Starts tomorrow.
She-Hulk (Disney+) – SPOILER discussion
- This topic has 272 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 12 months ago by
.
Author
-
Fandom sucks the life out of things I’m afraid.
Look, satisfying storytelling is all well and good but have you considered how much more important it is that everything fits into my very specific range of desires while also being a perfect jigsaw-like fit into the broader fictional universe despite that being literally impossible?
-
-
Al will come in with some po-faced Youtube video about appropriation that we should accept as fact, despite the fact that clearly Meggan doesn’t give a shit about or she wouldn’t have done it, she doesn’t need the money and her music is very much about doing what she wants, you don’t sing WAP if you want to appease conservative advertisers.
No I won’t
That point has already been made several times.
Not being redundant and beating a dead horse!
Funny… I wanted to put in that laughing face, but my Windows
emoji thing isn’t working now but you all get the point. -
— (Not) YouTube Kids (@RealYouTubeKids) September 1, 2022
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
The first few episodes were okay. At this point, I’m just waiting for Daredevil to show up.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
At this point, I’m just waiting for Daredevil to show up.
Apparently he’s going to do the floss.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
This week was another fun one, it’s leaning into the metahumour even more, Wong sparking up a friendship with Madisynn was really cute and fun, the magicians were hilarious. And Jen wearing outsize clothes as she left her home so she could turn into She-Hulk on the way to work was a very nice visible touch
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
At this point, I’m just waiting for Daredevil to show up.
Apparently he’s going to do the floss.
Now I’ve got that image living rent-free in my head. Thanks, Dave.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
This week’s episode made me so very thankful that I don’t have to try to date these days. What a shambles.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Right, I was hoping for DD to show soon because I’m morbidly curious as to how they’ll fuck that up, but I suppose I’ll just wait until the episode comes out (something tells me it’ll be one of the last two) and I’m probably just gonna stop here ’cause this episode was dull as fuck, on top of the usual problems… although how many episodes is this supposed to be? because if it’s 8 I might as well ride it out, but if it’s 10 or more I’ll just bail…
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
because if it’s 8 I might as well ride it out, but if it’s 10 or more I’ll just bail…
To leave you in no man’s land it is 9 episodes.
The 10th episode is actually just an episode of the Sopranos with Wong and wossername doing drunken commentary.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
because if it’s 8 I might as well ride it out, but if it’s 10 or more I’ll just bail…
To leave you in no man’s land it is 9 episodes.
The 10th episode is actually just an episode of the Sopranos with Wong and wossername doing drunken commentary.
I’d legit watch that.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
The 10th episode is actually just an episode of the Sopranos with Wong and wossername doing drunken commentary.
It’s Madisynn, two Ns, one Y, but it’s not where you thiiiiiink.
5 users thanked author for this post.
-
I only just noticed in this episode what the GLK in Jen’s firm stands for. Nice. Is that carried over from Slott’s comic run? It’s been so long since I’ve read that.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
Right, I was hoping for DD to show soon because I’m morbidly curious as to how they’ll fuck that up, but I suppose I’ll just wait until the episode comes out (something tells me it’ll be one of the last two) and I’m probably just gonna stop here ’cause this episode was dull as fuck, on top of the usual problems… although how many episodes is this supposed to be? because if it’s 8 I might as well ride it out, but if it’s 10 or more I’ll just bail…
Talk about a sunken cosy fallacy. There’s nothing noble about continuing to watch a show you hate just so you can come slag it off here.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
According to Rotten Tomatoes, the show has an average audience score of 40%.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Eh, don’t worry, they’ll blame the incel men review-bombing this in 3… 2… 1…
Or the Snydercut, of course… probably the Snydercut.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Culture wars are so tedious.
Fucking preach!
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
According to Rotten Tomatoes, the show has an average audience score of 40%.
Ah yes, well-regarded as an accurate measure of quality in the universe.
-
Eh, don’t worry, they’ll blame the incel men review-bombing this in 3… 2… 1…
So you don’t think Rings of Power was actually review-bombed? Because that seems pretty convincing to me.
Conversely though, I have to admit that its 88% critics rating is almost as nonsensival. The truth lies pretty much in the middle of that. And that would, as usually, be its metacritic critic rating of 67%.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
Review bombing is of course a real thing and it’s something that can possibly backfire because if a ‘woke show’ truly is disliked by the audience nobody is going to believe the numbers. It’s also rather pointless because all any producers care about is how many eyes are watching.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
So you don’t think Rings of Power was actually review-bombed? Because that seems pretty convincing to me. Conversely though, I have to admit that its 88% critics rating is almost as nonsensival. The truth lies pretty much in the middle of that.
It’s the same old RT problem isn’t it. If a show is OK but doesn’t blow you away, and gets lukewarm reviews across the board, it would still get a 100% RT rating (or near enough) because their system allocates each review a binary good/bad categorisation and then compiles the numbers on that basis.
So 88% for LotR sounds about right. Most people have said it’s good but not (yet?) great, and I would agree with that.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
It’s also rather pointless because all any producers care about is how many eyes are watching.
I’m not sure that’s quite true for a show like LotR which has become emblematic of Amazon’s TV efforts as a whole.
They will want it to be well-received as well as well-viewed, because a positive reception not only has the potential to bring more viewers to their service but also (in this case) offers them a kind of seal of quality, after having only a handful of really breakthrough mainstream shows of this type (The Boys is maybe their biggest so far?).
For a show that they have spent so much money on and they have made such a centrepiece of their TV efforts, they will want it to be well-reviewed. As evidenced by Amazon clamping down on the malicious reviews on their own site and heavily moderating them ahead of publication.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
For a show that they have spent so much money on and they have made such a centrepiece of their TV efforts, they will want it to be well-reviewed.
Yeah but well reviewed/received is somewhat different to an easily manipulated viewer score.
Sure they would like that to be good as it will be viewed but online pressure groups skewing polls is not a new phenomenon, just one a certain group have jumped on recently. If they get good press reviews, good viewer numbers that sustain and they can measure the sign-ups then if they do take huge note of viewer polls they’d be quite foolish. I don’t think they would.
In the end if viewers truly dislike a product then they switch off. Streaming TV is always more opaque on numbers but there are things out there that are never well regarded or reviewed but carry on anyway.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
Don’t know why we’re suddenly talking about Rings of Power but okay… oh I see it has a quite similar score, interesting.
So you don’t think Rings of Power was actually review-bombed? Because that seems pretty convincing to me.
I mean, I’m sure it was review bombed, like I said, RoP has both the “anti-wokers” and the Tolkien nerds to contend with, so I’m not surprised that show’s been hammered with bad reviews. Similarly, I’m sure She-Hulk has had its fair share of review bombing by the anti-wokers, HOWEVER, it IS a MCU show, so a 40% is too low for being the result of just review bombing, imo.
But that doesn’t really matter, because I was more talking about what the narrative will be to “defend” that low score… I’m sure we’ll start seeing articles about how the “toxic male fandom” is behind it all.
because their system allocates each review a binary good/bad categorisation
But wait… isn’t the audience score an actual average of people’s ratings on RT? I was under that impression.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Similarly, I’m sure She-Hulk has had its fair share of review bombing by the anti-wokers, HOWEVER, it IS a MCU show, so a 40% is too low for being the result of just review bombing, imo.
As I said this is potentially where the bombing strategy backfires because nobody takes the viewer score seriously anymore from any direction. So if a show is genuinely disliked you’ll never get that message across.
There is actually a rough way to tell the extent to which shows are being bombed because they just started adding vote counts which reveal in truth most people can’t be bothered to leave reviews or scores on Rotten Tomatoes. Even big genre shows like House of the Dragon or The Sandman only get 4-5k votes (out of tens of millions of viewers) so the 23k for Rings of Power or the 10k for She-Hulk do look out of whack. Unfortunately as that data is new you can’t cross reference it against another MCU show to really know how much is an inflated number.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
It’s a bit more complicated than that… the MCU has a very big and passionate and on-line present fanbase… similarly the Tolkien nerds are legion are very on-line as well… so I wouldn’t discount the larger numbers either… but fair enough, I’m sure there’s a fair amount of review bombing in those numbers.
But yeah, it’s hard to trust the audience scores for these type of shows/movies… unfortunately I can say the same about the “critics” scores and reviews, because fuck me dude, a lot of them tend to be a little bit too nice to these type of properties… we all know reviewers don’t wanna risk losing their access, which these companies are more than happy to deny. It’s not even a secret at this point.
That said, having watched this show, I would agree a lot more with the 40+% than the 80+%, but hey…
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
Part of me can’t help but think that Wong didn’t need to take this to court. He could have gone to Donny Blaze and taken the sling ring back. If the writers wanted to have Wong in court, they could have had him answering for breaking Blonsky out of prison.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
I think the thing is that we have to acknowledge the different tones in MCU material. She-Hulk is pitching way more comedic than most to the extent the lead actress regards it as a sitcom, and that is true to the comics, from the second series under Byrne that has always been a comedic book.
The funniest bit in the whole series was when Wong incriminated himself and just went ‘I must depart’ and disappeared. Analysis of that kind of thing just makes any joke weaker and sitcom has a habit of setting back to the status quo each episode and She-Hulk has been stronger with a ‘case of the week’ format.
Looking at the Secret Invasion trailer that looks a lot more of a serious Winter Soldier tone of espionage and I wouldn’t give that show the same latitude at all for pushing the logic of the story.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
She-Hulk Director: Madisynn/Wong Bonus Scene Didn’t Exist in the Script
I liked the character of Madisynn. She actually made me smile and laugh. Patty Guggenheim and Benedict Wong do have good chemistry. I’d like to see her stick around with Wong. She doesn’t become a mage or anything like that. She helps Wong maintain a “work/life” balance. You see her hanging around Kamar-Taj and Bleeker Street. Madisynn, in her own way, helps the sorcerers and mages have some “normalcy” in their lives.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
He’s most known for his dramatic movies nowadays but Benedict Wong did most of his early work in comedy and sitcoms so he’s well set up for these cameos.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
And it’s not like his work as Wong in the MCU has been entirely serious so far. He’s often there to add a bit of comic relief.
True in his later appearances but having watched back Dr Strange recently Wong is quite stern and unamused as Strange played the irreverent role making pop culture references about Cher and Google Translate.
As they’ve appeared more the roles have somewhat reversed which I think suits both actors better.
-
Wow…
-
-
Wow…
Fun bit of trivia: Leon Lamar, who played Cornelius P. Willows in episode 4, is currently 104 years old, making him the oldest actor to ever appear in the MCU.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
And it’s not like his work as Wong in the MCU has been entirely serious so far. He’s often there to add a bit of comic relief.
That must be the only part ever he’s played where he can use his own Manchester accent.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
So 88% for LotR sounds about right. Most people have said it’s good but not (yet?) great, and I would agree with that.
The 88% was the She-Hulk critics’ rating though. Sorry I didn’t make that clear enough.
I’m sure She-Hulk has had its fair share of review bombing by the anti-wokers, HOWEVER, it IS a MCU show, so a 40% is too low for being the result of just review bombing, imo.
Okay, but, like, since review-bombing is currently a thing and one that’s certainly happening with She-Hulk, why wouldn’t people who like the show point that out to defend it? I get that you don’t like the show, but I think you’re building a strawman about people building strawmen. Um, if you get what I mean.
But wait… isn’t the audience score an actual average of people’s ratings on RT? I was under that impression.
I think Dave was talking about the critics’ score, and it works exactly the way he describes – it’s binary, and thus an actually lukewarm reception will look like it’s an amazing movie/show with an 88% rating (as in the case of She-Hulk). Metacritic rates the reviews on a scale, which is why their assessment is usually way more realistic. (The critics’ reviews are really all I pay attention to anyway; audience scores are always shit as far as I am concerned.)
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
A very brief rundown of review bombing and social media postings:
She Hulk and the twerking scene
Remarks about every MCU heroine from Black Widow to Danvers
Star Wars and that black woman on the Obi Wan show
Complaints about diversity on LOTR
The Disney mermaid
The black woman in the last James Bond movieThere is a serious racist, anti woman, gatekeeping thing going on…
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
A very brief rundown of review bombing and social media postings:
She Hulk and the twerking scene
Remarks about every MCU heroine from Black Widow to Danvers
Star Wars and that black woman on the Obi Wan show
Complaints about diversity on LOTR
The Disney mermaid
The black woman in the last James Bond movieThere is a serious racist, anti woman, gatekeeping thing going on…
The trouble is, these complaints have got attention because they have been focused on by so many people (including the media companies themselves) and amplified on social media.
But I think the idea that it represents mainstream views on this stuff is overstated. Really these complaints represent the views of only a very small extreme minority of viewers, and honestly I think they’d be better off ignored.
Unfortunately, there’s a growing trend of media firms seizing on these complaints as a sort of badge of honour – the idea that if we’re pissing off these people then we must be doing something right – as part of promotion for these shows and movies.
What that does is then draw additional attention to the complaints and make that a focus of discussion. And obviously the media love to seize on a big controversial debate and push that angle, so it snowballs.
And so you get to the point where a huge amount of exposure is being given to these aspects, to the point that even audiences that don’t give two shits about black hobbits or twerking hulks end up getting drawn into it too, and encouraged to pick a side in the argument. It becomes inescapable as part of the conversation around the show. All stemming from a very small minority of extreme viewpoints that somehow come to dominate the discussion.
It’s all part of the culture war nonsense that infects so much debate at the moment, and really it’s very tiresome. I don’t think many people really feel that strongly about stupid stuff like the twerking; I also don’t think many people are strongly against diverse casting; but as ever, the loud, argumentative, extreme voices get a disproportionate share of the attention.
And unfortunately you can’t be too cynical about this stuff. This focus on the fringe racists and bigots is clearly a part of the media firms’ promotional strategy for these things these days, and is seen as an active part of getting audiences onside – by suggesting that if you want to stand against the racists then you should support the show.
Ultimately though I think that when it comes down to it, a lot of this disposable light entertainment stuff just isn’t substantial enough to support these big arguments. With a bit of time and perspective it’s easy to see what a storm in a teacup it all is.
(Remember all the fuss with the female-led Ghostbusters movie, that became a massive argument about sexism and misogyny and you had packs of people tearing the film down and packs saying it was brilliant? Now that the dust has settled it all feels a bit silly and overblown for what was just a middling comedy franchise film that happened to star women.)
I’m hopeful that we’ll be able to look back on this period as a bit of a silly time when people got very worked up about fringe extreme critics who said some horrible things about some movies and TV shows, but which ultimately all blew over once people decided not to give it all the oxygen of publicity.
Because if it sticks around and becomes the standard approach to discussing this stuff, it’s going to push away reasonable people who just want to discuss movies and TV shows without everything having to be a massive politicised argument.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
I’m pretty much convinced its the same, small group of trolls. There’s been some studies too that seem to back this up, that the majority of hate content is from a small group. One giveaway is, no matter what it may be, books, comics, games, TV, it’s always the same bullshit arguments.
You could try arguing that AC Odyssey overdoes the female empowerment angle since, as Kassandra, you can perfectly tight rope crouch walk while lugging a knocked out or dead 200+lb Greek soldier on your shoulders…. Except you can do that as Alexios too.
Trans rights is one of the latest blow-ups. On Twitter the battle lines are drawn, politicians are throwing out meat to the mob, but outside of it? It isn’t reflected more widely.
But while both politicians and media companies continue to amplify and boost it, it’ll continue to be a problem.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
There is a serious racist, anti woman, gatekeeping thing going on…
I think Dave said it very well, so I’ll just agree and say nah, it’s just being overly-amplified by the current clickbait practises in media, on both sides of course… money is money on the left and the right and on every direction.
-
Okay, but, like, since review-bombing is currently a thing and one that’s certainly happening with She-Hulk, why wouldn’t people who like the show point that out to defend it? I get that you don’t like the show, but I think you’re building a strawman about people building strawmen. Um, if you get what I mean.
But I’m not talking about the “people” defending it… I’m talking about Disney defending it (via hit-pieces, like they, i.e. all companies, do). It’s not a strawman when it literally happens all the time… come on.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
But I think the idea that it represents mainstream views on this stuff is overstated. Really these complaints represent the views of only a very small extreme minority of viewers, and honestly I think they’d be better off ignored.
Yes very much so.
It is the point I made about RT now publishing the numbers. So for the latest Game of Thrones you had around 4,000 viewer ratings in the first week, HBO revealed 10 million broadcast ratings in just the USA. You add every other country in the world and ‘on demand’ viewing later it would be a conservative estimate to double that. It’s such an insignificant number (4,000 out of 20,000,000) that if I could demand everyone who ever visits this little niche forum vote it up or down we could influence a percentage here or there.
Internet voting influence is and always has been bullshit, I saw my former employer spend tens of millions on Linux pre-loaded PCs that dominated their customer requests and nobody bought them. Linux had a lot of fanboys, who love to tinker and have no desire to buy pre-loaded systems, and used their forums to push an ideology nobody actually wanted practically. Not even them.
In the end the bottom line is all that counts. Hollywood said for years you can’t have a black lead in Asia, it would be rejected, they made Black Panther and it made massive box office in China.
4 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
No mid or post-credit scene this week so people can skip the end. Another fun one, but not as funny as the last couple of weeks. Titania was just sort of there, and the biggest laugh for me was the boba shop and the bootleg Avongers/Avingers merch.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
Weird there was no mid-credit scene. You’d think they’d want consistency with that. I guess maybe they thought the DD tease was enough to end on, but a little comedy bit with, say, Jen’s cousin selling the She-Hulk merch could have worked.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
No… I will NOT rehash the trademarking stuff…LOL
The show is what it is… I take it that it upsets those who want serious plot advancement.
WandaVision seemed to “meander” in the beginning and then it came around in the end.
The banter of Jennifer and her friends talking about the guys in the dating scene… Upsets the fanboys who aren’t into clubs, the dating scene, rap/hip hop, and having fun twerking in private. LOL!
That designer gave me these “Devil Wears Prada” vibes.
That last scene of what was in that box!
——————————-
Masalny has a cute smile.
Jameela Jamil who plays Titania… She has been through a lot.
I read her Wikipedia snippets and she is an activist against these damaging diet pills pushed on teen girls, and online she goes after these female celebs like the Kardashians, Cardi B, and so on who are promoting almost impossible beauty and body standards.
More power to her… -
That last scene of what was in that box!
4 users thanked author for this post.
-
I am caught up now and I actually like all of the episodes better than the first one. The show itself works well enough, I like the characters and enough of the jokes land that I feel entertained. Loved Tim Roth’s appearance.
I don’t know if I’d be watching if it wasn’t Marvel superheroes though. Probably not; it’s just too average a sitcom.
One thing that stood out as a bit weird to me was that it felt a bit like characters like Pug and Mallory are supposed to mean more to us than they do. Especially that moment when Jennifer says to Mallory “I am so glad that we’re friends now!” (and Mallory’s reaction) – that was weird given how up to that episode, she had like two sentences in random scenes.I’ll keep watching the show, and not just for completism’s sake. I’m having fun with it.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
The lack of Daredevil was a bit disappointing after the tease last week, but it was a fun episode.
Seems fairly obvious now they’re setting up the Leader for the end of the season. I really like the idea of positioning him as pseudo-Jordan Peterson. Super-powered incel MRA asshole is a perfect villain for She-Hulk and a good way to use the Leader.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
Yeah, Jen should have just Hulked out and leaped out of that ridiculous wedding.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
-
Still no Daredevil, but a very fun episode. Loved the group of characters at Abomination’s retreat. Including El Aguila! One of those odd minor characters I have an unfounded fondness for.
They seem to be leaving a lot for the last episode. Though I’m starting to wonder if they’re just trolling with Daredevil and he won’t actually be in it. That would be quite funny.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
-
For some reason there’s nine.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
Caught up on the last 3 episodes. The therapy retreat one was the best, written by Zeb Wells so I guess comics creators can make some money out of the MCU. They did quite well in me really wanting Josh to be genuine even if he wasn’t, I think that’s down to Maslany being so likeable as Jen.
I think I’m in the same place as Christian, I’m enjoying it well enough but if it weren’t an MCU show it’s unlikely I would have watched it.
Only 3 left, so given the last few scenes, I take it now that things will get more serious.
I doubt it to be honest. This is pitched by the cast as a sitcom, I’m sure they will up the stakes for a finale with whoever the lab guy is (the Leader perhaps as Martin suggests) but I think the tone of the show is firmly set as comedic.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
I think I’m in the same place as Christian, I’m enjoying it well enough but if it weren’t an MCU show it’s unlikely I would have watched it.
I do wonder whether there’s a point at which these shows will dwindle for Disney+, as a meaningful number of people who watch some of these shows just to keep up with the MCU (rather than because they’re particularly good in their own right) decide that it’s not worth the time any more.
For me, that MCU break-point came a while back when I skipped Eternals because the trailers looked so underwhelming and the reviews were so mediocre, and then never went back to it (even when it was “free” on Disney+) as the interest just wasn’t there for me.
Since then, I’ve tried the latest MCU shows as they’ve launched, but have often dropped them midway through – in Ms Marvel’s case it was well-made with a likeable lead but just not a show with real appeal to me; and in She-Hulk’s case it was because I thought the writing and stories were so mediocre (again, despite the lead being likeable and charming).
I do get that there’s a big element of “keeping up” with some of these shows, especially when they feed back into the MCU movies as they do now. But just as I don’t feel compelled to read every Marvel or DC comic to enjoy some of their stuff, I’m at that same point with the MCU now. That completist mindset has gone for me.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
It will be a risk with ever increasing output.
Personally I already skipped the completist part , I found Falcon and Winter Soldier deathly boring so never finished it.
What they are still getting is my attention to watch. I do like She-Hulk, if I didn’t I’d just not bother but equally if it weren’t MCU it’s doubtful I would have seen the first one. (I don’t really gravitate towards US live action sitcoms, I seriously think the last one I watched regularly was Taxi 😂)
-
I think my problem is that the various series are becoming a bit too superficial. While they have enjoyable qualities, I really am ready for something more. I fell like I’ve been fed a steady diet of candy. While it is fun in the beginning, I’m very ready for some meat and potatoes. While Falcon and the Winter Soldier was far from perfect, I do appreciate it trying to be more serious in its story and themes. I would like some weightier writing in some upcoming series.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Nothing has really had the weight of the Netflix series. Even the best ones – WandaVision, Ms Marvel and Loki – haven’t really been as impactful or accomplished as Daredevil or Jessica Jones were.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
This week’s ep was easily the best one so far, very fun.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
Personally I already skipped the completist part , I found Falcon and Winter Soldier deathly boring so never finished it.
Same here. I bypassed some MCU movies like GotG, Antman, the little Marvel girl (She is a mutant!). No one is obligated to
watch every second. I saw this Tweet that no one is obligated to watch all the Star Wars content, but to think of it as a buffet where you pick want you want to your plate. Sounds reasonable to me.As for Jennifer Walters… I am surprised she didn’t pick up on that line “taking your blood’ during that group session.
I want that Asian guy who was in on the whole thing (copied stuff to his phone on his way out) to really get his.
I want him, that d*ck male lawyer, to get really theirs for messing with her.And I want Murdock! (Why are there only two lawyers who are superheroes in the Marvel Universe? 🤣)
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
Yeah, I’m more talking about the risk of getting to the point where people don’t tune into this stuff at all, let alone finishing it all the to the end. The point at which a show being part of the MCU doesn’t provide a reason, in and of itself, for people to watch something they wouldn’t have otherwise bothered with, like you said about She-Hulk.
Having at least tried pretty much everything MCU in the past (albeit that only extending to the first episode of some of the Netflix shows), Eternals was the first MCU thing I just didn’t bother with at all. And having at least started all the Disney+ shows but found most of them pretty average overall, I’m not sure I’m even going to be there for all the opening episodes any more.
It feels to me like this is all part of the plan. She-Hulk and Ms Marvel are deliberately targeting specific demographics – I am sure Marvel are well aware that not everybody from their superhero movie audience will tune in for a female teen superhero and a lawyer sitcom. I think it’s about diversification, and we just aren’t the target audience for these shows.
Maybe that’s where it’s going to go – having “small” shows for specific audiences (that aren’t very expensive) and “big” show events that try to reach everybody and directly tie into the movies (which I expect Secret Invasion will be). You won’t be expected to be caught up with every show anymore (just like you can’t read every Marvel book on the stands), but you’ll tune in for the big events and crossovers.
-
-
Disney really aren’t pouring money into MCU shows that are only designed to be watched by young kids or millennial women or whatever.
You can kind of be both though.
A lot of Marvel material is 4 quadrant stuff to appeal to everyone but you can focus more specifically and not really be niche. Say things like Sex and the City or High School Musical have very large audiences even if targeted at a specific demographic. If we think about it too a lot of the expensive action shows have a specific target demographic too, it’s just we’re often part of it.
An interesting question too is how much of the audience does follow everything or feel the need to. Using pre Covid/post Avengers movies to have a fair comparison the US box office of Black Panther is nearly double that of Thor: Ragnarok, so you’d have to assume a decent proportion of the audience are not checking out everything.
Either way you look at it you are right the most important element is being able to follow the material standalone or as a completist. I think they have the right emphasis so far that the completists get enjoyment from little references or appearances but the rest can enjoy. An example is I skipped Falcon and Winter Soldier, but I’ve read enough to know Sam takes up the Cap mantle at the end, however that is also where Avengers: Endgame leaves it with Steve handing over the shield so when the next Captain America movie comes it would make sense either way.
-
Either way you look at it you are right the most important element is being able to follow the material standalone or as a completist. I think they have the right emphasis so far that the completists get enjoyment from little references or appearances but the rest can enjoy. An example is I skipped Falcon and Winter Soldier, but I’ve read enough to know Sam takes up the Cap mantle at the end, however that is also where Avengers: Endgame leaves it with Steve handing over the shield so when the next Captain America movie comes it would make sense either way.
Definitely. I think they tend to be good at that.
Given that the current phase(s) of the MCU movies are so focused on the multiverse, it will be interesting to see if they can maintain that balance with so many potentially confusing elements (multiple universes/earths, variant versions of the same characters etc.) added to the mix.
Maybe it will end up like the middle section of Dr Strange 2, with clear sections that are there to chuck in a load of cameos and easter eggs for the dedicated fans, but which are kept relatively self-contained and don’t interfere with following the overall plot for the more casual viewer.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
It’s an interesting idea, but I don’t know if you could sell that to the people at Disney+ who are pretty desperate for their shows to drive sales of the service.
It’s still an area though we are feeling out really. If you look at Netflix they still have the lions share of subscribers for scripted content and documentary (the Disney+ claims the other day that they’d passed were not convincing as a quarter of them were subscribers to watch cricket in India on a service they bought and ESPN viewers globally). Partly probably because they started first but also they churn out a massive volume of content for all kinds of audiences, romcoms, sci-fi shows, true crime, anime originals, foreign language shows, pre-school and little kids etc. Some of it isn’t great, a lot they barely publicise but the volume keeps flowing. There ‘new this week’ section right now has 40 different shows and movies.
If we look at households as well as individuals it makes it harder to cancel because of the something for everyone element. Disney+ itself is only standalone product in the US (and maybe Canada), in Europe and Asia it is packaged with the Hulu/ABC content in one portal and it looks like the US is moving towards that soon. They are both starting ad supported versions.
So the question is whether it is more valuable to have big tentpole productions to attract viewers or a large quantity and range of material to justify the keeping up the monthly payments? I suspect it’s a bit of both and even the streamers themselves are pondering the balance and working out the patterns.
It would be easier for Marvel to put out a lot of shows like Hawkeye that follow the standard wisecracking action of most of the movies but they aren’t, the shows are quite distinct. Some complained here that Ms Marvel had too much teen angst drama and not enough superhero action but I think that’s because it was made for the YA audience. As to be honest was the comic, it’s very faithful that way.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
Disney+ itself is only standalone product in the US (and maybe Canada), in Europe and Asia it is packaged with the Hulu/ABC content in one portal and it looks like the US is moving towards that soon. They are both starting ad supported versions.
HBO Max and Discovery+ will combine into one platform next year. I could see Disney and Hulu formerly doing that as well. Those combined platforms will put them in a better position to compete directly with Netflix.
I am not sure if they would include ESPN in a merged platform. I have seen rumors of Disney wanting to sell it off. Sports has been one of the areas that has struggled in the streaming platforms. I think a big issue is the licensing and rights tied to the various leagues. I’m sure as various contracts come up for renewal, this will be addressed.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
I could see Disney and Hulu formerly doing that as well.
They’ve already announced that package will be the norm in a couple of months and I’d expect full integration onto one homepage/app by next year.
Agreed ESPN may be an outlier. This part is also still up in the air and being assessed. Amazon have moved into live sport, they have paid for tennis, football and rugby in Europe. Netflix have dug their heels in that live events are not in their model but they have compromised recently, I saw another trail of an original today they are not dumping in one block.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Everything with Jen and Matt/Daredevil was insanely charming, Tatiana Maslany and Charlie Cox have incredible chemistry on-screen and their banter was a ton of fun. Leap Frog was hilarious as well. The end was a bit eh, but it’s kind of a mix of it being a bit stupid but also a bit too believable as the kind of thing that could happen these days
Also, no mid or post credit scene again.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
Charlie Cox continues to be excellent and I agree that he and Jen together are great. That walk of shame moment was brilliant.
I’m starting to suspect entitled Wakandan spear client guy is behind the Intelligencia. Seems a bit odd putting him in this episode if not.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.