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Politics: Biden, Brexit and Beyond
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Well alternatively you can continue living in a divided shithole, whatever suits you.
Constantly forgiving violent extremist conservatives has worked so well at fixing the damage they’ve done to American culture so far, I bet it’ll work even better this time.
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Of course it’s rattled them to some degree, but that doesn’t mean they won’t turn around and cynically harness that energy in like two weeks’ time.
It doesn’t necessarily, but one can almost hope. Or we can at least hope that enough of them will get fed up with the bullshit that there’ll be enough of an internal struggle to weaken the party so it’ll be at least three terms until they’ve got a realistic shot at the presidency. That’s kinda what I’m hoping for here.
Well there can be consequences…but that doesn’t mean you don’t need healing. Of course people like the assholes who stormed the Capitol deserve punishment. But the division in the US is so big that it seems impossible to thrive as a country without trying to fix it.
The problem with that is that there’s already voices talking about how healing the division means that Biden shouldn’t use the advantage he now has with the majority in the Senate to push through progressive policies, but rather embrace the other half of the country by being more gentle etc. etc.
Which is never going to work. These maniacs will keep screaming communism no matter what, and all that middle-of-the-road approach would do is divide the Democratic Party – which has only triumphed in this election because it was Trump and is actually stuck in a fight between actual progressive and pseudo-Republicans, let’s not forget that. If Biden doesn’t use the power he now has to actually make a change for the better, he will lose the progressives entirely and then the Dems are out again for not having any balls, as is usually how it goes with them.
So, from that perspective, sod healing. Show them what progressive politics mean. Let them scream their heads off about it and fulfill your obligation to the American people.5 users thanked author for this post.
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Healing? The US has spent at least 12 years being reasonable to the right wing, the return on that investment? Minus fuck all.
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Rush Limbaugh deactivates his Twitter account after President Trump permanently banned
So, Twitter has gotten only slightly less toxic.
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Well alternatively you can continue living in a divided shithole, whatever suits you.
The Nuremberg trials didn’t exactly stop the healing process. One could say it was an extremely vital part of that process.
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Hmm, looks like my last post got deleted or something (still see it in my profile, but it disappeared from this thread for some reason). Oh well, long story short, I think we need to hold people accountable in order for healing to really begin and I don’t think the GOP should get to use the fear of more violence as a protective shield when it’s a situation they helped create. Not that it matters, they’re a trash party that will continue to do trash things and refuse responsibility for the it. That’s just who they are.
I will say, it is kind of nice to see even conservative site like National Review take Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz to task over their behavior. Will it last long? Probably not, but for now I’ll enjoy them blasting those two for the crap they’ve done.
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Trump’s Twitter ban is having some positive effects:
Rush Limbaugh deactivates his Twitter account after President Trump permanently banned
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Trump’s Twitter ban is having some positive effects:
Rush Limbaugh deactivates his Twitter account after President Trump permanently banned
Ahem:
*points a few posts up*
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Well alternatively you can continue living in a divided shithole, whatever suits you.
No, please do enlighten us as to what “healing” you think the left/Democrats/liberals/whoever should be doing right now in the face of insurrection from Trump’s nutters and how.
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Exactly, it is funny that the political wing that did not raid the Capitol is now being called upon to behave with restraint, sympathy and charity. However, as Lorcan noted earlier, 45% of Republicans agreed with the pro-Trump mob. Not sure if that means they lie within one or other of the extremely contradictory positions we’re hearing from the pro-Trump Ministry of Truth that both the mob’s invasion of the Capitol building was justified and that it was also actually led by secret agents from Antifa or even the Reptilian Illuminati masquerading as MAGA militiamen.
However, what is notable is that it is only 45%. If you go back and look at every Trump scandal or lie or inhuman proposal, his support in the Republican party barely sank below 85%. The fact that this action can’t even reach 50% support indicates a major injury to the Trump brand. Now is not the time to back away from criticism of the actual supporters of Trump as it is the best time to reach the reasonable conservatives who are starting to see that he’s just a conman and has led them to the point of betraying every principle that they ignorantly and fearfully have been projecting upon him.
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It’s more that insurrection has never been tolerated to any degree in the history of the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War
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Any oncologist will tell you the real healing cannot start until the cancerous tumor has been removed. Which is exactly what Nancy Pelosi is trying to do via the Articles of Impeachment.
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Well alternatively you can continue living in a divided shithole, whatever suits you.
No, please do enlighten us as to what “healing” you think the left/Democrats/liberals/whoever should be doing right now in the face of insurrection from Trump’s nutters and how.
It’s been this way for a while, at least since Obama won in 2008 and racism on the right exploded like nothing we’d seen since the Civil Rights era, but the only “reconciliation” they would accept is the total elimination of the Democratic Party. They don’t want liberals and progressives in power under any circumstances. There’s no uniting with that. The left needs to govern without worrying about what the right wants just as the right has governed without us for so long.
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No, please do enlighten us as to what “healing” you think the left/Democrats/liberals/whoever should be doing right now in the face of insurrection from Trump’s nutters and how.
I think people need to talk more with people who are on the other side of the divide. If you know people who are on that side, invite them over, talk about their dreams or aspirations, their fears, how they feel about the future etc. Both sides demonize each other, and I think both sides need to work to come together. That’s a common responsibility though, I never said it is just the democrats who need to do that.
Of course criminals have to be punished though, the people who were involved in the insurrection should face the consequence. Some people are just too messed up to reach.
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That’s a common responsibility though, I never said it is just the democrats who need to do that.
The Democrats have been doing this for years and keep getting told to get fucked. There’s no way that this is a common responsibility.
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Talk to the other side? Obama did that to the utmost. The other side’s reply? Blazing Saddles (“Fuck you, *****”)
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The Democrats have been doing this for years and keep getting told to get fucked. There’s no way that this is a common responsibility.
The Republicans are certainly not taking any responsibility despite spending the past weeks redoubling efforts to overturn the election and repeating falsified claims of election fraud daily leading up to the violence and death on Tuesday. Then, when that absolute fact is pointed out and those actions condemned, what is their response? The Democrats are to blame for playing politics.
“If he’s the only one saying it, that’s one thing,” Biden said, referring to Trump, to the press after a speech on Friday. “But the acolytes that follow him, like Cruz and others, they are as responsible as he is.”
“I think the American public has a real good clear look at who they are,” Biden added. “They’re part of the big lie.”
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Cruz, as well as other Republicans like Sen. Josh Hawley of Missouri, have been criticized for objecting to a congressional procedure to count the 2020 presidential race’s Electoral College votes. Democrats and Republicans have alleged that their claims gave credence to conspiracy theories that have repeatedly been struck down by federal judges, and that they were predicated on debunked theories of widespread voter fraud.
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“No one should be surprised to see Democrats playing politics and to see them try to attack strong conservative leaders,” Cruz said during a radio interview. “That’s something Democrats have done for a long time. I do think it’s really cynical for them to be trying to take advantage of what was a tragic event that occurred yesterday in Washington – the terrorist attack on the Capitol.”
Boyle responded to Cruz on Twitter, telling him to “just stop.”
“You know better. I know you know better,” Boyle tweeted. “It’s not a f—— game. Five people were killed.”
There is simply no room for conciliatory behavior in response to the reckless behavior and continued assault on the election results.
“What the f— is it going to take for you to end this s—,” Boyle added. “How many more 20-yr old staffers do you want to be terrorized and hiding in our offices?”
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Trump supporters today:
It’s like I was drunk since June 2016 and just sobered up.
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A Small Talent For War wrote: It’s more that insurrection has never been tolerated to any degree in the history of the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War%5B/quote%5D
That’s a good point, but it offers an important insight into American politics. The War of Independence is often called, especially here, the American Revolution. However, if it is compared to any other actual rebellion – like the Confederate Rebellion of the Civil War – or actual revolution, like the English Civil War that put Cromwell into power or the French Revolution that put a mob into power or the Russian Revolution that put the Bolsheviks into power, it’s easy to see that the rebellion of the American colonies against the British Crown was nothing like a revolution. Essentially, the leaders who were in power in the actual geographic region of the 13 colonies remained in power after the War of Independence. That’s an important distinction. In most revolutions, the citizenry – or their representatives in the revolt – overthrow the actual immediate rulers directly above them in their states. Which would be something like the overthrow of the Shah of Iran, for example, in recent memory, by the theocratic forces of the Ayatollah.The fact that the actual government of colonies remained intact after the War of Independence is the most obvious reason that the leadership of the new nation did not disintegrate into an absolute dictatorial horror as it normally does after quite possibly every revolution known to history. The Russian revolution resulted in Stalin and the Purges, the French revolution resulted in the Reign of Terror and Napoleon, the Chinese Revolution resulted in Mao and the Cultural Revolution, the revolution in Iran resulted in the Ayatollah and Islamic theocratic terror to this day. Those guys sure knew how to eliminate divisions in politics – is that what we want?
As far as the idea that division in a country is a terrible thing, well, honestly, that’s what politics is for. If everyone was unified, then why would we need politics? Division is a good thing when you are determined to achieve anything in politics, and we absolutely don’t want representatives who are afraid of division to the point that they give way on our interests. I personally want a politician who will say “f— you” to the opposition when they screw our side over.
Because, honestly, we all have to admit we are not in a democracy. A democracy means we are involved in every decision by the government – not just the election. The actual government is composed of democratically elected members and appointed officials. That does not mean it is a democracy. Our only participation is in the selection, not the administration.
Therefore, you want to select the hard-asses, the assholes and the best fighters who recognize the divisions and pick a side.
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Stupid horns guy has been arrested.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55606044
I arranged to meet Jake Angeli, also known as the “Q Shaman”, at a rally in Phoenix on Saturday to talk about his role in Wednesday’s riot, or in what he called that “beautiful day”.
Timings were difficult he said, because he had a voluntary appointment with the FBI first.
I didn’t find that surprising. The fact he thought he might be free to leave, more so.
But he was unperturbed because, he said, he had done nothing wrong and he had truth and God on his side.
Earlier I asked Trump supporters in Tuscon if what they saw on Wednesday had changed their opinion of the outgoing president. No, they said, it was peaceful protest that had been infiltrated by violent members of the far left.
I asked Jake Angeli if that was what he witnessed. He told me there were no members of Antifa or any other left-wing organisations present in or around the Capitol building on 6 January. It was “patriots doing what our founding fathers would have done”. The reason he knew that was “because Antifa are cowards who have no commitment to their country or their cause”.
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I think that like ISIS fighters who went to Syria from the West in part stuff like this is a mental health crisis. The horns dude was also a QAnon supporter and if you believe in QAnon you’ve got worms in your brain. Tim Dillon commented on one lady who was interviewed at the Capitol siege who when asked why she was doing what she was doing, answered very matter of factly, like the interviewer was asking a stupid question. “Well it’s the revolution.” To think a mob of a couple of thousand people is going to overthrow the US government, your brain took a couple of wrong turns.
I think the media diet these people take in is lethal. Just a steady stream of fear propaganda from facebook conspiracy posts and youtube videos egging them on. I think I am a bit susceptible to conspiracy stuff myself but I still manage to maintain doubt. “Well it is not impossible that this might be true, but who the hell knows. Maybe this guy who is telling me this is full of shit.”
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That’s not mental health, it’s radicalisation, which can happen to anyone. Obviously it’s easier to influence someone who does have mental health issues, but it would be dangerous to assume that all those at Capitol Hill had mental health issues.
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I was just browsing Facebook myself, one woman I used to work with had really fallen down this rabbit hole. I’ve seen her post the odd anti-lockdown thing and while I disagree I’m open to people questioning stuff and it does affect her.
Called up her profile page and it is just like those NZ guys. She’s posted 22 times today a whole menu of Covid denial, anti-vax, Qanon, women shot at the Capitol is still alive/is Antifa, Biden lost, MSM is evil, a Muslim policemen is abusing kids and the government is covering it up. It’s a full lifestyle of opinions/conspiracies and it goes on and on and it’s all she’s posting, no family pics, not what was on TV or any normal stuff just a constant stream of this stuff.
There’s an irony that she’s calling out not to just believe everything in the mainstream media while believing everything she’s posting however far fetched. It is dangerous and I don’t know what we do about it.
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There’s an irony that she’s calling out not to just believe everything in the mainstream media while believing everything she’s posting however far fetched. It is dangerous and I don’t know what we do about it.
It’s really, really difficult. I think it is vitally important for those in their immediate surroundings not to give up on those people, but to keep engaging them.
Thinking about the next generations, we’re far too slow in schools to switching from old media learning – focusing on newspapers and the old internet – to this new world. Dealing with information on social media has to play a central role in education these days.
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There’s an irony that she’s calling out not to just believe everything in the mainstream media while believing everything she’s posting however far fetched. It is dangerous and I don’t know what we do about it.
I’d say it’s 90% down to algorithms. Once you click on one of these things, it’ll find you something similar. Hell, you don’t even have to click on the first thing half the time – these things have a way of propagating. It’s very easy to keep on clicking all the way down that rabbit-hole into an entire alt world.
Youtube is one of the worst for it – “like that movie trailer? Here’s some guy’s opinion about why that trailer sucked because it’s part of the George Soros-funded leftist baby-eating global conspiracy!!”
I’m sure nobody designed the algorithms to turn people into insurrectionists (okay maybe Mark Zuckerberg did) but it’s an unfortunate side-effect of the way they work, that less scrupulous people have taken advantage of.
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I’m sure nobody designed the algorithms to turn people into insurrectionists (okay maybe Mark Zuckerberg did) but it’s an unfortunate side-effect of the way they work, that less scrupulous people have taken advantage of.
And the other way around: Insurrection is a business. Just like with Trump who may just be doing all of this because it’s a big scam to line his pockets, we have no way of telling how many of the people who are producing these conspiracy myths are doing so only to generate clicks and thus earn money. In the traditional world of conspiracy radio, we can pretty safely say that Alex Jones is a scam artist too, but in the world of social media and algorithms, there aren’t even people and faces to match the ideas and it’s impossible to tell.
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That’s not mental health, it’s radicalisation, which can happen to anyone. Obviously it’s easier to influence someone who does have mental health issues, but it would be dangerous to assume that all those at Capitol Hill had mental health issues.
True – though in the US and increasingly around the world, I imagine the sense of paranoia has been normalized or “hypernormalized” so that the baseline mentality is ill with the majority of the population self-medicating or actually on anti-depressives or some other, more serious form of psychiatric drug. The culture of fear has been with us pretty much our entire lives – far longer than the Internet has – so being irrationally afraid is a normal response.
Armed protesters gather outside KY Capitol, rail against McConnell, Paul and Beshear (msn.com)
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There was an article I saw recently about far right/radicalized groups on Facebook that said something like 64% of people joined those groups after Facebook recommended the groups to them. So yeah, their algorithms are definitely a huge part of the problem. I believe this analysis was performed by Facebook themselves, so hopefully people there are starting to see that something needs to change. They’ve played a big role in creating this monster, whether they meant to or not.
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Garth Ennis weighs in on the use of the Punisher symbol by the fascist violence monopoly and far-right dickbags.
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e have no way of telling how many of the people who are producing these conspiracy myths are doing so only to generate clicks and thus earn money.
Yes, also I think scary things attract clicks. “Here’s 5 things you need to start doing right now to save your children!”
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LA Gun Stores See Spike In Business After Capitol Riot – CBS Los Angeles (cbslocal.com)
I think liberal, leftist and civil rights groups that even support strict gun control are going to seriously step up in firearm purchases after all the right wing gun-toting protests. If the government will not institute gun control then this is a predictable reaction.
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You know… It was Neil Tyson who blamed the failure of the education system for the prevalence of people who still believe the earth is flat. I believe he was onto something even more than that.
We have people who are, among other things, anti-maskers, covid-deniers, climate change deniers, totally anti science. On top of that, Holocaust deniers, moon landing deniers, and on and on. They do, however, go for the craziest of conspiracy theories, pseudo science, and things said off the top of the heads of influencers and enablers.
What is it that made them turn their backs on mainstream secular education? There are many answers and it is most likely d for all of the above?
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Oh…for a certain someone…. which country is a sh*thole country now?
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On a side note… Tik Tok used to have these girls twerking and dancing and other pop culture videos, but since last Wed., it all disappeared. Now everyone is going back and forth with opinions, liberals vs. conservatives, etc…
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Tik Tok used to have these girls twerking and dancing and other pop culture videos, but since last Wed., it all disappeared. Now everyone is going back and forth with opinions, liberals vs. conservatives, etc…
The true casualty of the near overthrow of democracy – fewer twerkers.
You have my sympathy, Al.
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Garth Ennis weighs in on the use of the Punisher symbol by the fascist violence monopoly and far-right dickbags.
I wish I had Garth Ennis’s confidence that the American flag can’t be construed as a fascist symbol! (Otherwise a very good statement.)
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Tik Tok used to have these girls twerking and dancing and other pop culture videos, but since last Wed., it all disappeared. Now everyone is going back and forth with opinions, liberals vs. conservatives, etc…
The true casualty of the near overthrow of democracy – fewer twerkers.
You have my sympathy, Al.
Then they came for the twerkers, and I did not speak out, because I was not a twerker.
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I guess we all know by now why Putin wanted (and allegedly orchestrated for) Trump to win in 2016…
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For all those who were fickle, wishy-washy, and outrightly refused to vote for Hilary…. What do they have to say now?
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Oh… Should we still respect the feelings of Trump supporters?
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Why, Trump, that is quite a sophisticated constituency you got there!
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I guess we all know by now why Putin wanted (and allegedly orchestrated for) Trump to win in 2016…
It’s a known fact Putin hates twerking.
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In the end, most of this can be summed up as the reactions of a society of White Americans who have been raised to believe that we are the chosen ones, the people for whom the United States of American was exclusively established, and who have, for 250 years, been the exclusive beneficiaries of preferential treatment in education, in business, in society, and in all aspects of life including where we work, where we own our homes, even where we sit in a restaurant. As other members of society begin to achieve some semblance of equality regardless of race, color, country of origin, religious belief, and sexual preference, we in the White Establishment see our position of superiority and privilege shrinking (or disappearing altogether); rather than seeing this as a leveling of the playing field, we instead see it as being deprived our our “deserved” status because the left-wing liberals want to take away our advantages in society, in the business world, etc. The mob that attacked the Capitol in Washington DC on Wednesday were trying to re-assert their position at the top of the pile as the dominant species, and to prevent the continuation of efforts (under Biden’s presidency, picking up where Obama left off) to increase equality among all members of society.
I’m sure there are many people who don’t agree with these statements; but in the end it comes down to the simple truth that, as a country, America is primarily and predominantly prejudiced against any segment of our nation that are not white, straight, Christian, and male-dominated.
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I guess we all know by now why Putin wanted (and allegedly orchestrated for) Trump to win in 2016…
It’s a known fact Putin hates twerking.
Maybe he just prefers twerking from home.
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‘Our President Wants Us Here’: The Mob That Stormed the Capitol
At this point, anybody who has heard a full report of what happened at the Capitol, and still says the election was stolen, should not have the 1st Amendment apply to them; the claim, at this point, reaches the level of “shouting fire in a crowded theater”.
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Just a quick note to say that the Pearls Before Swine strips that will run in newspapers from 1/18 – 1/22 are all about an attempted presidential coup. They were all created at least a month in advance of yesterday’s events and are not a commentary on them. pic.twitter.com/AkVWQT3vp8
— Stephan Pastis (@stephanpastis) January 7, 2021
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I’m sure there are many people who don’t agree with these statements; but in the end it comes down to the simple truth that, as a country, America is primarily and predominantly prejudiced against any segment of our nation that are not white, straight, Christian, and male-dominated.
And especially if they are poor.
“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket.” – Lyndon Johnson
If you look at things like tax lien foreclosures, municipal fines, police shootings, even though the percentage of minorities affected by these sorts of inequities are higher than the general population, the actual majority of people affected are poor whites – often in regions blighted by poverty and chronic unemployment. It’s not middle and upper class people of any race that are suffering the worst in this country, it is the poor of all races and the majority of those are white people who should have a political incentive to join with civil rights activists fighting these conditions and the unfair schemes that keep people poor and prevent opportunities for investment and education in their communities.
However, as Lyndon Johnson pointed out, they will support the people working to screw them over, like Trump, because they are the ones telling them that they are special and better than those other groups.
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the actual majority of people affected are poor whites – often in regions blighted by poverty and chronic unemployment.
Chris Hedges makes this point very strongly, about the “sacrifice zones” in the US. I am not sure how affluent the people engaged in the riot were, but I think quite a few poor white people vote Trump, because of their delusion he might help them. I think many of them from rust belt states that swung to Trump in 2016
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I am playing my tiniest violin.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RayRedacted/status/1348388601118273537
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If 5 people (and counting?) hadn’t died directly due to this, the mentality of these people would fit in with the world of a Will Ferrell comedy.
Particularly this one:
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I guess we all know by now why Putin wanted (and allegedly orchestrated for) Trump to win in 2016…
I think blaming all this on Putin is actually very dangerous. I mean, he did clearly interfere in the 2016 election, and Trump is absolutely in his pocket, but the idea that all of this is because of Putin’s interference rather than him taking advantage of social issues that already existed. If USians don’t take a long, hard look at their behaviour and correct things, this will keep happening.
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What happened? What made them change their minds? Inquiring minds want to know.
What is there to inquire? It’s called opportunism, or politics in a nutshell.
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Maybe Kevin can become pen-pals with the rioters when they are in prison. That would be nice, dontcha think? I mean, it’s not like he’ll be busy with an acting gig anytime in the near future.
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‘Vintage white rage’: Why the riots were about the perceived loss of white power
A far-right, pro-Trump mob stormed the U.S. Capitol with Confederate flags and weapons in an attempt to stop members of Congress from counting Electoral College votes on Wednesday. Senators and representatives ran for cover, remaining on lockdown until the extremists left.
The response by both law enforcement and political leaders is still being parsed out, but activists and scholars say there is a deeper, underlying issue that must be considered: Violent expressions of white power are the norm when white anger and resentment rooted in racism exists.
“What we’re seeing is vintage white rage,” says Carol Anderson, an Emory University professor and the author of “White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide.”
In “White Rage,” Anderson highlights the ways that white violence is carried out subtly through legislation and oppressive policies. And others say Wednesday’s display is a clear picture of how common visible white violence is in the face of the social advancement of nonwhite people.
“It’s entirely about the perceived loss of the power of whiteness,” said Bree Newsome Bass, the human rights activists known for taking down a Confederate flag at the South Carolina Statehouse in 2015. “People feel like they are losing something if whiteness no longer carries privilege and power. If there’s racial equality, they feel like they have been denied what the country was supposed to be.”
“Part of why Trump inspires this cult-like loyalty is because he embodies that grievance,” Newsome Bass added. “When he says ‘I have been robbed,’ he is speaking for the white supremacist cause. When there’s a perception that the power of whiteness is being lost, the act of violence is what reinforces and reassures it.”
The rioters had been urged by the president to march to the Capitol to share their disapproval and “fight much harder,” as he falsely proclaimed that the presidency was being taken from him. Soon after, rally attendees climbed the Capitol building and broke in, vandalizing offices and forcing members of Congress, of the media, staff and others into hiding.
“The lie of voter fraud says that ‘we are being victimized by those people in the city who are trying to steal our democracy,’” Anderson said. “When they’re storming Congress, they’re seeing themselves as the victim because that’s the narrative that’s been crafted for them.”
The riot followed weeks of other actions by far-right Trump supporters after Joe Biden was declared the winner of the election over Trump. In December, the Proud Boys, a far-right, all-male self-described group of “Western chauvinists,” vandalized churches in D.C. during a pro-Trump rally. The Lawyer’s Committee for Civil Rights Under Law has since filed a lawsuit against the group on behalf of the vandalized Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church.
But activists and leaders say the current far-right chaos has been brewing for years. Experts have cited Barack Obama’s historic presidency as a major moment in igniting the mainstreaming of white nationalism. But Anderson said the current rise can be traced back even further to George W. Bush’s administration.
“Some policies of voter suppression are based on the lie of voter fraud. This is the mess they started ginning up after the 2000 election. And we saw Trump take hold of this,” Anderson says.
Bass added: “Whiteness is a political power dynamic. Events like yesterday serve to remind everyone of the rules of race. I’m part of a chorus of people who have been sounding the alarm for a while now. It even goes back to the Bush administration. There is a long-standing history of ritual violence that reinforces the racial dynamic.”
Now, as the nation is left reeling from the chaos, many say a test for the nation’s leaders will be how they respond and talk about the insurrection.
“Over time we will see these people humanized and described in a way that takes away from the fact that this is such a historic, violent moment in the U.S. Capitol that hasn’t happened in any of our lifetimes,” said Dana White, a D.C.-area speaker and facilitator on race and LGBTQ issues. “I think a lot of the emphasis will be placed on Trump inciting this overzealous behavior in people.”
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No, Peanut. They are not Patriots. They are your flying monkeys,homegrown terrorists, QAnon actors. They are the douchebags that go out and do the evil bidding of people like you who like to wind them up like toys and let them do their worst. #keepingYourFilthyHandsclean #enabler
— Lucy Lawless (@RealLucyLawless) January 7, 2021
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Xena slams Hercules: Lucy Lawless calls out former costar Kevin Sorbo over Antifa conspiracy theory
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It is strange to target Parler. I had read that the leaders of the raid on the capitol used social media to organize the rush, but did they use Parler specifically? Or is it likely the other tech giants are looking for a scapegoat to avoid culpability and attention?
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Kevin Sorbo is such a spineless c**t. He was asked about his Twitter in an interview recently, and he said his teenage son runs his account and that he “hardly pays any attention to it.”
Jesus dude, at least own your bullshit.
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It is strange to target Parler. I had read that the leaders of the raid on the capitol used social media to organize the rush, but did they use Parler specifically? Or is it likely the other tech giants are looking for a scapegoat to avoid culpability and attention?
It was all over the place, but Parler is the one that is specifically Twitter for people who were banned from the site for being reactionaries, so it’s the easiest one to purge
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Chris Hedges makes this point very strongly, about the “sacrifice zones” in the US. I am not sure how affluent the people engaged in the riot were, but I think quite a few poor white people vote Trump, because of their delusion he might help them.
Yup and quite frankly it’s a problem ‘the left’ have failed to address which also contributes to this. They try and paper over the cracks of poverty with welfare payments rather than any permanent fix. The ‘back to the 1950s’ nostalgia does involve racism as part of it but I think primarily it’s that people had blue collar jobs they could work at 9-5 and earn a good living that paid for a house and car. There’s never really any plan since the 1980s starting killing off certain industries on how to replace that.
A lot of liberals are confused why people seem to be voting against their interests but they don’t really understand these people and therefore don’t address the key needs of those people, which are decent jobs. The right also don’t present any solutions but pretend they do which is why Trump’s claims to being back those jobs resonated in the rust belt in 2016 and failed in 2020 because none of it was delivered.
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I think it’s important that this is the other driving factor. Yes, one part is the loss of white privilege. But the other is the alienation that comes with the expansion of neo-liberal capitalism and that alienation is happening on every level of the economic and political system. And the thing is that the middle-of-the-road Democratic approach we are seeing right now is actually doing comparatively well with the first issue, but has decided not to deal with the second. And if they stick to that, it’ll drive people back into Republican hands and the next populist.
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You have to love Schwarzenegger these days. He speaks some very clear words to the Republican traitors.
But most importantly, look at how from 05:13 he uses Conan’s sword as a symbol for American democracy. That makes this the most awesome political speech ever, obviously.4 users thanked author for this post.
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And the thing is that the middle-of-the-road Democratic approach we are seeing right now is actually doing comparatively well with the first issue, but has decided not to deal with the second.
Yes and let’s not beat around the bush, the solution to the second one is much harder. Reversing the drift of manufacturing jobs to Asia is fraught with difficulties and a lot of those roles have been automated far more. So even the strong anti-capitalism guys further left tend to have 1970s solutions we can’t really go back to.
What they should do is target the areas left behind and come up with ways to return jobs there. For example in the UK now they are investing heavily in wind, the wind farms are often located right off deprived areas like the north east and west Wales but there’s no real strategy to bring those new tech jobs to the areas that desperately need them. That will win you support in a way welfare never will because welfare saves you from poverty but you are still poor and your town is still a crappy shadow of what it was 40 years ago.
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What they should do is target the areas left behind and come up with ways to return jobs there. For example in the UK now they are investing heavily in wind, the wind farms are often located right off deprived areas like the north east and west Wales but there’s no real strategy to bring those new tech jobs to the areas that desperately need them. That will win you support in a way welfare never will because welfare saves you from poverty but you are still poor and your town is still a crappy shadow of what it was 40 years ago.
Yep, absolutely. Where they actually can go back to the 70s is in reversing de-regulation and raising taxes. Creating new jobs needs money.
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It’s worth remembering that the Republicans support is mostly from middle-class and rich people, not the working class, even under Trump. While I’m sure a lot of the people who were in DC the other day weren’t that well-off, the demographic represented is largely people above the median income and unlikely to be college educated. The poor in America are disproportionally black and/or LGBT, which tends to get forgotten in breathless thinkpieces trying to explain why Clinton lost the Rust Belt.
Which isn’t to say the Neoliberal capitalism isn’t alienating or causing the erosion of the middle class, but it hasn’t lead to a groundswell of support for Trump.
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Which isn’t to say the Neoliberal capitalism isn’t alienating or causing the erosion of the middle class, but it hasn’t lead to a groundswell of support for Trump.
Well, it didn’t need to be a groundswell, it just needed to be enough to throw the balance of the two parties out of whack. Rich people are always going to mostly vote for the party that makes sure they don’t have to pay taxes and the oil keeps flowing.
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Word to the wise: Don’t look at the Tik Tok feed or else you might find yourself aimlessly scrolling for an hour or two.
So that’s what the kids call it these days?
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Which isn’t to say the Neoliberal capitalism isn’t alienating or causing the erosion of the middle class, but it hasn’t lead to a groundswell of support for Trump.
Well, it didn’t need to be a groundswell, it just needed to be enough to throw the balance of the two parties out of whack. Rich people are always going to mostly vote for the party that makes sure they don’t have to pay taxes and the oil keeps flowing.
My feeling is that it depressed the Democrat vote in 2016 rather than strengthened the Republican one, but that’s based on total number rather than checking the swing states. A lot of progressives were very upset with Obama by the end of his administration and Clinton was seen as a continuation of his policies.
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On a separate note, Parler’s admins stopped caring as the site was shutting down, and one of the founders basically listed the security services they used in an interview he gave. So hackers were able to use these two things to create thousands of admin accounts and have backed up a massive amount of the site’s data. Turns out they didn’t strip metadata from photos or actually delete messages that the owners tried to scrub. And it’s all being published online.
EDIT: And I forgot to add, in case ye don’t know. Parler was asking for a lot of personal information in order to verify accounts. Like government-issued ID numbers and stuff…
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And it’s all being published online.
That should be fun for anyone who enjoys swimming in sewage.
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And it’s all being published online.
That should be fun for anyone who enjoys swimming in sewage.
Apparently a bunch of people started deleting messages off there where the topic was going to DC and being violent on the 6th, and now it’s basically the “are you taking notes in a criminal fucking conspiracy?” bit from The Wire.
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I’m convinced a large part of the problem is many, if not all politicians, have never found it difficult to get jobs, thus they don’t understand how a person may not get one and that it isn’t always for lack of trying.
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Biden doesn’t use the power he now has to actually make a change for the better, he will lose the progressives entirely and then the Dems are out again for not having any balls, as is usually how it goes with them.
Glenn Greenwald relentlessly bashes Biden for being tougher on crime than most Republicans and playing a big part in going to war in Iraq so I think his balls are in the other pantleg.
The democrats need to fix social security, invest in poor communities, get people affordable healthcare and housing. I doubt that is going to happen. But we’ll see.
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You have to love Schwarzenegger these days. He speaks some very clear words to the Republican traitors.
But most importantly, look at how from 05:13 he uses Conan’s sword as a symbol for American democracy. That makes this the most awesome political speech ever, obviously.I disagree with Schwarzenegger in that this was like Kristallnacht. Hitler was already in total control then, so it’s a bit wrong to compare it. Actually, if his father wasn’t who he was, I’d find it offensive, but given that fact, I’m giving Schwarzenegger a pass.
I do agree that sycophancy was a major part. It’s more that even if POTUS is of your party you shouldn’t be a sycophant. Never be a sycophant. The reason why I thought that all the senators who ran against Trump in the primaries wouldn’t be wasn’t just that he abused them. It was also that some Democratic Congresspeople were called accused of sycophancy for Obama by the GOP in early 2015, and it was for an issue still on the GOP’s mind during the generals, and would be when Trump took power. Of course Cruz, say, wouldn’t be an ass-licker after all that. Same for Rubio. And I knew that the GOP would have a narrow control over the Senate, if they got control in 2016, so I felt confident there’d be a check on Trump. That’s why I voted for him in 2016- there would be checks on him, there’d be dissenters in the GOP (then momentum took over and I forgot about that, even when it was clear it wasn’t happening. If I hadn’t thought Trump’s bad side could be controlled by some dissenters in the Republicans, I would not have voted for anybody for POTUS in that election, and momentum couldn’t have taken over, and I would have voted Biden in 2020.
But it’s also that Republicans thought and said terrible things about Obama that led to this. It wasn’t just Birthers or “Secret Muslimers” or any race-related conspiracies or conspiracies in general. A lot of Republican voters thought Obama was another Carter, and the only reason he got a second term was because, unlike Carter, Obama sycophants “controlled the media”, so the public was blinded, but when history looks back, Obama and Carter would be spoken of in the same breath. What does this have to do with Trump? Think about it- I couldn’t take Democratic criticism of Trump as serious as I should have if I hadn’t been able to say “They’re just copying our attitude towards Obama”. And, IMO, I believe a lot of other GOP voters thought along those lines.
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Sent by a friend
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t’s worth remembering that the Republicans support is mostly from middle-class and rich people, not the working class, even under Trump. While I’m sure a lot of the people who were in DC the other day weren’t that well-off, the demographic represented is largely people above the median income and unlikely to be college educated.
This is very true but it also must be remembered that the post industrial group are basically what decides elections. Trump’s 2016 win was decided by the rust belt (as was Biden’s in 2020, without Michigan, Penn and Wisconsin he’s not making it and they were states won by fine margins) and Boris Johnson’s majority in 2019 was bolstered by the ‘red wall’ seats. If Biden can’t help their situation beyond welfare it may well switch back again next time.
The left really needs to draw up plans to address this problem, I come from one of these towns and they’ve voted Labour for 40 years at every level, and has a Labour government in Cardiff and in London for 13 years and I can’t argue every year of that since I was a kid has been a story of decline. It’s a shithole, one I love for the people, but the high street is empty or full of bookies or kebab shops and Labour or Tory at Westminster that decline has been pretty c0nstant.
When they say ‘we vote Labour and nothing changes’ it’s hard to argue and I don’t think it’s all the right/left wing of the parties, I saw nothing proposed from Corbyn to tackle it as a priority and I see nothing from Starmer and saw nothing from Blair or Brown or Milliband. There is no strategy and it’s a disgrace they can’t see what’s in front of their faces, don’t offer welfare or tax credits or housing benefit – offer a plan for decently paid jobs because that is what they had and want back.
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I’m not seeing the problem with invoking Krystallnacht, can you explain it a bit more?
I do get that. The Reichkristallnacht was the climax of a progrom in which hundreds of Jews were killed and thousands arrested and taken to concentration camps. It doesn’t exactly show respect towards the victims of one of the worst progroms in history to equate it with a couple dozen dickheads smashing shit in the Capitol.
Glenn Greenwald relentlessly bashes Biden for being tougher on crime than most Republicans and playing a big part in going to war in Iraq so I think his balls are in the other pantleg.
Yeah, sure. It’s why the party bigwigs made sure he’s elected and not Sanders or Warren. Still, one can hope he recognises the signs of the times at least somewhat.
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It’s worth remembering that the Republicans support is mostly from middle-class and rich people, not the working class, even under Trump. While I’m sure a lot of the people who were in DC the other day weren’t that well-off, the demographic represented is largely people above the median income and unlikely to be college educated. The poor in America are disproportionally black and/or LGBT, which tends to get forgotten in breathless thinkpieces trying to explain why Clinton lost the Rust Belt.
Which isn’t to say the Neoliberal capitalism isn’t alienating or causing the erosion of the middle class, but it hasn’t lead to a groundswell of support for Trump.
Yeah I’ve read analysis that his base is predominantly white middle management & small business owner types. But even so Dems can still strip away some of his poorer voters–specifically Obama-to-Trump voters for whom race isn’t the deciding factor–by addressing class: creating new jobs via a Green New Deal, passing M4A, etc. And doing this would mean they wouldn’t have to get more racist to appeal to the right-wing, which is what centrists and liberals accuse the progressive left of whenever we bring up class. Sadly Biden has been signalling he’ll go for the austerity approach which helps no one.
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You realize Todd by agreeing with Gun Control you may be asked to leave Texas.
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This is very true but it also must be remembered that the post industrial group are basically what decides elections. Trump’s 2016 win was decided by the rust belt (as was Biden’s in 2020, without Michigan, Penn and Wisconsin he’s not making it and they were states won by fine margins) and Boris Johnson’s majority in 2019 was bolstered by the ‘red wall’ seats. If Biden can’t help their situation beyond welfare it may well switch back again next time.
Yeah, I agree with everything you said here, it’s more I think that neoliberal policies have reduced the nominal left-wing parties’ voter base rather than bolstered the right-wing one.
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You realize Todd by agreeing with Gun Control you may be asked to leave Texas.
As a gun owner, I strongly believe in gun control. Most surveys I’ve seen most gun owners feel the same way.
The right wing NRA nut jobs are the one screaming against it.
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The right wing NRA nut jobs
That’s redundant.
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The right wing NRA nut jobs
That’s redundant.
Repeated for emphasis.
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Yeah I’ve read analysis that his base is predominantly white middle management & small business owner types. But even so Dems can still strip away some of his poorer voters–specifically Obama-to-Trump voters for whom race isn’t the deciding factor–by addressing class: creating new jobs via a Green New Deal, passing M4A, etc. And doing this would mean they wouldn’t have to get more racist to appeal to the right-wing, which is what centrists and liberals accuse the progressive left of whenever we bring up class. Sadly Biden has been signalling he’ll go for the austerity approach which helps no one.
Still, it’s not like the Democrats don’t depend on middle-class, upper class and extremely rich voters and donors as well (especially in High Tech, Finance and Big Banks). The actual voting participation of low income working class and the poor is very low and these people are certainly not contributing to campaigns in any significant way either.
Even though minorities and immigrants make up a disproportionate amount of those in low-income and poverty brackets, the actual numbers (and potential votes, as a result) of poor and low income working class Americans is overwhelmingly white. It’s about twice the actual number of poor blacks and almost equal to all other poor minority members combined. So, motivating votes in this group would have a serious impact if they went for any particular party on the whole and currently, it doesn’t look like they will go for Democrat or Progressive, though they should.
What turns off many of these poor whites, obviously, is that social justice often focuses on being for black, immigrant, native or minority rights. However, historically, poor whites suffered due to slavery, segregation and voting exclusion as well. Poor whites also suffered from labor abuses and targeted disenfranchisement, predatory financial practices and exploitation from the 1800’s to today. So, when people bring up white privilege to these citizens whose families have been poor going back to their great, great grandparents, obviously, they are not going be swayed by that argument. Especially if they have members of their families who made up the majority of the Labor movement. While, conversely, arguments of White Supremacy have swayed them to their own detriment.
So, just like during the hottest times of the labor movement, progressives do have an opportunity to promote their policies as a benefit to all poor people because, as we’ve seen through history, any advance to support all of the poor irrespective of race, origin or ethnicity leads to improvements in the standard of living of a disproportionate amount of minorities as well. Also, it leads to improved voting turnout from the poor for the people who can get these programs off the ground.
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As a gun owner, I strongly believe in gun control. Most surveys I’ve seen most gun owners feel the same way.
True – if there is no practical outlook for any gun control getting enacted, it is an incentive for people to own guns even if they want gun control.
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The Reichkristallnacht was the climax of a progrom in which hundreds of Jews were killed and thousands arrested and taken to concentration camps. It doesn’t exactly show respect towards the victims of one of the worst progroms in history to equate it with a couple dozen dickheads smashing shit in the Capitol.
Ah, now I get it, scale and hyperbole.
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Yeah I’ve read analysis that his base is predominantly white middle management & small business owner types. But even so Dems can still strip away some of his poorer voters–specifically Obama-to-Trump voters for whom race isn’t the deciding factor–by addressing class: creating new jobs via a Green New Deal, passing M4A, etc. And doing this would mean they wouldn’t have to get more racist to appeal to the right-wing, which is what centrists and liberals accuse the progressive left of whenever we bring up class. Sadly Biden has been signalling he’ll go for the austerity approach which helps no one.
Still, it’s not like the Democrats don’t depend on middle-class, upper class and extremely rich voters and donors as well (especially in High Tech, Finance and Big Banks). The actual voting participation of low income working class and the poor is very low and these people are certainly not contributing to campaigns in any significant way either.
Even though minorities and immigrants make up a disproportionate amount of those in low-income and poverty brackets, the actual numbers (and potential votes, as a result) of poor and low income working class Americans is overwhelmingly white. It’s about twice the actual number of poor blacks and almost equal to all other poor minority members combined. So, motivating votes in this group would have a serious impact if they went for any particular party on the whole and currently, it doesn’t look like they will go for Democrat or Progressive, though they should.
What turns off many of these poor whites, obviously, is that social justice often focuses on being for black, immigrant, native or minority rights. However, historically, poor whites suffered due to slavery, segregation and voting exclusion as well. Poor whites also suffered from labor abuses and targeted disenfranchisement, predatory financial practices and exploitation from the 1800’s to today. So, when people bring up white privilege to these citizens whose families have been poor going back to their great, great grandparents, obviously, they are not going be swayed by that argument. Especially if they have members of their families who made up the majority of the Labor movement. While, conversely, arguments of White Supremacy have swayed them to their own detriment.
So, just like during the hottest times of the labor movement, progressives do have an opportunity to promote their policies as a benefit to all poor people because, as we’ve seen through history, any advance to support all of the poor irrespective of race, origin or ethnicity leads to improvements in the standard of living of a disproportionate amount of minorities as well. Also, it leads to improved voting turnout from the poor for the people who can get these programs off the ground.
These are good points but unfortunately the stakes are just too high for people of color for the left to go race neutral in their messaging. They have to strike the right balance between race and class but can’t sacrifice one for the other.
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I don’t envy the position Biden is in. The left, rightfully, now expects bug things from his administration. Unfortunately, most meaningful legislation still requires 60 votes in the Senate. They could get rid of the fillibuster, in theory, but that would require all 50 Dems to vote in favor. That almost certainly won’t happen. So Biden can fill his cabinet, he can fill court vacancies, he can overturn Trump EOs with his own, but everything else is basically off the table unless they can get guys like Joe Manchin to grow a pair and remove the fillibuster. The plus side for Biden is he’s not going to be worried about his own reelection. And they can still force votes to let the American people actually see the GOP vote down bills instead of hiding behind their daddy, Mitch.
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These are good points but unfortunately the stakes are just too high for people of color for the left to go race neutral in their messaging. They have to strike the right balance between race and class but can’t sacrifice one for the other.
However, the danger is that making arguments that are proposing that huge populations of whites suffering chronic unemployment, poverty, crime and an addiction epidemic are somehow enjoying white privilege will motivate them to vote against any democrat or progressive thus overwhelming any gains made in motivating minority support. Especially when the arguments pointing out they are suffering exactly the same problems that we’re trying to actually solve is much more persuasive.
Rather than race neutral, it’s more about demonstrating solidarity in that the same conditions they are facing in their lives are for the same reasons and due to the same conservative policies that minorities face as well. Also, we have to acknowledge that the policies often have bipartisan support – they aren’t simply Republican.
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These are good points but unfortunately the stakes are just too high for people of color for the left to go race neutral in their messaging. They have to strike the right balance between race and class but can’t sacrifice one for the other.
However, the danger is that making arguments that are proposing that huge populations of whites suffering chronic unemployment, poverty, crime and an addiction epidemic are somehow enjoying white privilege will motivate them to vote against any democrat or progressive thus overwhelming any gains made in motivating minority support. Especially when the arguments pointing out they are suffering exactly the same problems that we’re trying to actually solve is much more persuasive.
Rather than race neutral, it’s more about demonstrating solidarity in that the same conditions they are facing in their lives are for the same reasons and due to the same conservative policies that minorities face as well. Also, we have to acknowledge that the policies often have bipartisan support – they aren’t simply Republican.
Good points, I agree with all that.
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Well there will be a chance (globally) to change things in the post-pandemic period for certain. But then again that would require the leaders and lawmakers to have balls, and let’s be honest… they don’t. So instead of re-thinking this idiotic ultra-globalist approach to the economy, we’ll just go straight back into it and probably with a vengeance, until the next catastrophe arises, rinse and repeat, until it ceases to profit the people with actual power.
So, in terms of social discourse, sure it’s nice to not have an unhinged egomaniacal opportunist as a president anymore, but in terms of economy, it doesn’t matter.
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Conversely, since a lot of pundits are predicting a serious recession, it probably means that the wealthiest people are setting us up to cash in on it like they did in the recession, the depression, World Wars 1 & 2, and so on back to Ramses, probably.
At this point, it is probably the best time to really call for serious financial and tax reform and force transparency in the financial industry on the whole since that is usually where the siphon begins. Primarily, we all should probably would have more motivation to choke the Capitol Streets protesting for debt relief and replacing predatory lenders with government grant agencies and national credit unions for the low income and poor communities.
It reminds me of this terrible old saying I hear on occasion – that ironically many people using it get wrong – that goes “give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and they eat for a lifetime.” Never say that, and never take anyone seriously who uses it.
First, there is no reason you can’t do both! If you’re gonna teach anybody to fish, it’s gonna take a while and they need some equipment as well that you’re gonna have to at loan them. And you’re gonna have to give them some of the fish you catch while teaching them, because a starving person is not gonna learn shit.
Second, the people who say that get their fish down at the market. They don’t catch them.
Third, if you ask them, “okay, assuming that is true, who the hell is teaching them to fish? Are you teaching them to fish? Fine, if you want ’em to learn to fish, it’s gonna take a helluva lot more time teaching them, than just giving them the friggin’ fish!”
Finally, no they can’t eat for a lifetime! Because all the fishing holes are either on private property or require a license or permit or some kind of membership fee to get to. And, even those the man can get to only allow fishing during a limited season with limits to the number of fish you can catch.
So, when people say “give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and they eat for a lifetime” what they really mean is “let ’em starve to death.”
That’s the way it always plays out. They want to help people, but we can’t give them “handouts” like a person with a $30,000 a year job and $300,000 in student loans is asking for a handout.
Because really, we shouldn’t be trying to teach a man to fish. We should be feeding these people today, so their children can have the space and energy to learn to fish.
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Conversely, since a lot of pundits are predicting a serious recession, it probably means that the wealthiest people are setting us up to cash in on it like they did in the recession, the depression, World Wars 1 & 2, and so on back to Ramses, probably.
At this point, it is probably the best time to really call for serious financial and tax reform and force transparency in the financial industry on the whole since that is usually where the siphon begins. Primarily, we all should probably would have more motivation to choke the Capitol Streets protesting for debt relief and replacing predatory lenders with government grant agencies and national credit unions for the low income and poor communities.
It reminds me of this terrible old saying I hear on occasion – that ironically many people using it get wrong – that goes “give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and they eat for a lifetime.” Never say that, and never take anyone seriously who uses it.
First, there is no reason you can’t do both! If you’re gonna teach anybody to fish, it’s gonna take a while and they need some equipment as well that you’re gonna have to at loan them. And you’re gonna have to give them some of the fish you catch while teaching them, because a starving person is not gonna learn shit.
Second, the people who say that get their fish down at the market. They don’t catch them.
Third, if you ask them, “okay, assuming that is true, who the hell is teaching them to fish? Are you teaching them to fish? Fine, if you want ’em to learn to fish, it’s gonna take a helluva lot more time teaching them, than just giving them the friggin’ fish!”
Finally, no they can’t eat for a lifetime! Because all the fishing holes are either on private property or require a license or permit or some kind of membership fee to get to. And, even those the man can get to only allow fishing during a limited season with limits to the number of fish you can catch.
So, when people say “give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and they eat for a lifetime” what they really mean is “let ’em starve to death.”
That’s the way it always plays out. They want to help people, but we can’t give them “handouts” like a person with a $30,000 a year job and $300,000 in student loans is asking for a handout.
Because really, we shouldn’t be trying to teach a man to fish. We should be feeding these people today, so their children can have the space and energy to learn to fish.
There is a pretty obvious solution.
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Yes, but to invoke Avon from Blake’s 7:
Listen to me. Wealth is the only reality. And the only way to obtain wealth is to take it away from somebody else. Wake up, Blake!
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