The Picard Thread (with SPOILERS)

Topic

The show starts this week, on CBS All Access in the US, and Amazon in most of the rest of the world.

No sign of the Children of Mars short that serves as a prologue showing up outside the US yet.

Replies

Rocket wrote:

but it was Patrick Stewart

That’s the main reason I still enjoyed ep 1 and will keep watching.

Also, Jesus, that guy is 80 now. How long can he keep doing this job?

Christian wrote:

Rocket wrote:

but it was Patrick Stewart

That’s the main reason I still enjoyed ep 1 and will keep watching.

Also, Jesus, that guy is 80 now. How long can he keep doing this job?

They’ve talked about doing a 3-year run for Picard, and presumably a chunk of that is Stewart not wanting to be running up flights of stairs for too long.

Confused about some things here…

I thought the Romulan Borg work was a secret operation but it sounded like they were openly recruiting people now.  So, the Federation is cool with this venture?

Zhat Vash represents a secret Romulan force that has been operating for thousands of years with the express intent of destroying artificial life forms? Really?Androids pissed off Romulans that much? These guys never came after Data and he was the most famous android in the galaxy.

If I have this right, the Romulans and the Federation were on the same page about a decade earlier in the Dominion War. So, what the hell happened over the course of ten years that was so bad it would make 14 Federation members threaten to pull out if the Federation dared to try to save the Romulans from certain death?  That’s like if some earthquake destroyed Moscow and the USA refused to help out because if they did Texas would secede.

Well there was that whole thing during the Dominion War where a Starfleet officer manipulated them into entering the war by having a senator assassinated.  They could chill relations if they found out.

Or when they tried to place a military base in the Bajoran system disguised as a hospital.

Or that other time during the Dominion War where they abducted and tortured a Starfleet officer as part of a plot against another senator.

Or that time a few years after the Dominion War where the Romulan military backed a Reman coup which ended with a Warbird trying to irradiate the planet Earth…

It was an uneasy alliance, sure. Nonetheless, the sheer fact that a significant chunk of the Federation wanted to leave millions to die would have been enough to rupture the Federation no matter what decision was made.

Also loved the scene of Picard and Mrs Doyle being shocked to learn that the twin was not on Earth. The show is called Star Trek, not Local Village Trek.

I’m still on board with the show and looking forward to seeing how it all plays out. Not entirely convinced by the premise as laid out so far but they may yet tie it all together and things unfold. A blast to see Patrick Stewart in the role once again in any case.

I enjoyed the second episode but there was a hell of a lot of talking. Hopegully things start ramping up a bit over the next few episodes…

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Chris-S

More fun than the first, with some dodgy bits, but far less of them. The amount of technobabble in the apartment investigation was very silly and Picard’s fight with the actual Admiral was melodramatic to the max, as was all the secret Romulan, Starfleet, double cross, who can we trust, who’s really who bits.

We’re still getting more and more backstory added, surely we’ll have enough by some point soon and we can stop with the footnotes?

But it was more fun and it’s moving along faster.

Didn’t like that as much as the first, feels too excessive.

Talking of – someone get these motherfucking F-bombs out of my motherfucking Trek.

So, in episode 10 I get the feeling that Picard will return to the chateau to find Zhaban, Laris and Number One surrounded by a mountain of Romulan death squad corpses because they keep on coming.

Number One will save the day with his pet Synth-dragons.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

So, in episode 10 I get the feeling that Picard will return to the chateau to find Zhaban, Laris and Number One surrounded by a mountain of Romulan death squad corpses because they keep on coming.

Laris and Zhaban would have to have done all the killing. Stewart demanded Number One be added to the show because he wanted to promote pit bulls as sweet, non-dangerous dogs.

rory wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

So, in episode 10 I get the feeling that Picard will return to the chateau to find Zhaban, Laris and Number One surrounded by a mountain of Romulan death squad corpses because they keep on coming.

Laris and Zhaban would have to have done all the killing. Stewart demanded Number One be added to the show because he wanted to promote pit bulls as sweet, non-dangerous dogs.

He’s not going to savage them, he has a phaser that’s adapted so he can chew on a squishy bit and it zaps a bad guy.

I love the idea of Stewart demanding the pit bull.

“Patrick, we love you but we just don’t see …”

“LISTEN YOU PUSILLANIMOUS NINCOMPOOP! IF YOURE NOT PUTTING IN THE PITBULL IM NOT DOING THE FUCKING SHOW!”

That was one shitty super secret Romulan death squad. Reminded me more of the ninjalinos from PJ Masks.

Anonymous wrote:

I love the idea of Stewart demanding the pit bull.

“Patrick, we love you but we just don’t see …”

“LISTEN YOU PUSILLANIMOUS NINCOMPOOP! IF YOURE NOT PUTTING IN THE PITBULL IM NOT DOING THE FUCKING SHOW!”

saga wrote:

That was one shitty super secret Romulan death squad. Reminded me more of the ninjalinos from PJ Masks.

How did the Romulans ever get an empire?

to be fair, it wouldn’t be much of a show if it was “Star Trek: Laris, Number One and their sidekicks get killed by black ops troops in episode 3”

That’s not an excuse for a highly trained special forces team of do-or-die attackers to be a bit shit though.

If you need the adversaries to be a bit shit, set it up in the story that they’re NOT the Romulan version of SEAL Team 6, or set up that Picard has some really good home defence systems, rather than a pitbull dog, two retired Romulan spooks and some concealed weapons.

Are they the Romulan version of Seal Team 6?

SEAL Team 6 cannot confirm or deny their anti-robot missions.

SEAL Team 6 crashed their helicopter during the Osama raid. Even SEAL Team 6 isn’t SEAL Team 6.

If Will posted here he’d be explaining now that the SEALs don’t fly helicopters, they were piloted by a separate unit, 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. So they didn’t crash the chopper.

Most importantly though, they did get Osama.

The Romulans could learn a lot from them.

Osama Bin Laden wasn’t protected by a pair of Tal Shiar agents, and wasn’t the hero of the story.

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Chris-S

Also, SEAL Team 6 didn’t have to deal with slightly duff writing that made them into Keystone Cops.

SteveUK wrote:

Also, SEAL Team 6 didn’t have to deal with slightly duff writing that made them into Keystone Cops.

How exactly did the Romulans act like Keystone Cops?

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Chris-S

I’m not that bored Lorcan. Sorry. I’m sure twitter can help though.

Twitter sucks.

Jason wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I love the idea of Stewart demanding the pit bull.

“Patrick, we love you but we just don’t see …”

“LISTEN YOU PUSILLANIMOUS NINCOMPOOP! IF YOURE NOT PUTTING IN THE PITBULL IM NOT DOING THE FUCKING SHOW!”

God I hope Mr Worldwide cameos as a Vulcan or something

Just watched the third episode and, well, at least it’s getting going now. I was starting to get frustrated with the dragging pace.

This definitely seems to be one of those occasions where they’ve treated the series as the proverbial “ten hour movie”, which I think works better when you use the Netflix ‘dump’ model and make all the episodes available at once, but not so well for shows that are parcelled out weekly like this.

It does feel like the end of the third episode was the “end of act one”. Looking forward to it picking up a bit and being a bit more engaging.

I also watched Star Trek: Nemesis last night (as part of my ongoing ‘background reading’ for this show), and it fits right into that cliché description of just feeling like an extended episode of the TV show.

It felt like it was all building to something bigger than you actually get with that slightly limp climax, although I guess for longtime viewers Data’s sacrifice probably had more resonance.

(Plus, all that smug cosy stuff at the wedding at the beginning is a terrible way to open a movie.)

At least TNG got one decent movie with First Contact. 

Also, nice to see Tom Hardy doing yet another slightly silly voice to get in character.

Venom trying to kill Professor X in space would make for a decent movie, I reckon.

Picard-clone vs a Venom/Bane team-up.

being a bit more engaging.

I see what you did there

Yeah, not really feeling this – but it’s on Amazon so practically free.

I enjoyed that especially when Picard hesitated near the captain chair. Cue the music.

Captain Heroes Musketeer’s Orla Romulus accent was funny. Interesting that he’s reading Unamuno.

Engage! (I got that reference).

 

Anonymous wrote:

I love the idea of Stewart demanding the pit bull.

“Patrick, we love you but we just don’t see …”

“LISTEN YOU PUSILLANIMOUS NINCOMPOOP! IF YOURE NOT PUTTING IN THE PITBULL IM NOT DOING THE FUCKING SHOW!”

I love this ludicrous notion, best read with a hint of Aussie-PicardX

lorcan_nagle wrote:

being a bit more engaging.

I see what you did there

Every time this show cuts back to Romulan Jack Whitehall, his incest-horny sister and wosshername on the Borg Cube, I feel like throwing something at the TV. This would be much better if the show just went full bore into the futility of Picard’s Don Quixote phase.

Was 7 of 9’s ship the delta flyer?

[lorcan_nagle]

rory wrote:

Was 7 of 9’s ship the delta flyer?

I don’t think so.  It looked to be more elongated – it had what looked like some spars or an aft section pushing further out the back than the Flyer did, but it definitely did have a similar arrowhead shape to the front.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by lorcan_nagle.

This is one of those series that actually benefits from watching an episode a week because bingeing on this last four?  Would make for a rather depressing banquet of indigestion.

I’m also more than ready to move on from the “fuck you, Picard” plot strand.

There are some nice touches here, some neat aesthetics and concepts – although who the hell thought that was a Bird of Prey needs shooting.  But overall? It’s pretty hobbled by the other elements.

Be interesting to see if the Picard book helps the story here.

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Chris-S

How is it not a Bird of Prey?

In the parlance of new Sweary Trek – it’s fucking ugly. ;)

Although, if we’re being more serious – inbetween that post and viewing some others elsewhere I realise I generally link the term to Klingons, turns out they don’t have a monopoly on it.

The Klingons bird of prey came from an alliance with the romulans.

When’s Discovery back on?

Dave wrote:

Just watched the third episode and, well, at least it’s getting going now. I was starting to get frustrated with the dragging pace.

Yeah, I felt the same. Liked the third ep, and it feels like it’ll get going now.

rory wrote:

The Klingons bird of prey came from an alliance with the romulans.

Originally the adversaries in Star Trek III were going to be Romulans, and the Bird-of-Prey was designed and work on the model began by the time they decided to change to Klingons.  And then there was a line in the script about how Kruge stole a Romulan ship, but it got deleted.  And now the Klingons and Romulans both have Birds-of-prey and cloaking devices as a result.  The idea that they traded technology in an alliance is tied back into the TOS episode The Enterprise Incident, where the Romulans use a Klingon D7, and it’s called out in the script.

SteveUK wrote:

When’s Discovery back on?

No date given yet but presumably after Picard finishes.

Disappointed by this week’s episode. Just as it seemed like we were building some forward momentum at the end of last week, this episode killed all that.

Again, I think this wouldn’t be so bad if it had been released as a Netflix style ‘dump’ of all the episodes at once, as you could have raced through these first four episodes in an evening. But as a weekly show it’s really dragging.

[Jason]

lorcan_nagle wrote:

rory wrote:

The Klingons bird of prey came from an alliance with the romulans.

Originally the adversaries in Star Trek III were going to be Romulans, and the Bird-of-Prey was designed and work on the model began by the time they decided to change to Klingons.  And then there was a line in the script about how Kruge stole a Romulan ship, but it got deleted.  And now the Klingons and Romulans both have Birds-of-prey and cloaking devices as a result.  The idea that they traded technology in an alliance is tied back into the TOS episode The Enterprise Incident, where the Romulans use a Klingon D7, and it’s called out in the script.

And the real reason the Romulans were using Klingon ships in “The Enterprise Incident” is because they lost the model for Romulan Bird of Prey from “The Balance of Terror,” and used the newly-created Klingon D-7 ships in that episode instead. In a weird bit on irony, the Klingon D-7 made its debut in “The Enterprise Incident” being used by Romulans. (In the remastered episodes, they went back and put D-7 ships in the earlier Klingon-centered episodes like “Errand of Mercy” and “The Trouble with Tribbles.”

I was a bit surprised to learn that, despite sharing a name, the Klingon Bird of Prey design was originally meant to be a Romulan ship, as it has a similar design to the Klingon D-7. Just by looking at it, I never would have guessed it was originally meant to be a Klingon design.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Jason.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Jason. Reason: Keep transposing "Klingon" and "Romulan." I have no honor!

You’re all a bunch of nerds but this is nerd extreme. It hurts my spleen.

I’m enjoying old people slow trek just fine. Every time Picard moves it looks like he might snap a limb off, much rather he was talking than moving. Discovery will do the crazy stuff, this can just be slow, that’s ok.

 

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Sean Robinson

I don’t mind Picard being slow, but I have a problem with ‘Picard’ being slow.

Good episode this week. Focusing on just the Picard crew and not the Cube helped. It was obvious something was up with Agnes; I’m glad they didn’t wait to reveal it.

I didn’t realise the guy from the flashback at the start was a Voyager character, and when I looked him up on Memory Alpha, someone had added this useful update:

Ill never understand streaming.
This comes out for me tomorrow in Australia – why cant they just do a uniform global release? Its a tv show ffs

Yeah, I didn’t expect there to be comments on the new episode yet as it doesn’t show up on Amazon Prime until tomorrow.

(Not complaining about Paul’s post, I just didn’t realise it was available that far ahead of Amazon.)

A show about a sexy ex-cyborg travelling through the badlands of space, rescuing folk and shooting up baddies?  Sounds good to me.  Probably more appealing than the one about the old man meandering through space with the help.

I like the one about the old man.

All of this has happened before…

Thats mild relief because i had assumed the Australian Amazon release was delayed by a day for sone reason.

Ive now figured out it airs on CBS first, but given theres only one day of exclusivity before it goes to Amazon it seems kind of weird.

I’ve spent all morning half-convinced it’s Saturday because, for some reason, yesterday evening the latest Picard was on Amazon here.

Clearly there’s some kind of time dilation at play here.

The Picard finale was great anyway, can’t wait until you all get to see it.

Dave wrote:

Clearly there’s some kind of time dilation at play here.

The Picard finale was great anyway, can’t wait until you all get to see it.

Yeah, the ending of Season 2 was great.

I only found out by accident. For all I know I could’ve been peeking sneaks into Picard’s future every week. Except the first week. It wasn’t on the day after yesterday then.

What day is it now?

Anonymous wrote:

What day is it now?

What day would you like it to be?

saga wrote:

A show about a sexy ex-cyborg travelling through the badlands of space, rescuing folk and shooting up baddies?  Sounds good to me.  Probably more appealing than the one about the old man meandering through space with the help.

Spin-off!

The future has some crap CG advertising.

As fan films go, the show could be better, or worse. I’m sort of accepting what it is, which this week was like a Dr Who crossover with Star Trek. I wouldn’t have been surprised if Captain Jack Harkness had shown up halfway through.

So maybe it’s Torchwood, not Dr Who?

Todd wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What day is it now?

What day would you like it to be?

Tuesday.

I have a morning off on Tuesday unless that was last month’s Thorsday.

Whatever day is good for you?

Anonymous wrote:

Todd wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What day is it now?

What day would you like it to be?

Tuesday.

I have a morning off on Tuesday unless that was last month’s Thorsday.

Whatever day is good for you?

This is about making the day special for you.

Does not conpute.

Days are for making special for others.

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Uncle Retrospective

Well, the latest episode was the best episode yet, for me. Lots of fun, a proper story and not afraid to be a bit silly and hammy for the sake of a good yarn.

Although I did end up wishing the show was following the guest character rather than the regular cast, which maybe isn’t the best.

https://www.dailystartreknews.com/read/watch-boldly-go-the-star-trek-parody-musical-directed-by-bruce-maddox-actor-brian-brophy

Something occurred to me while watching the latest episode – is this the furthest into the future that Star Trek has been set? Were any of the other shows set after this period? (Forthcoming episodes of Discovery notwithstanding…)

Dave wrote:

Something occurred to me while watching the latest episode – is this the furthest into the future that Star Trek has been set? Were any of the other shows set after this period? (Forthcoming episodes of Discovery notwithstanding…)

The Calypso episode of Short Treks, Voyager had an episode that followed on from the one where they have to put up with Sarah Silverman that sees Seven spend time on a 29th Century starship, and Archer is shown the 26th Century Enterprise at one point.

Thanks. I was thinking more about regular settings rather than one-offs, but that’s interesting to know.

Presumably Discovery will be relatively free to push forward with the future setting next season. Assuming they go in the direction it seems.

Yeah, basically Picard is the furthest forward we’ve seen in the TNG era, and only Calypso is set after DISCO series 3, so both shows are forging ahead into unknown futures.

Dave wrote:

Well, the latest episode was the best episode yet, for me. Lots of fun, a proper story and not afraid to be a bit silly and hammy for the sake of a good yarn.

Yeah, I liked it well enough. Lots of developments, including those dispurbing last moments. The dialogues were a bit cringy again, conveying character emotion with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer… I am noticing that this happens more often (as far as my impression is concerned) in the episodes that Michael Chabon hasn’t (co-)written.

I was a bit unclear as to how famous and recognised Picard was these days. The silly disguise and accent was all quite thin, seemingly deliberately, but no-one seemed to recognise him until he took off his eyepatch and they started talking about the famous admiral Picard. Is this just a Lois Lane/Superman/glasses thing?

Well, duh. I mean, he didn’t just have an eyepatch, but also a fake scar. How the fuck is anyone supposed to see past that?

(So, yeah, Kent eyeglasses, I suppose.)

To be fair, if you were a criminal on Freecloud, and this old man with an eyepatch and an incredibly bad French accent showed up, would you assume he was one of the greatest living Starship captains?

If he looked just like him, then maybe.

I liked a lot of the Freecloud stuff though, like the targeted ads as they arrived.

That was Picard! :o

Amazing. Sire Stewart has such commanding range.

Best undercover performance since Indy and his tapestries.

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Christian

lorcan_nagle wrote:

To be fair, if you were a criminal on Freecloud, and this old man with an eyepatch and an incredibly bad French accent showed up, would you assume he was one of the greatest living Starship captains?

Maybe he does that from time to time, just for kicks, like Bill Murray.

“Nobody will ever believe you.”

If he hadn’t just been on the mass media shouting about the Federation betraying their promise to the Romulans, it would be easier to assume that a lot of people had forgotten him.

So it’s not a serious show, except when it is.

We’ll see what the resolution to the conspiracy behind the Mars attacks is? I assume that will be the showrunners making a point about present day politics and they’ll want that to be taken seriously,

SteveUK wrote:

Mars attacks

Now there’s a crossover opportunity.

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Bruce

Dave wrote:

SteveUK wrote:

Mars attacks

Now there’s a crossover opportunity.

Admiral Jones, report to the bridge.

Well to be fair, they didn’t seem to recognize him physically… it was only when someone called him by his name that people reacted, and it was smore like a “hey I’ve heard about Picard”. So that was not really an issue.

SteveUK wrote:

So it’s not a serious show, except when it is.

Which reminds me, it’s kind of weird how goofy this episode was a lot of the time, but it started with an eyeball being removed and the drill-bit torture and all that. I mean, hey, I love my gore and everything, but I don’t know if this series exactly needs this kind of scene? They’re going to lose their German PG-12 rating if they keep it up.

That seems to be a common theme for new Star Trek.

Discovery is similar I think. Often it can be goofy and silly but it also likes to throw in self-consciously ‘adult’ material from time to time in terms of language and violence.

I don’t think it’s needed either. It makes me feel as though the people behind the show think it’s needed to keep up with current TV trends, but it doesn’t sit comfortably with the tone of the rest of it.

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Christian

That’s not a Star Trek thing it’s pretty universal. Dark stories have lighter moments and vice versa.

It’s about how the stories do it though, and Discovery is much better paced and handles its shifts in tone better as well.

Picard does hand brake turns in tonal shifting.

I see where you are coming from, Dave.

As someone who is not familiar with trek, it does often feel like these shows are trying to copy an established precedent with the goofy/serious stuff.

I’m not sure if the other Star Trek shows did do that, but it certainly feels like these shows are trying to fit an established mold.

SteveUK wrote:

That’s not a Star Trek thing it’s pretty universal. Dark stories have lighter moments and vice versa.

I’m talking about new Star Trek vs old Star Trek though, and how the tone of the franchise in general has shifted with the new shows.

I’m not the biggest Star Trek fan in the world but I’ve seen enough to know that the older iterations of the franchise didn’t sprinkle fucks through their episodes or include moments of extreme gore. Discovery and Picard seem to treat this stuff like a badge of maturity. But it seems surplus to requirements to me.

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Chris-S

Ususually what would happen in 90’s Trek especially is that if they had a funny or silly moment in a serious episode, it’d be the cold open.  And it’d generally be the crew engaging in leisure activities or having fun before the crisis happens.  Like the Descent 2-parter opens with DAta playing cards with Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton before he’s called to beam down to the station the Borg have attacked; or Homefront (the DS9 story about the coup attempt on Earth) opens with Odo yelling at Dax about rearranging the furniture in Odo’s quarters by a few centimetres to annoy him when he’s shapeshifting before they get word a Changeling has blown up a conference on Earth.

Dave wrote:

I’ve seen enough to know that the older iterations of the franchise didn’t sprinkle fucks through their episodes or include moments of extreme gore. Discovery and Picard seem to treat this stuff like a badge of maturity. But it seems surplus to requirements to me.

This.

What the hell did I just watch?  I’ve enjoyed a lot of Beyer’s work but I have to wonder what she was thinking with that opening section.

As to what earlier Treks would and wouldn’t have done, I think the determining factor would be the target audience, which is what gore like this and the cursing changes rather drastically from its predecessors.  Old Trek was clearly going for a four-quadrant appeal, both Picard and Discovery aren’t doing that.  They want to cuss and have more blood, that’s fine, they can do that but there are consequences to the brand as a result.

Five episodes left to turn it around but I’m not sure I’ll bother, even for free.

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Chris-S, Dave

Dave wrote:

I’m not the biggest Star Trek fan in the world but I’ve seen enough to know that the older iterations of the franchise didn’t sprinkle fucks through their episodes or include moments of extreme gore.

 

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Bruce, Todd

Hell, there isn’t a huge gap between Icheb’s tortue and the montage of Enterprise crewmembers being Borgified in First Contact.

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Todd

was Icheb an actual character on Voyager?

rory wrote:

was Icheb an actual character on Voyager?

Yes, a recurring character in the final two seasons.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Icheb

A lot of folks probably tuned out by the time he showed up.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Hell, there isn’t a huge gap between Icheb’s tortue and the montage of Enterprise crewmembers being Borgified in First Contact.

First Contact was kind of an unusual film for Star Trek anyway though. It’s more gruesome moments fit the rest of the film because it was basically a zombie movie. And it managed nicely to balance the atmosphere of a horror film on the Enterprise and the Cube with the gentle humour of the scenes with the characters on Earth. It’s a pretty good example for doing this kind of thing well.

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Todd, Dave

If they had done that now infamous opener in the style of previous Trek, like say First Contact it would have been more suggestive rather explicit.  Drill heading towards an eye? Yes. Getting very close? Yes, but no further than that.  Still nasty sure but it’s working by suggestion rather than gore overload.

The bigger problem is how many people will be put off watching after this because, guess what, Trek isn’t perceived as a horror show.