Talk politics here.
The Politics Thread
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The consequences are starting to affect everyone. I personally have someone in my family who was diagnosed with an aggressive, rare and fatal form of cancer. They needed immediate surgery, but no ICU beds were available for a week due to Covid patients.
Even after canceling all elective surgeries, the ICU beds that opened up were immediately grabbed primarily for COVID cases and all of them were unvaccinated patients at this hospital.
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But I think if before all this started you would have predicted some doctors refusing to treat unvaccinated patients, people would laugh and call you paranoid, but that’s where we are now, in the US anyway
And if people acted responsibly doctors wouldn’t have to make decisions like this to protect the rest of their patients.
I’ve also seen people on social media gleefully pointing out that more Republicans than Democrats are dying from covid, which would benefit democrats in elections.
Well, if assholes are acting like assholes on social media, we should give the other assholes a break and let them continue to be a danger to public health?
without vax you’re a 2nd rate citizen who can’t go anywhere.
They’re not second rate citizens, they’re selfish shits who refuse to do the most basic of health precautions to keep themselves and everyone else safe. Every person who refuses to get vaccinated is another petrie dish for a Covid variant to potentially develop in. And as linked above there’s already a new variant that looks to be vaccine resistant. So congratulations, you’ve just made things worse for everyone else, again. The lockdowns mightn’t have been as bad if these assholes had just obeyed the rules too.
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But I admit that’s not going to happen, admittedly a more likely scenario is just forcefully vaccinating everyone. Which throws away the idea of medical consent, but in some ways that is already true for some conditions, some mental ilnesses can be treated without consent. In France and some other countries this is already the case, without vax you’re a 2nd rate citizen who can’t go anywhere.
Maybe in Europe that could be feasible. There is more developed infrastructure to reach everyone, but still seems very difficult. In the US there is just not enough support for a forced mandate and all sorts of court challenges would make it impractical and ineffective if anyone tried.
I wouldn’t personally even support it, BUT… I certainly support publicly identifying, socially quarantining and restricting participation of anyone that chooses not to get vaccinated. They can choose not to get it, but we can also choose not to accept the risk that puts on everyone else.
However, even that is an unrealistic expectation. There is no real will for governments almost anywhere to take drastic actions like these even though they are necessary. Ironically, during the “Greatest Generation” that a lot of the unvaccinated for political reasons look back on is actually a time when forced vaccinations would not only be imposed but welcomed and even demanded by those “freedom loving individualists” of the 40’s and 50’s.
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I’m vaccinated so don’t blame me. I just want unvaccinated people to have the same rights as I do.
Rights come with responsibilities.
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I don’t even see where rights come into it. Do I have the right to drive on any side of the road? Are seatbelt laws, driver’s licenses and car registration a violation of my rights? There are safety restrictions that we comply with every day and don’t think twice about.
Personally, I’m more incensed about having to still go through x-ray machines and take off my damn shoes at airports than anything to do with vaccines. People rail against the vaccine, but the same people support the expansion of the Patriot Act and invasive drug enforcement and brutal immigration laws.
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Oh yeah, airport security pisses me off way more than the idea of having to take a vaccine to protect my health. I’ve been getting vaccines since before I can remember. Thanks to them I’ve never had the mumps, the measles, polio, etc. But I get super annoyed at having to take my shoes off to go through airport security all because one dude 20 years ago tried to set his shoes on fire on a plane. The hypocrisy of the willingness to conform to “fight terrorists” when these are largely the same people who don’t want to wear masks or get a vaccine to save thousands, if not millions of lives is just laughable at this point. Especially since these are also the same people who won’t even let us talk about gun control when kids are killed in schools not infrequently. But one time someone tried setting their damn shoes on fire and now we all just accept that we have to remove our shoes along with all the other safety measures that came out of 9/11. It’s all nonsense.
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And as linked above there’s already a new variant that looks to be vaccine resistant. So congratulations, you’ve just made things worse for everyone else, again.
I’m vaccinated so don’t blame me. I just want unvaccinated people to have the same rights as I do.
And this “mu variant” was already around in January, when no one was vaccinated.
So you think you’re so safe behind that vaccine shield that it can’t possibly get through so why worry about unvaccinated spreaders?</p>
There are breakthrough cases of vaccinated people being hit with Covid. In most cases it doesn’t kill them, but it’s not a fun experience either.But the biggest reason for getting vaxed is it reduces the strain on the health system so it can start doing things other than Covid, so that doctors don’t find themselves having to triage to the degree of who does or doesn’t get treatment because there isn’t enough resources to treat everyone.
A small number of people, with certain conditions that involve immune-suppression, cannot be vaxed. Everyone else should be doing all they can so it doesn’t matter that some can’t get it.
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“Security Theater”
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But the biggest reason for getting vaxed is it reduces the strain on the health system so it can start doing things other than Covid, so that doctors don’t find themselves having to triage to the degree of who does or doesn’t get treatment because there isn’t enough resources to treat everyone. A small number of people, with certain conditions that involve immune-suppression, cannot be vaxed. Everyone else should be doing all they can so it doesn’t matter that some can’t get it.
Yes, exactly. And, again, kids too. We’re starting to see more kids hospitalized with the disease. My sister just had a baby a little over a month ago. If that little girl gets sick because some anti-vaxxer douche is too selfish to help both themselves and society, I’ll rage. There are so many vulnerable people in this world. If we have a safe and fairly invasive means to protect ourselves and them then we should 100% do it. Living in a society comes with certain responsibilities. Being an anti-vaxxer is just a bs excuse to use personal freedom to try to mask that you’re, in fact, selfish asshole. Which is ironic considering their stance on masks. It’s the epitome of first world entitlement and I’m not here for it. I was required to get all my damn vaccines to attend school as a kid and in college. So I think everyone else can suck it up and deal with getting a shot that will actually help everyone get back to normal.
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It used to be some vaccines had animal products used in them, now? They were changed to be vegan, so there is little reason not to get it.
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So how long are you staying in that rabbit hole and how deep are you going?
Go back a month or so and the thinking was the vaccines hit both the hit and the spread. Now the data we have suggests the contagion was less hit than was hoped. Add in how adept Covid is at hiding itself, that you can easily spread it without knowing you have it and this thing isn’t going away any time soon.
Instead, we get enough people vaxed to free up health system capacity, while other measures are used in combination to reduce the contagion.
If this sounds familar, it’s the adaptation and mitigation approach advocated for on climate change.
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Hail Satan!!!
Satanic Temple launches legal challenge to Texas abortion lawA Texas law that bans abortions after around six weeks into pregnancy is facing new legal action from Satanists.
The Massachusetts-based Satanic Temple has filed a letter with the Food and Drug Administration ostensibly in the name of religious freedom, arguing abortion is a faith-based right of its members.
The letter also addresses another Texas law awaiting Gov. Greg Abbott’s signature that will limit women’s access to abortion pills against FDA guidelines.
The Satanic Temple argues its members should have access to the pills under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the same law that allows Native Americans to access peyote for use in rituals. SB 8 “imposes an undue burden on the ability of TST members to undergo the Satanic Abortion Ritual” within the first 24 weeks of pregnancy, the group said.
“I am sure Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton – who famously spends a good deal of his time composing press releases about religious liberty issues in other states – will be proud to see that Texas’s robust religious liberty laws, which he so vociferously champions, will prevent future Abortion Rituals from being interrupted by superfluous government restrictions meant only to shame and harass those seeking an abortion,” Satanic Temple spokesperson Lucien Greaves said in a statement.
Greaves told Fortune his group holds bodily autonomy and science sacrosanct, with abortion an important part of the group’s beliefs.
“The battle for abortion rights is largely a battle of competing religious viewpoints, and our viewpoint that the nonviable fetus is part of the impregnated host is fortunately protected under Religious Liberty laws,” he said.
The new Texas law, one of 666 new laws that went into effect on Sept. 1, is the most restrictive in the country.
The only exception is for a woman having a medical emergency that threatens her life. Survivors of rape or incest don’t qualify.
Rather than creating a criminal penalty, the law is enforced through civil lawsuits. Anyone other than the person who impregnates a woman through rape or incest can sue the person or people who perform, attempts to perform or helps a woman get an abortion.
The Satanic Temple is a non-theistic religion, which means its members don’t believe in a devil or the supernatural, but instead use the image of Satan to symbolize resistance against tyranny.
Despite its name, it largely functions as an activist group fighting against religious-based policy in U.S. law.
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I thought it might go that way, at some point some people are going to put some other people in camps, but then I realized it wouldn’t fly in the US. Well in the democratic states, but in the red states this won’t happen. We’re seeing this type of apartheid happen in some countries in Europe though.
It is actually disgusting to compare this to apartheid. Get some fucking perspective.
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Camps? Who the hell would put unvaccinated people in camps? That would be stupid. It would just be asking to spread the disease. Who would even think that isolating people at risk together would be the natural next step?
Quarantine is an exceptionally simple process that we’ve been doing since the 19th century. It would be handled essentially through proof of vaccination. People would need proof of vaccination to return to work or to go to work. To enter public areas where crowding and infection is at risk — even then, masks and social distancing could accommodate unvaccinated people at grocery stores.
However, no unvaccinated people at theaters or malls or shopping centers or public gatherings is just common sense. If someone knew their kid had measles and brought them to another kid’s birthday party with all their schoolmates, would you say, “well that’s their choice.”
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Oh well, if someone made a joke on twitter, that changes everything.
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You find that quote now Arjan and think it a revelation after six years of Trump and Brexit? Where the hell you been?
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You find that quote now Arjan and think it a revelation after six years of Trump and Brexit? Where the hell you been?
The headache here is that you can have the same person claim that it is their individual right to choose whether or not to get a vaccination and also refuse to allow a woman to control her own body or a trans woman to go to a woman’s restroom. So, why is the former a god-given right, but the latter two are entirely not up to the individuals to decide? Especially since the supposed right to ignore vaccination or any safety precautions can get people sick or even dead.
Just look back at the AIDS crisis (where is that vaccine, by the way?*) and how quickly the conservative “Christian” community took the opportunity to “destroy in good conscience” the gay community it decimated.
*HIV Vaccine Fails, Prompting Calls for More PrEP (medscape.com)
Human Trials for HIV Vaccine Created With mRNA Technology to Begin (webmd.com)
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(where is that vaccine, by the way?)
Oddly, the research into mRNA vaccines for COVID has lead to leaps and bounds in developing one for AIDS. Prior to this it wasn’t considered sufficiently profitable to research on its own due to existing treatments that reduce the viral load in people who have it, or medications like PReP that prevent the transmission. But when related research is happening elsewhere it can be applied here.
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The doors that are being opened by the likes of mRNA and CRISPR are sounding pretty damn stunning.
The one thing people working on both never expected? Mass resistance to it. The way things are going we’ll acquire the ability to finally, really cure cancer and there’ll suddenly be a load of people deeming cancer something god-given that cannot be tampered with.
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The doors that are being opened by the likes of mRNA and CRISPR are sounding pretty damn stunning.
The one thing people working on both never expected? Mass resistance to it. The way things are going we’ll acquire the ability to finally, really cure cancer and there’ll suddenly be a load of people deeming cancer something god-given that cannot be tampered with.
The religious right banning stem cell research in the US was a good sign that they’d put ideology in front of medical care in a lot of cases.
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At this point I’m convinced the whole covid thing is just mass psychosis. In the Netherlands 150 (one hundred and fifty, on a population of 17 million) under the age of 50 have died from covid. And maybe one or two kids under the age of twenty. And yet we’re sacrificing their youth for it.
So you don’t care about people over 50?
Yeah I do care. I think I said before I do volunteer work with people in an old folks home. Most of them hate the restrictions and just want things to become normal again. During the first lockdown they weren’t allowed to see anyone and some of them became so depressed they stopped eating in order to try to end their lives. That set the tone for me.
If you care about people over 50, why do you exclude them from the death statistics to make your point?
And yeah, the lockdowns suck, but you know what would have made them suck less? If people stuck to them in the first place and slowed the spread of COVID in the first place, minimising the need for later, longer ones. The people to blame for the extended lockdowns are the same people you’re wringing your hands over all this time.
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I’ve heard this argument, but I think it’s bullshit.
Yeah, well it’s easier to dismiss inconvenient truths than accept them.
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I’ve heard this argument, but I think it’s bullshit. The people responsible for the lockdowns are the people implementing them, the government and the ruling class. Our compliance or non-compliance is not the cause for prolonged lockdowns, their will is. Once you give way to tyranny and expect to get your freedom back later, it’s more likely you’ll get more tyranny instead. But keep trusting your government.
Then you must believe the rising cases in the past few months are entirely made up. That there is no actual epidemic and ICU’s are not overfilled with unvaccinated COVID patients. That’s the justification for restrictions and vaccinations, so if those are not justified then those facts would have to be falsehoods.
That would mean that hospitals around the country – even in places where sentiment against lockdowns and restrictions, masks and vaccinations are shared by the governments – are intentionally keeping ICU beds empty to perpetuate a hoax promoting government lockdowns. The whole ivermectin stories in the news seem isolated and probably exaggerated, but the broader situation is that COVID is still stressing out our medical system and affecting people beyond just those getting sick from and dying from the virus.
Here, we don’t have a government really imposing any rational restrictions that would actually shorten the effects of the pandemic. In fact, as soon as vaccinations started, our government practically lifted all restrictions and immediately we were in another surge almost as bad as the last one because people stopped getting vaccination when they thought the whole thing was over.
If anything, we have a government that is not using the power it has to actually achieve anything much less one approaching tyranny.
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Or, more likely, the people who do not adhere to the lockdowns, mask requirement and vaccinations then completely destroy any progress for the society on the whole.
This is the central point. It is not tyrannical government action imposing these restrictions on the people. It’s not like thousands of people are being thrown in jail over the violations. Instead, everyone is relying on each other to behave responsibly.
This is exactly the situation libertarians and conservatives claim reliance on individual liberty should solve. That people should be allowed to decide the best course of action individually and government should stand back.
Well, government is standing back. The demands are coming from individuals behaving responsibly to other individuals that are not, and it seems that people don’t really believe they have liberty unless they are free to act against their own interests — and as a result all of our interests.
Well, if an autocratic or authoritarian government is a risk – and it certainly is in our military policy, freedom of the press and speech and rights to privacy, voting and the rights of women – I can’t believe that the people defying common sense to assert their liberty will be any safeguard against real tyranny.
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I’ve heard this argument, but I think it’s bullshit.
Yeah, well it’s easier to dismiss inconvenient truths than accept them.
You seem to assume lockdowns were a good idea to begin with, and lack of success of the lockdown means someone must have disobeyed them. Probably those awful people who vote differently than we do! And I wonder who gave us the idea for lockdowns in the first place?
Lockdowns are a pretty dumb thing. You can get the numbers down, but then when you stop the lockdown and numbers start rising again everybody shits their pants and you have to lockdown again. Basically you commit yourself to a neverending series of lockdowns. Unless a vaccine will work on a rapidly mutating virus.
This is utterly incorrect and flies in the face of actual evidence. At this point I’m actually questioning if you actually got vaccinated because almost everything else you’ve said about CPVID and medical precautions is antivaxxer quackshittery.
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This is going to sound cold and cruel and vicious but if you won’t get vaccinated (I do understand that there is a small minority who can’t for medical reasons or they are children who are not yet eligible) and get COVID-19, you should be considered a much lower priority than all other life-threatening emergencies. If that me
So you have to apply the same rules to the person who chooses to go rock climbing and suffers a life-threatening fall. Your choice so you’re at the bottom of the treatment priority pile.
You chose to smoke and now you’ve got lung cancer? Sorry, bottom of the pile.
You chose to drive and you’ve just crashed? Sorry…
That comparison is bullshit and doesn’t work at all.
Those in your comparison are not overtaxing medical resources beyond capacities. There isn’t a plague of rock climbing or car accidents overwhelming hospitals around the world.
If the people flooding ERs and hospitals had gotten vaccinated and followed safety advice, we wouldn’t be in this state. This was a preventable situation. Hospitals already have a prioritization system for admissions. The problem is COVID-19 people are are just so many that other sick and injured people may not get the immediate care they need. As it is, non-coronavirus infected people are at serious risk of dying because selfish jerks couldn’t be bothered to get a vaccine.
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Still, there is a place for compassion. In the end anger and hatred will do more self-harm even when it seems justified. Naturally, it is equally dangerous to not treat Covid patients – even those unvaccinated – as an equal priority as that is also part of the necessity for dealing with the epidemic. Doctors will learn something from every case and the data will be important in tracking the progression and mutation of the disease.
However, I have to agree that even though there are some similarities toward risky behavior — and I think in terms of insurance there are reasons for denying coverage to people who engage in risky behavior — the simplicity and ready availability of the vaccine, the clear evidence of social distancing and masks effectiveness, and the obvious disaster its inflicted on the world, it is a bit different than any other risky behavior I can think of — other than the kind in other diseases like HIV transmission and other anti-vaccination activities.
But it is a good point that we do encourage risk and generally unhealthy behavior in our society in general and maybe that should be reconsidered when there is such a flimsy safety net in regards to our health care system.
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I do want to thank everyone for their patience with me and allowing me to vent. I am not just angry and frustrated with the fear and ignorance surrounding COVID-19, but of the regressive and oppressive legislation (abortion restrictions, voter suppression, prevention of teaching critical race theory, anti-mask laws, and irresponsible gun laws to name a few) that has gone into effect in Texas. The level of bigotry and fascism is depressing and infuriating.
I want a better world and a better future.
It’s an interesting subject in a wider aspect though. Basically health care is always rationed even if people love to suggest it isn’t.
The claims of ‘death panels’ by Republicans a few years conveniently ignored the fact that insurance companies have taken that role for decades (see the opening section in the Michael Moore movie where a young lady is denied cancer treatment because she was too young to get cancer – nobody told the cancer).
In universal healthcare systems like the NHS they don’t approve all drugs for use. Some treatments, especially that extend life rather than cure ailments, are massively expensive and they make decisions not to buy them even though they work, they cost tens of millions sometimes for a limited return when you do a cost/benefit check. It could be if you were wealthy or on a good insurance plan in the US you could get an extra year of life with the same condition as it would be paid for.
In a health crisis like this doctors have been running triage very often. Basically deciding who to treat first with limited resources, knowing that some delayed will inevitably die. It’s not necessarily about anger at the choices of anti-vaxxers but a practical decision of priorities.
Ideally we always have sufficient practitioners, equipment and drugs to treat everyone equally, in reality that has never been achieved in any medical system.
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My problem with the government control lockdown stuff is really the way the governments I’m familiar with have approached them. For a combination of ideological and economic reasons the UK and Malaysia have been very keen to loosen them when the science doesn’t really suggest they should.
I genuinely don’t think they do want them and would scrap them all tomorrow if they could.
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I still think locking the unvaccinated out fo everyday life or employment is wrong
There’s an easy solution to that, but they choose not to take it.
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For a combination of ideological and economic reasons the UK and Malaysia have been very keen to loosen them when the science doesn’t really suggest they should.
Ireland too. We relaxed our first lockdown a few weeks too early and never recovered.
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There are some aspects to not being vaccinated that loom larger in the US. Like the fear it’ll cost, as just visiting the doc can set you back $20. For those on low incomes that initial cost can deter, as can fear of follow-up costs.
But in these cases the solution is better comms, and infrastructure to support and enable free access to it.
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There are some aspects to not being vaccinated that loom larger in the US. Like the fear it’ll cost, as just visiting the doc can set you back $20. For those on low incomes that initial cost can deter, as can fear of follow-up costs.
But in these cases the solution is better comms, and infrastructure to support and enable free access to it.
At least in the US, there is no charge for the vaccine. You can go to grocery stores and drug stores and get them there. Some local governments are even offering CASH incentives to get vaccinated.
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Yeah I’ll probably differ from Ben on this one.
We have mixed public/private system here but the fact that the vaccine is free for everyone whoever they are is very widely known. I don’t live in the US but have seen the stories of incentives being offered so if I have it’s hard to imagine many Americans genuinely believe it will cost them.
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I am very much going by second hand info, thousands of miles away. So yeah, it could be off.
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Some local governments are even offering CASH incentives to get vaccinated
I’d have done it for the free burger some areas were offering, let alone cash.
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I got nothing, not even a biscuit.
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I got nothing, not even a biscuit.
Same here.
At my wife’s job, her company gave their employees $200 with proof of full vaccination.
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I got nothing, not even a biscuit.
I got a badge
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We have mixed public/private system here but the fact that the vaccine is free for everyone whoever they are is very widely known. I don’t live in the US but have seen the stories of incentives being offered so if I have it’s hard to imagine many Americans genuinely believe it will cost them.
Yes, unfortunately, it is a big problem for a lot of companies and people. There is a belief that there will be a cost or fee of some sort even when there is a lot of information that there isn’t. Or that you have to have health insurance to get the shot. Or they check your citizenship and immigrant status, or collect a lot of information on you and on and on.
And then there is the fear among working people who can’t afford medical care or are underinsured and already burdened with debts that if there are side effects to the vaccine, it will leave them out of work and out of money they need to pay the rent or eat and maybe with a medical bill they cannot pay. No matter how rare side effects are, they still worry about it even though they are at more risk of the same catastrophe if they catch Covid while unvaccinated.
“I don’t want to get sick from the shot.”
“That’s understandable except… you do realize that you are actually more likely to get sick by not getting the shot. And spreading the sickness to the people closest to you, right?”
Surprisingly, that is not convincing for a lot of working people in America for some reason. Serious cognitive dissonance in play over here.
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garjones wrote:
I got nothing, not even a biscuit.
I got a badge
I got the comfort of knowing that I now was at least somewhat protected from the coronavirus. That, and a sore shoulder.
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England vaccine passport plans ditched, Sajid Javid says – BBC News
Huh, good. Some rare common sense.
You already need to show proof of vaccination to travel to the UK for many illnesses unless you come from a country that vaccinated their population as a matter of course and has a treaty to confirm this.
This is the exact opposite of common sense.
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There probably is a way to practically make covid passports work, but not from Johnson’s government, whose version was going to be a mess.
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There probably is a way to practically make covid passports work, but not from Johnson’s government, whose version was going to be a mess.
don’t worry, I’m sure it’ll be a similar tech-based solution like the one they proposed for the Irish border.
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What tech based solution? Oh wait, I see.
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Speaking of vaccine passports, I went to a beer festival yesterday and in came this dude with a sign about preserving medical freedom and saying no to vaccine passports. He legit stood in the middle of the festival area just holding that sign. Most people gave him a wide berth because I think we all understood that it was unlikely the guy was vaccinated. But what really got to me about it was this was an outdoor event that didn’t require anyone to show proof of vaccination to enter. What it did require, however, was we all show our ids to prove we’re old enough to drink. We’re all out here showing an ID that has our full name, address, DOB and information on if we’re organ donors or not just to try out some beer, but somehow a vaccine passport is a step too far?
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Speaking of vaccine passports, I went to a beer festival yesterday and in came this dude with a sign about preserving medical freedom and saying no to vaccine passports. He legit stood in the middle of the festival area just holding that sign. Most people gave him a wide berth because I think we all understood that it was unlikely the guy was vaccinated. But what really got to me about it was this was an outdoor event that didn’t require anyone to show proof of vaccination to enter. What it did require, however, was we all show our ids to prove we’re old enough to drink. We’re all out here showing an ID that has our full name, address, DOB and information on if we’re organ donors or not just to try out some beer, but somehow a vaccine passport is a step too far?
That sort of motivation is strange to me. I just can’t think that would be attractive way to spend time.
I do think it needs to be separate from any sort of national ID policy, but each country can decide that on its own. Here in the US, there is the “Real ID” act that I, and a lot of progressives, find objectionable and tied in with opposition to Federal surveillance and monitoring laws that need to be fought and overturned as well. Here in the US, I would suspect proponents of a national surveillance system to try to use Covid to push its implementation rather than any real desire to help in the pandemic.
I’m not that concerned about a prevalence of fake vaccine proofs affecting the system because the people against the vaccine are pretty open about it — as noted in your experience at the event above. Proof of vaccination should be good enough without any special changes to present ID requirements.
There’s a Lot That Can Go Wrong With ‘Vaccine Passports’ (aclu.org)
We were heartened to see that the Biden administration appears to be aware of many of these concerns: White House coronavirus coordinator Jeff Zients declared earlier this month that “any solutions in this area should be simple, free, open source, accessible to people both digitally and on paper, and designed from the start to protect people’s privacy.” The administration has also repeatedly stated that vaccines must be accessible to people regardless of immigration status, and therefore any unintended deterrence must also be considered. Such statements show a thoughtful awareness of the landscape here.
We don’t oppose in principle the idea of a requiring proof of vaccination in certain contexts. But given the enormous difficulty of creating a digital passport system, and the compromises and failures that are likely to happen along the way, we are wary about the side effects and long-term consequences it could have. We will be closely watching developments in this area.
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What tech based solution? Oh wait, I see.
It’s easier to lose a couple billion of taxpayers’ money that way.
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You mean £37bn, yeah?
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I saw this on Instagram:
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I saw this on Instagram:
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Larry Elder, Gavin Newsom gear up for California recall battle
Elder refused to answer whether he’ll accept the recall election results. He probably won’t if he loses.
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If the recall fails then let Elder cry about it all he wants. I know Trump is already trying to show seeds of fraud again, but it doesn’t really matter. The GOP victim complex doesn’t play as well in California. They can whine about things being stolen all they want, but it won’t help Republicans win statewide in CA because they don’t have the power there to change the rules like they do in FL, TX, GA, etc. It’s just more preaching to their cultish choir.
Also, if Newsome does manage a double digit victory (still a possibility, but apparently recall and special election polls haven’t been super reliable), it gets that much harder to claim shenanigans. Just makes those kinds of claims look more like the bs they are. But hey, Elder can refuse to accept the loss and run again next year and find out what it feels like to lose twice if he really wants.
Still, hopefully the worst CA has to deal with in more crying from Elder and his ilk. Much preferred to him actually winning.
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Remember when Dubya was considered the worst POTUS?
From over here it looks like he still was.
Seriously, I know Trump wasn’t great when you were living under him, but to the rest of the world he was fairly benign, compared with how much Bush screwed us all up.
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Seriously, I know Trump wasn’t great when you were living under him, but to the rest of the world he was fairly benign, compared with how much Bush screwed us all up.
Still, there are a lot of activities that Trump did internationally that will play out a decade or so especially in regard to immigration and global warming approaches.
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California governor recall hopeful Larry Elder is a soldier for white supremacy
I would say that Larry Elder must be stopped, but in the wake of Trump we will see an increasingly insane group of people moving from right-wing media into politics. Only they can satisfy the right’s growing appetite for more outrage, more crazy, more detached from reality pronouncements, and, of course, more hatred toward Black and brown people. Larry Elder is just one of a trend. I can’t wait to see what else the Republicans drudge up from the bottom of their swamp.
The idea of Elder being just the beginning is frightening.
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So California rejected Larry Elder. Weird that a large, racially diverse state doesn’t want to be led by a guy who thinks George Zimmerman is a hero, Stephen Miller should be president, slaveowners deserved reparations, COVID should proliferate and the minimum wage should be $0. pic.twitter.com/xeMFduNAtq
— Joy-Ann (Pro-Democracy) Reid 😷 (@JoyAnnReid) September 15, 2021
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The recall failed. Newsom is still Governor of California.
Elder crying “Election fraud!” in 5…4…3…2…
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Thankfully, Elder basically conceded last night. Of course he’s also hinting at at 2022 run. Which won’t help the GOP gain any ground in CA. I think the recall spoke pretty loudly on what CA voters think about Larry Elder and candidates like him. But the GOP seems pretty content to double down on losers, so have at it I guess.
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Meanwhile, Johnson’s latest reshuffle is demonstrating his view of loyalty is strictly one way.
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Thankfully, Elder basically conceded last night. Of course he’s also hinting at at 2022 run. Which won’t help the GOP gain any ground in CA.
Exactly. I certainly hope he runs. He’s such a perfect bad guy candidate you half suspect he’s secretly working for the DNC.
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Liz Truss becoming Foreign Secretary speaks volumes about the state of the UK. A politician with the intellectual capacity of a damp rag is now our main point of contact with foreign governments.
I mean, who the hell looks at what happened in Afghanistan last month and thinks “if only Liz Truss had been around!”
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Interesting…
What was so pivotal about the California situation?
Please read this:
Consider this: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) is 88 years old. If she dies in office or resigns her seat, the governor appoints her successor. If that governor is a Republican, then the balance of power in the U.S. Senate would flip away from the slim 50-50 Democratic majority that comes with Vice President Kamala Harris making the tie-breaking vote.
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I watched a documentary on homelessness in the Netherlands yesterday, and there is some success with building very basic housing, called “living containers”, on the edge of some smaller cities where “chronically homeless” people, often people with drugs and alcohol problems, can live. It seemed OK, basic but not bad, the people living there seemed happy with the situation and the people living in the vicinity to these “camps”, mostly didn’t have any problems with it.
Homelessness is rising here, but most of it isn’t the typical homeless person you see on the street, but people who go from one temporary situation to the other, without a stable living situation. Maybe sleeping in a tent for some days, then living with some friends, maybe live on a cheap camping site for some days, etc.
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Liz Truss becoming Foreign Secretary speaks volumes about the state of the UK. A politician with the intellectual capacity of a damp rag is now our main point of contact with foreign governments.
I mean, who the hell looks at what happened in Afghanistan last month and thinks “if only Liz Truss had been around!”
I do get the impression at the moment (i.e. for the last few years) that most of the people in senior positions are intellectually inadequate. I have to assume it’s a deliberate policy, presumably to make sure none of your lieutenants are smart enough to challenge you. Otherwise, why wouldn’t you want the best?
In previous years, even when I’ve disagreed with the policies I could usually at least respect the knowledge and intelligence of the people making them. Now I don’t feel that at all.
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I do get the impression at the moment (i.e. for the last few years) that most of the people in senior positions are intellectually inadequate. I have to assume it’s a deliberate policy, presumably to make sure none of your lieutenants are smart enough to challenge you. Otherwise, why wouldn’t you want the best?
Yes, people talk in this context about leaders cutting down the “tall poppies”.
But if the current government’s Tall Poppies are the likes of Gavin Williamson, Dominic Raab and Priti Patel then things are even worse than I thought.
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In previous years, even when I’ve disagreed with the policies I could usually at least respect the knowledge and intelligence of the people making them. Now I don’t feel that at all.
That sums up my feelings during the Trump years over here, when his choices for Secretaries of Education, Energy, and the Interior each had private agendas that were the polar opposite of what was best for the country and its citizens.
Uncle Joe may do things I don’t agree with, but at least I feel like he has surrounded himself with people who have the right experience for the right job and will probably recommend the right decisions.
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I watch what our British posters are going through and through following Tom Taylor on Twitter I see what is happening in Australia and it looks familiar.
Uncle Joe may do things I don’t agree with, but at least I feel like he has surrounded himself with people who have the right experience for the right job and will probably recommend the right decisions.
I hope that somehow some way those two countries will follow suit. The US dug a very deep hole during Trump so we may not be able to get out in one trip and hopefully we will be able to complete the process before we have to deal with another attack from him or some one like him.
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Larry Elder
That Twitter posting about his beliefs/campaign may be unbelievable/shocking to the rational, but it really shouldn’t be. It was posted here before about the belief system of some who deny actual history events, deny science, now deny covid, deny vaccines, challenging doctors over it and challenge climatologists over climate change etc. It was said that the education system failed them (or vice versa) but all that is really testimony that there are “pockets” in society of blatant ignorance.
I won’t rehash the previously posted long laundry list of this and that but there were live interviews at Trump MAGA rallies and some said things like slavery was bad but it was a means to an end, blacks are still better off regardless because they live in America instead of the third World Africa, some blacks liked slavery plantation as it gave them some belongingness, job security, some wanted to stay with their master.
Unbelievable right? Bovine excrement right?
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The Jan 6 Capitol situation, some were “appalled”, “disgusted” at what happened. The videos of the Confederate flag inside, the Trump flag hoisted, Proud Boys and Oath Keepers carrying on and scaling the wall, breaking in, sitting in Pelosi’s desk, smearing shit on the walls… “That is not really America” some said. It was as if they were seeing it for the first time. Black and other marginalized groups always knew they always existed, it was really no surprise to them, but no one paid any attention to their truama or experiences. Oh there are terms like “redneck”, “white trash”, but apparently no one noticed that there were so many, except for Trump. I mean, I have seen questionable conduct by black and brown people in public and they get branded as “ghetto”,
“animals”, “backwards”, and now there are more online video clips of the conduct of “Karens” “Male Karens” and more white people making a scene in stores, restaurants, and airlines.Now that insurrection is being spun differently as patriots wanting to take back their rightful country etc. by GOP politicians like Cruz and others, Fox News, that other right wing news network NewsMax, etc. 75M voted Red last election… Is it only NOW that some realize something is wrong? Makes me wonder…
————Regarding Trump
He hated all the overwhelmingly peaceful BLM protests and when it was in DC, he spoke about a 10 year prison sentence for anyone who damages or vandalizes a federal building.
Sounds reasonable to apply that to the Jan. 6th insurrectionists, eh? It is his words after all.
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Mike Pence Could Become Donald Trump’s Nemesis in 2024
I can’t decide if that’s good or bad.
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Mike Pence Could Become Donald Trump’s Nemesis in 2024
I can’t decide if that’s good or bad.
Well, he is fully aware that he was hung out to dry on Jan 6th…
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Best part of the VP debate was when Pence was trying to bully Kamala and she paused while replying and told him “I’m speaking”
That spoke volumes to all the women watching (black and brown as well) who have had men talk over them in a formal setting while making a point.3 users thanked author for this post.
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He hated all the overwhelmingly peaceful BLM protests
Only 25 people died…
Sure but that’s 25 people who died across more than 7000 protests across the country over that summer. The study conducted on them found that in nearly all of the protests no serious harm to people or property took place. And in most cases where there was violence it was often started by police or counterprotesters. So yes, those protests as a whole were overwhelming peaceful.
A summary can be found here if anyone hasn’t already read it: http://www.radcliffe.harvard.edu/news-and-ideas/black-lives-matter-protesters-were-overwhelmingly-peaceful-our-research-finds
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*sigh*
US Capitol braced for rally supporting January 6 rioters
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Apparently Evergrande, a Chinese real estate giant, has defaulted. This could be a big deal.
It’s been coming for a while I think. About 6 years ago I watched a documentary on infrastructure spending in China and it’s surprisingly less centralised or federal than you think. When they went down to the regional level many provinces had incredible debt it looked pretty unlikely they could ever support. That’s where stuff like the ‘ghost cities’ came from where you’d have 300 high rise condos with nobody living in any of them.
They weren’t able to prove it in the show as documents were pretty closed off to foreign reporters but mass building of stuff nobody really needs is usually a very direct sign of corruption, politician creates project, gets millions in kickbacks when ensuring the contract goes to a developer. They did though predict some areas of economic collapse coming inevitably down the line.
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Overturning Roe v Wade will promote abstinence, says architect of Texas abortion ban
I’m not in favor of abortion, either, but it’s damned galling that they put all the onus on women. If you’re gonna tell women to keep their legs closed, tell men to keep it in their pants. It takes two, to coin a cliche.
Also, banning abortion won’t stop people from having sex any more than Prohibition stopped people from drinking.
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