Politics: Biden, Brexit and Beyond

Topic

Talk about anything political here.

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garjones wrote:

Edit: as if by magic this appeared in my news feed 2 minutes after writing this post:

Parler is back online now by routing 100% of its user traffic through servers located within the Russian Federation.

That is hilarious on so many levels.

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garjones

Anonymous wrote:

The US attempted to be an imperial or colonial power when that was the thing to do – especially in South America, like you point out, but it was not very good at it or really that dedicated to it

Ehhh… I’m not sure anyone south of the border would agree with that… They’re at the very least VERY dedicated… xD

Anonymous wrote:

No matter how unlikely it seems, once nations start ramping up military production, military action gets riskier and riskier. Once Germany decides it will play a larger part in the arming of NATO, France will think “do we really trust the Germans?” Then they’ll start arming up and then the UK will think “do we really trust the French and the Germans?”

I mean, yeah it isn’t necessarily easy, but I think Europe has been moving past some of that… That’s kind of the point of the EU at least. There’s a way to make it work… plenty of examples in modern sci-fi at least… but there’s no will to relinquish power and sovereignty just yet… maybe one day. We ain’t gonna have global peace any time soon.

Anyways, on the social media topic… like it or not, you DO sign a legal form of agreement when you create an account, soooo… there’s not much else to discuss… yes it sucks you can get banned or censored or whatever, but that’s how it is. No one’s forcing you to use X or Y private service.

Also, kinda funny that they’re whining about getting unfairly banned when they all dream of being able to kick the mexicans, the blacks and the gays out of their establishments… don’t they demand a right to serve discriminately?? what are they bitching about then? These social media corporations are doing just that.

 

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Anonymous wrote:

However, I think the nation in general does believe that free and fair access to these platforms should be answerable to constitutional concerns for free expression. More important than that, though, I don’t think many – if any people – really believe that the unelected billionaires who own these applications should get to unilaterally decide what people are allowed to communicate when they post. That gives a small, very self-interested group an amount of authoritarian control that seems entirely opposed to the inclinations of anyone who is concerned about the freedom of the internet or about democracy itself.

Even simple things like how copyright is enforced can lead to feelings of being bullied. There’s a Rabbi who has a YT channel were he engages in Anti-Christian polemics. He posted a video containing how a certain Pastor came just before COVID to Israel to missionize to Jews, and as Israel feels that a parent’s right to chose how their child is raised overrides the right  freedom of speech and religion, and thus illegalizes preaching to minors, he posted a segment of that Pastor saying things that concerned him that he was planning to specifically violate those laws. Now, no matter your stance on religion- Jew, Christian, Atheist- or on Israel, or on that Israeli law divorced from Israel as a whole, he had the right to do that, given that such analysis of a person’s position falls under the strictest definition of Fair Use. But the Pastor’s Church filed a Copyright Complaint to Youtube, and the video was removed for a while. Fine- we all know that YT randomly applies Fair Use, if at all. But the fact that a Church would try to censor a Jew for talking about  Christianity is scary, given that in Medieval Europe such censorship was the normal condition, and trying to buck the law meant pogroms. Is it a rational fear? No. But this historical fact is so deeply ingrained that it has lead to irrational positions like people claiming that a translation of the Talmud didn’t reinsert sections that were censored in Europe for “resemblance to Jesus” was because since some Anti-Semites still use the passages as propaganda, if we translated them, it would lead to mass violence against Jews that would be so intense, the government would not be able to stop more than 60% of them. That’s Anti-Semites passively using the techniques of history- how would people with such concerns react to a Church actively censoring such discussions, even if we don’t have proof that, and it’s doubtful that they even know the history?

Anonymous wrote:

we all know that YT randomly applies Fair Use, if at all.

It’s not random, not in that sense anyway. Youtube’s approach (aside from some music filters that are automated) is completely reactive and based on complaint. That’s why some videos are full of copyrighted material and others are quickly pulled down.

I have a friend that has a rugby analysis page and he’s using clips of games to show his point, he doesn’t have copyright to those games. Most of his material is left to stand but one competition from New Zealand instantly objects and has them removed (so he just doesn’t cover those games any more because if your copyright strikes build up you get suspended).

If you search for BBC news or comedy panel shows there are loads of full episodes posted and stay there for years, however for drama (which has resale value via box sets) everything is taken down immediately because they call it out with Youtube, it’s not YT making a value judgement.

So because the pastor made a complaint it comes down. To me it’s not hugely a free speech issue, he could have reposted that video and presented the same words as text or with someone else quoting them. Maybe it lessens the effect a bit but it it doesn’t prevent him presenting the same message.

Trump administration to deport man to Haiti who has never been there

And ICE had the audacity to post this:

Today we honor Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s message of hope, justice and equality. pic.twitter.com/C7HOywZWbd

— ICE (@ICEgov) January 18, 2021

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Todd

garjones wrote:

It’s not random, not in that sense anyway. Youtube’s approach (aside from some music filters that are automated) is completely reactive and based on complaint. That’s why some videos are full of copyrighted material and others are quickly pulled down.

You’re focusing on one line of my post and missing the point: This approach led to something that has bad historical baggage, which I think should be enough to get respect of Fair Use, at least for Religious and Political material. The Rabbi in question actually got YT to allow it back up and remove his strike, I don’t know how, though.

Anonymous wrote:

You’re focusing on one line of my post and missing the point: This approach led to something that has bad historical baggage, which I think should be enough to get respect of Fair Use, at least for Religious and Political material. The Rabbi in question actually got YT to allow it back up and remove his strike, I don’t know how, though.

But what is your point? You’re talking about something more akin to youtube drama than an international incident. By your own admission YT is a mess and everyone can exploit the system AND the dude sorted it out with YT. Sooooooooooo…?

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garjones

Anonymous wrote:

This approach led to something that has bad historical baggage, which I think should be enough to get respect of Fair Use, at least for Religious and Political material.

Religious of political material doesn’t get special treatment in copyright law.

My point is that this isn’t really a censorship issue, Youtube aren’t objecting to the actual content of the argument. What they are doing is dealing with the opaque nature of ‘fair use’ when it comes to video, a law that was primarily written for use of photos and extracts in print criticism.

Fair use in video has no definition, there’s no indication in law of a set length or proportion of the original work, so rather than get tangled in legalities they set their T&Cs like this:

Creators should only upload videos that they have made or that they’re authorized to use. That means they should not upload videos they didn’t make, or use content in their videos that someone else owns the copyright to, such as music tracks, snippets of copyrighted programs, or videos made by other users, without necessary authorizations.

Those were the terms he would have agreed to before publishing material on the site.

He can always post on Vimeo who don’t seem to give a shit about copyright.

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Jon wrote:

By your own admission YT is a mess and everyone can exploit the system AND the dude sorted it out with YT.

Once the mess reaches a point where it is acceptable to exploit it in a way that has historical baggage that causes people to be irrationally afraid because of how much the historical baggage has been ingrained, it’s crossed a new line. This crosses a new line that just shows how dangerous such a system can be.

garjones wrote:

My point is that this isn’t really a censorship issue,

Agreed, my point is just that since this is an aberration, as he’s used video from Churches before, and all of them take it in stride, since they sometimes respond to his videos using them, which this Pastor actually has done, the fact that the system is set up in such a manner that someone could be hypocritical in a way that conjures up historical baggage from a dangerous time is really out there and offensive. It’s not a censorship issue, I was adding it in addition to censorship issues- not only censorship issues are out there, but so is a system that could activate paranoia and fear.

Anonymous wrote:

Once the mess reaches a point where it is acceptable to exploit it in a way that has historical baggage that causes people to be irrationally afraid because of how much the historical baggage has been ingrained, it’s crossed a new line. This crosses a new line that just shows how dangerous such a system can be.

No it’s really not, and no offense but you’re over-exagerating that particular issue… Again, by clicking on that “I agree” button, you’re agreeing to the terms and conditions (which happen to be a legally binding contract), whatever they may be… if that includes a horribly broken system where anyone can claim a video “just because”, then that’s how it is and that’s that. No one is forcing anyone to upload videos or to watch videos on YT, it’s a choice everyone makes.

Also, everything has “historical baggage” when you dig deep enough, and honestly your argument is very flimsy at best… and I’ll just leave it at that because let’s say that I might have some “hot takes” on the issue… best not to get into trouble (oh, and please, do note the irony in me having to censor myself when discussing “this” topic for fear of being ostracized for my opinions).

Anonymous wrote:

JRCarter wrote:

If Cancel Culture is really going to have Donald J. Trump removed from the John Hughes movie “Home Alone,” then in support of MY PRESIDENT, I’d like to have myself officially removed from the John Hughes’ films, “Pretty In Pink” and “Ferris Buhler’s Day Off.”😂

— Kristy Swanson (@KristySwansonXO) January 15, 2021

Someone should deepfake in Michelle Obama over Kristy Swansons appearances in said movies.

I didn’t even know she was in any movies other than Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and even that got cancelled when the tv series came out.

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Will_C, Todd

It must be such a pain for Trump that all the actors supporting him are last row or has-beens.

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Will_C, Todd, Chris D

Conservatives complaining about cancel culture is so absurd considering how much they claim to worship at the free market alter of capitalism. Capitalism is cancel culture practically by definition. A business offers a product or service to consumers and if not enough consumers consume said product or service the business will literally cancel it. Cancel culture is just consumers extending the beloved free market principles to sets of ideas and people who support this ideas. This current brand of Conservatives, at this point, are the dumbest bunch of hypocrites around.

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Will_C, Todd, Ben, lorcan_nagle

It’s different when they did it to the Chicks formerly known as Dixie.

Or to French Fries.

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Will_C, Todd, Chris D

Problem is most conservatives are no longer so. It’s become about smashing the status quo.  And if there’s no status quo to smash? Go find one.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle, Chris D

garjones wrote:

My point is that this isn’t really a censorship issue, Youtube aren’t objecting to the actual content of the argument. What they are doing is dealing with the opaque nature of ‘fair use’ when it comes to video, a law that was primarily written for use of photos and extracts in print criticism.

Yeah, the problems with intellectual property (including things like patents on DNA sequences) are separate from problems with access to communications media. Back when television first emerged, people could readily see that these forms of communication were much too powerful to be left in entirely private control so we go things like the FCC and the BBC. Now that even the “press” has primarily gone online along with most television news, it’s getting increasingly hard to argue that the regulation environment should not be reformulated to ensure the public interest is represented in the communications as well.

Biden picks transgender woman as assistant health secretary

WASHINGTON — President-elect Joe Biden has tapped Pennsylvania Health Secretary Rachel Levine to be his assistant secretary of health, leaving her poised to become the first openly transgender federal official to be confirmed by the U.S. Senate.

A pediatrician and former Pennsylvania physician general, Levine was appointed to her current post by Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf in 2017, making her one of the few transgender people serving in elected or appointed positions nationwide. She won past confirmation by the Republican-majority Pennsylvania Senate and has emerged as the public face of the state’s response to the coronavirus pandemic.

“Dr. Rachel Levine will bring the steady leadership and essential expertise we need to get people through this pandemic — no matter their zip code, race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability — and meet the public health needs of our country in this critical moment and beyond,” Biden said in a statement. “She is a historic and deeply qualified choice to help lead our administration’s health efforts.”

A graduate of Harvard and of Tulane Medical School, Levine is president of the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials. She’s written in the past on the opioid crisis, medical marijuana, adolescent medicine, eating disorders and LGBTQ medicine.

Biden and his transition team have already begun negotiating with members of Congress, promoting speedy passage of the president-elect’s $1.9 trillion plan to bring the coronavirus, which has killed nearly 400,000 people in the United States, under control. It seeks to enlist federal emergency personnel to run mass vaccination centers and provide 100 immunization shots in his administration’s first 100 days while using government spending to stimulate the pandemic-hammered economy,

Biden also says that, in one of his first acts as president, he’ll ask Americans to wear masks for 100 days to slow the virus’ spread.

Levine joins Biden’s Health and Human Services secretary nominee Xavier Becerra, a Latino politician who rose from humble beginnings to serve in Congress and as California’s attorney general.

Businessman Jeff Zients is Biden’s coronavirus response coordinator, while Biden picked infectious-disease specialist Rochelle Walensky to run the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Vivek Murthy as surgeon general and Yale epidemiologist Marcella Nunez-Smith to head a working group to ensure fair and equitable distribution of vaccines and treatments.

The government’s top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, will also work closely with the Biden administration.

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Todd

Anonymous wrote:

Now that even the “press” has primarily gone online along with most television news, it’s getting increasingly hard to argue that the regulation environment should not be reformulated to ensure the public interest is represented in the communications as well.

It is but as I mentioned earlier that’s a very difficult task when any internet entity can remove itself from your regulatory control. As Parler just has by moving to Russian servers after Amazon ditched them.

TV channels never had that option (although radio tried with offshore studios in international waters).

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Christian wrote:

It must be such a pain for Trump that all the actors supporting him are last row or has-beens.

Trump Flew Into Jealous Rage Over Biden’s A-List Inauguration Guests, Says Report

This is the last full day of Donald Trump’s presidency. He’ll leave office after a single term in which he was impeached twice and incited a full-blown, deadly riot at the Capitol, and it could well leave him at risk of future criminal prosecution, among other legal problems. But the fact that seems to be troubling him most at this chaotic moment in time? That President-elect Joe Biden’s team has managed to persuade a bunch of A-listers to perform at his inauguration on Wednesday. According to The Washington Post, Trump is “particularly upset” that celebs—including Lady Gaga, Jennifer Lopez, and Tom Hanks—have agreed to take part in the celebrations tomorrow, because celebrities shunned his inauguration four years ago. Trump is said to be spending his last days in office frothing about being treated unfairly by almost everyone—including the Biden-backing celebs.

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Christian, Al-x, JRCarter

What a snowflake.

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JRCarter, Todd

Todd wrote:

Christian wrote:

It must be such a pain for Trump that all the actors supporting him are last row or has-beens.

Trump Flew Into Jealous Rage Over Biden’s A-List Inauguration Guests, Says Report

This is the last full day of Donald Trump’s presidency. He’ll leave office after a single term in which he was impeached twice and incited a full-blown, deadly riot at the Capitol, and it could well leave him at risk of future criminal prosecution, among other legal problems. But the fact that seems to be troubling him most at this chaotic moment in time? That President-elect Joe Biden’s team has managed to persuade a bunch of A-listers to perform at his inauguration on Wednesday. According to The Washington Post, Trump is “particularly upset” that celebs—including Lady Gaga, Jennifer Lopez, and Tom Hanks—have agreed to take part in the celebrations tomorrow, because celebrities shunned his inauguration four years ago. Trump is said to be spending his last days in office frothing about being treated unfairly by almost everyone—including the Biden-backing celebs.

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JRCarter, Todd

[Todd]

I would have thought there would have been more.

Two Army National Guard members removed from inauguration duty

• This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by Todd.

Jon wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once the mess reaches a point where it is acceptable to exploit it in a way that has historical baggage that causes people to be irrationally afraid because of how much the historical baggage has been ingrained, it’s crossed a new line. This crosses a new line that just shows how dangerous such a system can be.

No it’s really not, and no offense but you’re over-exagerating that particular issue… Again, by clicking on that “I agree” button, you’re agreeing to the terms and conditions (which happen to be a legally binding contract), whatever they may be… if that includes a horribly broken system where anyone can claim a video “just because”, then that’s how it is and that’s that. No one is forcing anyone to upload videos or to watch videos on YT, it’s a choice everyone makes.

Also, everything has “historical baggage” when you dig deep enough, and honestly your argument is very flimsy at best… and I’ll just leave it at that because let’s say that I might have some “hot takes” on the issue… best not to get into trouble (oh, and please, do note the irony in me having to censor myself when discussing “this” topic for fear of being ostracized for my opinions).

I understand- I only brought it up because me instinctive reaction reminded me of an issue that actually deals with censorship, and I was going to link it to that, but then I realized the way I was goingabout it was stupid, so I didn’t go ahead  with it.

[Jason]

.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by Jason.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

It’s different when they did it to the Chicks formerly known as Dixie. Or to French Fries.

Or this son of a bitch…

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Jason wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

It’s different when they did it to the Chicks formerly known as Dixie. Or to French Fries.

Or this son of a bitch…

That outfit looks unpatriotic to me

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JRCarter, Todd

Anonymous wrote:

According to The Washington Post, Trump is “particularly upset” that celebs—including Lady Gaga, Jennifer Lopez, and Tom Hanks—have agreed to take part in the celebrations tomorrow, because celebrities shunned his inauguration four years ago. Trump is said to be spending his last days in office frothing about being treated unfairly by almost everyone—including the Biden-backing celebs.

400,000 Americans died of Covid on his watch and all he’s thinking about is celebs. To be fair I expected nothing better.

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Will_C, lorcan_nagle, JRCarter, Todd

Todd wrote:

Last week was the closest he will ever come to coup and that was an absolute shitshow. That was his best shot.

Yes but look at the fear being generated in every state capitol and the military presence in DC. it may have been a shitshow but it did stir up unhealthy responses(IMO). I agree with Anders when he says that we re not going to be safe until he is physically removed from office.

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lorcan_nagle

Rocket wrote:

Yes but look at the fear being generated in every state capitol and the military presence in DC. it may have been a shitshow but it did stir up unhealthy responses(IMO). I agree with Anders when he says that we re not going to be safe until he is physically removed from office.

That’s not what Anders says. This is:

Rocket wrote:

that we re not going to be safe until unless he is physically removed from office.

It’s not like Anders believes it’s going to happen. It’s still just a hypothetical.

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The UK’s covid plans have leaked onto the internet. Number 10 is not happy.

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garjones wrote:

It is but as I mentioned earlier that’s a very difficult task when any internet entity can remove itself from your regulatory control. As Parler just has by moving to Russian servers after Amazon ditched them. TV channels never had that option (although radio tried with offshore studios in international waters).

Sure, it will be difficult, but doing nothing seems like a worse idea. We’ll just need to do whatever Iran, Russia or China does. We got all those CIA assassins that could use the work.

Fox News Launches ‘Purge’ to ‘Get Rid of Real Journalists,’ Insiders Say

Fox News on Tuesday fired the political editor who was tasked with defending the network’s election night decisions that especially angered President Donald Trump and his allies.

Politics editor Chris Stirewalt’s exit from the network coincided with the sacking of at least 16 digital editorial staffers, including senior editors. People familiar with the situation said the layoffs—a “blood bath,” as multiple Fox News insiders described it—were perpetrated by Porter Berry, the Sean Hannity crony now in charge of remaking Fox’s digital properties in the image of its right-wing opinion programming.

In addition to Stirewalt—the Fox News “nerd” who became the face of the network’s election-night projection for Joe Biden to win Arizona, which angered much of the network’s MAGA viewership and led to the rise of an even more obsequious, pro-Trump alternative in Newsmax—sources confirmed that long-time digital editors and reporters, some of whom had been with Fox for a decade or more, were among those laid off. (Additionally, on Monday morning, Fox News senior vice president and D.C. managing editor Bill Sammon, who is in his early 60s, announced he is “retiring at the end of the month.”)

“Fuck this,” one particularly despondent current Fox News staffer remarked to The Daily Beast.

Officially, the network claimed the layoffs are merely part of a “restructuring” initiative. “As we conclude the 2020 election cycle, Fox News Digital has realigned its business and reporting structure to meet the demands of this new era,” a spokesperson said in a statement. “We are confident these changes will ensure the platform continues to deliver breakthrough reporting and insightful analysis surrounding major issues, both stateside and abroad.”

But a dozen current and recently departed Fox News employees who spoke with The Daily Beast all said the “purge”—as a few characterized it—was part of the network’s larger effort to pivot its website from straight-news reporting to right-wing opinion content in the mold of Fox’s primetime programming.

“There is a concerted effort to get rid of real journalists,” said one recently departed Fox staffer. “They laid capable people off who were actual journalists and not blind followers.”

Others said it was an attempt to silence leakers from speaking to outside media about the changes being instituted by Porter Berry, a former producer for Hannity and Bill O’Reilly, who recently transitioned from the TV side to running Fox’s digital properties.

“Porter’s uncomfortable around and is suspicious of experienced editors,” one Fox News insider remarked to The Daily Beast. “They make him feel inept because his background is entirely in TV.”

“Porter is at the helm,” one current employee declared of the layoffs, while a recently departed staffer said: “This is all Porter. Both an ideological purge and a purge of people he was threatened by.”

“It’s essentially the final nail in the coffin for digital journalism at Fox,” another recently departed staffer declared.

Though, this former staffer noted, the shift to focusing on right-wing opinion has paid off for Berry. “What has slightly been working for him are recaps of the network’s primetime opinion shows,” the source said, and so the desire is for more “cheap labor to write a dozen 250 word recaps of the network’s primetime shows.”

Even before this round of layoffs, Berry’s management and editorial style had resulted in the departures of several key employees, such as Jason Ehrich, former executive vice president of audience development and strategic partnerships, and Greg Wilson, the former managing editor of the Fox News website, among others.

As The Daily Beast reported, Berry’s influence over the network’s online properties has raised eyebrows among staffers, largely because he continues to act as a “shadow executive producer” for Hannity—yet another sign of the increasingly blurred lines at Fox between the network’s right-wing opinion commentary and its so-called news division.

The ouster of Stirewalt came months after he publicly defended the Fox decision desk’s early (and accurate) election-night projection of Joe Biden winning Arizona’s votes. The on-air call immediately infuriated President Donald Trump, as such a projection by his then-favorite network inhibited his plans to prematurely declare victory that evening. “Jared, you call the Murdochs! Jason, you call Sammon and Hemmer!” Axios reported Trump shouting that night at his son-in-law Jared Kushner and top adviser Jason Miller.

Immediately following the Arizona call, which has been linked to angry Trump fans abandoning the network for even more fact-free, right-wing outlets like Newsmax, Stirewalt was repeatedly grilled on-air over the projection and asked whether his team would reverse its call. “Not that I see,” Stirewalt said, standing by decision desk director Arnon Mishkin’s analysis.

While the network’s pro-Trump opinion hosts openly undermined the decision desk and political team’s Arizona call, parroting the Trump campaign’s complaints, Stirewalt refused to reverse course while also throwing cold water on the president’s bogus claims of widespread voter fraud.

“Lawsuits, schmawsuits,” he said the day after the election. “We haven’t seen any evidence yet that there’s anything wrong.”

Though the network never backed off its Arizona call, and followed other major news outlets in calling the entire election for Biden days later, Stirewalt soon apparently found himself on the outs at Fox News.

Despite having been a regular on-air presence for years—including playing a pivotal role in the Fox’s 2012 election night drama in which he was forced to go on-air to defend effectively calling the election for Barack Obama—Stirewalt did not make a single network appearance after November 16.

Stirewalt’s final contribution for Fox News was a Monday afternoon digital post, titled “Put that in your Hot Pocket.”

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lorcan_nagle

lorcan_nagle wrote:

That outfit looks unpatriotic to me

Yeah, far too much red. What is he, a Commie? Better Dead than Red, am I right GOP?

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

This is from The Telegraph (aka Torygraph) newspaper:

I don’t know what kind of history they are teaching in English schools that could produce that last paragraph.

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garjones wrote:

This is from The Telegraph (aka Torygraph) newspaper:

I don’t know what kind of history they are teaching in English schools that could produce that last paragraph.

Biden has made a lot of public statements about holding the UK to the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. This is utter fantasy.

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lorcan_nagle wrote:

This is utter fantasy.

Well, one of them will turn out to be for sure.

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lorcan_nagle

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Biden has made a lot of public statements about holding the UK to the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

For me regardless of the politics and Brexit you can only write that last paragraph from a position of supreme ignorance or delusion.

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lorcan_nagle, Ben, Dave, DavidM

Yeah, that’s just an amazingly daft thing to say. Wow.

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lorcan_nagle, Ben

Todd wrote:

I would have thought there would have been more.

Two Army National Guard members removed from inauguration duty

Article has now changed to 12.

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Anonymous wrote:

The UK’s covid plans have leaked onto the internet. Number 10 is not happy.

What’s terrible is this has a fair chance of happening.

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lorcan_nagle

The best way to avoid getting covid is digging a hole, getting in a wooden box, lowering the box in the hole and putting earth over it.

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Todd

I heard that the government is going to swap the positions of box #2 and box #4 and reverse the direction of the arrows.  But only in some parts of the country.

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Ben, Todd

garjones wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Biden has made a lot of public statements about holding the UK to the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

For me regardless of the politics and Brexit you can only write that last paragraph from a position of supreme ignorance or delusion.

As much as you can BoTh SiDeS the left/right divide in the media, it increasingly feels like nominally left-wing media is at its worst blue-sky thinking while the right-wing stuff is outright lies or misdirection to keep people from questioning their positions.

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Andrew

Trump revokes ethics order barring former aides from lobbying

Shortly after pardoning members of Congress and lobbyists convicted on corruption charges, President Trump revoked an executive order barring former officials from lobbying for five years after leaving his administration.

Why it matters: The order, which was signed eight days after he took office, was an attempt to fulfill his campaign promise to “drain the swamp.”

But with less than 12 hours left in office, Trump has now removed those limitations on his own aides.

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garjones wrote:

you can only write that last paragraph from a position of supreme ignorance or delusion.

This is true of so much of the how the UK is run lately.

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Ben, Dave, lorcan_nagle, DavidM

Talking of ignorance and delusion:

El Dorado: Boris Johnson likens Brexit gains to city paved with gold that did not exist

But speaking in the Commons on Wednesday prime minister said his Brexit deal would be good for the industry, likening the future to the mythical Spanish city rumoured to be paved with gold.

El Dorado notably did not exist, a fact eventually established by explorers after numerous failed expeditions that often ended in death from hunger and disease.

 

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Maybe he was actually comparing Brexit to the BBC soap opera Eldorado, which was overly expensive, exposed regresssive UK attitudes towards continental Europe, provided no real justification for itself and everyone ultimately agreed was a bit shit.

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Ben, paul f, Christian, Martin Smith, DavidM, lorcan_nagle

Today is dominated by coverage of the inauguration which is a bit of torture. I find it really difficult to watch politicians speak. Even when they are trying to tell the truth, it sounds like they’re lying. I mean Biden’s vocal clumsiness and gaffes almost are an asset since I figure he can’t fake that… or he’s a great liar.

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JRCarter, Todd

Lady Gaga and J-Lo…well at least they’re keeping it classy.

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Todd

It’s official, Biden is now POTUS.

Dave wrote:

Maybe he was actually comparing Brexit to the BBC soap opera Eldorado, which was overly expensive, exposed regresssive UK attitudes towards continental Europe, provided no real justification for itself and everyone ultimately agreed was a bit shit.

Yes but Marcus Tandy’s boat was my uncle’s (really).

garjones wrote:

Yes but Marcus Tandy’s boat was my uncle’s (really).

(Like a lot of other people, I never watched Eldorado past the first episode.)

[garjones]

The main ‘Dirty Den’ type character was called Marcus Tandy. The BBC went to the marina in Benalmadena and picked a boat for him which happened to be owned by my uncle who had a summer villa there. They paid him to use it but he had the keys back in London so the amusing thing is the boat never actually moved. They’d film with them bringing wine and food hampers onboard for a wild day out, Marcus would stand there are the wheel and say ‘let’s go’ and then they’d cut.

Switch to another storyline and then come back to them walking off the boat with ‘well that was wild and glamorous day with champagne and truffles on the yacht Marcus’.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by garjones.

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DavidM, Christian, Ben, Dave

Watching the inauguration and the podium-wiper is really stealing the show.

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garjones, Will_C, Todd

Dave wrote:

Talking of ignorance and delusion:

El Dorado: Boris Johnson likens Brexit gains to city paved with gold that did not exist

But speaking in the Commons on Wednesday prime minister said his Brexit deal would be good for the industry, likening the future to the mythical Spanish city rumoured to be paved with gold.

El Dorado notably did not exist, a fact eventually established by explorers after numerous failed expeditions that often ended in death from hunger and disease.

 

He should have gone for Shangri-La.

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Will_C, garjones

Okay, time to admit: I was wrong. Donald Trump isn’t the president anymore. PHEW!

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DavidM, Christian, Will_C, garjones, Todd

Anonymous wrote:

Okay, time to admit: I was wrong. Donald Trump isn’t the president anymore. PHEW!

A rare time you’re glad to be wrong?

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Will_C

A rare time I admit to being wrong.

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Rocket, DavidM, Will_C, Todd

Dave wrote:

Maybe he was actually comparing Brexit to the BBC soap opera Eldorado, which was overly expensive, exposed regresssive UK attitudes towards continental Europe, provided no real justification for itself and everyone ultimately agreed was a bit shit.

Maybe he was actually comparing Brexit to the Electric Light Orchestra’s fourth LP Eldorado, which contains the excellent song “Can’t Get It Out of My Head” and a bunch of pretentious prog-rock filler songs. Maybe Boris wants to be Jeff Lynne.

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Christian, Todd

I don’t particularly like Biden, because of his history. But I thought the speech was pretty damn good. It struck the right tone. “Politics doesn’t have to a raging fire destroying everything in its path.” Well I think I’m beginning to like him a bit.

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Andrew

Congratulations to the Americans here by the way. I’m sure it must feel great to not have Trump in power any longer.

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Chris D, Todd, Ben

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some QAnon followers lose hope after inauguration

Some QAnon conspiracy theorists, in public and private internet forums and chat rooms, were despondent Wednesday as their prophecy of an Inauguration Day coup to keep Donald Trump in power failed again as President Joe Biden was sworn into office.

The situation left some QAnon adherents with no choice but to write off the conspiracy theory entirely, though others continued to maintain that it was still developing.

QAnon supporters believed Wednesday’s inauguration was an elaborate trap set by the former president, wherein Democrats would be rounded up and executed while Trump retained power. Various other doomsdays theorized by the QAnon community have also come and gone without incident.

But unlike those past days, Biden’s inauguration leaves the community with little daylight. As their predictions failed, radicalized QAnon members expressed their betrayal on messaging apps like Telegram and forums named after their failed doomsday scenario, The Great Awakening.

While Biden took the oath, one top post on a QAnon forum read: “I don’t think this is supposed to happen” and wondered, “How long does it take the fed to run up the stairs and arrest him?”

Other users became immediately dejected, realizing their dreams of a bloody coup were not going to take place.

“Anyone else feeling beyond let down?” one top post on a popular QAnon forum read. “It’s like being a kid and seeing the big gift under the tree thinking it is exactly what you want only to open it and realize it was a lump of coal.”

One of the largest QAnon groups on Telegram closed comments to let everyone “take a breather,” after Biden’s inauguration. When it reopened after charges of censorship, thousands of users commented, expressing a range of reactions: confusion and realization that QAnon was in fact a hoax, as well as renewed commitment to the conspiracy theory, despite its unreliability.

Ron Watkins, the former administrator for the message board and QAnon hub 8kun and a major force behind false conspiracy theories surrounding the election results, seemingly capitulated, posting a note to his more than 100,000 followers: “We gave it our all. Now we need to keep our chins up and go back to our lives as best we are able.”

QAnon influencers fled to fringe apps like Telegram and Gab after years of unbridled growth on larger platforms including Twitter and Facebook, which both banned QAnon accounts and content in 2020. Facebook reported Tuesday the removal of some 60,000 pages, groups and accounts that had promoted the conspiracy theory since November.

Some QAnon followers spent weeks preparing for a nationwide blackout starting at noon on Inauguration Day, warning friends and family in text chains and Facebook messages to buy CB radios and stock up on food. They believed Trump would announce martial law through the Emergency Broadcasting System before carrying out mass arrests.

Travis View, who hosts the conspiracy-debunking podcast QAnon Anonymous, said that those who make money on the conspiracy theory are having a harder time convincing adherents to keep the faith after such a spectacularly failed prediction.

“QAnon influencers who have built large audiences over the past three years continue to encourage their audiences to ‘trust the plan,’” View said. “Many rank-and-file QAnon followers are expressing anger and disillusionment.”

Some QAnon followers stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6, including a man wearing a QAnon shirt while leading a pack of protesters toward the Senate chamber.

In QAnon chats captured by the fact-checking technology company Logically.AI and reviewed by NBC News, QAnon supporters drew hard lines shortly before the inauguration began and felt instantly embarrassed when the coup did not occur.

“God help us we’re beyond ready. If nothing happens I will no longer believe in anything,” said one supporter at the beginning of inauguration.

“We all just got played,” said another, moments later.

Logically.AI researcher Nick Backovic said that while it does appear many QAnon followers are giving up after this last failed prophecy, he has seen white supremacist recruiters “raid” QAnon groups with the explicit goal of recruiting disillusioned and hopeless conspiracy theorists.

“There are lots of people feeling shocked, cheated and angry. As scary as that is on its own, it’s the rest I’m most worried about,” Backovic said. “We’re seeing a lot of Neo-Nazis preying on the potentially disenchanted Q people.”

In the days after the Capitol riots, white supremacist groups expressly targeted “Parler refugees,” or Trump fans who they believed could be radicalized after the conservative social media platform Parler was at least temporarily shut down and QAnon was banned from Twitter and Facebook.

“Focus less on trying to red pill [or recruit] them on WW2 and more on how to make them angrier about the election and the new Democrat regime,” read one white supremacist recruitment message on Telegram. “Heighten their burning hatred of injustice.”

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lorcan_nagle

Todd wrote:

Some QAnon followers lose hope after inauguration

1 user thanked author for this post.

Todd

Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations to the Americans here by the way. I’m sure it must feel great to not have Trump in power any longer.

I look forward to waking up tomorrow in a country that does not have Donald Trump as its leader.

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garjones, Todd

njerry wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations to the Americans here by the way. I’m sure it must feel great to not have Trump in power any longer.

I look forward to waking up tomorrow in a country that does not have Donald Trump as its leader.

We all do.

Okay, most of us do. There are still idiots out there.

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Todd

JRCarter wrote:

njerry wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations to the Americans here by the way. I’m sure it must feel great to not have Trump in power any longer.

I look forward to waking up tomorrow in a country that does not have Donald Trump as its leader.

We all do.

Okay, most of us do. There are still idiots out there.

Speaking of which, Won Kim shared this with me on Facebook:

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JRCarter, lorcan_nagle

Man, those Qanon guys are really at the bottom of the barrel in terms of smarts huh? You can’t even get decent whackos these days… that’s kinda sad.

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Todd

It’s either believing in ShadowPrez or something like it, or they’d have to admit that the creed they’ve believed in, that they’ve followed in word and deed, that they’ve lost friends and family over (who told them they’re nuts), that many probably have spent a considerable amount of money on, that they’ve based their personal future on completely – that that was all nonsense and that they’ve been duped completely and their lives are in shambles.

So instead, you double down, because as long as you do, everything is fine. It’s how cults work. It’s how Applewhite got people to commit suicide rather than face the truth that he was a charlatan.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

It’s OK guys, Biden was in on it all along

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Todd, Dave

Wow, she just took the Olympic gold in mental gymnastics.

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Todd, garjones, lorcan_nagle

It’s a bit funny (also very sad) that to stop their worldview collapsing they have to come up with a theory like “shadowprez” seemingly without realising that, if true, it would be exactly the kind of “deep state” conspiracy that they’ve been actively raging against.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

Martin Smith wrote:

“shadowprez”

?

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Todd, Ben, lorcan_nagle

njerry wrote:

a bunch of pretentious prog-rock filler songs

Your sentence is perfectly grammatical and yet still makes no sense

 

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Christian, Todd, njerry

This isn’t strictly political, but it’s an interesting view of how QAnon works:

https://medium.com/curiouserinstitute/a-game-designers-analysis-of-qanon-580972548be5

Starting from a situation probably very familiar to people who GM role-playing games:

It was a problem because three of the pieces made the shape of a perfect arrow pointing right at a blank wall. It was uncanny. It had to be a clue. The investigators stopped and stared at the wall and were determined to figure out what the clue meant and they were not going one step further until they did. The whole game was derailed. Then, it got worse. Since there obviously was no clue there, the group decided the clue they were looking for was IN the wall. The collection of ordinary tools they found conveniently laying around seemed to enforce their conclusion that this was the correct direction. The arrow was pointing to the clue and the tools were how they would get to it. How obvious could it be?

I stared in horror because it all fit so well. It was better and more obvious than the clue I had hidden. I could see it. It was all random chance but I could see the connections that had been made were all completely logical. I had a crude backup plan and I used it quickly before these well-meaning players started tearing apart the basement wall with crowbars looking for clues that did not exist.

These were normal people and their assumptions were normal and logical and completely wrong.

And that is exactly how the QAnon “GMs” get people to go down their rabbit holes. People are naturally inclined to see clues that aren’t there (something that’s apparently a know psychological phenomenon, called apophenia).

QAnon grows on the wild misinterpretation of random data, presented in a suggestive fashion in a milieu designed to help the users come to the intended misunderstanding. Maybe “guided apophenia” is a better phrase. Guided because the puppet masters are directly involved in hinting about the desired conclusions. They have pre-seeded the conclusions. They are constantly getting the player lost by pointing out unrelated random events and creating a meaning for them that fits the propaganda message Q is delivering.

There is no reality here. No actual solution in the real world. Instead, this is a breadcrumb trail AWAY from reality. Away from actual solutions and towards a dangerous psychological rush. It works very well because when you “figure it out yourself” you own it. You experience the thrill of discovery, the excitement of the rabbit hole, the acceptance of a community that loves and respects you. Because you were convinced to “connect the dots yourself” you can see the absolute logic of it. This is the conclusion you arrived at.

I particularly like the idea that “Q” is basically the “old man in the inn” who sends you off on the RPG quest (this maybe is a discussion for our Storytelling thread):

Let’s think about this for a minute. How many great movies, books, and TV shows would have been forever ruined if the mysterious stranger just laid it all out for the protagonists in the first meeting. “Jim did it. It’s Jim. He’s laundering money for the mob. Check his bank records. Never mind, I have them right here.” The X-Files would be a lot shorter if The Smoking Man had just used his words!

It doesn’t work that way. The fictional mysterious stranger already knows, but instead of telling you the answer in the first ten minutes, they give you clues. Hard to follow clues. Ambiguous clues. They say things like “Follow the money. Don’t let them fool you. This goes all the way to the top.”

There is no reason for this in reality, but fictionally, this is what creates the whole plot, the sense of mystery, and everything entertaining that is to follow. This is the white rabbit. This is the breadcrumb trail out of the forest.

It doesn’t work for reality. Real people in the government with important information to disseminate deliver it as fast as possible usually all in one go. They don’t make you solve things. They try to be as specific as possible. They are whistle blowers. Daniel Ellsberg (the Pentagon Papers). Edward Snowden. Chelsea Manning. Etc.

Q is NOT a whistleblower. Q is a “plot device”. Q is fictional and acts exactly like a fictional character acts. This is because the purpose of Q is not to divulge actual information, but to create fiction.

I’m not going to quote the whole thing, it’s a very long article, but it’s worth a read.

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Todd, Martin Smith, lorcan_nagle

DavidM wrote:

People are naturally inclined to see clues that aren’t there (something that’s apparently a know psychological phenomenon, called apophenia).

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Todd

DavidM wrote:

Your sentence is perfectly grammatical and yet still makes no sense

Are you sitting down, David?

I’m a big Jeff Lynne/ELO fan. Have been since 10538 Overture.

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DavidM, Todd

DavidM wrote:

People are naturally inclined to see clues that aren’t there

Two of the more successful film franchises in recent years, Tom Cruise’s MISSION IMPOSSIBLE series and the Daniel Craig JAMES BOND films, have both used the plot device that one overarching antagonist has been orchestrating everything behind the scenes for years. Too many people would rather believe in such conspiracies than to accept that things happen randomly or without apparent reason.

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Andrew

Martin Smith wrote:

DavidM wrote:

People are naturally inclined to see clues that aren’t there (something that’s apparently a know psychological phenomenon, called apophenia).

1 user thanked author for this post.

Christian

Some more Q stories:

‘It’s Over’: Devastated QAnon Believers Grapple With President Joe Biden’s Inauguration

‘I’m About to Puke’: QAnon in Chaos as Biden Takes Office

I saw this story about the potential fallout of the failure of Qanon:

QAnon’s ‘Great Awakening’ failed to materialize. What’s next could be worse

Shortly before Joe Biden was sworn in as the 46th president of the United States, Dave Hayes – a longtime QAnon influencer who goes by the name Praying Medic – posted a photo of dark storm clouds gathering over the US Capitol on the rightwing social media platform Gab. “What a beautiful black sky,” he wrote to his 92,000 followers, appending a thunderclap emoji.

The message was clear to those well-versed in QAnon lore: “the Storm” – the day of reckoning when Donald Trump and his faithful allies in the military would declare martial law, round up all their many political enemies, and send them to Guantánamo Bay for execution by hanging – was finally here. 20 January 2021 wouldn’t mark the end of Trump’s presidency, but the beginning of “the Great Awakening”.

Instead, Trump slunk off to Florida and Biden took the oath of office under a clear blue sky. Now QAnon adherents are left to figure out how to move forward in a world that, time and time again, has proven impervious to their fevered fantasies and fascistic predictions. And while some seem to be waking up to reality, others are doubling down, raising concerns among experts that the movement is ripe for even more extreme radicalization.

“My primary concern about this moment is the Q to JQ move,” said Brian Friedberg, a senior researcher at Harvard’s Shorenstein Center, referring to “the Jewish question”, a phrase that white nationalists and neo-Nazis use to discuss their antisemitic belief that Jews control the world. Friedberg said that he had seen clear signs that white nationalists and alt-right figures, who have long disliked QAnon because it focused the Maga movement’s energies away from the “white identity movement”, were preparing to take advantage.

“They view this as a great opportunity to do a mass red-pilling,” he said.

Travis View, a co-host of the podcast QAnon Anonymous who has studied the movement closely for years, concurred. “The greatest risk is that people who become disillusioned in QAnon are going to these channels where they might be recruited by white nationalists or other extremists,” he said. “In QAnon world, they already believed that George Soros and the Rothschilds controlled the world. It’s not that far to go from ‘there’s a globalist cabal’ to ‘there’s a Jewish conspiracy’.”

The storm that didn’t come
As Biden took the oath of office just before noon on Wednesday, a QAnon channel on Telegram lit up with laments.

“We’ve been lied to,” wrote one person.

“I think we have been fooled like no other,” another responded, adding: “Hate to say it. Held on to hope til this very moment.”

“I feel like I’m losing my mind,” said a third. “I don’t know what to believe anymore.”

“Anyone else feeling beyond let down right now?” read a popular post on a QAnon message board. “It’s like being a kid and seeing the big gift under the tree thinking it is exactly what you want only to open it and realize it was a lump of coal the whole time.”

QAnon adherents are used to dealing with predictions that have not come true. The conspiracy theory began in October 2017 when an anonymous internet user posing as a government insider posted on 4chan that Hillary Clinton was about to be arrested, that her passport had been flagged, and that the government was preparing for “massive riots”. None of that happened, nor did any of the myriad other arrests, declassifications, executions, resignations or revelations that the anonymous poster, who came to be known as Q, has promised believers for the past three years. But the movement has nevertheless grown in size and influence, becoming a meaningful force in the Republican party and a motivating factor for many of the insurrectionists who attacked the US Capitol on 6 January.

“A lot of QAnon followers are expressing a lot of anger and disillusionment and feeling they are being misled,” said View, who expects the movement to “fracture” as followers grapple with the end of Trump’s presidency. “There may be people who fall off quietly because they were just along for the ride and it isn’t fun any more, but these kind of movements will always have true believers. Over and over again we’ve seen huge dis-confirming events that didn’t cause people to lose faith.”

That resilience in false belief was apparent among some QAnon followers on Wednesday. They took solace in the number of flags placed on the dais when Trump gave farewell remarks from a military base before departing on Air Force One: there were 17, which followers interpreted as a secret message to them, since “Q” is the 17th letter of the alphabet.

Others returned to the process of “baking” – or reinterpreting through their obscure and esoteric epistemology – the thousands of missives that Q has posted over the years, in order to find a new way to understand the unfolding events, and to tell themselves that Q was right all along. “Like many of you, I am in shock by today’s [events] and then I realized why it had to happen and that Q told us it would happen and, why this NEEDED to happen,” read one popular post on a QAnon forum, which went on to detail a new theory that explains why Q’s false predictions were in fact correct.

One of the most important figures in QAnon, Ron Watkins, appeared ready to call it quits, writing to his more than 100,000 followers on Telegram: “We gave it our all. Now we need to keep our chins up and go back to our lives as best we are able.”

Watkins is the son of Jim Watkins, the owner of the message boards that Q relied on to make anonymous posts, 8chan and 8kun. When Q stopped posting new material on 8kun following the November election, Watkins began promoting a steady stream of baseless allegations of election fraud to a large Twitter audience.

View warned that Watkins’s statements should not be taken at face value, noting that after the election he claimed that he would stop running 8kun in order to focus on his woodworking. “Instead, he filled the vacuum of Q by spreading conspiracy theories,” View said. “I would be wary of anything Ron Watkins says.”

No reason to stop
Watkins made his pronouncement on Telegram, a messaging app that has seen its QAnon community explode in the wake of recent crackdowns by Facebook and Twitter. Sweeping bans on QAnon influencers and communities since 6 January and the deplatforming of Parler have forced QAnon communities to attempt to reconstitute on alternative social media platforms, including Telegram and Gab, sites that have long been the haven of white nationalists, neo-Nazis and the dregs of the alt-right.

The QAnon narrative has always been fundamentally antisemitic (the “globalist cabal” is a remix of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, while another major QAnon belief is a modern remaking of the blood libel), but many of the top QAnon influencers shied away from overt antisemitism, leaving it to posters on 8kun while promoting a slightly more sanitized version of QAnon on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter.

“Now that QAnon has coalesced on alt-tech, where Nazis have had a few years of head start, organized antisemitism is even fewer clicks away,” warned Friedberg.

Friedberg also anticipates that some QAnon followers will choose to follow a path “from the esoteric to the neoconservative” rather than adopting white nationalism. This countercurrent of the movement is focused on exalting American militarism and patriotism, and opposing communism, especially the Chinese Communist party.

Ultimately, Friedberg said, Trump’s departure will only help reinforce the “underdog mentality” and sense of grievance that has defined QAnon since the beginning, ensuring that the movement won’t just disappear.

“The things that they hate are still there,” Friedberg said. “The fetishization of Trump is certainly real, but the hatred of the ‘deep state’, of communists, of liberals, antifa – all these institutions are still there, and they won.”

“That underdog mentality, which was illogical when Trump was president, is now justified,” he added. “There’s no reason to stop hating.”

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lorcan_nagle

DavidM wrote:

This isn’t strictly political, but it’s an interesting view of how QAnon works: https://medium.com/curiouserinstitute/a-game-designers-analysis-of-qanon-580972548be5%5B/quote%5D
That was a great read, thanks D-Man!

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lorcan_nagle

Won Kim shared this link with me on Facebook:

QAnon Woke Up the Real Deep State

To the QAnon community, and others involved in storming the Capitol:

The Deep State is real, but it’s not what you think. The Deep State you worry about is mostly made up; a fiction, a lie, a product of active imaginations, grifter manipulations, and the internet. I’m telling you this now because storming the Capitol building has drawn the attention of the real Deep State — the national security bureaucracy — and it’s important you understand what that means.
You attacked America. Maybe you think it was justified — as a response to a stolen election, or a cabal of child-trafficking pedophiles, or whatever — but it was still a violent attack on the United States. No matter how you describe it, that’s how the real Deep State is going to treat it.

The impact of that will make everything else feel like a LARP.

The Real Deep State
I’ve been teaching college students about the Deep State for years, and have interacted with it on occasion. By “Deep State,” I’m referring to executive branch agencies populated with unelected officials, especially those involving national security, law enforcement, and intelligence. The non-nefarious name for it is “the federal bureaucracy,” with the subset that includes the military, CIA, and FBI known as “the national security state.”

In 2017, conservative writer David Frum quipped that if you replaced “Deep State” with “rule of law,” you’d have a better understanding of Trumpist complaints.

There’s some truth in that. Federal agencies and their mandates were created by law, their annual budgets are determined by law, and they’re overseen by elected officials. Their main job is executing U.S. law, and one reason they’ve clashed with the White House is being asked to do things outside their legal abilities, or to not do things that are legally required.

So rule of law is part of it, but it’s not that simple.

The president appoints and the Senate confirms top officials, from the Secretary of State to the five members of the Arctic Research Commission, over 1,200 in total. Every other executive branch employee — over 4 million if you include the military, over 2.7 million if you don’t — is hired or recruited, not elected or appointed. This means that the Departments of State, Defense, Justice, the intelligence community, and federal law enforcement are staffed with people the agencies hired themselves.

Their mandates are broad. For example, the FBI is supposed to “investigate federal crimes and threats to national security.” While there are laws giving the FBI certain powers (e.g. to arrest people) and limits (needing warrants), a lot is open to interpretation, especially regarding national security threats.

It’s fair to say the FBI, CIA, IRS, CDC, and other federal agencies have, to some extent, taken on lives of their own. So has the military, and the larger defense-industrial complex. They’re under control of elected and appointed leaders, but also not, acting according to established laws, established regulations (many of which they wrote themselves), and individual judgment calls. You could call that “the Deep State.”

National Security
If you want to understand the real Deep State, the biggest thing you need to know is it’s institutional, impersonal, and operates on a national scale.

The law enforcement-intelligence-national security bureaucracy doesn’t really care about a lot of the little things people think it cares about. It’s mostly focused on terrorists, serial killers, narco-traffickers, and foreign governments. Threats to the nation.
Previous QAnon activity wasn’t on that scale, but the Capitol attack is. I don’t think this has sunk in yet. It wasn’t 9/11, but it was bigger than, for example, Benghazi.

Americans storming the Capitol to prevent Congress from carrying out election law hasn’t happened before. When four Puerto Rican nationalists shot at Congressmen from the House balcony in 1954, they were rightly called terrorists, convicted in federal court, and imprisoned. And that was just four attackers, no one died, and it wasn’t encouraged by a losing presidential candidate to disrupt the peaceful transition of power.

The Capitol attack was a unique event in American history, something they’ll teach about in high school. National security analysts are comparing it to last year’s FBI-thwarted plot to kidnap and execute Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, which came a few months after armed demonstrators forcefully stopped business at the Michigan statehouse. There have been armed post-election demonstrations at multiple statehouses, and reports of plots to storm them next week.

It’s a pattern. And after the Capitol attack, the Deep State is going to take it seriously.

U.S. code defines “sedition” as using “force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States.” That’s what you did. And the legal process you tried to stop is one of the most important in American democracy.

Five people are dead, and it could’ve easily been more. You beat a police officer to death and injured others. You set up a gallows and chanted “hang Mike Pence.” While some goofy attention-seekers attracted the most focus at first, it’s increasingly clear that some who stormed the Capitol, likely members of far right militias, were searching for Vice President Pence, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, and other national leaders, and would’ve killed them if they had the chance. That’s terrorism, fortunately thwarted by Capitol security and luck.

Compare that to, for example, riots this past summer. Looting is bad, but it’s a problem for police and insurance companies. Trying to burn down a police station or courthouse is worse, but that too is a law enforcement problem, perhaps one requiring federal assistance. Storming the Capitol, forcefully hindering the execution of U.S. law, and trying to kill top elected officials is a national security problem.

What you did was on another level, and the reaction will be too.

After the Capitol Attack
By “you,” I don’t mean you personally (unless you were there), but your movement as a whole. QAnon’s fingerprints are all over this.
A 35-year-old woman named Ashli Babbitt, shot by Capitol police as she climbed through an opening near where elected officials were hiding, was a QAnon believer who thought she was taking part in the prophesized “storm.” The guy in the horns who traipsed through the Senate chamber is known as the “Q Shaman.” QAnon slogans and hashtags, such as “where we go one we go all,” can be seen on shirts and signs at the riot, and on tons of related social media posts.

This means that, for the first time, the Deep State cares about you.

No matter what anyone’s told you, Deep State operatives weren’t spending their time messing with your internet discussions. That’s below their radar. It wasn’t until May 2019 that an FBI intelligence bulletin warned of the potential for terrorism from “conspiracy theory-driven domestic extremists,” using QAnon and Pizzagate as examples. But it didn’t become a law enforcement or counterterrorism priority.

I should know — I’ve been trying to get them to take QAnon more seriously. This past August, after Trump publicly acknowledged the movement, I warned of the potential for election violence in a national security publication called Defense One:

Win, lose, or too close to call, Trump will be in a position to activate the violent subsets of QAnon, deliberately or inadvertently. The president has been insisting, without evidence, that the election will be rigged, blaming an ambiguous “they” or a rotating cast of villains. The conspiracy-minded QAnon community makes for a receptive audience.

If Trump starts tweeting things like “RIGGED! They’re trying to take your country. Don’t let them! THIS IS IT! Second Amendment!” — let alone if he uses QAnon lingo like “the Storm is upon us” — there’s a risk that some violence-embracing QAnon followers decide to act. And if some do, it could encourage others.

That’s basically what happened. If anything, I think I guessed low.

But now that QAnon was involved in violent sedition, the national security state is paying attention. Arrests of people caught on camera storming the Capitol have already begun. Prosecutions will follow. Big tech companies — who, while powerful, are weaker than, and have a healthy fear of the government — are now treating QAnon almost like how they treat ISIS. A giant federal apparatus built to fight al Qaeda will shift some capacity to fighting you, especially the white nationalist and anti-government militias in your orbit.

You cheered on lawyers who said they’d release the Kraken. But now you’ve poked Leviathan.

This is what you need to absorb: QAnon and “stop the steal” are forever associated with a violent attack against the United States. Maybe that’s not what it’s meant to you, maybe you think that’s a misread of last week’s events, but that’s how the real Deep State, a lot of elected officials, and much of the public sees it.

If that isn’t what you signed up for, now would be a good time to get out.

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njerry, Ben, lorcan_nagle

Frickin Ted Cruz, man:
Ted Cruz Tries To Slam Biden’s First Day In The Most Clueless Way Possible

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Todd, njerry, lorcan_nagle

lorcan_nagle wrote:

It’s OK guys, Biden was in on it all along

I’m happy to admit that I didn’t understand a word of what that lady was saying in her post. She’s really deep down that rabbit hole. My brain can’t even make sense of the things she’s saying she sees down there.

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Todd, njerry, lorcan_nagle

Chris D wrote:

I’m happy to admit that I didn’t understand a word of what that lady was saying in her post. She’s really deep down that rabbit hole. My brain can’t even make sense of the things she’s saying she sees down there.

Don’t worry, this will answer any and all questions:

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Christian, Ben, Chris D, Todd, njerry, Steve Sensible

Todd wrote:

“the Jewish question”, a phrase that white nationalists and neo-Nazis use to discuss their antisemitic belief that Jews control the world.

Ummm……Actual Nazis did use that phrase. It’s not something Neo-Nazis came up with.

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Todd

JRCarter wrote:

Frickin Ted Cruz, man:
Ted Cruz Tries To Slam Biden’s First Day In The Most Clueless Way Possible

To be fair, clueless is only way Cruz can respond.

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JRCarter

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Chris D wrote:

I’m happy to admit that I didn’t understand a word of what that lady was saying in her post. She’s really deep down that rabbit hole. My brain can’t even make sense of the things she’s saying she sees down there.

Don’t worry, this will answer any and all questions:

What the fuck, Lorcan? Why are giving us only a tiny piece, the barest sliver?

WHAT ARE YOU HIDING???

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lorcan_nagle

Todd wrote:

What the fuck, Lorcan? Why are giving us only a tiny piece, the barest sliver?

WHAT ARE YOU HIDING???

You need to complete these four courses at five grand a pop for the next part of the image.

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Christian, Todd

DavidM wrote:

They say things like “Follow the money

I mean, that’s a nice piece… but I hope he’s not trying to associate “following the money” with conspiracy theories, because following the money is literally one of the smartest things one can do. That’s how they catch most crooks and corruption schemes.

Also, I think there’s also a lot to say about survivalist fantasies, when it comes to these types of folks, in exploring the psychological whys and hows, but I’m waaay too lazy to write that post at the moment… u_u

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DavidM, Todd

The Trump administration on its last day declared the treatment of Uyghurs in China as genocide.

 

I wonder what that means for business dealings with China. Is this just rhetoric or does it have political and strategic consequences? If so, how will Biden deal with it?

Anonymous wrote:

I wonder what that means for business dealings with China. Is this just rhetoric or does it have political and strategic consequences? If so, how will Biden deal with it?

It’s a really good question. In truth we shouldn’t deal with them at all but neo-liberal economics means they make huge amounts of what we consume. There is barely any piece of technology we own that isn’t made in China.

If you removed everything made in China right now then this message board would be fucked.

It’s easy to put crippling sanctions on Cuba or Iran because we can easily live without them (even that can be a stretch though with a Republican politician (Arnie) happily puffing on Cohiba cigars in public).

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lorcan_nagle wrote:

Todd wrote:

What the fuck, Lorcan? Why are giving us only a tiny piece, the barest sliver?

WHAT ARE YOU HIDING???

You need to complete these four courses at five grand a pop for the next part of the image.

So I’m getting the discounted rate?

Todd wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Todd wrote:

What the fuck, Lorcan? Why are giving us only a tiny piece, the barest sliver?

WHAT ARE YOU HIDING???

You need to complete these four courses at five grand a pop for the next part of the image.

So I’m getting the discounted rate?

Yeah, mate’s rates for sure

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Todd

BREAKING: President Trump had pardoned Thanos. pic.twitter.com/JNXzvJzpuT

— Mark Ruffalo (@MarkRuffalo) January 20, 2021

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Todd

garjones wrote:

It’s a really good question. In truth we shouldn’t deal with them at all but neo-liberal economics means they make huge amounts of what we consume. There is barely any piece of technology we own that isn’t made in China.

Yeah this is a really awful situation. We are happily doing business with a country that has concentration camps. They make most of our tech of course, and also pharmaceuticals. They also own infrastructure in a lot of countries around the world, including in Europe.

 

But it’s tough to do anything about it. I wonder if they could do targeted sanctions against individuals the way they do with Russia. It is hard to think of what to do, but it’s good that we called the treatment of Uighurs what it is. The same should happen for Tibet.

Anonymous wrote:

We are happily doing business with a country that has concentration camps. They make most of our tech of course, and also pharmaceuticals.

Are you talking about America or China there?

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Rocket, Todd

Anonymous wrote:

But it’s tough to do anything about it. I wonder if they could do targeted sanctions against individuals the way they do with Russia.

There is a member of the CCP who owns land in America. I don’t think the government can do anything about it, but if the people who live in the same place as people hired to work the property would treat such workers as complacent in genocide, and refuse them any services they can legally, it might be a start. And the government could strip him of the option of bringing in Chinese workers by saying that the country cannot allow visas for workers from foreign countries if there is reasonable suspicion that they are being forced to work on US soil by a foreign government or representatives of said government.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Arjan Dirkse wrote: We are happily doing business with a country that has concentration camps. They make most of our tech of course, and also pharmaceuticals.

Are you talking about America or China there?

It is the worst trouble we’re in currently – all due to GW Bush administration and the War on Terror. However, really, a lot of the problem started with the Wars on “Organized Crime” and “Drugs.” Primarily, many of the powers police used to fight drugs actually violate constitutional limitations and civil rights, but the scare tactics of the politics made them legal. Then a lot of the framework for the Patriot Act and terrible things like Gitmo and Extraordinary Rendition were set up by the way the war on drugs was prosecuted.

The primary error, of course, was that drug addiction is a medical condition. You can’t treat a disease with arrests and imprisonment and expect that to be all you need to do. So, naturally, the fact that law enforcement did not put a dent into the drug trade and use led politicians to simply “try harder” and thus violate all our rights rather than try something else.

Also, as far as most of the security agencies involved in the War on Terror came out of the environment of the Cold War where the basic philosophy was that any action was justified because the alternative was World War 3. When it was a choice in their minds between nuclear armageddon versus torturing and/or killing enemy agents, then there didn’t seem to be much choice. So, even though most of those agents had retired (or gone into private consulting) when 9-11 happened, the bureaucracies and policies they formed were still in place in the institutions that took over.

Until new institutions are formed and the old ones are dismantled, we’re always going to be led into this extreme thinking where our agencies end up violating every value to protect our principles.

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