Politics Discussion: Cynicism Always Warranted

Topic

Talk about politics here.

Probably quite a quiet thread at the moment I expect.

Replies

njerry wrote:

Some parents punish misbehaving children by taking away their videogames, or their phone, or television time. Some parents punish their kids by sending them to their room or grounding them. And some parents punish their kids by spanking them or hitting them with a belt or breaking their arm. The US and NATO have taken away Putin’s videogames first, rather than grabbing the belt.

Did that ever work for you when you were a kid? It didn’t for me and I grew up in the days of spanking. Take all my comics and never let me watch television, if I thought I was right, I’d take whatever they were willing to dish out.

Essentially, this is warfare. No one can deny that. Historically, the only time the Russians have backed down is when it was clear the other major powers of the world would be willing to directly engage them on the battlefield. If that isn’t made clear, then I suspect our forces will be directly engaging them on the battlefield anyway because Putin will assume the West is not willing to risk nuclear war while he obviously is.

There is no reason to believe there is a safe, right or risk-free way to resolve this situation, and I imagine the Biden administration is taking this course because it is the least risk to and most gain for the US interests rather than they believe it will do anything stop the invasion.

JRCarter wrote:

Emmett Till Antilynching Act heads to Biden’s desk

200 times Congress failed to pass antilynching legislation.

Two.

Hundred.

Times.

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JRCarter, Todd

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

I don’t understand why lynching needs special legislation. Isn’t is just another name for “murder”, and don’t you already have laws that make murder illegal?

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Dave

DavidM wrote:

I don’t understand why lynching needs special legislation. Isn’t is just another name for “murder”, and don’t you already have laws that make murder illegal?

It’s a good question. I might be wrong but reading that article (and some others) the nuance seems to be that it would incorporate aspects of conspiracy in a hate crime leading to a lynching, and have all of those aspects punishable by extended sentences compared to those that are possible under the current law.

So playing up the hate crime and mob element to make all involved culpable and punishable.

Looking at the recent history it seems as though previous similar bills have been derailed by arguments over definitions of the ultimate injury necessary for something to be considered a lynching.

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DavidM

[Al-x]

The woman who started it all when she lied about Emmett Till is still alive.
She obviously is in hiding, but there is now this huge petition that she
should face charges.

As for anyone saying “It is too long ago, she is old now”, please keep in mind
that Jewish organizations are still pursuing Nazi soldiers and trying to bring
them to justice over the Holocaust despite their age now.

————

There is also this thing in the US about “white women’s tears”. While white women historically never had the authority in themselves, they could however, manipulate their husband or partner to rally a huge mob to “defend their honor” taking advantage of the racial tension.

So sometimes they lie about some incident like the one in the Emmett Till case. In the office, some cry and say things to control a narrative in the office about some colleague and of course, they are given the benefit of the doubt.

It is called these days “weaponizing” of tears. A “Karen” who calls the police and lies etc…

• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Al-x.

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DavidM, Todd, JRCarter

DavidM wrote:

I don’t understand why lynching needs special legislation. Isn’t is just another name for “murder”, and don’t you already have laws that make murder illegal?

Lynching is more closely related to vigilantism, so it implies more conspiratorial planning among a group combined with the intent to impose a terroristic threat to the larger community. The crime is not directed solely to the immediate victim or victims of the lynching, but also is an implied threat to other members in the community. It’s meant to provide an example.

Though honestly, there are few hate crimes that are not also covered by other criminal codes that do not consider race, sex or orientation, but since this is a terrorist act, it should have stronger punishments available.

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Todd

Surprisingly interesting perspective on Russia just after the collapse of the Soviet Union from the late (not so great) Richard Nixon as he warns that a “New Despotism with the overtone of old Imperial Russia” could lead to a threat even worse than the totalitarian Soviet state.

Richard Nixon 1992 – YouTube

 

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Todd

[JRCarter]

House passes bill to prohibit discrimination based on hair

I know this seems very minor, but considering how biased standards of beauty are towards more Eurocentric values…

• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by JRCarter.

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DavidM, lorcan_nagle, Ben, Todd

Erdogan is a bastard but he seems to be more of a Realpolitiker than the imcompetent morons in Western countries.

 

Ukraine conflict: Putin lays out his demands in Turkish phone call – BBC

Democrats’ Odds to Win 2022 Midterms Improve—Bookmakers (newsweek.com)

Predictions Doom for Joe Biden and Democrats Are Wildly Overstated | The New Republic

Arguing against the evidence for a GOP wave election seems akin to writing a halftime speech for the coach of a Saturday YMCA pickup basketball team suddenly transported into the NCAA tournament.

Yet an argument can be made that it is jumping the gun—and perhaps even wrong—to consign the Democrats to political disaster more than eight months before the off-year elections. I am not trying to be unrealistically optimistic, since the current numbers for Biden and the Democrats are indeed daunting. And no one wants to emulate the liberal true believer who wrote a book on the eve of Richard Nixon’s 49-state 1972 sweep, titled, How McGovern Won the Presidency and Why the Polls Were Wrong.

Jeremy Hunt talking sense (surprisingly).

Those criticizing Nazanin have got it so wrong. She doesn’t owe us gratitude: we owe her an explanation…

— Jeremy Hunt (@Jeremy_Hunt) March 22, 2022

I’m still convinced that if/when Johnson is deposed, Hunt will emerge as the designated sensible centrist candidate for leadership. Whether the Tories want a sensible centrist leader is another issue entirely of course.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

Biden on Russia’s Putin: `This man cannot remain in power’

Has a Russian head of state been deposed since the Romanovs?

[JRCarter]

Double post.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by JRCarter.

JRCarter wrote:

Has a Russian head of state been deposed since the Romanovs?

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Todd

Khrushchev obviously would be the model here.

Khrushchev’s rivals in the Communist party deposed him largely due to his erratic and cantankerous behavior, regarded by the party as a tremendous embarrassment on the international stage. The failures in agriculture, the quarrel with China, and the humiliating resolution of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis added to the growing resentment of Khrushchev’s own arbitrary administrative methods, were the major factors in his downfall.

On October 14, 1964, after a palace coup orchestrated by his “loyal” protégé and deputy, Leonid Brezhnev, the Central Committee forced Khrushchev to retire from his position as the party’s first secretary and Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Soviet Union because of his “advanced age and poor health.”

Erratic and cantankerous behavior, international embarrassment, arbitrary administrative methods and humiliation in the Ukraine would apply here for an enforced retirement.

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DavidM, Todd, JRCarter

I think it’s wry but kind of hilarious how the Saudis and Emiratis declined to speak to Biden when he called them on the phone to ask if they could just pump a bit more oil into the market to make up for the loss of Russian oil. The large powers in Asia, and much of the Middle East isn’t on the same frequency as the West in this conflict. The fact that China and India and Pakistan didn’t condemn the Russian invasion should be food for thinking vis a vis our tunnel vision.

There’s a lot of nuance here. It is important we don’t just ignore and wave away the invasion of sovereign territories or we’ll get more of it. Pakistan and India are almost entirely reliant on Russian gas for energy so I don’t know if they are making any huge geopolitical statement or more serving their own interests.

The west though does have a politics that likes the sound of its own voice. There is a default rush to publicly condemn and try and phrase it in the most stern way possible. This isn’t generally that useful because the default response is to double down. I don’t disagree with it but there is no useful outcome from Biden saying Putin should be deposed.

Generally we need to change how our energy needs are met, a huge amount of conflict is spurred on by that. The entire system is enormously rigged, a friend of mine works in the oil business and the barrels of oil currently valued at over $100 actually cost $3 to extract. Countries with access to it are swimming in money because they’ve rigged a system that delivers them 97% margin on their product.

I’d love to move to a scenario where Biden ignores Saudi Arabia’s calls because they are a malignant force in world politics in every way that are coddled because they sit on the biggest supply.

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DavidM, Todd, Arjan Dirkse, lorcan_nagle, Dave

They know…

They know all about Thomas’ wife and what she was doing:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/forget-oscar-slap-theres-news-175000299.html

garjones wrote:

The west though does have a politics that likes the sound of its own voice. There is a default rush to publicly condemn and try and phrase it in the most stern way possible. This isn’t generally that useful because the default response is to double down. I don’t disagree with it but there is no useful outcome from Biden saying Putin should be deposed.

 

It’s quite short sighted. You don’t really know who’s going to depose Putin if that happens, how that goes, if the country sinks into civil war and maybe some real fascist takes over (I know you could call Putin a fascist but there are worse people in Russia who could take over.)

 

I think we were also quick to think Russians would turn on Putin. I think there’s little chance of that happening really. If Russia suffer economically, Putin will just blame the West and play the strong leader who resists the West. Frankly I think the way Western countries are playing this naive and irresponsible.

garjones wrote:

There’s a lot of nuance here. It is important we don’t just ignore and wave away the invasion of sovereign territories or we’ll get more of it. Pakistan and India are almost entirely reliant on Russian gas for energy so I don’t know if they are making any huge geopolitical statement or more serving their own interests.

The west though does have a politics that likes the sound of its own voice. There is a default rush to publicly condemn and try and phrase it in the most stern way possible. This isn’t generally that useful because the default response is to double down. I don’t disagree with it but there is no useful outcome from Biden saying Putin should be deposed.

Generally we need to change how our energy needs are met, a huge amount of conflict is spurred on by that. The entire system is enormously rigged, a friend of mine works in the oil business and the barrels of oil currently valued at over $100 actually cost $3 to extract. Countries with access to it are swimming in money because they’ve rigged a system that delivers them 97% margin on their product.

I’d love to move to a scenario where Biden ignores Saudi Arabia’s calls because they are a malignant force in world politics in every way that are coddled because they sit on the biggest supply.

like everything in politics, it requires a hard recognition of the trade offs. Everything is a trade off. We can shift energy production but that might mean a long period of high prices and unreliable power and utilities as we transition and slowly build infrastructure. It might mean less influence in international affairs and lower profits, lower wages and shrinking economy.

There is no perfect solution to serious political, social and economic problems so we hope our system can determine immediate priorities and then we have to decide as a society if we are willing to pay the costs of achieving those priorities and deal with new problems they will bring. There is no option for perfection or utopia on the table and there never has been.

however, we’ve certainly seen politicians get wedded to their solutions and ideologies so when a policy doesn’t work, they’ll double down to try to force a solution that only worsens the problem. That’s the point of democracy and limited government power is that it lets the people stop something and get people out of power when things are going wrong.

that’s a lot of the problem is that politicians and officials downplay the costs of their policies because we vote for the people that tell us what we want to hear, but we should be listening to the ones that tell us what we don’t want to hear. That’s the main test of honesty.

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Todd

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

I think we were also quick to think Russians would turn on Putin. I think there’s little chance of that happening really.

It does seem so. Conflict actually tends to increase the popularity of leaders.

We do tend to view these things through our lens which is not how the Russian people are seeing, very early on people in the west were expecting some revolution and amplifying protests but for now at least those seem to be from a minority.

Anonymous wrote:

however, we’ve certainly seen politicians get wedded to their solutions and ideologies so when a policy doesn’t work,

I agree but I also thing self interest plays a massive part. A lot of players are part of a system that enjoys and benefits from the 97% markup on what they produce. While they consume more than they produce so aren’t OPEC members the US and the UK are oil producers that have a lot of people that profit from the status quo and lobbyists to prop it up.

Looking at Denmark’s response to the 1970s oil crisis I’m not sure there is necessarily a lot of pain in a long term move to switch energy dependence (they moved from 92% imported energy to 17% – most of which is a hydro plant just over the border) but we rarely do long term plans very well, everything is about the next election cycle.

 

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Todd

Yeah, the thing is finding a way to make sure those interests are also aligned with the priorities. We aren’t going to be transitioning the global energy system to anything without Exxon, OPEC, Russia and China on board with it. That’s part of the trade off. The interests maintaining the status quo are too powerful to fight and accomplish anything so they are going to have to materially benefit from any changes.

 

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Todd

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cb6GoDdDpT4/?utm_medium=copy_link

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garjones wrote:

There’s a lot of nuance here. It is important we don’t just ignore and wave away the invasion of sovereign territories or we’ll get more of it. Pakistan and India are almost entirely reliant on Russian gas for energy so I don’t know if they are making any huge geopolitical statement or more serving their own interests.

Germany: “Invasion is bad, we hate you. Here’s 3 billion euros for your gas.”

Pakistan & India: *quietly declining to be hypocritical*

 

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lorcan_nagle

Asked if the prime minister had misled Parliament, Mr Rees-Mogg told a caller on LBC: “The fact that the prime minister was given wrong information doesn’t mean he misled people.

“The prime minister said he was told the rules were followed but that turns out not to be correct.

“If the prime minister is told information that is incorrect and passes that information on he has made no deliberate attempt to mislead anybody.”

You know, if the Prime Minister was struggling to understand the rules, he could have watched one of those Covid update broadcasts they had on the TV literally every single night. They spelled everything out pretty clearly.

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Martin Smith, Todd, lorcan_nagle, Ben

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

Biden: Putin should face war crimes trial for Bucha killings

So far, there have been 410 bodies numbered. Before this, the population of Bucha was 36,971.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/trump-t-help-swipe-john-124249050.html

 

Well, even after all that McCain went through, he still had it in for those who were oppressed.

He voted against MLK birthday being a national holiday and other things. He made snide remarks

running against Obama at the time.

 

Don’t even get started on his daughter and her views.

 

Then Tr*mp got on him saying he wasn’t a war hero because he got captured and it was on…

I don’t believe in karma but did McCain deserve those cheap shots?

DavidM wrote:

Germany: “Invasion is bad, we hate you. Here’s 3 billion euros for your gas.” Pakistan & India: *quietly declining to be hypocritical*

It’s a fair point David and large swathes of Western Europe basically only have themselves to blame for that reliance on Russian gas. They powered themselves without it during the Soviet era and have known the problems for many years, threats have been there to cut off supplies in various forms for over a decade.

They remain less reliant than India and Pakistan but yeah they are handing over massive amounts of cash while condemning Russia at the same time.

garjones wrote:

David and large swathes of Western Europe basically only have themselves to blame

Everyone is their own worst enemy. Particularly David.

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Sean Robinson, DavidM, garjones, Todd

Al-x wrote:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/trump-t-help-swipe-john-124249050.html

 

Well, even after all that McCain went through, he still had it in for those who were oppressed.

He voted against MLK birthday being a national holiday and other things. He made snide remarks

running against Obama at the time.

 

Don’t even get started on his daughter and her views.

 

Then Tr*mp got on him saying he wasn’t a war hero because he got captured and it was on…

I don’t believe in karma but did McCain deserve those cheap shots?

McCain should be criticized for plenty of things, but cheap shots at his service record sure as hell didn’t hurt McCain. If anything those were a gift to his legacy. Because watching a spoiled, whiny brat of a president who was also a known draft dodger essentially make fun of a guy for surviving being a POW and then coming home to serve the country in congress until his dying day more likely than not cemented McCain’s legacy as a maverick, and all that nonsense he liked to sell, to independents and more moderate Dems out there. McCain dealt with far worse in his life than the asshat that is Donald Trump.

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Todd

Chris D wrote:

the asshat that is Donald Trump.

I guess that’s my cue:

Ivanka Trump to testify Tuesday before House Jan. 6 committee

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Todd

And because this chick apparently feels the need to remind us she exists:

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene Condemned For One Of Her Vilest Tweets Yet

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Todd

Trump was rightly banned from Twitter for his vile and misleading posts. Time for MTG to get the same treatment.

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Rocket, Chris D, Todd, JRCarter

njerry wrote:

Trump was rightly banned from Twitter for his vile and misleading posts. Time for MTG to get the same treatment.

Indeed. Of course now that Elon Musk is going to be on the board of Twitter, who knows where things will go with them. Musk might as well be Hank Scorpio…

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JRCarter, Todd

Chris D wrote:

njerry wrote:

Trump was rightly banned from Twitter for his vile and misleading posts. Time for MTG to get the same treatment.

Indeed. Of course now that Elon Musk is going to be on the board of Twitter, who knows where things will go with them. Musk might as well be Hank Scorpio…

No, it’s completely different. People and employees actually liked Hank Scorpio.

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Tom Cat, lorcan_nagle, JRCarter, Chris D

You have to realize that this guys vote in a booth for example, counts just as much as
some woke progressive Phd person on the left:

This guy said ANTIFA was behind the January 6th attack. We asked him one follow up question and things got awkward. pic.twitter.com/3PRNMGWgiE

— The Good Liars (@TheGoodLiars) April 6, 2022

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Todd

Sure it does but essentially there will always be big section of the population that will only vote one way. This guy will back his ‘team’ from cradle to the grave, the kinds of people who make the effort to go to political rallies and conferences and wear political hats are not really swing voters.

So this kind of thing can move people to laugher or despair but in the grand scheme of things doesn’t matter much in an election (a different matter when the bullshit emboldens them to try to storm the capitol).

The real concern for Democrats is scenarios like we saw in 2016 where Obama voters went for Trump because he promised something different and the Democrats didn’t understand their needs. It continues to be a failing in leftist policies that they consider social security to be a solution and not a sticking plaster. You know from my politics that I am fervently behind a strong social safety net but cities with few jobs and better government cheques are still depressing places. I’ve been to ex industrial areas in Wales where half the population is on welfare or disability and it is a grim place nobody wants to be. People are happiest with purpose and direction.

The left fall short in looking for solutions to fix the fundamental issues that face these communities and need to get new ones.

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Al-x

[Al-x]

It is so true. The Dems and the left have dropped the proverbial ball so many times and the midterms this November is slated to be a bloodbath.

It isn’t enough to say that the GOP has a lot of crazies (Marjorie, Boebert), KKK, and @$$holes with their racist double standards and stupid quotes. I mean Tr*mp still got over 70M votes for all his stupid quotes, Stormi Daniels, kids in cages, proposed wall, smoking gun evidence of cheating and scandal.

This interview above with the MAGA people has been covered in the Trevor Noah show and their interviews at T*mp rallies. Bill Maher calls the US a stupid country. Those things just aren’t enough to wake people up. If anything, it is just a realization and sad commentary on how the US education system wasn’t all that successful

Dems also don’t read the room well enough. We all know about Biden and Kamala, but Bernie talks his socialism about free this, free that, and student loan forgiveness that catches the ears of young graduates who are deep in the red as soon as they throw up their caps. But socialism is a word with mixed interpretations in the States. AOC is trying to define it more, but that’s it.

What are all the real issues: Covid, jobs, social injustice, debt forgiveness, gas prices, all of the above and more?

Then there is this voter suppression plan to rig everything to the GOP favor to almost guarantee all the crucial swing states. And Dems like Sinema who apparently turned “traitor”.

Wow…

————————–

I was channel surfing and caught those talking heads on the View show. One of them was reading the record of the woman judge the GOP rushed in to take Ginsburg’s seat. The reading was that Amy Cohen Barrett never was a judge in this and that, and other things she didn’t do and has no experience in, while the GOP is raking the Black Harvard woman over the coals and Ketanji has more judging/trail experience than 4 of some SCOTUS members combined.

Whoopi said something off about Polls that they take a survey of a small portion and say that is how it is for everything. That is true, but she just doesn’t know more about the field of statistics and the methods made to test and ensure how accurate it is to extrapolate from a small sample and conclude that it is more or less that way with the whole.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.

Officer? I would like to report a joke. https://t.co/3ournv9RwG

— Jimmy Kimmel (@jimmykimmel) April 6, 2022

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Todd

The Senate has voted 100-0 on bills to sanction Russia.

Has Putin done more to bring together the American left and right than any politician in American history?

DavidM wrote:

The Senate has voted 100-0 on bills to sanction Russia.

Has Putin done more to bring together the American left and right than any politician in American history?

Most Americans will pick jingoism and Imperialism over their internal differences

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Al-x, Christian, JRCarter, Todd

DavidM wrote:

Germany: “Invasion is bad, we hate you. Here’s 3 billion euros for your gas.”

Pakistan & India: *quietly declining to be hypocritical*

I don’t know man. Is staying silent concerning a full-scale invasion and war crimes really just not being hypocritical? Or is it a reaction to being even more beholden to the aggressor than Germany is?

Sure it would be less hypocritical if Germany also sanctioned Russian gas, and as Gar says, German politicians – as others in Europe – have nobody to blame but themselves for their dependency on Russian gas. Fucking Scholz was pushing the Northstream 2 pipeline right up until the invasion actually happened. But if we can’t go all the way in separating ourselves from Russia right now – and we can’t because right at this moment at least, it’d mean crashing our economy pretty much completely – does that really mean we should be supporting them in their crimes, or stay silent and watch quietly? Is that really the better way?

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Arjan Dirkse

Yeah that makes this conflict insane.

 

Really in a sane world Germany and Russia would partner up and give America a subtle notification that the time of the “grand chessboard” strategy, of sowing strife between Russia and Western Europe, is over. With Putin in charge that is not going to happen obviously.

 

I still think despite Putin being the worst most bloodthirsty player in the conflict right now, the Western countries and also the Ukrainian leadership also carry some of the blame. Russia has valid territorial claims in Crimea and Ukraine has to meet them half way. The Donbas is another matter, that region is not as pro-Russian as Crimea.

 

The odd thing with Ukraine ethnically is a lot of people speak Russian as their first language, about 50 % of the country, but not all of them identify as Russian. But 20 %, or about 10 million people, speak and identify as Russian, and many of them support Putin. But I think in Kiev most people speak Russian in their daily life, however they are very much Ukrainian (and anti-Putin.)

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(Also I wonder to what extent religion plays a role in the conflict. The Ukrainian orthodox church broke away from the Russian orthodox church in 2018, which made a lot of Russians angry. I hope Putin is not listening to some crazy religious Russian orthodox leader who might be thinking it’s a sign of the Apocalypse or something. The Russian orthodox church still claims ecclesiastical juridiction over Ukraine, and I wonder if some of them are seeing the war in Ukraine as some kind of crusade)

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Al-x

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

The odd thing with Ukraine ethnically is a lot of people speak Russian as their first language, about 50 % of the country, but not all of them identify as Russian. But 20 %, or about 10 million people, speak and identify as Russian, and many of them support Putin. But I think in Kiev most people speak Russian in their daily life, however they are very much Ukrainian (and anti-Putin.)

It’s not that odd. A lot of Irish primarily spoke English and shared culture with the English, but it didn’t mean they wanted to be governed by the English.

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Tobias Radesäter, Todd, DavidM, Arjan Dirkse, Al-x

So, anyone know if there’s a penalty for applying for and holding a US green card on bullshit pretences?  Asking for a Chancellor of the Exchequer.

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DavidM, Todd

Ben wrote:

So, anyone know if there’s a penalty for applying for and holding a US green card on bullshit pretences?  Asking for a Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Yes… here’s the source material.

 

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Todd

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

I still think despite Putin being the worst most bloodthirsty player in the conflict right now, the Western countries and also the Ukrainian leadership also carry some of the blame. Russia has valid territorial claims in Crimea and Ukraine has to meet them half way. The Donbas is another matter, that region is not as pro-Russian as Crimea.

The Western countries, sure. Putin made it very clear many years ago that he wouldn’t allow Western expansion to continue into what he considers the Russian sphere of influence, and if the West had heeded that advice, things might look very differently today.

I don’t know about those valid claims though, especially when it comes to Ukraine’s perspective. Russia has been trying to Russify Ukraine and wipe out the Ukrainian language and culture – basically, the Ukrainian people – for literally centuries now. That there are many people who consider themselves Russian in Crimea is a result of this, including the deportation of most of the remaining native population of Crimean tatars after World War II (which made up about 20% of the population back then). So, you know, the Russian claims are a result of a successful ethnic cleansing of the population. You can see how maybe many Ukrainians aren’t really cool with that.

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DavidM, Todd

The other problem for saying there shouldn’t have been eastward expansion is much of it was driven by Russia / USSR’s history of being a total bastard to its neighbours.

Just about every Eastern European NATO member will be pointing at Ukraine: That is why we wanted to fucking join!

The other weird thing about all of this, given Putin’s macho viewpoint, is that historically Russia has repulsed multiple invasions.  The idea that a massive secret multinational new invasion would succeed where those failed is total bollocks.

Then again Putin is going for the leadership of the wounded white male movement.  Including the attitude of “fuck you snowflakes, I’m really fucking sensitive”.

A smarter way of making the point about NATO expansion would be to set up an alliance with central and south American states.  Chances are they’d join due to the US screwing with them so much.  The US would get all huffy, just like Russia.

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Todd

Christian wrote:

Putin made it very clear many years ago that he wouldn’t allow Western expansion to continue into what he considers the Russian sphere of influence, and if the West had heeded that advice, things might look very differently today.

Heeded it in what respect?

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At the same time, America was involved with manipulating Ukrainian politics and working with far right Ukrainian nationalists despite their involvement in war crimes in previous recent conflicts. Westernizing Ukraine is not necessarily the approach the US and Europe should take. Though, I think a lot of that was led by fairly independent CIA and military interests not exactly in line with the administration, but Biden has been too involved in Ukraine at least since he was VP if not during his time as Senator.

The deaths in Bucha haven’t been fully investigated, but there are pundits on CNN and MSNBC already saying that we need to send US and NATO troops into Ukraine to face the Russian army directly. Irrespective of the facts, it is already being used in the media to start the march into WW3. This was my main fear with Biden before the election – that he would get us involved in some war in Ukraine.

It seems like this is the time for more people to start talking about what it will take to achieve peace as the narrative is only escalating at this point. Even if our leaders are happy to go back to the Cold War, all that will accomplish is to get us into similar alliances of convenience with dictators and authoritarians around the world who will happily provide material and strategic support to the superpowers as long as we stay out of their internal politics, abuses of power and human rights.

The deaths in Bucha haven’t been fully investigated, but there are pundits on CNN and MSNBC already saying that we need to send US and NATO troops into Ukraine to face the Russian army directly. Irrespective of the facts, it is already being used in the media to start the march into WW3.

To be honest, I think there’s a lot of people in the media (on the left and right) who are loving the war and would like to see it escalate more but not to a nuclear level because they think it would be great for ratings. They would milk it for all it’s worth and beyond.

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The Day Today’s “War!” riff should have expired by now but remains as accurate as ever.

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Arjan Dirkse, Dave, lorcan_nagle

[Arjan Dirkse]

Russia and the West have two fundamentally different conceptions of how geopolitical influence works. The West doesn’t really believe in spheres of influence and thinks everybody should be free to partner up with the strongest, richest party (which is, of course, the West). China kind of thinks this too, it just wants China to be the strongest and richest. Whereas Russia being less powerful economically believes in the spheres of influence, of historical and cultural ties. So they think Ukraine should have no choice but to remain tied to Russia.

 

 

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Arjan Dirkse.

Oh, the US definitely goes with the sphere of influence idea – they just apply it globally, assume everything US works anywhere and see the rest of the American continent as their playground.

Both countries, much like Johnson, love the allure of empire, but without the pesky costs and responsibilities.  Both have a foreign policy of “go somewhere, bomb someone, look hard”.

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lorcan_nagle

Ben wrote:

Oh, the US definitely goes with the sphere of influence idea – they just apply it globally, assume everything US works anywhere and see the rest of the American continent as their playground. Both countries, much like Johnson, love the allure of empire, but without the pesky costs and responsibilities.  Both have a foreign policy of “go somewhere, bomb someone, look hard”.

Yeah you’re probably right. The being free to choose your allies is probably a pretense. I mean it’s fine if a nations freely chooses to partner up with the US and the EU, but if they don’t want to, there are other means to persuade them.

 

However they may believe in their own sphere of influence, but they don’t respect the sphere of influence of others.

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

However they may believe in their own sphere of influence, but they don’t respect the sphere of influence of others.

Wow, it’s almost as if Imperialism is based on constant expansion or something.

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Christian, Todd

China is playing its own game with regard to spheres of influence, and they’re succeeding: What China is really up to in Africa

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Todd

Dave wrote:

Christian wrote:

Putin made it very clear many years ago that he wouldn’t allow Western expansion to continue into what he considers the Russian sphere of influence, and if the West had heeded that advice, things might look very differently today.

Heeded it in what respect?

Not expanding the NATO closer and closer to Russia might have helped.

It should be remembered that Russia signed an agreement of non aggression with Ukraine in return for them surrendering their nuclear weapons, alongside Western nuclear powers but only one party has pissed over the whole thing. Breaking that really damages the non-proliferation argument, history says now Ukraine should have kept them.

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Christian, DavidM, lorcan_nagle, Ben

So when the Baltic states asked to be admitted NATO should have said no?

Given the last 20 years it’s possible they would have been invaded too.  We know all too well that if one country wants to invade another, a premise can be cooked up.

If anything, the bigger aspect here is the challenge to the idea that interconnectedness prevents war by rendering it too costly.  It has proven very costly for Russia but Putin isn’t caring about it.

With Orban re-elected in Hungary, and depending how the French presidency election goes, its a major hit to the EU.  Looks like it will be responding to what happened in Hungary.  How successful it will be is harder to tell.  Despite many politicians liking to depict the EU as a titanic tyrant, power in it is weighted towards member nation state leaders.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

However they may believe in their own sphere of influence, but they don’t respect the sphere of influence of others.

Wow, it’s almost as if Imperialism is based on constant expansion or something.

The US’s biggest asset is the one it has the least amount of control over but exploits whenever possible: its culture.

Music, movies, television, sports, pop culture. For better or worse, it invades and pervades the entire world. The government can’t control it but will weaponize it when advantageous to its interests. No matter where you go in this world, you will find American influences.

American culture is like a cancer that rapidly spreads and is always mutating. And there is no cure for it.

The US has conquered the world, but most don’t even realize it.

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DavidM, Sean Robinson, Ben

Christian wrote:

Dave wrote:

Christian wrote:

Putin made it very clear many years ago that he wouldn’t allow Western expansion to continue into what he considers the Russian sphere of influence, and if the West had heeded that advice, things might look very differently today.

Heeded it in what respect?

Not expanding the NATO closer and closer to Russia might have helped.

Not sure the current situation is really an argument against that.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Ben

[Al-x]

😂😂😂

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jerry-springer-says-donald-trump-160922581.html

—————————————

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/republicans-found-election-fraud-own-182051045.html

https://news.yahoo.com/1-good-reason-trump-want-100004579.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Al-x.

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

Russia has valid territorial claims in Crimea

where do you get your information? Have you checked for bias?

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/why-did-russia-give-away-crimea-sixty-years-ago  says the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet gave it back to Ukraine in 1954. The writer goes on to talk about weak justifications but the transfer was made and papers signed. I don’t really want to debate this. I stopped reading once he stopped talking about facts and went into rationalizations and motivations.

Russia has been trying to influence American policy through Fox for years, you don’t think they would be trying to do the same in other parts of the world. THE US and Russia are not the same, imo. It is not a chessboard with Russia and US playing neutral colors trying to best the other. Do you have evidence that The US tried to manipulate Putin’s ascension to power like Russia did in Trump’s election victory?

Todd wrote:

The US’s biggest asset is the one it has the least amount of control over but exploits whenever possible: its culture.

Todd wrote:

The US has conquered the world, but most don’t even realize it.

Are you talking about the US government? because I see the American Culture often at odds with its government. so if US has conquered the world do we have a single conqueror or leader promoting US policy like Putin promotes Russian policy. Should we be ashamed of ourselves for helping the Ukrainian people because we are interfering with a conflict between 2 separate parties?

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Wow, it’s almost as if Imperialism is based on constant expansion or something.

So do you think Putin would stop if he conquers Ukraine? Putin is as Imperialist as anyone on the planet. What excuse will he use to attack Belarus or Poland? Who is on the Western border of Poland? It may not be a declared war but I project he would fuck with Germany as much as possible.

The only dog that the US has in this fight is an attempt to keep Russia weak and protecting US/NATO interests. This current(land) war will not affect US territory except for some military bases.

MY rant is over and most of this is my own supposition except for the written paper that transferred Crimea to Ukraine in 1954.

Rocket wrote:

So do you think Putin would stop if he conquers Ukraine? Putin is as Imperialist as anyone on the planet. What excuse will he use to attack Belarus or Poland? Who is on the Western border of Poland? It may not be a declared war but I project he would fuck with Germany as much as possible.

I think that he’ll expand as far as he figures he can get away with without triggering a war he knows he can’t win. Of course, he figured the invasion of Ukraine was one he could win and quickly, but he didn’t seem to think that keeping the same people who skimmed money off the top in the Soviet military around and in positions of power would lead them to do the same with the modern Russian military.

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Todd, Rocket

California cities spent huge share of federal Covid relief funds on police | US policing | The Guardian

This is sometimes a pretty obvious result to federal funding. Essentially, a lot of cities just have no idea how to use the funds and no other infrastructure besides the police where they can use the money.

Christian wrote:

Dave wrote:

Christian wrote:

Putin made it very clear many years ago that he wouldn’t allow Western expansion to continue into what he considers the Russian sphere of influence, and if the West had heeded that advice, things might look very differently today.

Heeded it in what respect?

Not expanding the NATO closer and closer to Russia might have helped.

The NATO treaty is basically “We will all help you if Russia invades, but not if you start a war yourself”.

Which shouldn’t be a problem for anyone in Russia. Unless, you know, they were already planning on invading someone.

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Dave

DavidM wrote:

The NATO treaty is basically “We will all help you if Russia invades, but not if you start a war yourself”.

Which shouldn’t be a problem for anyone in Russia. Unless, you know, they were already planning on invading someone.

This presupposes more trust in the US’ commitment to peace than Putin probably had.

In that, I do not think his position is unreasonable per se. The US has been guilty of making up pretenses in order to commit wars of aggression against sovereign states in the recent past – wars that are still not concluded, one might add.

Dave wrote:

Not sure the current situation is really an argument against that.

I do not think any of us will be able to discern whether we would have arrived at the current situation anyway, or whether NATO expansion has contributed to it to an extent that it could’ve been avoided. But it is a fact that Putin told the Western powers in 2007 that he would take further NATO expansion as a provocation and threat and that he wouldn’t stand for it.

Yes, I do think it was a mistake to allow new NATO member states near Russia after this. But who the fuck knows whether Putin would’ve been satisfied with more diplomatic (as opposed to military) power over the former Soviet states? Maybe we would be exactly where we are now anyway.

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Rocket wrote:

Are you talking about the US government? because I see the American Culture often at odds with its government. so if US has conquered the world do we have a single conqueror or leader promoting US policy like Putin promotes Russian policy. Should we be ashamed of ourselves for helping the Ukrainian people because we are interfering with a conflict between 2 separate parties?

No, I’m not talking about the government. I’m talking about American culture in general. It has a global influence that has infiltrated just about every country on earth. While the US governemnt hasn’t conquered the world, its culture has.

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If the USA becomes influential with all nations, their tourism output exceeding the culture input produced by another country, they’ll win.

At least that’s how it works in Civilization V.

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Christian, Chris D, garjones, DavidM, Todd, lorcan_nagle

Christian wrote:

DavidM wrote:

The NATO treaty is basically “We will all help you if Russia invades, but not if you start a war yourself”.

Which shouldn’t be a problem for anyone in Russia. Unless, you know, they were already planning on invading someone.

This presupposes more trust in the US’ commitment to peace than Putin probably had.

In that, I do not think his position is unreasonable per se. The US has been guilty of making up pretenses in order to commit wars of aggression against sovereign states in the recent past – wars that are still not concluded, one might add.

Dave wrote:

Not sure the current situation is really an argument against that.

I do not think any of us will be able to discern whether we would have arrived at the current situation anyway, or whether NATO expansion has contributed to it to an extent that it could’ve been avoided. But it is a fact that Putin told the Western powers in 2007 that he would take further NATO expansion as a provocation and threat and that he wouldn’t stand for it.

Yes, I do think it was a mistake to allow new NATO member states near Russia after this. But who the fuck knows whether Putin would’ve been satisfied with more diplomatic (as opposed to military) power over the former Soviet states? Maybe we would be exactly where we are now anyway.

The way I see it, Russian Imperialism doesn’t counter NATO Imperialism, or vice-versa. Ukraine and the people who live there have been reduced to a bargaining chip between these two powers and as always it’s the little people who are suffering.

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Christian, Todd

Surprising no-one:

Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak to be fined over lockdown parties

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lorcan_nagle, Todd

Rishi Sunak is looking into whether the fines can be a tax write-off.

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Ben, lorcan_nagle, Dave

Now the GOP can’t say much about Hunter Biden’s international business dealings given Jared Kushner’s $2B payday from the Saudi’s

Pot calling kettle
Living in a glass house

https://www.yahoo.com/news/critics-mock-gops-hunter-biden-030100332.html

None of which will stop them.

“Whatever happened to shame?”

“I think it went the way of honour.”

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Todd, Chris D, lorcan_nagle

Ben wrote:

None of which will stop them.

“Whatever happened to shame?”

“I think it went the way of honour.”

“What was that sound?”

“It was just dignity flying out the window. Don’t worry about it.”

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Todd, Chris D, lorcan_nagle

Speaking of shame, the German Family Minister (yeah, that’s a thing) has stepped down because she’s been been vacationing during the floodings last year, when she was minister of the environment of the county of Rheinland-Pfalz, which was badly flooded. (And she and caught lying about it – she claimed that she took part in the cabinet meetings remotely, which she hadn’t). She’s a member of the Green Party, and part of the whole thing is that the Greens here in Northrhine-Westfalia had been demanding a few weeks earlier that the NRW minister of the environment (who’s a CDU member) step down because, well, she was vacationing during the floodings and lied about it.

What goes around and all that, I suppose.

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lorcan_nagle, Todd

She have just claimed she can’t resign due to a war being on.

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Dave, Christian

Christian wrote:

(And she and caught lying about it – she claimed that she took part in the cabinet meetings remotely, which she hadn’t).

It’s the cover up that’s often worse than the crime, issue an apology and often politicians can ride things out. Boris Johnson aside usually when you are caught lying it’s curtains.

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lorcan_nagle, Christian

garjones wrote:

Boris Johnson aside usually when you are caught lying it’s curtains.

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lorcan_nagle, njerry, Todd

Brilliant pic.twitter.com/PW8gpTSt6h

— Paul Massaro (@apmassaro3) April 14, 2022

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Todd

I think the hate from politics towards transgender people in the US is getting really bad. There seems to be a crazy conflation happening between people who are parents of transgender children or who treat transgender children with pedophilic “groomers”. This is disgusting and it needs to stop.

 

Mississippi Republican Says Trans Rights Supporters Should Face a Firing Squad (vice.com)

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Martin Smith, Todd, lorcan_nagle, Ben

It is.  The same organisations have successfully imported much of it into the UK, with people like Rowling backing them.

It is also certain Johnson will bank on a culture war, anti trans platform for the coming two years and the 2024 election.  It has already started.

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lorcan_nagle

It’s the same shit they used to say about gay people, just reheated. What’s really sad is that there are some gay people willing to pull the ladder up behind them in the hope that they can remain respectable enough to appease the reactionaries pushing this shit.

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Christian, Ben, garjones, Todd

lorcan_nagle wrote:

The way I see it, Russian Imperialism doesn’t counter NATO Imperialism, or vice-versa. Ukraine and the people who live there have been reduced to a bargaining chip between these two powers and as always it’s the little people who are suffering.

War is a racket, and the people making policy and the apparent mindreaders telling us with confidence what Putin wants and will do and that we need to get US and NATO troops into Ukraine are also working for the guys running the racket.

How Goldman Sachs profits from war in Ukraine, loophole in sanctions (nbcnews.com)

Goldman Sachs, the giant New York investment bank, is cashing in on the war in Ukraine by selling Russian debt to U.S. hedge funds — and using a legal loophole in the Biden administration’s sanctions to do it.

How Hedge Funds Control America – YouTube

Hedge Funds’ Commodity Bets Soar After Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine – WSJ

Hedge funds that placed bullish bets on commodities are notching sizable returns from the biggest rally in decades following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Hedge funds search for bargains in Russian and Ukrainian bonds | Financial Times (ft.com)

Countries’ sovereign and corporate debt have dropped sharply since invasion last month

Hedge funds have been scooping up beaten-down Russian and Ukrainian bonds after the conflict between the two countries sent many traditional investors racing out of the markets.

Distressed debt specialists Aurelius, GoldenTree and Silver Point are among those that have been buying Russian corporate bonds, according to several people familiar with the matter.

American-made Javelin and Stinger missiles are heading to Ukraine. At least 19 members of Congress personally invest in the defense contractors behind them. | Business Insider India

Raytheon Technologies: This Defense Stock Is a Great Hedge to Fight Rushing Inflation | Nasdaq

Raytheon Technologies (NYSE:RTX) soared 20% year-to-date and the bullish trend is set to prevail following increasing geopolitical tensions. Russia’s invasion on Ukraine has prompted a renewed emphasis on security in NATO countries and military spending is estimated to balloon in the next years, benefiting RTX stock.

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Christian, Todd

Ben wrote:

It is also certain Johnson will bank on a culture war, anti trans platform for the coming two years and the 2024 election.  It has already started.

That is fucking sad.

 

I know trans people have trouble everywhere but now in the US a politician (not an influential one I think, but still) is openly calling for them to be killed. That is really escalating the hate campaign. I don’t really understand the psychology behind the transgender identity but if I knew or encountered any (I have only ever met one transgender person in my entire life) I would treat them decently, like I try to treat any other person.

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lorcan_nagle

One thing you can do and it’s very easy is understand why pronouns matter.  For probably the majority of people you meet, it won’t matter much, but to some it’ll mean a great deal.  It costs you nothing.

Just recently the UK government tried to go back on a promise to ban conversion therapy.  After a kicking they u-turned, but only on gay conversion therapy.  Trans? Still permitted.  Nobody was fooled or happy about it.

This is the same government sending asylum seekers to Rwanda and sees no problem with a criminal PM.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

I think transsexualism is only such a hot button issue because of conservatives using it as a scare tactic. “The disappearance of gender borders threatens the fundamentals of Western civilization,” etc. It’s bullshit.

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Rocket, Christian, Todd, Ben

Boris Johnson says he didn’t know party was illegal after being fined for breaking Covid lockdown

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has apologized for breaking his own Covid-19 restrictions, but claimed he didn’t know the 2020 birthday gathering thrown in his honor was an illegal party, in his first comments to lawmakers since he was fined by police last week.

So ignorance of the law is an excuse?

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Ben, lorcan_nagle

Todd wrote:

Boris Johnson says he didn’t know party was illegal after being fined for breaking Covid lockdown

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has apologized for breaking his own Covid-19 restrictions, but claimed he didn’t know the 2020 birthday gathering thrown in his honor was an illegal party, in his first comments to lawmakers since he was fined by police last week.

So ignorance of the law is an excuse?

If you’re sufficiently upper-class, yes

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Todd, Ben

[Al-x]

As much as I respected Kasparov for his chess game and career… How different is what he said different from what Lindsay Graham implied about someone taking out Putin and Biden saying Putin can no longer be leader?

Thing is, Putin knows that in a fair Russian election, the winner would be Navalny.  Now a certain US someone whose name I won’t mention now, admires Putin and tried (and apparently still trying) to seize power and stay up there like him.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/garry-kasparov-predicts-putins-inner-081503652.html

——————————–

If Biden can pull this debt  cancellation off, think of all the young votes he and other Dems might get:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/biden-administration-launches-student-loan-review-says-40-000-borrowers-will-see-debt-canceled-11650391220?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

• This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by Al-x.

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Todd

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

I think transsexualism is only such a hot button issue because of conservatives using it as a scare tactic. “The disappearance of gender borders threatens the fundamentals of Western civilization,” etc. It’s bullshit.

Of course it is. It’s all culture wars rhetoric.

In truth trans matters affect the vast majority of people not a jot. It’s a very small minority of people that largely want to be left alone. As Lorcan says correctly a lot of these arguments were made against gay people 30 years ago and we found they were baseless.

I saw today some ‘uproar’ headline about using certain terms for people who were pregnant and identified as male. Who cares? You have 50% of the population born male that cannot bear children, then you have a tiny proportion of women that become trans men, then an even smaller proportion again that can have children after various treatments, then a smaller one again that want to, and a smaller one again that do. It’s never going to affect my life, or yours and it may mean once every 15 years a midwife is asked to adjust some terminology to make someone more comfortable.

While we have multiple wars going on, still thousands a day dying of a pandemic or violent crime why is this really on a mainstream radar as an ‘issue’? Just move on, it is nothing to do with you and doesn’t affect you.

(Using the generic ‘you’ there, just to be clear).

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njerry, Ben, lorcan_nagle, Todd

lorcan_nagle wrote:

It’s the same shit they used to say about gay people, just reheated. What’s really sad is that there are some gay people willing to pull the ladder up behind them in the hope that they can remain respectable enough to appease the reactionaries pushing this shit.

And there’s probably also some actual conviction there, as far as lesbian TERFs are concerned? And there seems to be a fight going on because some lesbians specifically feel threatened by the presence of trans people?

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lorcan_nagle

Christian wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

It’s the same shit they used to say about gay people, just reheated. What’s really sad is that there are some gay people willing to pull the ladder up behind them in the hope that they can remain respectable enough to appease the reactionaries pushing this shit.

And there’s probably also some actual conviction there, as far as lesbian TERFs are concerned? And there seems to be a fight going on because some lesbians specifically feel threatened by the presence of trans people?

While it’s likely there are some genuine concerns in there, a lot of this is just bad faith arguments. A big chunk of modern TERF ideology comes from Political Lesbianism, a movement where women actively chose to refuse sex or relationships with men, and claimed to be lesbians. It’s largely been rejected by Third Wave and later feminism (because of, you know, the misandry), but a couple of the really prominent TERFs in the UK are linked to the original movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_lesbianism

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Christian, Todd

garjones wrote:

it is nothing to do with you and doesn’t affect you

This is pretty much my stance. If someone wants to change gender it’s their choice and possibly their doctor’s if they want gender affirming surgery.

 

I’ve never had to change my gender pronouns usage in the 47 years I’ve lived on this Earth. Maybe if I ever get to know some non-binary transgender person I will have to amend the third person pronoun I use to address them. Really, who fucking cares? If they really want me to use another word, I’ll do it.

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Al-x, garjones, lorcan_nagle

lorcan_nagle wrote:

While it’s likely there are some genuine concerns in there, a lot of this is just bad faith arguments. A big chunk of modern TERF ideology comes from Political Lesbianism, a movement where women actively chose to refuse sex or relationships with men, and claimed to be lesbians. It’s largely been rejected by Third Wave and later feminism (because of, you know, the misandry), but a couple of the really prominent TERFs in the UK are linked to the original movement.

In some ways, I think Trans activists should actively divorce their movement from gay rights and feminism as well.

In the origin of gay rights, trans activists were actually strong leaders – mostly from the “drag” era – and the most politically active leaders I knew in the gay rights movement during the height of the AIDS epidemic were drag queens in the theatre community. Now, like you point out, homosexuality is fairly mainstream but it is like those commercials we see today where all the actors are African American or Asian, but nothing to reflect the experience of any particular culture. It’s technically colorblind casting, but at the same time, it simply depicts the same bland consumer culture.

Well, trans is not bland. It is never going to comfortably fit into mainstream culture and it will always present problems and challenges to gender expectations and roles. Like Gar points out, it is a small minority. 99% of kids in sports today will never compete against a trans athlete. However, I bet they will compete against an athlete using some sort of hormone enhancement or PED – even in teenage events – and that is a much greater problem than worrying about trans women dominating sports. Meanwhile, as many people decrying the participation of trans athletes in sports are okay with allowing steroids since it is impossible to stop.

Trans people serious about living their lives the way they want to probably aren’t served trying to align with gay rights activism or feminism or any other civil rights movement. To be honest, I’ve seen a lot of personality clashes inside those movements already. That trans woman I mentioned had some particularly conservative views on what it meant to be a woman. Views that a lot of feminists or people who think that gender is “fluid” would have problems with. However, that particular and individual point of view struck me as authentic. I imagine that it will take more and more of these individuals expressing every unique point of view to convince people to stop worrying about it.

 

Anonymous wrote:

In some ways, I think Trans activists should actively divorce their movement from gay rights and feminism as well.

This is not only incorrect, it’s actively dangerous for trans and gay people. Trans people have been part of the gay rights movement since the beginning – a trans woman threw the first brick at Stonewall. Trying to separate them is the rhetoric of the oppressor who’s trying to get rid of all of us, and is starting with the most vulnerable part of the community. And people like me are literally next on their list – groups like the so-called LGB Alliance are openly biphobic as well as transphobic despite claiming to support us. Not to mention that more cis people who aren’t gender conforming get harassed and assaulted than trans ones by virtue of there being more of them, and transphobes are not exactly open to debate when they decide that butch woman shouldn’t use the right toilet.

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Todd