I wonder who’ll be next week’s Prime Minister?
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And again, why is this the voters fault for rejecting Hillary Clinton and not the Democrats’ fault for being out of touch?
Because the rejection of Clinton wasn’t happening in a vacuum; it was happening in a context where rejecting one candidate assists the other, worse candidate.
Trump voters will turn out to vote. To counter that, people need to turn out to vote for Biden. Staying home and not voting, no matter how principled the reasons why, helps Trump.
If your assertion that rejecting one candidate helps the other one, then again, why is it the voters’ fault for rejecting the bad candidate and not the party’s fault for running a bad candidate?
I think we’re just coming at the argument from different standpoints.
You care more about blaming the parties and whose fault it is for the shitty situation that politics is in at the moment, which is fair enough and is a question that needs to be addressed if you want any kind of long-term systemic change.
I care more about the realities of the here and now, and what has to happen to ensure an optimum outcome at the next election.
Both those aspects are important, and the way they interact is frustrating – because you don’t want your support for the better of two candidates to be construed as support for the overall system, or even an endorsement of the party you’re voting for. It’s just a ‘lesser of two evils’ calculation.
But at the same time, you want to ensure that things are as good as can be for the next for or five years – and that means doing what’s necessary to help the better candidate get in.
What I’m trying to get at is that “we need to vote for the imperfect candidate now” is beginning to fail as an argument, and marginalised people are starting to walk away from it. Like have you heard about Tenacious Unicorn Ranch? It’s an attempt by LGBT people in Colorado to set up a self-sufficient community in an isolated area, that they could defend by force up to and including armed patrols of their territory. Now they’re pretty radical (and apparently were recently chased off their land, so it’s unclear what’s happening with them right now), but it’s indicative of a growing attitude. It begins with the radicals and spreads centrewise. Accelerationists will accept short term chaos and an increase in authoritaian overreach if it helps bring people to their side and drive desire for the Revolution.
There’s a couple of states where Biden won by like 20,000 votes and have 30-40,000 Muslim voters. If even half of them decide to sit the election out over American complicity in Palestine, Biden might lose the state.
I don’t disagree that the US especially faces an existential threat right now. I just think the Democrats are going about fighting it in a terrible way and dooming themselves to failure.
I’m not sure that checking out of the system entirely is the way to go about making a positive change though – that feels like the kind of “fuck wider society, I only care about my group and their interests” attitude that we would decry if we saw it from people on the right.
Same root cause, different expression, it’s all about alienation from society. The conservative version tends towards “I don’t need to help you, I’ve got what I need” or more recently it’s been an excuse to hurt people, the leftist side is “why should I help you when you never help me despite repeated promises?”
I don’t disagree that the US especially faces an existential threat right now. I just think the Democrats are going about fighting it in a terrible way and dooming themselves to failure.
The Democrats’ problem is that they will always fight for what they think is the middle of the country and try to get right-to-middle voters to vote for them instead of the GOP. What they haven’t tried is actually mobilising the left and see if that might give them a majority. The Bernie Sanders what-if.
I’m not disagreeing that the Democrats have their share of the blame here. But that’s the thing, you keep talking about the mistakes of the Democrats. I’m not arguing against that in any way. What I can’t understand is people voting (or not voting, as the case may be) against their own self-interest, especially when that self-interest is basically continued survival.
Accelerationists will accept short term chaos and an increase in authoritaian overreach if it helps bring people to their side and drive desire for the Revolution.
I doubt that those guys – the ones who actually see the hellscape that is coming and who are getting war-ready because they’d rather have the fight over with – are the majority of the people who may not be voting in this election. I think the majority are just people who don’t think Biden delivered and who are thinking that a round of Trump will teach the Dems a lesson, and who are basically thinking they’ll only go out and vote if there’s a candidate they actually like.
And who will be very surprised at what a second term of Trump actually will entail.
The Democrats’ problem is that they will always fight for what they think is the middle of the country and try to get right-to-middle voters to vote for them instead of the GOP. What they haven’t tried is actually mobilising the left and see if that might give them a majority. The Bernie Sanders what-if.
The interesting thing in the UK is that we have kind of seen that play out, when Corbyn took over as Labour leader and subsequently won a much larger share of the vote than predicted against May. True, he was then defeated in the next election in 2019, but that vote was largely dictated by Brexit positions rather than being a standard general election.
I think Corbyn showed that there is an appetite out there for genuinely leftwing policies, but people seem to be now using that 2019 result as an argument against that, which I think is unfair.
So here’s a question, if an American member of the LGBT community was in front of you, saying that they had been so disillusioned by the Biden administration that they were not going to vote this year, do you think this line of questioning would convince them to vote for him?
In 2016, people didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton because they “didn’t like her”. Because those people didn’t vote, Trump got elected. He stacked the Supreme Court who overturned Roe vs Wade. Due to his incompetence handling of COVID, millions died. His tax cuts for the rich, this set in motion the recession we’re still recovering from.
All that damage done because of a dislike of Hillary. How many women regret not voting for her?
Not voting for Biden runs the risk of Trump getting in again. You know the Right will do anything to destroy gay rights. They would love to end gay marriage.
I will say this: if Trump gets reelected because LGBT+ people didn’t vote for Biden and gay rights are rolled back, I don’t want to hear one non-voting LGBT+ complain. They forfeited that right when they didn’t vote for Biden.
They need to get their heads out of their asses and look around. There is far more at stake by not supporting Biden. They aren’t the only group who’ll be at risk with a Trump sequel.
And again, why is this the voters fault for rejecting Hillary Clinton and not the Democrats’ fault for being out of touch?
As I mentioned upthread, a lot of the systemic change starts at the grassroots level. Where are all the groups putting forth progressive candidates and truly backing them, building support for them? Run those candidates and sell them to the voters. When that happens in thousands of elections across the country, that changes the whole party. That’s how your base shifts and you create meaningful change at the higher levels. You can force the old guard out or at least minimize their power and influence. Trying to change the top when you don’t have the base to support it is going to fail.
Trying to hinge everything on Biden is really a non-starter of an argument. Get Biden in then you have four years to find and develop some viable candidates. You also have two years to do something to make changes at the midterms for the House and Senate. And keep working on the lower levels.
So here’s a question, if an American member of the LGBT community was in front of you, saying that they had been so disillusioned by the Biden administration that they were not going to vote this year, do you think this line of questioning would convince them to vote for him?
In 2016, people didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton because they “didn’t like her”. Because those people didn’t vote, Trump got elected. He stacked the Supreme Court who overturned Roe vs Wade. Due to his incompetence handling of COVID, millions died. His tax cuts for the rich, this set in motion the recession we’re still recovering from.
All that damage done because of a dislike of Hillary. How many women regret not voting for her?
Not voting for Biden runs the risk of Trump getting in again. You know the Right will do anything to destroy gay rights. They would love to end gay marriage.
I will say this: if Trump gets reelected because LGBT+ people didn’t vote for Biden and gay rights are rolled back, I don’t want to hear one non-voting LGBT+ complain. They forfeited that right when they didn’t vote for Biden.
They need to get their heads out of their asses and look around. There is far more at stake by not supporting Biden. They aren’t the only group who’ll be at risk with a Trump sequel.
And again, why is this the voters fault for rejecting Hillary Clinton and not the Democrats’ fault for being out of touch?
As I mentioned upthread, a lot of the systemic change starts at the grassroots level. Where are all the groups putting forth progressive candidates and truly backing them, building support for them? Run those candidates and sell them to the voters. When that happens in thousands of elections across the country, that changes the whole party. That’s how your base shifts and you create meaningful change at the higher levels. You can force the old guard out or at least minimize their power and influence. Trying to change the top when you don’t have the base to support it is going to fail.
Trying to hinge everything on Biden is really a non-starter of an argument. Get Biden in then you have four years to find and develop some viable candidates. You also have two years to do something to make changes at the midterms for the House and Senate. And keep working on the lower levels.
And once again, this is the promise of change maybe sometime in the future and in the meantime you’ve gotta vote for the Democrats as they continue to ignore you.
And once again, this is the promise of change maybe sometime in the future and in the meantime you’ve gotta vote for the Democrats as they continue to ignore you.
Look at it another way: if Biden were to win without those votes, the Dems still don’t learn the lesson. So what is actually accomplished? Congratulations, you made a statement no one heard. Even worse, the Dems see you as irrelevant, which further marginalizes you. Yeah, in the long run, it will hurt the Dems and we will probably end it at a point like this again. At least voting for Biden give your voice a bit more volume and and a chance at progress.
Again, trying to send a message to the Dems that puts you at a higher risk of a Trump reelection. Try to punish Biden and the Dems at this point is cutting off your nose to spite your face. It is pointless and won’t make the difference you think it will. The Dem leadership will no doubt take the wrong lesson from a loss.
Let’s be real, even that future change is not guaranteed. It is going to take a lot of work. It will be time for the progressives to put their money where the mouth is and start making those changes now. Start working for the future they want. Work to make it happen.
You want some “magic bullet” lesson/message that simply just won’t happen. I’m a staunch Democrat and I don’t like Biden. But FUCK, I’ve seen the damage caused by Trump that will be felt for decades and I will not let that happen again. We have provided valid arguements on why to vote for Biden. Are they ideal? No, but this is politics and this is the nature of the world. There is probably never going to be a “perfect moment”. While you may want 100%, you will probably never get it. You may only get 65%, which is better than 0%.
It’s probably time to move on from this specific topic as we seem to be going in circles at this point.
We have seen this in different social reform movements. In women’s rights, there are complaints among minority feminists who are told to embrace and fight for the mainstream issues (and practically save it) while the problems in their communities never get addressed.
As mentioned before when Roe v Wade was overturned: Why was that this “clarion call” the moment that happened and not before with the other issues? And this asking for help from the ones you didn’t help before when the oppression first came to them?
A lot of communities vote Dem and their vote helps, but gets taken for granted: the black vote, LGBTQ+, and so on.
It was actually the grassroots efforts of Stacy Abrams to get more voters that helped flipped Georgia to Biden and then there was that huge nationwide celebration. But where is the “returning of the favor”? The strategy might be to withhold, thereby holding the Dems hostage.
All that being said: Does withholding support help this election?
Look at it another way: if Biden were to win without those votes, the Dems still don’t learn the lesson.
That’s the basically the current situation. And that’s the core problem.
You want some “magic bullet” lesson/message that simply just won’t happen.
That’s not what I’m trying to get across, I’m talking about people who right now are deeply hurt and disillusioned with things as they stand and they see no engagement with their problems, concerns and fears, and as such are turning away from the Democrats. it doesn’t matter how things should be, it’s an imminent crisis now. Convincing me that they should work inside the system doesn’t fix the problem because they’re still rejecting the system in the US.
The interesting thing in the UK is that we have kind of seen that play out, when Corbyn took over as Labour leader and subsequently won a much larger share of the vote than predicted against May. True, he was then defeated in the next election in 2019, but that vote was largely dictated by Brexit positions rather than being a standard general election.
I think Corbyn showed that there is an appetite out there for genuinely leftwing policies, but people seem to be now using that 2019 result as an argument against that, which I think is unfair.
Recent politics is full of missed opportunities like that. In Germany, with just one or two percent more votes last time, we could’ve had an actual labour/green government who might have achieved some real change and ushered in a time of progressive politics. Instead, they had to include the fucking FDP in their coalition (who are basically free market libertarians) who are now blocking policy at every turn and making politics for the 1%. And because that coalition is so fucked up, the conservatives will win next time and the fascists are achieving record highs in surveys.
It makes me want to scream how close we got to finally seeing something better for once.
Convincing me that they should work inside the system doesn’t fix the problem because they’re still rejecting the system in the US.
Yeah, well, they’ll appreciate what they had with the current status quo after Trump’s next term(s), I am sure.
Look at it another way: if Biden were to win without those votes, the Dems still don’t learn the lesson.
That’s the basically the current situation. And that’s the core problem.
You want some “magic bullet” lesson/message that simply just won’t happen.
That’s not what I’m trying to get across, I’m talking about people who right now are deeply hurt and disillusioned with things as they stand and they see no engagement with their problems, concerns and fears, and as such are turning away from the Democrats. it doesn’t matter how things should be, it’s an imminent crisis now. Convincing me that they should work inside the system doesn’t fix the problem because they’re still rejecting the system in the US.
Not voting for Biden does absolutely nothing to solve any problems. It has the potential to make things worse. And those groups will be truly fucked at that point.
I live in the US, specifically Texas, and I see what’s going on. I see the bigots and fascists that are dominating American conservatism. I see what they are doing at the local and state levels to erode rights. Every vote not cast to stop them is a tacit endorsement of surrender. This election is triage. Stabilize the patient so the real work can be done.
I’m sorry but the only viable path forward is to change the system from the inside. There is not going to be any instantaneous change, which is what you are expecting. It is foolish and dangerously naive to expect it. The fact of the matter is political change is almost always a slow grind. Accept that and move forward.
I’m done, because I don’t think we’re going to agree on this.
Yeah, well, they’ll appreciate what they had with the current status quo after Trump’s next term(s), I am sure.
Yeah, there might be bans on abortion or trans healthcare, or people phoning bomb threats into schools, or arson attacks…
Also, the idea that a default Democrat voter staying home and not voting for Biden is really going to send a message to them and help reshape the party doesn’t hold up, for me – because like you said, people already did that with Clinton (helping Trump with his win) and we’re still complaining that the Democrats haven’t changed.
So we just have to accept that they’ll never change and keep supporting them?
Also, the idea that a default Democrat voter staying home and not voting for Biden is really going to send a message to them and help reshape the party doesn’t hold up, for me – because like you said, people already did that with Clinton (helping Trump with his win) and we’re still complaining that the Democrats haven’t changed.
So we just have to accept that they’ll never change and keep supporting them?
No, you can put pressure on them and make your voice heard in all those other ways I previously mentioned too (the ways that you said didn’t exist or work).
Politics is constantly live and changing, the idea that you can only make some kind of contribution to the conversation every time an election comes around (and then by not voting) feels like an excuse for contributing as little as possible to the conversation and then moaning about the outcome.
(the ways that you said didn’t exist or work).
The ways that objectively don’t work given that LGBT people, despite protests, lobbying and activism, still aren’t being protected by Democratic politicians that keep expecting their vote.
It’s getting like Charlie Brown, Lucy and the football. The Democrats are definitely going to do something worthwhile this time if I just vote for them, I’m sure of it– oh no, they’ve pulled the football away again. But if I vote for them this time…!
I want to clarify that I think it’s a different set of circumstances between the US, which has more of binary system, and the UK, where you do always have alternatives, and that in the US voting in Biden over Trump is worthwhile. But it’s still a completely broken system where if you vote for someone, they don’t do anything for you and you then even threaten to withhold that vote, you get accused of complicity with “the enemy”, with no accountability seeming resting with the politicians who think they’re owed your vote. This isn’t a new phenomenon with just the LGBT community. How many years did Democrats spend expecting Latino, Hispanic and black votes to by default go with them, given the inherent racism of the Republicans, while doing little for them.
But it’s still a completely broken system where if you vote for someone, they don’t do anything for you and you then even threaten to withhold that vote, you get accused of complicity with “the enemy”, with no accountability seeming resting with the politicians who think they’re owed your vote.
One obvious solution is for the Senate and House of Representatives to have term limits, so that the Schumers and Pelosis and McConnells and Grahams can’t lock themselves into those seats at the expense of younger, fresher candidates who actually care about their constituents. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez somehow was able to grab a House seat away from the guy whom the Democrats were grooming to be Nancy Pelosi’s successor as Speaker of the House; but that kind of victory in ousting a congressman who has had the job for 20 years is extremely rare for two reasons: the re-election committees prefer to financially back incumbents who have name-recognition value; and voters who aren’t paying attention typically vote for the familiar name. If that familiarity advantage is removed every 8 years or so, it allows newcomers a fairer opportunity to be voted in based on their platforms.
Problem is getting that change through:
“All those in favour of mandatory unemployment for members of this house? The noes have it.”
If you do institute term limits it has to be done in a way that will allow for minimal brain drain but also bring in new blood. And while it might be a part of resolving the issues, you still have the problem that the parties in the US are tightly controlled from the top down, excepting Primary upsets like AOC, it’s very hard for someone to get on the ballot without the approval of the local party, who generally take their marching orders from the central one.
You also still have the problem of first past the post voting, which will always normalise over time to two dominant parties with a handful of smaller ones at best, with little chance to break that stranglehold.
Yeah, there might be bans on abortion or trans healthcare, or people phoning bomb threats into schools, or arson attacks…
You’re thinking way too small if you think that’s the worst of what will happen.
So we just have to accept that they’ll never change and keep supporting them?
Well, not if you want to try living under fascism as soon as possible.
You’re thinking way too small if you think that’s the worst of what will happen.
I’m fully aware of how bad things could get. Like I posted upthread about groups who are arming themselves and that I know people who have literally made escape plans. And this ultimately is the point. Marginalised people are so checked out from the system they will resort to fleeing or to physical violence. And saying to them “you better vote or things will get worse” holds no fear for them, they’re already past that. They’ve tried it your way and gotten nothing.
It’s not my way, mate. Well, I suppose it is because I’ll always still vote for the party that represents the best of the available choices to me, but then again I’ve got more than two choices over here. Anyway, it’s not like I wouldn’t prefer a more progressive Democrat Party in the US.
Well, we’ll have to lean back and enjoy the ride then. If Trump actually wins, I do feel sorry not only for the marginalised but for everybody in the rational spectrum of things in the US. But I suppose it’ll at least be interesting to watch from a distance.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/mike-pence-endorse-donald-trump-2024-surprise/story?id=108167592
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/mike-pence-endorse-donald-trump-2024-surprise/story?id=108167592
It astonishes me how anybody can consider him worthy to be the President of this country.
Just kind of venting…
News on in the background, story on the right wing move of Canadian politics.
Alberta Provincially is hard core right wing (and in power) and will vote right Federally.
Then they reference UK Rishi Sunak and a quote of something like “there’s a man, and a woman, and we’re all stupid for not thinking like that.”
(yes, not a direct quote, hope you get my jist)
I will give young people a pass when it’s obvious they’re only speaking what they’ve been taught, but for fuck sake when you’re an adult, and somewhat educated, you actually use children for your political advantage? Disgusting.
Imagine how hard it is to be a teenager trying to figure it out, and laws are passed that say you need your parents permission to “come out” or to use pronouns at school (and whatever pathetic things they keep trying for).
Someone’s life is at stake. Not your life, not a random unknown story, a human life.
No matter what they say about Trudeau, he has said he opposes all that shit (“trans kids need to know we have their back”).
But the current NDP(never in power)/Liberal coalition is definitely in danger come next election.
Don’t see another option to lead the Liberals, and “white trash Canada” won’t put south asian Jagmeet Singh as PM.
In a 3 party system, I am definitely trying to put a Liberal or NDP in a seat in my riding.
but that right wing shit is walking into power. Yuck!
Like I said, just venting
Museum lists Margaret Thatcher with Hitler and Bin Laden as modern ‘villain’
So, where’s the lie?
So, where’s the lie?
Well, the complete headline is a lie. The correct headline would be: Exhibition piece caption that describes modern Punch and Judy shows points out that unpopular politicians have been used in P&J shows instead of the devil, including Hitler, Bin Laden and Thatcher.
It’s an observation; this is what has been done in Punch and Judy shows. It’s not the museum saying “Thatcher is like Hitler!”.
So yeah, once again the same culture wars bullshit lying. And everybody just fucking goes with it, a thousand media reports covering this that just copy and paste the same shit instead of everybody just shrugging and going well this is a bit of nonsense isn’t it as they actually should, because outrage gets fucking clicks AND THIS IS WHY WE ARE ALL DOOMED TO HELL.
Just saying.
Does the US want elections like this?
In a manner of speaking, it already has for a long time.
If you count some of the voter suppression, and who were and weren’t allowed to vote in the past.
“Never going to happen” until it does in its own way.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/new-york-ag-pushes-back-trumps-extraordinary-request/story?id=108309706
So he can’t pay it and doesn’t have any takers. The AG has been biding her time for years.
Now one of his golf courses, a residence and bank accounts might be seized.
Macaroni is a fucking weirdo.
That’s not the worst thing one can say about him.
Wow, the US has not vetoed a UN ceasefire resolution on Gaza, which means it has passed.
Well sure, most of the ethnic cleansing is done now. They want to safely go in and “rebuild” Gaza. For Israeli settlers, obv, not the Palestinians.
A state forensic institute did research here into crimes of sexual exploitation and let the cat out of the bag, 90 % of perps had a migration background.
I am not necessarily against all migration, but all the “diversity is our strength” lefties should just fucking go to hell. It’s better if these people were never in government again.
A state forensic institute did research here into crimes of sexual exploitation and let the cat out of the bag, 90 % of perps had a migration background.
I am not necessarily against all migration, but all the “diversity is our strength” lefties should just fucking go to hell. It’s better if these people were never in government again.
You don’t give a shit about rape victims, you just hate foreigners
A state forensic institute did research here into crimes of sexual exploitation and let the cat out of the bag, 90 % of perps had a migration background.
Can you give a source for this? I’d be interested in the details.
Also, one obvious questions is: How many of the victims had a migration background?
A state forensic institute did research here into crimes of sexual exploitation and let the cat out of the bag, 90 % of perps had a migration background.
Can you give a source for this? I’d be interested in the details.
Also, one obvious questions is: How many of the victims had a migration background?
It’s here, but it’s obviously in Dutch. I think you can use translate.
It’s here, but it’s obviously in Dutch
Thanks, but I’m not sure I want any of that foreign rubbish.
And in a shocking turn of events, the article makes it clear that there are many overlapping factors and it’s not as simple as “90% of rapes are committed by migrants”.
Honestly Arjan, why do you even bother to provide your sources when they never say what you claim they say? Or do you just not read them? And if not, why don’t you read them and actually educate yourself?
A bridge in Baltimore gets hit by a massive freight vessel and collapses, the usual suspects start alleging terrorism and other idiocy.
David Simon on Greene’s conspiracy bollocks:
“Are you intentional or just an accident? You complete submoronic pratfall of a human being.”
educate yourself
You’re gaslighting and lying, but do you know what a hilarious charicature of a leftshit you are?
educate yourself
You’re gaslighting and lying, but do you know what a hilarious charicature of a leftshit you are?
What did I lie about?
educate yourself
You’re gaslighting and lying, but do you know what a hilarious charicature of a leftshit you are?
What did I lie about?
It’s here, but it’s obviously in Dutch. I think you can use translate.
Sorry, took me a bit, I was away for a few days.
So, it’s interesting that – while the article does point out the other factors at work – that the newspaper chose this title. If you look at the actual publication of the research, the headline is this:
Perpetrator or victim of sexual exploitation
STEVIG recognizes a clear connection between perpetrators of (sexual) exploitation and victims treated by the SGLVG institution. That is why STEVIG started the exploratory program ‘Perpetrator or victim of sexual exploitation’ in 2023.
And this was presumably what Lorcan was refering to – there are a number of factors that the perpetrators had in common, and the report actually focuses on other factors than “migration background”.
The programmatic exploration reveals a sketch of perpetrators who are mainly traumatized individuals. Mostly young men who grew up in the criminal circuit have themselves been victims of domestic violence, sexual abuse and emotional neglect. What is also striking is that many perpetrators had to miss their father during their upbringing. Some perpetrators have been diagnosed with a mild intellectual disability.
It is an important point of attention because it is suspected that the MID problem is a non-negligible factor in other forms of crime. This suspicion is also supported by the Center for Crime Prevention and Security (CCV). The Youth and Safety Guide states that approximately 45 percent of all people in prison, convicted of various offenses, have an MID. The National Knowledge Center for LVB states that (physical) aggression crimes are committed more often by people with a mild intellectual disability than by people who are normally gifted.
https://www.stevig.nl/over-stevig/onderzoek-en-ontwikkeling/dader-of-slachtoffer
Unfortunately, it’s not possible to look at the report itself (you can get a link to download it, but I think you have to represent some kind of instituation for that…), but the 90% number seems to be accurate. Presumably, as is mentioned in the article, the perpetrators also all had a background of coming from impoverished areas, and other factors like being victims of sexual abuse. And yes, it would make a lot of sense to look at why those factors overlap and what you could do when it comes to prevention. But somehow I don’t assume that that’s what you were going for, Arjan.
In my country the government wants to make holocaust denial illegal. Might seem like a good idea, but to make everything fair they would have to make denial of all genocides illegal. That would mean our government could be held criminally responsible as they deny that there is a genocide happening in Gaza.
I suspect there are quite a few instances in which the debates are still ongoing as to whether they fit the definition of genocide. This also goes for Gaza, of course.
And anyway, Holocaust denial is its own thing, and one that usually happens in conjunction with pushing neo-nazi and anti-semitic ideology. It is of course illegal in Germany, but I am actually quite surprised how many countries have made it punishable by law:
I suspect there are quite a few instances in which the debates are still ongoing as to whether they fit the definition of genocide. This also goes for Gaza, of course.
And anyway, Holocaust denial is its own thing, and one that usually happens in conjunction with pushing neo-nazi and anti-semitic ideology. It is of course illegal in Germany, but I am actually quite surprised how many countries have made it punishable by law:
The EU has made some resolution that all countries should make holocaust denial illegal. But in the Netherlands the plan is to do this with a law that makes all genocide denial illegal. Holocaust denial in the Netherlands is already de facto illegal since it is seen as a way of insulting Jews as an ethnic group. But it is not explicitly illegal yet as far as I know.
This: https://archive.ph/Qh79Q is a good article by a Dutch holocaust scholar Ugur Umit Ungor (the guy is Turkish born but he speaks some of the most eloquent Dutch I hear anyone speaking nowadays) where he says the term genocide for certain events that fit the definition as a symbol of ultimate evil risks losing sight of other events that can be just as bad but don’t exactly fit that definition.
OH SHIT
OH SHIT
Did you drop your toothbrush in the toilet again, Dave?
Or are you referring to Iran’s drone and missile strike?
I am wondering whether Iran deliberately started an attack that they knew would fail. I mean, they had to show some reaction to Israel attacking their embassy in Damascus, but did it in a way they knew would not be effective so as not to further escalate?
At least that’s what I’m hoping. All-out war between Iran and Israel would be beyond terrifying.
OH SHIT
Did you drop your toothbrush in the toilet again, Dave?
Or are you referring to Iran’s drone and missile strike?
It can be two things
I am wondering whether Iran deliberately started an attack that they knew would fail.
I agree; if they wanted to inflict maximum damage, I doubt that Iran would have notified Israel’s neighbors about what they were doing, knowing how likely it is that someone would leak that information to Israel or its allies. I mean, by the time the missiles and drones were launched UK and US fighter jets were already position to shoot most of them out of the sky.
I am wondering whether Iran deliberately started an attack that they knew would fail. I mean, they had to show some reaction to Israel attacking their embassy in Damascus, but did it in a way they knew would not be effective so as not to further escalate?
At least that’s what I’m hoping. All-out war between Iran and Israel would be beyond terrifying.
Yeah, it seems like it was a performative act. That they’re publicly saying they see no further need for attack (which weirdly I take at face value, it’s not like they lie much when spewing hate about Israel), after their drones and missiles largely failed utterly suggests it was an attempt to save face more than anything.
I am wondering whether Iran deliberately started an attack that they knew would fail. I mean, they had to show some reaction to Israel attacking their embassy in Damascus, but did it in a way they knew would not be effective so as not to further escalate?
At least that’s what I’m hoping. All-out war between Iran and Israel would be beyond terrifying.
I hope you’re right but I’m not sure. We need some people in these governments who want to de-escalate. We need them everywhere in fact because there are far too few of them.
There’s an interesting dynamic in polics right now with Iran. Apparently they’re close to having a nuke, occasionally people say they could already build a nuke if they wanted to. However apparently they’re also in danger of Israel bombing the shit out of them. It makes me think they would hurry up and build those nukes already so they’d be safe from israel because they could retaliate with enormous devastation.
Nukes are the ultimate guarantor of safety, ironically. And they make you a player on the world stage, and Iran wants to be a player. But I can’t really tell if they are going to go for it. They have been close to it for so long, you’d think they’d have one by now if they really wanted it.
November is 6 months away and what will come into play for both parties?
The former President on trial, Roe v Wade overturned, these campus protests over Israel Palestine, border issues, even TikTok.
Biden doesn’t come out clean either in all this.
How all this will affect the election… Who knows?
Israel/Palestine affecting the US elections is one of those things that nobody could’ve seen coming, and it’s worrying that this one can only hurt the Democrats and won’t affect the Republicans one way or the other. Because, not to be too cliché about the Republicans, but at least where the Trump faction is concerned, I think it’s safe to assume they’re both more than a bit anti-semitic and approve of Arabs dying on general principle. And yet, those exact people may be helped into power because the people on the other side care about both the rights of Jewish people and the rights of Palestinians and are tearing themselves apart over it.
Well, at least the Tories are getting a proper kicking. Where’s the party hats, British board members?
Israel/Palestine affecting the US elections is one of those things that nobody could’ve seen coming, and it’s worrying that this one can only hurt the Democrats and won’t affect the Republicans one way or the other.
Which is pretty silly really. Because again, like the conversation we had before about LGBT rights, do people really think things would be better with Trump in charge?
Biden should definitely be held to account on all of these individual issues. But if it gets to the extent where this issue causes people to stay at home during the election, it once again plays into Trump’s hands.
Well, at least the Tories are getting a proper kicking. Where’s the party hats, British board members?
Unfortunately we have to import party hats from the EU, and the customs charges now make it economically unviable for them to be sold in the UK.
Israel/Palestine affecting the US elections is one of those things that nobody could’ve seen coming, and it’s worrying that this one can only hurt the Democrats and won’t affect the Republicans one way or the other.
Which is pretty silly really. Because again, like the conversation we had before about LGBT rights, do people really think things would be better with Trump in charge?
Biden should definitely be held to account on all of these individual issues. But if it gets to the extent where this issue causes people to stay at home during the election, it once again plays into Trump’s hands.
Sounds like the Democrats should so something to get those disaffected voters back on side then
I thought you might say something like that :)
And you know I don’t really disagree in general, but especially with this topic, they’re between a rock and a hard place, as they’ll also lose votes if it looks like they’re tolerating anti-semitism. And that discourse sucks, because it should be easy to differentiate between Netanjahu’s policies and the people of Israel, let alone Jewish people living in the US. But it isn’t, and one of the reasons for that is that some of the protestors aren’t helping by using symbolism and slogans that imply Israel should be wiped off the map or endorse the actions of Hamas.
This one isn’t an easy solve for the Democrats in an election year. Nor is it for anyone living in this world, really.
As exemplified in a recent protest in Hamburg which was supposed to be about islamophobia in Germany (especially against the background of the Israel-Palestine war) and turned into a rally calling to install a caliphate in Germany.
Great job fighting that islamophobia, guys.
The Tories are collapsing but it’s interesting (heartening too) that Labour aren’t surging to fill that void. If you look at the seat gains on councils, more have gone to independents, Greens and Lib Dems combined than Labour. Sky News is even projecting (which seems tricky to do from local to general) that they won’t get enough to form a majority government.
Khan and Burnham retain their Mayoralties.
Surprising nobody. The array of weirdos in the London race was impressive.
No, there were reasons to be wary. Voter ID laws, the switch to FPTP, whether ULEZ was the big deal the Conservatives wanted it to be. London has elected Conservative Mayors too.
As it played out though? Under FPTP, Khan increased his majority.
London mayoral hopeful Count Binface said “down with fascism, up with Ceefax” after discovering he had beaten Britain First’s candidate, Nick Scanlon.
He told reporters at City Hall: “It looks like I have defeated Britain First in an election.
“Come on, you have to cheer about that … Down with fascism, up with Ceefax, what can I say?”
No, there were reasons to be wary. Voter ID laws, the switch to FPTP, whether ULEZ was the big deal the Conservatives wanted it to be. London has elected Conservative Mayors too.
As it played out though? Under FPTP, Khan increased his majority.
That’s a fairly predictable end point under FPTP. Most of the smaller candidates were going on about ULEZ and/or “woke” politics, so they were going to drain votes from the Tories rather than Labour.
Basically the reverse of what happened in… 2010, I think it was where Labour lost votes all over the UK to smaller left-wing parties and it cost them the election.
Yeah, it’s funny as the government changed the voting system, in the belief it would help them win, having forgotten that Johnson won twice under the previous system.
The Tories are collapsing but it’s interesting (heartening too) that Labour aren’t surging to fill that void. If you look at the seat gains on councils, more have gone to independents, Greens and Lib Dems combined than Labour. Sky News is even projecting (which seems tricky to do from local to general) that they won’t get enough to form a majority government.
I think you see more of a spread of voting for secondary parties in local council elections like these. In a general election I think people will be more focused on the main parties rather than the relatively marginal players. I would be very, very surprised if Labour fail to secure enough seats for a majority given that most current projections have them winning comfortably.
Aw, they grow up so fast*, don’t they?
*into little fascists of their own
With the EU elections coming I wonder how many people know the program of their centre right parties, who form the “European People’s Party” group that will likely win. These rats are the most willing to sell out their own countries and have more EU federalism. They’re not “traditional” or “conservative”.
Four parties including Wilders’s PVV reached an agreement to form our next government. Wilders will not be prime minister and he dropped his insane anti-Islam agenda, for the moment. The agenda isn’t that radical, there’s little change with the previous government. Same Ukraine policy, same climate policy.
Still very depressing that Wilder’s party is in government now. But at least he isn’t going to be PM. We’ll see how well they keep it together.
Well I got my one party I still kinda like, but I think the rest is just fucking garbage. I do have some respect for Rutte though, I think he did his job well, he’s a real professional and I think a decent man, even if I have differences of opinion with him. Apparently he’s the frontrunner for next NATO chief.
edit: fucking garbage is a bit harsh perhaps…let’s just say “not good”. There are some decent people, but it’s not good in general.
We’ll see how well they keep it together.
I am not sure. I think the common wisdom is people saying it will fall apart because the parties are quite different. If one of the parties involved think they can benefit by walking away then it’s over, we’ll see I guess.
I wonder if you’d ask some of the climate activists where the EU rates compared to China in CO2 emissions if they’d be close to the real answer.
I am not sure why? Do you think there’s any particular sympathies for China in climate activist circles? Because I’d find that rather surprising.
I am not sure why? Do you think there’s any particular sympathies for China in climate activist circles? Because I’d find that rather surprising.
I think it’s likely that a lot of people have a misapprehension that CO2 per capita in Europe is higher than it is in China when it is in truth the reverse. I am not sure, but that’s why I think it would be an interesting survey, if you would ask random protestors.
That’d be very surprising to me, it’s a pretty well-known fact that China is one of the biggest emittors globally.
Of course if you’re going per capita, which is the more meaningful comparison, most European countries are still ahead of China (but not the EU as a whole, I think).
I think China has managed to generate a lot of positive headlines for addressing climate change in the last few years – people being impressed how fast an authoritarian regime can act if it reacts to the right things – but it’s still a country in fits recently-fully-industrialised phase which produces many of the globe’s goods. So, you know.
I think China has managed to generate a lot of positive headlines for addressing climate change in the last few years – people being impressed how fast an authoritarian regime can act if it reacts to the right things – but it’s still a country in fits recently-fully-industrialised phase which produces many of the globe’s goods. So, you know.
That’s interesting though, why the positive headlines? Who writes those? China’s emissions are growing. Ours are dropping. When did you last see positive headlines in the mainstream news about the Western approach to climate change?
Oh, there’s been a lot of positive headlines about the progress we’ve made over here in the last few years. There are, of course, more headlines about it not being enough, but that’s just because, well, it’s not enough. But here’s the good news:
FRANKFURT, Jan 3 (Reuters) – The share of renewables on Germany’s power grids rose by 6.6 percentage points to 55% of the total last year, the sector’s regulator said on Wednesday, as Europe’s largest economy moves closer to its 2030 target.
Worth celebrating!
As for the positive China headlines, I think it’s because it is so unexpected. My partner was in china like eight years ago and was shocked how much of its traffic was electric cars, at a time when there were hardly any over here. And the thing is that it is kind of counter-intuitive for an authoritarian country to strive for sustainability. It’s just not what you’d expect them to do – most authoritarian regimes don’t give a shit or are actively trying to get the rest of the world to not change energy policies because they want to sell them CO2 resources. China has been going the opposite way, and while it’ll take them to make the switch, they actually are working on it. Here’s one of those positive articles:
According to a June 2023 report from the World Economic Forum, “China ranks 17 out of 120 countries on the [WEF’s 2023 Energy Transition Index] and is a new entrant in the top 20 countries.” True, the same report also notes that China, “is among the biggest producers and consumers of energy in the world while also being one of its biggest [greenhouse-gas] emitters, currently accounting for one-third of the total global GHG emissions.” But according to the Chinese Ministry of Ecology and Environment, China’s CO2 emissions per unit of GDP decreased by approximately 48.4% between 2005 and 2020, exceeding its commitment to achieve a 40-45% reduction. Moreover, China’s carbon intensity declined by another 3.8% in 2021, implying a reduction of more than 75% since 1990.
Such advances have been achieved through the aggressive use of alternative energy sources. In 2022, China added 152 million kilowatts of renewable-energy generation, accounting for 76.2% of the country’s new electricity capacity that year. Renewable-energy output reached 2.7 trillion kilowatt-hours, representing 31.6% of total electricity consumption, a 1.7 percentage point increase from 2021.
Not that those positive numbers come from the Chinese government, but at the same time there’s no doubt that they are building renewable energy plants aggressively.
So, yeah, I think the reason there are sometimes positive headlines about China where this is all concerned is because they’re a country that’s actually working on energy transition, and a non-democratic one at that.
Oh, and also, and I think you may have been thinking along those lines, there is also no doubt that a great many parts of the economic sector are pushing for a positive view on China because they’re making a lot of money by working with them. That’s absolutely part of all this.
Oh, and also, and I think you may have been thinking along those lines, there is also no doubt that a great many parts of the economic sector are pushing for a positive view on China because they’re making a lot of money by working with them. That’s absolutely part of all this.
That’s the weirdest part of all this. Apparently we’re about to go to war with China but our economies are completely integrated and Macron regularly goes to China to do new trade deals etc.
Yeah, it’s like those animals where you can’t tell if they’re fucking or killing each other.
Honestly at this point making sense of things seems senseless. Maybe we’re sick as a civilization, and maybe we’ve always been.
A wet, bedraggled Sunak is announcing a UK general election for 4 July outside Downing St. And throughout the entire announcement a protestor is managing to play Things Can Only Get Better (Labour’s election song from ’97) loud enough to get picked up clearly by his mic.
Fantastic work from whoever managed to set that up. Proper The Thick Of It stuff.
Why would Sunak do this now? Isn’t his party going to lose bigly with current numbers?
Why would Sunak do this now? Isn’t his party going to lose bigly with current numbers?
Probably an attempt to forestall an even bigger loss further down the line. And there are rumours floating around that he was facing a vote of no-confidence if he didn’t.
Why would Sunak do this now? Isn’t his party going to lose bigly with current numbers?
Probably an attempt to forestall an even bigger loss further down the line. And there are rumours floating around that he was facing a vote of no-confidence if he didn’t.
“Prime Minister Sunak, welcome aboard the Kobayashi Maru!”
It would be quite something if Netanyahu is arrested and the US invades the Hague to free him.
A wet, bedraggled Sunak is announcing a UK general election for 4 July outside Downing St. And throughout the entire announcement a protestor is managing to play Things Can Only Get Better (Labour’s election song from ’97) loud enough to get picked up clearly by his mic.
Fantastic work from whoever managed to set that up. Proper The Thick Of It stuff.
Did he forget that they have a multi-million pound media room in Downing Street with a convenient roof to keep rain out?