Home » Forums » The Loveland Arms – pub chat » Mind-Expanding (non-science) things
I don’t have a smartphone btw, but I may have to get one since sometime in the future the bank is switching to app only internet banking. Now I can log in on my laptop but soon I’ll need a smartphone, but I think I can also do it with a tablet.
Well these are just annoyances I guess. But if they start requiring implants or whatever, that’s a whole different magnitude.
We’ll see I guess. I am sure I am not the only one who doesn’t want implants, so maybe there’ll be communities of luddites like that. Or I’ll finally go live in the monastery.
Like I said, I think neural implants during our lifetimes are about as likely as a working colony on Mars, i.e. both are just Elon Musk’s pipe dreams.
In China there used to be a large network of Buddhist and Taoist monasteries throughout the country, in rough areas like mountains. If people got tired of the rat race or the crazy demands of civilized city life, they could “drop out” and move to such a community. I think I’m missing something like that in my country. Maybe in the US it does exist in a way, people can leave the city and take up rural life, but that may require exceptional skills and some resources.
The Netherlands is pretty uniform and most people exist in the same kind of “continuum” with little space for outsiders. It can be suffocating. Of course we have our little quirky Christian villages but those places are even more socially controlled, and people who can’t manage there often end up as mental patients, drunks or junkies.
There is some commotion on the web about a young Dutch woman who is scheduled for euthanasia for reasons of mental suffering. People say it’s inhumane. I disagree, it’s not inhumane to end suffering in this way as a last resort.
However, I do think there is a big issue with the mental health sector being inadequate to treat these cases. We have problems for instance with finding patients the right doctors and therapists in time, I believe we rely on medication too often and there are issues with medication worsening the problems, and we have general problems with giving people a reason to live when they suffer. I would be very bad if we start offering severe patients euthanasia when with more effort and money we could still help them in other ways.
Ending your life for reasons of mental health is a particularly tricky one, as the urge to do so is often a symptom of the mental illness and may thus be gone when you feel better. On the other hand, it’s quite unfair to deny people suffering from mental health problems the same rights over their own life as everybody else (in places where this is allowed at all, obviously).
I’m of the opinion that a lot of depression is not really an illness but the logical result of a shit life. Shit life syndrome. Many people who are depressed and people who go on to commit suicide were abused or just live in circumstances that are impossible to live in. Some people truly live with a broken brain, I’ve seen many of them in the time I’ve been walking around in the mental health circuit, but that is also often due to some trauma.
I think allowing yourself to get properly angry can wield good results in treating depression. Allow yourself to start to HATE who or what hurt you. There’s a taboo on this, a kind of frustration because you’re supposed to love, not hate. But hate can set you free.
Not sure how big the role hatred plays should be and whether it can truly set you free, but to my understanding it’s certainly one fundamental of mental health to accept your own emotions as valid, and not just push down the negative ones. That’ll just turn the anger inwards towards yourself.
And yes, sure, life circumstances can certainly contribute to depression. On the other hand, I know quite a few people who on paper have a pretty good life and who are suffering from depression. And I think it’s important to recognise it’s an illness you can’t cure by only changing the outer framework of a life.
I may have overdone it with that hate thing. Looks embarrassing, sorry about that. (I do think people should accept the hate for their abusers, but I also admit hate can “boil over” and start causing other problems). Still I think anger serves a purpose and can be used in therapy to get people to a point where they are better equiped to deal with their problems. Anger can give energy which can help to solve a situation and reach a new equilibrium or acceptance.
I’ve had a few different therapists, and it’s wild how different they work. The best help I had was with one who worked at the GP office, who helped me take practical steps to improve certain things in my life.
Still I think anger serves a purpose and can be used in therapy to get people to a point where they are better equiped to deal with their problems. Anger can give energy which can help to solve a situation and reach a new equilibrium or acceptance.
Yeah, I think that’s quite true. I also suspect that one reason why heavy metal freaks always seem to be such well-adjusted, gentle people when you get to actually know them is that listening to angry music is a great outlet for your own feelings of anger. I honestly think that a mosh pit can be quite therapeutic.
I’ve had a few different therapists, and it’s wild how different they work. The best help I had was with one who worked at the GP office, who helped me take practical steps to improve certain things in my life.
Yeah, I am greatly in favour of systemic behavioural therapy as opposed to depth psychology (huh… that seems to be the actual English word for it) or psychoanalysis.
Honestly in our age I think you have to be at least a little mentally ill. With governments that tell you you can’t leave your house and you have to eat the bugs.
Being “well adjusted” to the shit we’re going through could ironically keep you mentally healthy, but it is not good.
Still with the gaslighting…
Still with the gaslighting…
It’s not gaslighting if the things aren’t happening. Even at the height of the lockdowns you were allowed out. This is a fact. Nobody is going to make you eat bugs. This is a fact.
You are literally denying reality and attempting to deflect away by using the language to describe abusers. And it won’t work because the facts, as they say don’t care about your feelings.
“Mental illness” can actually be a physical illness, as the brain literally changes and the depression, anxiety, etc. are more symptoms of a biological impairment. It’s why diet and exercise are critical components in treatment plans as they can help “change the brain”.
Still with the gaslighting…
It’s not gaslighting if the things aren’t happening. Even at the height of the lockdowns you were allowed out. This is a fact. Nobody is going to make you eat bugs. This is a fact.
You are literally denying reality and attempting to deflect away by using the language to describe abusers. And it won’t work because the facts, as they say don’t care about your feelings.
- This reply was modified 7 months, 4 weeks ago by lorcan_nagle.
I am not arguing with Lorcan but I’ll reply for you, Todd. We had a night curfew, couldn’t go out after 6, and in many countries you were only allowed out once a day, and only for vital things like shopping for food. People were also arrested for things like visiting relatives when leaving town, in a country like Spain for instance you coulddn’t be outside a 5 kilomter zone from your home. In Italy you couldn’t leave your house without a written form explaining your valid purpose of being outside. Playgrounds were closed. I remember in Australia buildings were closed with people having to remain inside all day when there were a few corona cases in the building. Senior citizens in old folks homes had to stay in all day without any visits. China was of course the worst and most inhumane with people literally bolted in their homes but that’s one country (which was complimented by the WHO for their effective measures, I mean if governments thought this was bad rather than admiring it, where was the official reprimand by the UN?).
I admit maybe saying “governments didn’t let you out of your house” is too imprecise since not all governments forced you to stay in all the time, but it’s true in the spirit of the discourse. If I wanted to be more precise I could have said “Governments had a strong control over when and for what purpose we could leave our homes and in some cases prohibited people from going out of their homes at all”.
About the bug eating, I can’t prove that, but the way they’re pushing it in the media while also demonizing meat let’s say I have my suspicions. This article literally says “You will eat the bugs and like it”.
I am not arguing with Lorcan
Because you have no counter-arguments
I am not arguing with Lorcan
Because you have no counter-arguments
No, it’s because you’re a pretty good gaslighter. People who argue with you have to watch their mental health, since it can be very damaging. So that’s why I generally try to ignore you, I have to protect myself, after all you know I have a mental illness history (which I think you exploit). So in arguments with you I’ll just stick to this, saying you gaslight, and that’s it.
I am not arguing with Lorcan
Because you have no counter-arguments
No, it’s because you’re a pretty good gaslighter. People who argue with you have to watch their mental health, since it can be very damaging. So that’s why I generally try to ignore you, I have to protect myself, after all you know I have a mental illness history (which I think you exploit). So in arguments with you I’ll just stick to this, saying you gaslight, and that’s it.
You think I gaslight because you prefer the narrative in which you feel comfortable to reality, and you don’t like people pointing out how full of shit you are.
Arjan, I think it’s important to recognise one thing here: The democratic governments in the European countries hated doing all that. Not because they are such awesomely upstanding people, but because people hated it, and that means losing votes. They did it anyway, either because a) they saw it as the right thing to do based on the best advice they could get at the time or b) because killing everybody’s grandmas will lose you even more votes. You can pick the option you like better, but this is the bottom line: covid was terrible for the economy and for approval ratings, and democratic governments depend on both. The idea that these governments revelled in the ability to oppress people is mostly nonsense (apart from a few autocratic personalities who may actually have enjoyed this).
And this is also important:
About the bug eating, I can’t prove that, but the way they’re pushing it in the media while also demonizing meat let’s say I have my suspicions. This article literally says “You will eat the bugs and like it”.
If your basis for thinking this is that you found one article with an attention-grabbing title, you have to understand that it’s you doing this thing. Also: Nobody is “pushing” this in the media. Apart from your memes, I have seen pretty much nothing at all about this whole thing. It pretty much doesn’t exist in the traditional media if you aren’t explcitly looking for it. The only reason why you keep seeing it is that your algorithms are looking out for certain conspiracy-related stuff to push into your field of vision. That is also something you need to be aware of.
There’s a greater than zero chance they chose that title for the article BECAUSE of the conspiracy theory.
And do we need to point out that the root of the “you’ll eat bugs” conspiracy is anti-semitism? Or can we just take it as given because all these conspiracies end up there?
The only reason why you keep seeing it is that your algorithms are looking out for certain conspiracy-related stuff to push into your field of vision.
Exactly. It’s a feature, not a bug.
Er… except in this case it’s also a bug, obviously.
Arjan, we go through this same argument every few months.
No one liked what was done during the pandemic. )Yes, China took it to extreme lengths but then it’s China, no surprises there.) BUT THOSE MEASURES SAVED TENS OF MILLIONS OF LIVES.
The question that is always asked of you but you NEVER answer:
In your opinion, what should have governments done that would have saved the same amount of lives, or more? Keep in mind, this solution has to factor in the leaders who were in place in early 2020. Remember, Trump was POTUS then and he didn’t follow the protocols that were in place.
I am not arguing with Lorcan
Because you have no counter-arguments
No, it’s because you’re a pretty good gaslighter. People who argue with you have to watch their mental health, since it can be very damaging. So that’s why I generally try to ignore you, I have to protect myself, after all you know I have a mental illness history (which I think you exploit). So in arguments with you I’ll just stick to this, saying you gaslight, and that’s it.
You think I gaslight because you prefer the narrative in which you feel comfortable to reality, and you don’t like people pointing out how full of shit you are.
Anyway before this tangent began I was arguing that depression rather than just being caused by interior, mental factors, is for a large part a social phenomenon. It is caused by the society and culture we live in. So that culture should be very hesitant to use euthanasia as an acceptable solution (although again, in extreme circumstances I think it can be acceptable.) since it is possible to make other changes to help people.
For every individual certain needs must be met, like food, housing, etc but for many there are additional needs which are often forgotten, things like love, beauty, recreation, nature, challenges and achievement. Those are vital too for a sane individual, but it can differ from person to person which is important. In helping people with depression I think there must be a synergy where therapist and patient work together in finding these vital areas.
(I think getting challenged and finding achievement are very important. We need something that stimulates us and challenges, some worthy goal, rather than just dull work and entertainment.)
Anyway before this tangent began I was arguing that depression rather than just being caused by interior, mental factors, is for a large part a social phenomenon. It is caused by the society and culture we live in.
I don’t entirely disagree, but I think it’s hard to differentiate between interior, mental factors and the society we live in. I am also unsure as to whether you can heal depression by changing the exterior factors once someone is suffering from it.
Put differently, a lot of the contributing factors of depression are established in childhood and changing your mind once you’re an adult is a very hard thing to do.
But I also don’t disagree that people might find it easier to find a path out if our society was different. If we were all more connected, more supportive. Alienation is possibly still the most important concept to understand not just the 20th but also the 21st century.
Put differently, a lot of the contributing factors of depression are established in childhood and changing your mind once you’re an adult is a very hard thing to do.
Yeah I agree with that. Trauma can change how the brain works. (I’m not claiming there is no role for anti-depressant medication either, I assume they can be helpful for some people)
Exercise is also a big thing that can help with people who suffer from depression. For instance walking shows effects in many studies. In my own case, certain exercises for instance yoga-like stretching routines can have a positive effect on my mood. Sitting behind a computer all day probably isn’t good.
One famous psychologist in the Netherlands often tells his patients to start running. I think it probably doesn’t help for everyone though, different people have different needs.
You can’t control society but you can control how you react to it
Diet, exercise, and therapy (with medication as required) are the starting points to better mental health. Some disorders may require more intense solutions, including institutionalization.
There are no simple solutions as every person is different with different causes and experiences. Treatment plans are trial and error. It’s all about finding the path that works for that specific individual.
You can’t control society but you can control how you react to it
True, but I think it is important to be honest to ourselves about society and how it effects us.
In the end, I don’t think it’s an either/or thing, but two sides of a coin. If things go well, you can maintain your own mental health even in a society in which this is challenging. But our societies could make it quite a lot easier for us.
Let me just also say that obviously, capitalism is the biggest problem here. Right? Right.
Let me just also say that obviously, capitalism is the biggest problem here. Right? Right.
I don’t think that is true, but that’s something we could argue about until the end of the world. I think ultimately the biggest problem is dukkha, as Buddhism calls it, the unsatisfactory nature of existence. (I’m not a Buddhist, but I think that is one thing Buddhism got right)
And that’s something you’re never going to solve unless you believe you can reach nirvana or something like that. I think people have to learn to deal with existence being sucky in certain respects. And I think for some people the way to deal with that is suicide.
(Capitalism is a part of that I agree, but it is bigger than just capitalism or politics. It’s also certain things we can’t admit to ourselves, lack of love, lack of truthfulness, entropy, our bodies falling apart. For instance, it’s hard to be happy when you’re so fat every move you make hurts you, and you eat so much because you were sexually abused as a child. Many lives are just broken in this way, it’s shit life symdrome. And I think many socieities that are not capitalist, like North Korea share all these problems)
Of course what I said is also a bit more broad than just “society”or “culture”…these are all things which can make us depressed other than merely the mental workings of the mind, the mental illness. Of course physical stuff or sickness is something you can’t always blame on “society”, people just get sick sometimes. I guess what I really mean is rather than just blaming things on society, people should sometimes understand it is shitty things in general which can make us depressed. So that also includes society, but also other things like physical sickness, fear of abusive people, etc
I think there’s also something about this that we are only starting to realise, and that is that it’s also just part of life to be mentally ill for a while. None of us go through life without physical illnesses, and the simple truth is that the same pretty much goes for mental illnesses, as well. Even if you haven’t suffered through anything spectacularly abusive, shit just happens to pretty much everybody, and of course your parents fuck you up – they may not mean to, but they do.
Going to therapy should be just as normal as seeing a doctor because you’ve injured your leg or something.
There’s something really horrible about the Christian idea of the crucifixion of Christ. In the interpretation of mainstream Christianity at least. Just the idea that he was killed for the good of mankind – basically that is a human sacrifice to placate the God(s), like what we pretend to abhor when pagan peoples did it. But when you think about what really happened, it also says religious persecution is good. It is good and righteous to live in a society where you are persecuted for your faith, you are meant to follow Christ after all and Christ was persecuted for his beliefs.
If the mainstream belief would be that the crucifixion was a tragedy, Christ was a good man, a prophet of our people and look what they did to him, then that would be alright. But they want you to believe it is good, because he died to save mankind from their sins. And they carry around the crosses, the symbol of his torture and execution, and show it everywhere like it’s a positive symbol.
I just treat it as a game of telephone, the gospels have some good or at least interesting, provocative messages, but in many of the other books of the Bible there is a lot of nonsense. I think a lot of the “Jesus died for your sins” stuff comes from the epistles of Paul, not the gospels. (But there might be a little bit of that in the gospels too, not 100 % sure about that)
Btw I think you don’t have to base your own religious beliefs 100 % o a book. Your own real life experience, like prayer, meditation etc., or walking in the woods, having a mystical experience, things like that, that can all be a valid form of inspiration
A nurse in a psychiatric facility was stabbed to death by one of the patients a few weeks ago. And there was another violent incident at the same facility last Friday. This had caused a lot of consternation and lamenting the violence against people in the healthcare profession. However since it’s in a psychiatric facility I think there is probably more blame to go around.
In parts of the Netherlnds the waiting list for complex mental illnesses can be up to 80 weeks. The state of this sector is overall just awful. The cause of the problems is I believe the sorry state of the profession, a lack of money and political and social lack of willingness to deal with it.
Sounds pretty terrible, and kind of familier. In Germany, they’re definitely restricting access to mental health treatment in unacceptable ways.
Relevant to the discussion we had about anger and mental health…
https://www.theguardian.com/science/article/2024/may/12/road-rage-epidemic-peter-abbott-abuse-fury
It’s the Guardian, so you know, it’s going to be a certain kind of view. But it is not that bad an article, it sort of shows the mainstream opinion of the (un)acceptability of displays of anger. However it also talks about Phil Zimbardo’s prison experiment which I believe has been debunked.
I think in terms of worldwide influence, the US determines almost everything for the Western world. Even people in Poland are now completely in thrall to the American agenda. Ireland could be an exception because they had a violent struggle for independence.
But really most of the EU just does what the US tells them to. Or anyway, what the American establishment tells them to. The democratic party/Harvard/New York Times establishment. In the end what matters is military power, true power comes from the barrel of a gun, and the EU at least assumes it is protected by the US nuclear umbrella from being destroyed by Russia. A new Trump presidency could throw all of that into an abyss of uncertainty though.
(The UK is probably an exception too, being an island with nukes they’re not that dependent on the US)
Does a butterfly remember anything from his or her life as a caterpillar?
Let’s take a look at the process:
First, the caterpillar digests itself, releasing enzymes to dissolve all of its tissues. If you were to cut open a cocoon or chrysalis at just the right time, caterpillar soup would ooze out. But the contents of the pupa are not entirely an amorphous mess. Certain highly organized groups of cells known as imaginal discs survive the digestive process. Before hatching, when a caterpillar is still developing inside its egg, it grows an imaginal disc for each of the adult body parts it will need as a mature butterfly or moth—discs for its eyes, for its wings, its legs and so on. In some species, these imaginal discs remain dormant throughout the caterpillar’s life; in other species, the discs begin to take the shape of adult body parts even before the caterpillar forms a chrysalis or cocoon. Some caterpillars walk around with tiny rudimentary wings tucked inside their bodies, though you would never know it by looking at them.
Once a caterpillar has disintegrated all of its tissues except for the imaginal discs, those discs use the protein-rich soup all around them to fuel the rapid cell division required to form the wings, antennae, legs, eyes, genitals and all the other features of an adult butterfly or moth. The imaginal disc for a fruit fly’s wing, for example, might begin with only 50 cells and increase to more than 50,000 cells by the end of metamorphosis. Depending on the species, certain caterpillar muscles and sections of the nervous system are largely preserved in the adult butterfly. One study even suggests that moths remember what they learned in later stages of their lives as caterpillars.
Given the self-digestion, you would think not. But… study. Only one though at this point.
(Not exactly a philosophical answer, but I found this very interesting.)
When asked what is the finest thing in all of life, Diogenes said, “plain speaking”.
Sometimes reality is deeply offensive.
Sometimes reality is deeply offensive.
Reality is what is. It is your personal perspective and sensibilities that color how you view.
We’re conquered people.
I wonder if there is a connection between alcoholism (and also other drugs) and Calvinism. Northern Europe is more prone to alcoholism than the South. Or maybe there is a connection with the climate.
However, now that I think about it, Poland and Lithuania are Catholic and they also have high rates of alcoholism. Oh and Ireland too. And the Netherlands and Germany are about half Catholic.
Maybe climate is more of a factor. The long winter nights. I really do believe there’s a possibility the “Mediterranean climate” influences mental wellbeing.
What is the main point, the animating drive of the countries we live in? When you think abut liberal states, their main thing seems to be the right to make a lot of money, and the guarantee of certain personal freedoms, and democracy. Soc-dem is a variety of the liberal state, where there is an extra emphasis on social welfare (although ideally that should be the case, in practice most parties that say they’re soc-dems are indistinguishable from liberal parties)
It’s the “unalienable rights” from the Declaration of Independence, Life, LIberty and the pursuit of Happiness. So people should be “free”, and find their happiness, in other words. Of course the motto of the French Revolution was Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité, but then you immediately bump into the dilemma that freedom is in contradiction with equality. If you don’t have the freedom to be inequal, or different, you have no freedom at all. (Of course there are negative freedoms and positive freedoms. Negative freedom is the absence of outside coercion whereas positive freedoms are freedoms to be able to do certain things, to have the means to do something. For instance, the freedom to acquire halthcare might require financial aid.)
edit: Damn, I forgot equality was in the Declaration of Independence as well.
If you don’t have the freedom to be inequal, or different, you have no freedom at all.
Equality in reference to the Declaration of Independence and the French motto does not mean everyone has equal personalities, equal ambitions, equal sexual orientations, equal salaries, etc. It means that everyone is entitled to equal rights in the eyes of the law and of society, regardless of how different you are. Equality is supposed to make it easier for people to be different without fear of punishment.
Equality is supposed to make it easier for people to be different without fear of punishment.
Fair enough, that is beautifully stated.
I also always liked the idea of equlity of opportunity. Everbody should have the same chances to build their lives and find happiness, ideally. We are pretty far from that these days, because that’s a thing where you would need to limit a few people’s freedom in order to provide it to many others (I’m talking about redistribution of wealth here, because capital tends to accumulate and left to its own devices, capitalism tends to produce more and more inequality).
It is difficult. I think ideally people should have freedom to make choices for certain goals they want to attain in their lives, but many of the pathways to those goals have to be neatly arranged by the state for them to be attainable, and obviously even then not everybody has the same capabilities to reach certain goals.
In a democracy there should be a constant debate on what the state should invest in, do we use this euro to pay for this kid’s education, or for military aid for Ukraine, or infrastructure? Ultimately the capacity of the state is limited. Rather than trying to make every kid an astronaut or football star, I would prefer they pour money into whatever is appropriate given the kids capabilities.
And obviously, we’ll never get to the point that anybody actually has equal opportunities regardless of parents. But you can at least make it possible, if not equally easy, for everybody to get to the same point by providing free quality education from kindergarten to and including university or vocational school (this is where the talents and capabilities thing is relevant).
In a democracy there should be a constant debate on what the state should invest in,
Sure. But there should also be a constant debate about how and where the state raises money, which unfortunately doesn’t happen anymore, at least not over here. The 0,004 percent have managed to make the part of the discussion taboo that would refer to themselves; the discussion exclusively revolves around spending for the unemployed, refugees and foreign aid.
The highest knowing and seeing is knowing and seeing unknowing and unseeing. – Meister Eckhart
I’m watching old stuff by Theo Van Gogh on youtube. Fucking brilliant man.
I know there is a problem with being edgy for edgy’s sake, but these days honestly you have to go against the herd. It’s good to be despised by morons.
The “world happiness report” survey, the one that Nordic countries always win, doesn’t ask people how happy they are, they ask for other things which the organizers think should correlate with happiness.
I just read up on it on their homepage, and it seems that they actually do ask people how happy they are?
Life evaluations from the Gallup World Poll provide the basis for the annual happiness rankings. They are based on answers to the main life evaluation question. The Cantril Ladder asks respondents to think of a ladder, with the best possible life for them being a 10 and the worst possible life being a 0. They are then asked to rate their own current lives on that 0 to 10 scale. The rankings are from nationally representative samples over three years.
And further explanation from Gallup:
The Cantril Scale, which has been used by a wide variety of researchers since its initial development by Hadley Cantril, is an example of one type of well-being assessment. At the same time, scholarly research has revealed that measurement of well-being is multifaceted, including a continuum from judgments of life (life evaluation) to feelings (daily affect). Different measures of well-being provide different perspectives on the process by which respondents reflect on or experience their lives. The Cantril Scale measures well-being closer to the end of the continuum representing judgments of life or life evaluation (Diener, Kahneman, Tov, & Arora, 2009). Research conducted across countries around the world (Deaton, 2008) indicates substantial correlations between the Cantril Scale and income. This contrasts with measures of feelings or affect which appear to be more closely correlated with variables such as social time (Harter & Arora, 2008).
And of course, there’s research that is critical of the Cantril Scale as a measure:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-52939-y
The Cantril Ladder is among the most widely administered subjective well-being measures; every year, it is collected in 140+ countries in the Gallup World Poll and reported in the World Happiness Report. The measure asks respondents to evaluate their lives on a ladder from worst (bottom) to best (top). Prior work found Cantril Ladder scores sensitive to social comparison and to reflect one’s relative position in the income distribution. To understand this, we explored how respondents interpret the Cantril Ladder. We analyzed word responses from 1581 UK adults and tested the impact of the (a) ladder imagery, (b) scale anchors of worst to best possible life, and c) bottom to top. Using three language analysis techniques (dictionary, topic, and word embeddings), we found that the Cantril Ladder framing emphasizes power and wealth over broader well-being and relationship concepts in comparison to the other study conditions. Further, altering the framings increased preferred scale levels from 8.4 to 8.9 (Cohen’s d = 0.36). Introducing harmony as an anchor yielded the strongest divergence from the Cantril Ladder, reducing mentions of power and wealth topics the most (Cohen’s d = −0.76). Our findings refine the understanding of historical Cantril Ladder data and may help guide the future evolution of well-being metrics and guidelines.
Huh. Interesting.
I just read up on it on their homepage, and it seems that they actually do ask people how happy they are?
Life evaluations from the Gallup World Poll provide the basis for the annual happiness rankings. They are based on answers to the main life evaluation question. The Cantril Ladder asks respondents to think of a ladder, with the best possible life for them being a 10 and the worst possible life being a 0. They are then asked to rate their own current lives on that 0 to 10 scale. The rankings are from nationally representative samples over three years.
And further explanation from Gallup:
The Cantril Scale, which has been used by a wide variety of researchers since its initial development by Hadley Cantril, is an example of one type of well-being assessment. At the same time, scholarly research has revealed that measurement of well-being is multifaceted, including a continuum from judgments of life (life evaluation) to feelings (daily affect). Different measures of well-being provide different perspectives on the process by which respondents reflect on or experience their lives. The Cantril Scale measures well-being closer to the end of the continuum representing judgments of life or life evaluation (Diener, Kahneman, Tov, & Arora, 2009). Research conducted across countries around the world (Deaton, 2008) indicates substantial correlations between the Cantril Scale and income. This contrasts with measures of feelings or affect which appear to be more closely correlated with variables such as social time (Harter & Arora, 2008).
And of course, there’s research that is critical of the Cantril Scale as a measure:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-52939-y
The Cantril Ladder is among the most widely administered subjective well-being measures; every year, it is collected in 140+ countries in the Gallup World Poll and reported in the World Happiness Report. The measure asks respondents to evaluate their lives on a ladder from worst (bottom) to best (top). Prior work found Cantril Ladder scores sensitive to social comparison and to reflect one’s relative position in the income distribution. To understand this, we explored how respondents interpret the Cantril Ladder. We analyzed word responses from 1581 UK adults and tested the impact of the (a) ladder imagery, (b) scale anchors of worst to best possible life, and c) bottom to top. Using three language analysis techniques (dictionary, topic, and word embeddings), we found that the Cantril Ladder framing emphasizes power and wealth over broader well-being and relationship concepts in comparison to the other study conditions. Further, altering the framings increased preferred scale levels from 8.4 to 8.9 (Cohen’s d = 0.36). Introducing harmony as an anchor yielded the strongest divergence from the Cantril Ladder, reducing mentions of power and wealth topics the most (Cohen’s d = −0.76). Our findings refine the understanding of historical Cantril Ladder data and may help guide the future evolution of well-being metrics and guidelines.
Huh. Interesting.
You’re right, I was completely wrong. I misinterpreted something I read on the Dutch wikipedia page for the world happiness report.
The AI has teamed up with the fungi, we’re doomed
https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/robot-mushroom-biohybrid-robotics-cornell-b2606970.html
I for one welcome our new mushroom overlords.
It’s probably worth quoting the title of the article:
Mushroom learns to crawl after being given robot body
Jesus.
“By growing mycelium into the electronics of a robot, we were able to allow the biohybrid machine to sense and respond to the environment,” said Rob Shepherd, a professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering at Cornell.
“The potential for future robots could be to sense soil chemistry in row crops and decide when to add more fertiliser, for example, perhaps mitigating downstream effects of agriculture like harmful algal blooms.”
Okay, that sounds more prosaic. Still, this can obviously only lead to a mixture of The Last of Us and Terminator.
This is pretty funny, this mn debunked the “blue zones”, those places where people are said to live to a very high age:
I always thought there was something iffy. I knew Okinawans eat a lot of pork, they don’t have that “plant based diet” thse people said they have. They also drink more alcohol than other Japanese.
I think Nietzsche has some appealing things, but overall his thought is very imprecise and buggy. He seems to glorify individual worth, individual heroism and glory, when cooperation almost always wields better results. And things like empathy, friendliness, etc are important to cooperate better. Also it is better to acknowledge weakness and accept help than stubbornly and proudly remain isolated and refuse help.
I think Nietzsche has some appealing things, but overall his thought is very imprecise and buggy. He seems to glorify individual worth, individual heroism and glory, when cooperation almost always wields better results. And things like empathy, friendliness, etc are important to cooperate better. Also it is better to acknowledge weakness and accept help than stubbornly and proudly remain isolated and refuse help.
Arjan,
I think you would like this YouTube channel. It discusses philosophers and philosophy in an engaging way. I really enjoy it.
I think an important part of the modern liberal mindset is that all people who come to your country will eventually absorb the current beliefs, or that at least enough can be convinced to follow them to keep society as a whole cohesive. Basically, secular, pro-science, pro-democracy, pro-LGBT. The belief is that this is really the natural state, it is just “normal”.
I don’t think many people would claim that liberal attitudes are “natural”. Currently, it has become very clear that they may actually not even be as mainstream as we used to think they were, with large parts of the population – and not the ones your comment was aimed at – rejecting them and trying to push for a more reactionary model of society.
I think an important part of the modern liberal mindset is that all people who come to your country will eventually absorb the current beliefs, or that at least enough can be convinced to follow them to keep society as a whole cohesive. Basically, secular, pro-science, pro-democracy, pro-LGBT. The belief is that this is really the natural state, it is just “normal”.
Actually, that has always been the conservative mindset. They have the expectation and belief that immigrants assimilate as quickly as possible, even though that’s completely unreasonable.
While assimilation is inevitable, liberals tend want them to hold onto native traditions and beliefs. They appreciate the diversity other cultures bring to their new home.
The thing is, usually by the third generation the family has pretty much assimilated to the new country.
While assimilation is inevitable, liberals tend want them to hold onto native traditions and beliefs. They appreciate the diversity other cultures bring to their new home.
I think you’re wrong there…
While assimilation is inevitable, liberals tend want them to hold onto native traditions and beliefs. They appreciate the diversity other cultures bring to their new home.
I think you’re wrong there…
No, I’m right. You need to read the story:
This week many of those same residents watched in dismay as a now fully Muslim and socially conservative city council passed legislation banning Pride flags from being flown on city property that had – like many others being flown around the country – been intended to celebrate the LGBTQ+ community.
I like reading books about religion and there is one publisher here in the Netherlands who has a series of books about medieval Christianity which is great. The books are really well made. They come with a very good introduction which explains the context of the book and notes that make the meaning easier to decipher. They’re beautifully made hardbacks and not even that expensive. I love them.
I read “the rule” by Benedict of Nursia which is a little book with the commandments and way of life his Benedictine monks had to follow. It’s a great read, interesting to get into the mind of medieval monks.
It’s interesting that when Westerners translate and annotate books on Eastern religions they betray a kind of residue of their old Christian, or Western lib roots. You can also see it in the Zen and Tibetan Buddhist communities where the Eastern religion becomes a vehicle for their hippie ideals. (The CIA also meddled with that stuff)