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Al-x wrote:

It is called Hypocrisy and contradicting yourself.

No it’s not. You can receive Christmas presents and even be a committed Christian without being obliged to believe and support every fringe theory linked to Christianity.

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I don’t know about that, but that is another conversation.

Someone else keeps mentioning Revelation. That whole book is really about symbols. If I remember, Jesus used to put things using farming tools and things as symbols for the people who were mostly farmers to get the point easier. They never took notes with pen and paper.

I don’t plan to see those crazy beasts as described in that book to come out anytime soon. Makes me wonder though if all those symbolisms can be figured out.

Al-x wrote:

I don’t know about that, but that is another conversation.

No it’s very much the same conversation.

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DavidM

Dave wrote:

Al-x wrote:

I don’t know about that, but that is another conversation.

No it’s very much the same conversation.

Ok… then. You said a “committed” Christian is not really obligated to observe all of it.

How then do you define committed?

I would say a committed person goes all the way. The person is not casual and cherry picks this and that.

Well… to each their own.

Al-x wrote:

Ok… then. You said a “committed” Christian is not really obligated to observe all of it. How then do you define committed? I would say a committed person goes all the way. The person is not casual and cherry picks this and that.

Even if you believe that – that any Christian needs to fully accept and engage with all the tenets of the religion to be a “true” Christian, rather than the reality that all Christians will have their own level of engagement with and observance of different elements of the religion – it’s a gigantic leap to include these fringe theories about prophecies foretelling specific details of the current era alongside the more mainstream and accepted elements of the religion. These aren’t universally accepted Christian thinking.

That’s without even getting into equating someone receiving Christmas presents with them being a committed Christian, which is a huge leap in itself.

Essentially I think that trying to suggest any hypocrisy from anyone here simply for being sceptical about these “prophecy” theories is nonsense.

Again that is debatable.

Those who get it, get it.
Those who don’t, don’t.

Anyway.. There are so many different Christian denominations it is not even funny.

So many takes on Jesus himself (ie he was black, he was Aryan, he was gay, he shagged Mary Magdelene, he survived his ordeal and lived elsewhere and had a kid. He learned Buddhism, he was Essene)

Which is the denomination that gets it right? I don’t know.

Until next time.

Al-x wrote:

Again that is debatable. Those who get it, get it. Those who don’t, don’t.

Is it debatable, though? Do you actually think that those theories of prophecy represent mainstream Christian thinking?

Sorry to keep harping on this, but I do think it’s worth being clear that some claims aren’t really debatable when you can demonstrate pretty unambiguously that they’re nonsense.

Unfortunately this kind of “well that’s just your opinion” approach is how misinformation spreads so easily. Some things aren’t simply a matter of opinion.

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DavidM

Dave wrote:

Even if you believe that – that any Christian needs to fully accept and engage with all the tenets of the religion to be a “true” Christian, rather than the reality that all Christians will have their own level of engagement with and observance of different elements of the religion – it’s a gigantic leap to include these fringe theories about prophecies foretelling specific details of the current era alongside the more mainstream and accepted elements of the religion. These aren’t universally accepted Christian thinking.

True, but a little serious for a jokey thread like this. More something for the Mind Expansion thread.

Nevertheless, here is an obvious fact that people rarely bring up when it comes to the Bible and especially the New Testament:

There were Christians before the Gospels or Book of Revelations were even written. Saint Peter, famously, was illiterate. So, obviously, since that is a definite fact – that even the people in the Bible obviously did not read the Bible, you have to question the actual value of the texts and their interpretations to actually being a Christian. It seems like a paradox, but it is an obvious problem that even Christian apologists have to deal with.

Of course, the dominance of the texts was initially an entirely elite construction – the Canon and its collection into a finished New Testament was determined by the people that wanted control over the religion while even in the heyday of Christian domination of the Roman Empire into the Medieval period, the vast majority of Christians did not read, much less read the Bible, and “Bible stories” were told orally in and out of Church.

Then the printing press came along and translations of the Bible as well as the spread of literacy suddenly made it available to everyone. That’s really when the prominence and emphasis on the texts became paramount as it fueled the protestant reformation.

However, as has often been pointed out, anyone can find anything they want in the Bible to justify any action they want to take. It is no bane against any sort of sin.

 

[Al-x]

Anonymous wrote:

True, but a little serious for a jokey thread like this. More something for the Mind Expansion thread.

Yes! That is where this should be.

Continue all this there.

As for me, I propose to agree to disagree.

——————————-

As for I believe:

• This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Al-x.

I’m seeing more and more about creepy Bible accurate angels, but a lot of this is more complex.

More Lovecraft than Leviticus.

 

 

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Todd

Al-x wrote:

There are so many different Christian denominations it is not even funny.

Yes and the reason for that is religious texts are open to interpretation and often contradict themselves, which makes ‘going all the way’ with your beliefs difficult.

Take the Quran for example, there’s a passage that says a Muslim should never touch a wet dog and there’s another that says the prophet was buried with his pet hounds. So a lot of Muslims won’t go anywhere near a dog yet many happily have them as pets and as a consequence wash them. Who is right when the text gives two opposing suggestions?

The next is emphasis, we see now that Christian fundamentalist groups in the US are banning talks and books by an LGBT author but there is no mention of homosexuality in the New Testament. It’s clearly not an important subject for Jesus but helping the poor is a constant repeated theme and these same Christians will lobby for low taxes and fund raise for private jets. These denominations are often cherry picking the bits they want to follow, for centuries Christians could not lend money and charge interest based on the Bible and then they decided it was okay.

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njerry, Todd

Al-X is going to go full Qanon some day. I know it.

I’m not wrong, if you think so we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Anyway, let’s not discuss this here. We’ll do it in another thread of my choosing.

—

Speaking of [unrelated topic], what do you guys think of [this thing that I’m disastrously unqualified to talk about].

Well, personally I [have an insane take on the subject that I have no apparent reasons or arguments for].

Discuss!

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garjones wrote:

Yes and the reason for that is religious texts are open to interpretation and often contradict themselves, which makes ‘going all the way’ with your beliefs difficult.

 

Jesus himself was very lackadaisical about the biblical laws, saying it’s alright to do stuff on the Sabbath, give mercy to adulterers etc.

garjones wrote:

Take the Quran for example, there’s a passage that says a Muslim should never touch a wet dog and there’s another that says the prophet was buried with his pet hounds. So a lot of Muslims won’t go anywhere near a dog yet many happily have them as pets and as a consequence wash them. Who is right when the text gives two opposing suggestions? The next is emphasis, we see now that Christian fundamentalist groups in the US are banning talks and books by an LGBT author but there is no mention of homosexuality in the New Testament. It’s clearly not an important subject for Jesus but helping the poor is a constant repeated theme and these same Christians will lobby for low taxes and fund raise for private jets. These denominations are often cherry picking the bits they want to follow, for centuries Christians could not lend money and charge interest based on the Bible and then they decided it was okay. 3 USERS

The Quran is in a similar position. Originally entirely oral and then assembled by a leader and scholars long after the Prophet Muhammed died.

I think in both cases, the problem was that the believers basically used the religion for their own needs – exhibited by the popularity of Arianism – and that made it harder for the Bishops and the secular leaders or the Sultans and the clerics to use the religion to control their people.

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

elf was very lackadaisical about the biblical laws, saying it’s alright to do stuff on the Sabbath, give mercy to adulterers etc.

Exactly. A good book to read in this regard is Tolstoy’s THE GOSPEL IN BRIEF 

It essentially boils down the gospels and removes all the supernatural elements and contradictions to focus on what Jesus actually does and says in the bible. In that case, Jesus mostly shows that following the bible is not the same as doing what God wants.

IT happened that Jesus was walking across a field with his pupils one Saturday. The pupils were hungry, and on the way they plucked ears of corn and rubbed them in their hands and ate the grain. But according to the teaching of the Orthodox, God had given Moses a law that everyone should observe Saturday and do nothing that day. According to the teaching of the Orthodox, God had ordered that anyone who worked on Saturday should be stoned.

The Orthodox noticed that the pupils rubbed ears of corn on a Saturday and said to them: It is wrong to do that on a Saturday. One must not work on Saturday, and you are rubbing ears of corn. God made Saturday holy, and commanded that the breaking of it should be punished by death.

Jesus heard this, and said: If you understood what is meant by the words of God: ‘I desire love and not sacrifice’-you would not condemn what is harmless. Man is more important than Saturday. It happened another time on a Saturday that when Jesus was teaching in the Assembly a sick woman came to him and asked him to help her. And Jesus began to cure her.

The Orthodox church-elder was angry with Jesus, and said to the people: In the law of God it is said: ‘There are six days in the week on which to work. But Jesus then asked the Orthodox professors of the law: Do you think it is wrong to help a man on Saturday? And they did not know what to answer.

Then Jesus said: Deceivers! Does not each of you untie his ox from its manger and take it to water on Saturday? And if his sheep fell into a well would not any one of you pull it out even on Saturday? A man is much better than a sheep: yet you say that it is wrong to help a man. What then do you think we should do on Saturday-good or evil? Save life or destroy it? Good should be done always, even on Saturday.

Of course, Tolstoy was excommunicated for this, but at the time he was more popular than the church in Russia, so it didn’t matter.

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Todd

garjones wrote:

Take the Quran for example, there’s a passage that says a Muslim should never touch a wet dog and there’s another that says the prophet was buried with his pet hounds. So a lot of Muslims won’t go anywhere near a dog yet many happily have them as pets and as a consequence wash them. Who is right when the text gives two opposing suggestions?

Look, it’s hard to edit 600 pages

 

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garjones wrote:

Martin Smith wrote:

In recent years, that’s been dominated on Twitter by Richard Herring (inadvertently, if you’re being generous) making it about himself and idiot men by replying to anyone asking when International Men’s Day is.

Fuck me. Is there anything a white male ally can do without criticism?

May as well not bother and just shut up.

I mean, they can talk about women and/or IWD itself or promote women’s voices, instead of boosting the volume of misogynists and trolls by quote-tweeting them to all their followers to tell them about International Men’s Day, every year, to the point that it became the main thing some people know the day for and drowning out anything else, making the day about a man loudly telling other men about International Men’s Day.

You know, just as an off-the-top-of-the-head suggestion.

In fairness I think Herring has channelled his Twitter antics into raising many thousands of pounds for Refuge each year (I think the last year that he did it he raised £100k+).

Even in recent years when he’s stopped doing his day of Tweets, he’s still helped to raise money for the cause.

It’s very cheering indeed to see that a further £2000 or so has been raised for Refuge, even though I have stopped doing my marathon day. Please give them a little bit more if you can afford to. Incredible and sadly necessary work https://t.co/OISSWyZNkI

— Richard K Herring (@Herring1967) March 8, 2022

So dismissing it purely as some kind of attention-getting device on his part is a bit disingenuous.

[Al-x]

Anonymous wrote:

Al-X is going to go full Qanon some day. I know it.

I’m not wrong, if you think so we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Anyway, let’s not discuss this here. We’ll do it in another thread of my choosing.

—

Speaking of [unrelated topic], what do you guys think of [this thing that I’m disastrously unqualified to talk about].

Well, personally I [have an insane take on the subject that I have no apparent reasons or arguments for].

Discuss!

Ok…since my name was mentioned.

First of all, proper forum etiquette in it’s most basic sense is not to derail a thread. Two to three people are not to go back and forth several pages in a thread. It is common practice to always take the back and forth elsewhere and let the thread continue. It was done in MW and it is done everywhere.

Also, it was not me who said to put the discussion elsewhere. It was not of my choosing. It was Johnny.

Three, it everyone’s right to decide to back down for the moment and choose to come later at a appropriate time.

Etiquette means manners, not making a scene, trolling, or having a public meltdown (#4)

This is a forum, not a street fight.

Speaking of being disastrously unqualified… never mind. More to come… Or should there now be an educational etiquette thread?

• This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Al-x.

Honestly I don’t really care about keeping a thread on course, just let anyone say what they like and don’t try to steer it in some direction.

[Tom Cat]

Al-x wrote:

Etiquette means manners, not making a scene, trolling, or having a public meltdown (#4)

That’s an interesting definition of etiquette you have. Where did you find it because it doesn’t match the definition in any dictionary I’m aware of?

Al-x wrote:

First of all, proper forum etiquette in it’s most basic sense is not to derail a thread. Two to three people are not to go back and forth several pages in a thread. It is common practice to always take the back and forth elsewhere and let the thread continue. It was done in MW and it is done everywhere.

Do you have a link to the formal rules for posting here? I’m new around here and wasn’t aware that there is a limit to the length of a conversation on this forum. Is there something more specific that “several pages” because I find that to be a bit vague for a rule?

• This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Tom Cat.

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The only real limit on threads in this forum is that once they hit the max number, it has to be restarted – so thread pages go up to 9, then stop.

Ignore Al and Shitposter, they’ve been feuding since forevet.

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Tom Cat

Ben wrote:

they’ve been feuding since forevet

Or more precisely, for several pages.

 

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Tom Cat, Dave

Ben wrote:

so thread pages go up to 9

My threads go up to 11.

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Ben wrote:

Ignore Al and Shitposter

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Todd, Dave

Ben wrote:

The only real limit on threads in this forum is that once they hit the max number, it has to be restarted – so thread pages go up to 9, then stop.

And even then, the same conversation can carry on in the rebooted thread.

Let’s be honest though, a lot of the conversations here have been going on for many years and multiple messageboards, let alone pages.

And if you’re someone who likes to post and repost the same things in the same threads for years on end then it’s probably a bit rich to start complaining about a conversation going on too long.

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Todd

Dave wrote:

Let’s be honest though, a lot of the conversations here have been going on for many years and multiple messageboards, let alone pages.

This is a lie. Anyways, what’s your thoughts on Man Of Steel?

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Todd, Dave

Anonymous wrote:

Dave wrote:

Let’s be honest though, a lot of the conversations here have been going on for many years and multiple messageboards, let alone pages.

This is a lie. Anyways, what’s your thoughts on Man Of Steel?

I think the ending is cracking.

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Todd

Martin Smith wrote:

I mean, they can talk about women and/or IWD itself or promote women’s voices, instead of boosting the volume of misogynists and trolls by quote-tweeting them to all their followers to tell them about International Men’s Day, every year,

My response may seem a bit harsh but is he ‘boosting’ anyone by taking the piss out of them and raising an enormous amount of money for domestic abuse charities? I’m never going to follow ‘Dipshit 76’ because he made a stupid comment that Herring retweeted.

I just get concerned that in the ‘culture wars’ we get to a place where any element of privilege (i.e. being white or male or heterosexual) invalidates any effort. You know in the BLM and ‘me too’ situations people were asking for people like me and Herring not to be silent but be proper allies. Then it seems if you do that you’ll get shat on anyway and it’s just easier to keep quiet.

The ‘purity’ element of this discourse is potentially very damaging, the progressive left picks holes in good intentions not being exactly as they may prefer while the regressive right doesn’t give a shit as long as they have your backing.

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DavidM

Tom Cat wrote:

Do you have a link to the formal rules for posting here?

I am in charge right now. We like you keep to the topic and don’t go into personal attacks. If someone doesn’t like Ant-Man and you do you argue the reasons they don’t rather than their personalities.

This is the random thread which was created so you could comment on whatever you fancied without ever going off topic, why anyone wants to get random ‘back on track’ is a mystery to me.

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garjones wrote:

This is the random thread which was created so you could comment on whatever you fancied without ever going off topic, why anyone wants to get random ‘back on track’ is a mystery to me.

Which reminds me — the Turkish Angora has a lifespan of 14 to 16 years.

Carry on.

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garjones wrote:

I am in charge right now.

[Al-x]

njerry wrote:

Carry on.

Or “Shifting gears”…

Actually, does anyone go as far back as the old Usenet groups back in the 90s? Or even more recently, the MW forum? In MW, when there was a back and forth feud between two in the Politics Thread, the mods always stepped in to both to them saying “Take it to private messaging” and not tie up the thread.

————————–

@tomcat

This is copied and pasted from the Google search:

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
et·i·quette
/ˈedəkət,ˈedəˌket/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: etiquette; plural noun: etiquettes

the customary code of polite behavior in society or among members of a particular profession or group.

What dictionary do you read?

————————————–

Also, I see some here wanting to take charge of the forum when they have no ownership of it. They want to “cancel” the members who aren’t like them, from another continent, not wanting them to have equal time or an equal say. They take sides with only those who they see as being members of their clique or tribe. They only want to count their own postings, something like the GOP only want their own votes to count but I digress…

You can’t do that when you have no ownership.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Al-x.

Al-x wrote:

You can’t do that when you have no ownership.

Nobody truly has ownership Al, I run the site but only because others contribute to the Patreon and Paypal. The Carrier (post Millarworld) is a co-operative model. It’s dumb to try and drive anyone out of a community built on a community funded model

That has changed the dynamic from previous scenarios where the ‘sponsor’ asked for agreement to his POV under the threat of shutting it down.

I don’t really get why this is a discussion topic though, our moderator thread is incredibly inactive.

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garjones wrote:

Al-x wrote:

You can’t do that when you have no ownership.

Nobody truly has ownership Al, I run the site but only because others contribute to the Patreon and Paypal. The Carrier (post Millarworld) is a co-operative model. It’s dumb to try and drive anyone out of a community built on a community funded model

That has changed the dynamic from previous scenarios where the ‘sponsor’ asked for agreement to his POV under the threat of shutting it down.

I don’t really get why this is a discussion topic though, our moderator thread is incredibly inactive.

I always took you to be the new “O’hara” to be honest.

We all regarded O’hara as having the final say when he took over the reins of Millarworld.

Al-x wrote:

Etiquette means manners, not making a scene, trolling, or having a public meltdown (#4)

Al-x wrote:

the customary code of polite behavior in society or among members of a particular profession or group.

You get that these aren’t the same thing, right?

Etiquette is following a formal set of rules, usually ones associated with class discrimination, but it can be the formal rules of a profession (such as how a lawyer must behave in court). Manners are technically just describing how you behave, but I assume you mean good manners which just means following cultural signals to ensure you are not inappropriately offending anyone. These are related, but distinct from each other. The main difference is that good manners are always in flux as society evolves. They change to reflect what people expect. Etiquette on the other hand is static and unchanging which is why you get odd things like lawyers wearing wigs in court.

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DavidM

njerry wrote:

garjones wrote:

This is the random thread which was created so you could comment on whatever you fancied without ever going off topic, why anyone wants to get random ‘back on track’ is a mystery to me.

Which reminds me — the Turkish Angora has a lifespan of 14 to 16 years.

Carry on.

Sorry for adding another post to this discussion, but is that the Angora Rabbit or Angora Goat?

DavidM wrote:

Sorry for adding another post to this discussion, but is that the Angora Rabbit or Angora Goat?

Yes.

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Todd

What is your favorite way to consume cheese?

Eating it on its own, with crackers or some other delivery option, melted on something, as an ingredient in something, or some other way?

While I do enjoy it as an ingredient in dishes, I think my favorite way is just eating slices or chunks of cheese on its own.

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Todd wrote:

What is your favorite way to consume cheese?

Suppository.

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Todd

Anonymous wrote:

Todd wrote:

What is your favorite way to consume cheese?

Suppository.

Does it feel Gouda?

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Dave

Todd wrote:

What is your favorite way to consume cheese?

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Sean Robinson, Todd

garjones wrote:

Take the Quran for example, there’s a passage that says a Muslim should never touch a wet dog and there’s another that says the prophet was buried with his pet hounds. So a lot of Muslims won’t go anywhere near a dog yet many happily have them as pets and as a consequence wash them. Who is right when the text gives two opposing suggestions?

I think the stuff about dogs is from the hadith rather than the quran. Many of the Islamic laws and customs come from the hadith, and the status of the hadith is not absolute like the quran, so it can be argued about. Some Muslims don’t accept the hadith at all, some only part of it etc.

Todd wrote:

What is your favorite way to consume cheese?

Caerphilly.

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Todd, njerry

Todd wrote:

Does it feel Gouda?

It’s a bit grating.

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Todd, njerry, Dave

Q. What cheese is made backwards?

A. None of them, all cheeses are made forwards.

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Todd

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

garjones wrote:

Take the Quran for example, there’s a passage that says a Muslim should never touch a wet dog and there’s another that says the prophet was buried with his pet hounds. So a lot of Muslims won’t go anywhere near a dog yet many happily have them as pets and as a consequence wash them. Who is right when the text gives two opposing suggestions?

I think the stuff about dogs is from the hadith rather than the quran. Many of the Islamic laws and customs come from the hadith, and the status of the hadith is not absolute like the quran, so it can be argued about. Some Muslims don’t accept the hadith at all, some only part of it etc.

I bow to your correction although really it serves very well to emphasise my point about picking and choosing.

Interestingly I just Googled and the first two Islamic sites I found said it was okay to keep dogs and the 3rd that it was strictly forbidden. All used quotations to justify their stance.

I like cheese in any way, not a fan of the overly stinky French cheese though. (but brie is faantastic)

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Todd

DavidM wrote:

Sorry for adding another post to this discussion, but is that the Angora Rabbit or Angora Goat?

A breed of cat, actually.

The Turkish Angora is a breed of domestic cat. Turkish Angoras are one of the ancient, natural breeds of cat, having originated in central Anatolia. The breed has been documented as early as the 17th century. The breed is also sometimes referred to as simply the Angora or Ankara cat.

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DavidM

Ok, that’s 4 posts on the subject. We need to stop now.

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Todd

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

not a fan of the overly stinky French cheese though.

While staying with my cousin near Manchester UK, I visited a cheese shop and bought something called Stinking Bishop. I tried some of it, which I really liked, then put the rest of it in her refrigerator for later enjoyment and promptly forgot about it.

After I returned home, my cousin called to let me know she found the cheese which I had left behind, but not before she had bathed her dog twice, thinking that he was responsible for that awful smell.

The moral of the story is: I love stinky cheese.

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Todd wrote:

What is your favorite way to consume cheese?

Any way it’s offered. Though there is something very special about a bacon and cheese toastie.

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DavidM wrote:

Ok, that’s 4 posts on the subject. We need to stop now.

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Dave, we have another thread for pictures…

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Todd, Dave

DavidM wrote:

Dave, we have another thread for pictures…

I shall agree to disagree on that.

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Tom Cat wrote:

Al-x wrote:

Etiquette means manners, not making a scene, trolling, or having a public meltdown (#4)

Al-x wrote:

the customary code of polite behavior in society or among members of a particular profession or group.

You get that these aren’t the same thing, right?

Etiquette is following a formal set of rules, usually ones associated with class discrimination, but it can be the formal rules of a profession (such as how a lawyer must behave in court). Manners are technically just describing how you behave, but I assume you mean good manners which just means following cultural signals to ensure you are not inappropriately offending anyone. These are related, but distinct from each other. The main difference is that good manners are always in flux as society evolves. They change to reflect what people expect. Etiquette on the other hand is static and unchanging which is why you get odd things like lawyers wearing wigs in court.

Fair point. You did say they are related implying an overlap. I wasn’t exactly splitting hairs. I take it that you get the overall point I was making about proper conduct in a forum.

Al-x wrote:

Xmas isn’t an original Xian holiday

Xian (Karma) is Buddhist not Christian. Why would she care about Christmas ?

Al-x wrote:

It is called Hypocrisy and contradicting yourself.

no it isn’t. getting Christmas presents and following a nutjob cult leader* have nothing to do with each other so calling out one does not preclude you from wanting the other.

 

*unless you believe Jesus Christ to be a nutjob cult leader, then my point is meaningless

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Al-x

What the fuck happened to Russell Brand? Dude got redpilled hard.

 

You have to wonder if there is someone researching and writing his material for his youtube stuff ( and wether their name ends in -ov) or if he does that himself.

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

What the fuck happened to Russell Brand? Dude got redpilled hard.

 

You have to wonder if there is someone researching and writing his material for his youtube stuff ( and wether their name ends in -ov) or if he does that himself.

Fame, Money, Katy Perry and an overwhelming self-importance brought on by the internet happened to Russel Brand. I think.

Note: He’s always been a smug bastard.

What’s he said now?

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Todd

As far as I can make out when he’s not doing a “funny voice” he’s been shilling some obvious bullshit claims by Russia about Ukraine.

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Todd

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

As far as I can make out when he’s not doing a “funny voice” he’s been shilling some obvious bullshit claims by Russia about Ukraine.

It’s hard to say. Watched his recent video on the biolabs in Ukraine. I disagree with it, but it’s his opinion and just as informed as anything I’d be able to post. However, the problem, of course, is that Brand, Rogan, Dore and even Oliver Stone have many more people watching them provide their half-baked opinions as if they do have some expertise when they are primarily entertainers – mostly comedians – and generally not to be taken seriously. And there are strong propaganda pushes that take advantage of them as well.

Obviously, after Iraq, Afghanistan, the Financial Crisis, we shouldn’t take any authority or news story at face value, but at the same time, we definitely shouldn’t give credence to a lot of commentary from people that have even less experience or access to information than those authorities and reporters that are directly speaking to the main actors or actually involved in analyzing it.

 

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Todd

If I recall correctly it was @arjandirkse who was into Zen meditation, but I will also address everyone on this:

This deep breathing exercise and meditating is supposed to soothe the nerves and really calm you down.

Anyone tried this?

Anonymous wrote:

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

As far as I can make out when he’s not doing a “funny voice” he’s been shilling some obvious bullshit claims by Russia about Ukraine.

It’s hard to say. Watched his recent video on the biolabs in Ukraine. I disagree with it, but it’s his opinion and just as informed as anything I’d be able to post. However, the problem, of course, is that Brand, Rogan, Dore and even Oliver Stone have many more people watching them provide their half-baked opinions as if they do have some expertise when they are primarily entertainers – mostly comedians – and generally not to be taken seriously. And there are strong propaganda pushes that take advantage of them as well.

Obviously, after Iraq, Afghanistan, the Financial Crisis, we shouldn’t take any authority or news story at face value, but at the same time, we definitely shouldn’t give credence to a lot of commentary from people that have even less experience or access to information than those authorities and reporters that are directly speaking to the main actors or actually involved in analyzing it.

 

Basically Brand’s shtick, and that of many othetr people, seems to be “always question the narrative.” That can be OK, (and I did it myself with covid I realize) but here I think it’s off and it leads to making excuses for an aggressive war. I was always a bit skeptical about the Russian fake news thing, but this is very blatant. “Hmmm what should we tell people when they ask why we’re invading Ukraine….uh, there are these joint American Ukrainian bio research labs, let’s tell people they are making deadly pathogens to kill innocent Russians.”

 

It’s very ironic that it’s people like Greenwald who did a lot to spread the story (Brand was reading from greenwald’s substack) that they’re some of the biggest critics of the Iraq war, but they’re using the same WMD disinfo to create sympathy for the side of the aggressor now.

 

You’re right about the news as entertainment thing of course. That is very corrosive.

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

“Hmmm what should we tell people when they ask why we’re invading Ukraine….uh, there are these joint American Ukrainian bio research labs, let’s tell people they are making deadly pathogens to kill innocent Russians.”   It’s very ironic that it’s people like Greenwald who did a lot to spread the story (Brand was reading from greenwald’s substack) that they’re some of the biggest critics of the Iraq war, but they’re using the same WMD disinfo to create sympathy for the side of the aggressor now.

Yeah, I felt the same way. None of the information Brand shared would suggest that these laboratories were producing offensive weapons – fairly much the opposite – and we just had a pandemic so these labs are only going to become more prevalent (with good and bad consequences). However, I don’t see how anyone that read the article or saw the video would not come away with the impression “we can’t say these are bio-weapons labs… but they are bio-weapons labs.”

That’s generally the criticism I’d lay at Rogan, Brand, Dore and others in the “progressive conspiracy wing”. They defend themselves with the sort of “We’re just asking questions” theory, but they are really making statements with clear implications and disguising them as questions.

Bellingcat said Dore received money from a pro-Assad lobby group. Wouldn’t surprise me if Tulsi Gabbard did too.

 

Rogan is a bit different, he is a bit in that “Intellectual dark web” circle now with the Weinstein brothers and Jordan Peterson. Eric Weinstein is close to Peter Thiel.

Al-x wrote:

If I recall correctly it was @arjandirkse who was into Zen meditation, but I will also address everyone on this:

This deep breathing exercise and meditating is supposed to soothe the nerves and really calm you down.

Anyone tried this?

It works for me, but it is not some kind of universal panacea. What I do is just try sitting still (or lying down, or slowly strolling in a beautiful landscape) and trying not to think of daily nonsense, or concentrate on something that has special meaning for me. Or meditate listening to birdsong or something like that. (Real birds outside).

 

The breath is not that important for me when meditating, other than you have to keep breathing or else you die. ;)

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Todd, Al-x

Ok.

I get the focusing on something soothing and breathing away some stress and tension.

YouTube got some videos of soothing sounds and music. I knew a girl once who had a soothing voice and calmed me down,
almost like Black Widow calming down the Hulk and making him Bruce again. Can’t go wrong with a soothing voice.

Al-x wrote:

Ok.

I get the focusing on something soothing and breathing away some stress and tension.

YouTube got some videos of soothing sounds and music. I knew a girl once who had a soothing voice and calmed me down,
almost like Black Widow calming down the Hulk and making him Bruce again. Can’t go wrong with a soothing voice.

I would try not to use youtube videos for meditation, getting in touch with real nature works better for me. Do you have a nice park area nearby with trees and maybe animals where you can walk? We did walking meditation when I was in a Buddhist monastery which was really good.

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Todd

With meditation it is important not to expect all your worries and troubles to go away directly. Rather it is a way to be free from external distraction so you’re alone with your thoughts. Those thoughts are still there they don’t just disappear. What is important is not to give disturbing thoughts extra attention, but let them be,  and they eventually dissolve naturally. Like when you listen to birds singing. It is a sound that is produced and goes away again.

 

So thoughts will still come, just try not the run after them. You could try observing your thoughts, like a neutral observer.

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Todd

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

“always question the narrative.”

My problem with these people is more often than not they are unwilling to accept the answer or they already are working with confirmation bias and just looking for something to agree with their belief. It is almost as bad as “doing my own research”

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lorcan_nagle, Todd

It’s probably a common self preservation emotional strategy. It is more comfortable to believe in a dubious theory that satisfies one’s preconceptions than to accept absolute uncertainty that can challenge them. We’re all in that position now and are shopping for the most attractive explanations and predictions rather. Everyone says “keep an open mind” but it is your mind they’re talking about and it will fight back when threatened.

Hatred works in something of the same way. Inherent in every person are self destructive urges and projecting them outward is the most natural way to prevent harm to oneself. For some, the urges are overwhelming like a phobia, but I imagine everyone feels it to some extent.

I can remember two members (not mentioning names) posting and one mentioned
the “what about” argumentation.

I looked it up and found some of critical thinking analysis, making your points,
and argumentation. Most likely this all in some debate class material and law school
stuff.

Here is a wiki link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Interesting article with a subheading on Tr*mp, Russia’s historical back and forth with the US (ie, when the US argued
with Russia on human rights, Russia retorts mentioning the lynchings in the South).

I might get into more argumentation techniques and spotting fallacies. If I have the time.

Al-x wrote:

I might get into more argumentation techniques and spotting fallacies. If I have the time.

If you’re interested in this subject then this (fairly old!) book is worth a read – I remember reading it early on when I was getting ready to study law.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_and_Crooked_Thinking

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Al-x

A joke I read today: why does Oedipus never swear?

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JRCarter wrote:

A joke I read today: why does Oedipus never swear?

Well he’s a motherfucker so it’s easy to return the insult…something like that?

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Close.

Because he kisses his mother with that mouth.

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DavidM, Arjan Dirkse, Todd

Yeah I’m going there. 😂

Hershey’s looked so wonderful in ads in the back of Marvel comics, it’s really bad.

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Martin Smith, DavidM, Ben, lorcan_nagle, Todd

If I had to make a choice there, I’d go with Sour Patch Kids. But only because there is no option there for licorice-based sweets.

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DavidM, garjones

I listen to the comedian Steve Hoffstetter on YouTube. He thinks so fast when it comes to hecklers in the audience. He has the experience and knows how to get the crowd and win them over.

I liked Steven Wright a lot in his day. These days on HBO and Netflix, ladies like Amy Schumer and Whitney Cummings are all about the dating scene in the big city, men’s habits, porn, sexting d*ck picks.
Blacks and Hispanics are about the Hood, the police, social issues. Those new to the US are about immigration, culture clash, reactions they get from Americans.

Hoffstetter thinks fast on his feet and I like that.

Heh I just went to a webshop and I got a pop-up saying the site was closed on Sunday because of their Christian beliefs. Never saw that before.

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Todd

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

Heh I just went to a webshop and I got a pop-up saying the site was closed on Sunday because of their Christian beliefs. Never saw that before.

There’s an Oxfam near me that briefly had DAY OF REST written on their opening hours for Sunday, but it was rapidly changed to just say closed. I suspect someone got a stern talking to.

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Hey, day of rest is one of the better things we got from the Bible. I’m not arguing with anybody that wants to invoke it.

You know that viral thing “How it started” and “How its going”

Well…

I used on the old blue on black Authority boards with WonK and others. Millar stepped in and
told us about his new project the Ultimates and his own board Millarworld. A few switched and I
eventually did. They all discussed Millar, Hitch, the reimagined story at the time. Then, we were
all waiting over the delay of the next issue, and some were getting into these vs. threads. So, I
decided to humbly post an ethics thread on buying vintage comics at a yard sale off an ignorant old
lady. Everyone chimed in and had fun, even MM himself. That is how it all started.

If it wasn’t for that delay, I’d have saved myself so many years. 😂😂😂

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njerry

[Arjan Dirkse]

Why are most flags so boring? Bhutan’s flag has to be the best:

 

 

 

edit: oh, forgot about Wales, that one is badass too.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Arjan Dirkse.

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DavidM

[Arjan Dirkse]

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

Why are most flags so boring? Bhutan’s flag has to be the best:

 

 

 

edit: oh, forgot about Wales, that one is badass too.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Arjan Dirkse.

While I appreciate the inclusion of something a little more intricately designed and culturally significant than say, a circle to represent the sun or a cross to reprent a christian nation on a flag, I am not a fan of that white dragon. Looks like it’s from a childrens colouring book.

That said, it’s entirely possible the white dragon was chosen for some cultural or practical reason beyond my current understanding and it’s not like I’m saying the flag would be better without it.

Some of my favourites (based entirely on what they look like):

My personal favourite.

Very simple. It’s a nice touch that the star isn’t filled in. The Israel flag does the same thing, but I’m not a fan of the colour scheme.

I was obsessed with this flag when I was a wee kid. Not sure why, maybe because it had shapes inside shapes or something.

Love this one. Hard to mistake for another country.

I don’t know the cultural significance or symbolism of what is depicted here, but I like it.

This one really pops.

So simple.

It is the keys that sells it for me. Some nice details on there.

Anyone able to name all of these flags? There are hints in the URLs if you don’t already know them. ;)

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Arjan Dirkse

[Arjan Dirkse]

Anonymous wrote:

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

Why are most flags so boring? Bhutan’s flag has to be the best:

 

 

 

edit: oh, forgot about Wales, that one is badass too.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Arjan Dirkse.

While I appreciate the inclusion of something a little more intricately designed and culturally significant than say, a circle to represent the sun or a cross to reprent a christian nation on a flag, I am not a fan of that white dragon. Looks like it’s from a childrens colouring book.

That said, it’s entirely possible the white dragon was chosen for some cultural or practical reason beyond my current understanding and it’s not like I’m saying the flag would be better without it.

Some of my favourites (based entirely on what they look like):

My personal favourite.

Very simple. It’s a nice touch that the star isn’t filled in. The Israel flag does the same thing, but I’m not a fan of the colour scheme.

I was obsessed with this flag when I was a wee kid. Not sure why, maybe because it had shapes inside shapes or something.

Love this one. Hard to mistake for another country.

I don’t know the cultural significance or symbolism of what is depicted here, but I like it.

This one really pops.

So simple.

It is the keys that sells it for me. Some nice details on there.

Anyone able to name all of these flags? There are hints in the URLs if you don’t already know them. ;)

The three legs is the Isle of Man isn’t it? That is pretty cool. The Vatican one is nice too. The others are Morocco, Cyprus, Brazil, North Macedonia and two others I don’t recognize.

 

I like the old flag of Habsburg Spain, it looks appropriately menacing:

 

 

 

• This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Arjan Dirkse.

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

two others I don’t recognize

Seychelles and Vietnam, in the order in which they appear.

A challenger appears:

 

Looks like the result of an elementary school contest.

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Todd

Well you are right, but it’s better than three coloured bars like so many flags are.

 

I also kind of like the Argetinian flag. The blue is pretty and the sun face is well drawn.

 

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Surprised the flag of Mozambique hasn’t been mentioned yet.

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Christian

It is amazing that some people can go on tv, hit someone in the face, then win an award and get a standing ovation.

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Chris Rock had it coming to him for getting that divorce.

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garjones, njerry, Martin Smith, Todd, lorcan_nagle

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

hit someone in the face

Hit an elderly man, even. Chris Rock is 57.

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DavidM, lorcan_nagle

Tbh… On that slap seen and heard around the world

There is a LOT to get into on Jada’s alopecia that causes her to lose her hair, the constant jokes made on their “open” marriage, infidelity, Will getting fed up and frustrated, a black man standing up for his wife, striking another black man in a predominantly white venue, etc.

If you are interested, go to the social media platforms like Twitter and some TikTok snippets under the hashtags and it is all there.

I won’t get into it as I am not a militant keyboard social justice warrior. I shed light on some things but I don’t have to post an opinion or “set the record straight” on EVERY subject. That can be so tiring as in 24/7.

Actually, what I would like to get into is the question: “How biting should a comedian’s material be?” I am sure that a lot of standup routine people will be reevaluating things from this point on. For example, I know that Ricky Gervais said things that were very cutting to the Hollywood crowd when he hosted the Golden Globes.

It will be interesting to see where comedy goes from here.

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

Why are most flags so boring? Bhutan’s flag has to be the best:

Thanks for starting this, Arjan! I took it to Discord and am now involved in at least two separate and stimulating converstaions about vexillology! :D

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Al-x wrote:

I am sure that a lot of standup routine people will be reevaluating things from this point on.

Well in some places you can go to jail for saying offensive shit (technically including my country)…I would prefer Will Smith’s slap. However it is still stupid and childish.

 

I am favor of taking someone’s platform away when they’re being a nuisance and saying offensive shit non stop, but to forcefully shut someone up or threaten jail or violence for speech is wrong to me. It puts a chill on discourse and infantilizes society. Will Smith should have been escorted off the premises by security.

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Chris D

Yeah. I mean, assuming Chris Rock knew about Jada’s condition, it was a rude joke. But a comedian making a bad/insensitive joke is par for the course with comedy and is certainly nothing new at the Oscars. You don’t get to go around slapping comedians for making bad jokes . And if you do, you should be removed from the situation, not celebrated. That was just some toxic masculinity that a lot of people applauding him normally decry. But this is the same group of people who spent years glorifying Weinstein and gave Polanski awards and standing ovations so I guess it’s no real surprise.

Although I will say I was unaware of her condition and honestly thought the joke was a compliment when he first said it…being compared to a badass Demi Moore in her prime and all. I was like, yeah, Jada is rocking that shaved head. If Will had kept his cool the whole thing would have been forgotten or just featured as a tasteless lowlight from Rock after the show.

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DavidM, JRCarter, Sean Robinson, Todd

Al-x wrote:

Actually, what I would like to get into is the question: “How biting should a comedian’s material be?” I am sure that a lot of standup routine people will be reevaluating things from this point on. For example, I know that Ricky Gervais said things that were very cutting to the Hollywood crowd when he hosted the Golden Globes.

It is a good question. In a lot of the jokes, they are taking the air out of the self-importance of celebrities – like Sean Penn insisting that the Awards let Zelensky speak or he’ll melt down his Oscars. This is a war, not a war movie – only someone really out of touch would think that bringing Zelensky to the Oscars would do anything other than hurt his position and Ukraine’s cause. However, he wasn’t alone. The Academy organizers were considering it.

That was Gervais’ approach. Very biting and more than a little mean, but he was attacking unearned arrogance, influence and an outsized sense of significance due to celebrity status. Rock’s previous jokes against the Smiths also fell along those lines, but this one hit a bit more personal and I doubt Rock was actually aware why she shaved her head. It was a jab more appropriate for a roast than this, but… Will Smith laughed at it too until he saw her reaction.

Will Smith Apologizes to Chris Rock for Oscars Slap: ‘I Was Out of Line and I Was Wrong’ (msn.com)

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Todd

So, I don’t necessarily agree with Smith’s actions, but if I was at one of the biggest award shows and the guy on stage started making fun of my wife’s long-term illness I can’t guarantee I wouldn’t do the same thing.

Is it a bad decision? Yup, but humans are irrational creatures and often make bad decisions.
Is there toxic masculinity wrapped up in this? Yup, and we can’t escape that.
Is this a stifling of free speech? No, and the moral panic over a moment that got heated and lead to unfortunate outcomes is by turns hilarious and stupid.

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