Politics and in-fighting. Which I guess is just politics. Or infighting

Topic

I’m not sure any of the democratic candidates really would want the job after the effects of the pandemic. The DNC can select anyone it likes, right? Maybe Elizabeth Warren will end up the surprise pick.

Replies

Dave wrote:

I feel as though this is a little disingenuous. Some of these things have been the subject of complaints in the past, often heated ones, and now changes are being made in line with what has been called for.

Saying that these things are small and meaningless and intended as a distraction after people have spent years asking for them to change feels a little inconsistent.

I think it’s fine to make the point that there are bigger fish to fry, but I’m not sure that should mean that these small changes aren’t worth something too.

The problem is that nobody listened when people politely asked to cut out the blackface or maybe have black actors play black characters in animation, and offering this in face of giant mass protest over police brutality and murders really feels like an attempt at mild appeasement

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Hank Cannon, Dave

lorcan_nagle wrote:

The problem is that nobody listened when people politely asked to cut out the blackface or maybe have black actors play black characters in animation, and offering this in face of giant mass protest over police brutality and murders really feels like an attempt at mild appeasement

In the case of the Simpsons I thought the Apu controversy had already encouraged them to move away from that before the recent protests, although I could be wrong. And certainly blackface hasn’t suddenly become unacceptable within just the past few weeks.

But I guess that off the back of the recent protests there has been added momentum to some of the existing complaints that has led to the current wave of more sweeping action to address it all.

I don’t know, it just feels like a dishonest argument to turn these victories into evidence that they’re being offered instead of more substantial change, rather than as a precursor to it.

I understand the argument, but for me it comes down to: should these things have happened or not?

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Hank Cannon, Christian

Dave wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

The problem is that nobody listened when people politely asked to cut out the blackface or maybe have black actors play black characters in animation, and offering this in face of giant mass protest over police brutality and murders really feels like an attempt at mild appeasement

In the case of the Simpsons I thought the Apu controversy had already encouraged them to move away from that before the recent protests, although I could be wrong. And certainly blackface hasn’t suddenly become unacceptable within just the past few weeks.

But I guess that off the back of the recent protests there has been added momentum to some of the existing complaints that has led to the current wave of more sweeping action to address it all.

I don’t know, it just feels like a dishonest argument to turn these victories into evidence that they’re being offered instead of more substantial change, rather than as a precursor to it.

I understand the argument, but for me it comes down to: should these things have happened or not?

For me it’s the timing, and like, I’ve seen this before with other activist activities – the establishment will always offer the bare minimum to try and placate people and try and bleed off supporters who see this as a victory and it’s OK to stop getting out on the streets.

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Hank Cannon, Dave

Some I’d agree with have been asked for in the past, some are semi-ridiculous like the Master bedroom and the Golden Girls episode where they have face masks on.

I don’t believe there’s any great conspiracy but I do see a lot of people of colour speaking out that these are moves have taken the centre of discussions when none of it was asked for in the BLM protests. Whether intentional or not it has distracted away from the heart of their argument, which is police reform.

First of all, they were in mud masks not blackface. And second of all, in what world does "Stop killing us." sound like "Please remove episodes of Golden Girls"? I didn't see that ask on anyone's protest sign… https://t.co/cgEcGdD60o

— erica williams simon (@missewill) June 28, 2020

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Hank Cannon, lorcan_nagle

I guess the counter argument is that the moves that are simple and easy to make are always going to come quicker than sweeping reforms which require social and legal upheaval.

Take something like gay marriage. The fact that media depictions of gay relationships switched to be more favourable (and old stereotypes and homophobic jokes were retired) far earlier than gay marriage was allowed didn’t mean it was a minor concession that was thrown to the gay community so that more meaningful action didn’t have to be taken, it was a step along the road to that greater legal and societal change.

The Malcolm X argument is one that relies on the idea that the civil rights movement will never lead to any meaningful change, and that’s something I don’t believe and I don’t think is supported by history.

(Does more need to change? Absolutely. But I don’t think we should be defeatist at the moment where it feels like there could be more potential than ever for further meaningful change.)

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Hank Cannon

Dave wrote:

The Malcolm X argument is one that relies on the idea that the civil rights movement will never lead to any meaningful change, and that’s something I don’t believe and I don’t think is supported by history.

Malcolm X’s argument isn’t that you can’t get meaningful change, it’s that you don’t accept the crumbs from the table and you keep on going

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Hank Cannon, Dave

Which I agree with, but that meme seemed to position the statement as a rebuttal of those changes as being questionable and having been deployed as distractions, rather than being welcome first steps but not going nearly far enough.

Maybe I’m overanalysing it – memes aren’t meant for this kind of nuance after all. But it’s the kind of thing that I think might on balance end up muddying that message rather than boosting it.

Dave wrote:

Which I agree with, but that meme seemed to position the statement as a rebuttal of those changes as being questionable and having been deployed as distractions, rather than being welcome first steps but not going nearly far enough.

Maybe I’m overanalysing it – memes aren’t meant for this kind of nuance after all. But it’s the kind of thing that I think might on balance end up muddying that message rather than boosting it.

As always, it can be two things – like they are welcome changes sure, but at the same time, it’s pretty coincidental that changes that people have been campaigning for for years got ignored or implemented at a glacial pace suddenly get changed overnight right when the same people are demanding bigger change.

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Hank Cannon, Dave

Well, I think it’s a moment of major cultural impact where there’s going to be added momentum for that kind of thing. I don’t disagree that it shows how much they dragged their heels in the past when they could have done it a lot sooner.

In general I think there’s  desire on the part of corporations to be seen to be doing the right thing at the moment in the wake of the BLM demonstrations. But even if the cynical argument says they’re doing it for the wrong reasons, at least they’re still doing the right thing.

But yeah, who knows whether bigger and more meaningful change is on the horizon without a crystal ball. Hopefully we’ll look back and see these more trivial changes as early indicators of more substantial change to come, rather than cynical attempts to appease the movement with scraps.

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Andy

lorcan_nagle wrote:

As always, it can be two things – like they are welcome changes sure, but at the same time, it’s pretty coincidental that changes that people have been campaigning for for years got ignored or implemented at a glacial pace suddenly get changed overnight right when the same people are demanding bigger change.

And it can be two things in this, as well: You can keep fighting for more meaningful changes while being glad for the small victories, surely. Doesn’t mean you have to go “Oh, cool, that’s that then” and pack up your signs and go home because Apu isn’t voiced by Hank Azaria anymore.

Random sidenote: I’ve been watching the Simpsons in German – because certain people in the household are forcing me to – so I won’t even notice any difference…

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Dave

Christian wrote:

And it can be two things in this, as well: You can keep fighting for more meaningful changes while being glad for the small victories, surely. Doesn’t mean you have to go “Oh, cool, that’s that then” and pack up your signs and go home because Apu isn’t voiced by Hank Azaria anymore.

Well yeah, that’s implicit too

Random sidenote: I’ve been watching the Simpsons in German – because certain people in the household are forcing me to – so I won’t even notice any difference…

How do they treat Uter?

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Andy, Dave

Dave wrote:

Hopefully we’ll look back and see these more trivial changes as early indicators of more substantial change to come, rather than cynical attempts to appease the movement with scraps.

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Will_C, lorcan_nagle, Todd

lorcan_nagle wrote:

How do they treat Uter?

I used to watch the Simpsons dubbed in France (to be fair the voices were pretty good in terms of similarity to the originals), and I remember them commendably keeping the line “I’m as dirty as a Frenchman” intact.

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lorcan_nagle

Dave wrote:

In general I think there’s  desire on the part of corporations to be seen to be doing the right thing at the moment in the wake of the BLM demonstrations.

I think so too. People have been asked to do more to help and change things, how to be an active ally rather than just sit back and not be racist, and I think this is one way they think they can. I don’t believe that Hulu are in with the far right groups planning a distraction.

However I can also see the distraction that especially the more trivial are inadvertently creating. I see people I know that aren’t far right at all asking ‘oh god what are the banning now’ at the likes of the Golden Girls. I can see that people of colour would rather Hulu put out a statement of new policies for greater representation in creative and board positions.

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Hank Cannon, lorcan_nagle, Dave

Yeah that’s fair. It becomes noise and it’s at such a trivial level that it potentially trivialises the entire movement by association.

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garjones

I give even odds on the Golden Girls one being some well-meaning but ultimately clueless making a decision and a deliberate attempt to make the BLM movement seem silly by “demanding” the episode be removed.

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DavidM, Hank Cannon, garjones

I guess the way I see this stuff with Hollywood trying to (finally) eliminate blackface and (finally) becoming more inclusive with animated characters of color is that these entertainment companies aren’t the ones with the power to make meaningful change in police systems so at least they’re trying something? That’s not to say that anyone should accept this and only this as the result of the protests and the deaths of far too many black Americans at the hands of police. People need to keep fighting. This is the least Hollywood can do (and in some cases appears more knee-jerk than anything else). It certainly doesn’t mean people should stop putting pressure on the politicians to make real, systemic changes.

I get the argument that it could trivialize the movement, so hopefully people ignore the noise and keep fighting.

[Martin Smith]

Dave wrote:

Martin Smith wrote:

Christian wrote:

Define “disavowed”.

I got props a few years ago for a solid graphic novel collection, I had however never read a single one of them. #myhusbandiscoolerthanme

— Jess Phillips MP (@jessphillips) May 6, 2020

 

Also appeared in the Mirror when it originally happened. ( )

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mp-interview-front-stack-graphic-6925565

She’s since pointed out on Twitter that this excellent collection of dystopian science fiction and gothic thrillers belongs to her husband.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by Martin Smith.

I don’t see the part that has anything to do with the books I mentioned originally. Maybe that’s in another story?

Has she mentioned that those aren’t hers either, or are we just assuming that because the comics weren’t hers then she mustn’t own any of the books in her house?

It’s partly because of the thing with her husband’s books and partially because she doesn’t strike me as the kind to like sci-fi comedy, let alone read the spin-off books of it.

The embedded tweet seems to be cutting off the one I actually got the link to and just showing what it’s a reply to.

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I often see her out and about in our local high street, I’ll have to ask her if I see her.

That won’t be weird at all.

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DavidM, Christian, njerry

In other news, the EU has banned all travel in from the US until we can figure out what’s going on.

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Will_C, Todd

Which is sensible when you look at this:

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Will_C, DavidM, lorcan_nagle

lorcan_nagle wrote:

In other news, the EU has banned all travel in from the US until we can figure out what’s going on.

Yeah but is that really as important as whether Jess Phillips owns these Red Dwarf novels or not? Let’s focus on the big stuff here.

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Will_C, DavidM, Christian, garjones, lorcan_nagle

Also, sorry my graph was out of date:

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Will_C, lorcan_nagle

An interesting aspect as well coming out of Spain and the UK is we have up until now focused on survival, the death and ‘recovery’ rates. Listening to the Guardian podcast today with their health expert they are finding that people that went into ICU and came out are showing signs of permanent lung, and in some cases, brain damage. Even among younger patients some are struggling to properly recover fully after 2 or 3 months.

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Will_C, Dave, Ben, lorcan_nagle

Yeah, the idea that covid-19 is ‘merely’ a respiratory virus has gone out the window – it goes after just about any system.

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Dave, lorcan_nagle

lorcan_nagle wrote:

How do they treat Uter?

They’ve given him a Swiss accent, and given him according attributes, if I recall correctly. It kind of makes sense; if he was just speaking German, you wouldn’t notice any difference between him and the other characters.

Dave wrote:

I often see her out and about in our local high street, I’ll have to ask her if I see her.

That won’t be weird at all.

Just make sure to get her views on Man of Steel and Prometheus, as well.

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Will_C, DavidM, Dave

[DavidM]

If only it were as simple as renaming bedrooms. The word “master” is used in tens of thousands of different contexts. If there’s an English noun, there’s a good chance the word “master” has been used to qualify it. This is going to keep the Ministry of Truth clerks busy for a long, long time. Luckily, they are masters of their craft.

I hope they keep a master copy of all their changes, for later reference.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by DavidM.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by DavidM.

I am a master Tim

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A quick doc on the history of blackface:

This Twitter thread by a British-French writer whose British holiday-home-neighbours have just realised they won’t be able to retire in France now, given Brexit (which they voted for) is ::chef’s kiss:: I mean, tainted by the impending curtailing of our rights and whatnot, but seeing these idiots have to deal with getting what they voted for is wonderful schadenfreude.

Just had conversation with a British couple who have a holiday home near us. They voted for Brexit and have made no arrangements whatsoever for what happens on Jan 1. They have now discovered the reality of their situation.

The blame apparently is with "Brussels".

— RS Archer (@archer_rs) June 29, 2020

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Ben, lorcan_nagle, Todd

People of that ilk do seem completely blind to these things, they all consider themselves special cases.

I have had half a dozen conversation with (usually Australian) retirees here who rant that they left the country as it was going to the dogs with Muslim immigrants who don’t integrate. So their response is to become an immigrant in a Muslim country, telling me this over steak and chips in an Irish pub, and see nothing hypocritical abut it at all.

They’d never ever think to describe themselves as immigrants even though that’s exactly what they are. Technically ‘expatriates’ are people paid to work in a country for a specific amount of time, they’ll call themselves expatriates when they don’t fit that description, they won’t apply it to their house cleaner from Indonesia on a  2 year contract when she fits it in every way.

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lorcan_nagle, Martin Smith, Todd

garjones wrote:

They’d never ever think to describe themselves as immigrants even though that’s exactly what they are. Technically ‘expatriates’ are people paid to work in a country for a specific amount of time, they’ll call themselves expatriates when they don’t fit that description, they won’t apply it to their house cleaner from Indonesia on a  2 year contract when she fits it in every way.

Wait… are you saying that Malaysia and Indonesia are not the same country? That’s crazy, Gar! Next you’ll be telling me that New Zealand isn’t part of Australia, or that Africa isn’t a country.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

Geographical ignorance isn’t really the problem in this one.

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njerry, lorcan_nagle

Todd wrote:

A quick doc on the history of blackface:

Still amazes me sometimes that “Soul Man” was actually green lit.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

[JRCarter]

Trump calls the Black Lives Matter mural to be painted outside Trump Tower a ‘symbol of hate’

Same asshole who said there were very fine people on both sides of the Charlottesville incident.

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• This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by JRCarter.
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• This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by JRCarter.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

[JRCarter]

JRCarter wrote:

Trump calls the Black Lives Matter mural to be painted outside Trump Tower a ‘symbol of hate’

Same asshole who said there were very fine people on both sides of the Charlottesville incident.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by JRCarter.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by JRCarter.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by JRCarter.
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Did he ever retract his claims about the Central Park Five?

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Todd, JRCarter

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Did he ever retract his claims about the Central Park Five?

That would mean he’d have to admit he was wrong and he’s too much of a narcissist to do that.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

Apparently, there was a meeting in California recently to discuss reopening schools.

40 school principals are currently in quarantine after contracting COVID at the meeting.

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njerry, Todd, Ben, Dave

You know that feeling when you realise the extent to which you’ve just accepted the infantilisation of public discourse? That hit me with this opening paragraph.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Apparently, there was a meeting in California recently to discuss reopening schools.

40 school principals are currently in quarantine after contracting COVID at the meeting.

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garjones, Todd, lorcan_nagle

[lorcan_nagle]

The Lone Ranger’s mask, which famously covers his mouth.

 

Oh, wait, I’m being handed something…

• This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by lorcan_nagle.

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garjones, Todd, Dave

I mean if Trump has been wearing a facemask over his eyes for the last three months, that explains a lot.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

(He can’t even get being stupid right.)

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Todd, DavidM, lorcan_nagle

Others are experts at stupid:

At midnight the option expired to extend the Brexit transition period.

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Todd

Aw hell no:

Tucker Carlson 2024? The GOP is buzzing

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Todd

Gross. Also, I can’t imagine why he’d want to do it when he can spout his bullshit for loads of cash and no consequences.

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Todd, JRCarter

Chris D wrote:

Gross. Also, I can’t imagine why he’d want to do it when he can spout his bullshit for loads of cash and no consequences.

We said that about Trump though.

Chris D wrote:

Gross. Also, I can’t imagine why he’d want to do it when he can spout his bullshit for loads of cash and no consequences.

We said that about Trump though.

garjones wrote:

Chris D wrote:

Gross. Also, I can’t imagine why he’d want to do it when he can spout his bullshit for loads of cash and no consequences.

We said that about Trump though.

Yeah, I know. I’m just not sure that Carlson’s ego is as big and fragile as Trump’s, since the prevailing story is that Trump was so upset about a joke made about him that it made him run for president. I’m not sure Carlson has the same vindictive streak and is as obsessed with winning as Trump is.

At least that’s my hope. Because dear lord is Tucker Carlson a disgusting person. So here’s hoping he only cares about money.

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Todd

So much relies on November Chris. If Trump gets a pasting in the election then maybe the idea of ‘celeb’ candidates will be seen as a failed experiment. If he wins then god help us in so many ways.

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Chris D, Todd

People see Trump but I can see Putin too…

Not that one is taking his cues from the other but in theory,
Putin took the social divisions and issues that were already there
in the US and rooted for someone he knew would make things worse and
further weigh down and destabilize the country.

Some may dismiss all this, but in a manner of speaking, it does fit….

So, hear the one about the elderly Brit, who took a trip to Greece, to render his villa covid-safe?

His son’s the Prime Minister, you know!

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Todd

Haven’t heard that one but how about this one.

Nigel Farage walks into a bar.

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Todd

While he was supposed to be quarantining, the fuckwit.

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Todd

Sunak considers £500 vouchers for all UK adults to spend in Covid-hit firms

Chancellor urged to introduce a scheme that has jump-started other countries’ blighted hospitality and retail sectors

Radical plans to give all adults £500 and children £250 in vouchers to spend in sectors of the economy worst hit by the Covid-19 crisis are being considered by the Treasury.

 

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lorcan_nagle

Kanye West says he’s running for president. There is no evidence of that yet.

I hope not.

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Todd, Chris D, lorcan_nagle

If true, let me be the first to say Fuck Kanye. As an enthusiastic Trump supporter his motivations here would be quite clear. And if for some reason he does run and siphons enough votes in swing states to give Trump a 2nd term I would sincerely hope it would be the end of his career as well as the end of all things Kardashian. I don’t have the patience for this kind of delusional nonsense when millions of people are suffering. Go away Kanye.

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Hank Cannon, Todd

Now it is obvious that Trump is being exposed, and even GOPers in office who are honest with themselves know it.
Why is he still there?
Apparently, because they have the Presidency and Senate on their side which is overmatching Congress.
Also, the constituency supports him and they sold their soul to the current social division and they all decided to fall in line.
What else?

Chris D wrote:

If true, let me be the first to say Fuck Kanye. As an enthusiastic Trump supporter his motivations here would be quite clear. And if for some reason he does run and siphons enough votes in swing states to give Trump a 2nd term I would sincerely hope it would be the end of his career as well as the end of all things Kardashian.

I might be misunderstanding, but is this based on the idea that he’d siphon more Trump votes than Biden ones?

If so, is that likely?

Is it likely? That’s unclear. I’d hope not, but I’d think Kayne, if he got any votes, would tend towards the younger Bernie type crowd. I don’t think the Trump base is touchable, so if it would hurt anyone I’d expect it to be Biden

Again, maybe not super likely, but this election is too serious for another entitled clown like Kanye to be mucking around in it.

I thought Kanye had walked back his support for Trump.  Not that it matters really.

It’s one thing to say you’re running for President but it’s a completely different matter to actually get your name on the ballot in all 50 states. There are qualifications, applications, and deadlines. It’s four months till Election Day. The best he can hope for is a write-in campaign and that won’t amount to anything.

Every aspect of his life will come under scrutiny. Every dirty little secret. And he has plenty. It will also expose the Kardashians and they won’t be able to control the narrative like they do now. That’s problematic for Family K.

And most importantly, it takes money. Huge amounts of money. Huge amounts of money he doesn’t have and won’t be able to get. The big donors will laugh him out of the room when he comes with his hand out. The Democrats and Republicans won’t have him which means he won’t have an infrastructure from a party to support him. He is so far behind right now that he can’t catch up.

This whole thing is a non-starter and really just a publicity grab. He wants attention and this will give it to him for a bit. It will fade away and disappear soon enough.

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lorcan_nagle, Ben, Chris D

I think the deadline has past for a handful of states already, with a few more coming up in the next week or so. His tweet kind of gave me the impression of someone drunk on beer and patriotism on the 4th. Still, I’ve got no patience for his brand of shenanigans.

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Todd

Nothing screams patriotism quite as much as running for the highest available office while being gloriously underqualified.

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Hank Cannon, njerry, Dave, JRCarter, Chris D, Todd

I agree with all Todd has said but there’s still that fear it was circa 70k votes out of however many tens of millions that tipped it for Trump last time.

He does have a new album coming out so hopefully this is just some bullshit promotion for that.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle, Dave

garjones wrote:

I agree with all Todd has said but there’s still that fear it was circa 70k votes out of however many tens of millions that tipped it for Trump last time.

Could that work the other way though? If people associate him far more with Trump’s politics than anything else, it feels as though he could draw support from Trump as much as from Biden.

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lorcan_nagle

My feeling is he may draw some of the black vote which Biden has sewn up. I’m not so sure which part of Trump’s constituency shifts to West.

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Dave

garjones wrote:

I’m not so sure which part of Trump’s constituency shifts to West.

My thought was that it could be the people who could never bring themselves to vote Democrat, but who have trouble holding their nose and voting for Trump.

I mean who knows, I’m still not clear whether West is really serious on this or whether it’s just a cry for attention.

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garjones, Todd

Dave wrote:

Radical plans to give all adults £500 and children £250 in vouchers to spend in sectors of the economy worst hit by the Covid-19 crisis are being considered by the Treasury.

That is awesome. I could go to 20 concerts!

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Dave

Kanye has issues, but I heard the WH spokeswoman Mcenanay and other GOPers say things so ridiculous, it is as if they were hypnotized or brainwashed… What gives?

Al-x wrote:

What gives?

I don’t know, what did they say?

Well, the WH spokeswoman went on record and said that covid 19 would never get to the US because of Trump.
A GOP Senator said that Trump is handling the pandemic better than Obama handled Ebola (only 2 died)…
Other GOP leaders are saying things against wearing facemasks, that doctors and other med professionals aren’t really authorities.
Even the Trump supporters have been on video making scenes in store about wearing facemasks saying it is political not medical etc…
Interesting… Has there been a report on the education level of Trump supporters…

So, what gives? How did Trump get such an emotional hold on some people?

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Hank Cannon, Will_C

Al-x wrote:

So, what gives? How did Trump get such an emotional hold on some people?

When your ideology is based on opposing the other guy, you will literally say and do anything to defend your side and attack the other one.

If only some communist in the 1940s had come up with a way of describing this concept oh wait oh shit what’s this doing here?

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Christian, Hank Cannon, DavidM, Will_C, Todd

Al-x wrote:

Well, the WH spokeswoman went on record and said that covid 19 would never get to the US because of Trump.
A GOP Senator said that Trump is handling the pandemic better than Obama handled Ebola (only 2 died)…
Other GOP leaders are saying things against wearing facemasks, that doctors and other med professionals aren’t really authorities.
Even the Trump supporters have been on video making scenes in store about wearing facemasks saying it is political not medical etc…
Interesting… Has there been a report on the education level of Trump supporters…

So, what gives? How did Trump get such an emotional hold on some people?

One of Trump’s biggest voting blocks are white, non-college educated people. They made up 44% of the electorate in 2016. Trump won that demo by 36 points. I think the math there says that about 60% of all Trump’s votes came from that specific group.

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Will_C, Todd, lorcan_nagle

If your doctor tells you that you have an inoperable cancer and are going to die, the first thing you do is get a second opinion; and a third, and possibly a fourth. When none of the experts tell you what you want to hear, you go on-line and start researching cures. Then you find that “doctor” operating in Tijuana, Mexico, who purports to have a guaranteed cure for exactly your brand of cancer, so you take your life savings out of the bank, pack your car, and drive over the border to be cured.

To a lot of white Americans who feel that their privileged spot at the top of the mountain is being threatened by people of color, and women, and the LBGTQ community who are suddenly being given equal rights that are leveling the playing field at the expense of those white privileges, Donald Trump is that Tijuana “doctor” with the cure for the disease that is ailing White America. Why listen to the experts when this guy is telling you exactly what you want to hear?

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Hank Cannon, DavidM, Martin Smith, Ben, lorcan_nagle, garjones, JRCarter, Chris D, Todd, Al-x, Will_C

njerry wrote:

If your doctor tells you that you have an inoperable cancer and are going to die, the first thing you do is get a second opinion; and a third, and possibly a fourth. When none of the experts tell you what you want to hear, you go on-line and start researching cures. Then you find that “doctor” operating in Tijuana, Mexico, who purports to have a guaranteed cure for exactly your brand of cancer, so you take your life savings out of the bank, pack your car, and drive over the border to be cured.

We call that pulling a Steve Jobs these days.

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Todd

Read some of Forbes interview with Kanye…dude is not mentally well and everyone needs to stop enabling him and his delusions of grandeur. This includes the media interviewing him. There’s no good reason they should be indulging his mental illness. It’s not a joke. The whole thing is dangerous and he needs help. And we, as a country, don’t need another celebrity with a god complex mucking with the already gross political climate.

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Christian, Todd, lorcan_nagle

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

Anonymous wrote:

To be fair, they’ve been claiming that for a good decade now.

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Todd

I’m Christian and I took a flu shot last year.

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DavidM, Todd

JRCarter wrote:

I’m Christian and I took a flu shot last year.

You’re just lucky they can’t excommunicate you for that sort of talk.

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Todd

I do think Kanye’s policy proposals, as nuts as they are, can serve a purpose for those that are very politically literate and view things as very left or right, because a lot of people don’t.

He’s proposed anti-vaxx and abortion stuff but also the end of the death penalty and prison reform. I like half of those 4 and you’ll guess which ones.

I see this on Facebook more than anything (my Facebook is people I know only, my location  means I get zero political advertising, it’s not really a cesspit of arguing and division some people see).

One old classmate on there is a policeman, he’s critical about political correctness making his job hard (normally considered right) but he’s pro a cautious approach to Covid over opening up the economy early, everyone wear masks (normally considered left). He loves the NHS and wants rail privatised (socialist!) but tough on law and order (Thatcher!).

I do think there can be a bubble in political discourse that the public is aligned to a set menu of policies, left or right, but I think in reality it’s a lot more complex than that. I agree with Rand Paul on drug policy (decriminalisation) more than Jeremy Corbyn (status quo).

 

 

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Todd, Chris D, Dave

Ann Coulter endorses Amy McGrath

While Ann Coulter is without a doubt awful, it’s still kind of fun to watch conservatives turning against each other. Especially considering the Right has been trying to push the idea that the Dems are at war with each other even though they seems to have all very quickly come to support Biden months ago.

If only there was even the slightest chance McConnell could lose in November…

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Todd

Wondering if, when McGrath learned Coulter endorsed her, she was like, “Nah, I’m good.”

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Todd, njerry, Chris D

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Dave, lorcan_nagle, Todd

So, Trump’s throwing another bitch fit. This time, at the GOP senators who criticized him for commuting Stone’s sentence.

I shouldn’t be saying this about someone old enough to be my parent. Trump needs to grow the fuck up.

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Todd

On the bright side of things, at least some Republicans are actually pushing back against him

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Todd

But too little, and too late do undo the damage the GOP has enabled over the past 3+ years.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

njerry wrote:

But too little, and too late do undo the damage the GOP has enabled over the past 3+ years.

Well hopefully their self-destructive actions will lead to a schwacking at the polls in November, but I have my doubts.

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Todd, Chris D

The Brexit clusterfuck continues with the latest parliamentary briefings on how the government expects things to actually function from 2021 onwards.

My only hope is that the plans are so transparently damaging and divisive that there’s no other option for the government but to accept the loss of face and kick the can down the road by extending the transition agreement for another year or more.

(In normal times that would be the sensible option, but these days who can say.)

Too late. The government ignored the deadline.

Anonymous wrote:

Others are experts at stupid:

At midnight the option expired to extend the Brexit transition period.

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lorcan_nagle, Ben

That was at the beginning of July. But apparently they have non-existent technology to avoid any disruption or border checks.

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Ben

We have guts.  They’re magic.

Anonymous wrote:

That was at the beginning of July. But apparently they have non-existent technology to avoid any disruption or border checks.

Does it involve frickin’ lasers on sharks?

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njerry

Sharks are cool. They provide mermaids’ purses. Instead the political sharks appear to have gone old-school: paper + concrete.

So far it seems to involve endless paperwork and copious amounts of concrete/tarmac for holding centres for lorries. According to the FT, British companies trading with Europe will have to fill in an extra 215 million forms costing a fucktonne of Boris buses.

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Todd

Anonymous wrote:

Too late. The government ignored the deadline.

Anonymous wrote:

Others are experts at stupid:

At midnight the option expired to extend the Brexit transition period.

I’m not so certain. When it comes to Brexit we’ve seen lots of supposed final deadlines come and go and be kicked back by months and even years.

Don’t underestimate the ability of the EU to find a solution to get around these deadlines with inventive solutions. Anything is possible if there’s the political will on both sides to do so. (And that’s the big ‘if’.)

One possible solution would be to strike a bare-bones deal by the end of this year that provides for a future relationship based on a long implementation period, where elements of EU law and regulation essentially carry over into a new period from the start of 2021 that isn’t the transition period on paper but essentially functions in the same way.

This might be wishful thinking but I feel as though the pandemic provides the perfect cover for the UK government to agree to something like this without losing face, citing extraordinary circumstances.

However, at the same time it’s also true that it provides the perfect cover for the economic damage that’s coming if we do end up with no deal by the end of the year.

We’ll see.

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Ben

Dave wrote:

This might be wishful thinking but I feel as though the pandemic provides the perfect cover for the UK government to agree to something like this without losing face, citing extraordinary circumstances.

The problem is that enough of the Tories want a chaotic, messy Brexit so they can profit.

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Todd, Ben, garjones, Dave

I’d like to think you’re right Dave but consider masks:

Inside no. 10 a few hours ago:

What ho boys, shall we make masks mandatory?

Yes. No. Maybe. Sometimes. Will I make money out of it?

Ok then, masks are mandatory but only from 24 July.

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lorcan_nagle

Tory MP Damian Green, who represents an overwhelming leave-voting constituency in Kent, has been complaining that they are turning his town into a giant lorry park. My favourite commentary on this piece of schadenfreude:

“I never thought trucks would pile up at my border, weeps MP from the Trucks Piling Up At Borders party.”

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lorcan_nagle

Thing is, Damian Green campaigned to remain and was still (moderately) vocal about it while in Theresa May’s government.

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DavidM, lorcan_nagle