Thought it might be worth having somewhere to talk about the new season with spoilers.
Star Trek Discovery: Spoiler discussion
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I enjoyed this week’s episode quite a bit. I thought the drama worked and it did well at setting out Michael’s character in quite blunt terms and making sense of a lot of the contradictions there in a way that also directly affected the plot. And I liked the nod to Nimoy, even if I did raise my eyebrow a little at the suggestion that Spock was only so great because he had Michael as a sister (which is such a Disco thing to say).
But the Tilly storyline seems like a big stretch to me. I know plausibility is quite a fluid concept in a fantastical sci-fi universe, but even so her appointment felt highly implausible. I hope this is part of a larger storyline about Saru making poor choices as captain – although hopefully not one that ends with him relinquishing the captaincy to someone else, as I like him in that role.
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Also the episode should have been called Never Say Ni’var Again.
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And Michael just HAS to turn up late to Tilly’s celebration so she can become the centre of attention and immediately steal her thunder.
She is the dirt worst.
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I do listen to you guys, even when I don’t agree. Maybe I need to admit I want to like this show, and honestly feel that I do.
Yet when you make your points, well, I wasn’t thinking that way, but you aren’t pulling it out of the blue.
“the centre of attention“… I can’t argue.My first thought is that they are a bit too much focused on ‘Michael Burnham’s point-of-view’.
That is the set-up of the show, but they’ve turned the dial a tad much.Like Riker was supposed to be the focus of TNG, but Picard and Data were easily 1 & 2, and ran away with it about season 3 when they put collars on the uniforms (not to be rude, but Picard’s bald head didn’t look good with all that neck, then he made it fashionable).
Here, they will not let a hint of anything like that happen.
She is the star, and that’s that.
To me, it’s not a hinderance yet, and I enjoy.
But yeah, you guys are definitely on to something and they need to turn the dial back a bit for season 4.
I hope they listen to stuff like this.3 users thanked author for this post.
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I thought this episode was the most boring, terrible soap opera piece of crap TV I have seen in years.
Full of “dramatic moments” that were terribly written and overacted. And as usually everything is surface, all telling and no showing. “I don’t feel like I fit in anymore!”. Yeah, we kind of got that, you didn’t exactly hide it. Hey, she did something different for a full year after all. Let’s have a good cry about it, yeah? Oh, hi mother. You are apparently a Vulcan nun now. Cool. Oh no, my mother is saying bad things about me. I must cry. Wait, no, she’s only doing this in front of the talkshow audience because she wants me to grow up and recognise myself. This is great! I must cry! The Vulcans have seen how true to my principles and awesome I am so they are giving me the thing now! I wonder if they cried? Oh, here’s mum. Thanks for everything. You are my mother and we just found each other a thousand years in the future, but now we have to say goodbye again because. Let’s have a good cry about it at least!Also, it seems like the only reason Saru can give why he chose Tilly of all people as second-as-command ahead of all the more experienced (and possibly capable) people is that she made a 900-year time jump that all those people also made. Yeah, sure. Hey, how about we have a big circle of people all expressing their warm feelings towards Tilly so we can all have a good cry together?
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Also, it seems like the only reason Saru can give why he chose Tilly of all people as second-as-command ahead of all the more experienced (and possibly capable) people is that she made a 900-year time jump that all those people also made. Yeah, sure. Hey, how about we have a big circle of people all expressing their warm feelings towards Tilly so we can all have a good cry together?
“Tilly, I have chosen you as my number one because you seem to be very popular with the viewers, and it might make for some interesting storylines.”
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There will be a lot of people on that bridge who are going to be resentful at being passed over for promotion. Hopefully we’re in for a lot of workplace bitching over the next few episodes.
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I thought this episode was the most boring, terrible soap opera piece of crap TV I have seen in years.
Wait… this isn’t the Star Wars thread?
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There will be a lot of people on that bridge who are going to be resentful at being passed over for promotion. Hopefully we’re in for a lot of workplace bitching over the next few episodes.
Oh God I think that might actually be happening. Also, I just can’t wait for all those scenes of Tilly feeling not up to being in command and crying about it but then being consoled by somebody telling her how good she’s actually doing and how great a person she is and then she does a really good job because she’s got new confidence and then she’s crying again, but happy crying this time.
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Michael: my crew and I sacrificed everything to save all sentient life in the universe.
Seconds pass…
Michael: the stakes are so much higher now!!!
Get a grip, Michael.
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There will be a lot of people on that bridge who are going to be resentful at being passed over for promotion. Hopefully we’re in for a lot of workplace bitching over the next few episodes.
Oh God I think that might actually be happening. Also, I just can’t wait for all those scenes of Tilly feeling not up to being in command and crying about it but then being consoled by somebody telling her how good she’s actually doing and how great a person she is and then she does a really good job because she’s got new confidence and then she’s crying again, but happy crying this time.
I hope it becomes more of a slapstick comedy about all the shit that’s caused by Tilly’s incompetence and lack of experience.
Saru’s new catchphrase is “Tillllllllyyyyyyy!?!”
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I’ll be honest, I got a bit bored two-thirds of the way through this episode, despite the nice space battle scenes. I just struggled to care a bit.
The little character moments were mostly good though. Saru trying to “make the phrase his own” got a laugh from me.
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What should happen with Georgiou;
Doctor’s Log:
Day 3: Patient refuses to consent to treatment, cannot proceed.
Day 10: Patient died, can’t win them all.
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Those robots are still very suspicious.
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If this show has taught us nothing else it’s that every major galactic event revolves around Discovery and, wherever possible, Michael in particular.
This is a complaint I can’t get behind. Like, I can understand not liking Michael as a character, but this is Star Trek and she is the main character. She’s going to be the centre of all these portentious events which are going to be focused on Discovery the same way the Enterprise was the only ship in range for whatever disaster in TOS and TNG, and DS9 was the most important starbase in the Alpha Quadrant. If Sisko was the main character in DISCO, then he’d be the one to star the Klingon War and mutiny, and be the Red Angel and lead the ship into the future – and conversely if Burnham was the main character in DS9 then she’d discover the wormhole, and be the Emissary of the Prophets and make first contact with the Dominion and go back in time to be Gabriel (Gabrielle?) Bell, and bring the Romulans into the war and defeat the Dominion in the end and then vanquish the Pah Wraiths before becoming Space Jesus…
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If we’re comparing Discovery to those shows then it has a long way to go to develop the rest of the characters. Picard and Sisko may have been the official leads in TNG and DS9 but the shows could just as easily have major plots and whole episodes revolving around Data or Worf or whoever. Discovery has never really come close to matching that, although this week it did a lot to make several characters seem useful. I hope they continue to do so.
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And how long ago did that happen anyway? 100 years? Imagine that all the ships in the world sunk in 1920 for some reason. You don’t think we would have figured out what went wrong by now and have resumed sea travel? Discovery has only been around the future for a few weeks and they’ve already more or less figured out what happened. But then again they have Michael.
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If this show has taught us nothing else it’s that every major galactic event revolves around Discovery and, wherever possible, Michael in particular.
This is a complaint I can’t get behind. Like, I can understand not liking Michael as a character, but this is Star Trek and she is the main character. She’s going to be the centre of all these portentious events which are going to be focused on Discovery the same way the Enterprise was the only ship in range for whatever disaster in TOS and TNG, and DS9 was the most important starbase in the Alpha Quadrant. If Sisko was the main character in DISCO, then he’d be the one to star the Klingon War and mutiny, and be the Red Angel and lead the ship into the future – and conversely if Burnham was the main character in DS9 then she’d discover the wormhole, and be the Emissary of the Prophets and make first contact with the Dominion and go back in time to be Gabriel (Gabrielle?) Bell, and bring the Romulans into the war and defeat the Dominion in the end and then vanquish the Pah Wraiths before becoming Space Jesus…
I haven’t watched a huge amount of past Star Trek but I think the issue is not just that she is the central character who deals with this stuff but also that the stuff she deals with often seems to be closely linked to her and her family and loved ones personally.
So all the stuff about Spock that was the focus of the first season was all about her family connection, the time-travel angel thing that was the central arc of season two was all about her and her mum, and this season a lot has revolved around her personally too, with the show often going out of its way to underline how she is personally tied to events and/or is particularly special to the extent that no-one else could have solved the problem, or at least not like she did.
I don’t have a particular problem with that as it’s obviously a way to create good personal drama, but it does feel different to what little I’ve watched of Star Trek in the past. The handful of TNG episodes I’ve watched seem to be about the crew dealing with some problem or drama, and often in a way that becomes personal to them and allows the show to explore their character – but the problem itself isn’t intrinsically linked to them so strongly. It’s not all about some family or romantic matter that’s incredibly personal to Picard or Riker or whatever.
It reminds me a little of that period of Doctor Who where Moffat started to have everything tie back to the Doctor or his companions in some way. They were suddenly at the centre of every plot and it was all about them, rather than them being characters who just wandered into a situation and had to help sort it out for the people involved.
Like I say, I don’t have a problem with this in principle if the show is wringing good drama out of it. But often there seems to be particular effort made to point out how special or unique Michael is (like that scene a couple of episodes back that suggested Spock was only so great because he had Michael as a sister), and I’m not sure whether it’s the writers trying to add gravitas or make us more impressed with Michael or care about her more or whatever, but it can feel a bit forced.
The characters I’ve really come to like and care about in the show are the ones who aren’t put in that spotlight all the time but who have their character gradually built up through occasional asides or minor subplots that involve them being affected by the events of the show in a personal way, but without them having to be personally tied to the root of every plot. Just dealing with this stuff as it happens to them in the course of their life as part of the crew.
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I agree with Dave here. Yes Sisko did all that but it was spread out over years. I’m rewatching DS9 and I’m half way into season 3 and they’re just beginning to explore what being the Emissary is. We know as much about the rest of the cast as we do about Sisko, hell, we’ve had Nog episodes at this point.
Disco is just all Burnham all the time and it shows that the programme really works best when she’s not the main focus.
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Wait, did they just reatroavtively make Michael the reason why Spock was who he was??? Holy shit, I’m not even a fan and that hurts… I can only imagine what fans must be thinking about that retcon =P
“Tilly, I have chosen you as my number one because you seem to be very popular with the viewers, and it might make for some interesting storylines.”
Is she really though? imo she’s BY FAR the worst character of the entire show. Literally every other person in the ship is more interesting and less cringy, yes, even Michael.
There will be a lot of people on that bridge who are going to be resentful at being passed over for promotion. Hopefully we’re in for a lot of workplace bitching over the next few episodes.
Nah, everyone will be super happy for her because they’re all family… but even if they did… nothing a good crying session can’t resolve… u_u
The following episode was more tolerable… like Christian said, you take out the bawling sessions and suddenly it just gets better… weird huh?
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The stuff about Spock was also in the second series though?
Yeah, I would agree that the first season is pretty free of it. I mean, Michael is very much in-focus at the start because she’s a supposed war criminal and everything, but the plot doesn’t revolve around her – and Lorca is there to balance things out.
The second season though is exactly as Dave describes it. Now personally, I don’t mind that this was the case in one season (I didn’t mind it for one or two seasons of Doctor Who, it’s just that it never never until it all disappeared up its own arse with the Pandorica), I just hope that the don’t fall into that again in season 3. But honestly I don’t see it that way. It’d have been nice if it was more of an ensemble and if Michael wasn’t always the one who has to come up with the solution (especially grating e.g. in the Trill episode where I was wondering why they’d throw the human into the water to communicate with the symbiote and not one of the dozens of people available who had trained for their whole lives for this) – but as long as it doesn’t turn out that Michael actually caused the Burn (or somebody caused it to trap Michael or whatever) then I don’t mind it.
I guess tolerance for this kind of thing is subjective and probably depends how likeable you already find Michael as a character
I still like her, in theory. She’s become much more of a flat character really – all she says and does is connected to either her devotion to the Federation or her not feeling at home with the Federation anymore. Hey, remember that she used to be a xenoanthropologist?
Anyway, I’d be fine with her as a character if they finally developed her more and had her cry less.
Like Book. He’s my favorite character on this show because he’s the only one who knows how to have a little fun.3 users thanked author for this post.
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I guess I have a hard time buying into the premise. Look at how far our own tech has developed in the past hundred years, then amplify that by the power of Star Trek fictional science. They have lasted all this time without figuring out a new way to fuel long range travel or communications? Hmm. I think it would have worked better for Discovery to arrive in the more immediate aftermath of the Burn, surrounded by confusion and delay, without anybody having had a chance to really study what happened and with a Federation in total disarray rather than essentially the same, only smaller.
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Also the ostensible leads in previous Trek shows were the captains, so they were the focal point for both the show and for the ship. They tried a different approach here but all it has meant is having to shoe horn Michael into situations that would usually be covered by the captain (or the medical officer, or a security officer, or a science officer, or a pilot, or a diplomat… she covers a lot of bases).
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Also the ostensible leads in previous Trek shows were the captains, so they were the focal point for both the show and for the ship. They tried a different approach here but all it has meant is having to shoe horn Michael into situations that would usually be covered by the captain (or the medical officer, or a security officer, or a science officer, or a pilot, or a diplomat… she covers a lot of bases).
I think this is definitely part of why so many of these plots need to end up being so personal to her. To give her a reason to be so directly involved. The Ne’var episode is a good example.
Another part of it is that she’s written as a rebel, someone who constantly disobeys orders and goes off and does what she wants – which is a way of driving plotlines but also inevitably ends up hyping the character by usually suggesting that disobeying those orders was the right thing to do all along.
But then that’s no different to a lot of characters, in both Star Trek and elsewhere. Without that internal drama and disagreement and tension it could end up being a dull procedural type affair.
Still, it can sometimes feel like the show goes out of its way to cast her and her actions as being outright laudable when shades of grey are more interesting. It’s why I liked that recent episode that went for a more nuanced take – sanctioning Burnham for being wrong to disobey orders but also telling Saru that he shouldn’t have barred her outright because there was actually a middle way that could have been taken and would have been better for everyone all round.
Obviously you can’t do that too often with your lead character though or they start to look incompetent.
So some of this is just a function of having a lead character with a rebellious streak I think. It’s inevitable that they end up being put on a pedestal by other characters in-universe after so many correct hunches and impulses that turn out to be the right ones. But as a viewer watching the show, you can see the strings.
I used to feel similarly about Jack Bauer.
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Well if she turns around next week and yells “I get results, you stupid admiral!!” then this will all have been worth it.
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Dammit Saru, we are running out of time!
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I’m only in Season 1 and Burnham is annoying. I think it was a mistake to center the series on Michael. It feels like the ability to embrace the ensemble cast has been hobbled. I look at the episode with Mudd and the time loop. The story would have been so much better if it focused on Stamets, not Burnham. (I will say that the characterization of Mudd felt way off to me given what we had seen in TOS and TAS. Rain Wilson was a big miscast for me.)
Looking at the various ST series, I think Deep Space 9 had the best ensemble of characters. It had a great mix of personalities and backstories that combined for great stories. Major arcs, such as the war with the Klingons and the Dominion War, added another layer of complexity to the characters. Honestly, the show could have gone on longer if they had wanted it to. There was still so much to mine from the series.
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And the books did tap all that potential despite going off the rails, a time jump and then only being done over by the Hobus mess.
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I used to feel similarly about Jack Bauer.
God yes. From the very start. But then again, 24 was a mindboggingly dumb show; it was just such a rush structurally that you didn’t really mind that.
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To be brutally honest, I wish they’d leave the “Mirror Universe” the fuck alone.
It was sort of an intriguing concept for a single episode of TOS, but the concept just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
When you look at the way that universe operates, based on murder and conquest, it doesn’t make much sense for most of the characters to be together, or even alive, when they cross over. The Mirror Universe is going to have a higher body count than our regular universe, so most of these people will never even have been born in the first place, and if they are, there’s a good chance they’re going to die in battle or get murdered by an ambitious rival. Or their fathers. Or their grandfathers.
I do sort of have a fan theory that the “Mirror Universe” doesn’t really exist as a universe, and it’s more of a dark reflection of our universe, which would account for all of the coincidences between the two universes. It’s like, when someone crosses over, they don’t actually go to a second separate universe, but a dark versionof the one they’re in, and it would be constantly re-writing itself. If the proper Star Trek universe is the Super-Ego, then the Mirror Universe would be the Id unleashed.
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I don’t mind the Mirror universe that much, but it definitely suffers from diminishing returns when a show keeps going back to it.
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That was absolute shite, even Cronenburg and CSI Cop Guy were helpless to stop it being shite.
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Someone told Michael to shut the hell up at one point, so it has that going for it. Still do not care for these extended Mirror Universe plots, though.
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Yeah, this was… not so much fun. I don’t know, going back to Georgiou’s past and the Mirrorverse is just irritating me right now. Possibly because the whole plot is about her repairing her relationship to her Michael. I just don’t care about any of this. And it’s a double episode.
Say, do we think that Door Guy was a Q?
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So am I the only one who quite enjoyed this episode’s return to the
Sexy UniverseMirror Universe? It’s a good excuse to camp it up, and Stamets as a sort of futuristic space-gameshow-host was wonderful.Other than that, er… that shot of the snow turning into stars was nice?
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Is the Mirror Universe a place where everyone is a dick? Or just those who are good in Trek Universe are dicks? Are Mirror Universe Borg hippies?
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So am I the only one who quite enjoyed this episode’s return to the
Sexy UniverseMirror Universe? It’s a good excuse to camp it up, and Stamets as a sort of futuristic space-gameshow-host was wonderful.Other than that, er… that shot of the snow turning into stars was nice?
Nope, I enjoyed it as well. Sonequa Marten-Green’s scenery chewing was a lot of fun
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Are Mirror Universe Borg hippies?
Since the Borg are a collective, the Mirror Universe Borg would be Randroids.
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Say, do we think that Door Guy was a Q?
Lots of people convinced he’s the Guardian of Forever because his newspaper has the same name as one seen in The City on the Edge of Forever. But if that’s the case, why not just have the old-style Guardian in the episode?
They can actually use the Guardian of Forever now because Harlan Ellison is dead and can’t sue them.
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Nope, I enjoyed it as well. Sonequa Marten-Green’s scenery chewing was a lot of fun
Yes, particularly in that scene at the end. She clearly loved the chance to pull some of those faces.
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And here’s a big fucking spoiler for the latest episode…
https://i.imgur.com/2x85LF1.png
Eh, can’t figure out to hide spoilers on the new board, so there’s the link to the image.
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So, I’m not entirely sure what to make of the two-parter overall. I enjoyed it well enough as a story, but it doesn’t really feel like it fit into DISCO here. The mirrorverse story is basically illustrating to Georgiou that she’s changed since she she arrived in the Prime timeline because… We want her to have a moral core when she’s the star of her own show, I guess? But it might have been better to do that as character development across the series than devoting two episodes to the Testimonial Murder and Bitchiness Fest of Phillipa Georgiou (Mirror Universe Edition). And while the Guardian of Forever was a nice touch and I like the idea that it’s out on the galactic rim hiding from time soldiers, it was really just an unnecessary nod back to the Those Old Scientists era and didn’t add anything to the story.
It’s made a little bit worse by bookending the episode with the crew figuring out a lot of the mystery around The Burn, which I definitely found more interesting.
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I was just hoping for one of the polite smile officers in the background to chime in at the end with “she was responsible for millions of deaths” during their genial memorial for the genocidal dictator.
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They got paid for writing that shit?
“I remember when Georgiou lovingly microwaved my hamster. She said she did it with my best interests at heart. And again when she spaced my kitten. And shot my dog.”
This wasn’t in the ep but should have been. On the brighter side, the wicked witch is gone. Sadly, they will probably render her as the founder of Section 31 and present them as being so so noble.
I also take serious issue with the rubbish Michael came out with at the end. Someone like Georgiou does not encourage anyone to grow, nor does harsh cruelty work in the deluded way the writers believe.
There’s how many eps left now? Can’t have much space to recover from these crappy episodes.
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I wasn’t that bothered about the mirror universe stuff this episode – it wasn’t as fun or interesting as last week and I was basically waiting for it to be over and to get back to the real universe. And that took a while, so there wasn’t much time to focus on the fairly interesting developments towards the end.
Also I don’t know who or what the Guardian of Forever is, so that big dramatic announcement was unintentionally very funny for me. He might as well have said “I am the KING of INFINITY!” for all it meant to me. And I still feel none the wiser. I guess he’s like… the Beyonder or something?
I also thought the funeral scene was naff. I just wanted someone to quietly murmur “she was a fucking knob” in the background after the toast.
That said, Georgiou herself was pretty great in these episodes, which did more to develop her than the entire series so far, and it’s a shame to lose one of the most watchable characters/actors on the show.
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Also I don’t know who or what the Guardian of Forever is, so that big dramatic announcement was unintentionally very funny for me. He might as well have said “I am the KING of INFINITY!” for all it meant to me. And I still feel none the wiser. I guess he’s like… the Beyonder or something?
Ha! Yeah, I thought about that, as well. I mean, I’d looked him up because we’d discussed it here, and I sort of remember The City at the Edge of Forever from ages ago, but it really was a little bit like Cumberbatch Khan moment.
I think it was the big dramatic booming voice that did it. If you don’t know the relevance of the name, it all sounds a bit silly.
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They got paid for writing that shit?
Maybe they used one of those algorithm programs that allows computers to spit out a script that sounds like Shakespeare.
Either that, or a thousand monkeys sitting at a thousand typewriters for a thousand days.
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Gotta say, I really unreservedly enjoyed this week’s one. It’s a bit convenient how Discovery just sat there while Osiyrah’s ship deployed the tentacle things, but really, that’s par for the course with Trek, and everything in the Holodeck was great, especially Michael actually getting to be a xenobiologist for once.
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I watched the new episode but I have no idea what the heck just happened. Glad that Doug Jones got to escape a few hours in the make up chair at least. Hope he made the most of it. Got himself a nice sandwich from catering, that sort of thing.
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Michael actually getting to be a xenobiologist for once.
Xenoanthropologist.
Yeah, I quite enjoyed this one, too. Had to make it through the first ten minutes hanging on by the skin of my teeth, what with the undeserved over-emotion everywhere, the bad over-acting and dramatic whispering (for fuck’s sake, Sonequa!) and the bridge crew giving each other approving looks over things Tilly says. Fucking soap kindergarten.
But on the planet, it was actually pretty good – this felt like a proper Trek plot, there was some nice CGI work in the landscapes and with the monster, and there was even a sense of fun (loved the holos’ repeated clapping for the rescuers).
Liked the Disco plot less. I mean, after everything in building up Tilly (approving glances between the bridge crew once more, for Christ’s sake, people!), only to have it turn out that she’s completely incompetent after all… I suppose it’s kind of funny. Also, haven’t there been counter-measures to just beaming people on board of another ship for ages?1 user thanked author for this post.
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You would have thought the Federation allowing an ensign to take charge of the most valuable ship they have whilst being pursued by their most dangerous enemies would have been considered at some point.
What exactly are the rules of the spore drive anyway? As soon as the emerald ship appeared can’t they just start hopping Discovery around here, there and everywhere around the planet while waiting for the away team to return but not allowing the bad guys to grab hold of them?
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What exactly are the rules of the spore drive anyway?
Rule 1. Don’t talk about it.
Rule 2. See rule 1.
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Also, haven’t there been counter-measures to just beaming people on board of another ship for ages?
You generally can’t beam through shields but presumably the Burn-like event that caused the ships to decloak also messed up their shields, or the Emerald Chain have one of those handy transporters that ignores shields when it’s convenient to the plot (see Borg, The)
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I quite liked this one. Pretty exciting and dramatic and some amazingly impressive cgi and effects for the holo stuff. A decent cliffhanger too.
The whole Tilly thing feels like it’s playing out how we discussed a few weeks back, that Saru made a poor choice. But who knows, this is Discovery, by the end of next episode we could be watching a ceremony where everyone is toasting her as the finest Admiral that Starfleet ever appointed.
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[After Dave’s comment, Christian catches Todd’s and Lorcan’s eyes. They all nod approvingly at each other.]
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(Dave cries uncontrollably for 10 minutes.)
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Shaka, when the walls fell.
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(Dave cries uncontrollably for 10 minutes.)
But don’t you do that regularly anyway?
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(Dave cries uncontrollably for 10 minutes.)
But don’t you do that regularly anyway?
Only when I’m reading the Mandalorian thread.
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Loved that one. Admiral Vance’s speech was fantastic, the action on the ship was cool (though there has definitely been better choreography)… but was anyone else expecting Michael’s feet to get cut up by broken glass when she went to rescue Stamets from Engineering?
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but was anyone else expecting Michael’s feet to get cut up by broken glass when she went to rescue Stamets from Engineering?
Heh. Yeah, the Die Hard in Space thing was a nice idea, though not exactly great in execution. But overall, very solid episode. Kept the action going throughout in a nice way, and even if it was slightly silly to see the crew once again behave like giddy high-schoolers instead of Starfleet officers, at least they all showed some competence. The tiny robots revealed the relevance we all knew they were going to have, and it’s kinda cool (even if a little too cutesy). The big dramatic moment (Stamets’ conflict with Michael) felt earned for once, science guy was a cool character, and it was a nice twist that Ossyra is actually… pretty reasonable?
Honestly, I mean, that was a cool sprech and all, but shouldn’t Vance just have taken the deal? What’s the scenario in which things are going to be better than the deal they were going to get? Isn’t driving Ossyra off, with or without the spore drive, just going to mean there’ll be more war, and those planets will keep being exploited? This seems like a situation in which a healthy dose of realpolitik would’ve served him well.
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science guy was a cool character,
The actor playing him played Kol and a couple of other Klingons in series 1 and 2, but was diagnosed with ALS about a year ago and had to step back from acting. It’s very cool that the producers figured out a way to keep him in the show, and to continue having some representation for people with disabilities given the extra who was in a wheelchair doesn’t seem to have been part of the crew that travelled into the future.
Honestly, I mean, that was a cool sprech and all, but shouldn’t Vance just have taken the deal? What’s the scenario in which things are going to be better than the deal they were going to get? Isn’t driving Ossyra off, with or without the spore drive, just going to mean there’ll be more war, and those planets will keep being exploited? This seems like a situation in which a healthy dose of realpolitik would’ve served him well.
DISCO has spent a fair bit of time interrogating the Federation and Starfleet on their ideals, and whether they stand up to scrutiny. This is the latest iteration of that storytelling thread. Vance insisting Ossyra stand trial is him standing up for his ideals, and also putting hers to the test. That it lead to her abandoning the talks likely means a lot of what she said prior to that was true in a literal sense but she wasn’t going to be a trustworthy partner for the Federation.
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That it lead to her abandoning the talks likely means a lot of what she said prior to that was true in a literal sense but she wasn’t going to be a trustworthy partner for the Federation.
Well, sure. And that’s no surprise I’d say. But an armistice and her withdrawal from those planets would surely still have been better than prolonged war. Making other people suffer for your ideals when there’s a pragmatic solution available seems a tad on the fanatic side of things.
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Yeah, that’s quite true. I don’t know if I’d be all that interested in them keeping the Emerald Chain conflict going anyways. Although it’s not a bad idea to basically make the bad guy Capitalism.
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I enjoyed this one again. This has been a decent long-form story and I’m looking forward to seeing how it plays out.
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The negotiations were an odd choice. If the Admiral somehow got She Hulk to stand trial for crimes then she becomes a martyr for the Chain, provokes anger in her followers and immediately undermines any chance of peace. And if she really wanted to negotiate a treaty she could have initiated that in a myriad of ways other than stealing the Federation’s most valuable asset, holding the Police Academy bridge crew hostage and entering Federation headquarters under false pretences.
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And if she really wanted to negotiate a treaty she could have initiated that in a myriad of ways other than stealing the Federation’s most valuable asset, holding the Police Academy bridge crew hostage and entering Federation headquarters under false pretences.
Well, if you bring logic into it now…
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Heh. Yeah, the Die Hard in Space thing was a nice idea, though not exactly great in execution.
It would have been improved dramatically if Burnham had said “Yippee ki yay, motherfucker” into the stolen communicator before throwing it away.
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the Police Academy bridge crew
Ha! I’m not going to be able to see them as anything else now.
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I still have no idea what the point of the Grimbots was but I very much enjoyed that finale. It feels like season four can finally get the hell on with what the show wanted to be all along.
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That’s certainly the impression the ending left us with. But personally, I’m through with hoping it gets better. It only got worse in three seasons.
This episode once again highlighted the flaws of the show. Apparently, Michael’s plan in convincing Vance to let them go was to overpower a bunch of guards with their weapons trained on her through nothing but sheer luck. And that’s how they went in a situation in which logically, it should’ve been easy to convince Osyraa to give up. And after she had made it her priority to get rid of Stamets so Osyraa wouldn’t be able to use the spore drive, suddenly there’s a Booker-can-do-it-too! ex machina rendering that whole plotline absurd. Well done! Oh, and why exactly did she eject the warp core when they could’ve just jumped away without the risk that brought with it? Did they just want to kill everybody on that ship on general principle? Because with Osyraa dead, those people would probably have just run or surrendered, and a great part of them was probably slaves anyway. But hey, after all first Vance decided that he wouldn’t do the whole pesty armistice and peace stuff and then nobody talked about the option of surrendering when they had them cornered, so I suppose this is the logical conclusion. (I was completely on Osyraa’s side when Michael said “It doesn’t have to be like this!” and she says, “Well I fucking tried, didn’t I?!”.)
But who needs plot or character logic when instead, you can have people telling Michael one more time how special she is with her bulsshit ways and looking at each other approvingly and trembling with the emotional joy and pride of seeing their friend take the Captain’s chair.
When the next season comes around, can someone please remind me that I really, really don’t want to watch this anymore?
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