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Spider-Man: No Way Home – SPOILER discussion
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Saw it earlier and loved it. Charlie Cox’s appearance brought an audible gasp from the audience. Andrew Garfield’s brought a spontaneous cheer and round of applause.
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The Cox and Hardy cameos were fun.
We had cheers at Garfield and clapping for Maguire. All very reserved and British, but unusual all the same.
The film’s a lot of fun. Does slow down from time to time. But, Holland is great in it and carries it through.
A strange brand new day type ending. Wonder where it will go from here.
Suspect we’ll see Tom return the favour in Dr Strange 2 next year.
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Overall I had mixed feelings on this. It’s a lot better than Far From Home, and of all the MCU Spidey movies it feels like the one that ‘gets’ the character best.
The story is more solid and thoughtful than I thought it would be – a bit more than just a flimsy excuse for all the cameos – and there were a couple of moments that as a longtime Spidey fan I found pretty moving (particularly May’s death, Ock meeting the older Maguire, and Garfield saving MJ).
But on the other hand it felt like they didn’t really make the most of having all these guys back – with so many characters in the mix, it feels like they each don’t get that much time to shine, even Maguire and Garfield. And a lot of the time they’re reduced to little more than catchphrases and memes (Osborn’s “I’m something of a scientist myself” got laughs in my screening).
It felt like the movie thought it was enough of a big climax just to have Garfield and Maguire show up, and didn’t really do anything interesting with them or the three Spider-Men dynamic. (And maybe for most people it is enough just for them to show up – there were screams in the audience when Garfield unmasked and gasps when Maguire stepped out. Even Cox received an audible murmur of approval early on.)
I don’t know, it feels like stuff like the long lab scene with all three of them just didn’t have the energy or excitement that we should have been feeling at that point, when we’ve only just got all the Spideys together.
Also, the fake-out Maguire-death near the end was pretty half-hearted.
But overall it was a pretty fun movie – Strange was good, Dafoe was pretty great, and overall it was an ok ride Of a story. Although not one I really see myself coming back to.
I do wonder whether the big reset button at the end was wise though. I like the idea of a more traditional low-tech solo Spidey in future, but it felt like the development was mainly included because of the uncertain state of Sony-Marvel relations – giving them an option to make a completely MCU-free Sony movie again or have him reintegrate into the MCU.
And the magic spell resolution of the identity thing is just as much of a headache here as in the comics. Time to prepare for months of movie audiences having exactly the same “but how does… surely they… but isn’t…?” conversations that we all had when One More Day and Brand New Day came out.
The Strange sequel looks good though. What little we see of Raimi’s take on Ditko’s visuals already looks dazzling.
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Well I think it’ would’ve been cooler to have 2 villains from each, so Mysterio and Vulture for Holland, Doc Oc and Sandman for Maguire and Electro and Lizard for Garfield… but of course they were gonna bring Defoe’s GG back…
Also, I don’t know if they changed anything from the trailers, but they should’ve tweaked the Lizard’s look because he looked very shitty in ASM1.
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My crowd cheered for Andrew Garfield, which is the only time that has happened outside of Endgame.
I’m actually surprised at the amount of very positive reactions I’m seeing/reading for Garfield’s SM… like a lot of people saying he stole the movie and such, and in a movie with 3 good SMen, not a small thing… Really warms my heart as he’s my favorite SM, both he and Emma Stone got a raw deal.
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Garfield got as big a reaction as Maguire in my screening, although possibly because he was first to appear and everyone realised what was happening.
I do think though that him saving MJ might have been the most emotional moment of the film. I got a bit choked up. It was a moment that meant a lot for Spider-Man in general, beyond just these movies, and it also encapsulated the whole ‘second chances’ theme of the film really nicely.
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Tom Holland: ‘I Feel Like We Might Be Ready to Say Goodbye to Spider-Man’
It’s cute that Tom thinks Disney will let him go. He’ll be done playing Spider-Man when king mouse allows it to be so.
Anyway, that was just fun. Seeing it with a big crowd that got excited every time someone showed up was an experience that I’ve missed during this endless pandemic. It was pure fan service and I dug it all. I was honestly a little surprised that Miles didn’t pop up as some small cameo to commit to the Spiderverse stuff.
Not entirely sure where they go from here. Setting up Ned as the next villain seems like an obvious choice, especially with his promise to never go that route. Now that he doesn’t remember Peter I would assume that’s where they’re going.
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I enjoyed it. I felt like Endgame it’s one that works better if you focus on the character beats than the intricacies of the plot that do fall apart if you think about them too much. The moments like Garfield Spidey saving MJ were very well done.
I suspect with Sandman and Lizard that Church and Ifans did everything from a remote recording studio. They are completely CGI and voiceover bar a few brief seconds they could have done from stock footage.
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Well… they went going real epic and for the most part they delivered.
I have been sofa king frustrated and P*ssed off at Parker ever since he naively gave Mysterio those glasses in that movie.
Now in this one, he messes up the original spell, snatches the return box, outsmarts a trained wizard the first time he is in the wizard’s own “Inception” like dimension, frees and brings all the villains to his home. I mean… When this Parker f*cks up…No good deed goes unpunished.
It was nice seeing the 3 of them together, exchange notes, and so on. At least the MCU is acknowledging the movies and continuity from the other studios.
Is the spider sense some kind of premonition? Telepathy?
Confused?The post credit with Hardy disappearing and that small piece of Venom goo left on the counter…
So now the MCU is going even more epic with the Strange and Wanda movie. Can they pull it off, or are they biting off more than what they can chew?
They are WAY too many stories to be had by Marvel. What space will there be in theatres for Scorcese, Spielberg, Villanueva, and Ridley?
DC… No comment
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Can they pull it off,
No, every film they make from now on will be shit. Way of the western.
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Can they pull it off,
No, every film they make from now on will be shit. Way of the western.
Dude, SPOILERS!!!
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If Stark was this super genius, how will they portray Reed Richards, and Doom who developed his own time machine?
Probably the same as the comics, more than one super genius. We kind of already have that, Hank Pym is a super genius and so is Shuri.
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What would work? Galactus? Eternity? The Living Tribunal? What? 😂
If it were me in Feige’s job? None of the above.
Maybe Galactus but I wouldn’t be rushing into using him.
I don’t think that very cosmic stuff is really what has ever made Marvel tick or in truth was very popular. Guardians of the Galaxy only really stuck when they shifted it to a more character led comic under Abnett and Lanning and that’s the version used in the films . Thanos operates on that cosmic scale but their version was really sold by how relatable they made the character (unlike some of their less successful pantomime villains).
There’s always a temptation to keep trying to top the scale of the last story but I think something like the great reaction Hawkeye has got says you don’t have to. The moments people react to in those audience clips of the last 2 Avengers movies are all character led. When they all come back through the gates they cheer loudest for Spider-Man, is he the best chance of beating Thanos? No, they just like him best because Tom Holland makes him charming.
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I think reduxing Green Goblin would be a bit weird (especially as this film pretty much stated Osborne doesn’t exist in the main MCU) but doing a Hobgoblin with someone who has picked up Norman’s discarded tech (someone from inside Damage Control maybe) would be interesting.
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Random thought: Tony Stark was this universe’s Norman Osborn for Peter Parker.
So you’re saying bring Tony back from the grave and make him a supervillain?
I dig it.
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Have we abandoned hope for a Kraven/Spidey film?
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Black Cat makes sense. Although I still think they’re setting up for a Ned villain turn. Would probably have the most emotional weight as Peter wrestles with the fallout of everyone forgetting about him.
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Have we abandoned hope for a Kraven/Spidey film?
A pity Tony Dalton is the Swordsman. He would have made a great Kraven.
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One thing Spidey is never short of is great villains.
They still haven’t done Kraven, Hobgoblin, Black Cat, Scorpion, Hydro Man, Hammerhead, Morlun, Mr Negative, Chameleon, Prowler, Silver Sable, even Kingpin might be an option now. Any of those could work as a good movie villain.
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David has a different definition of a good villain from mine, it seems
They might not have all had outstanding comics stories (although I’d argue that a lot of them have) – but that doesn’t really matter when you’re reimagining them for a movie.
All of those villains listed (and more besides) have the potential to be compelling movie bad-guys, with interesting stories and visual appeal.
Even characters like Prowler, Mister Negative or Silver Sable, who might seem like second- or third-tier characters to comics fans, have clear potential: the animated Spider-Verse movie and the PS4 video game show how easily they could be adapted as good movie villains.
Ultimately I don’t think the movies should feel constained by how popular and successful these characters and concepts have been in the comics. Movies like GotG and Shang-Chi should have taught us that lesson (if we hadn’t learned it already from the likes of Blade).
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Great Spider-Man villains? And no mention of Spot?
Or Chance for that matter?
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Ultimately I don’t think the movies should feel constained by how popular and successful these characters and concepts have been in the comics. Movies like GotG and Shang-Chi should have taught us that lesson (if we hadn’t learned it already from the likes of Blade).
I agree completely, and disagree slightly. You can take any character and make them great in a movie by, you know, writing them well. But some characters are rather more compelling than others in the first place, and that can help.
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What even is a Kraven movie without Spider-Man? Like, what’s the hook?
The gist of the story is that renowned surgeon Mrs. Kraven is called in to the hospital for an emergency procedure, leaving Kraven home alone to feed the kids and get them ready for school. But when Baby Kraven goes missing, all plans are out the window as Kraven and the older kids switch to “the Hunter” mode to find the baby before Doctor Mom gets home. Hijinks ensue!!
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What even is a Kraven movie without Spider-Man? Like, what’s the hook?
The gist of the story is that renowned surgeon Mrs. Kraven is called in to the hospital for an emergency procedure, leaving Kraven home alone to feed the kids and get them ready for school. But when Baby Kraven goes missing, all plans are out the window as Kraven and the older kids switch to “the Hunter” mode to find the baby before Doctor Mom gets home. Hijinks ensue!!
Dude, SPOILERS!!!
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I didn’t think about this before, but apparently the main villain in ALL the seven previous Spider-man movies find out that Peter Parker is Spider-man. That is really lazy of the writers.
So a great twist for the next one would be a villain who just fights Spider-man and has no idea that Peter Parker even exists. And at no point in the movie does he threaten to kill any of Peter Parkers friends, girlfriends or relatives, he just threatens to kill other people.
If anyone in Hollowood is interested, I have the time to write a script!
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There are a few problems with the Spider-Man movies from that angle, I think there’s too much tragedy in them, especially the Amazing ones, too much revealing of Peter’s identity and (this is true of a lot of superhero movies going back to the 1989 Batman) too much of the villains dying at the end.
The comics always knew, if you had a good villain, keep him around for another day. You can overdo it I suppose, a recent read of the original Lee/Kirby X-Men comics has Magneto coming back every other issue but in essence they were right that he’s a good villain who has stood the test of nearly 60 years in a way The Vanisher and Unus the Untouchable didn’t.
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A nice pic of the Spideys and their stunt doubles from NWH.
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The comics always knew, if you had a good villain, keep him around for another day.
That makes sense for comics, where you’re going to be publishing monthly stories for decades and you’re going to run out of villain ideas. For a movie franchise where you might get a trilogy if you’re lucky, there is absolutely no need to stockpile returning villains.
I also agree that it’s bad to always kill off your villains, but that’s because heroes should always find a way to save people, even evil people. But from a movie logistics point of view, it doesn’t matter.
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Well it maybe didn’t matter but now (albeit via reboots) we’re onto 8 or 9 instalments of things like Spider-Man. Truth is if you look at the early Marvel comics some villains are definitely more successful than others. Magneto and Doom return all the time in X-Men and FF and a slew of bad guys we barely see again over 60 years. (To be fair the X-Men movies always kept Magneto around too).
No Way Home in a sense is a perfect example of that as everyone was there was a big desire to see at least a couple of those villains back again.
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Sorry that I posted my observation about Parker’s friend Nate in the Marvel thread instead of here where it really belonged.
Until next time.
Al…
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Ned!
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“Yes, Spider-Man, it is I, your best friend and closest confidant, who was the master villain all along!”
“Oh my god, Fred!”
“Nnggghhhhhh!”
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I finally got to see this one, somehow.
I was surprised to find myself rather underwhelmed by it. Perhaps this was due to watching it in fits and starts while tending to a screaming baby. Perhaps I would have enjoyed it more had I gotten to see it in the opening week, without having already heard so much about the who and what of it all. I did make a conscious effort to avoid hearing spoilers or even watching any of the trailers but still picked up on most of what happened. Something like the Charlie Cox cameo might have seemed cooler while caught up in the heat of the moment but now it fell flat as it became apparent how it meant bugger all to the rest of the movie. Again, I come back to my longstanding gripe about the length of these movies. No need for this to be 2 1/2 hours long when things like that entire opening stretch of the movie could be condensed way, way down without affecting the rest of the film at all. Sandman and Lizard could have been cut out completely without missing a beat. Sorry to say it but the same goes for J Jonah Jameson, who had none of the abrasive allure of the Raimi movies and here was little more than a cinematic version of an auto-play video pop-up ad.
One thing that did come as a surprise was the death of Hot Aunt May. My heart sank as soon as she started on the “with great power…” speech and then my worst fears were confirmed. Sad to see this version of the character go. The death scene hit hard and was brilliantly acted by Tomei and Holland.
It was also cool to see Defoe and Molina getting back to chewing as much scenery as they could a couple of decades later (although Molina’s hair looked rough as hell… then again, I suppose that works for Doc Ock). Jamie Foxx made the most of getting another chance to play Electro in a non-shit movie. Maguire Spidey was my gateway drug into all things Marvel back in the day so it was great to see him reprise the role here. I still don’t care at all about Garfield Spidey but did enjoy the ‘sorry I’m shit’, “Peter 3!” way they portrayed him.
I am disappointed that they seemed to send Tom Hardy Venom back. His mid-credits scene was honestly the most enjoyable bit of the whole movie. With a lack of follow-up villains worth a damn for this version of Spidey, why not keep him around and do the crossover/team-up? They left the symbiote in the MCU so something like that will no doubt happen but it would be a stretch to make it as entertaining without the Tom Hardy version they’ve already built up in his two movies. I didn’t really get why Hardy Venom was brought to the MCU when it was only meant to be people who knew Peter Parker was Spider-Man who got pulled over. They could have hand-waved it away as something to do with the symbiote’s composition making him fall through the cracks, perhaps foreshadowing more multiverse problems to come, but then he just got sent back across. Bit of a waste.
Speaking of all that, did it bother anyone else that Strange even tried to do the spell before Peter messed it up? They made such a fuss in the Avengers movies about all these science/military people having so much unfettered power and how dangerous that was for the world. Now there’s a wizard with zero accountability who can go around erasing people’s memories at will, apparently even for things as innocuous as Wong embarrassing himself at a party. And that’s not to mention Wanda’s recent troubles. Maybe they’ll address this in the next Strange movie. It really seems like they should.
Also, if I had been waiting around in the theatre an extra 10 minutes to see a post-credits scene and only got a sneak-peek at the next Strange movie, I would have been rather irritated. At least seeing it at home with the fast-forward button made it more palatable.
I was also left trying to wrap my head around the new reality of nobody remembering Peter Parker at all. Much like the Endgame Snap stuff, it seems like a needless complication. Was he still raised by Hot Aunt May? It seems like Happy still remembered dating her but he only met her via Peter’s relationship with Stark, which nobody knows about now. Did Peter not even go to the same high school as MJ and Ned? How does he even afford to rent a shitty apartment in New York? Does he even have a social security number? It raises way more questions than it needs to, whereas they could have just restored the ‘nobody knows I’m Spider-Man’ spell and gotten to the same place in a less troublesome way.
Looking back at this trilogy of Holland Spidey movies now and it is hard to shake the feeling that it has been a bit of a waste of someone who is so great in the Parker/Spidey roles. Homecoming was fantastic and had such a palpable, youthful energy to it that was not bogged down by the broader MCU ties. Unfortunately, the Stark Kid elements did come to dominate things in Far From Home and his other appearances. Then we have No Way Home effectively being a tie-in mini-series to a Doctor Strange crossover event, albeit with some enjoyable moments sprinkled throughout. It seems like a fourth movie should at least be able to get on with street-level Spidey stuff without billionaire-funding or Avengers tie-ins and focus on Parker as a broke kid trying to make ends meet, which is always a classic take on the character – but it would just involve ignoring all the ‘a wizard did it’ nonsense that it took to get back to that point.
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Thanks for the replies, all good points there. We’ll see where things go from here for Holland Spidey but it does seem like there would have been an easier way to get him to the point they left him at here. It seems inevitable to be a letdown after the tease of inflicting drunk Tom Hardy Venom onto Peter Parker but maybe they’ve got something just as good in mind (although none of Black Cat, Kraven, Scorpion or Morbius would seem to be it).
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Watched this tonight.
Lot of fun. Can’t say I liked the ending, but there was no other way for it to go.
I do think they may have underestimated just how good the supporting cast is, so erasing them might not be the best move unless they undo it fast.
The multiverse aspect and Strange made for a good combination. Some seriously trippy effects too.
Starting to reckon watching these a few months on from the cinema release makes for a better time. Don’t have time to follow the rumours, don’t remember which bits of the trailer goes where, all makes for a quite fresh experience.
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Don’t buy the logic, but not worth arguing either.
Whatever logic was there in the MCU went to complete shit with Endgame, so yeah, not even worth thinking about logic at this point =P
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As for how they left things, I take it the Iron Spider tech is gone, but why?
If everyone forgets me, that would include the salesman who sold me my car, therefore my car disappears?
Don’t buy the logic, but not worth arguing either.
They’ve set things up for the next director how they wanted, that’s that.This one actually works easily for me because, you know, tech these days. If you can’t update a machine anymore, it’ll get fucked up pretty quickly.
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If everyone forgets me, that would include the salesman who sold me my car, therefore my car disappears?
this one is easy to solve. The sale still took place but if he went back to the dealership no one would recognize him. I know it’s not worth arguing but imo, stuff still happens, just no one remembers it.
my question is if Peter pulls on the suit do they now recognize him?
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What about his Netflix subscription?
I really wish Netflix had blamed Dr Strange for their declining subscriber numbers in the last quarter.
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Gory, R-rated Spider-Man fan-film murders Peter Parkers all across the Multiverse
Have you ever wondered what Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man movies would have been like if they were more like his Evil Dead oeuvre? Welp, this is about as close as you’re ever going to get. The 4-minute short film above (click link) mashes up footage from a variety of Marvel movies with plenty of brutal gore.
The basic “plot” is that Owen Wilson’s Time Variance Authority character from Loki has to travel the multiverse and eradicate all of the Spider-Man variants who shouldn’t be there. But that’s not really important. What matters here is seeing the most iconic moments from ever Spider-Man movie ruined with horrific blood and violence. And oh boy, it delivers.
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Now that nobody remembers Peter, the next movie could be called “Spider-Man: Home Alone”.
I expect somebody has already done that joke
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Spider-Man: Home Is Where You Hang Your Hat
Spider-Man: Homo
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Spider-Man: Home Is Where You Hang Your Hat
Spider-Man: Homo
Damn! I hadn’t seen that in a long, long time!
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Given that I saw the original version on a small screen on an airplane, I may actually be interested in seeing this new extended version of Spider-Man: No Way Home
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