Star Trek Thread

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This is a thread to talk about Star Trek

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SteveUK wrote:

If another filmmaker does take over the project they’ll want to stamp their imprint on it, and the script will be heavily rewritten, or even dropped entirely.

See: The Star Wars sequel trilogy.

Or Ant-Man.

Wasn’t that more a case of the original director leaving because Marvel wouldn’t let him put his imprint on it?

I think Marvel wanted his imprint on it, they just wanted to push a load of other stuff into it too, which he didn’t want.

The end result felt like someone had taken an Edgar Wright film and knocked all the edges off. Which I think is what would risk happening with a non-Tarantino version of Tarantino’s Star Trek.

The one that always tickles me with Ant-Man is the most Edgar Wright feeling bit – Louis’ stories – which are very like Shaun’s plans to get to the pub in Shaun of the Dead, were added after he left by Peyton Reed.

The train bit was Wright, surely?

I don’t know. I only remember thinking the Louis bits were very Wright and then reading later he had nothing to do with them. Overall I don’t know how much was kept in, he still has a screenplay credit so I’d assume a decent amount.

The process to sort out who did what is very serious because it’s part of calculating who gets a share of any money the films makes (that the studio can’t hide with Hollywood accounting). The Writers Guild administrates the paying of residuals and they also award the writing credits, in consultation with everyone involved. It’s often a contentious process and writers hire lawyers and other consultants to help them prove they should get the credit, and the money.

Wright and Cornish got a “story by” credit, so they built the skeleton but the screenplay credit itself went Paul Rudd and Adam McKay, so they rewrote enough for it to be considered their “voice” in the film itself.

The director has commented a little about it, on Quora of all places;

https://www.quora.com/What-aspects-of-the-Ant-Man-screenplay-were-written-by-Paul-Rudd

Got this for xmas. Just away to start on it now. Recognise the author’s name (and have read and enjoyed some of his work in the past) and apparently the stories are adaptations of episodes of the animated series. Anyone else read these? Are they enjoyable enough or is it going to be a bit of a slog?

They’re adaptations of 9 episodes of TAS.  But there’s some of the best ones in there – Yesteryear is in Log One, and The Survivor is in Log Two. Plus, The Infinite Vulcan is included, which was originally written by Walter Koenig and is weeeeeeeird.

I’ve not read them, but Foster is a decent if old-fashioned writer

I read a lot of them as a kid and they were as much Star Trek to me as the TV show and then the movies.

But I haven’t read any in ages so I can’t comment on their quality to an adult reader.

Foster is a good writer though. Prolific too. I expect you’ll have a good time with the book.

I’ve been reading a bunch of old scifi (40s – 70s) over the past few months (Foster included) so I’m quite happy enough with “old fashioned”.

Alan Dean Foster ghost-wrote the original Star Wars novelization (credited to George Lucas as writer), then wrote a sequel called Splinter of the Mind’s Eye under his own name. I owned both paperbacks but have no idea where they are now…

I’ve been reading a bunch of old scifi (40s – 70s) over the past few months (Foster included) so I’m quite happy enough with “old fashioned”.

This post needs more likes

 

njerry wrote:

Alan Dean Foster ghost-wrote the original Star Wars novelization (credited to George Lucas as writer), then wrote a sequel called Splinter of the Mind’s Eye under his own name.

The (German) copy I had of the Star Wars novel was credited to Foster. I loved that novel. It also had quite a few bits that Lucas put into the later editions of the movies; the scene with Jabba in the first one, for example. And Biggs was always bigger to me than he was in the movie, for the scenes that were in the novel.

I also remember reading one of Foster’s Alien novelisations.

Yeah they wrote the novelisation and the comic based on the screenplay (with just stills for visual reference for the comic).

The Jabba scene was always in the Marvel adaptation too, looking like a walrus.

 

 

 

 

lorcan_nagle wrote:

But there’s some of the best ones in there – Yesteryear is in Log One

I just read this. It was an absolute belter!

Children of Mars was not what I was expecting at all.  It was really good, and a welcome, if very tightly focused  look at civilians in the Federation.  The Bowie cover was well-placed, and quite frankly, I have a lot more questions about Picard now than I did seeing the trailers.

But I guess there’s a bit more insight into that Borg Cube, and why Hugh is in the show now.

Yeah, there are some small details in Children of Mars hinting at a big picture for Picard, to tie a lot of the different plot strands we have glimpsed on trailers.

Ah, so it’s a Short Trek – who has it for the UK? Amazon?

I just caught up on the Short Treks.

‘Ephraim and Dot’ is a silly animated short about a Tardigrade and a guard/engineer robot on the Enterprise. It had some fun side bits, referencing TOS episodes, but it’s not a Pixar short, not in technical quality (pretty much impossible) or storytelling. Light and totally disposable.

‘The Girl Who Made the Stars’ wants to be a far more serious animated story; an inspirational tale, an inspirational legend in fact, but it’s not really smart enough. It never feels like a real legend, instead it does feel like a story that a dad is making up, on the spot, for his daughter. That might be enough for a lot of viewers, but I felt let down.

‘Children of Mars’… really, really, really wants to be sooooooooo meaningful and tries super hard with the music over montages that show us the lives of two Federation schoolgirls who… well I wont give it away. No heart string escapes an attempted tug.

It’s connected to the Picard series and I hope the series is much better judged. This was about as subtle as an alien attack on a Federation base.

Ben wrote:

Ah, so it’s a Short Trek – who has it for the UK? Amazon?

your guess is as good as anyone’s.  Last year we didn’t get the Short Treks until a day or two before Series 2 dropped

Short Treks “season” 1 was on Netflix tagged on after all the trailers at the bottom of the episode listings. Theres no sign of the latest bunch though (I just checked this evening).

So none of these are available officially in the UK yet? That’s a shame.

Definitely seems to be the case. Frustrating as i was keen to watch them before Picard aired on Prime.

Dave wrote:

So none of these are available officially in the UK yet? That’s a shame.

Yeah, and there’s been no indication of how and where they’re going to show up.  Like Bruce said, the first four Short Treks just appeared on Netflix a day or two before series 2 of DISCO started.  But every one of those episodes were directly related to DISCO. So, will Children of Mars be packaged in with Picard while the rest are with DISCO?

I wouldn’t be surprised if they put them under their own entry eventually in Netflix, it is what they did in Amazon with Season 2 because they went beyond Discovery:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B07YR536M9/ref=atv_dp

Also, cover novels for the rest of the shorts:

With the final chapter of the latest batch of Star Trek: #ShortTreks ending, a new story is just beginning. Stream "Children of Mars" now on @CBSAllAccess. pic.twitter.com/AGXqvw2WqS

— Star Trek on CBS All Access (@startrekcbs) January 10, 2020

Enjoy this timeless story with the whole family. Stream Star Trek: #ShortTreks "The Girl Who Made The Stars" now on @CBSAllAccess. pic.twitter.com/fqiQHr8knS

— Star Trek on CBS All Access (@startrekcbs) December 14, 2019

Dot needs to use every trick in the book to keep Ephraim off the Enterprise. Stream Star Trek: #ShortTreks "Ephraim and Dot" now on @CBSAllAccess. pic.twitter.com/YBnaFD1VBk

— Star Trek on CBS All Access (@startrekcbs) December 13, 2019

‘Star Trek: Picard’ Officially Renewed For Season 2 By CBS All Access – TCA

That was already announced last month, wasn’t it?

Yes it was.

…but people were busy with the holidays and all, so CBS decided to announce it again when we’re not so distracted.

2 more live-action Trek shows
.
Forget the speculation, one of those shows HAS to be Pike/Spock/Number One series.

I’m totally down for Pike’s Enterprise.  But equally, something in the TNG era or something entirely new would be cool too.

1. An untitled cooking show with Neelix. It’s a competition like Chopped that involves alien cuisine from all over the galaxy. “In this round’s baskets:  Regulan Blood Worms, Vulcan semolina, and Denebian Turd Flowers.”

2. “The Barclay Files” — each episode Reginald Barclay is abandoned on an alien planet, and put in a situation that will terrify him and cause him to freak out.

Isn’t that every situation ?

Jason wrote:

2. “The Barclay Files” — each episode Reginald Barclay is abandoned on an alien planet, and put in a situation that will terrify him and cause him to freak out.

I’d be down with a show that was just about Neelix getting punched in the face over and over again. Hell, I’d even buy some VR kit for that one.

I am finally watching Discovery now that it’s on a proper channel I don’t have to pay extra for. (I am aware that we have a dedicated thread but I’m not going in there as I’m probably several seasons behind.)

So, short review after watching the first two episodes: it’s not actually very good.

Longer review: My main problem is that I have no feeling for any of the characters. The only one remotely interesting so far is Cowardly Bridge Alien. The two lead characters are not really likeable, nor even entertainingly dislikeable. They are just bland. The main antagonists seem to think they can get by on overwrought melodrama without having any actual substance behind it, so you’re basically just waiting for them to die and hoping that their deaths will at least be glorious (they’re not). The plotting is generally pretty muddled. My favourite (I’m being sarcastic) bit was when one character says “We mustn’t kill him, it will create a martyr” and then 20 seconds later shoots to kill. I’m honestly not surprised she got court martialled. Let’s hope she stays in jail and gives Cowardly Bridge Alien his shot at command because I think that would really levitate the series and make it something different. I’ll watch at least one more episode to see if that happens.

In conclusion: the best thing about this series is that the bridge makes all the right noises.

The first three episodes are an almost-complete arc on their own, and a lot of the people who has similar issues to yours with the first two enjoyed episode 3.

Also, this is the most serialised trek to date, so a lot of what you didn’t like is addressed over the course of series 1. Almost as if character flaws are explored.

 

Also also, Burnham straight-up murdered T’Kuvma at the end of episode 2. It’s hard to notice but she actively switches her phaser from stun to kill before shooting him. It’s never explicitly mentioned but when you realise it you can see how it colours her actions moving on.

 

Also also also, if you find you don’t enjoy series 1, give series 2 a shot anyway. It’s much more of what I think you want out of trek

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Also also, Burnham straight-up murdered T’Kuvma at the end of episode 2. It’s hard to notice but she actively switches her phaser from stun to kill before shooting him.

I didn’t notice that detail, but it’s really just enough to know that she had the option to stun and didn’t take it. From what we know of her background it’s entirely understandable and “in character”, but that doesn’t excuse any of her actions, and I’m glad they didn’t cop out and did follow through with the logical consequences (court martial). Except I’m pretty sure she will continue to be the main character rather than rotting in a Federation military prison, which would be disappointing. Though if they can pull off a redemption arc that leaves me truely believing she should command a star ship after that, I will be very impressed with the writers.

I forgot to say: the other bit I really liked was her logical argument with the computer for why she should be let out of the brig. That was also nice writing.

It’s fiction so not everything is addressed, but it’s working hard to be a show about consequences.

The melodrama doesn’t diminish though.

DavidM wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Also also, Burnham straight-up murdered T’Kuvma at the end of episode 2. It’s hard to notice but she actively switches her phaser from stun to kill before shooting him.

I didn’t notice that detail, but it’s really just enough to know that she had the option to stun and didn’t take it. From what we know of her background it’s entirely understandable and “in character”, but that doesn’t excuse any of her actions, and I’m glad they didn’t cop out and did follow through with the logical consequences (court martial). Except I’m pretty sure she will continue to be the main character rather than rotting in a Federation military prison, which would be disappointing. Though if they can pull off a redemption arc that leaves me truely believing she should command a star ship after that, I will be very impressed with the writers.

I forgot to say: the other bit I really liked was her logical argument with the computer for why she should be let out of the brig. That was also nice writing.

If nothing else, she doesn’t command a Starship.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Also also also, if you find you don’t enjoy series 1, give series 2 a shot anyway. It’s much more of what I think you want out of trek

Just to give a contrasting opinion, I kinda doubt it. Season 2 has just as much muddled plotting and bad writing as season 1, and even more ridiculously over-the-top melodrama. I think I enjoyed season 1 more, if only for Captain Lorca.

I probably won’t manage to stay away from season 3, but I do know I better should. It’s a pretty disappointing series overall.

Good, long interview with Michael Chabon about Picard:

‘I Heard Patrick’s Voice in My Head’: Michael Chabon on Making ‘Picard’ and Being a Fanboy

Was at the premier of Picard on Wednesday. Here’s the write up for Starburst Magazine (I took the photos)

 

https://www.starburstmagazine.com/features/star-trek-picard-red-carpet-report?fbclid=IwAR2DdCvxNHuG7hW041ISCjrb4nM23bzK-BHnm4DR0iOsnAJhpmKJ9fDmRao

 

I look forward to seeing eps 2 and 3 tonight :D

 

Am under embargo till Thursday to say what I think about it. I just need to rub it in somewhere that I’ve seen it.

You had five implants fitted didn’t you?

Maybe……

Im not much of a Star Trek fan but I noticed last night that Picard will stream on Amazon Prime in Australia so I’ll probably check it out, especially of it reviews well.

II more or less liked Discovery but thought it was a bit convoluted at times.

Yeah, I’m in a similar boat. A fairly casual Star Trek viewer, I’ve seen the TNG movies but very little of the TV show. But since I have Amazon Prime I might as well give it a go. I enjoyed Discovery despite not really having any expectations or experience with the franchise.

I have just discovered that Picard’s Number One is played by a very good boy called De Niro.

Ben wrote:

You had five implants fitted didn’t you?

There were four implants.

Is it known how Picard is being released?  All in one go or ep per week?

I think it’s not in one go

No, it’s weekly. Ten episodes.

Thanks, might blitz this at the end of March then, like I did the Discovery series.

It may burn a lot to have to wait 4 weeks for the next new episode.

 

Yup. Still being smug.

Five weeks.

(Yes, I am keeping this joke going.)

rory wrote:

I love the dog’s name

 

Turns out today would have been Deforest Kelley’s 100th birthday.

Third episode of Discovery was an improvement. I’m glad they didn’t bring in the plot reversals I was expecting. And if this is what is going to settle down to be the regular cast, then they are already better defined than the cast in the previous episodes, which I now understand why they didn’t bother spending any time on, and I’m reasonably happy with them. (I’m assuming the core cast is going to be Burnham, suspiciously-acting-Captain, alien-first-officer, ditzy-room-mate, and abrasive-engineer, which is a decent size for a cast, not too bloated the way later Star Trek series ensembles were).

Whether you mean to or not, you’re fishing for spoilers there.

If you’re going to tell me “Wrong! Burnham dies next episode” I’d be ok with that

I’ve decided to give ST Voyager a go.

I’ve never watched more than an odd episode here and there and wasn’t sure what to expect. I was hoping for “early DS9” from it but I’m getting “early TNG” from it instead.

I’ve watched the first season and part of the second. I’m mostly enjoying it and will continue to watch it but what am I to expect in terms of quality? More of the same? Marginally better? Get worse than the space Irish TNG episode?

Also, does Nelix get thrown out of an airlock anytime soon as he is getting right on my tits.

Yeah, it’s basically TNG lite for the whole run.  There are a few good moments scattered around, but it’s incredibly average.

Caveat: I gave up on the show in series 5 and have only watched a handful of episodes after that.

I’m impressed that you got to season five :D

“Incredibly average” is a very accurate description of the ones I bothered watching.

DavidM wrote:

I’m impressed that you got to season five :D

“Incredibly average” is a very accurate description of the ones I bothered watching.

I was young and stupid when Voyager was airing.

Now I’m middle-aged and stupid, and would rather spend my time rewatching DS9

There’s a very bleak joke in that Janeway’s repeatedly kicking the Borg in the balls eventually tipped them over the edge and they became instead: We are the Borg.  Prepare to be annihilated.

It was practically: Assimilate? Are you fucking kidding after the amount of shit this lot have caused? No, we’re wiping the fuck ers out with thousands of cubes.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Yeah, it’s basically TNG lite for the whole run.  There are a few good moments scattered around, but it’s incredibly average.

Caveat: I gave up on the show in series 5 and have only watched a handful of episodes after that.

I rode it out to the bitter end and it doesn’t get better.

Outside of a decent episode here and there, Voyager was mediocrity at its most mediocre.

Average is fine by me. It’s something light to pass an hour in the evening, nothing more.

Though I’m concerned that no one has confirmed Nelix’s demise…

Bruce wrote:

Though I’m concerned that no one has confirmed Nelix’s demise…

(Insert awkward cough here.)

Though I’m concerned that no one has confirmed Nelix’s demise…

 

Neelix is not aboard Voyager by the end of the show.

It’s a very hit and miss show, mostly miss.

But then came Enterprise and don’t get me started on Enterprise!!!

SteveUK wrote:

But then came Enterprise and don’t get me started on Enterprise!!!

I’ve zero interest in Enterprise. Maybe that’s for the best!

Seasons 3 and 4 of Enterprise are pretty good! Relatively, at least.

Season 3 is one long story arc, about the fallout from a thinly-veiled 9/11 analog, and Season 4 is a bunch of 2-3 episode mini-arcs of wildly varying quality.

I’ve never seen Voyager and never wanted to. I’ve also only seen half of The Original Series. I was watching it on TV, two eps a day, and that was too fast a pace for it not to feel very repetitive.

I’ve always enjoyed Voyager. I’d say it’s episodes are just as hit and miss as TNG, but the crew is definitely weaker. Except for Seven of Nine……Who is perfect in every single way.

Given Picard episode 1 drops tonight/tomorrow, do people want a separate thread to discuss it and keep this one spoiler free?

There already is a separate Picard thread so we’re all set.

Ian Smith wrote:

the crew is definitely weaker.

This is something I’ve noticed. I watched a Harry Kim centric episode last night (he finds himself back on earth for reasons?) and that shit was weak.

Ben wrote:

There already is a separate Picard thread so we’re all set.

Good. I’m planning to watch it on day of release or as close as possible so I’d appreciate spiilers to be contained.

In a terrible show Harry Kim somehow is the worst. Even Neelix is less dull, and I fucking hate Neelix.

Uncle Retrospective wrote:

In a terrible show Harry Kim somehow is the worst. Even Neelix is less dull, and I fucking hate Neelix.

But he plays the clarinet!  That’s a character trait of sorts.

Worked for Riker.

rory wrote:

Worked for Riker.

Notice how Riker only got good after he played the trombone, was a horndog, refused to stand or sit normally, hung out with Wesley to a level that would require police vetting in modern times and then grew a beard?

Better?

How does Beardykim sit down?

On a French Horn.

I’m amused at your attempts to improve a character on a show that ended almost 19 years ago.

Rocket wrote:

almost 19 years ago.

No. Way.

 

So I had the morning off work and while I waited to… acquire episode 1 of Picard I wound up watching First Contact again, and that is one excellently assembled movie. The script is tight as all hell, introduces the characters, manages to give everyone a few moments (Crusher and Troi get the least to do, because of course, but still), moves between action, tension and comedy effortlessly like when the scenes shift between Riker and Geordi tracking down Cochrane after he ran away, Data and the Borg Queen, and then Picard on the Enterprise.  There’s a solid 20 minutes where the focus moves between those three plots at all the right times.

Perhaps most importantly, it does a really good job of including fan service and continuity but not making it impenetrable to casual viewers.  Robert Picardo and Ethan Phillips’ cameos are wonderful touches, the connection back to the Borg episodes of TNG is explained succinctly and effectively,  You don’t need to know the Defiant is the ship from DS9, it’s just where Worf is when he shows up in the movie.

And it looks great to boot!

Rocket wrote:

I’m amused at your attempts to improve a character on a show that ended almost 19 years ago.

Steady on there. I don’t think anyone would go as far as to try calling Harry Kim a character.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

So I had the morning off work and while I waited to… acquire episode 1 of Picard I wound up watching First Contact again, and that is one excellently assembled movie. The script is tight as all hell, introduces the characters, manages to give everyone a few moments (Crusher and Troi get the least to do, because of course, but still), moves between action, tension and comedy effortlessly like when the scenes shift between Riker and Geordi tracking down Cochrane after he ran away, Data and the Borg Queen, and then Picard on the Enterprise.  There’s a solid 20 minutes where the focus moves between those three plots at all the right times.

Perhaps most importantly, it does a really good job of including fan service and continuity but not making it impenetrable to casual viewers.  Robert Picardo and Ethan Phillips’ cameos are wonderful touches, the connection back to the Borg episodes of TNG is explained succinctly and effectively,  You don’t need to know the Defiant is the ship from DS9, it’s just where Worf is when he shows up in the movie.

And it looks great to boot!

First Contact was my first proper experience of Star Trek, aside from having caught bits of a couple of the earlier movies on TV as a kid. My mates were big Star Trek fans and wanted to see it at the cinema when it came out so I went along. They filled me in on the Borg backstory I needed to know and I enjoyed it more than I expected. I still think it’s one of the better Star Trek films I’ve seen.

Bruce wrote:

Rocket wrote:

I’m amused at your attempts to improve a character on a show that ended almost 19 years ago.

Steady on there. I don’t think anyone would go as far as to try calling Harry Kim a character.

Which Harry Kim are we talking about? The first one or the second one?

The one without the beard.

obviously they tried to make him more likable. here is a picture of him with some alien competitor(?)

Forgot Picard started last night, but looks like Amazon gets the episodes on Fridays.

Posting the info here as it’s useful to know and not a spoiler.

Do you think he realises…?

 

After consultation with our Great Military Leaders, designers, and others, I am pleased to present the new logo for the United States Space Force, the Sixth Branch of our Magnificent Military! pic.twitter.com/TC8pT4yHFT

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 24, 2020

 

 

Next he’ll decide it needs to shorter, snappier. … something like Starfleet.

Nobody understood quite how it happened, but Donald Trump’s presidency manage to usher in a post-scarcity utopian socialist society on Earth…

Discovery just keeps getting better. I’ve just watched the one that combined the TOS action of a Klingon jail break with the TNG touchy-feely concern over hurting a possibly sentient creature, and it blends both strands perfectly. The solution to the fungus/navigator problem was obvious a mile off and yet the exact resolution still surprised me (I assumed it would be I-can-do-anything-better-than-anyone Burnham doing it). The fungus science guy, Stamets, has become an awesome three-dimensional character without even growing a beard or playing a musical instrument, which is astonishing for Star Trek. I fear he will come to a sticky end though, because our knowledge of the future tells us that his super-drive must be fatally flawed as it’s never used again.