The Picard Thread (with SPOILERS)

Topic

The show starts this week, on CBS All Access in the US, and Amazon in most of the rest of the world.

No sign of the Children of Mars short that serves as a prologue showing up outside the US yet.

Replies

The awareness of there being a race of Bayformers keen to get into the universe and wreck organic life must surely be a bit of a bummer. And now they know that the signal was activated and where it came from. And that it was abruptly turned off, presumably because of organics from their perspective, furthering their negative opinion of organics. Hopefully they have more in mind for this. Seems like a big concept to drop.

And what happened to the Romulan dude?

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lorcan_nagle

Narek is totally going to be back next year.

And I wouldn’t be surprised if what happened to Control is linked to the extragalactic synths (and maybe even V’Ger?).  I kinda like the idea of an enemy that’s out there and just randomly winds up intruding into the Alpha/Beta Quadrant’s politics by inadvertently being contacted by native elements

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Hank Cannon

Ok so, the morning after.

I think the show is badly written. I know everyone is experienced and well regarded but I thought the whole season in general, and this episode in particular, was an example of writers forcing things to happen, when they really made no sense for the characters or the events around them.

I agree with Lorcan about the Cube, but it’s just one example amongst many.

And I’m gonna stop. I honestly can’t see the point of cataloguing the problems, because it’s all part of the same problem; the people making it cut corners because they want to and no-one in the office says, “Hang on a minute, would they really do that?”

I hope Discovery is great when it comes back.

A Picard/Discovery crossover would seem to be inevitable at some point.

[njerry]

See below; reverse double post

• This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by njerry.

Todd wrote:

I’m perpendicular-Lorcan.

You mean
L
o
r
c
a
n
?

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Bruce, Todd, lorcan_nagle

Anyone wondering what they did with Picard’s real body and brain?

Picard v2.0 is an entirely new creation, with a copy of his memories and personality in it. Did Picard v1.0 get a burial, cremation or memorial of some sort?

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lorcan_nagle

SteveUK wrote:

Anyone wondering what they did with Picard’s real body and brain?

Picard v2.0 is an entirely new creation, with a copy of his memories and personality in it. Did Picard v1.0 get a burial, cremation or memorial of some sort?

Torpedo him on the Genesis Planet?

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SteveUK, lorcan_nagle

It’s in his Starfleet archive beside the model of the Stargazer and the Captain Picard day banner.

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SteveUK, Todd

He’s had himself stuffed and mounted on the wall.

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SteveUK, Todd

Did anyone else see the ad for Discovery s3 right before this episode. I wouldn’t call it a promo because it was a song image but it had a very strong Andromeda vibe to it.

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lorcan_nagle

I just got a quick sting shot of Burnham holding a tattered Federation flag aloft.  But from the promo mateial we’ve seen there’s definitely a vibe of the crew becoming part of a movement to restore a fractured Federation looks to be the plot.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

I just got a quick sting shot of Burnham holding a tattered Federation flag aloft.  But from the promo mateial we’ve seen there’s definitely a vibe of the crew becoming part of a movement to restore a fractured Federation looks to be the plot.

So it’s Andromeda 2.0?

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SteveUK

Todd wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

I just got a quick sting shot of Burnham holding a tattered Federation flag aloft.  But from the promo mateial we’ve seen there’s definitely a vibe of the crew becoming part of a movement to restore a fractured Federation looks to be the plot.

So it’s Andromeda 2.0?

Well, Andromeda wasn’t the first story to do that, but more or less.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Todd wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

I just got a quick sting shot of Burnham holding a tattered Federation flag aloft.  But from the promo mateial we’ve seen there’s definitely a vibe of the crew becoming part of a movement to restore a fractured Federation looks to be the plot.

So it’s Andromeda 2.0?

Well, Andromeda wasn’t the first story to do that, but more or less.

I still remember when Warren Ellis would drop by MW back in the day. He did so after one particularly horrendous late series episode of Andromeda and was saying that may have mentally broke him.

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lorcan_nagle

I mean Andromeda did start out as a pitch for a new Star Trek series that Berman turned down.

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lorcan_nagle, Todd

Thankfully, I don’t think I ever saw a full episode of it.

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Todd

[rory]

The first two seasons were decent if clearly low budget syndicated sci-fi. Nothing spectacular but entertaining enough. Once Wolff was forced out and Sorbo started exerting more and more control it went epically off the rails.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by rory.

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Todd

It was okay… I don’t get why they went through all the trouble with Picard’s help though, plus it was telegraphed a mile away…

Still, I was hoping they’d go for what would’ve been the most awesome outcome, which would’ve been to bring him back, but, wait for it… in James McAvoy’s body… xD

Now THAT would’ve been great =P

Anyways, as for the series, much like the Mandalorian, this actually felt more like a stretched out movie (in terms of the actual plot), but at least it didn’t feel as empty and bland as the Madalorian. It was okay, nothing more. I guess it’s a nice goodbye to those characters for the fans.

Couple of things that didn’t sit well with me…

1) Picard’s new robot body. If I’m going to get downloaded into a robot body, I’m going to want a young body that doesn’t age. And this is also another case of “Why doen’t Reed Richards…” where, now that this technology is available, it should become commonplace. Picard just dropped game-changing technology into the Star Trek canon, yet I suspect it won’t come up again.

2) They let Commodore Oh go without any ado whatsoever. She’s a spy who infiltrated Starfleet and is responsible for countless deaths on both Mars and Romulus, but she gets to skate away, no harm no foul.

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Rocket

Well captain what’shisface called her a traitor to the federation, so it’s implied she WILL have to deal with some fallout… in any case, we don’t really need to see that.

The robot body thing was stupid, for sure, but there was only one, that human Data dude was gonna use for himself, so it’s possible it’s not a “readily available” thing, but rather a project both him and the other dude were working on forever. That said, yeah the tech exists now, so it could be potentially used, but probably won’t.

Also, isn’t Picard time-frame the farthest in the canon? I mean, without considering any time travel stories, that is… Because Discovery is set waaay before Picard, but I don’t know if there was another series post TNG/Picard…

The ban on synthetics is lifted overnight, research begins again, within a generation everyone begins uploading their minds to new bodies as they reach the end of their natural lives and pretty soon there are trillions of potentially immortal cyborg-synthetics across the galaxy.

Basically, it becomes Altered Carbon.

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Todd

Except that this is Star Trek, and they never explore the long-term implications of anything they do with their technology.

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Christian, Todd

I thought this was a poor ending. Obviously they wanted their big Picard/Data scene, and that’s fine (other than Data now looking like something out of a horror movie for some reason – the eyes!) but then everything else seemed to be resolved with a handwave.

The entire plot gets sorted out with a quick Skype chat and the big nasty threat goes away somehow, the ban on synths is suddenly lifted with no explanation because there are only minutes left in the episode, and Picard is now in a robot-Picard body that everyone just shrugs off as though nothing has really changed. Oh, and Riker is suddenly captaining a spaceship again.

Nothing really feels like it mattered for this whole season. As Homer Simpson would say, it’s just a bunch of stuff that happened.

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Christian

So far as the Simpsons go, Picard’s robot body is on par with Armin Tamzarian so far as needless complications are concerned.

Oh will likely be dealt with and I get that Riker didn’t want everything descending into a massive battle right then. What didn’t make sense was Oh hesitating so much rather than immediately having all her ships blow the crap out of the one settlement on the planet. This moment is the culmination of her entire belief system, she wouldn’t not have one of her 218 ships start taking action to realise it.

Hell, she even cared enough to come up with at least five planet sterilising procedures!

saga wrote:

So far as the Simpsons go, Picard’s robot body is on par with Armin Tamzarian so far as needless complications are concerned.

Unless they lean into it in a big way next season.

Basically, I want to see the Picard version of this.

 

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Todd

I guess the real test will be if Picard’s dog still recognises him or not.

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Todd

Perfect lead-in for the inevitable Star Trek/Terminator crossover comic from IDW

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Dave

Wait is there gonna be a next season????

Ugh please no, this was nice but leave Patrick Stewart alone…

Oh, I’ve heard that this is apparently a 3-season arc.

saga wrote:

Hell, she even cared enough to come up with at least five planet sterilising procedures!

That actually got a laugh when we were watching it. No idea if that was the intention or not.

Ben wrote:

Oh, I’ve heard that this is apparently a 3-season arc.

It’s been renewed for one, and various people involved have said they’d like to run for three series, no word on if they have an arc for those three years or not though.

I would hope next season is a fresh story direction with the now-established crew, rather than a continuation of this plot. I’m not sure there’s further to go with it.

If nothing else, Michael Chabon has had to step down as showrunner, as he’s writing a TV adaptation of Kavalier and Klay

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Dave

I still hope against hope that the show can move away from the streaming standard of telling one story across an entire season with next to no room for anything else. A few one off adventures with the crew would be entirely welcome.

One thing that should be followed up on is the murder of Maddox. She was about to turn herself in at one point.

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Dave

saga wrote:

And what happened to the Romulan dude?

It was really strange that he didn’t get a scene in the end to say what he’s doing. What, you couldn’t spare 15 seconds to show what happened to the main antagonist of the series?

Just weird.

Other than that, yeah, what Dave and Steve said. After last week, there was no way this episode could save the series; it wrapped up the way we knew it would, and pretty painlessly, so that was that.

SteveUK wrote:

I hope Discovery is great when it comes back.

Now that would be a first.

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Todd

Technically, Narek didn’t do anything to merit being arrested did he? He didn’t kill that synthetic, the evil Soji did and it was her idea. He just turned up on the planet and helped Picard’s crew stop the destruction of the universe. The cad.

saga wrote:

Technically, Narek didn’t do anything to merit being arrested did he?

Didn’t he try to kill Soji a few episodes ago?

Well, that’s just Romulan foreplay.

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Todd

I suppose that Narek would be guilty of espionage and conspiracy against the Federation, but I don’t recall that he was ever actually in Federation territory, just aboard the Artifact (which was Romulan) and the Synth World (don’t remember what it’s called). I’m not sure if anyone would have any authority to arrest him unless he acted within Federation territory, or at least entered it.

Riker probably could have taken Commodore Oh into custody if he had the opportunity to do so.

 

Who knows what the laws are in a situation like that?

I don’t object to Narek slipping away, he’s an intelligence officer with years of experience. Leaving it out of the episode is a bit crap though.

Being charitable I assume that this, and a lot of other connective tissue, was trimmed out to get the duration of the episode down.

Because otherwise, they’d have had to have been so incompetent they didn’t write those bits at all, and that’s just crazy talk!

SteveUK wrote:

Being charitable I assume that this, and a lot of other connective tissue, was trimmed out to get the duration of the episode down. Because otherwise, they’d have had to have been so incompetent they didn’t write those bits at all, and that’s just crazy talk!

Yeah, those were my thoughts exactly. And then I thought, well, but the episode wasn’t exactly trimmed down… they could easily have found those 20 seconds to let us see Narek slip away.

So, maybe option 2 after all?

lorcan_nagle wrote:

If nothing else, Michael Chabon has had to step down as showrunner, as he’s writing a TV adaptation of Kavalier and Klay

Quick follow-up, I meant to post this the other day. Chabon’s replacement was showrunner on 12 Monkeys. Which I haven’t watched yet but I hear was good?  Chabon’s still writing two episodes of Picard series 2 as well.  And has promised that Raffi and Seven’s relationship will be explored.

[Christian]

Sounds like a good reason to finally check out 12 Monkeys.

 

I wish Michelle Hurd didn’t get on my nerves so much. It’s one of those cases where the character is fine on paper, but I just don’t like what the actor is doing.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Christian.

Hopefully everyone who wanted to watch the finale has done so. I can’t do spoilers so hopefully i will be vague enough not to ruin anything.

I liked the return of Riker.
I spotted the resolution of Picard’s fate very early
Picard-Data conversation was emotionally beautiful(Stewart said the last scene took several takes because he kept getting emotional and forgetting his lines)
Ready room interview with Isa Briones( excited playing twins, disappointed twins didn’t meet, loved played Sutra and finally getting to play off herself)
End scene with full crew on bridge of El Sirena
Enjoyed all the Holos and their different personalities.

Main con: having the majority of Cris and Agnes’ relationship on cutting room floor.

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Vikram, lorcan_nagle

Enjoyed all the Holos and their different personalities.

Those accents were a hate crime.

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Bruce, Dave, lorcan_nagle

Uncle Retrospective wrote:

Enjoyed all the Holos and their different personalities.

Those accents were a hate crime.

Pretty standard for Trek, to be fair.

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Uncle Retrospective, Bruce, Dave

I thought the bad accents were done on purpose. More of a parody than an attempt at authenticity. I have a fairly strong accent that gets made fun outside of Western New York and I laugh along with them.

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lorcan_nagle

So, thoughts…
The finale was a bit of a let-down, or worse. I don’t want to beat on it, but I’m left with thinking it could’ve and should’ve been so much better.
A Borg Cube is in play and trying to express my disappointment has me barely able to type.

It wasn’t horrible overall, but the more I analyze it that first episode got me stoked!
I kept an even keel going in, and wow did my hopes rise immediately.
I thought episode one packed a lot of info and was a pleasure to watch (like it should be shown at film schools how to start a series).

Then it became clear too many episodes for how much story they had.
But I figured they’d make up for it and knock it out of the park.
Now things that get pointed out just make it worse (Hugh, others).

Good things were Jerri Ryan, and allowing her to use her natural good looks (not in an oversexed outfit).
Glad she was in it (even if I need way more explanation how she can become a Borg Queen. 20 year old spinal attachments just have tubes attach by thought and again I don’t have the words.)
Riker was a pleasant surprise, Troi nice too.

Different accent guy was also enjoyable and a bit confusing to see some negative reaction from some of you.
Like TV isn’t showing me an accurate depiction of Ireland and other cultures?
Unheard of! Why would they lie? How else would I know where they’re from (really from)?

I also heard it’s 3 seasons. – Picard Wiki
Second and third seasons were ordered before the first season debuted.
Don’t know if that’s accurate, and things change.

So like I said it wasn’t horrible, I just can’t ignore the faults.
But how cool would it be if season 2 excused all of that, setting up a season 3 that will be the best thing we’ve ever seen?
I am so there for every episode!

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Rocket, Uncle Retrospective

Sean Robinson wrote:

But how cool would it be if season 2 excused all of that, setting up a season 3 that will be the best thing we’ve ever seen?

It would be nice if it improved, but after this first season was a bit of a damp squib I think there’s a risk of a lot of people never coming back to find out.

How unlike a Star Trek show to have a first series that was considered lacklustre.

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Todd, Sean Robinson, Uncle Retrospective, Dave

I guess it’s like we’ve said before, far more widely than Star Trek most TV shows don’t really find their feet until a second or third season.

I think Picard is a little different though as it was more of a known quantity from the start. This wasn’t a brand new concept and cast where the show had to discover who the characters really were over the course of its first season, this was always going to be continuation of TNG to some extent, building on a lot of stuff that is well established.

It also feels like there was already a lot of goodwill going into this, which doesn’t always seem to be the case with new Star Trek (some longtime fans seemed determined to hate Discovery, for example).

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

I really liked it. I didn’t think the finale was the best, but loved the season overall. I’m already planning on buying the Blu-Ray.

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lorcan_nagle

lorcan_nagle wrote:

How unlike a Star Trek show to have a first series that was considered lacklustre.

TOS’s first season was, arguably its best. (The second one would be a really close second.)

As far as other Trek series goes, it’s not unusual for tv series to take a couple of seasons to feel out their strengths and weaknesses, find their direction, and get a budget increase.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

So, returned to this and watched the second half.

Eps 6-7 weren’t bad, but the Romulan murder incest duo of Narek and Narissa really grate.  Elnor remains one of the best things about it.  Didn’t care for the tragic angle they decided to inflict on Riker and Troi.

Ep 8 was more-or-less the revelation episode, but I can’t say it really works for me.  The problem is they have to work with the older material, hence all the talk of infiltrating Soong’s work.  But does anyone really buy this lot wouldn’t have killed Soong as soon as he started work on data, never mind finished it?  They come across as this lot scanning everything, that search you did about AI? You just wrote your death sentence.  Hell, the Zhat Vash deliberately destroyed a fleet built to help their people – biding their time and being restrained doesn’t fit at all.

Ep 9-10 finished it off, but it was still far too indulgent to the likes of Narek and his hell-spawned sister.  I have to agree with the criticism of wasting a Borg cube, that shouldn’t be possible,  though the imagery of the crashed cube in water was kind of cool.  I like that Riker turns up, Clancy can still go fuck herself, though in this new, edgy Trek, I wouldn’t be surprised if she was snorting coke and banging male prozzies in her office.  Anyone who objects? Gets told to fuck off and is shit canned.

I find it hard to believe no one on the creative staff was entirely unaware of Mass Effect.  The whole thing screams Reapers. A missed opportunity in this respect was going with the demonic depiction.  There does seem to be a big US-UK rift on super AI, the US take is to fear it because the AIs could kill us; the UK version is they could kill us but can’t be arsed to because it would be so easy.  Rendering them as galactic hippies, packing starkillers, could have been rather more interesting.

As to the end – I’m not really buying it’s all solved and everything’s happy.  The series certainly made Trek grimmer and darker, I’m not sure it made it better and, due to how it plotted it all out, these last episodes had to cover a whole lot of ground.  Less would have been more here.

Picard’s now an android? Er, OK.  What happened to that shitbag Narek? Unknown. Jurati? Needs to go in the slammer, you don’t get off murder just because you feel really, really bad about it.  Raffi? Kind of inclined to say she can crawl back in the bottle and stay there, just ended up disliking the character.  Rios? Probably the best of the new lot, though he’s outshone by the holograms.

All in all? It needs to do better, wait, this is New Trek, it needs to fucking do better in future.

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Todd

I watched this early episode of The Simpsons the other day and realised it was basically describing Picard.

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Christian, Todd, lorcan_nagle, Sean Robinson, Ben

[Al-x]

The last posting was Jun 7, 2020

The things that happened since. Wow…

So season 2 premiered and it is just the first episode.

So I am bumping this back to life and relevancy.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Al-x.

I really enjoyed the first episode. It was a lot of fun and moved along at a great pace. Not impressed with the stuff about Picard’s mum. That looks grim dark in a way that’s just not needed.

I’ll reserve judgment because of how quickly they fucked up season 1 but I live in vague hope.

I know someone who’s seen the first three episodes and she says it seems to be better structured than series 1 to that point, so hopefully it’ll stick the landing better this time. I did really enjoy that first episode but I hope the parts of the 25th century we see there are more than just a framing device for a story in this alternate timeline.

Did like how, in response to a Borg ship turning up, Starfleet immediately sends a fleet!

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Rocket

In a nice touch, most of the ships in the fleet are Star Trek Online designs

This thread title has spoilers so:

The Queen does a “Dr. Octopus” on the bridge, tells him to look up. The next thing we see is Picard waking up in the chateau and things are all different… Nice for Q to change his looks to “catch up”.

One thing I did like was that conversation in the beginning where she tells him what would come out if he were to “stop”. Very interesting thought for a workaholic or someone who is always on the run, to just stop and let whatever it may be they are trying to outrun to catch up and then face whatever head on.

Picard then went for a kiss, but awkwardly stopped himself.

Well, that quickly became total bollocks.

Exactly

Very predictable as we all said it would be.

I was getting this Back to the Future 2 vibe
you know the Biff alternate timeline.

I don’t really care how Earth became so invincible
even capturing the Borg Queen

It is not a stay tuned every week show now, but a
binge months later on a really boring and sh*tty day

Hmm, who’s “we” ?

You’re right

I said all this when I saw the trailer preview.

Can’t recall much of the trailer but also don’t tend to have much of the plot prediction ability everyone else seems to.

Ep 2.1 I quite liked, ep 2.2 quickly went off a cliff.

It’s on Prime so, while I have access to it, I’ll see how it turns out.  Hopefully 2.3 recovers.

I didn’t mind it, based on the assumption it goes somewhere.

But what takes me out of it is Patrick Stewart’s age. No way to hide it, and that character would’ve been ‘whacked’ by someone a third of his age (well, definitely in the Mirror Universe, but here too I would think).
Just looks silly.

This show needed to be made 10 years ago, even 5.

Ben wrote:

Can’t recall much of the trailer but also don’t tend to have much of the plot prediction ability everyone else seems to.

Well, basically season 1 was flat as no one really got into the synth stories. When the rumors and trailer on season 2 came out, you can sort of tell they were going back to the old formulas like the Q/Picard relationship, Q magic, alternate timeline, mission to restore things, etc. and bring in some familiar characters like Guinan, the Borg Queen, etc.

I would add the situation parallels the first Star Trek movie (V’ger) being flat, so they came back with red uniforms, and of course KHAN!!!

I liked episode 2. I did not question why everyone was where they were. Seven as President was a stretch but Picard as a Race Killer was very interesting. the recognition of all the skulls made me happy. the Raffi Elnor story was amusing too. Just like Gotham future state, Picard decided to name a villain the Magistrate. Leaving Agnes to care for the Borg Queen was a large misstep but it looked to be plot armor of some sort.

Funny when they met each other in Episode 2 to figure it all out.

So what is the difference between a parallel universe and an alternate timeline?

Al-x wrote:

So what is the difference between a parallel universe and an alternate timeline?

Other Star Trek nerds fans explain it for you here

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Todd

Thanks @ njerry

Once again you have proven yourself to be a gentleman and a scholar

😀

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njerry

Gotta say, everything with the Borg Queen has been great. I’m broadly enjoying the show, but the actor playing her is a real highlight this year and having her share a creepy scene with Patrick Stewart and Alison Pill and she’s able to keep up with them shows her acting chops very well

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Rocket, Al-x, Sean Robinson

[Al-x]

Just Give the guy the damn badge already!

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• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Al-x.

Just to be clear:

The ousting of Khan and his enhanced human following were ousted in the 90s.

Correct?

Al-x wrote:

Just to be clear:

The ousting of Khan and his enhanced human following were ousted in the 90s.

Correct?

You are correct. The Eugenics Wars were from 1992-1996.

Todd wrote:

The ousting of Khan and his enhanced human following were ousted in the 90s.

Correct?

You are correct. The Eugenics Wars were from 1992-1996.

I think a retcon would be forgivable but may not be needed if they wanted to involve Khan.
Q changed something, right? Would not surprise me in the slightest if it’s revealed that he was dropped into 2024 and caused the changes.
Already feels like they’re taking stuff from Star Trek IV, why not from II (“it really was the best of those movies”)
Mix that in with Borg, and 7 of 9, and I think the writers room just wants to take the best stuff from the past and mix it together.

Sean Robinson wrote:

Already feels like they’re taking stuff from Star Trek IV, why not from II

To be fair, skipping around the sun to go back in time is from TOS, specifically the episodes Tomorrow is Yesterday and Assignment: Earth

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Sean Robinson, Al-x, Todd

I was just including the fact that Earth is about 30 years removed from the ousting of Khan and company. Also maybe Gary 7 and that girl might be around.

Or they might run into Sisko impersonating Gabriel Bell.

Too much to include in Picard?

——-

Always on point @lorcan_nagle

You also a gentleman and a scholar…

Cheers everyone.😃

——-

I will not be at all surprised if either of the following happens:

1. They got Avery Brooks to come back and he’ll appear as Sisko posing as Gabriel Bell, but de-aged via CG.
2. La Sirena’s crew end up skulking around the Bell Riots, inserted into the background of shots from Past Tense a la Trials and Tribble-ations

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Al-x

And DeLancie turns 74 today…

Long time

My take on Ep 3(to get away from meaningless stuff like Khan and Q’s bday). I love Cabrera’s acting.  his scenes in the clinic were great. the Mind sharing scene was also first rate. BQ is spooky. The actor who plays her has been in many things and almost all of them have been great. Raffi and her monofilament line to sanity is starting to get a bit annoying.  I find it amusing that they have shed themselves of the 2 youngest members of last year’s cast as soon as it was feasible..

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lorcan_nagle

[Al-x]

Rocket wrote:

My take on Ep 3(to get away from meaningless stuff like Khan and Q’s bday)

Hmmm.. Someone now wants to stay on topic. 😂

Well… let us see who this Watcher is as well as hints on what is wrong with Q.

As for alternate timelines and parallel universes, this diagram might shed some light:

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• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.

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Todd

that’s the most useless diagram I’ve seen… xD

Yeah, anyways, this is boring… first they do a bland set up episode, followed by ANOTHER “dark reflection universe” episode, and then they go back to present day so the show can be cheaper… fuck that shit. I think I’m just gonna forget about these new Star Trek shows… shit, at least the Star Wars shows are short.

[Al-x]

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.

So, that was an unambiguous Voyage Home reference.

[Al-x]

This series prompted me to check out the final episode of Voyager.

There was a scene in the end where the Janeway from the future faced the Borg Queen
and the Queen immediately tried to assimilate her. That Janeway was prepared with some antigen/virus
whatever in her system which the Queen siphoned when she assimilated her. Then the virus
spread, everything was exploding, the Queen started falling apart by the limbs, it was
ugly.

Then the ship made it through one of the warp conduits back to Earth.

That is how the Borg got seriously weakened.
————-

Just seen it

Virtue signaling, humanist philosophy

Give humanity another chance

Witty banter about being out of time

The cruelty of ICE and racism

————-

And… I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if the BQ is secretly trying to contact the Hive at that time.
Something like in that other movie…you know.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.

SPOILERS

I don’t mind a different actress playing Guinan (prefer it, actually), even if you gloss over the fact she’s supposed to look like Whoopi Goldberg in San Francisco 1893 (ST:TNG “Times Arrow” eps 5×26 & 6×1), but not remembering Picard at all?

Unless I’ve missed something, just dont give me Q as an answer.

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Al-x

[Al-x]

Sean Robinson wrote:

SPOILERS I don’t mind a different actress playing Guinan (prefer it, actually), even if you gloss over the fact she’s supposed to look like Whoopi Goldberg in San Francisco 1893 (ST:TNG “Times Arrow” eps 5×26 & 6×1), but not remembering Picard at all? Unless I’ve missed something, just dont give me Q as an answer.

That has been covered already.

According to just about most of the social media discussion, “Times Arrow” never happened because of Q’s changes to the timline ie. no Federation.  If that makes any sense to you at this point.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.

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Sean Robinson

[Sean Robinson]

But I thought the change was coming in 3 days?

So I guess the answer is “Q” after all. Fix it in 2024, and all the other things he’s done will magically correct themselves.

Edit: Ah, I get it. No STTNG crew to go back in the first place.
Always depends on who’s writing the time travel story.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Sean Robinson.

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lorcan_nagle

I always find it amusing to consider whether the other time travel stories happen when one changes the timeline. Like if the Borg went back to 2064 and assimilated Earth, did Edith Keeler die? If not, did the Borg assimilate a planet of Nazis? Spock was born before the Narada went back in time and created the Kelvin timeline, so did Kelvin Spock also go back in time to help him learn a lesson about grief, or did Prime Spock show up in both timelines?

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Dave, Todd, Sean Robinson, Al-x

[Al-x]

That’s deep. Giving me a headache in fact. 😂

Wait… Originally Keeler got hit and died. McCoy came back to prevent that accident. Then Kirk came back to restore things by holding back McCoy.

So the Borg time travel would have erased McCoy and Kirk but not the first event.

Ugh…

———————————-

As for Guinan, here is an excerpt from (fwiw) the Screenrant site:

Ido Aghayere cast as the younger Guinan also creates a stark contrast to the aged Jean-Luc Picard in Star Trek: Picard season 2. This is likely by design when one remembers Whoopi Goldberg’s Guinan saying how she aged herself on purpose to put her human customers – and Picard – more at ease. The younger Guinan in 2024 is also remarkably frustrated with humanity and angry in ways Goldberg’s Guinan never was, but Picard was able to use the future Guinan’s words to touch upon 2024 Guinan’s trans-temporal awareness, bridging both versions of the El-Aurian. There are obviously further implications to the timeline if none of Star Trek happened as Trekkers remember it, but isolated to Star Trek: Picard, Guinan’s history with Jean-Luc is a side effect. And it stands to reason that Guinan in 2024 doesn’t have memories of Star Trek’s Prime timeline the way Picard and his motley crew do because Guinan hasn’t lived those events yet when Jean-Luc finds her in Star Trek: Picard season 2, episode 4.

 

Also

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-picard-guinan-memory-tng-plot-hole/

And on the chances of running into Sisko impersonating Gabriel Bell:

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-picard-ds9-bell-riots-sisko-reference/

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

I always find it amusing to consider whether the other time travel stories happen when one changes the timeline. Like if the Borg went back to 2064 and assimilated Earth, did Edith Keeler die? If not, did the Borg assimilate a planet of Nazis? Spock was born before the Narada went back in time and created the Kelvin timeline, so did Kelvin Spock also go back in time to help him learn a lesson about grief, or did Prime Spock show up in both timelines?

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Rocket, njerry, lorcan_nagle

Here it is:

https://trekmovie.com/2022/03/27/showrunner-explains-how-star-trek-picard-is-handling-time-travel-and-the-eugenics-wars/?fbclid=IwAR2a9p-9NI6kKuiKR3k92ksc3WAgloq3N3w_8t0KnoTAP5g-Gf2DbcOKV00#l1a2py9si1fvg6c3k8g

[Al-x]

How could the Confederation do all that conquering with the Organians around?

Trekkies… relax bro.

—————-

Some may find this video interesting:

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.

So, people should ring that number on the card Q printed on 21st Century Soong’s 3D printer.

Also, it’s pretty funny that they let Orla Brady use her natural accent as Laris, but here she’s got to do that awful American one.

[Al-x]

The plot thickens

I thought that she would try to contact the Hive in that time period. Now she lives inside the doctor, like the Joker lived inside Batman in one of the Arkham games.

We find out that Q’s days are numbered and he needs Soong.

It was nice that the Gary 7 material from TOS was used.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

So, people should ring that number on the card Q printed on 21st Century Soong’s 3D printer.

Also, it’s pretty funny that they let Orla Brady use her natural accent as Laris, but here she’s got to do that awful American one.

I actually called the number.

It is a voice recording of DeLancie as Q. Kind of fun tbh

😂

[lorcan_nagle]

Yeah, I laughed out loud when I rang it (don’t tell anyone but I used my company phone to ring America)

EDIT, naturally, some people have recorded it and put it on YouTube

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by lorcan_nagle.

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Al-x