Political Discussion In The 20s

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#11024

Let’s reboot this thing. Have at thee.

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  • #16324

    Was Buttigieg the last moderate standing?

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by JRCarter.
  • #16330

    And Tom Steyer

    Steyer’s out.

    Which makes Biden the youngest male still in the running.

  • #16334

    I had to laugh at BBC’s coverage of the Syria conflict. The lady said “The head of NATO has called on Russia and Syria to halt what he’s called their indiscriminate air attacks after in Idlib province after 33 Turkish troops were killed.”

     

    33 Turkish troops. That’s not so indscriminate.

  • #16335

    Two old white men and a white woman with questionable Native American ancestry.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
  • #16396

    Amy Klobuchar ends presidential campaign

    1 user thanked author for this post.
  • #16399

    1 user thanked author for this post.
  • #16421

    Good morning. Welcome to the Monday Massacre.

    Mayor Pete out. Look to 2028, Petey, and learn about some chicken and waffles.  *Note: That does not mean The Waffle House. It mean Roscoe’s.)

    Amy Kloberum – Settling for the Vice Presidency? A playa.

    Tom Steyer – Some good ideas and a good heart, but at this juncture an outsider does not have a chance.

    Biden – Building from within, playing internal politics while not really delivering anything new or solid to the actual voters. He may have become the Lowest Common Denominator, and, if so, the only way the country will survive is by a solid choice of Veep.

    Tomorrow should be interesting. Especially Colorado’s vote, as it’s the first time we’ve had a voting primary in 20 years (as long as I’ve been here).

     

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  • #16430

    Ratboy and the Klob endorsing Joe Biden…interesting development.

     

  • #16434

    I think it’s pretty standard fare to be honest Arjan in leadership races. Once they feel they can’t win they stand aside and endorse the candidate closest to them politically. Otherwise all you do is split the vote in your area – in this case the ‘centrist’ section.

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  • #16436

    This isn’t really current politics, but we don’t have a thread for economics, and it does have political implications:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-51332811

    In 2015, the boss of a card payments company in Seattle introduced a $70,000 minimum salary for all of his 120 staff – and personally took a pay cut of $1m. Five years later he’s still on the minimum salary, and says the gamble has paid off.

    Since then, Gravity has transformed.

    The headcount has doubled and the value of payments that the company processes has gone from $3.8bn a year to $10.2bn.

    But Price did get a lot of flak. Along with hundreds of letters of support, and magazine covers labelling him “America’s best boss”, many of Gravity’s own customers wrote handwritten letters objecting to what they saw as a political statement.

    At the time, Seattle was debating an increase to the minimum wage to $15, making it the highest in the US at the time. Small business owners were fighting it, claiming they would go out of business.

    The right-wing radio pundit, Rush Limbaugh, whom Price had listened to every day in his childhood, called him a communist.
    “I hope this company is a case study in MBA programmes on how socialism does not work, because it’s going to fail,” he said.

    Two senior Gravity employees also resigned in protest. They weren’t happy that the salaries of junior staff had jumped overnight, and argued that it would make them lazy, and the company uncompetitive.

    This hasn’t happened.

    Price had hoped that Gravity’s example would lead to far-reaching changes in US business. He’s deeply disappointed and sad that this hasn’t happened.

    “Boy, was I wrong,” he says. “I’ve really failed in that regard. And it’s changed my perspective on things because I really believed that through the actions that I did and that other people could do, that we could turn the tide on runaway income inequality.”

    That seems like a good thing. With wages a lot depends on the living cost, I can imagine in some areas of the US 70,000 is a lot of money and in others it isn’t that much.

     

    When I worked for the power company here, we got a “profit sharing” a couple of times at the end of the year. aybe there could be a way to get more companies to do something like that.

  • #16448

    That seems like a good thing. With wages a lot depends on the living cost, I can imagine in some areas of the US 70,000 is a lot of money and in others it isn’t that much.   When I worked for the power company here, we got a “profit sharing” a couple of times at the end of the year. aybe there could be a way to get more companies to do something like that.

    It is a good example of the backwards thinking political ideology has. Often, in economic cases, right wing and left wing extremists advocate positions that are counter to the interests of the people, whether workers or owners, whose interests they think they speak for.

    Low wages and high cost of living reduce productivity because it stresses out the workforce. You can’t expect the best work from someone who’s worried they can’t pay their electricity bill and still buy groceries or who won’t go to the doctor when they’re sick because they just don’t have the money or can’t take any time off.

    I think Sanders doesn’t have the best ideas in this regard, actually, but he’s likely to be the only one of all the candidates who would implement the best ideas or listen to the arguments for the benefits of a low cost of living economy and how it actually increases competitiveness, personal savings and wealth and productivity.

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  • #16460

    the benefits of a low cost of living economy

    It seems the two big monetary issues for a lot of people are the high cost of their home, wether renting or owning, and health insurance. The article talks about a company in Seattle, which is a very expensive city to rent or buy a house.

     

    It would be difficult to drive down real estate cost, since it would take a lot of value out of the economy. A lot of home owners would suffer if the price of real estate went down. So it’s a difficult issue to solve.

  • #16461

    You can manipulate it to a degree though. The only way to do that is social housing, if you have a shortage you offer subsidised accommodation for the lowest earners. Since this takes a long time to put into place it doesn’t flood the market and tends to just flatten house prices rather than drive them sharply down, allowing it to readjust over time. So where prices have surged while wages remained relative stagnant you’d get the opposite effect, the priced remain stagnant as the wages catch up gradually.

    It’s been done before, I know it was used extensively in the UK in the 1960s without creating any negative equity or crisis in values of private properties.

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  • #16488

    It would be difficult to drive down real estate cost, since it would take a lot of value out of the economy. A lot of home owners would suffer if the price of real estate went down. So it’s a difficult issue to solve.

    It can be done – house values are irrelevant to a large chunk of owners. We often hear here that the median house price/value in Sydney is over a million dollars – homeowners might think that makes them millionaires, but if they sell, once they settle their mortgage and buy a new home, unless they move to a completely different part of town, the country, or the world, they’d likely be in exactly the same situation.

    Housing stock is a wildly popular investment choice but it’s a terrible one from a macro-economics perspective as it’s a non-productive asset. Staunch capitalists and free-marketeers should be outraged at the sheer volume of money tied up in housing, as for growth that money would be better invested in businesses or shares.

    It’s a tough balance too for a government – they have homeowners and investors on one side wanting house prices to keep going up so that their assets increase in value, and aspiring homeowners on the other desperately in need of affordable living. With the demographics how they are our governments tend to favour the former.

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  • #16493

    Looks like a very good night for Biden. Sanders will probably win California but Biden will still get a few delegates there.

     

    I don’t see Biden winning the presidential election…that is, not unless something out of the ordinary happens. If coronavirus hits the economy hard by the time of the election, they could try blaming Trump for it.

  • #16494

    Looks like a very good night for Biden. Sanders will probably win California but Biden will still get a few delegates there.

     

    I don’t see Biden winning the presidential election…that is, not unless something out of the ordinary happens. If coronavirus hits the economy hard by the time of the election, they could try blaming Trump for it.

    Trump will have the election postponed in the interests of public safety.

  • #16535

    Bloomberg is dropping out and endorsing Biden.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Todd.
  • #16536

    Bloomberg is dropping out and endorsing Biden.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Todd.

    money well spent there

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  • #16540

    Looks like a very good night for Biden. Sanders will probably win California but Biden will still get a few delegates there.

     

    I don’t see Biden winning the presidential election…that is, not unless something out of the ordinary happens. If coronavirus hits the economy hard by the time of the election, they could try blaming Trump for it.

    Trump will have the election postponed in the interests of public safety.

    My aunt is convinced of this.

  • #16556

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  • #16591

    What would happen if Biden dropped out for medical reasons during the primaries or the presidential election? Would the number 2 from the primaries take over, or could the Democratic party elect a replacement?

     

    I don’t wish Biden ill but he seems very confused, not necessarily dementia but it could be the starting phase.

  • #16603

    Biden is a terrible candidate to run against Trump. He has all of Hillary’s baggage plus more racism, he famously wants to cut Social Security, and he’s in sharp cognitive decline. His strategy for the last month or two has been to stay out of the public eye as much as possible because he keeps speaking gibberish and making bizarre gaffes like nibbling his wife’s finger on camera. Great candidate there, guys.

    It’s pretty clear the Dems would rather lose to Trump than win with Sanders. And if Biden does somehow manage to win, he’d be almost as terrible as Trump for the country and the world. For starters, he won’t implement the Green New Deal, and doing anything less at this point will have lethal consequences.

    Very depressing but I think Sanders still has a shot. An Elizabeth Warren endorsement would be nice right about now. If she endorses Joe Biden, that’s it for her, all her progressive cred goes out the window.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Will_C.
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  • #16605

    If Sanders win we’re not getting the green new deal or M4A either. In that regard it doesn’t matter who wins.

    though it is kind of ironic to see people calling Biden racist when he’s literally winning right now because of the African American vote.

  • #16606

    Biden’s history of racism is well documented, Rory.

  • #16607

    An Elizabeth Warren endorsement would be nice right about now. If she endorses Joe Biden, that’s it for her, all her progressive cred goes out the window.

     

    I kinda think the dems might be giving her some goodies to keep her running and keep votes away from Sanders.

     

  • #16609

    An Elizabeth Warren endorsement would be nice right about now. If she endorses Joe Biden, that’s it for her, all her progressive cred goes out the window.

     

    I kinda think the dems might be giving her some goodies to keep her running and keep votes away from Sanders.

     

    Yeah, that wouldn’t surprise me. If Warren doesn’t drop out and endorse Sanders, I’ll lose all the respect I once had for her and I’ll vote for anyone who primaries her here in MA as long as they’re to her left. I know Sanders took it to the convention in 2016 but it was a two-person race and he was winning states, Warren’s done no better than third place anywhere. The centrists coalesced around Biden, it’s time for our side to do the same.

    Here’s an article that goes over Biden’s racist past: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/joe-biden-record-on-busing-incarceration-racial-justice-democratic-primary-2020-explained.html

    The whole thing’s worth reading, but the bullet points are:

    – he fought integrating schools in the 70s

    – fought for mandatory minimums for drug offenders

    – advocated crack vs powder cocaine sentencing disparities

    – expanded death penalty

    – 1994 crime bill which he proudly calls the Biden crime bill

    – eliminated education funding for prisoners even though it’s proven to reduce recidivism

    – argued GHWB’s plan to ramp up war on drugs wasn’t harsh enough

    – used “super predator” myth, said black teen criminals couldn’t be rehabilitated

    – fondly remembers his work with segregationists Jesse Helms, James Eastland, and Strom Thurmond, who he eulogized

    – called Obama the first clean and articulate African-American to run for President

  • #16610

    Elizabeth Warren, Once a Front-Runner, Will Drop Out of Presidential Race

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  • #16611

    Biden’s history of racism is well documented, Rory.

    I didn’t say it wasn’t. I said he’s currently winning because of massive black turnout so it’s ironic.

  • #16612

    Bernie’s social security ad hit Biden hard a few weeks ago and it’s running again now (serious error on Sanders’s part to not keep it on the air before Super Tuesday). He’d be wise to cut another ad of Biden’s history of racist policies.

  • #16620

    While I really do think Biden would be a terrible choice, I don’t think he’s packing the same baggage as Hillary did. For one thing, a lot of people – on all sides of the US political spectrum, it seems – simply like him. Nobody liked Hillary.

    It’s strange to see it coming down to Biden vs. Sanders. That Sanders actually might win this just goes to show just how fed up people are with how things have been going for the last decades – Sanders stands for a radical change towards a gentler, kinder society in which people try to take care of each other. Seeing him go against Trump and his “Fuck the weak” credo would be quite a spectacle, and maybe it would show the true essence of the US more than any other duel.

    We live in interesting times.

    It’s pretty clear the Dems would rather lose to Trump than win with Sanders. And if Biden does somehow manage to win, he’d be almost as terrible as Trump for the country and the world. For starters, he won’t implement the Green New Deal, and doing anything less at this point will have lethal consequences.

    Yup. I agree.

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  • #16623

    And he occasionally seems completely off his rocker. I know Trump isn’t always the most lucid, but really I think Biden is worse.

  • #16626

    Another Presidential election becomes battle of the old white dudes.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
  • #16627

    And he occasionally seems completely off his rocker. I know Trump isn’t always the most lucid, but really I think Biden is worse.

    As a stutterer, some of that is genuinely down to his stutter. Biden’s defenders bring his stutter up a lot to defend him but from my POV it only accounts for a small percentage of his gaffes. A lot of what he says is just weird, not all of it can be attributed to hitting a block in your speech and having to come up with a different phrasing that’s easier to say on the fly. Compare speeches and debate performances from 2008 and 2012 to now and the decline is obvious.

  • #16628

    I might just be a simple hyperchicken, but last I heard, Sanders still had more Delegates than Biden?  And where I come from, that seems to mean he’s still winning.

    Even if it is a close thing right now.

  • #16630

    Biden has a 60-delegate lead:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/biden-increases-delegate-lead-over-sanders-after-more-allocated-texas-n1150476

  • #16635

    I sit corrected then

  • #16636

    Bernie is not out yet, a lot of the polls for the remaining states seem to give him a good chance. We’ll see what happens.

     

    I don’t have a clue why someone would vote Biden though. Jim liked him but he’s not here so he can’t explain it.

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  • #16637

    Yeah it’s close, and CA’s delegates haven’t all been allocated yet.

  • #16639

    This stupod primary is stupid. Its going to be about digging up crap from the padt for both candidates at thus stage.

    I know everyone loves Bernie here and hates Biden but I just want Trump to lose. I think thinking alpng the lines of “centrists” and “far left” in the Democratic party is going to hurt everyone in the long run.

    These guys should just get together and flip a coin over the vp spot.

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  • #16640

    It’s telling about the state of affairs that centrist has become a slur. I think we need more centrism.

     

    (But universal healthcare and decent social security should be a centrist policy.)

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  • #16644

    Yeah this really feels to me like Democrats are gearing up to shoot themselves in the foot no matter who goes into the GE. I can see a large portion of Bernie fans whinging about establishment politics and staying home in november and likewise for upper middle-class Dems on Bernie.

    Arjan, Tulsi is still in it, maybe she can sweep in as the unity candidate.

    I don’t think Biden is the fucking devil like some do here.  Both candidates are problematic. Neither is perfect.  Just please don’t blow a hole through the next four years because you didn’t get your way

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    Ben
  • #16645

    Arjan, Tulsi is still in it, maybe she can sweep in as the unity candidate.

    It’s not entirely impossible that both Bernie and Biden die from old age before the end of the primary…Tulsi is the savior America needs but doesn’t deserve!

  • #16646

    Candidates’ pasts are fair game, especially if it informs their present thinking. Biden’s a mass deporter who prides himself on his conservatism and still thinks fondly about working alongside virulent racists, how do we think he’s gonna govern?

    It says a lot about Sanders that he’s been under the microscope since 2016 and the best his opponents can come up with is that he praised Castro’s literacy programs and wrote a cringey essay on gender roles in the 70s.*

    *That essay’s really been overblown, btw. Margaret Atwood wrote a short story called “Rape Fantasies” in the 70s about the same subject. Rigid gender roles warping women’s sexuality was a common theme in second-wave feminism, so Bernie’s essay, badly written as it is, just shows he was up to date with feminist discourse.

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  • #16652

    Sure – but what do the facts say?

    Im not sure I care to be honest and Im not sure you would either. You and Lorcan have clearly picked your horse and at this point dissent is unlikely to read with you. That seems to be the case for most people and it could be problematic.

    Not picking fights, just calling it how I see it. I think ill stick to Pod Saves America for informed commentary and post mortems.

    I do think theres a degree of marketing bullshit to Bidens campaign – something a little disingenuous but that is campaigning writ large. Ill look to their policy platforms to see how well they align or are completely incongrous to my values.

  • #16656

    I’m just gonna say that I think it’s far from a sure bet that Bernie beats Trump, but I think he’s a much stronger candidate to run against Trump than Biden (who I strongly dislike but don’t think of as the devil, btw). Trump would eviscerate Biden in the general.

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  • #16657

    I dont disagree entirely but im not convinced either. It remains to be seen. Both have potentially insurmountable challenges on the road to an election.

    At the end of the day its about the ECs and the democrats really need to galvanise over whoever becomes the candidate because this season has been brutal with infighting.

    Also, Im fucking hating the huge thanks text. It really makes your allegiances too well known on this board. I dont think im really saying anything unreasonable here but I feel like youre demonstrably voting me down Lorcan because im not orgasming over Bernie!

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  • #16660

    It’s telling about the state of affairs that centrist has become a slur. I think we need more centrism.

     

    (But universal healthcare and decent social security should be a centrist policy.)

    The problem with this statement is that you’ve basically declared that the centre is good, and the policies you agree with should be centrist.

    The centre should be the result of good faith negotiation between left and right wing elements in government, rather than a specific set of beliefs a person holds.  What’s the centrist position between pro-choice and anti-choice? Between LGBT rights and criminalising homosexuality?

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  • #16661

    Which is why it’s pretty silly to call Biden a centrist if that’s your standard. He’s on the left of those questions.

  • #16662

    Arjan, Tulsi is still in it, maybe she can sweep in as the unity candidate.

    It’s not entirely impossible that both Bernie and Biden die from old age before the end of the primary…Tulsi is the savior America needs but doesn’t deserve!

    Tulsi fucked up when she backed Trump on firing Vindman:
    Tulsi Gabbard Defends Donald Trump Firing Alexander Vindman: ‘Whether People Like It or Not, There Are Consequences to Elections’

    That was a really stupid thing to do.

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  • #16663

    Which is why it’s pretty silly to call Biden a centrist if that’s your standard. He’s on the left of those questions.

    What’s the left of those positions?

    I should point out though that I picked those two because they’re fairly simple binary choices on the surface, and when you actually drill down into how laws regarding them have been applied, it’s frequently been a compromise position, and often a shitty one at that.  Or situations where an allegedly left-leaning party has given up ground to the right in the name of claiming a mythical centre ground.

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  • #16665

    Those are two examples and Biden’s not even stringently in favor of abortion!

    Biden’s backed by corporate donors, voted for the Iraq war, wants to cut social security, is gonna do dick about climate change, floated picking a GOP running mate, deported and drone-bombed thousands along with Obama–these are either center-left or center-right positions.

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  • #16666

    He’s also running one of the most progressive policy platforms ever in the history of the Democratic party.  Second obviously to Bernie and Warren.   That’s because they have to.  Because that’s the way the party has moved.  It’s not Clinton’s Neo-Con party.  The Dems are more progressive now then they were under Obama but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re all the way to Bernie.

    I would love to see the Green New Deal pass but I am absolutely in no way convinced that either Biden or Sanders would get it through without major changes.  I love the romanticism of revolutionary thinking, but sometimes it is a bit romantic and you have to approach things pragmatically and that’s politics.  Both candidates have problems when it comes to this approach.  Both candidates do and both candidates will.  I’m not saying sacrifice your values; I’m saying find a way to make your values work pragmatically within a tortured political system.

    I’m sticking to my guns here.  Neither candidate is perfect, but if you’re a Democrat, you should be voting for either one come November.  Neither one is guaranteed to pass their policies.

    If you’re not, and it’s because you liked one or the other, I think you need to really look at their policy platforms closely and work out what exactly is the element that’s making you push back on the other candidate, and ask yourself if it matters so much as to forfeit your right to vote.

    If I were to vote I’d have no idea who I would vote for.  I’d be looking for the candidate that can potentially turn the Senate blue, to be honest.

  • #16671

    I don’t think anyone here is arguing for what you seem to be arguing against, Tim.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by lorcan_nagle.
  • #16673

    I’m glad of that.  I suppose when it becomes about viscerally tearing down one candidate to prop yours up it sometimes looks like you might not want to vote for the other guy altogether, even if they’re on the same team.

  • #16674

    Yeah, I mean I’ll vote for Biden if he’s the nominee. I don’t want the Supreme Court getting any more conservative.

  • #16675

    Has anyone done the math on the Electoral Colleges if there’s a stronger path for Bernie or Biden?

    Maybe Nate Simpson? If so is there a link because I find fivethirtyeight hard to navigate.

  • #16679

    I’m glad of that.  I suppose when it becomes about viscerally tearing down one candidate to prop yours up it sometimes looks like you might not want to vote for the other guy altogether, even if they’re on the same team.

    It’s worth noting that the narrative around that is far overblown, especially when it comes to Sanders – a larger percentage of his supporters voted for Clinton in the 2016 presidential election than Clinton’s did for Obama in 2008

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  • #16681

    That doesn’t necessarily mean all that much in 2020 but I take your point.

    I do hear a lot of talk about Bernie or Bust stuff (aparently Twitter is quite catty with it). It is obviously bullshit, and if the narrative is overblown then it should be extinguished alltogether because those sorts of ideas should not gain traction.

  • #16687

    Has anyone done the math on the Electoral Colleges if there’s a stronger path for Bernie or Biden?

    Maybe Nate Simpson? If so is there a link because I find fivethirtyeight hard to navigate.

    There’s a paucity of info. Still could be either.

    Maybe Nate Silver will have further analysis later.

  • #16688

    Oh yeah, i meant Silver.

  • #16689

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  • #16690

    And another one gone

    And another one gone

    another one bites the dust.

    This is the same tired old Dem shit, internecine warfare that serves only for the Party to shoot itself in the foot. Know who uses “splitting”, in the psychological sense, as a major weapon? People with borderline personality disorders and malignant narcissists. Y’know what stops them from being successful at splitting their parents? (Okay, Party. We’ll keep it on politics.) Logic and truth.  Strong ego boundaries in the intended victim that simply does not allow that to happen and confronts the issue directly.

    Confront the issue directly. That seems to be the problem.

    And distraction. How very tidy for a virus arising in China (of all places) tearing attention away from voting and fearmongering with epic haste. I am already so sick of all the panic ninnies stripping stores of Purel, paper goods, canned goods and so on – and not one fucking minute trying to learn some basic medicine so the panic would seems totally unnecessary. Or, at the very least, incredibly premature. 18,000 influenza deaths in the US alone this flu season, some 3,000 world-wide from COVID-19. And yet the babble increases, the flu continues to be scorned and ignored, and improper and expensive measures are being taken by individuals and government.  I’m already tired of flapping my gums about this, and it’s been what? A month? Okay, it jumped species and became airborne. I’m impressed. That is what virii do, after all. That’s how they survive. Can we out-think a virus? I’m beginning to doubt it

     

  • #16695

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primary-forecast/

  • #16696

    Oh yeah, i meant Silver.

    I know you did. I’d thank that and your other posts but it feels like I’m shouting at you.

    It’s all too easy to focus on all the angry shouty opinions online. It’s easy to forget that, especially in rural areas with patchy wifi, a lot of voters don’t and can’t afford to have much of an online presence. Clinton made the mistake of forgetting the importance of personal presence in regions taken for granted. Meanwhile there are campaigners operating at the grassroots level going doorstep to doorstep and quietly making a blue difference.

  • #16697

    Things are currently looking very bad for Sanders. Next Tuesday will basically make clear if he has any chance of winning. His current problem is twofold. He bet big on young voters making a strong showing but they’re voting at lower levels than 2016. Also in all the previous primaries the liberal lanes only got about 40-45% of the vote. That was fine when the moderate lane was split up between 3 or 4 candidates but not so much now that it’s 1 to 1. If Sanders is to have any hope of winning Super Tuesday needs to have been a wake up call for younger voters and they need to start showing up en mass.

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  • #16700
    1. Pro-life vs pro-choice is not as binary as it seems to be. Is someone who thinks that abortion for a woman who didn’t want to be pregnant but had consensual unprotected sex is wrong, but if there is even a doubt that the mother’s mental or physical health is endangered if she brings it to full term, to deny her an abortion is worse than a forced abortion, and given that allowing abortion in the case of doubt that the mother’s mental or physical health is endangered (but if she takes the risk, that’s her  choice) if she brings it to full term is an ethical inperitive, and a lot of people might not see a legitimate danger in some cases, so even unethical abortion should be legal, to protect those that are ethical,pro-life or pro-choice?
  • #16706

    There’s been some back and forth between the Pod Save America guys and the Chapo guys. The Chapo stance certainly is outwardly Bernie or Bust; literally “If Sanders is not the nominee we won’t vote in November” – it could just be a campaigning tactic, but it could also very well be their intent. They “dunked” on Jon Lovett, reminding him that he encouraged Warren to undertake the DNA test that probably didn’t help things.

    I press them, or their supporters, on the privilege inherent in this stance, but their view is things will be worse under Biden (or Warren) than under Trump.

    They’re also more and more often readily declaring that Sanders is already a compromise candidate; that is, even if he were to win they would continue to press the government to move further left (it’s valid; the Sanders stance includes a lot of things that are standard centre-left policy the world over – it’s hardly Cuba).

  • #16717

    Yeah the Pod Saves America had a subtle reference to it on their most recent one.

    I largely think theyre very even handed but it sounds like they get savaged on twitter if they say anything even remotely derisory about someones candidate.

    Bloomberg excepted whom they openly acknowledge does not belong.

    Its clearly very ugly group think and a large part of what my previous comments were directed at.

  • #16727
    1. Pro-life vs pro-choice is not as binary as it seems to be. Is someone who thinks that abortion for a woman who didn’t want to be pregnant but had consensual unprotected sex is wrong, but if there is even a doubt that the mother’s mental or physical health is endangered if she brings it to full term, to deny her an abortion is worse than a forced abortion, and given that allowing abortion in the case of doubt that the mother’s mental or physical health is endangered (but if she takes the risk, that’s her  choice) if she brings it to full term is an ethical inperitive, and a lot of people might not see a legitimate danger in some cases, so even unethical abortion should be legal, to protect those that are ethical,pro-life or pro-choice?

    I don’t know but you do win this week’s prize for the longest and most unreadable sentence.

    3 users thanked author for this post.
  • #16729

    I believe it reads:

    Vote blue no matter who

    1 user thanked author for this post.
  • #16744

    Things are currently looking very bad for Sanders.

    He can always decide to be a third party candidate and run against Trump and Biden in the real election. I believe they call that “Nadering” the vote.

    I find Sanders’ campaign seems much clearer than Biden’s. I can understand the thinking behind it while Biden seems just vaguely positive with nothing he can be held to when he’s president. However, that is the same approach Trump took and he won the GOP nomination and President mostly by accident.

    The public reaction to the covid19 has also changed or destabilized social responses as well, so it does give the Democratic party a better chance of winning the election whether Biden or Sanders is the nominee. It also makes Biden a lot more attractive. When there is general anxiety in the nation, and the world, it dampens the desire for radical change. Instead, people look for safe and stable, though both candidates seem like goofballs to me. Nevertheless, Biden is labeled “moderate” and Bernie is a “radical.”

    Still, we’re living in the best time to have these problems.

     

  • #16745

    How is “pro-life” the opposite of “pro-choice”? These are two different issues. How many “pro-life” anti-abortion activists are also anti-death penalty activists?

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  • #16748

    How is “pro-life” the opposite of “pro-choice”? These are two different issues. How many “pro-life” anti-abortion activists are also anti-death penalty activists?

    It’s a rhetorical trick.  Anti-abortion activists started calling themselves “pro-life” to imply that the other side were “anti-life”, but also because people are naturally more likely to gravitate to your cause if you frame it as positive.   Pro-choice was then self-selected by the side campaigning for reproductive rights in response because it was seen as being more accurate (we don’t want everyone to have abortions, just the people who want or need them).

    1 user thanked author for this post.
  • #16770

    So the two sides are pro-choice and anti-choice, which actually makes sense in describing the mindset of the two camps.

    Besides, “Anti-Life” reeks of Darkseid.

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  • #16773

    Besides, “Anti-Life” reeks of Darkseid.

    Not to be confused with Anty Life, which was Hank Pym.

    2 users thanked author for this post.
  • #16775

    A lot of pro-choice activists use “anti-choice” to describe pro-lifers, which is how it should be.

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  • #16824

    Image result for trump illuminati

    Well, this happened.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51778781

     

  • #16830

    https://thehill.com/homenews/media/486288-brian-williams-nyts-gay-roasted-over-math-flub-saddest-clip-in-tv-history

     

    Honestly this is of course completely stupid, but I think a lot of people have problems comprehending these kinds of numbers. Never mind billions and trillions. How much (or how little) it is.

     

     

     

  • #16832

    Yeah I mean the presenters there are being plain dumb but it’s a good point that people start to struggle to fully take in when numbers are huge. There’s been an effort recently to get people to fully understand the large gap between a million and a billion using dates, along these lines:

    It was a massive problem with the argument against Brexit, their sole point of attack was on billions in investment on GDP percentages. That’s never going to resonate with the majority of voters.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by garjones.
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  • #16837

    I read an article years ago (it may have been New Scientist, I don’t remember) that suggested we started talking about large sums of money in a new unit called the Peoplepound.

    One peoplepound is one pound sterling divided by the population of the UK.

    So for example, “WE SEND £350M TO THE EU” would be reported as, “We send 5.80 Peoplepounds to the EU, or slightly less than the cost of a latte and a biscuit.”

    And you’re suddenly thinking, you know what, I spend that every morning on a latte and a biscuit, it’s not that much.

    “UK’S GPD £130 BILLION LOWER DUE TO TO BREXIT” becomes, “”We’ve lost 2000 Peoplepounds from our bank account”

    OMG £2000 wiped out, that’s horrendous!

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by DavidM.
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  • #16840

    Im looking forward to the next debate. Biden isnt a great debater but neither is Bernie, really (statesmen yes, debater no, sorry Will). Its an opportunity for both to spell out their appeal over the other.

    Tulsi probably needs to accept defeat at this stage.

  • #16841

    Tangentially relevant

    https://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/504065/america-post-christianity/

    1 user thanked author for this post.
  • #16843

    Yeah I mean the presenters there are being plain dumb but it’s a good point that people start to struggle to fully take in when numbers are huge. There’s been an effort recently to get people to fully understand the large gap between a million and a billion using dates, along these lines:

    It was a massive problem with the argument against Brexit, their sole point of attack was on billions in investment on GDP percentages. That’s never going to resonate with the majority of voters.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by garjones.

     

    I think in the US system these days, in Dutch 1 biljoen is actually the American 1 trillion.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales#Long_scale_users

  • #16844

    I think in the US system these days, in Dutch 1 biljoen is actually the American 1 trillion.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales#Long_scale_users%5B/quote%5D

     

    We used to use the long billion in the UK too, but the official standard is now the short billion. I blame the EU for the change. Wait — if it’s the EU then why don’t the Dutch have to change??? IS BLAMING THE EU JUST A LIE?????

     

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by DavidM.
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  • #16846

    Its an opportunity for both to spell out their appeal over the other.

    The Battle of the Boomers

    1 user thanked author for this post.
  • #16852

    I blame the EU for the change. Wait — if it’s the EU then why don’t the Dutch have to change???

    Yeah, no, we all use the long scale here in the EU. This is the Yankees taking you over.

  • #16862

    On a similar note to Gar’s infographic, someone on TikTok demonstrated Jeff Bezos’ fortune in rice grains.

    https://www.tiktok.com/@humphreytalks/video/6796564670481190150

    https://www.tiktok.com/@humphreytalks/video/6798276393634467077

    (not sure if TikTok videos will embed here or not).

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Martin Smith.
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  • #16902

    This article rips apart Biden’s supposed electability:

    https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/03/democrats-you-really-do-not-want-to-nominate-joe-biden/

    Read the whole thing. It would be so irresponsible to run this guy against Trump.

  • #16910

    That was an incredibly condescending and nonsense article. I gave up a third of the way through because it was just a laundry list of things he didn’t like about Biden and wasn’t addressing electability at all.

  • #16913

    From the beginning of the article:

    I am going to give you a very strong argument for why this is not the case, and Biden is not, in fact, the most “electable” of the two candidates. But first, and because it will ultimately be relevant to the electability question, I actually want to start with a different question. First let’s ask: which candidate would we choose if we felt they had the same chance of beating Trump? What if we were just picking the person we thought would make the best president? Who can we trust with power? Who is honest and principled? Let’s compare the candidates on these grounds first, and then I will discuss the ramifications for the “electability” issue. I’ll show why the answer to the question “Who would make the best president?” affects the answer to “Who would make the best candidate?”

    He makes the electability argument after going into Biden’s history.

    And c’mon, the writer gives a laundry list of awful, well-sourced things Biden’s done in his 40 years in politics, not just things he doesn’t “like.” We’re talking about championing mass incarceration and working with segregationists and being handsy with women. I’d be curious though to hear which of Biden’s skeletons he brought up you think are nonsense. Let’s shine a light on them!

  • #16914

    No one was discussing this stuff when he was VP.

    I mean, if you really think Biden wants to overturn Roe v Wade as the article posits , then I agree he should not be the nominee.

    That is not the case though. That isnt what his recent policies on pro choice suggest.

  • #16917

    Trump’s sure gonna address it in the general. And has already started to.

  • #16918

    Fun!

  • #16919

    The article mentions Roe v Wade once and says this about it:

    Since 1974, when Biden gave the rather shocking quote that he “didn’t think a woman had the sole right to say what happened to her body,” Biden’s record on women’s issues has been deeply disappointing. In the 1980s, he voted to let states overturn Roe v. Wade, which the National Abortion Rights Action League said was “the most devastating attack yet on abortion rights.” In 2006, Biden described himself as an “odd man out” among Democrats on abortion because he held a more conservative position than Planned Parenthood/NOW, and said abortion was “always a tragedy” and that “we should be focusing on how to limit the number of abortions.” In 2019, he was still saying he supported the Hyde Amendment banning federal funding of abortion, which Toni Van Pelt, head of the National Organization for Women, called a “shocking,” “unacceptable,” and “unsupportable” position. The NOW president did not mince words: Anyone without clear opposition to Hyde “should consider leaving the race… the girls and women of our nation deserve better.” Last year, Biden’s spokesman “declined to detail Mr. Biden’s current views on specific policies he once supported, including banning all federal funding for abortion services and research.” Finally, Biden succumbed to pressure and reversed his position, having had to be forced by decades of activism.

    The writer does not say Biden will try and overturn Roe v Wade, just that he’s a very poor champion of abortion rights.

  • #16922

    Sure, but if I were to ask you if you agreed with the people criticising Sanders on his past with gun control, I think you would say ‘no, he has changed’ but I dont think youd allow yourself the same concessuon for Biden on that.

    I dont really think most voters care about votes cast 40 years ago. Im sure it will be raised on the debate stage but its not like Biden has no response.

    Neither would Bernie on some of his past history.

    I think the article employs a bit of System 1 thinking over System 2, which is what i want from political analysis, so i didnt love it.

  • #16924

    Looking at the current president, I’m pretty sure that this will make no difference to Biden’s electability.

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  • #16927

    Yeah, I dont think the swing voters will really care about Bidens past.

    I think the Sanders supporters do so I hope they dont stay home if Biden is the nominee…

    *looks at dead horse*
    *beats the fuck out of it*

  • #16928

    It’s a long article and most people probably aren’t gonna read it but it raises a lot more points against Biden than a few 40-year-old votes and his weakness on abortion (which, btw, includes supporting the Hyde ammendment as recently as last year!).

    To your point, though, Bernie’s changed drastically on gun control whereas Biden has not changed many of his views, and the ones he has haven’t changed drastically, and there’s no real proof in his record that he will fight on the just side of issues like abortion, mass incarceration, climate change, war, etc.

    Can you make the case he’ll fight for what’s right? Let’s just pick one issue, the most important: climate change. Biden got a D- from Greenpeace and an F from the Sunrise Movement on climate. He will not do what we need, and right now doing too little is the same as doing nothing. Seriously, moderates are now just as dangerous on climate as the right. Maybe worse, because they believe the science and yet think stuff like offering incentives to corporations will cut it.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
  • #16929

    No, neither will be able to pass any version of the Green New Deal unless the senate turns blue.

    To be honest, I prefer Bernies political philosophy, but I dont know if the coalition behind him can do that.

  • #16931

    Looking at the current president, I’m pretty sure that this will make no difference to Biden’s electability.

    What do you mean by “this”?

    If it’s the abortion issue Tim brought up, it’s not a major factor in the electabiliy argument. The writer mentioned it in the first section, which comes before the electability section, to show how Biden’s a poor proponent of left values.

    I’m just gonna post the electability section despite its length:

    ***************

    Okay, you say: I admit that Joe Biden has a history of showing egregiously poor judgment on nearly every political issue I care about, fabricating his biography to make himself look good, defending the worst Republicans, and actively doing harm to progressive causes. I admit Bernie does not share Biden’s history of telling outrageous lies, undermining women and LGBT people, and sidling up to banks, insurance companies, and the fossil fuel industry. But I still think Biden is the best candidate to run against Trump. He’s simply more electable. 

    Now, to me this seems a little counterintuitive: I’d think it would be quite difficult to run someone as uninspiring and untrustworthy as Biden, because it would make it tough to convince Americans that that person would be a good president. When Joe Biden tries to point out that Donald Trump is a serial liar with bad judgment and a history of being creepy and corrupt, Trump will just say that the same things are true about Biden. It will be difficult to draw a clear contrast of character, and Biden has built his central case against Trump around their supposed contrasting characters! To me, you’d be better off running the person you think makes the best potential president, because it will be easier to make the case that they are the best potential president.

    In fact, isn’t it a little strange that all of the above qualities don’t affect people’s thinking about Biden’s “electability”? Surely taking ignorant, unprincipled positions and lying about them is something that’s going to come up. I’ve separated discussion of the “electability” question from the question of whether Biden would be good as a chief executive, but I actually think those questions are one and the same: Voters are going to think about these things when they decide who to vote for. It’s harder to run someone who lied about doing sit-ins than someone who actually sat in, because those fictions will be exposed and they will turn people off. Every single thing I’ve mentioned—from Hunter Biden’s consulting gig with the credit card companies pushing Joe Biden to strip consumer bankruptcy protection to African Americans victimized by Biden’s punitive drug sentencing—is going to be put in ads run against Biden, and Trump has hundreds of millions of dollars to blast those ads far and wide. They will be effective, because they will be correct. And if you do not think Trump would run ads criticizing Biden on behalf of incarcerated African Americans, you do not know Trump: He’s already been doing exactly that.

    To Democrats, it may be self-evident that Joe Biden is far better than Donald Trump, and so they assume that all the bad things he has done will not matter to anyone. Any Democrat in the White House is better than Trump, I hear a lot, and I agree with it. But if you are going to make a clear and powerful case against Trump, you need to be free of the kinds of dirt that are going to muddy your case. If we’re going to point out that the president has been accused by dozens of women of inappropriate touching, we don’t want that message to come from someone who themselves has been accused of inappropriate touching (and who said they are “not sorry” for it). If we’re going to accuse the president of being reckless and warlike, we don’t want the argument being made by a candidate who pushed the most reckless war in the last several decades. If we’re going to accuse Trump of being corrupt, we don’t want a candidate who has done the bidding of the credit card companies while his son took a cushy job with them. If we’re going to call Trump out for separating families, we don’t want a candidate who deported hundreds of thousands of people themselves, and if we’re going to call Trump a racist, we don’t want a candidate who was best friends with segregationists and helped build modern racist policing and imprisonment regime. As with Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden’s record is so bad that he’s unable to effectively attack Trump on the areas where Trump is most vulnerable. This is one reason Biden has to resort to simply attacking Trump’s “character” and his “malarkey”—but as I’ve pointed out, Biden himself is of poor character and half of what comes out his mouth is malarkey! He’s exactly the sort of corrupt, sleazy insider politician D.C. is full of, and who we need to get rid of if we’re going to advance the cause of justice.

    In fact, the parallels with Clinton are striking. As this magazine pointed out in early 2016, Clinton was a uniquely weak candidate against Donald Trump, because she had the kind of record on issues like trade, war, and Wall Street that his “populist” campaign could hit an “establishment” politician hard on. She was the perfect foil for his message, because she embodied the D.C. insider culture he was trying to whip up hate against. Trump thrives on dirt and scandal, and Clinton was tainted by enough corruption and misconduct allegations that he had an easy time landing blows. Mehdi Hasan puts things very well when he says:

    I just don’t get why Democrats… think that you can just rerun the 2016 playbook and not think that Donald Trump will rerun his. I mean, they tried to run a pro-Iraq War, pro-Wall Street, establishment Democrat with a history of dubious claims and dodgy dealings and dodgy comments about mass incarceration and superpredators. Where did that end up? What’s the old saying? Insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results.

    Indeed, Biden shares many of Clinton’s exact weaknesses. He voted for NAFTA, the “bad trade deal” Trump loves to attack for shipping Rust Belt jobs overseas. (Sure enough, Trump has already started bringing up NAFTA.) Biden is a creature of the “swamp” that Trump has vowed to drain, a pal of lobbyists and bankers. (The New York Times even called his staff “more than a bit swampy.”) And then, of course, there is the corruption. Ryan Grim of the Intercept reports that Biden’s “family has been cashing in on his career for decades,” something Democrats have not wanted to admit. Biden “has not even bothered to come up with a persuasive answer to his son Hunter’s involvement with the Ukrainian energy company Burisma.” Even pro-Biden centrists like Jonathan Chait admit that “Biden’s responses to questioning on his son’s role, which range from challenging his interlocutor to a push-up contest to trailing off awkwardly, have hardly allayed the concern.” As Eric Levitz put it, “Hunter collecting $50,000 a month to sit on a board for which he had no qualifications was clearly corrupt influence peddling.” Hunter Biden and Joe Biden’s stories are in conflict, too: Joe Biden says he never discussed it with his son, while Hunter says they did talk about it and all Joe said by way of objection wasI hope you know what you’re doing.”

    If you’re a Democrat, you probably don’t want to hear about any of this. Let’s be honest: Many Democrats are simply lying to themselves and pretending that Biden is someone other than who he is. (A Detroit Free Press editorial says Biden has “occasional lapses of judgment but not of character” and is as “innocent of venality as any politician in Washington.” As if pretending to have been a civil rights hero is not a “lapse in character”! And as if we didn’t all know how disgustingly venal most Washington politicians are.) But brace yourself, because in a general election, you’re going to hear about all of this all the goddamn time for months on end. And you’re going to wince as Biden struggles to come up with an explanation of what Hunter’s role at the Ukrainian energy company was, or responds by challenging honest critics to a push-up contest. (Expect to hear the phrase “Quid Pro Joe” about 10 billion times. Also, if you haven’t heard of Jim Biden, get ready: you will.)

    One worrying thing we’ve learned about Biden over the course of this election is that he needs to be kept away from voters. Not many show up at his events in the first place, but when they do, his interactions with them are often excruciating. He has told them to go vote for his opponent. (In Iowa, 85 percent followed his advice.) He even called one young woman a “lying dog faced pony soldier” after she asked him a tough question. She was horrified:

    “It was kind of humiliating to be called a liar on national TV by the former vice president. Instead of answering that question straightforward, his immediate response was to attempt to invalidate me by exposing my inexperience.”

    The Biden campaign’s response is that Biden was attempting to quote a movie, which explains nothing and makes no sense. Get ready for a hell of a lot more of this in a general election, and get ready for Donald Trump to mercilessly mock and repeat every single Biden misstep. (Often by turning Biden’s indefensible acts into amusing memes.) Trump’s specialty is brutal attacks on DC politicians, which he does with a knack for entertainment that those who come out of the Senate instead of television can hardly hope to match.

    I’m actually something of an amateur Trump scholar, and one thing I have found many Democrats do not sufficiently understand about him is that Trump is a genuinely formidable political opponent who is good at crushing the weak. Trump packs stadiums and is bringing in campaign cash in the hundreds of millions. It should be of serious concern, then, that even though Biden has ultimately been able to consolidate centrist voters behind him, his fundraising has been anemic, his events poorly-attended, and his on-the-ground campaign apparatus bare bones. Until Democratic leaders rallied around to revive him, Biden “had less than a third as much cash on hand as Bernie Sanders” and was doing so poorly that he eventually had “to abandon his pledge to not accept support from corporate-backed outside super PAC groups.” One reason for this is that Biden doesn’t inspire confidence; even Barack Obama was reportedly nervous about running him in the primary. Democrats might be resigned to putting Joe Biden up against Donald Trump, feeling they have few other options, but you won’t meet many who are excited for his campaign, and he’s hardly likely to build a grassroots movement of volunteers and donors in the fall.

    To make matters worse, Joe Biden does not seem to be in excellent form at the moment, to say the least. The more people see of him, the worse he looks. The gaffes, always a Biden trait, have become near-constant: forgetting the first words of the Declaration of Independence (“We hold these truths to be self-evident… you know, you know the thing”), forgetting which office he is running for, forgetting Barack Obama’s name, forgetting that the Parkland shootings did not happen while he was in office, mixing up his wife and his sister, and telling bizarre, rambling stories that make Grandpa Simpson look like a man who gets straight to the point. This may well be why his advisors had to keep him from doing too many public events, preferring quiet private fundraisers to rallies and town halls. Biden surrogate John Kerry was reportedly making desperate calls from Iowa, telling Democrats that Biden wasn’t up to it, and wondering if Kerry could step in to replace Biden on the ticket. Other Biden-sympathetic Democratic officials on the ground said Biden didn’t “seem to have his heart in it or the energy for the slog.” The disgraced Chris Matthews, no Bernie sympathizer, criticized the Biden campaign for hiding the candidate from the press, and the New York Times chased Biden for months to answer some basic questions. Even now, in the wake of Biden’s big Super Tuesday resurgence, Rachel Maddow has struggled to get him to appear on her show alongside the other candidates.

    This should be a giant red flag. If Biden is not in peak fighting shape, he will lose and lose badly. Donald Trump is the King of the Bullies. When he senses weakness, he pounces. You need to have boundless energy and stamina and fire to counteract him. And they can’t hide Biden away forever. Sooner or later, if you’re running for president, you’re going to have to make some appearances. It is not a good sign if your allies are suggesting you scale back events so that voters don’t accidentally hear you speak off the cuff.

    Democrats do not want to talk about the question of whether Biden is up for this. And none of us want to say the word “dementia” when we don’t actually know whether that’s true. Politico reports that journalists have shied away from answering the question of whether Biden is mentally capable of his task. But it’s a serious issue: If you choose a nominee who is going to embarrass themselves in front of the country, you’ve just thrown the entire election. It’s a colossal risk. We can’t not confront it, because Trump is coming. Trump has already begun to bring up Biden’s mental health, noting that Biden “said 150 million people were killed with guns and that he was running for the United States Senate.” (Biden did say both these things.) Trump will compile all of the flubs, go through them in excruciating detail at his rallies, and talk about how sad it is to see someone in such obvious decline. He will compare Joe Biden’s brain to the Democratic Party itself, and will ask why anyone would want someone in charge of the country who cannot be trusted to remember who the Prime Minister of Great Britain is. It will not be easy to answer this question.

    Be ready for what is going to come at Biden in a general election. Just look at Trump’s tweets for a preview of what we’re going to see:

    • I will protect your Social Security and Medicare, just as I have for the past 3 years. Sleepy Joe Biden will destroy both in very short order, and he won’t even know he’s doing it!
    • Super Predator was the term associated with the 1994 Crime Bill that Sleepy Joe Biden was so heavily involved in passing. That was a dark period in American History, but has Sleepy Joe apologized? No!

    Do you think “Sleepy Joe” is up to the challenge of proving Trump wrong? Probably not even on a good day, because Biden’s record on Social Security and criminal punishment is not defensible and gives Trump the upper hand. But lately, even Biden’s good days have been few and far between, and I shudder to think of his flailing responses (probably his go-to will be “challenge Trump to a push-up contest”). I hope the Democrats who have suddenly come together behind Biden have a good reason for having changed their minds and concluded he is ready for what would hit him. But I suspect they’ve just tried not to think about it.

    So: The central argument for nominating Joe Biden is not that he would be a good president, because, for all the reasons I went into, he clearly wouldn’t. The only case for him is “electability”—even Joe Biden’s wife (not sister), Jill Biden, makes the argument this way: “You know you may like another candidate better, but you have to look at who’s going to win.” But the electability argument for Biden might be the worst argument of all. Biden is a corrupt, inept, dishonest, undisciplined, rambling con man. This makes him less electable, not more. It makes him exactly the person we don’t want to use to make those very same charges against Trump. Because Biden is a man with almost no message, a bunch of scandals including feeling women up against their will, a seemingly addled and confused brain, a long history of inventing nonsensical stories, and a record and agenda that will inspire no one, the electability case seems thin. Much is made of the difficult challenge Sanders faces in increasing youth turnout, but I’m not sure why anyone under 30 would show up for Joe Biden, a man who has contempt for them and has spent his life embodying everything about the Democratic Party that turns them off politics. If there is a Biden plan for mobilizing and exciting ex-Sanders voters, I struggle to think what it could possibly be.

    In fact, the only way the “electability” case can even begin to be made is by saying that whatever Biden’s chances are, Sanders’ are worse. Yes, you may say, I admit Joe Biden is a disaster waiting to happen. But Bernie Sanders is a democratic socialist. I’ve discussed at great length before why I think this concern is actually backwards, and that a populist outsider like Bernie Sanders will have a much easier time running against Trump than Democratic insider politicians. In fact, Trump himself was afraid Hillary Clinton would pick Bernie Sanders as her running mate, because he guessed that she would have won with Sanders on the ticket. (In the end, spite won out over pragmatism, and she picked a guy with a terrible record on abortion rights whose name and face you may not even remember.) Sanders is very good at talking to Trump’s own voters, in a way that respects their concerns but doesn’t validate their racism, and has far less contempt for so-called “deplorables” than many Democrats do. I won’t repeat my full case for Sanders’ electability, which I have done so at length elsewhere, but I would ask that instead of assuming that received wisdom is necessarily true, you take a moment to question it and wonder whether the many talking heads who insist Sanders cannot win might be just as wrong as they were about whether Hillary Clinton’s victory was inevitable.

     

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Will_C.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Will_C.
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