regain control of the Senate, taking Mitch McConnell’s rubber stamp out of Trump’s hands. Trump is a blowhard and a buffoon and an embarassment to the office of the Presidency, but McConnell has been the more dangerous person in Washington these last four years — witness the appointment of Kavanagh to the Supreme Court, the repeated defeats of Dem-sponsored bills to improve election security, gutting Obama-era measures relating to affordable health care, alternative energy, climate control, etc. As Senate majority leader, “Moscow Mitch” has abused his position to maintain party-line votes on every measure. He’s already decided to acquit Trump regardless of the outcome of the impeachment process.

Martin Smith wrote:

Kensington is another interesting case, as tactical voting sites kept telling people to vote Lib Dem

Some of those sites looked very dodgy. David Schneider shared one on Twitter and I looked at it and everyone commented underneath it was basically recommending Lib Dems for every seat, many where they were 3rd or 4th in 2017. He did delete it and replace it with a more accurate Guardian article but it was out there.

 

Martin Smith wrote:

Kensington is another interesting case, as tactical voting sites kept telling people to vote Lib Dem, even though it was a Labour seat and the LD candidate is former Tory Sam Gyiamah. The result:

Con	Felicity Buchan	16,768	38.3
Lab	Emma Dent Coad	16,618	38
Lib Dem	Sam Gyimah	9,312	21.3
Green	Vivien Lichtenstein	535	1.2

 

Man, results like that make me extra grateful for our preferential voting system.

Look at Ynys Mon:

It’ll be called a Conservative area now but 21,000 voted Labour and Plaid Cymru.

garjones wrote:

It’ll be called a Conservative area now but 21,000 voted Labour and Plaid Cymru.

First Past The Post fucking sucks.

All the bloody referendums we’ve endured, why couldn’t the AV one have had as much impact as the others.

Even if it had passed, anyone think Westminster would have hesitated to call the AV one merely “advisory”?

Vivien Liechtenstein is a top name, though.

You can have a PHD, be an author, and still be as thick as shit.

Disturbing that 1) Exit votes may announced before all votes counted, b) BBC, overseen by the current gov't, has a privileged position in announcing un-indendendently-verifiable results. Respectfully, this process is very un-transparent, unverifiable. https://t.co/gr1LJC0Dic

— Dr Naomi Wolf (@naomirwolf) December 12, 2019

Some of the responses are really funny as Dr Wolf once again gets the wrong end of the stick but feels the need to publicly announce it rather than just check it makes any sense.

Conservatives 13,966,451 votes, 365 seats.

Labour+Lib Dems+Greens 14,831,196 votes, 215 seats.

 

Yes, a slim majority of voters backed parties campaigning for a further referendum. That obviously should translate to a big majority for a Tory government who want to push forward with their chosen version of Brexit and ignore that. It’s the will of the people!

garjones wrote:

You can have a PHD, be an author, and still be as thick as shit.

Disturbing that 1) Exit votes may announced before all votes counted, b) BBC, overseen by the current gov't, has a privileged position in announcing un-indendendently-verifiable results. Respectfully, this process is very un-transparent, unverifiable. https://t.co/gr1LJC0Dic

— Dr Naomi Wolf (@naomirwolf) December 12, 2019

Some of the responses are really funny as Dr Wolf once again gets the wrong end of the stick but feels the need to publicly announce it rather than just check it makes any sense.

Naomi Wolf is the historian who’s recently released a book about executions of gay criminals in Victorian Britain that fundamentally misunderstood a key legal term, which completely undermined the entire argument of her book (and doctoral thesis) and only discovered this live in a radio interview with Matthew Sweet. (She has since doubled down, keeps insisting she’s right and everyone else is whitewashing history ).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-48639663/matthew-sweet-questions-key-evidence-in-naomi-wolf-s-new-book

 

It’s like someone tried to copy Naomi Klein and Michelle Wolf and went horribly wrong.

I assume out there somewhere there’s an amazing writer and comedian named Michelle Klein too.

Last Leg has so far been a perfect antidote to the last 24 hours of toxic shite.

Martin Smith wrote:

Naomi Wolf is the historian who’s recently released a book about executions of gay criminals in Victorian Britain

Yeah I’m very aware of that cockup too, hence the ‘once again’.

As you say though you have to admire her bravado in carrying on when she’s clearly wrong. On that exit poll one despite several hundred people pointing out she was talking nonsense she went and pinned it to the top of her Twitter feed.

Todd wrote:

So, what I’m hearing y’all say is Trump wins in 2020. Is that what you’re saying?

Trump not winning in the next election would be surprising. Even the majority of voters who are inclined against Trump have to admit that our lives haven’t significantly diminished under his time in office. The people who’ve suffered most cannot vote.

Meanwhile, the democratic candidates are busily spending millions tearing each other apart for the privilege of losing.

Dave wrote:

Yes. I am quite worried about what the next couple of years will bring, and not just on the Brexit front. It’s just about the worst outcome I could have expected.

Yeah, you people are really fucked. The Tories now have a licence to reconstruct the country following Brexit in whichever way they want, and since a lot will have to be restructed in the absence of EU law, you’ll all live to see a neo-liberalist dystopia established in your country.

Um.

I’d like to say something comforting, too, but… doesn’t feel like there is much comfort to be found right now. Boris turning the UK into a huge, de-regulated tax haven will also be a huge problem for the EU, so, you know, we’re still kind of in this together.

Christian wrote:

Dave wrote:

Yes. I am quite worried about what the next couple of years will bring, and not just on the Brexit front. It’s just about the worst outcome I could have expected.

Yeah, you people are really fucked. The Tories now have a licence to reconstruct the country following Brexit in whichever way they want, and since a lot will have to be restructed in the absence of EU law, you’ll all live to see a neo-liberalist dystopia established in your country.

Um.

I’d like to say something comforting, too, but… doesn’t feel like there is much comfort to be found right now. Boris turning the UK into a huge, de-regulated tax haven will also be a huge problem for the EU, so, you know, we’re still kind of in this together.

It’s cool, we’re getting 40 new hospitals!

I can see some candidates winning against Trump. Not Warren though, or Biden. Buttigieg can beat Trump, maybe Sanders, maybe Yang, maybe Gabbard.

Martin Smith wrote:

Christian wrote:

Dave wrote:

Yes. I am quite worried about what the next couple of years will bring, and not just on the Brexit front. It’s just about the worst outcome I could have expected.

Yeah, you people are really fucked. The Tories now have a licence to reconstruct the country following Brexit in whichever way they want, and since a lot will have to be restructed in the absence of EU law, you’ll all live to see a neo-liberalist dystopia established in your country.

Um.

I’d like to say something comforting, too, but… doesn’t feel like there is much comfort to be found right now. Boris turning the UK into a huge, de-regulated tax haven will also be a huge problem for the EU, so, you know, we’re still kind of in this together.

It’s cool, we’re getting 40 new hospitals!

Although 39 of those are just hospitals we’re choosing not to demolish. Which still counts under government calculations.

Well to be fair to the government, it would be silly to build that many new hospitals.

There aren’t enough doctors and nurses to staff them

Christian wrote:

Boris turning the UK into a huge, de-regulated tax haven will also be a huge problem for the EU, so, you know, we’re still kind of in this together.

Yep, Johnson is exactly the kind to go for ‘if I’m going down, everyone is coming with me’ strategy.

DavidM wrote:

There aren’t enough doctors and nurses to staff them

“They. Will. Be. Provided.”

 

We have a nurse shortage here as well. And a teacher shortage.

 

I think really the only obstacle to getting more of them is paying them a bit more. These aren’t bad jobs but they’re pretty tough jobs.

Christian wrote:

Dave wrote:

Yes. I am quite worried about what the next couple of years will bring, and not just on the Brexit front. It’s just about the worst outcome I could have expected.

Yeah, you people are really fucked. The Tories now have a licence to reconstruct the country following Brexit in whichever way they want, and since a lot will have to be restructed in the absence of EU law, you’ll all live to see a neo-liberalist dystopia established in your country.

Um.

I’d like to say something comforting, too, but… doesn’t feel like there is much comfort to be found right now. Boris turning the UK into a huge, de-regulated tax haven will also be a huge problem for the EU, so, you know, we’re still kind of in this together.

Opinion piece from USA Today:

Kamala Harris flames out: Black people didn’t trust her, and they were wise not to

Younger blacks and black progressives took a deeper, dispassionate dive into Kamala Harris’ real-world record. They didn’t like what they found

Anonymous wrote:

I can see some candidates winning against Trump. Not Warren though, or Biden. Buttigieg can beat Trump, maybe Sanders, maybe Yang, maybe Gabbard.

Gabbard couldn’t even win re-election.

As for Buttegieg, on one hand I’m not sure that even after Obergefall, America is ready for an LGBTQ POTUS. On the other hand, given who Trump is, it’s likely he’d attack Buttegieg over that very thing, which could be an autoloss depending on circumstances and how moderates are feeling.

Honestly, I think all the options are awful (except Tulsi of course.) I just think Buttigieg has a chance against Trump, not that he’d be any good as president.

Gabbard would certainly make for a hot Putin’s puppet.

Let’s be honest, that’s where most of her appeal comes from. For a presidential candidate, she’s decidedly ungrotesque, but it’s a low bar.

Anonymous wrote:

We have a nurse shortage here as well. And a teacher shortage.

Yeah, same here. And I agree: with nurses, we mostly need to pay them better. The other big aspect of it is though: We also need to hire more nurses. Spend more money on hospitals. Another reason why nursing has become unpopular is that it’s fucking exhausting because they’re constantly understaffed.

Improving working conditions and reducing workload would also be important steps for teachers. At least it would be in Germany, and I can see that the Netherlands are also on the upper end of the workload scale.

https://data.oecd.org/teachers/teaching-hours.htm

(It also seems that, like with Germany, secondary school teachers (so, like, me) are quite well-paid in the Netherlands, but primary school teaching is a really unattractive job, with a very high workload and comparatively little pay.)

 

Fun fact: I teach about 150 hours of lessons more in a year than a corresponding teacher in Finland does.

Second fun fact: Interestingly enough, all of the countries that did really well in the recent PISA study (like Finland) are on the lower end of teaching hours workload. What a surprise!

Anonymous wrote:

Gabbard would certainly make for a hot Putin’s puppet.

Everybody I don’t like is Putin’s puppet!

Christian wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We have a nurse shortage here as well. And a teacher shortage.

Yeah, same here. And I agree: with nurses, we mostly need to pay them better. The other big aspect of it is though: We also need to hire more nurses. Spend more money on hospitals. Another reason why nursing has become unpopular is that it’s fucking exhausting because they’re constantly understaffed.

Improving working conditions and reducing workload would also be important steps for teachers. At least it would be in Germany, and I can see that the Netherlands are also on the upper end of the workload scale.

https://data.oecd.org/teachers/teaching-hours.htm

(It also seems that, like with Germany, secondary school teachers (so, like, me) are quite well-paid in the Netherlands, but primary school teaching is a really unattractive job, with a very high workload and comparatively little pay.)

 

Fun fact: I teach about 150 hours of lessons more in a year than a corresponding teacher in Finland does.

Second fun fact: Interestingly enough, all of the countries that did really well in the recent PISA study (like Finland) are on the lower end of teaching hours workload. What a surprise!

Nurses barely get minimum wage here when they start out. It’s ridiculous.

If teachers are well paid what do you think is the cause of the teacher shortage in Germany? You could say workload but that is sort of a “egg or chicken” answer because if people signed up to become teachers more often it would automatically reduce the workload, right?

 

I think people shirk from having to deal with unruly teenagers, and this has become worse because of changes in our society. Where teachers were once respected authority figures, they’re more like targets now.

She’s widely known as being the Russian favourite, with an oversized volume of (favourable) coverage on RT and whatnot. It’s a bit dodgy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Gabbard would certainly make for a hot Putin’s puppet.

Everybody I don’t like is Putin’s puppet!

Dirkse’s Law: The longer an internet debate goes on, and Godwin’s Law is not activated, the chance of someone being called”Putin’s puppet” is equal to the chance of comparing them to Hitler

Kalman is Putin’s Puppet.

Puppetry is a bit archaic though. Putin must have mocap by now.

 

Or fembots…

Liz Hurley is Putin’s Puppet!

Well, any chance of Labour getting their shit together has gone out the window, as they fight among themselves like turds in the loo trying to avoid being flushed.

What I got from that is that Andy Serkis is Putin’s puppet….

The good news is that Jarjar may have been Putin’s puppet.

There’s A Gay Guy Dressing Up As Mike Pence Collecting Money For Planned Parenthood

Anonymous wrote:

The good news is that Jarjar may have been Putin’s puppet.

Hey, no spoilers for Rise of Skywalker please!

It turns out that Snoke was Jabba’s rancor trainer, who in a bid to get revenge on Luke, Han and Leia, used midichlorian steroids, which twisted his body, and all the events of the sequel trilogy are just the result of a crazed man avenging his pet monster.

Also, there’s a crossover with the MCU; Dr Strange appears to Rey, when he’s using the time stone to see all possibilities in Infinity War

Todd wrote:

There’s A Gay Guy Dressing Up As Mike Pence Collecting Money For Planned Parenthood

Three years too late to be posting this….

Christian wrote:

Second fun fact: Interestingly enough, all of the countries that did really well in the recent PISA study (like Finland) are on the lower end of teaching hours workload. What a surprise!

That is a surprise. Surely practice makes perfect

 

 

Anonymous wrote:

We have a nurse shortage here as well. And a teacher shortage.

 

I think really the only obstacle to getting more of them is paying them a bit more. These aren’t bad jobs but they’re pretty tough jobs.

I think another part of the problem in the UK is that they raised the education barrier to becoming a nurse. You now need a degree in nursing, which never used to be the case. I’m sure that’s going to put off some people who would otherwise have picked it as a career.

Anonymous wrote:

Todd wrote:

There’s A Gay Guy Dressing Up As Mike Pence Collecting Money For Planned Parenthood

Three years too late to be posting this….

It’s never too late.

In all seriousness…

What can the Dems learn from the UK election in a cautionary way?

Al-x wrote:

In all seriousness…

What can the Dems learn from the UK election in a cautionary way?

If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.

Al-x wrote:

What can the Dems learn from the UK election in a cautionary way?

I think a limited amount. The two repeated issues they saw when people were surveyed were Brexit and the personal ratings of Jeremy Corbyn. Neither would really be a factor in a US election.

One that could be was some analysis that has said Labour presented so many progressive policies that their impact got lost in the shuffle and some lacked faith in them being able to deliver them all. So if there is something to be learnt I would say it is stick with a couple of key policies like healthcare reform and just repeat that message. The rest can wait for if and when you gain power.

 

It’s difficult to know how much Brexit really swung things. As the election drew closer, surveys were saying that the NHS was the top concern among voters.

But if true, that means a majority of the defecting Labour voters believed Boris Johnson’s promises on the NHS. Which frankly seems inconceivable. I can understand people thinking he was the only man who could “get Brexit done”, but the Tory record on the NHS is… well, a matter of record

 

DavidM wrote:

It’s difficult to know how much Brexit really swung things. As the election drew closer, surveys were saying that the NHS was the top concern among voters.

But if true, that means a majority of the defecting Labour voters believed Boris Johnson’s promises on the NHS. Which frankly seems inconceivable. I can understand people thinking he was the only man who could “get Brexit done”, but the Tory record on the NHS is… well, a matter of record

 

The Tories only increased their vote share by 1%.  Traditional Labour voters went to the Lib Dems, and for some reason the Brexit Party instead.

I think the Dems could learn from what Gareth posted…

Try not to promise too much especially these over the top promises.

Al-x wrote:

In all seriousness…

What can the Dems learn from the UK election in a cautionary way?

People outside your bubble vote too.

Al-x wrote:

I think the Dems could learn from what Gareth posted…

Try not to promise too much especially these over the top promises.

This was one of the findings from our Labor party’s loss in May – for the first time in a generation a party went to the election with a massive slate of big, bold, policies.

It’s always been a small target strategy instead – and it will be again next time seeing as how the election went. I follow politics closely and even I missed some of the policies.

Al-x wrote:

In all seriousness…

What can the Dems learn from the UK election in a cautionary way?

Stop relying on polls.

njerry wrote:

Al-x wrote:

In all seriousness…

What can the Dems learn from the UK election in a cautionary way?

Stop relying on polls.

That too – polls here had Labor ahead for pretty much the three years prior to the election.

Sooooo….

We’re not gonna address the elephant in the room?

No?

In real terms does anything change? Does it matter?

njerry wrote:

Al-x wrote:

In all seriousness…

What can the Dems learn from the UK election in a cautionary way?

Stop relying on polls.

The polls weren’t all that inaccurate this time around.

The polls are rarely inaccurate.  Worst case scenario is that the question being asked isn’t exactly right – in 2016, the overall number of Clinton voters was accurate to polls – but the polling didn’t take the distribution of voters into account.

Similarly, in Ireland during the abortion referendum, the polling in the papers was much closer than the result on the day, because they included “don’t know/undecided” answers.  When they were removed the percentages work out very close to the skew on the day- which was something we were aware of at the time, but wanted to hedge our bets.

What can the Dems learn from the UK election?

Don’t fight with yourselves is a good message.

The Labour Party’s most senior members were divided over Corbyn in a way you don’t often see, fortunately. At the same time he gathered a lot of grass roots support and increased party membership.

We’ll see if a more centrist figure can re-unite things, but the risk is that all those who joined or were pleased to have someone more like a traditional Labour politician in charge will rebel against any attempt to re-introduced a Blair v2.0.

So the Dems can try and avoid that sort of horrible mess.

The opposition vote was split across two parties, plus protest votes. That’s not the way American politics works, so they don’t have to worry about a version of the Lib Dems pointlessly getting in the way.

Have a clear message. Boris had Brexit. He had other things to say, but mostly he stuck to a single platform. Labour wasn’t offering a clear enough alternative. More negotiations and another referendum makes sense, but it looks complicated, because it is.

Al-x wrote:

In all seriousness…

What can the Dems learn from the UK election in a cautionary way?

If there’s rumors that people in your party are advocating genocide, do something (even if it’s Fake News- I don’t know enough to say).

Again it’s difficult to know how much the antisemetism charges hurt Corbyn. For every Jew that said “I could never vote for Corbyn” there was another who said “It’s all bollocks he hasn’t got an antisemitic bone in his body”, so amongst the Jewish community at least it probably blanaced out. And quite honestly, being anti-anything is a minor issue at best for the rest of the voters who aren’t in the target group.

The weight of evidence suggests Corbyn isn’t and never has been antisemitic. Almost certainly there are elements in the Labour Party that were and are — but show me any body of people where that isn’t true. I doubt that it is even disproportionately large in the Labour party.

I think the biggest effect of it, though, was the perception that he was slow and ineffective in dealing with it. It was one more piece of evidence that he was a weak leader. Being cynical, he should have siezed the opportunity antisemitism gave him to make some big and obvious gestures and good soundbites, and looked decisive and effectual in dealing with it. Whether he was dealing with it properly or not–or even whether it really exists or not–is less important than giving the media the appearance that you’re dealing with it. Which he utterly failed to do.

I mean, if antisemitism didn’t exist, a good PR flack should be manufacturing it, just so the party leader can look good subsequently squashing it on TV. That’s how you win hearts and minds.