Random thread of randomness
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The wife of my friend is involved in a local farming initiative where people can subscribe to the farm’s produce, you pay a one time amount that makes you share in the ownership of the farm and then you pay a weekly amount for a food packet (mostly vegetables, potatoes, fruit perhaps and maybe at some point also meat and/or dairy). It’s an interesting initiative, they really do seem passionate about their approach to farming, but I get the impression it’s not really a substitute for all the food you get at the supermarket, in total it is just a small share of your normal consumption. It is more like a supplement. However it is just starting up. I ask about it regularly, but it seems all a bit chaotic at the moment.
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Smith should have walked up to Rock and calmly said, “My wife suffers from a medical condition that has caused her to lose her hair. YOU made a documentary about the importance of black people and their hair, so you of all people should know this is a sensitive subject. That joke was hurtful and insensitive. You owe my beautiful wife Jada an apology.”
If he had done that then won his Oscar, he would have been a fucking hero and everyone would be singing his praises. It would have been one of the greatest moments in Oscar history. Smith would be celebrated and his star would have risen even higher.
And everyone would be looking at Rock as the unfunny prick that he is. All of the pressure would have been on Rock to do the right thing.
Instead, we got a fucking slap.
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In the end, it really is insignificant. These are celebrities with a bloated sense of self-importance and undeserved influence behaving in ways that would embarrass ten year olds.
the Oscars are a commercial for Hollywood glamour and this just undercuts that showing us they are occasionally petty and stupid people even more so than everyone else that isn’t famous.
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Is this better or worse than the time John Wayne had to be restrained from assaulting a 17-year old girl at the Oscars in 1973?
Yes
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Todd’s point above is the way any reasonable person should have responded.
however, the good thing is that this shows – and we’re constantly reminded but the glamour seems to make us forget – that celebrities and “influencers” don’t deserve to to be given much actual influence.
If your kids get into trouble, they aren’t going to call Will Smith about it. It’s your responsibility to be the role model.
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Smith should have walked up to Rock and calmly said, “My wife suffers from a medical condition that has caused her to lose her hair. YOU made a documentary about the importance of black people and their hair, so you of all people should know this is a sensitive subject. That joke was hurtful and insensitive. You owe my beautiful wife Jada an apology.”
If he had done that then won his Oscar, he would have been a fucking hero and everyone would be singing his praises. It would have been one of the greatest moments in Oscar history. Smith would be celebrated and his star would have risen even higher.
And everyone would be looking at Rock as the unfunny prick that he is. All of the pressure would have been on Rock to do the right thing.
Instead, we got a fucking slap.
I think this is admirable in theory, but I also think that it’s fairly implausible that Smith (or anyone) would deliver such an articulate and restrained response on the spot and in the heat of the moment.
People keep saying that Smith’s behaviour is especially shocking given that it took place during the global live broadcast of the Oscars, and it is – but I can’t help but feel that if anything, that weird heightened situation probably contributed to his response, and he reacted irrationally, in the moment, in a way that he never would if he’d had a moment to really think about what he was doing.
That doesn’t excuse his actions one bit, and I’m not saying that everyone would have done the same as he did. But I’m not sure that an elegant, articulate put-down was ever going to happen in those circumstances.
At best he probably should have held off reacting in the moment, and criticised the joke afterwards with a cooler head.
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In the end, it really is insignificant. These are celebrities with a bloated sense of self-importance and undeserved influence behaving in ways that would embarrass ten year olds.
the Oscars are a commercial for Hollywood glamour and this just undercuts that showing us they are occasionally petty and stupid people even more so than everyone else that isn’t famous.
I think the Oscars, and awards shows in general, are relics of a bygone era. I don’t think they have the influence and prestige to the common folk that they used to. I don’t think regular viewers would miss them if they disappeared from broadcast television.
You look at beauty pageants and how they have pretty much faded away. In the days of limited viewinbg options, that was appointment television. But nowadays when you can type “beautiful woman” in a search engine and literally get millions of results. I think beauty pageants nowadays show up on basic cable channels that most people haven’t heard of or they’re streamed.
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Even allowing for the strangeness of the situation, I feel like storming the stage and hitting the comic is a very extreme response compared to, say, heckling, which seems to be the more obvious go-to response to a bad joke. It just feels like Smith skipped various steps that would occur to anyone else. And maybe that’s a Hollywood thing, where walking onto the stage in the middle of a show doesn’t feel out of line for someone of Smith’s stature.
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I said before about comedians now reevaluating their material.
An observation of some stand up material and award show standup:
I was a big fan of Steven Wright. Now I catch a few videos of this guy Steven Hoffstetter on YouTube.
Amy Schumer’s material on HBO and Netflix is mostly about the dating scene and how guys are, their quirks, etc. Whitney Cummings on HBO is the same and also about guys who pick up sexual techniques from watching the latest trends in porn movies.
Black comedians’ material is mostly about their community, social injustice, and also poking fun at other black celebrities. I can go on about Eddie Murphy, Cedric, DL Hughley, but Chris Rock’s material mostly makes jokes about the black American experience and jokes at the expense of celebs like Rihanna, Beyonce, Jada, and male celebs as well. But if you notice, especially at awards shows, Chris Rock is not as biting when he brings up white celebs. In 2016, he joked about Jude Law being everywhere in movies. Now, just before he remarked about Jada, he said something about the Hispanic couple Javier Bardim and Penelope Cruz that was harmless. His real biting material he saves in what he feels is his lane, his zone, “his people”.
Now that all this happened, every comedian will have to look things over, redefine what is “edgy”, ramp up stage security and so on…
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Regarding “violence is not the answer” – there is so much back and forth all over now about those who say this, their perspective, actual history… Did the US get to be where it is now by pacifism? Did Europe? How did the wealthy nations that are highly industrialized with their high standard of living get to be that way? A lot of deep seated things are coming to the fore in social media right now.
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Is this better or worse than the time John Wayne had to be restrained from assaulting a 17-year old girl at the Oscars in 1973?
Wait, what?
Sorry, I messed up, she was 27 at the time and I evidently can’t count.
In 73, Brando declined to attend the Oscars in protest over the Wounded Knee siege, and asked Native American rights activist Sacheen Littlefeather, to attend in his place and to give a speech about Native American rights in the case he won for The Godfather. She was only allowed speak for one minute, and was booed by members of the audience as well as cheered. John Wayne was waiting in the wings and had to be restrained by six guards to prevent him from storming the stage. Later that night Clint Eastwood joked that he was presenting the Best Picture award on behalf of all the cowboys shot in John Ford movies.
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Regarding “violence is not the answer” – there is so much back and forth all over now about those who say this, their perspective, actual history… Did the US get to be where it is now by pacifism? Did Europe? How did the wealthy nations that are highly industrialized with their high standard of living get to be that way? A lot of deep seated things are coming to the fore in social media right now.
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Regarding “violence is not the answer” – there is so much back and forth all over now about those who say this, their perspective, actual history… Did the US get to be where it is now by pacifism? Did Europe? How did the wealthy nations that are highly industrialized with their high standard of living get to be that way? A lot of deep seated things are coming to the fore in social media right now.
Sombebody‘s uncomfortable with the source of their nation’s wealth
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Regarding “violence is not the answer” – there is so much back and forth all over now about those who say this, their perspective, actual history… Did the US get to be where it is now by pacifism? Did Europe? How did the wealthy nations that are highly industrialized with their high standard of living get to be that way? A lot of deep seated things are coming to the fore in social media right now.
Sombebody‘s uncomfortable with the source of their nation’s wealth
touché
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This is just an absurd tangent. Just because history is violent sometimes, and sometimes for good, but almost always for bad reasons, doesn’t mean Will Smith was justified to smack Chris Rock. Chris Rock makes bad jokes but he wasn’t a colonizer.
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Chris Rock should’ve been able to tag The Rock to fight for him.
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Chris Rock should’ve been able to tag The Rock to fight for him.
What if Will Smith has access to a Jager from Pacific Rim?
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Chris Rock should’ve been able to tag The Rock to fight for him.
What if Will Smith has access to a Jager from Pacific Rim?
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I’m sure it is, if you look at social media, but that doesn’t mean it makes sense. Will Smith was angry at some other dude over a mean comment about his wife. He was not smashing the patriarchy or white supremacy.
Who is saying that he was?
I mean people want to see this incident and completely ignore the entire backstory that led up to it as well as the different perspectives that it is being seen, what is comes across to society at large, the narratives that are coming out of this, etc.
Some perspectives in social media do not make sense. Jeanne Pirro of Fox News said that “The Oscars are not the Hood” and another right winger compared Will to Putin. These views are very stupid.
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Chris Rock should’ve been able to tag The Rock to fight for him.
What if Will Smith has access to a Jager from Pacific Rim?
That was Idris Elba, you racist.
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I’m not arguing that you never react to an insult with physical violence either.
Under which circumstances would you think it is justified?
Well I for one am not going to tut tut if a bigot gets the shit kicked out of them for being a bigot.
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But whatever our feelings about the various rights and wrongs of history, I feel like we shouldn’t let ourselves get overly distracted by the history of colonialism, war, capitalism and race relations when we’re considering what is a fairly straightforward situation in which a stand-up comic made a bad joke about a man’s wife and the man then slapped him.
It might seem “straightforward” but in the States….Why is this going so viral with so much analysis?
Let me say this: When I was an undergrad, I took a class in European history. I read some history about the Irish people, how they were treated by the British and some huge famine that devastated the countryside. It was a very informative class. (In fact it was that History professor who said that History is not “bovine excrement” and that expression stayed with me. But I digress.)
But having learned that, still, I would NEVER come across as knowing more than someone who was actually born and raised there, the genuine article. Yet I get some on all social media who want to come across as knowing more about being black in America than me. They want to do the gatekeeping and tell others to F off when others try to talk about their issues, but they don’t respect the set boundaries of others who tell them to sit this one out and just listen. They tell others “Stay in your lane!” but they never just stay in theirs.
That is what is so annoying.
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Well I for one am not going to tut tut if a bigot gets the shit kicked out of them for being a bigot.
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Don’t blame me, Anders told me to do it
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Don’t blame me, Anders told me to do it
Richard Spencer getting punched never gets old. Especially not since new remixes are still coming out.
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Fair enough, come to think of it there are situations where I wouldn’t condemn physical violence either, like when an adult verbally abuses a child. I think it has to cross some line into what I perceive as psychologically damaging.
However, the main reason to oppose violence is that you might get your ass kicked. Most people – especially people in TKD classes – don’t have the first clue how to fight and, on top of that, in real fights, everybody looks stupid and spastic.
If anybody feels justified slapping someone, go ahead and see what happens.
“Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.” – Mike Tyson
Maybe I’m being a bit too harsh on Will Smith. I mean if he continually hears mean jokes at the expense of his wife I could understand why he snaps. It still doesn’t make hitting Chris Rock like he did alright, but I understand it.
I still don’t quite understand it. Out of all the options, this is the one that hurts him the worst. Forget violence – what justifies this level of self-sabotage.
Chris Rock on the other hand will just be rewarded for this. Hell, I imagine he’ll open his next show saying “I thought my career was in the dumps… and then Will Smith slapped me! I mean, look at all y’all here tonight. Standing room only! If this place catches on fire, ain’t none of us gettin’ out alive!”
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I still don’t quite understand it. Out of all the options, this is the one that hurts him the worst. Forget violence – what justifies this level of self-sabotage.
Do you always make the perfect choice, even when you’re not angry?
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The weather’s doing weird things…last week we had summery days, now we have a winter storm coming.
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I said before about comedians now reevaluating their material.
An observation of some stand up material and award show standup:
I was a big fan of Steven Wright. Now I catch a few videos of this guy Steven Hoffstetter on YouTube.
Amy Schumer’s material on HBO and Netflix is mostly about the dating scene and how guys are, their quirks, etc. Whitney Cummings on HBO is the same and also about guys who pick up sexual techniques from watching the latest trends in porn movies.
Black comedians’ material is mostly about their community, social injustice, and also poking fun at other black celebrities. I can go on about Eddie Murphy, Cedric, DL Hughley, but Chris Rock’s material mostly makes jokes about the black American experience and jokes at the expense of celebs like Rihanna, Beyonce, Jada, and male celebs as well. But if you notice, especially at awards shows, Chris Rock is not as biting when he brings up white celebs. In 2016, he joked about Jude Law being everywhere in movies. Now, just before he remarked about Jada, he said something about the Hispanic couple Javier Bardim and Penelope Cruz that was harmless. His real biting material he saves in what he feels is his lane, his zone, “his people”.
Now that all this happened, every comedian will have to look things over, redefine what is “edgy”, ramp up stage security and so on…
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Regarding “violence is not the answer” – there is so much back and forth all over now about those who say this, their perspective, actual history… Did the US get to be where it is now by pacifism? Did Europe? How did the wealthy nations that are highly industrialized with their high standard of living get to be that way? A lot of deep seated things are coming to the fore in social media right now.
No, comedians aren’t going to reevaluate their material. They shouldn’t have to.
What they will evaluate is the venue’s security and response to potentially violent hecklers. It is the venue’s responsibility to provide a safe place for the performers. If they can’t do that, that venue deserves to be boycotted by acts and lose business. I wouldn’t be surprised if comedians are asking venues what their security is and demanding more if they feel it is inadequate.
The comedians shouldn’t have to change their material. Attendees should act like responsible adults and not violent babies when they hear something they don’t like.
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@todd…About comedy:
If you build your career off of biting and cutting remarks at other people, are you really funny or are you more mean spirited? What is comedy anyway? What is picking on someone “safe” who can’t fight back? Is it being a bully, bravery, cowardice… What?
I said before that Chris Rock is not the only one. I mentioned black comedians but Joan Rivers used to pick on Liz Taylor in a vicious way. There was a huge backlash against Andrew Dice Clay and his misogyny jokes. Some material really should change. Comedy really should be reevaluated.
No such thing as going too far… “violent baby” if you object to cheap shots. Can’t stand up for yourself or your partner. Is that what you are saying? Are you defending the art of comedy more than than the feelings of others? “Shouldn’t have to change their material”
In the start of his career, Chris Rock used to joke about making out on a first date and when it is getting hot and heavy, starting to undress, the girl then says to stop she doesnt’ want to do it, she says she sees you as a friend, etc. He was poking fun at a woman’s right to say no. The feminist groups and media went after him, and he changed his material.
It is one thing if a joke is clearly inoffensive (neutral) and someone says they are deeply offended, and it is clear that the person is nitpicking and being oversensitive. But this baldness thing, alopecia, and Chris Rock did a documentary on black hair issues. He thought he was “safe” by joking at the expense of his own people as he always does but… And what is telling is that others want to regulate and be the arbiter of how Jada should feel and what Will should have done.
I see some tweets and reports of some chiming in like Judd Apatow who took down his knee jerk tweet after he realized it made no sense. Amy Schumer said she was “traumatized”… apparently much more than Jada. This Canadian therapist Wendy Walsh who compared Will to Putin, and a posting in the Picture thread about this Zelensky person’s tweet that this is like the Germans following Hitler, Russians following Putin’s invasion. Even Jim Carrey said something ridiculous.
Personally, I didn’t expect to see that and it is out of place. Then again the Oscars aren’t really all that sacred given it’s history (John Wayne’s attempt to storm the stage, Oscars given to sexual abusers, etc.). But since a scene was made there involving people of color, we have all this.
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Consolidating postings
It is all coming out now on Zoe Kravitz:
zoe kravitz is funny. will never forgetting working at essence and us trying to book her for interviews/covers/events/etc and her team declining bcuz we "aren't her audience" 🥴
— Bradford (@brxdford) March 29, 2022
Right. I really liked her but ……….. https://t.co/HJbCK9psEc
— S. (@ams_city) March 29, 2022
Zoe Kravitz is the Black woman that people cast when they don’t really f with Black people
— M Charlene Stevens (@theartoprah) March 30, 2022
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The comedians shouldn’t have to change their material. Attendees should act like responsible adults and not violent babies when they hear something they don’t like.
But comedians have no requirement to act responsibly?
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Comedians have to start being nice or I’m going to punch them. They especially have to stop jokes about Dutch people. Fucking Dutch haters.
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Nigel Powers: There are only two things I can’t stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures… and the Dutch.
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I fucking love that movie. I don’t know why he made Goldmember a Dutchman, but it’s great. Wonderful that people associate him with what being Dutch is about.
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The comedians shouldn’t have to change their material. Attendees should act like responsible adults and not violent babies when they hear something they don’t like.
But comedians have no requirement to act responsibly?
A comedian’s responsibility is to be funny. Different comedians have different styles.
There is also the responsibility of attendee going to the show to understand the comedy style of the comedian. Don’t go see Jeffrey Ross and expect Jay Leno material. I’ve been to a Jeffrey Ross/Dave Attell show and while they roast each other, they do go into the audience and make fun of them. And they didn’t hold back. The audience members getting roasted loved it. People wanted to get roasted because they knew the comedians and what to expect when they bought the tickets. If I went to see Jay Leno, I would go in knowing it will be a different type of show and experience.
If someone is at a comedy show and they don’t like it, they should either not laugh or get up and leave. Heckling and violence are not the proper response.
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The comedians shouldn’t have to change their material. Attendees should act like responsible adults and not violent babies when they hear something they don’t like.
But comedians have no requirement to act responsibly?
A comedian’s responsibility is to be funny. Different comedians have different styles.
There is also the responsibility of attendee going to the show to understand the comedy style of the comedian. Don’t go see Jeffrey Ross and expect Jay Leno material. I’ve been to a Jeffrey Ross/Dave Attell show and while they roast each other, they do go into the audience and make fun of them. And they didn’t hold back. The audience members getting roasted loved it. People wanted to get roasted because they knew the comedians and what to expect when they bought the tickets. If I went to see Jay Leno, I would go in knowing it will be a different type of show and experience.
If someone is at a comedy show and they don’t like it, they should either not laugh or get up and leave. Heckling and violence are not the proper response.
I assume the Oscars didn’t have a sign that said “the presenters may make bad taste jokes about you, yes YOU” as you walked in though.
My problem with the whole thing is that people aren’t talking about the inherent cruelty of Chris Rock’s joke. Rock could have not made that joke, he could have made a joke that complimented and raised Jada Pinkett-Smith’s spirits. All too often, comedians are cruel, and unnecessarily so and they hide behind the rhetoric of freedom of expression and the idea that comedians are truth tellers – which I personally find asinine. Rock chose cruelty and that’s being ignored.
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On the other hand, the joke flopped. Only a few people laughed… like Will Smith himself.
That’s the risk comedians take and the punishment is they lose the audience. The performer is there to entertain and the audience there to be entertained. Each side is equally responsible, but the theater is essentially a safe place for risky and dangerous speech. No on wants to hear this in the street or at work but they’ll pay to hear it in the theater and release that tension holding it in outside.
That’s what the stand up comic faces. A crowd of people wanting to release that tension in laughs and if he doesn’t make them laugh, they’ll still release that tension on the comic in other ways.
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On the other hand, the joke flopped.
But the response was a hit.
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The joke didn’t flop, the audience gave him a big hand.
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What is this? He is not supposed to defend his wife’s honor? Or black people should not fight back?
It looks here by some posting that the insulting comedy must be protected as if it had more rights than the one defending himself.The Oscars are not a comedy club. Snide and cutting remarks are made in lot of settings. At office staff meetings, colleagues might undermine your input and will make a remark or a backhanded compliment. Or having a dinner with some in a restaurant, where someone will try to elevate themselves by making a cutting “joke” about you that is funny to everyone except you. They try to look “cool” at your expense.
As for Will Smith: In his biography, he said he witnessed at 9 years old his father punch his mother in the head so hard that she fell and coughed up blood. That apparently affected him. He said that he felt powerless at 9, but now that he is older, he steps in to protect the women in his life. As for chuckling at first, he then turned to Jada, and after seeing the discomfort in her face, he went on stage. Now I am no psychologist, but it stands to reason that something went off in his head when he saw Jada’s expression, then he jumped in to defend her honor.
There are so many angles that this is being seen in. Which is the best angle?
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There are so many angles that this is being seen in. Which is the best angle?
The simplest one: it was a shit joke and it was also an inappropriate response.
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it was a shit joke
This is the bit that leaves me scratching my head. Referencing a 20 year old (30 year old?) hardly seems like cutting edge humour.
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Al-x wrote:
There are so many angles that this is being seen in. Which is the best angle?
The simplest one: it was a shit joke and it was also an inappropriate response.
No Critical Thinking, no analysis of nuances. Nothing. You actually give more analysis to comic books but I digress…
It has been stated here already the differing approaches: Those who have a career doing standup will defend the comedian’s right (more security etc. citing the first amendment that really only applies to the government not imprisoning you), racists saying that “the Oscars are not the Hood” and all of a sudden “violence is not the answer”, some saying they are “traumatized” apparently more than Jada, the quality of the joke, and some wanting to judge and determine how the couple should feel about it, etc.
Well, it is social media so people will chime in their opinion on things when they should really sit it out and listen. Look at all the tweets that have been mentioned, and interviews given. As for chiming in on other issues, we have antivaxxers challenging seasoned specialists. Same with climate change.
Personally, I chimed in a thread last week saying something about women in burkas in Muslim countries and I was corrected by those who knew more.
I have to say it is all about staying in one’s lane.
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Personally, I chimed in a thread last week saying something about women in burkas in Muslim countries and I was corrected by those who knew more.
Personally I thought that was very offensive and you should receive a slap for it.
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What is this? He is not supposed to defend his wife’s honor? Or black people should not fight back?
So you’re saying if you say or post something derogatory towards women, it is completely justified to slap the shit out of you in front of everyone else because because we’re supposed to defend the honor of women? Wow, the relationship thread is going to be an all-out slap fest from now on.
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So you’re saying if you say or post something derogatory towards women, it is completely justified to slap the shit out of you in front of everyone else because because we’re supposed to defend the honor of women? Wow, the relationship thread is going to be an all-out slap fest from now on.
I said his wife’s honor.
And the Relationship Thread is another matter… and yet… YOU DO HAVE A POINT.
Al-x wrote:
Well, it is social media so people will chime in their opinion on things when they should really sit it out and listen
Take your own fucking advice here, please.
Language… manners… etiquette… and quote people in proper context next time.
Also….Anders, if you want to go there:
Do you want everyone to go over the postings on this comparing the content of my postings vs. your postings?
Did you give an analysis of this incident and its many nuances (especially on race) in the US?
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Well, it is social media so people will chime in their opinion on things when they should really sit it out and listen. Look at all the tweets that have been mentioned, and interviews given. As for chiming in on other issues, we have antivaxxers challenging seasoned specialists. Same with climate change.
Thankfully everyone can give their opinion on anything, I like it that way. If anyone has a shit take you’re free to ignore them however. If someone on the internet is wrong you’re probably not going to be able to make them shurt up by saying “you shut up and listen!”
Personally I always listen to the expert:
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As for Will Smith: In his biography, he said he witnessed at 9 years old his father punch his mother in the head so hard that she fell and coughed up blood. That apparently affected him. He said that he felt powerless at 9, but now that he is older, he steps in to protect the women in his life. As for chuckling at first, he then turned to Jada, and after seeing the discomfort in her face, he went on stage. Now I am no psychologist, but it stands to reason that something went off in his head when he saw Jada’s expression, then he jumped in to defend her honor.
That story is tragic, but it doesn’t come close to justifying his actions here. Chris Rock didn’t punch Jada told a bad joke which offended her and Will Smith ought to have responded with words when he was accepting his award. Called Chris out and made him see the pain he had caused with his joke. That would be defending his wife’s honour. Instead he escalated the situation with violence and in that moment Will stopped being the powerless child and became his father. I’m sure something went off in his father’s head too and the result was his mother coughing up blood. I don’t think we should be defending Will for following that path.
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Yeah the abuser often has a history of being abused (or being normalized to abuse). If you’re taught violence as a child, violence can become how you respond to things too.
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Will Smith ought to have responded with words when he was accepting his award.
While I would agree that this would’ve been smart – there is no way he could’ve planned ahead for that since he didn’t know he was going to be presented an award.
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Will Smith ought to have responded with words when he was accepting his award.
While I would agree that this would’ve been smart – there is no way he could’ve planned ahead for that since he didn’t know he was going to be presented an award.
yeah, it makes more sense to take the mic available on stage and address it but that would’ve been even more I’ll considered. That moment was about the nominees and he made it about him. And I personally don’t believe this was as emotionally driven as apologists make it.
He’s not a teenager or even a young man. He claims he is about love and not violence. This isn’t his first or even second time at the Oscars. He knows that everyone in the audience is “on screen” as far as the show is concerned. He would be aware of that at all times and used to it. He decided to get up, go on stage and then once up there he decided to strike a man. he had time to think it over.
I can’t accept for certain that he was thinking about his wife or anyone but himself and his own pride. Does anyone think she wanted him to do this? I don’t think she should be involved in it at all. It was all about him. Reminds me of THE LAST DUEL as far as social expectations.
Honestly, he should not have been given the award and should have been made to leave, but you can see how the producers could not do that in a live show. On the other hand, anything less than removing the Oscar Award from him will be seen as a slap on the wrist.
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They won’t remove the Oscar.
The Academy have set up precedents really where they will revoke membership or ban from the ceremony but have never clawed back the statues. It was suggested above they’ve done nothing against previous winners who have committed crimes like Cosby or Weinstein, they have issued bans but not rescinded awards.
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Yeah I think there are just people who have it in themselves to do something like this in reaction to something like what Chris Rock said. Like a psychologically driven response, a way they’re wired, either becasue of nature or nurture. For most people I think the taboo for reacting physically is way too high. If I imagine myself in the situation, I might get angry at Rock and say something rude, similar to what Smith did after he hit him and returned to his seat. I might really curse him out but I don’t think I would hit him. The last time I hit someone was in high school.
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Honestly, he should not have been given the award and should have been made to leave, but you can see how the producers could not do that in a live show.
It’s been reported he was asked to leave by the organizers but he refused.
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For me he should be banned from the ceremony. Quite simply because if I walked on stage and smacked someone I would be banned. If I got into a fight in a pub or nightclub, I’d be banned. If I ran on the pitch at a sporting event or threw something at a player, I’d be banned. Regardless of whether I had been taunted or insulted.
It’s something, regardless of everything else, that’s a pretty standard response. If Smith is not banned from the ceremony then it’s in awe of his celebrity status/influence/wealth.
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That would be absurd but realistically plausible. Any angle is possible but I honestly think the incident looked “staged” in the sense it seemed considered and thought out. Not that it was faked like pro wrestling though, honestly that seems how we’re all responding to it. The whole world is responding to it.
Chris Rock could also step up as well, apologize for his part in it without condoning it and offer to contribute or start a fund for any charity “Mrs. Will Smith” chooses (after all he can’t say her name).
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The thing that gets me is that Smith laughed at the joke while Jada rolled her eyes. Right after that, the camera cuts make to Rock for a few seconds. We then see Smith get up to go slap Rock.
Maybe, I think there’s a default response in those roast type scenarios to grin and bear it even if in most cases it hurts quite a bit. It could be it was just Jada’s reaction or it took a few moments to process. I’ll admit I’ve been in scenarios where someone has taken a jab verbally and you smile along even though it stings.
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I did see some conspiracy theorist say that George Soros was behind this to distract everyone from the war in the Ukraine, food shortages, and the staged pandemic.
Well, I’m convinced.
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Will Smith ought to have responded with words when he was accepting his award.
While I would agree that this would’ve been smart – there is no way he could’ve planned ahead for that since he didn’t know he was going to be presented an award.
Technically true, but he was one of the closest things to a lock this year. He was lobbying hard and every single prediction article I saw had him winning. I suspect part of why he likely refused to leave was because he fully expected to win.
To someone else’s point, I also doubt Jada said anything to Will to set him off. She’s not some weak lady and she knew this was likely a big night for her husband. I feel like Will tried to laugh it off because that’s the show, but then Rock said something like “come on that was a nice one”. At that point Will may have looked at Jada, seen she was upset and gotten pissed. But this is one of the problems with what he did. By attacking Rock and “defending” Jada, he’s opened her up to a lot of unflattering jokes and speculation. He took what could have been a passing discomfort into a drawn out barrage of speculative ridicule and made both himself and his wife look that much weaker in the process.
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It’s interesting, all the emotions this opens up, all the concerns about violence, comedy, trauma, celebrities, race etc. I don’t like that there are some who approve of what Will Smith did, but I think if this had happened say in the 50s probably even more people would have approved it.
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It’s interesting, all the emotions this opens up, all the concerns about violence, comedy, trauma, celebrities, race etc. I don’t like that there are some who approve of what Will Smith did, but I think if this had happened say in the 50s probably even more people would have approved it.
Like if Sydney Poitier had slapped Don Rickles? In the 50’s and 60’s the comedians were actually a little harsher than they are today but the people were a bit more thick-skinned as well.
I could see a person at a comedy club threatening a comedian if he was a little too personal in direct attacks against his wife, but even then it wouldn’t come off well.
However, in this case, it isn’t some guy at a cheap show. It’s a guy making millions of dollars, who has the adulation of people around the world, is working at the top of his industry at a show where he’s up for one of the major awards for that industry and in a job where everyone he works with is paid to make him look good.
He’s winning, and all he has to do is sit there and take a little jab – maybe even heckle a little bit at most – and he’s still winning. It’s one thing to say you could understand it if you were in that position, but if you were really in that position with all there is to lose, is it still that understandable?
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People slap and hit each other over all kinds of petty reasons all the time. It’s nor right or rational but I think it’s understandable.
People do, but usually it’s the context that makes it understandable and when all the elements of the situation are considered, the act just becomes much more ugly and understanding it makes it seem even worse than an irrational act would have been.
I question the idea that this was an emotional or even irrational act in itself. We’re all discussing what he should or could have done under the context that it had anything to do with his wife’s alopecia or that he even should have done anything other than stay in his seat, but what he actually did was very clear in its intent. It’s the act you’d see from a thug in the streets or a back woods country bully. “Disrespect my woman and you disrespect me. Check yourself!”
Ricky Gervais made a few jokes about the Oscars about how he would have hosted and one of them was: “I’m proud to announce that this is the most diverse and progressive Oscars ever. Looking out I see people from all walks of life. Every demographic under the sun. Except poor people, obviously. F**k them.”
Well, we did see some representation of poor people – only it was of the worst most stereotypical kind. Will Smith sure isn’t poor and he isn’t a thug. I’d say he only plays one in the movies, but he doesn’t even do that (Chris Rock has, though). From Fresh Prince of Bel-Air to King Richard, he’s determinedly stayed away from the stereotypical portrayals of black culture as a violent and desperate condition where a person has to defend their status with violence and threats.
However, in one of the most important moments of his real life, he decides to actually act like a thug basically throwing his whole professional life out the window of a speeding car.
It was a rational act with a clear intent and an equally clear message that he then continued to try to justify in his acceptance speech, and while we’d readily accept and not even care why some poor person in a bar slapped or even shot a person for making fun of his wife or mother, Will Smith gets a standing ovation just a few minutes afterwards and everyone is debating it for days after.
It’s not his action that is irrational in this case, but the absurdity of the world that seems to be asserting itself… and all this against the context of a war in Europe that isn’t really all that far physically from a lot of people in this forum.
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I question the idea that this was an emotional or even irrational act in itself. We’re all discussing what he should or could have done under the context that it had anything to do with his wife’s alopecia or that he even should have done anything other than stay in his seat, but what he actually did was very clear in its intent. It’s the act you’d see from a thug in the streets or a back woods country bully. “Disrespect my woman and you disrespect me. Check yourself!”
But why wouldn’t Will Smith be like that? Just because he’s rich and succesful doesn’t mean he can’t exhibit aggressive or bullying behavior.
If I had to guess, but I can’t read Smith’s mind, he just felt ridiculed, his honour was hurt and he had to compensate by showing physical dominance. This is just human behavior. It’s not really praiseworthy behavior, but for some people I think it works that way. I think this happens in all strata of society, it’s not just street thugs or country bullies. Heck even the Kardashians fight and slap each other!
It’s not really unusual. The only unusual thing is it happened at the Oscars. But why wouldn’t it happen at the Oscars? They’re just human beings.
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