Don’t think there’s a thread for this yet? I won’t be seeing it for a while but have at it…
Shang-Chi (SPOILER discussion)
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I saw it this afternoon.
I should preface this by saying I haven’t read a huge amount of stuff with Shang Chi in, so maybe it’s my own fault here but this wasn’t really what I expecting it to be.
I figured it’d be urban martial arts featuring a strong element of a big criminal empire with an inescapable reach, which it flirts with (quite well). But then it turns into Raya and the Last Dragon (I assume – I’ve not actually seen that yet). Is that an established part of Shang Chi I’ve managed to miss? It felt like they took Shang Chi, grafted on bits of Iron Fist and Agents of Atlas and then tailored it to pander directly at the Chinese market.And look, I’m not saying that’s a bad plan or anything, it’s just not what I expected nor, frankly, what I was particularly interested in. It started out pretty well, but when it gets to pseudo-Shangri-La I found myself losing interest, especially when it degenerated into a gloomy, CGI heavy mess.
It has other problems too. Katy randomly being good at archery didn’t really come from anywhere or tie into her previous characterisation. I found myself spending a lot of time trying to work out the timeline of the film and honestly, as much as I like Simu Liu, he does not pass for 24.
I like the visualisation of the ten rings, and the telekinetic stuff, but that being pretty much their only deal is underwhelming and it just turns into more CGI for the mire.
I was really not prepared for Morris and after the fun reveal of Trevor, it immediately felt like the film had jumped the shark.
So yeah, despite a decent opening, this is, for me, easily one of the weakest Marvel Studio films and not one I’ll be rushing to see again.
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I enjoyed it, though the first half was much better than the second, when it all got too CGI-y.
Loved Shang and Awkwafina together, though I don’t get why they didn’t just have her be Shang’s love interest (or Xialing’s love interest). Slightly weird Wong brought her along rather than the sister who he already knows at the end.
Tony Leung Chiu-wai: Good actor! I thought his death was a bit disappointing, given how much the movie had built him up. The actual villain being just some otherworldly evil thing we know nothing about didn’t work for me though.
Glad I wasn’t spoiled on the returning characters. Very happy Trevor came back, and The Abomination showing up is the most excited I’ve ever been for anything related to The Incredible Hulk. Always happy when Wong shows up for five minutes. Make that money, Benedict Wong.
I’m glad the MCU connections were mostly cameos, aside from the Iron Man 3 follow-up. I much prefer when these movies do their own things than the constant crossover, and this is the first one since Black Panther to do that.
The fights in the first half were definitely a big step up from what I’ve come to expect from the MCU. Brad Allan, RIP.
Slightly odd there was no Eternals tease in this (unless I missed it). Still no idea what that movie will be, two months out.
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The actual villain being just some otherworldly evil thing we know nothing about didn’t work for me though.
I was really expecting it to be Fing Fang Foom. That would have had some thematic connection to the source material. Instead it was… whatever that thing was.
I agree about Katy should have just been Shang’s girlfriend. The “we’re only friends” thing just didn’t really add anything when it was upturned at the end seemingly just because that’s what happens to two heterosexual friends at the end of movies.
I also didn’t really see the value of that scene where Shang admits that he killed his target. It just doesn’t change anything. It doesn’t have any impact on the successive fight. It could have been cut and made no difference. I was really expecting his target to turn out to be Katy’s granddad.
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I enjoyed it a lot. Liked it way more than you two probably did. Just thought it was entertaining throughout. For me it was one of marvel’s funner outings. The third act is definitely weaker than the rest but it didn’t bother me. And the action in the first half of the movie is much better than most marvel movies. Plus I just loved the cast. I hope the pandemic doesn’t hinder performance enough for marvel to second guess investing in the franchise.
oh, also my girlfriend loved it. Has been raving about it since we walked out. Though we both fully admit some of the enjoyment is that it’s the first movie we’ve seen in a theater in a year and a half.
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When I saw that Simu Liu had been cast as Shang Chi, I was afraid this would be a Disney version of a martial arts movie. And it pretty much was. Based on the previews, I knew it really wouldn’t be true to the comics. Shang Chi is a lot darker and broodier in the comics. I always saw him looking like Bruce Lee, especially with the body build. He was always more of a street level character though being in the Marvel Universe, he would occasionally get sucked into superhero tomfoolery.
For what it was, it was entertaining. I just couldn’t get into it because Shang Chi and the “Mandarin” had been so radically changed. While most MCU versions have changes made, they have pretty much maintained the core essences of the characters. Long time comic book readers recognize them not just on a visual level, but also on a character level. For the first time, I did not feel that with the characters in Shang Chi. They felt too altered for me. There was so much potential to do something bold and explore different parts of the MCU. Instead, they leaned into the established rut.
I will say that the “Mandarin” is probably one of the MCU’s most developed villains. Tony Leung brought a great depth to the character and I liked that his motivations were personal and human. A pity they killed him as I would like to have seen more of him.
For me, I thought it was an okay movie but I just couldn’t connect with it. It just didn’t feel like Shang Chi to me and that hampered my enjoyment of the movie.
Christel really enjoyed it and said it was one of her favorite MCU movies.
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Christel really enjoyed it and said it was one of her favorite MCU movies.
I heard Christel on the phone this morning with her mom saying how much she loved the movie and would see it again if given the opportunity.
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this is incredible:
(have not seen the movie yet, am waiting for it to hit Disney plus which I totally subscribe to. Honest!)
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Slightly odd there was no Eternals tease in this (unless I missed it). Still no idea what that movie will be, two months out.
I thought the end scene with Wong/Carol/Bruce saying “something is being signalled” was a tie in to the Celestials coming (but maybe this is because the Eternals trailer played right before Shang Chi so that was in my mind).
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I will say that the “Mandarin” is probably one of the MCU’s most developed villains. Tony Leung brought a great depth to the character and I liked that his motivations were personal and human. A pity they killed him as I would like to have seen more of him.
Because they obviously wouldn’t use Fu Manchu (even if they were allowed to), I thought they would completely change Shang Chi’s origin for the worse. But the replacement father was actually an improvement. Because, honestly, Fu Manchu was always one-dimensionally evil, while the replacement had more depth and you could even sympathise with him a lot of the time, but it took nothing away from Shang’s origin. Good choice, I thought. And a great actor to play him.
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‘Shang-Chi’ Ruling Box Office In Third Weekend With $21M+ – Sunday Update
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So yeah, it’s out on the high seas, so might as well revive this thread.
I agree with most of what was said above… this is very much a Diseny-fied version of a chinese kung-fu epic… well after the first third, that is.
For what it is, it’s okay I suppose, it’s obviously well made, well choreagraphed, (mostly) well acted, great production values, etc… but this really felt like a Disney flick rather than a MCU flick for sure. It’s very much what I thought it’d be, as in male Mulan, but with the usual MCU boring CGI 3rd act, all with a faceless army and sky beams and CGI monsters… they’re still doing that shit, I see… I’m guessing the Eternals is gonna be more of the same.
Anyhow, I can see how and why A LOT of people liked this, specially the younger people who have probably not been as exposed as us older peeps to asian cinema, because to me it was a mish-mash of stuff I’ve already seen many many MANY times already, albeit to be fair, it is very well made, it’s a rather good taste of what that type of movie can offer in terms of visuals and choreography.
Other than that… nah, not for me… I still can’t see Simu Liu as Shang Chi, but then again, this wasn’t even Shang Chi… again, literally boy Mulan, a Disney Prince, and it that regard, sure, he did a good job… plus the guy is a competent actor and obviously good a the kung fu stuff.
I would’ve prefered something a bit more gritty and street-level, and sure enough, the 1st third delivers, somewhat, on that a lot more than the rest. I’d probably only revisit the fights in the movie, and not even all of them tbh.
Kinda funny they used Trevor, because as much as Trevor wasn’t “the real” Mandarin, yeah to me these were neither Shang Chi or the Mandarin for that matter. I dunno, I don’t wanna knock it down too much because it’s techincally an okay movie, but it’s soooooooooooooooooo Disney/MCU formulaic that in the end it’s just “another one”. I mean, sure, it has kung fu, yay… that’s not enough for me to say that it “offered something new to the MCU”, because it just didn’t… it just offered some cool kung-fu sequences… the rest was the usual Marvel snore-fest.
Edit: Oh a fun bit I noticed, in the first few seconds of the movie, when you see ring-guy’s army (what’s his name again?), if you pause it, you can see they basically used the same 5 or 6 people’s faces and copy pasted them all over the army… very lazy… and racist lol =P
Edit 2: Oh shit, and I forgot one thing… sooo the movie is called “Shang Chi and the legend of the ten rings” right? So first of all… I’m sorry, those weren’t rings, those are bracelets and fuck you movie for trying to gaslight me. And secondly: Uhmm… where was the “legend of the ten rings” bit?? They never explore the lore of the damned bracelets…
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Maybe this is just a sign of me getting old but, upon finally seeing this one, the movie should more accurately be called Wenwu And The Legend Of The Two Irritating Kids.
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He’s a special kinda guy.
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I just couldn’t get into it because Shang Chi and the “Mandarin” had been so radically changed.
The Mandarin has always been a big problem for them. He’s a product of his time and it leans very heavily into the ‘yellow peril’ origins of Fu Manchu which is nothing this film would want to touch with a barge pole. We had the fake-out with Trevor Slattery and now this version.
That doesn’t really play a part in the rings being replaced with bracelets but I can see the visual element worked well there.
Similarly you imagine Shang Chi as Bruce Lee because essentially the entire comic concept was riffing off his popularity in the 1970s. Kevin Feige is big on using source material where he can but similarly the Luke Cage we saw in the Netflix show and if he shows in the MCU will always be a lot more Bendis’ 2000s reading of it than the ‘sweet Christmas’ 70s take.
As to the film, it’s OK. A mid level MCU origin pic that does the job. I saw it today on Disney+ as cinemas here won’t allow kids yet.
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The Mandarin has always been a big problem for them. He’s a product of his time and it leans very heavily into the ‘yellow peril’ origins of Fu Manchu which is nothing this film would want to touch with a barge pole. We had the fake-out with Trevor Slattery and now this version.
It’s kind of a shame they turned the Ben Kingsley Mandarin into a joke… at the time, I really liked the twist, it was early MCU and the pattern of fucking things up for the sake of a joke wasn’t as clear as it is now, but with hindsight… ouch… maybe it would’ve aged better if they hadn’t abused that same trick over and over and over again…
But anyways, the point is, it IS a shame because I thought that depiction of the Mandarin was absolutely brilliant. Kingsley has an asian flavour to him, but he’s obviously more indian than chinese, so he kind of avoided the trappings of the original in that regard (except the name maybe, which could be explained somehow, so not a biggie). And his design was fuckin amazing:
He kinda looks like one of those crazy extravangant Far Cry terrorist villains… He looks what I imagine Gengis Khan would look like today, extravagant and absolutely batshit insane.
So yeah, in hindsight it was a bad idea to turn him into a joke, specially in favour of Killian. And unfortunately, the new doesn’t work either, plus turning him into Shang Chi’s dad is kinda weird too.
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turning him into Shang Chi’s dad is kinda weird too.
I thought that was quite a decent idea really. Shang-Chi’s built around having a crime lord father but obviously Fu Manchu’s off the board. The Mandarin was pretty much originally a yellow peril character in the style of Fu Manchu originally. It’s a solid pairing.
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We watched it on Disney+ last night and had a great time!
I acknowledge this is not the Shang Chi I grew up with in the 70s comics, but SO WHAT?! I accept that the MCU is a completely different species from the comics that Marvel has been publishing since the early 1960s, and that Fiege’s crew picks and chooses what they want from the various stories and characters and events that have occurred over the past 60+ years. It is virtually impossible to faithfully recreate the comics for the big screen, so they need to decide what to keep and what to toss. So if the Mandarin, whose original appearance in the comics would be an unnecessary insult to a large section today, gets tossed, that’s a sensible decision.
I’ve said before that all I want from a Marvel Cinematic Universe film is to be entertained for 2+ hours and to not have my intelligence insulted. As far as I’m concerned (and as far as my non-comics-reading wife is concerned), Marvel has successfully hit that mark. Again.
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turning him into Shang Chi’s dad is kinda weird too.
I thought that was quite a decent idea really. Shang-Chi’s built around having a crime lord father but obviously Fu Manchu’s off the board. The Mandarin was pretty much originally a yellow peril character in the style of Fu Manchu originally. It’s a solid pairing.
I always thought creating a character with ties to a licensed property is short-sighted. Tying Shang-Chi to Fu Manchu hindered the character,at least as far as reprints went. Never mind that Marvel already had two Fu Manchu types that they owned outright: the Mandarin and the Yellow Claw. In fact, wasn’t the Yellow Claw having something of resurgence in the ’70s?
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What a Bing search turned up:
https://www.cbr.com/shang-chi-fu-manchu-public-domain/2/
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turning him into Shang Chi’s dad is kinda weird too.
I thought that was quite a decent idea really. Shang-Chi’s built around having a crime lord father but obviously Fu Manchu’s off the board. The Mandarin was pretty much originally a yellow peril character in the style of Fu Manchu originally. It’s a solid pairing.
I always thought creating a character with ties to a licensed property is short-sighted. Tying Shang-Chi to Fu Manchu hindered the character,at least as far as reprints went. Never mind that Marvel already had two Fu Manchu types that they owned outright: the Mandarin and the Yellow Claw. In fact, wasn’t the Yellow Claw having something of resurgence in the ’70s?
To be fair, they probably weren’t even thinking about trades and collections way back then. A lot of the licensed properties were directly tied into Marvel continuity like Micronauts and Rom.
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I’m not too familiar with Shang Chi, but yeah, I suppose if his father is rather important to his stories, sure… replacing Fu Manchu with the Mandarin makes some sense I guess… but considering how he’s basically Shang Chi just in name, it’s a bit weird that they kept the whole father thing… that was more my point… but I guess it being a Disney movie and all, of course they wanted it to be about familiy
Also, now that I think about it, the father isn’t really the Mandarin anyways, so I suppose the argument could be made that they just took bits of both the Mandarin (connection via the ten rings) and Fu Machu (paternal connection) to create that new character.
Oh also, yet another MCU movie where the hero has to fight against his “dark reflection”… fuckin hell… there’s a trope that needs to die.
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I liked this less than the Eternals.
Awkafina and Shang’s sister were almost completely useless. Is the Actress that played his sister a big star in Asia?
While watching it, it felt like it was trying to be one of the old Kung Fu movies I watched as a kid but that is not a compliment. I thought Asian Cinema has progressed a lot since then but maybe it is a style audiences over there appreciate.
I always like Michele Yeoh and Wong so that was a plus. Simu and Tony Leung did okay too.
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While watching it, it felt like it was trying to be one of the old Kung Fu movies I watched as a kid
I thought it was more like the relatively recent slew of martial-arts-fantasy films that came out in the past 20 years or so, like CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON or HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS, beginning with the early scene of the forest moving to try to stop Wenwu from finding Ta Lo.
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I will say of the Marvel movies I’ve seen to date (haven’t seen Eternals yet), this one felt the most Disney. It didn’t feel like it was part of the MCU to me. If you change the character names and drop the MCU references, it would be a generic live action Disney movie.
I wanted early Bruce Lee but got late-career Jackie Chan.
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Was it insulting to Chinese culture and folklore?
My Chinese wife wasn’t insulted; in fact, when Shang first arrived at Ta Lo and we saw the unusual creatures, she commented that many of them looked familiar from images she saw in books and other sources from her childhood.
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Was it insulting to Chinese culture and folklore?
My Chinese wife wasn’t insulted; in fact, when Shang first arrived at Ta Lo and we saw the unusual creatures, she commented that many of them looked familiar from images she saw in books and other sources from her childhood.
Good to know….
I just mentioned it because there have been past movies and shows on other cultures and the people from there ( the genuine article) just shake their heads and do face palm about the portrayal.
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Was it insulting to Chinese culture and folklore?
My wife is Chinese too, she really enjoyed it.
We have to be careful not to analyse stuff to try and find offence, if you do you will but intent is really more important than nitpicking.
Are there tropes? Most probably but Downton Abbey also has tropes about posh Brits in the 1920s. We have to be careful of a situation where we demand a level of purity that it’s easier not to bother making it. Then you kick yourself in the ass.
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Got around to watching this.
Wenwu was a moron but fun seeing Trev back and any film with Michelle Yeoh in a martial arts role is always going to be good.
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I saw this one in the cinema, and I kinda loved it. Yeah, there was some dumb stuff like Awkwafina’s character becoming an excellent archer in a day, but overall, it was just a great fun kung fu movie (that bus scene was awesome!) mixed with one of the lighter, funnier Marvel movies. And while the whole father-son-daughter dynamic was a bit weird, Tony Chiu-Wai Leung is great and sold his character perfectly.
Just thoroughly enjoyable. And I loved Trevor Slattery’s return!
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I finally watched it. The first third was ok, the second thirsd was boring, the last third was the usual CGI crap.
If you make a movie about a kung-fu hero, and the final battle is between a CGI dragon and a CGI demon, and gets resolved by mystic energies and magic handwaving, then you are doing something wrong.
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they are not really that legendary. they are much larger than the rings from the books.
They HAVE to be legendary; it says so in the movie title!!
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