Since this is starting up on Friday, March 19th, I figured we should have a dedicated thread to discuss it with spoilers.
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier Thread – SPOILERS INSIDE!!!
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Reactions to the first episode seem to be along the lines of “solid MCU fare.”
These two have me intrigued though:
Saw the first episode of FALCON AND THE WINTER SOLDIER. So far so good? Tough to tell after one episode, but I’m a huge Falcon fan so I’m glad this exists. Also there’s a character that shows up that is a definite, “Ohhhh, so that’s what this series is about,” moment.
— Mike Ryan (@mikeryan) March 12, 2021
I've watched the first episode of #TheFalconAndWinterSoldier & it's solid. Definitely more somber & dramatic at the start than I was expecting (which is a good thing), but also features the best Falcon action we've seen yet. Good mix of fights & story. I'm sold & hungry for more pic.twitter.com/5gZ9acB0Md
— Erik Davis (@ErikDavis) March 12, 2021
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Like the “does exactly what it says on the tin” approach to naming these shows.
I guess going with Captain America: Sidekicks would be stretching the branding a little too much.
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I guess going with Captain America: Sidekicks would be stretching the branding a little too much.
They could’ve gone with Agents of Cap, for a double dip =P
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I like the clip. I like the banter. I like the Falcon cgi. If they have the same guy who choreographed Winter Soldier and Civil War, they should be fine.
classic geek argument: whats the difference between wizards and sorcerers?
as for the name I would have gotten simpler : Sam & Bucky.
btw, how many of you had a friend call it Falcon and the (Winter) Snowman? its happened twice to me.
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for old school baseball/sitcom fans— Sam(malone) and Bucky(dent)
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btw, how many of you had a friend call it Falcon and the (Winter) Snowman? its happened twice to me.
Hell, I’ve been doing it! I have to think for a second a lot of times before I say it.
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I thought it was fine, but not exciting at all. It definitely gave off Netflix-style “first act of a long movie” vibes, especially with the main characters not meeting yet.
The big action scene was technically impressive enough, but I had no investment, and it felt very similar to other action scenes in The Mandalorian, Iron Man, etc.
I’m looking forward to getting more Wyatt Russell at least. Watch Lodge 49, people!
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Yeah, I thought it was ok but a slow start. For a setup episode there was a surprising amount of what feels like padding (watch an Avenger try to get a bank loan!). But Mackie and Stan are both very watchable, the opening action scene was decent enough (if a bit meaningless) and the final reveal is potentially interesting.
Hopefully it kicks up a gear next week and they have the two title characters get together, as their chemistry is one of the main aspects that had me interested in the show.
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It definitely feels like they want to deal with the fallout of Infinity War and Endgame, but not in a movie, so here we are. There’s nothing bad in this episode, but like you guys said, nothing special either. With Batroc showing up, and them reusing the Winter Soldier musical sting for Bucky’s flashback/nightmare it felt like an adjunct to The Winter Soldier as much as the later movies, and I’m there for that.
I do like that they’re adding layers of complexity to nominally supporting characters and especially making Bucky a vulnerable figure is very welcome in terms of characterisation. But at the same time the fight at the start leaned heavily into a MCU thing of having cartoony violence that has really horrible implications when you think about it for a few seconds – Age of Ultron was especially bad for this. Here Falcon kicks a guy out of a plane, and repeatedly damages helicopters to the point they slowly fall out of the sky and a few other similar moments where he’s basically killing people in a way that’s going to be pretty horrible for the person who’s about to die but the show forgets about them as soon as they’re out of frame.
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With Batroc showing up, and them reusing the Winter Soldier musical sting for Bucky’s flashback/nightmare it felt like an adjunct to The Winter Soldier as much as the later movies, and I’m there for that.
Yep, I definitely felt that too.
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I do like that they’re adding layers of complexity to nominally supporting characters and especially making Bucky a vulnerable figure is very welcome in terms of characterisation. But at the same time the fight at the start leaned heavily into a MCU thing of having cartoony violence that has really horrible implications when you think about it for a few seconds – Age of Ultron was especially bad for this. Here Falcon kicks a guy out of a plane, and repeatedly damages helicopters to the point they slowly fall out of the sky and a few other similar moments where he’s basically killing people in a way that’s going to be pretty horrible for the person who’s about to die but the show forgets about them as soon as they’re out of frame.
Agree on this too. We were almost laughing at how coldly he was causing so much carnage and how it was all skipped over.
I’m not saying we need an Austin Powers “family of a henchman” scene, but if you’re going to adopt a serious militaristic tone to these superheroes then it’s hard to just gloss over the fact that they’re quite casually killing a lot of people.
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It was okay. I’m just not that invested in either of the characters, and this didn’t do anything to change that. I wish they’d just sweep the whole “blip” thing under the carpet and forget about it once and for all, and I really do not care about Sam’s family business. Bucky is a little more sympathetic, but the writing isn’t up to much, so neither his meeting with the shrink or his path to redemption ring true so far.
Did I mis-hear the bit about the Flag-Smashers or is their goal really to unite the world by doing away with all borders? Wouldn’t that be a good thing..??
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Did I mis-hear the bit about the Flag-Smashers or is their goal really to unite the world by doing away with all borders? Wouldn’t that be a good thing..??
That’s the same as the comics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag-Smasher
The first Flag-Smasher was born Karl Morgenthau, the son of a wealthy Swiss banker-turned-diplomat, in Bern, Switzerland. He wanted to follow in his father’s footsteps and become a diplomat until his father was trampled to death in a riot at a Latverian embassy. He came to believe that humanity needed to do away with the concept of countries and nationalism that made people feel superior to those of different nationalities.
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Did I mis-hear the bit about the Flag-Smashers or is their goal really to unite the world by doing away with all borders? Wouldn’t that be a good thing..??
That was odd how that was dropped in and then not explained – just accepted by both as a terrible thing. Presumably we’ll find out more details as the show goes on.
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That was odd how that was dropped in and then not explained – just accepted by both as a terrible thing. Presumably we’ll find out more details as the show goes on.
He says something along those lines, then says, “so you can see why a lot of people are on board with it” presumably meaning that even he agrees it’s a good idea… in theory.
I’m assuming their actual motives are a little more nefarious, but for now… I’m Team Flag-Smasher!
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On the whole “blip” thing, I remember thinking when Endgame came out that it was going to kind of screw the MCU over because you now had a world that had been fundamentally altered by this five-year event that would have thrown things into chaos and complicated everything. And in all of the post-Endgame stories it does feel like more of a storytelling burden than an opportunity.
Hopefully now that it’s been sufficiently dealt with in Spidey, Wandavision and here the future MCU projects won’t feel the need to keep acknowledging it. At this point it’s best just ignored I think.
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Wyatt Russell does not have a good chin for that Cap helmet.
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It was ok… really first like the first chunk of a movie which is great because of the production values, but not good in terms of pacing. I get why Wandavision was a series, the episodic nature played a huge meta-part in the story… here? it just seems like they’re forcing us to watch a movie in chunks for some reason…
Wyatt Russell does not have a good chin for that Cap helmet.
He doesn’t have anything going on for him… They didn’t even give him a cool suit, which is very disappointing. I kinda wish they had gotten someone like John Cena… and not, I’m not making a meme.
for the most part all Steve Epting and I have gotten for creating the Winter Soldier and his storyline is a “thanks” here or there, and over the years that’s become harder and harder to live with.
How unsurprising… apparently Satrlin got more money for KGBeast appearing in BvS than he did for all of his MCU characters… now, I don’t know if that changed with IW and Endgame, but something tells me “no”.
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I enjoyed the first episode. There’s a lot to unpack with the two lead characters. The Captain America movies got so crowded after Winter Soldier that there really wasn’t much scope to explore them there, so plenty of material to work with in these six hours or so.
Who wants to guess when the boat gets destroyed? I’ll go with episode four.
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I enjoyed it for what it was. I appreciated that they are delving into the characters and trying to give them some depth.
While WandaVision was fun and innovative, it was still a MCU product. They will only go so far in depth and range. Superficially, Marvel TV series may do some different and experimental things that you won’t see in the movies but ultimately, they will stay at the same level as their cinematic kin. I am not expecting an series to be like Legion in terms of depth or boundary-pushing. Legion was a true outlier and the shows being on Disney+ and being tied to the movies limit how far they can go.
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Enjoyed that enough.
Although, for all it is an impressive opening sequence, the carnage is up there with John Wick! But this could be a new version of the ‘no body’ rule – if you see none, no one died.
It’s also clear that they want to make each series distinctive, while each fits into a larger picture. Good casting again too – Like that they nabbed the actress that plays Billings in Bosch as Bucky’s shrink.
The end scenes set up some very interesting territory too.
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Wait, isn’t Falcon a soldier? It didn’t shock me he was killing, even though yeah, I did notice the body count, but only in the sense that I was aware it was a Disney show. But it’s a show about 2 soldiers and a whole bunch of terrorists, so…
Anyhow, I didn’t LOVE it, but I liked it… what I loved is the focus on those 2 characters, and particularly on the Falcon. His new costume is really cool (even though I’m really over the whole MCU militaristic aesthetic, at least it fits him). I still don’t like Bucky’s new arm… his flashback only reinforced how much better the previous design is.
Oh and the lenght of this episode felt just about right, not too short and not too long… it was starting to drag out a bit but they closed it before I went “boriiing”.
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As to the show, it was entertaining enough. Winter Soldier’s therapy and redemption story is interesting, Falcon’s fishing and finance one less so.
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Fishing and finance… FF… Fantastic Four appearance confirmed!
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DC have always been better with this stuff. Creators complain the sums are low but they do pay out for other media appearances of characters they’ve created. Marvel just give ‘thanks’, they also don’t pay anything for foreign editions of any of their comics so if a book sells half a million in say a Spanish translation the writer and artist don’t get a penny. Other publishers do give a royalty.
I do detect a certain amount of Disney thinking in this. I suspect that any formal acknowledgement/royalty beyond a “thanks” opens a door that their lawyers would probably rather not open.
Like Brubaker says, that’s the deal with Work For Hire and you have to accept that, even if at the time he created the Winter Soldier it was difficult to imagine the character becoming a household name with his own TV series.
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I mean, listen, if the shows goes as it seems it will, it’ll basically end up being the “snyder cut” of a Falcon & WS movie that could’ve been… think about it.
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It also seems from what I’ve read that Disney is not going to contest ‘Steamboat Willy’ going public domain in the next two years or Warners with Action Comics #1 (but there’s still time).
They won’t contest it because they know they’d lose this time. Unlike previous times they’ve managed to get copyright extended, there’s now a well organised movement against copyright extension, which even has the backing of organisations like the MPAA.
That’s moot though because Marvel Studios wasn’t even compensating creators before they were owned by Disney.
There have been a few exceptions though, most notably Bill Mantlo, creator of Rocket Raccoon. He requires full time care after he was hit by a car in 1992, and after Guardians proved to be a success, his brother negotiated a “very nice compensation package” with Marvel Studios which enabled him to receive care in his home rather than an institution.
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Do I really need to spell it out?
The Snyder Cut is a new four-hour edit of a superhero movie from a few years ago that has debuted on a streaming service. Falcon and Winter Soldier is a brand new 45-minute weekly superhero TV series that has debuted on a streaming service.
So they’re both about superheroes and have debuted on a streaming service, but beyond that I don’t see a huge similarity.
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Both of them do not feature Steve Guttenberg. Coincidence?
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I dunno, as far back as Daredevil on Netflix people were talking about it being a “13 hour movie” or whatever. I think that’s more just a function of how this stuff is delivered and consumed these days. I don’t see any of these recent releases as really changing the game in a fundamental way, other than maybe the production values on the Disney+ series.
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Disney+ says that The Falcon and The Winter Soldier ranks as the most watched series premiere ever for the streaming service during its opening weekend, Friday, March 19 – Sunday, March 22, and the most watched title overall for the same time period on a global basis, including in Disney+ Hotstar markets. No viewership numbers were provided whatsoever.
Disney+ did not provide any degree of viewers for Falcon and the Winter Soldier specifically in regards to WandaVision‘s weekend premiere or The Mandalorian‘s season 1 or 2’s weekend premieres. The streaming service only mentioned that Falcon, WandaVision and season 2 of Mandalorian are the streaming service’s top three most watched weekend premieres.
SambaTV however reports that 1.7 million households tuned into Falcon and the Winter Soldier last weekend besting the 1.6M who tuned into WandaVision‘s opening weekend. SambaTV collects data from terrestrial TVs.
Disney’s latest Marvel TV show had 759k US HHs tune in on Friday, beating WandaVision‘s premiere day tune in (655k households on Friday, Jan. 15), but not quite the 1.0M US HHs that watched The Mandalorian‘s Season 2 premiere on the first day.
Marvel Studios’ The Falcon and The Winter Soldier stars Anthony Mackie as Sam Wilson aka The Falcon, and Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes aka The Winter Soldier in a post Avengers: Endgame world after The Blip. With Captain America retired, the world is in need of new one, however The Falcon finds the weight of the shield to be too heavy. However, unbeknown to him, a new Captain America was selected. Directed by Kari Skogland with Malcolm Spellman serving as head writer, the six-episode series also stars Daniel Brühl as Zemo, Emily VanCamp as Sharon Carter, and Wyatt Russell as John Walker. The series dropped on Friday and for a six-episode run.More Marvel series will be dropping on Disney+: There is Loki on June 11 with Hawkeye and Ms. Marvel later this year.
Separately, SambaTV reports 1.8M US households whowatched at least 5 minutes of Zack Snyder’s Justice League on HBO Max over the weekend. Diversity breakdown for households were Black (+17%), Hispanic (+20%), and Asian (+18%) people in them over-indexed. Of the 25 largest markets, the most over-indexing were San Francisco (+67%), Sacramento (+33%), and Los Angeles (+32%).
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reports 1.8M US households whowatched at least 5 minutes of
That’s like a whole D+ show episode without the credits, no? =P
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Falcon and the Winter Soldier’ Head Writer Promises a Very Different Sharon Carter
She hasn’t been the same since she shared that kiss with Steve Rogers…
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She hasn’t been the same since she shared that kiss with Steve Rogers…
… and got dumped in favor of her aunt. You missed half of it =P
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That was definitely better. Some of the stuff still didn’t quite work (I’m not sure what the point of the couples therapy scene was, in continuity), but it did a good job of kicking off the plot and bringing in most of the main players.
The digressions worked better than in the first episode too, like the Isaiah Bradley scene. I’m definitely more optimistic about the show than I was after the first episode.
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under the blip people were provided for better than they were before?
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Well, again it was okay but meh at the same time. I did like that they brought Isaiah in, and who I’m assuming is gonna be Patriot, I hope they’ll explore that whole thing a lot further… I had a feeling they would introduce them here, I didn’t expect it so soon though.
Walker should avoid wearing the helmet. I like the actor though, I really wish they’d given him a better costume… I suppose they will IF he makes it to the end of the show and becomes USAgent…
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under the blip people were provided for better than they were before?
Well like I said, it’s reductive and that’s partially because Thanos was wrong, but at least it’s trying.
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Enjoyed the second ep, it built well on the first and flowed nicely.
At the start, during the interview with Walker, all I could think of was Homelander. Later in the episode he recovered from that.
The truck fight was a good action sequence. The counselling scene was funny, more so if you also know Raynor as Billings, who’s used to dealing with Bosch.
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I kinda wish they’d dressed “Battlestar” as Bucky first just to piss Bucky off even more =P
Other than that, I was wondering… so at some point Falcon tells Walker they’re “free agents” so they have more flexibility or something… does that mean the Sokovia accords got recinded then? I thought the whole point of that was to not have “free agent” superheroes and have them be accountable, much like Walker is…
Also, I’m guessing Walker and Hoskins are getting some of that SS juice at some point, probably drving Walker a bit crazy and over-excited.
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The show is perfectly enjoyable and the big action scenes are fun, yet the best parts by far are the character driven scenes like meeting Isaiah or Sam and Bucky’s therapy session. The whole deal with the Flag Smashers doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense so far. Maybe they’ll tidy that up next week.
One thing I was trying to figure out is who exactly are the Avengers at this point? Does the team exist at all?
Carol and Fury are off in space doing space things. Thor and the Guardians too. Spider-Man is presumably on the run. Wanda is dealing with her issues with Strange. Vision is floating around aimlessly. Black Panther will be doing Wakanda things. That leaves Hulk, Hawkeye, Ant-Man and Wasp as the potential line up, I think? Falcon is certainly not bothered about the whole initiative, it would appear.
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One thing I was trying to figure out is who exactly are the Avengers at this point?
By this point they’re probably down to Korg, Ned Leeds, Happy Hogan and Luis from Ant-Man.
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“A good question….for another time.”
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Really like this show. The action is absolutely amazing for a TV thing, the Winter Soldier’s trauma is very convincing and so is Falcon’s private troubles (even though, yeah, he really should have some Stark or military money…). New Cap is also a good character, and I like that they actually made him more likeable than either of the two main guys.
There’s a lot of plot stuff that is only semi-convincing – is that Torres guy secretly working with Falcon instead of, like, with his own superiors? Why aren’t they doing all of this shit officially (and, like, get paid for it, Falcon?)? And the same goes for the tension between Falcon, WS, and the new Cap. It’d make all the sense in the world for all of these guys to work together, but we’re not at that point of the plot yet, so let’s give them huge egos so that they won’t do that, even if they don’t have those egos when they’re not talking to each other.
It’s fine, though, I don’t mind any of that. Dialogues are good, action is great, intrigue is okay (I like that even though the Flag Smashers’ motivation seems a bit bullshit, they’re at least playing them seriously and making them people who really believe in their goals and are ready to sacrifice themselves for them – not just, like, evil dudes). Very much looking forward to the next episodes.
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Oh, and I thought that Isaiah scene and the confrontation with the cops afterwards were very good. Maybe they bit off a bit too much with these themes for what the series is, but we will see.
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There’s a lot of plot stuff that is only semi-convincing – is that Torres guy secretly working with Falcon instead of, like, with his own superiors? Why aren’t they doing all of this shit officially (and, like, get paid for it, Falcon?)? And the same goes for the tension between Falcon, WS, and the new Cap. It’d make all the sense in the world for all of these guys to work together, but we’re not at that point of the plot yet, so let’s give them huge egos so that they won’t do that, even if they don’t have those egos when they’re not talking to each other.
The whole “we’re independent operators” thing doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny – like if that’s the case why is Falcon working with the military at all? Who’s flying him across the world in C-130s? And if he’s working as some sort of PMC in a bird costume, why isn’t he getting paid?
But yeah, it’s really just there to serve the plot and stop Falcon and Bucky from teaming up with Walker at this point in the story.
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But yeah, it’s really just there to serve the plot and stop Falcon and Bucky from teaming up with Walker at this point in the story.
Also because Disney/Fiege realized it would be crazy to call it The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and the new Captain America and Battlestar…Oh Yeah, and Sharon Carter.
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I only recently realised Nu-Cap is Kurt Russell’s son.
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I only recently realised Nu-Cap is Kurt Russell’s son.
Ah. Well that makes a lot of sense.
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Star-Lord?
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Oof, not a fan of this one at all. The Zemo breakout/team-up stuff was ridiculously rushed, and didn’t make a lick of sense. The Madripoor stuff was very generic, and seeing them go “undercover” wasn’t nearly as fun as the show seemed to think it was.
I’m much more interested in the John Walker side of the show, and there was barely any of that. I don’t care about The Power Broker, and every time we met a new character who wasn’t The Power Broker I grew less interested.
The show is already overstuffed, and I don’t see any way adding in Ayo from Black Panther halfway through is going to improve that. She’s not a character I care about, even in that movie, but I guess she’s the one name character whose actor they could get.
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Three episodes in and while I like how they’re adapting the elements they’re using into the MCU – moving Isaiah Washington into the 50s for instance – it’s still not making for a particularly arresting show. The first episode was really slow, the second not much faster and now this one was doing too much and yet not enough with Walker.
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I liked the Madripoor stuff. From the CG cityscape to the Mos Eisly via Bladerunner underworld, I thought it was nicely realised.
The show’s a fricking mess though.
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Yup… he did… then he dumped her for her aunt…
Funny how they completely sidestepped that awkward subject…
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Granted, said aunt looks like this:
But still, dick move, Rogers.
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Hey man, I’m not blaming him… but yeah, dick move, Rogers indeed =P
Also, they keep talking about how they stole the shield and all that, I know they’re refering to the very brief moment is CW where Cap & Bucky get arrested (and BP doesn’t ’cause diplomatic inmunity bitches!!!) and “they” seize the shield… fine, but 1) Surely the shield legally belonged to someone, and I’m thinking either Rogers or Stark, but 2) if it belonged to the US gvmt, then they should’ve also arrested Tony ’cause he totally took it at the end of CW?
I don’t know, that whole plot point is very shaky… I wish they’d stop mentioning it, or just clarify the issue… but at any rate, it’s a weak excuse to have Sharon basically made into a pariah, you’d think Fury or basically anyone else would’ve already secured a pardon for her… I didn’t really buy that whole thing.
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The ending with Sharon getting into the car with the bodyguard and her demeanor completely changing makes it seem like there’s more going on with her than she’s letting on. I hope she doesn’t turn out to be The Power Broker or something stupid like that.
Also, is she the one who killed Selby, and are we supposed to know that? I assumed it was her when I first watched, but I just rewatched the sequence and am now confused. It’s an oddly edited scene, where Selby is killed by a gunshot through a window, then there’s a fight and a chase, and then Sharon shows up with a gun. She seems to blame them for Selby being dead though, so I guess she either didn’t do it, and that’s another mystery, or she did it but we’re not supposed to think that?
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I enjoyed 3. I liked the slow burn with Walker. One of the funniest lines in the world to me is “DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?” smh. He is starting to believe his press clippings. I loved the appearance of Okoye. Of course Wakanda is going to be concerned with Zemo(would get a big laugh if we see adhesive X not that he is wearing the purple hat). I did not think it was overstuffed. The princess Bar sign was a god easter egg. I wish Tyger Tyger showed up or maybe that was her with Sharon at the car. I think people are blowing out of proportion the relationship of Cap and Sharon in MCU. I believe it is nothing like the comics situation. I wonder if Cap is now her creepy old Uncle Steve. Emily van Camp is doing a great job with her portrayal. Sharon is such a bad ass.
I don’t care about The Power Broker, and every time we met a new character who wasn’t The Power Broker I grew less interested.
You know who he is in the comics, right, Paul? I like that they haven’t revealed him yet. its kinda like Agnes/Agatha from Wandavision. IS he going to be like the comics version or not.
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As with most Marvel projects, I’m not thinking too hard on the series and am enjoying it. It, like WandaVision, is a solid B- series. I think I’d also give that rating to most of the movies. It’s fun and entertaining but I doubt I’d watch it again.
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I’m not thinking too hard on the series and am enjoying it.
This is my approach to most films and series of this type (superhero/action/fantasy); as long as lack of logic is not waved in my face too obviously, I just sit back and let myself be entertained. Does the Sharon Carter backstory stand up to scrutiny? Probably not, but for the purpose of this current storyline I’m fine with that.
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Zemo made an offhand remark about a fashion-forward black man being thought of as a pimp in the States. I never realised that Sam Wilson actually did have a history as a pimp in his original comics origin story.
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I never realised that Sam Wilson actually did have a history as a pimp in his original comics origin story.
It was actually a retcon by Steve Englehart during his Cap run. Thankfully it was later re-retconned out of Sam’s past. I like a lot of Englehart stuff, but that was not his finest hour.
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https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Power_Broker,_Inc._(Earth-616)
Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation
Power Broker was also responsible for the strength augmentation of the U.S. Agent and Battlestar in the comics.
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Seems like Zemo dancing is a meme now.
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They released the Zemo Cut!
🕺🕺🕺 pic.twitter.com/iX6DlrY1ts
— Disney+ (@disneyplus) April 8, 2021
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