The Picard Thread (with SPOILERS)

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#12637

The show starts this week, on CBS All Access in the US, and Amazon in most of the rest of the world.

No sign of the Children of Mars short that serves as a prologue showing up outside the US yet.

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  • #15743

    Picard: The Last, Best Hope

    Unfortunately, this was a book which, from about the halfway mark, I knew I wasn’t going to enjoy.  Does that make it a bad book? Far from it.  And it’s not purely the book’s fault I was unable to like it.

    If you are not enjoying or have yet to be won by the TV series, this book is unlikely to help you.  If you are enjoying the TV series, there is much here you probably will enjoy.

    I’ve read a good deal of McCormack’s previous Trek work and found them to be excellent.  So why can this one not work for me?  Quite simply put it isn’t due to any lack of effort or skill, she takes the best attempt at it she can.  And the book is certainly ambitious covering 2381-2386 all in one go.  The problem is, we know how it ends and there’s certain stuff it can’t go into.  At the same time, certain developments of the TV series undercut parts of the book.  This is particularly so in the case of the Vashti colony.

    However, five, six years ago I likely might have enjoyed it more and been more open to what the TV series is trying.  The problem is it isn’t then and the world feels considerably nastier now.  Does the book reflect that? Yes, quite accurately, which is the problem – this is one reflection I can do without.  A large part of the appeal of Trek for me is it doesn’t take the lower path, it is quite encouraging reading stories where not being a bastard pays off.  When I have read a Trek book it has generally been a positive experience.  This can’t do that, its story simply isn’t that.  Solutions? There aren’t any because no one’s solved it and a Trek book certainly isn’t going to crack it either.

    Nonetheless, what is here is the best possible attempt to render the situation around the collapse of the Romulans, although there are some odd omissions given the author’s skills and ability.  McCormack sketches a picture of Romulan society that I don’t think has been seen before, one devoted to secrecy and paranoia to an unfathomable degree, but the book is far more vague on the post-nova Romulan government.  Maybe that was off-limits to it, but it likely would have benefited from McCormack’s attention.  Clancy doesn’t come out of this well, being a micromanaging exec, but I did like her predecessor as C-in-C, Bordson.

    One of the biggest successes is in portraying and conveying the sheer scale of what was attempted.  To rescue nearly a billion beings, with their government sabotaging it as much as possible, including covering up the actual extent of the looming supernova.  There is also a major tease in the book of what is happening to the Romulan star being artificial.  It never goes anywhere, maybe the answer was off-limits to it, but that really ought to not be forgotten about.   As to Mars and what happened there, it recaps the TV series – expecting that to be answered here is far too big an ask.  That was never on the cards.

    Combined with the last Discovery novel I read, The Enterprise War, again by an author whose work I usually enjoy, John Jackson Miller, it’s quite clear the relationship between the mediums is one where TV says ‘jump’ and the books say ‘how high?’, but TV doesn’t really give a crap.  Were I used to that it would be less of a problem, but I’m not because there’s been a 20 year void in Trek on screen and 2009 Trek doesn’t count because of the unholy Pocket Books and Bad Robot decade-long punch-up.  Because of that the books got to go much further than before, even despite a rare mess-up in how they decided to depict the Section 31 fallout.  In a way, it’s similar to the path taken by the new Wars material, where technically all mediums are equal, but some are more equal than others.  So, time to call it a day and move on? Probably.

    Although, while I might reduce and cut back, I’ll still likely keep an eye on it in case of the odd product that looks good despite all the slings and arrows that high ‘n’ mighty TV and film casually dumps on it.

    Back to the book: It won’t change or convert anyone but it’s a technically accomplished piece that has some things in common with the author’s previous works, but that wasn’t enough to make it work for me.  For anyone who is enjoying the series, this should be on your list of material to look at.

     

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Ben.
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  • #15975

    In retrospect, knowing that Soji ad Dahj’s mum looked like this, it would have been a big hint to their artificial nature:

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  • #16193

    Weird. The vest episode so far seems to have generated the least chat. I mean stuff happened for crying out loud!

  • #16195

    I didn’t find it as entertaining as last week, but yeah, at least stuff happened. Some nice little scenes and once Picard got on the cube it felt like things really got going. Bit of a flat ending though.

  • #16231

    It was a pretty good episode.

    Raffi is my favourite.

    I didn’t like seeing Picard frightened and so vulnerable.

    The Tolkien wood elf should’ve followed him.

  • #16676

    I really enjoyed this week’s episode.  I mean sure, the plot slowed down to a near halt but I’m OK when it’s done in favour of some fantastic character work with Riker and Troi. I know it’s a low bar to cross, but this is easily in the top 5 Troi episodes. Like Raffi, Kestra seems like a fully realised character from her first words,  aided by a great performance from a young actor.

    The stuff on La Sirena and the Artifact did move forward, even if only a little bit.  Alison Pill is giving an amazing performance as Jurati – between this week and last week I think she’s up there with Patrick Stewart in terms of top-tier acting on the show.

    And like yeah, Fs in chat for Hugh.

    In terms of deep dives into continuity, after two weeks of Voyager references we go real far back this time – Riker mentions the Kzinti, an antagonist race in Larry Niven’s Known Space universe which he added to Trek when he wrote the TAS episode The Slaver weapon.  They were mentioned in one or two more TAS episodes, and a couple of feline characters on the TOS-era movies were listed as Kzinti in script or production notes, but never explicitly mentioned as such on screen.  Fearing legal issues, DS9 replaced them with the Tzenkethi and while Star Fleet Battles used them, the Starfleet command computer games based on SFB called them the Mirak instead.

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  • #16677

    Oh, and I meant to say, there’s been a couple of production things that amused me and I keep forgetting to mention – first is Picard’s jacket having a similar cut as the First Contact-era uniforms, and the other is the constant use of 3D printers as props for replicators.

  • #16694

    Wait, they didn’t really go that whole episode without a shot of Riker taking a seat did they?

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  • #16915

    I enjoyed episode 6, it became a better show for a while. The characters and their actions made more sense.I was hooked! I thought we’d turned a page, got over the hump, all that jazz.

    Episode 7… well we’re back to the quality status quo. Oh well.

  • #17342

    Yeah, didn’t like this one. It was pretty boring and corny, really.

    Alison Pill was good.

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  • #17454

    SPOILERS; but interesting if you’re up to dat;

    https://www.queerty.com/star-treks-jonathan-del-arco-fate-hugh-borg-life-actor-showbiz-peril-20200312

     

    EDIT:

    I understand the dramatic use of killing characters. I get the intended impact and I appreciate the pressure of on a showrunner and the writer room to deliver drama and surprise every episode but… you can waste opportunities and the word “squander” does spring to mind.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by SteveUK.
  • #17488

    Tune in next week, kids, when someone calls someone else a cunt!

    Sheesh, this show…

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  • #17489

    How dare Star Trek modernise by using slightly harsher swear words than it did 30 years ago!

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  • #17491

    It adds nothing, it feels unnatural for the style of the franchise, is clearly only being done for some sort of shock value and is being forced into a show that is intrinsically linked to nostalgia for a show from 30 years ago.  (Although the show seems more in keeping with Nemesis rather than TNG.)

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  • #17492

    The same franchise that had characters saying bastard, son of a bitch, and piss in the 80s?  That Star Trek? The one that snuck the word shit onto US TV in 88 by having Picard say “merde”? The same Star Trek that still sees the one episode where O’Brien said “bollocks” regularly censored on TV in the UK?

    Say it ain’t so.

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  • #17497

    I don’t find any of that comparable to the head honcho of Starfleet telling Picard to shut the fuck up.

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  • #17499

    I don’t find any of that comparable to the head honcho of Starfleet telling Picard to shut the fuck up.

    He was being sanctimonious and not even giving her the chance to say he was right. If anything he got off easy.

  • #17523

    I don’t find any of that comparable to the head honcho of Starfleet telling Picard to shut the fuck up.

    Maybe the head honcho thought he was talking to Wesley?

  • #17560

    Putting the cad into the academy.

  • #17574

    I don’t find any of that comparable to the head honcho of Starfleet telling Picard to shut the fuck up.

    Maybe the head honcho thought he was talking to Wesley?

    Even worse than that.  Thanks to modern Trek’s SJW cuck agenda, the Admiral chewing out Picard is a womz

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  • #17597

    Well I mean, she voiced what I was thinking, so I don’t see the issue…

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  • #17603

    I don’t find any of that comparable to the head honcho of Starfleet telling Picard to shut the fuck up.

    Maybe the head honcho thought he was talking to Wesley?

    Even worse than that.  Thanks to modern Trek’s SJW cuck agenda, the Admiral chewing out Picard is a womz

    And Picard didn’t ask to speak to the man in charge?!?!

    Star Trek really has gone to shit.

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  • #17609

    I don’t find any of that comparable to the head honcho of Starfleet telling Picard to shut the fuck up.

    Maybe the head honcho thought he was talking to Wesley?

    Even worse than that.  Thanks to modern Trek’s SJW cuck agenda, the Admiral chewing out Picard is a womz

    And Picard didn’t ask to speak to the man in charge?!?!

    Star Trek really has gone to shit.

    If he had, Admiral Clancy probably would have said fuck at him again

  • #17614

    I understand the dramatic use of killing characters. I get the intended impact and I appreciate the pressure of on a showrunner and the writer room to deliver drama and surprise every episode but… you can waste opportunities and the word “squander” does spring to mind.

    Yeah, I didn’t like them killing off Hugh. It seemed needlessly cruel, wasting a great character just to show once more how evil whatshername is.

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  • #17648

    Yeah, I’m not a fan of arbitrarily killing off characters; I generally find that killing off characters is the least interesting thing writers can do with them.

    (An exception would be Game of Thrones, which has a reputation for killing off characters and being quite bloodthirsty, but those deaths are planned within the context of the storyline and propel the story forward.)

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  • #17668

    It usually works for me when Whedon does it as well, because the impact of the death on the story’s world is so great. Everyone fell apart after Tara’s death.

    (That’s what always bothered me about Wash’s death though. Zoe never had the opportunity to mourn him; she had to get over it too quickly.)

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  • #17675

    I don’t find any of that comparable to the head honcho of Starfleet telling Picard to shut the fuck up.

    Maybe the head honcho thought he was talking to Wesley?

    Even worse than that.  Thanks to modern Trek’s SJW cuck agenda, the Admiral chewing out Picard is a womz

    And Picard didn’t ask to speak to the man in charge?!?!

    Star Trek really has gone to shit.

    If he had, Admiral Clancy probably would have said fuck at him again

    Well, that’s different. It’s a man telling him to fuck off. That actually means something.

  • #17794

    I just caught up with the last couple of episodes. It really is two hours of plot squeezed into ten, isn’t it? So slow and long-winded.

    And yet I’m still watching for some reason – partly sunk cost at this point, but I am still genuinely interested to see how the story plays out.

     

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  • #17802

    I’m hoping it ends with a musical number.

  • #17810

    So, it’s been pointed out (correctly) that there is now a regenerating Borg Cube in play, an that could be a game changer if it’s used right but… I still don’t feel like 7 of 9 really achieved much when she was Queen? It makes total character sense that she wouldn’t want to be Queen and that she didn’t want to use the still-Borg as soldiers but when she finally stepped up, they still got massacred and the Ex-B’s with them.

    Big moment, that lead to nothing at all.

    And I also feel like a chunk got cut out of the scene where Soji highjacks the ship? How did Picard actually get everyone onside again? They skipped over that part, which is a shame in a Picard show.

  • #17826

    I still don’t feel like 7 of 9 really achieved much when she was Queen? It makes total character sense that she wouldn’t want to be Queen and that she didn’t want to use the still-Borg as soldiers but when she finally stepped up, they still got massacred and the Ex-B’s with them. Big moment, that lead to nothing at all

    I thought it made for an effective character moment for her – would she be overwhelmed, would she unplug again, and what would be the psychological cost? – but it was all fairly brief and short-term and yes, didn’t really come to anything.

  • #17895

    They set up for an army of Borg, they set up her distress that she’d lose herself and try to continue as Queen and then…

    fumble

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  • #18028

    Yeah, we should’ve seen the fucking Borg fucking do something.

    Other than assimiliate evil female Romulan. Because that was what was happening, right? She’s not dead, she’s going to be Borg?

     

    Other stuff: Loved Captain Rios and his holograms. That part was really good fun. Suspense of disbelief is way stretched with him meeting an android before all this. Also, reason Romulan robo-hunting turns out to be a bit of a crap story, too. Maybe it’ll improve when we finally find out what actually happened, but I’m kind of doubting it. One very simple question, for example: Why the fuck is this even a big secret for them? Why does their civilisation not openly pronounce and follow dictions along the lines of Butler’s jihad?

    Still, the last one was a pretty good episode. Stuff happened. Rios holograms. Soji taking shit over. Alison Pill doing great work.

    It was alright.

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  • #18033

    Pretty sure Narissa beamed out to one of the Warbirds escaping the Artefact. There was a glow of light when she was mobbed by the XBs and then it cut to the fleet warping away.

  • #18060

    Ah, okay. Damn. Should could’ve died as far as I am concerned.

    I hope the Borg cube comes back, or they really wasted that story’s potential.

  • #18061

    Oh, and by the way, speaking of the Borg – I wonder what it is those artificial intelligence are supposedly going to do that is so much worse than what the Borg are doing. I mean, annihilating and assimiliation whole civilisations and spreading that machine virus everywhere seems as bad as it can get. What can possibly be in that vision that’s so much worse? If it’s just androids killing a lot of people I’ll be disppointed.

  • #18064

    I think the show is leaning towards the ancient race either being wrong about their prediction, or that the 24th Century Alpha and Beta Quadrant civilisations will succeed where their predecessors failed. Picard’s speech about them having amazing tools to use seemed to be leaning in that direction at least.

    As for the Borg, maybe they don’t count as being a terrible synthetic lifeforms because they’re part organic, and therefore only as bad as say, the Klingons or Cardassians at their most hegemonistic?

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  • #18072

    Oh, and by the way, speaking of the Borg – I wonder what it is those artificial intelligence are supposedly going to do that is so much worse than what the Borg are doing. I mean, annihilating and assimiliation whole civilisations and spreading that machine virus everywhere seems as bad as it can get. What can possibly be in that vision that’s so much worse? If it’s just androids killing a lot of people I’ll be disppointed.

    the impression I got was that the threat isn’t the android but something else that shows up and annihilates all life in the universe when androids reach a certain level. It’s basically the reapers from mass effect.

    The Romulans keep it secret because that’s what Romulans do. This series has stressed over and over that keeping secrets is an essential part of Romulan culture/identity.

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  • #18078

    One very simple question, for example: Why the fuck is this even a big secret for them? Why does their civilisation not openly pronounce and follow dictions along the lines of Butler’s jihad?

    I do find myself sort of put off by the whole Zhat Vash thing.

    First, it seems really tacked on. This doesn’t seem to have been a concern for the Romulans before now, and they never gave a shit about Data being an officer on the Federation’s Flag Ship. That alone is something that should freak the fuck out of the Zhat Vash, and I don’t see how they wouldn’t have made some kind of move on Data during his time on the Enterprise. Never mind that they let Lore run around all over  the galaxy.

    And second, you mention reference Dune. The “machines taking over” has been such a staple in so many high-profile science fiction franchises like The Matrix, The Terminator, and Battlestar Galactica. I’d rather not Star Trek go there as well, even if they’re probably going to take it in a different direction (as we heard in Picard’s gib speech).

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  • #18084

    Again I feel like the show adequately rationalized this. They’re not interested in individual androids. Their concern is an Android race reaching a certain level. The Romulans infiltrated star fleet when Soon started building androids but it wasn’t until the federation started mass producing them that they acted.

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  • #18098

    It’s basically the Gaian Bottleneck – the idea that there are a number of existential threats sentient life needs to overcome in order to survive long enough to get into space – environmental disaster, war and so on.  But like here it’s an external threat as opposed to our own worst instincts.

  • #18169

    Is “The Destroyer” actually an external threat? It seems kind of ambiguous at the moment, but my initial take was that “The Destroyer” (Seb-Cheneb?) was just the inevitable outcome of sufficiently advanced AI destroying its creators, and not a third party that sweeps in to destroy both AI and its creators.

     

  • #18176

    Yes it’s external.

    https://www.newsweek.com/star-trek-picard-episode-8-romulan-zhat-vash-conspiracy-broken-pieces-soji-data-daughter-1491822

  • #18190

    The Romulans keep it secret because that’s what Romulans do. This series has stressed over and over that keeping secrets is an essential part of Romulan culture/identity.

    When it is that counter-productive to your goals? They are also a very pragmatic and calculating species. They should’ve realised that the best thing they could’ve done was to not only share that information, but to aggressively missionise with hit.

  • #18191

    The Romulans keep it secret because that’s what Romulans do. This series has stressed over and over that keeping secrets is an essential part of Romulan culture/identity.

    When it is that counter-productive to your goals? They are also a very pragmatic and calculating species. They should’ve realised that the best thing they could’ve done was to not only share that information, but to aggressively missionise with hit.

    The Romulans are all about making things needlessly complicated, and really every time they’ve done something that was practical on a grand scale it was the result of an intricate plot – like teaming up with the Obsidian Order to try and wipe out the Founders.

  • #18217

    The Romulans keep it secret because that’s what Romulans do. This series has stressed over and over that keeping secrets is an essential part of Romulan culture/identity.

    When it is that counter-productive to your goals? They are also a very pragmatic and calculating species. They should’ve realised that the best thing they could’ve done was to not only share that information, but to aggressively missionise with hit.

    The Romulans are all about making things needlessly complicated, and really every time they’ve done something that was practical on a grand scale it was the result of an intricate plot – like teaming up with the Obsidian Order to try and wipe out the Founders.

    And yet, a Cardassian tailor manipulated the Romulan Empire into joining the Federation against the Dominion.

  • #18229

    The Romulans keep it secret because that’s what Romulans do. This series has stressed over and over that keeping secrets is an essential part of Romulan culture/identity.

    When it is that counter-productive to your goals? They are also a very pragmatic and calculating species. They should’ve realised that the best thing they could’ve done was to not only share that information, but to aggressively missionise with hit.

    The Romulans are all about making things needlessly complicated, and really every time they’ve done something that was practical on a grand scale it was the result of an intricate plot – like teaming up with the Obsidian Order to try and wipe out the Founders.

    And yet, a Cardassian tailor manipulated the Romulan Empire into joining the Federation against the Dominion.

    You know, I suspect that he wasn’t just a tailor after all…

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  • #18234

    He was much more of a tinker.

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  • #18273

    Man, I bet Kirk wishes he wound up stranded on a planet of sexy robot ladies.

  • #18280

    Man, I bet Kirk wishes he wound up stranded on a planet of sexy robot ladies.

    To be fair, that’s every teenage boys wish.

  • #18287

    See, for Kirk that would probably just make him think of the end of Mudd’s Women and wince.

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  • #18288

    Man, I bet Kirk wishes he wound up stranded on a planet of sexy robot ladies.

    To be fair, that’s every teenage boys wish.

    Yes, but boys are stupid.

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  • #18301

    The Romulans are all about making things needlessly complicated, and really every time they’ve done something that was practical on a grand scale it was the result of an intricate plot – like teaming up with the Obsidian Order to try and wipe out the Founders.

    Man, it’s a miracle those guys ever get anything done at all.

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  • #18419

    At this rate I’m half expecting the final episode to see the cast turning to camera and explicitly telling the viewer “I’m sorry you wasted ten hours of you life on this, I promise the next season will be better.”

     

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  • #18434

    Jesus fuck, I don’t even… I mean, come the fuck on!

    There’s not much to say about this episode except that Evil Soji was so very badly done that it all feels like a lost cause now. I mean, shit, man. With two sentences out of her mouth, it was just, hey, Why is this one evil? What a horrifyingly bad decision. If they’d been more sutble with her, maybe the story would have worked in some way. But let’s be honest, it wouldn’t, because there’s just no reason why in an entire species of naive and lovable androids, there is just one who for no reason at all is an ultra-clever conniver and manipulator who will kill one of her own in a convoluted plan to make Soji pick her side. If they’d given her some kind of backstory, some reason why she is different than the others – maybe call back to Lore – then that could have worked to some extent, I guess. But the way it was done here, it just didn’t work in the least.

    I see that Akiva Goldman directed the episode himself, which explains the terrible sledgehammer direction, but man. This is just one of those pieces of TV where you’re left wondering how at multiple points of the road to the finished episode, nobody turned around and said, “Guys, do you think this is really a good idea?”.

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  • #18439

    maybe call back to Lore

    I’ve seen some people speculate that Altan Inigo Soong (A.I. Soong!) could be Lore somehow. It’s possible I guess.

  • #18441

    Soong made the mistake of loading Evil Soji with Windows Vista.

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  • #18446

    Space orchids!

    How big is the Borg cube?

  • #18447

    So Ivr been sort of half watching this.

    The closest touchstone for meid the Mandalorian being a new series from a beloved sci-fi franchise with a deep lore.

    I kind of know star wars a bit better and im not sure if thats a factor in me enjoying tbat series more but maybe it is.

    Picard is fine. Its really only pulled allong by Stewart. Literally everything else seems “for the fans”.

    I do find it interesting that both this and the Mandalorian mrt with largely unfavourable responses here, but seem to be reasonably popular elsewhere.

  • #18448

    I like Picard. It’s no Westworld but Patrick Stewart and Data-human are very nice.

    I get the impression it would mean more if I knew the background to all the meaningful looks they give each other when the soundtrack swells.

    It was a weird pastel-hued robo-commune this week – there was bound to be a baddie.

    Not seen The Mandalorian, but I’ll probably like it because Boba Bulloch was very nice to me. Plus Baby Yoda.

  • #18455

    Well in Picard’s defense… it does have more plot than the Mandalorian, and it’s miles better than that Discovery cringe-fest… so I’d say it’s the best out of those 3 shows, but that’s not like a high bar or anything… =/

  • #18457

    Picard is fine. Its really only pulled along by Stewart.

    Given that they’re going in to a second season I can only assume that all the stuff about Picard’s ill health is going to be resolved next episode.

    It seems unthinkable that they would kill him off but keep going with the show under the character’s name – like you say Stewart is one of the only really good things about it – but it also feels like it would be a bit dishonest to focus so heavily on his mortality and then do nothing with it, so maybe there’s some kind of resolution coming involving the AIs.

    Didn’t they say in the Riker episode that there was some kind of android-related miracle cure that wasn’t available to their dead child because of the reaction to the Mars incident? Could that be foreshadowing something?

  • #18466

    There’s a spare AI body hanging around waiting for a mind, Picard’s body is failing him, the opening credits culminate in Picard being pieced together and there have been several reminders of his time as a not-quite-a-real-boy Borg days… Hmm…

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by saga.
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  • #18477

    So the next series will be robo-Picard?

  • #18480

    At this rate I’m half expecting the final episode to see the cast turning to camera and explicitly telling the viewer “I’m sorry you wasted ten hours of you life on this, I promise the next season will be better.”

     

    So far, I’m up to 5 wasted hours and you lot aren’t encouraging me to go for the full 10.

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  • #18503

    Better than that time when Optimus Prime lived on a floppy disk.

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  • #18516

    This is just one of those pieces of TV where you’re left wondering how at multiple points of the road to the finished episode, nobody turned around and said, “Guys, do you think this is really a good idea?”.

    At the random of the finale, Picard talks about how he needs some time to relax so he decides to go to a new theme park that was created by Delos, Inc.

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  • #18529

    Or we’re really viewing another part of the park: PicardWorld.

    It would explain the samurai wood elf. He’s dandered in from another World.

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  • #18552

    This is just one of those pieces of TV where you’re left wondering how at multiple points of the road to the finished episode, nobody turned around and said, “Guys, do you think this is really a good idea?”.

    There’s a lot of this going around lately, from the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy, to the current season of Doctor Who, to the current run of Star Trek series.

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  • #18560

    So the next series will be robo-Picard?

    It does seem to obviously all be set up for this, but, I mean, Patrick Stewart will still be in his eighties. I mean, you wouldn’t have your robot body look and move like that, would you?

  • #18567

    That’s why he’ll be played by Tom Hardy.

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  • #18584

    That’ll make Todd really happy.

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  • #18598

    Especially when Picard suddenly develops a penchant for big hats and coats.

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  • #18600

    And funny voices.

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  • #18611

    I could totally see Tom Hardy in this outfit:

     

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  • #18619

    Especially when Picard suddenly develops a penchant for big hats and coats.

    And extreme violence?

    Wait, that was episode five.

  • #18655

    Sneak peek of Picard in Season 2:
    t

    BONUS PICTURE:
    h

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  • #18656

    Picard painting his arse blue and growling incoherently would improve this show by 500%.

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  • #18948

    The Big Twist in Star Trek: Picard Was … $79 Stock Footage?

  • #18955

    Apparently CBS All Access are making the show free to view.  Presumably this will only be in the US

  • #19059

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  • #19073

    Spock also did a mindmeld with V’ger.

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  • #19076

    So, from what I’m reading here, they don’t need Picard, they need Shepherd.

  • #19079

    Poor IG-88 was never the same afterwards.

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  • #19080

    Spock looks like the most dedicated barista ever.

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  • #19128

    Not that I care the least bit, but wouldn’t the problematic thing be that an android autodidactically self-taught herself how to do the mind-meld and that she was the one to perform it (as opposed to a Vulcan performing it on a machine intelligence)?

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  • #19133

    Not that I care the least bit, but wouldn’t the problematic thing be that an android autodidactically self-taught herself how to do the mind-meld and that she was the one to perform it (as opposed to a Vulcan performing it on a machine intelligence)?

    That boat sailed during TNG, the vulcan nerve pinch has frequently been said to have a psychic element to it and Data was able to perform it in Unification.

    Also, androids are not robots.  Data had biological components, he always needed to eat to maintain them – his skin was warm and natural, his hair grew. There’s no reason that a Soong-type android couldn’t have all the biological components needed to perform a mind-meld and team themselves how to do so.

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  • #19149

    There’s no reason that a Soong-type android couldn’t have all the biological components needed to perform a mind-meld and teach themselves how to do so.

    Well, apart from how no other species has managed to recreate the Vulcan mind-meld, even amongst those who have experienced it or might have had a teacher (though I suppose the Vulcans probably wouldn’t want to teach it to anybody else).

    Or has there been? I took a short look at some nerd trek wiki and couldn’t find an example of any non-Vulcan doing it, but there might be one?

  • #19160

    The main thing I can think of is Burnham’s link to Sarek in DISCO series 1, which was a side-effect of him mind-melding with her when she was injured as a child.  She was able to initiate contact with him with technological assistance.

    But all across Trek, it’s clear that psychic powers exist – the Vulcans aren’t the only telepathic species, there is the ability for telepathic biological lifeforms to connect with sufficiently advanced technological ones, especially as we’ve seen technology used to enhance psychic abilites on multiple occasions.  There is no reason to assume the door is one-way

  • #19183

    Well, yeah, but the mind-meld is a pretty special thing for the Vulcans in Trek and just nilly-willy having other suddenly be able to do it just to show how brilliant/dangerous they are is a shortcut that loses more than it brings in, I would say.

    On the other hand, I have no idea how they could’ve otherwise resolved the thing with the vision. And that was a twist that I actually liked.

  • #19185

    Trek’s well-established at ignoring technologies or discoveries that should radically change the way their society functions as well though.  Like how they conveniently can’t restore people using a Transporter even though it cloned Riker perfectly that one time.  Or how nobody goes to the Ba’ku planet to be rejuvenated.

  • #19188

    Anyway, the series finale?   I really liked it, I think the people who have given up on the show won’t be lured back by it or anything, but I’ve enjoyed the entire show and this didn’t disappoint.

    The biggest misfire of the series has to be the Artefact.  I’m not sire if the writers just weren’t able to land their ideas around it, or that it became more important to the viewers than they thought it might, but it’s just there, being this huge thing, and nothing that happens in or around it amounts to much.  Like this week, after Seven killed Narissa, I was expecting her to use the weapons Narissa brought back online to help defend the planet.  But nothing.  Alton Soong seemed to be all over the place as well.  He was all on board from bringing MechaCthulu into the Milky Way when he thought Narek had killed Saga, but changed his mind when he realised Sutra had did it?  eeeeeeeh.

    The other thing I’m meh on is them transferring Picard to a Synth body. It feels like they brought back his Irumodic Syndrome just to add a tiny bit of drama, and that time could have been spent on… say the Artefact.

    The things I did like?  Pretty much everything else.  All the interactions between the cast shone, I love this ensemble, and I really like that they all got a moment or two here.  Wouldn’t mind a Short Trek or something expanding on Raffi and Seven’s apparent romance.  Also, I really liked the conclusion to the main plot.  For all the hue and cry about Trek being dark and edgy and not like Trek, the conclusion to every single story arc in the modern shows has been really Star Trekky – Burnham talks Georgiou out of detonating the bomb; Burnham figures out that she was the Red Angel at parts, Picard talks Soji out of summoning MechaCthulu through self-sacrifice.  The asthethic is darker and modernistic, but the themes and ideas are still the same at their core.

    And the emotional core of this episode – Picard and Data’s conversation in the simulation?  That was beautiful.  It definitely tugged on the old heart strings.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by lorcan_nagle.
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  • #19194

    I didn’t enjoy that at all.

    But I’ll think on it before posting more. Suffice to say, I’m the anti-Lorcan right now. :scratch:

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  • #19197

    RISE OF THE ANTI-LORCAN!!!

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  • #19205

    So… you guys liked the Borg Cube doing not much and the lack of drama around Picard’s death, but didn’t like the strong chemistry between the cast and very Trek conclusion to the main plot?

  • #19218

    Re: Trek and Telepathy

    There were telepathic humans in Old Trek.  There’s a telepathic subspecies of Andorian; then there are the Medusans; and the Deltans, and Betazoids.  Oh, and those children from the TNG episode whose immune systems were so over engineered they were killing their parents; they were telepathic and telekinetic.

    Really, I’m more surprised there isn’t more tech-based telepathy in Trek.

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  • #19219

    I have yet to determine if I’m pro-Lorcan although, for a moment, he did have me thinking I’d lost a day.

    It is now Picard o’clock here.

  • #19222

    Yeah… well, at least the main theme music was good!

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  • #19236

    I’m perpendicular-Lorcan.

  • #19247

    Regarding the Borg Cube: Maybe it will come into play in the second or third season. It and the surviving XBs are still on the planet of the synths. I could see them getting up to something.

    Regarding Picard’s fate: I thought that the whole thing about giving him a synth body was a quite — and I generally don’t like to use this term — fanficcy. Were I charge of the series, I probably would have done something less drastic like cure his space Alzheimers by injecting positrons into his brain or something. Or even some kind of positron treatment that would have left him with a partially positronic brain.

    Regarding Data: Sad to see Data go, though his death was well done and it makes a certain amount of sense that Data, who always wanted to be human, would want to experience a finite lifespan and death. But a part of me also thinks that Data is a unique creature, and deserved to endure for centuries, like Star Trek’s version of the Wandering Jew (or Hob Gadling), who could even appear in the third season of Discovery, which apparently takes place some one thousand years from the current Trek era.

    I wonder if we’ve seen the last of the “MechaCthulhu” (as Lorcan puts it). I thought that the Synthetic Alliance was an interesting idea, but it didn’t feel fully developed, and all we saw were a bunch of mechanical tentacles that looked like they came from The Matrix. The existence of the Synthetic Alliance, living outside of the galaxy, might be a reason Star Trek has never really encountered robots in its many decades of incarnations. The Synthetic Alliance might have even  been responsible for V’Ger.

     

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by Jason.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by Jason.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by Jason.
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