"They are politicians!" – the Politics thread

Topic

Sponsored by General Martok, (Lord Vetinari declined to be involved) here’s the thread for covering political goings on.

Replies

Independent Group for Change leader Anna Soubry has criticised the Lib Dems and SNP for putting forward their own plans for an early election on 9 December.
In a message to party supporters, the ex-Conservative MP has accused them of having “turned their back” on the People’s Vote campaign for a further Brexit referendum.
An early election, she says, will “resolve nothing,” adding that another EU referendum is the “only way out of the Brexit crisis”.
“I am sorry to say that old style, selfish, tribal party politics is at play,” she adds.
The Independent Group for Change is made up five of former Conservative and Labour MPs.

Translation: Independent Group for Change MPs don’t want to find themselves without a job just before Christmas.

The Lib Dems hope to pick up a lot of anti-Brexit votes. They’re getting impatient.

Heh.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50205592

The Washington Post faced criticism on Sunday for calling Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of the Islamic State group who had died the day before, an “austere religious scholar”.

The newspaper amended its headline to call him an “extremist leader”.

Vice president of communications Kristine Coratti Kelly said the headline “should never have read that way and we changed it quickly”.

Baghdadi detonated a suicide vest during a raid by US special forces.

His death was announced by President Trump in a nationally televised address on Sunday.

The first version of the Washington Post’s headline called Baghdadi “terrorist-in-chief”, before it was changed to “austere religious scholar at the helm of Islamic State”.

The Post faced serious criticism on social media, but many took the opportunity to poke fun at headline using the hashtag #WaPoDeathNotices – tweeting mock headlines for obituaries of notorious figures from history.

“Adolf Hitler, dedicated art enthusiast, animal rights activist, and talented orator, dies at 56,” read one.

“Ted Bundy, meticulous researcher, charismatic figure, and Polaroid enthusiast, dead at 42”, read another, in reference to the infamous serial killer.

The Washington Post finally settled on “Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, extremist leader of Islamic State, dies at 48.”

Bloody idiots.
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Whoever thought up the “austere” headline needs (as is often said in clueless, tone-deaf situations) to get out more.

Christian wrote:

Jon wrote:

Holy shit, a new song from MAGADETH!!!

No but seriously… way to ruin a classic… u_u

<iframe title=”Hellsongs – Symphony Of Destruction (OFFICIAL VIDEO)” width=”1060″ height=”795″ src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/Xecz3VdPixM?feature=oembed&#8221; frameborder=”0″ allow=”accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture” allowfullscreen=””></iframe>

 
That’s actually a great cover… although I don’t like the video… but those guys have some really nice ones. The AC/DC one is my fav tho, this Megadeth one is my 2nd fav.

[Christian]

Anonymous wrote:

I’m pretty sure government institutions have never destroyed information to avoid getting caught.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra%5B/quote%5D
*
MKUltra is a great example though, because that stuff have been declassified and you can actually read the original documents detailing the crazy shit that went on there.

Jonny is right about everything he’s saying about whistleblowers and things still getting buried, of course, but you still have to admire the Freedom of Information Act and its declassification rules. We don’t have anything like it in Germany.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Christian.

Jon wrote:

That’s actually a great cover… although I don’t like the video… but those guys have some really nice ones. The AC/DC one is my fav tho, this Megadeth one is my 2nd fav.

I saw them play live a few years ago, at a small venue. It was an awesome night!

Christian wrote:

arjandirkse wrote:

I’m pretty sure government institutions have never destroyed information to avoid getting caught.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra%5B/quote%5D
*
MKUltra is a great example though, because that stuff have been declassified and you can actually read the original documents detailing the crazy shit that went on there.

Jonny is right about everything he’s saying about whistleblowers and things still getting buried, of course, but you still have to admire the Freedom of Information Act and its declassification rules. We don’t have anything like it in Germany.

How does this work? I assume not everything gets declassified automatically, you need to request for something to be declassified. So if you don’t know about the existence of any documents you can’t ask for them to be declassified. It’s a good principle but I am not sure how well it works out.

I work for a municipal government and dealt with FOIA requests. Some things from my experience:
– You only have to give documents that you have. If you don’t have them, you do not have to create anything to provide the requested information. Depending on the information, you may only be required to keep certain documents for a specific amount of time. (This is the retention period.) After that, they can be destroyed. Certain types of documents can never be destroyed.
– Birthdays and license plate numbers have to be redacted.
– We, as a city, can write the State Attorney General to make a case why we should not release information. If we have been asked to release information pertaining to a specific vendor, we have to contact them to make sure there is no confidential information they do not wat released. If that is the case
– As a city, we have ten (10) days to respond to the request.
– We can charge them for copies, flash drives, and other costs pertaining to the retrieval of the information.
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To get a feel for some of this, here is the link for the State of Texas: https://www.tsl.texas.gov/slrm/rrs4

Yeah but you do have to know project MKULTRA exists before you can ask dcuments about it. Or do you just ask for all documents on all current US government brainwashing programs?

edit: that’s a reply to Ben, not Todd

I think it all varies by country.

The UK has a policy that declassifies all documents after 30 years, it’s quite fun to read when they do it once a year.

The Freedom of Information Act has more limitations on it. It is more data based and not things like minutes of cabinet meetings or letters and emails.

Al-Baghdadi is dead? I think this is appropriate:

The general query is one you can ask for Arjan, but as to what you’ll get….

There’s also a case for knowing where to direct your query. For instance people assume the Mayor of London is akin to a Council, but it’s a regional authority with powers and responsibilities distinctly different, doesn’t stop FOIs coming in that assume the former.

Edit:nvm

I have to be skeptical of the FOI thing, it will work sometimes but I think there is some information you just don’t get. What if I asked for the notes from the meeting where they decided they were going to pin 911 on Saddam and use it as an excuse to attack him?

[Ben]

If you just want to engage in conspiracy bollocks, do that and don’t ask questions you don’t actually want the answers to.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Ben.

Commemorative coins minted to mark Brexit on 31 October will be “recycled” after the UK’s exit from the EU was delayed by a further three months.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50215983

Massive delays in completing an issue… pulping an entire print run because of a change of policy… sometimes I’m not sure if I’m reading about Brexit or DC comics

Anonymous wrote:

I have to be skeptical of the FOI thing, it will work sometimes but I think there is some information you just don’t get. What if I asked for the notes from the meeting where they decided they were going to pin 911 on Saddam and use it as an excuse to attack him?

FOI requests usually come with an administration charge – so im guessin in America its probably a couple of 100 us dollars. Maybe Todd can tell us.

I don’t think anyone hear knows the answer to this question for sure, but are you willing to part with your hard earned cash to find out the answer for us?

They do? Shit, my org needs to start charging!

[Todd]

Here is the US government website for making FOIA requests: https://www.foia.gov/
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From the website homepage:

Before making a request, first see if the information is already publicly available. You can find a lot of useful information on individual agency websites and you can also search across the government for information.
If the information you want is not publicly available, you can submit a FOIA request.

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It’s important that you identify the correct agency for your request. There are over 100 agencies and each is responsible for handling its own FOIA requests. You can find a breakdown of agencies by topic on USA.gov to help you identify the correct agency. You may also search for agencies using the search bar below.

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The agency will typically first search for the records and then review them to determine what can be disclosed. While FOIA allows for many records to be released, there are also nine exemptions that protect certain types of information, such as personal privacy and law enforcement interests. The length of time to respond to your request will vary depending on its complexity and any backlog of requests.

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Here are the exemptions:

1. Protects information that is properly classified under criteria established by an Executive Order to be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy.
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2. Protects information related solely to the internal personnel rules and practices of an agency.
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3. Protects information specifically exempted from disclosure by another statute, if that statute either: (1) requires that the matters be withheld from the public in such a manner as to leave no discretion on the issue; or (2) establishes particular criteria for withholding or refers to particular types of matters to be withheld. An Exemption 3 statute must also cite specifically to subsection (b)(3) of the FOIA if enacted after October 28, 2009.
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4. Protects trade secrets and commercial or financial information that is obtained from outside the government and that is privileged or confidential.
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5. Protects certain records exchanged within or between agencies that are normally privileged in the civil discovery context, such as records protected by the deliberative process privilege (provided the records are less than 25 years old), attorney work-product privilege, or attorney client privilege.
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6. Protects information about individuals in personnel and medical files and similar files when the disclosure of that information would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.
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7. Protects records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information:
(A) could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings;
(B) would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication;
(C) could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy;
(D) could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of a confidential source, including a state, local, or foreign agency or authority or any private institution which furnished information on a confidential basis. In the case of a record or information compiled by a criminal law enforcement authority in the course of a criminal investigation or by an agency conducting a lawful national security intelligence investigation, it also protects information furnished by the confidential source;
(E) would disclose techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions, or would disclose guidelines for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions if such disclosure could reasonably be expected to risk circumvention of the law;
(F) could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or physical safety of any individual.
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8. Protects information contained in or related to examination, operating, or condition reports prepared by, on behalf of, or for the use of, an agency responsible for the regulation or supervision of financial institutions.
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9. Protects geological and geophysical information and data, including maps, concerning wells.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Todd.

Ben wrote:

If you just want to engage in conspiracy bollocks, do that and don’t ask questions you don’t actually want the answers to.

The conspiracy bollocks I like to engage in involves asking those questions!

#WaPoDeathNotice
Adolf Hitler, 56, Austere political philosopher, Bestselling author, Causer of "Peace in our time", Amateur Artist, Disney enthusiast, Car designer, and Freeway builder found dead hours after own wedding.

— Kalman Linietsky (@KLinietsky) October 29, 2019

The WaPo was actually right about Baghdadi, except for the austere thing. He was definitely a religious scholar.

Anonymous wrote:

The WaPo was actually right about Baghdadi, except for the austere thing. He was definitely a religious scholar.

The point is that there was no mention of him as a terrorist in the headline. Also, I’ve heard some Islamopobes are claiming “even WaPo is admitting that being a terrorist is part and parcel of being a Muslim religious scholar”, and that some on the far, far Right aare saying that “they are exnoerating ISIS because Trump killed him” so there’s thos aspect

I know, I know, I’m just saying technically it’s not wrong. It’s just really stupid (not to mention hilarious). Obviously being a religious scholar wasn’t his main claim to fame.

I’m OK with any religious scholar as long as they don’t try to force their views on anyone else. Anyone can preach anything they want as long as others don’t have to follow their rules.

Ben wrote:

They do? Shit, my org needs to start charging!

That surprises me. Maybe it’s just Australias way of putting a deterrent.

There’s a uniform fee base for us, which can increse if the request is particularpu vonplivated ot time consuming.

Anonymous wrote:

There’s a uniform fee base for us, which can increse if the request is particularpu vonplivated ot time consuming.

Well, Tim’s started drinking early today.

Dave wrote:

Tim wrote:

There’s a uniform fee base for us, which can increse if the request is particularpu vonplivated ot time consuming.

Well, Tim’s started drinking early today.

It’s Aussie legalese

Anonymous wrote:

<twitter-widget class=”twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered” id=”twitter-widget-0″ style=”position: static; visibility: visible; display: block; transform: rotate(0deg); max-width: 100%; width: 550px; min-width: 220px; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;” data-tweet-id=”1189232410132660224″></twitter-widget>
<script async=”” src=”https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js&#8221; charset=”utf-8″></script>

UPDATE: Hitler's newlywed bride, Eva (nee Braun), has also been found dead. Sources claim that the couple committed double suicide over politics.#WaPoDeathNotices

— Kalman Linietsky (@KLinietsky) October 29, 2019

Anonymous wrote:

DaveWallace wrote:

Tim wrote:

There’s a uniform fee base for us, which can increse if the request is particularpu vonplivated ot time consuming.

Well, Tim’s started drinking early today.

It’s Aussie legalese

Or he’s having a stroke.

Oh boy, another general election. When I were a lad, general elections were a rare and special thing, but now they’re so frequent they’ve been devalued, like billion dollar-grossing movies or a knighthood.

Pretty much the same thing.

#WaPoDeathNotices
The doctor claims that Mr. Hitler took a sample of the poison and retreated to his private quarters with his bride, where he immediately took a lethal dose, and shot himself. Mrs. Hitler also took a lethal dose, leading to her death.

— Kalman Linietsky (@KLinietsky) October 29, 2019

rory wrote:

Pretty much the same thing.

Knighthood and a Billion-dollar Movie or a stroke and Aussie legalese (or a stroke and drinking, or drinking and Aussie legalese)? I don’t know if you’re replying to Martin or Todd.

Chuck Schumer ‘Increasingly Worried’ Trump Will Shut Down Government Over Impeachment

WASHINGTON ― Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Monday he’s concerned about the possibility that President Donald Trump refuses to sign a bill funding the government over the ongoing Democratic House impeachment inquiry.

“I’m increasingly worried that President Trump may want to shut down the government again because of impeachment … He always likes to create diversions,” Schumer said during a weekly press conference on Tuesday.

Todd wrote:

KalmanL wrote:

DaveWallace wrote:

Tim wrote:

There’s a uniform fee base for us, which can increse if the request is particularpu vonplivated ot time consuming.

Well, Tim’s started drinking early today.

It’s Aussie legalese

Or he’s having a stroke.

It’s obviously both.

I post a lot from my phone and I turned off autocorrect because it’s annoying, so my posts probably seem lazy.

I was going for ‘particularly complicated’

Dave wrote:

Well, Tim’s started drinking early today.

*Throws Bottle at Dave*

Your face …

…is drinking….

#WaPoDeathNotice
Austere Religious Scholar, Grand Inquisitor Tomás de Torquemada, proponent of religious unity and alternative interrogation techniques, described by Historian S. de Olmedo as "The light of Spain", passed after years of illness at 77. Nobody expected this.

— Kalman Linietsky (@KLinietsky) October 30, 2019

Are these all just posts of your own tweets?

Shit, Assange could have avoided this if he just did a freedom of information request, I am sure they would have given him everything they had.

I don’t think anyone here is fundamentally disagreeing that Freedom of Information is limitless.

Supplemental: I’m going to have to opt out of discussing Assange. Ive almost lost non-internet friends to my opinions. Id hate to lose actual internet ones!

Yeah, you just get the stuff they didn’t burn. ;)

Dave wrote:

Are these all just posts of your own tweets?

It could be another Kalman Linietsky.

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah, you just get the stuff they didn’t burn. ;)

You’re being absurd, Arjan.

Shredding is far more efficient to ensure any readability is destroyed.

Anonymous wrote:

Supplemental: I’m going to have to opt out of discussing Assange. Ive almost lost non-internet friends to my opinions. Id hate to lose actual internet ones!

I have my opinions about the Assange case but I wouldn’t have anything against anyone else for having another opinion. I’m not that stupid.

Dave wrote:

Are these all just posts of your own tweets?

That one deserved an upvote for “Nobody expected this” though

Anonymous wrote:

Tim wrote:

Supplemental: I’m going to have to opt out of discussing Assange. Ive almost lost non-internet friends to my opinions. Id hate to lose actual internet ones!

I have my opinions about the Assange case but I wouldn’t have anything against anyone else for having another opinion. I’m not that stupid.

As with most of my opinions, they involve lengthy preamble, navel-gazing, and meditation on the nature of the question, before side stepping the initial question in an oblique way.

I won’t subject you to that…

… further

Anonymous wrote:

Ive almost lost non-internet friends to my opinions. Id hate to lose actual internet ones!

Don’t worry, Tim; nobody here likes you anyway!

Except for you, right Jerry?

That’s what you’re saying, right?

The Adventures of Jerry and Tim: Super Best friends Forever!

Bernie Sanders calls for cutting aid to Israel and redirecting it to provide humanitarian assistance to Gaza. pic.twitter.com/cINU4lCMfl

— Zach Carter (@zachjcarter) October 28, 2019

Bernie making aid to Israel dependent on how they treat Gaza. Whoops, guess that’s it for the Bern.

Bernie was done long before this point.

njerry wrote:

Tim wrote:

Ive almost lost non-internet friends to my opinions. Id hate to lose actual internet ones!

Don’t worry, Tim; nobody here likes you anyway!

We don’t like Tim.
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We LOVE him, but only if he is holding a puppy.

Former Rep. Katie Hill’s father pushes for prosecution of ‘evil’ estranged husband

The father of former Rep. Katie Hill, who stepped down this week after nude photos of her were leaked amid allegations of inappropriate sexual relations with a congressional staffer, attacked his daughter’s estranged husband as “wicked” and “evil” on Tuesday.

“I have remained silent and watched as Katie and our entire family has had to endure the spectacle created when her estranged husband, sent ‘revenge porn’ to RedState and/or some other British tabloid,” Michael Hill said in a statement given exclusively to ABC News. “The fact that Kenny Heslep would do such a thing is unfathomable and appalling, especially considering that they were together since Katie was in high school and this is a woman that he purportedly loved and cared about.”

DavidM wrote:

DaveWallace wrote:

Are these all just posts of your own tweets?

That one deserved an upvote for “Nobody expected this” though

That was actually an unexpected phrasing itself; I wanted to say “His controversial legacy led to some of the most famous skits of British comedy troupe “Monty Python””, but Twitter’s character limit wouldn’t allow it; I wanted to put in that nod because I was racking (pun unintended) my brain for a “Violent non-Muslim Religious Leader that people would get from the description, yet wouldn’t offend a significant portion of their religion if compared to Baghdadi” and I finally thought “What about the first Grand Inquisitor of Spain?” and then “Why didn’t I think of the Spanish Inquisition?” which I answered with the thought “Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition”.

I’m posting one last one of mine because it is related to comics:

#WaPoDeathNotice
Thanos, Fighter for balance and resource control, loving adopted father of two girls who survived horrifying invasions of there native lands, and gem collector, was killed at an unknown age at his farm retreat by vigilante terrorist group "The Avengers"

— Kalman Linietsky (@KLinietsky) October 30, 2019

Just One more:

#WaPoDeathNotice
Austere Head of State, Viktor Von Doom of Latveria, genius inventor, austere scholar of world religion, user of magic, stronger believer in and fighter for self-determination for Roma people, dead at unreleased age, of unknown causes.
Terrorists "FF" suspect.

— Kalman Linietsky (@KLinietsky) October 31, 2019

I’m done.

They didn’t claim the USA was terrorists in the original headline.

Memes mutate- people are jumping on the idea that if the headline made Baghdadi out to be a positive figure, there is an implication that it was wrong to kill him. As the meme loses its novelty, people (including myself) are expressing that idea outright.

Anonymous wrote:

As the meme loses its novelty

I think this happened a while ago.

You know what happened a while ago

*narrows eyes*

Your

Face

The Lib Dems have found a whole new level of misleading electoral bar charts.

Note the small print.

…and still managed to lose

DavidM wrote:

…and still managed to lose

Yep, that’s the really sad thing.
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Also, the numbers from their dodgy poll don’t even add up. They’re 6% short.

This is why they’re the Continuity Tories

Is the Youtube ad algorithm drunk? I just got a political ad for a candidate for Arizona’s Senate seat.

More Katie Price news:

Rep. Katie Hill, freshman targeted by revenge porn, resigns with a blast at Trump

“I’m leaving because there is only one investigation that deserves this country’s attention,” Hill said, referring to the impeachment inquiry that the House voted hours earlier to formalize.

“The forces of revenge by a bitter, jealous man, cyber-exploitation, and sexual shaming that target our gender and a large segment of society that fears and hates powerful women have combined to push a young woman out of power and say that she doesn’t belong here,” Hill said. “Yet a man who brags about his sexual predation, who’s had dozens of women come forward to accuse him of sexual assault, who pushes policies that are uniquely harmful to women and who has filled the courts with judges who proudly rule to deprive women of the most fundamental right to control their own bodies, sits in the highest office in the land.

“And so today, as my last vote, I voted on impeachment proceedings, not just because of corruption, obstruction of justice or gross misconduct, but because of the deepest abuse of power, including the abuse of power over women.”

By ‘Katie Price’ you mean…

Anonymous wrote:

By ‘Katie Price’ you mean…

Jordan.

The country, or my friend Jordan the physical education teacher?

No.

Few! The article would be very confusing otherwise!

The young never vote, the young never vote…. What do you mean loads of signed up in the last 24 hours? Fuuuuuccck.

Too late now.

Ben wrote:

The young never vote, the young never vote…. What do you mean loads of signed up in the last 24 hours? Fuuuuuccck.

Too late now.

We did a huge voter drive last year before the abortion referendum, and there’s a great video of an older man screaming at a line of students registering in their college because it was evidence we were cheating… By motivating eligible voters?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/10/turkey-hundreds-arrested-in-crackdown-on-critics-of-military-offensive-in-Syria/

Hundreds of people have been detained in Turkey for commenting or reporting on Turkey’s recent military offensive in northeast Syria and are facing absurd criminal charges as the government intensifies its crackdown on critical voices, said Amnesty International in a report published today.

‘We can’t complain’ reveals how last month’s offensive – Operation Peace Spring – was accompanied by a wave of repression in Turkey which swept up anyone who deviated from the government’s official line. Journalists, social media users and protesters have been accused of “terrorism” and subjected to criminal investigation, arbitrary detention and travel bans. If prosecuted and found guilty, they could face lengthy prison sentences.

“As the tanks rolled across the Syrian border, the government took the opportunity to launch a domestic campaign to eradicate dissenting opinions from media, social media and the streets. Critical discussion on issues of Kurdish rights and politics has become even further off limits,” said Amnesty International’s Europe Director, Marie Struthers.

“Language around the military incursion was heavily policed, and hundreds of people who expressed their dissenting opinions about Turkey’s military operation were rounded up and are facing investigations under anti-terrorism laws.”

Anonymous wrote:

Is the Youtube ad algorithm drunk? I just got a political ad for a candidate for Arizona’s Senate seat

It is weird the way the political machine works (or doesn’t). I got a survey call for a local election the other day. They were asking about the candidates for a particular city office and whether this or that piece of information makes it more likely or less likely for me to support one candidate over another. I had the time to do the survey and I knew people who had those jobs, so I went through it.

However, on the call, I realized they were asking me about how I might be voting on an election in which I had already voted back in August. Actually, there had been two elections for that office because two candidates for the previous election had essentially tied, so they needed another run-off to decide between the two. I was wondering if there would be yet another one, but no. It turned out they were asking about a race that had been decided two months earlier.

The interesting thing about local races is that increasingly the candidates are not running overtly as Republican or Democrat. They certainly are usually one or the other, but I think voters are increasingly dissatisfied with the two parties nationally and end up taking it out on their local officials and candidates.

Anonymous wrote:

By ‘Katie Price’ you mean…

That was me having a premature senior moment.

So, what, did you Brits look over here and see Donald Trump and think “Shit, we need to get one of those, too!”

My political coping strategy mechanism is back – new series of The Last Leg!

Oh and this:

And this one:

My friend who is reasonably well versed in the European political landscape says Cornyn has virtually no chance in December and Boris will get back in.

Is that the general consensus? If so,l that’s pretty disappointing.

It’s more complex than that. Corbyn has virtually no chance of winning an outright majority but equally Johnson isn’t guaranteed one either, there’s a resurgence from the Liberal Democrats which could take Tory seats. Both men have poor popularity ratings (but Corbyn’s are worse).
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So depending how the seats fall there’s a good chance of a coalition or confidence and supply agreement needed. That could favour Corbyn more as he has more natural allies now. Only really the DUP with 10 seats look likely to support the Conservatives now, as they have been doing since 2017.
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The big unknown piece will all be about turnout. Politics in Britain has become defined by age more than ever before, more that rural and urban or rich and poor as it was in the past. The younger you are the more likely to vote Labour, the older you are it’ll be Tory. So whether Labour activists can inspire the sometimes apathetic youngsters to turn out will make a significant difference.

Yep. It’s also difficult to gauge how much the Brexit party could act as a spoiler for the Tory vote – how much support they could leech in constituencies where the Tory margin is fairly slim.

The timing of the election itself also makes a bit of a difference in terms of campaigning and turnout in general – it can be harder to motivate people to leave the house in the cold winter months.

There’s also a sense of weariness and exasperation among older voters that could lead to poor turnout. Coupled with the reported surge in young voter registrations that could end up being a factor.

In short, there are loads of unknowns here and no-one really knows! But a Corbyn/Labour majority is seen as very unlikely.

Anonymous wrote:

I have to be skeptical of the FOI thing, it will work sometimes but I think there is some information you just don’t get. What if I asked for the notes from the meeting where they decided they were going to pin 911 on Saddam and use it as an excuse to attack him?

I suspect they’d still be locked down on account of security concerns, but like I said, that’ll get harder as they get older. As for the cost and the work of requesting documents, there seem to be transparency NGOs taking care of that.
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To take an example that is quite similar to what you mentioned, this is how we know the details of Iran Contra.

The scandal was compounded when Oliver North destroyed or hid pertinent documents between 21 November and 25 November 1986. During North’s trial in 1989, his secretary, Fawn Hall, testified extensively about helping North alter, shred, and remove official United States National Security Council (NSC) documents from the White House. According to The New York Times, enough documents were put into a government shredder to jam it.[41] North’s explanation for destroying some documents was to protect the lives of individuals involved in Iran and Contra operations.[41] It was not until 1993, years after the trial, that North’s notebooks were made public, and only after the National Security Archive and Public Citizen sued the Office of the Independent Counsel under the Freedom of Information Act.[41]

(wiki)
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I guess my point is this: I am not saying that the Freedom of Information act automatically guarantees total transparency or that no shady stuff happens in governmnet, or the intelligence business. Absolutely not. But it does on the other hand seem to be an efficient tool to at least shed some light on the goings-ons after the fact, and give a level of transparency to the public from that distance in time. Also, I think it’s pretty fucking cool that anyone can now just read original CIA memos showing what they were doing in Iran in the eighties like this one:
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0001296188.pdf
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And I’m kind of envious. I don’t know about the Netherlands, but like I said, I think we’re missing this kind of process in Germany.

Hmmm

Whats Corbyns position on Brexit?

Will he be the great saviour, solver and fixer?

Changes depending on the time of day, phase of the moon, wind direction, poll data.

Forgive my brashness but sounds like your pretty much fucked then.

Shit, America, you pretty much have to impeach Trump so we have at least one good thing happen in 2020.

Anonymous wrote:

Hmmm

Whats Corbyns position on Brexit?

Will he be the great saviour, solver and fixer?

Labour party policy is to:
Negotiate a different deal with the EU.
Run a second referendum between that and remaining.

Which isn’t that complicated a position, frankly (though I doubt the rest of the EU would be too impressed at having to reopen negotiations).

What’s the motivation to negotiate a legitimate deal for the brexitets?
It smells like stop gap to a referendum to remain.

I’d be okay with that as I think it’s ultimately the best result but I foresee intense criticism against the legitimacy of any corbyn-negotiated deal.

Martin Smith wrote:

Which isn’t that complicated a position, frankly (though I doubt the rest of the EU would be too impressed at having to reopen negotiations)

Given that Labour have been pretty clear that they would be negotiating a much closer and more aligned deal with the EU, I think they would probably find it preferable to Johnson’s latest version of the May deal.

Anonymous wrote:

What’s the motivation to negotiate a legitimate deal for the brexitets?

To give both Leave and Remain supporters a reason to back Labour, basically.

I think the Queen should ask to remain.

I like her, she’s got spunk, and I think people would listen to her if she asked.

Give that man a TimTam!

Anonymous wrote:

I think the Queen should ask to remain.

I like her, she’s got spunk, and I think people would listen to her if she asked.

I mean, if you believe some people, she has, through the medium of hat symbology.

Anonymous wrote:

What’s the motivation to negotiate a legitimate deal for the brexitets?

Essentially Labour’s stance has always been to remain in a customs union, which was a red line for May and Johnson. The main benefit of that is the Northern Ireland border problem disappears and economic disruption is minimised because businesses aren’t hit by tariffs etc.
.
The downside, depending on your point of view, is that ties you into certain regulations despite having officially left. It’s essentially the ‘soft Brexit’ option.
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The EU would prefer that so in theory would agree to it but their patience has been very much tested by the UK faffing about with this whole process. It’s unlikely Labour would get a clear majority so it could be stuck at deadlock in Parliament again.

I think a deadlock again is quite likely to be honest. I wouldn’t be surprised if the result of the election ended up being very similar to 2017.