Marvel Movies & TV: The MCU and beyond

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Discuss all things Marvel here.

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Jon wrote:

they might want to fire whoever did those boring trailers

I personally know who makes the Marvel trailers. It’s the same team based in the UK that has made them all and Star Wars trailers for the past decade and one of them used to be a Millarworld mod. I sincerely hope he doesn’t get fired.  They don’t do the Sony linked Spider-Man/Venom ones though.

Some work better than others though I agree and they are under company/director edict often on what to include.

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Ben

Well I obviously didn’t mean that literally… it’s more of a spicier way of saying “those trailers are bad”… plus it’s not like they’d fire anyone even if I meant it literally anyways…

But hey, if it’s the same company and has been for the past decade, they should REALLY consider some new blood anyways just because it’s good, in a creative sense that is, but then again, the MCU’s not really good at that… which is why there’s now an endemic problem with the MCU and their whole stale-ness.

Well it’s the same team, not necessarily the same people. You get creative turnover over that time.

I think my point is that some Marvel/Star Wars trailers are good and some not so much from essentially the same group. That’ll not necessarily be down to their ability (although yes they are human and can have bad days) but they are also directed on what to show by their bosses. An example is Iron Man 3 where it’s not a bad trailer but it’s not very representative of the movie. It’s very downbeat when the film isn’t really.

That will have been reviewed and amended in depth by many parties at Marvel/Disney before it goes out and there may be many reasons for that choice. Perhaps because the most humorous element in that film (the Trevor Slattery bit) is a massive spoiler that would ruin the film. Maybe the highlights of Shang Chi that are impressing reviewers are not east to translate into a trailer, for example quiet character moments.

I do know you didn’t mean literally fire them by the way, it’s OK, but there are so many elements that go into why a trailer looks like it does. With Star Wars they were given the brief to reveal almost nothing of the plot but just a series of cool images, that contrasts hugely with something like the recent Planet of the Apes where the trailer basically summarises the entire story up until the last 10 minutes.

Well, we have to wait and see, because it may turn out that those trailers are actually representative of their respective movies… I’ve since seen a couple of other reviews that seem less bombastic and more realistic.

But yeah, I won’t blast the trailer companies too much, because as for everything else, I bet there’s a MCU template internally and that’s what ends up falling into their laps… I doubt they have too much creative control over them, tbh.

We saw the Endgame epic of all the heroes in that all out war against Thanos and his forces.

Now… years down the road… when the FF and XMen are established… Do you really want to see another HUGE epic battle with even more characters than Endgame?

After a while, it can get to be too much and overwhelming to the viewer. Signs of MCU fatigue are already starting to show.

Just saying.

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Uncle Retrospective

Are we really seeing signs of MCU fatigue? It’s my understanding that Wandavision and Loki were pretty popular and we’ll received. Black Widow box office numbers aren’t great, but just about nothing has had great his office for the last year and a half. And even with the pandemic and streaming on Disney+, Black Widow is the highest grossing movie in NA this year so far. Shang Chi will likely struggle hard at the box office because we’re smack in the middle of another covid surge. And the trailers haven’t been that engaging. But who knows how it might have performed in a more normal situation.

I’m not saying there isn’t MCU fatigue, but I think it’s pretty hard to extrapolate anything right now considering the way the pandemic has messed with the entertainment industry.

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Ben, DavidM, Todd

All of that plus it is hard to imagine they’ll ever be able to top Endgame in terms of interest levels, or get anywhere even close to that. They’re in the odd position now of having the biggest season finale to a ten-year story imaginable but now having to somehow keep everything going, despite Endgame being a natural jumping-off point for many. Maybe if they get to the X-Men in Phase 5 that will give things a jolt and up interest levels, since by then we’ll be coming up on about a decade since the last non-terrible X-Men team movie.

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Al-x, Todd

An issue is also the Main Bad Guy and the scale of the threat they pose.

They had Thanos and he killed half of the universe.

Next, we have Kang and probably a multiversal war.

After that, who? Doom? Mephisto? After going gonzo with the multiverse and on that scale, anything else almost feels anticlimactic. I would assume that Kang is going to be around for several years so the next threat is a ways away. It will be interesting to see what they do at that point and where the MCU is with the viewing public.

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Al-x

Galactus?

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Al-x

Todd wrote:

After going gonzo with the multiverse and on that scale, anything else almost feels anticlimactic.

No, you just keep repeating at that scale, over and over. Superhero comics have been repeating those same plots for decades. For some weird reason, people keep coming back for them.

 

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Todd

saga wrote:

Galactus?

Thanos did more with a snap of his fingers than Galactus ever has.

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Uncle Retrospective

Certainly, but in terms of visual spectacle Galactus offers something that exceeds Thanos.

I think the sight of Galactus slurping up Earth’s oceans and rainforests and stuff would certainly exceed the snap in terms of spectacle. Also, the fact that it happens to Earth arguably makes the stakes bigger than killing half the universe — let’s be honest, we don’t really care about half the population of any other planet, but burn the rainforest and ohhhhhh noooooooooo!!!!!!!!

The problem with Galactus is that he’s not fightable. I mean, Thor’s not going to punch him. Well, he could, but it would look silly on screen. If you can’t show a big climactic fight on screen, he’s not going to work. The Ultimate Nullifier isn’t very visually impressive.

Ever escalating scale is always a fatal error.  What makes Endgame work isn’t all about that. It’s about the characters. They spent years getting you to care about them so they earn those cheers at the final battle. That includes Thanos himself who escapes the main problem of quite a few MCU films of uncharismatic antagonists (stand up Ronan, Malekith and Nemo).

There are loads of films with universe altering climaxes that nobody gives a shit about because they haven’t succeeded with the first part.

It’s reminiscent of the old Batman movie problem, add an extra villain with each sequel to make the threat ‘bigger’. It actually has the reverse effect because you spend less time developing each one and as a result are less invested in them.

Black Panther is one of the most successful MCU films and doesn’t have massive stakes, it’s a fight for the throne of a country nobody knows exists. In other franchises the most successful Star Trek film is the one about saving whales, also one of the most character focused ones.

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Todd, Al-x, DavidM

On the other hand, Fast & Furious became considerably more successful when it lost whatever tenuous grip it had on any semblance of reality.

Chris D wrote:

Are we really seeing signs of MCU fatigue?

Ok… Let me say this: The viewer can and will pick and choose which movie or show to watch and invest in and which ones they can skip and bypass. I don’t see ALL of them being seen by everyone.

Most likely you will get this response: “Well, I was never into Antman or Shang-Chi, so I will skip them and wait until the more epic Multiverse movie comes out.”

That sort of thing is the viewer behavior

Dominique Thorne as Riri Williams on set of ‘BLACK PANTHER: WAKANDA FOREVER’ pic.twitter.com/mt1gC6xEtt

— Cosmic Marvel Media (@CosmicMedia_) August 26, 2021

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Todd

Al-x wrote:

I don’t see ALL of them being seen by everyone.

I have every intention of watching every official MCU film and TV show. I see no reason not to; even the worst film or series is still entertaining for the links to the larger universe and various Easter eggs strewn throughout. I have faith.

I didn’t have the same commitment to the Netflix Marvel shows, nor the Amazing Spider-Man films, or Runaways, Cloak & Dagger, etc. With those non-MCU productions, I watched if I read positive reviews or heard good word-of-mouth; but with the MCU, I do not plan on skipping anything.

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garjones, Chris D, Todd

Marvel is something like a massive television show for today’s media environment. BONANZA and GUNSMOKE lasted 20 years. General Hospital is still on and it premiered in the 60’s. The MCU is like a massive soap opera (so are the comics) and Americans die before they fatigue.

the headache is what others have mentioned- that it becomes so convoluted and immense that only die hard fans get into it. Again, like the comics.

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Todd, Al-x

[Al-x]

Wow @njerry…

All this, eh?

And the streaming shows?

—————-

You know… If Scorsese complained about the box office being flooded with these movies and crowding out his material, what is he going to say then?

——————

It is clear now that Marvel is more organized with their plans than DC. DC has too much interference from the higher ups at WB.
A shame…

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Al-x.

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For those who want to keep track

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Todd

Chris D wrote:

Are we really seeing signs of MCU fatigue?

From certain people? Yes… the thing is, I think the MCU is always aimed at the same nebulous audience, which ranges between I dunno, 12 to 22 let’s say… So… let’s say that people who were 12 when IM1 came out, they grew up with the MCU, and they probably got a satisfying conclusion with Endgame…

Those people, I don’t think they’ll be as in for the next batch of movies… we’re talking casuals of course, the fans will probably stick with all of it.

But, my point is that this new batch will catch a younger generation’s eye, and so on and so forth… so yeah, there’s probably fatigue but from certain audiences only, not in general.

I mean, it’s unbelivable to think that I’m actually complaining about a SH movie overload, considering where we (us older folks) started. We used to day dream with Alex Ross’ books about what could movies look like… and here we are, bored to shit with MCU movie #25 or whatever…

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DavidM, Todd, Al-x

I do find talk of superhero fatigue kind of weird.  It’s as if there is the idea that certain genres must be time limited, while it’s perfectly fine for others to go on forever.

Ultimately, the only fatigue that matters is commercial and the films keep making money.

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DavidM, Todd, Dave

[Al-x]

Al-x wrote:

Wow @njerry…

All this, eh?

And the streaming shows?

—————-

You know… If Scorsese complained about the box office being flooded with these movies and crowding out his material, what is he going to say then?

——————

It is clear now that Marvel is more organized with their plans than DC. DC has too much interference from the higher ups at WB.
A shame…

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Al-x.

I don’t really consider venom or morbius as part of the MCU right now. But looking at that list I do plan on eventually watching all of those. I’m someone who has managed to enjoy even the worst MCU movies and shows, so yeah I’m down for all of that right now.

Ben wrote:

I do find talk of superhero fatigue kind of weird.  It’s as if there is the idea that certain genres must be time limited, while it’s perfectly fine for others to go on forever. Ultimately, the only fatigue that matters is commercial and the films keep making money.

Also, honestly, we’ve always had some kind of superhero fatigue even while Marvel has been hot. If it’s not about Marvel or DC characters, superhero movies usually flop — including sorta superhero movies like the Hellboy and Power Rangers films. The most successful recent superhero movie outside the Marvel and DC universe is probably The Incredibles, and that was 2004.

On top of that, we’ve got plenty of DC movies that underperformed or outright flopped as well. Honestly, there is no thriving genre of superhero movies today. There is just the very specific Marvel genre that’s basically having all the success.

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lorcan_nagle

Honoring our friend, our inspiration, and our King, Chadwick Boseman. pic.twitter.com/UmOhEE5ZkH

— Marvel Entertainment (@Marvel) August 28, 2021

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Al-x, Ben, njerry, Todd

Al-x wrote:

Wow @njerry…

All this, eh?

Why not? I have free nights during the week.

Seriously….why not?

Anonymous wrote:

On top of that, we’ve got plenty of DC movies that underperformed or outright flopped as well. Honestly, there is no thriving genre of superhero movies today.

Which is…. just like every other kind of movie, so why the special attention to superheroes? It’s as if people don’t want to accept it as a legitimate genre.

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DavidM

I find the oddity of the specific success of the superhero genre in films interesting. The people criticizing it, like Scorsese, seem to act like there are superhero movies coming out all the time and that’s where all the production money is going when, in fact, it’s just movies based on Marvel characters and even then mostly movies in the MCU with only a few truly successful DC characters leading films at WB (though DC characters are killing it in television). DC and Marvel dominate the superhero genre in comics, too, but there still are plenty of other books by other companies out there on the stands each week. You’ll get more than the occasional Invincible 0r The Boys.

I think a lot of critics also like to lump anything based on a comic book into a kind of pseudo-genre of “comic book films” when they really mean “superhero movies”, too. Comic books are a medium for any genre. It would be like lumping together any movie based on a book into the “novel genre.”

It’s interesting to compare it to the horror genre or action movie genre. We have horror movies coming out practically every week. I was walking by a theater today and saw that it had the new Candyman and Don’t Breath 2 playing, and I didn’t even know Don’t Breath had a sequel coming out. Horror is much broader and more prevalent than superhero movies — if it was like the superhero genre we have today then all we’d see are a majority of Conjuring movies and a smaller group of movies based on Stephen King and then a very few flops outside those.

If superhero movies were a genre like horror, then we’d see a near weekly release of films with a variety of budgets and a variety of characters. However, in the actual superhero genre, it is pretty much just big-budget movies with Marvel  characters (even then, mostly MCU characters) driven by special effects. As a genre, or maybe more a subgenre of action and science fiction, it is not really dominating or very diverse. To me, the criticism of the genre seems based on an incorrect perception as it is hardly dominating films.

Instead, film as a medium is changing greatly and Marvel movies were a few of the reliable draws to get people into the theater. Just as with science fiction, only a few films lately in that genre have managed to get people to the theater. Same with action movies in general or comedies which honestly, like horror, are more approaches than defined genres.

Superhero films need pretty big budgets to be successful, though, which is why the market is this way. Horror movies and thrillers don’t need big budgets or recognizable brand names, so you’ll naturally see more diversity. I think the perception that superhero movies have changed cinema or filmmaking is not true. The changing dynamics of the film market are what have made superhero movies possible and popular.

if anything, filmmakers should be trying to increase the appeal of superhero movies. Honestly, the stupid shark movie genre is thriving and probably as profitable as the entire superhero movie genre but it’s not getting people to the big screen.

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Ben

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Todd

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Todd

njerry wrote:

Why not? I have free nights during the week.

Seriously….why not?

ok @njerry… I like you as you are as always a good voice of reason bringing things to my attention as well as being a gentleman and a scholar.

This new table has more info including the streaming. It should give you a better idea of what you have obligated yourself to see:

Now, with regards to what I said about Marvel fatigue. I was just saying that the average moviegoer who is not a diehard comic reader will pick and choose, which is why there are meme’s out there like this:

If you have any more questions or want me to clarify further, please let me know.😂

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Any ideas on when Spider-Man: No Way Home, Jose will be available on Disney+?  I’d love to get back to a cinema to watch it but with a baby due at the end of November I highly doubt that’s happening.

“I’ll leave for the hospital soon, dear, just need to see what the post-credits scene is first!”

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Rocket, Todd

Very nice @saga …

I am happy for you! 😀

Thanks, man!

saga wrote:

Any ideas on when Spider-Man: No Way Home, Jose will be available on Disney+?  I’d love to get back to a cinema to watch it but with a baby due at the end of November I highly doubt that’s happening.

“I’ll leave for the hospital soon, dear, just need to see what the post-credits scene is first!”

If it’s a girl, are you going to name her Thanos?

BTW, Congratulations!!!

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Rocket

Thanks!

Yeah, maybe a nice traditional name like Namor, or Red Skull…

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Rocket, Todd

[Todd]

saga wrote:

Thanks!

Yeah, maybe a nice traditional name like Namor, or Red Skull…

Doom is a classic name that works for all genders.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Todd.

Al-x wrote:

This new table has more info including the streaming. It should give you a better idea of what you have obligated yourself to see:

There is a different way of looking at it. We’ve now developed these charts to go several years out but if you went to see every movie at the cinema in a year your commitment would be (let’s work at a 2 hour average) a huge total of 8 hours a year or one movie per quarter.

It’s hardly overtaking your life really. I spent 2 bloody hours at the bank today trying to get a new debit card, would rather have been at Shang Chi.

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DavidM, Chris D, Todd

That reminds me, if there is a vol. 4 then let’s have the Guardians of the Galaxy take the Star Trek IV route of having to deal with the mundane bullshit of life on regular Earth. Rocket inevitably snapping under the pressure of a Lidl checkout would be marvelous.

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Uncle Retrospective, Ben, njerry, Todd

garjones wrote:

I spent 2 bloody hours at the bank today trying to get a new debit card, would rather have been at Shang Chi.

Not positive, but I’m pretty sure you can’t get a debit card at Shang Chi either. Just a heads up.

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Todd

More “actor wants work” news:

https://movieweb.com/amp/method-man-x-men-mcu-lucas-bishop/

Since I got Disney+ I have seen the streaming shows and decided to see some movies since I have the day off.

I saw Captain Marvel. So, I can say that I saw it.

That’s it.😂

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Todd

Another argument for recasting T’Challa:

The sequel is done filming, so it’s unlikely they’ll replace him at this point.

It’s been said that a picture is worth a thousand words.

Does this say anything? How true is it?

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njerry, Todd

That people are trying really hard not to sneeze on that nice man while he’s tying his shoes?

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Rocket, Todd, DavidM

I reject the idea that there are “DC Fans” and “Marvel Fans”. Have you honestly ever met a fan who was a fan of the one and not of the other?

 

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garjones

DavidM wrote:

I reject the idea that there are “DC Fans” and “Marvel Fans”. Have you honestly ever met a fan who was a fan of the one and not of the other?

 

Yes. A good friend of mine ribbed me (good-naturedly) for wearing a Marvel-pattern facemask the other day and joked that he couldn’t be seen with me as he was such a DC fan.

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DavidM, Todd

DavidM wrote:

I reject the idea that there are “DC Fans” and “Marvel Fans”. Have you honestly ever met a fan who was a fan of the one and not of the other?

When it comes to the films, I’m definitely an MCU fan but not so crazy about DC’s latest output. I mean, have you seen WW84?!

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DavidM, Todd

DavidM wrote:

I reject the idea that there are “DC Fans” and “Marvel Fans”. Have you honestly ever met a fan who was a fan of the one and not of the other?

 

I’ve found very little of DC’s superhero work enjoyable at all. In basically any format.

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DavidM, Todd

I posted before that marvel is much more organized and has a better plan for their movies and shows than DC. DC seems to be reactionary at best, and at worst a mimic of Marvel. Makes me wonder what DC can do now.
DC has too much interference from the higher ups to do anything coherent. Way too many cooks and hands in the pot.

I was watching some Ragnarok on regular TV and was a little annoyed by the commercial interruptions and I had to go somewhere abruptly. It occurred to me that I have the streaming and can catch the rest at my leisure. So I did. It had its funny moments. Cate Blanchett was good as evil Hela, but I feel she could have been more dimensional and have made a case for the throne, something like the Killmonger guy in Black Panther.

All in all, it is the repetitive Marvel movies of special effects, CGI fancy technology, 3D graphics, spaceship dog fights, choreographed martial arts, and a climactic action move that starts this 70’s rock soundtrack.

The jumping from spaceship to spaceship had me thinking about the Buster Crabbe Flash Gordon movies from the 1930’s. Maybe a modern day Flash Gordon could work, without looking too much like Guardians of the Galaxy. Who knows? Just don’t do it now as there is way too much content at present.

Ragnarok was the best of the Thor movies.

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DavidM

Al-x wrote:

It’s been said that a picture is worth a thousand words.

Does this say anything? How true is it?

 

I don’t know… I was gonna feel bad for the guy in blue, but then again: fuck him and his hipster moustache.

Also: fuck Disney, generally speaking… but also: fuck WB’s incompetent execs.

So I dunno… they all suck??

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DavidM

Gas leak? I’m gonna go with gas leak.

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Todd

Al-x wrote:

All in all, it is the repetitive Marvel movies of special effects, CGI fancy technology, 3D graphics,

To be fair though Al what would you expect from any superhero movie? Stop motion animation? CGI is basically the reason they exist. Before that we got shit like this:

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Todd, Dave, lorcan_nagle

I mean, to be honest, you could paint the Rock green and he’d look good enough… that gigantic beautiful motherfucker!

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Todd, Dave, garjones

Ferrigno actually looks pretty good as the Hulk too but overall those shows were unconvincing because they didn’t have the ability to portray what was actually in the comics. He used to throw barrels around mostly.

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Todd, Dave

Al-x wrote:

It had its funny moments. Cate Blanchett was good as evil Hela, but I feel she could have been more dimensional and have made a case for the throne, something like the Killmonger guy in Black Panther. All in all, it is the repetitive Marvel movies of special effects, CGI fancy technology, 3D graphics, spaceship dog fights, choreographed martial arts, and a climactic action move that starts this 70’s rock soundtrack.

It’s funny you say that as I thought Ragnarok was one of the few MCU movies that really didn’t fall into that trap of being a cookie-cutter predictable comedy-action-adventure.

I thought Waititi’s humour really elevated it, and there was a lightness of touch and desire to entertain that made all the action sequences feel really epic and fun (when they can sometimes get a little grinding and repetitive in these movies).

Plus I thought the cast was great, both the big names like Blanchett and Goldblum, and the slightly smaller supporting roles (Tessa Thompson was great) and fun cameos.

And they actually had the courage to move ahead with some pretty substantial plot developments that altered Thor and Asgard quite a bit.

So for me, Ragnarok is probably the high point of the Phase 3 movies and I’m really looking forward to the follow-up that’s shooting at the moment.

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Todd

I’d agree Ragnarok is definitely the least ‘follow the formula’ MCU movie. It really has a lot of Waititi’s personality in it and it’s my favourite MCU film.

Sure it still retains some tropes but that’s kind of unavoidable in a fantasy action film without making it something else. Essentially if you don’t want CGI or choreographed fights then you are probably better off watching a rom-com or a musical or something.

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Todd, Dave

garjones wrote:

Essentially if you don’t want CGI or choreographed fights then you are probably better off watching a rom-com or a musical or something.

Just about every movie and TV show uses CGI to some degree. It may be something as simple as changing a background on a police procedural or adding crowds in a stadium scene. Most times, they are so innocuous you don’t even realize there’s CGI in the scene. You can’t get away from it as it’s an inexpensive and handy tool for productions.

garjones wrote:

To be fair though Al what would you expect from any superhero movie?

True. Thing is, I saw Captain Marvel the day before and I just saw similarities with that and all the Marvel movies. I don’t know what to do to make it different… maybe not have an power/energy light show? Maybe trick the villain? Who knows?

Captain Marvel is the most perfunctory MCU movie. Even Thor 2 at least had charm in the performances and some interesting visuals. Incredible Norton had the Brazilian chase scene. Captain Marvel felt more like a George Lucas Star Wars prequel than an MCU movie.

Still, a billion dollars is a billion dollars.

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Todd

Todd wrote:

Just about every movie and TV show uses CGI to some degree.

They do. There’s a frequently shared clip of an episode of Ugly Betty where she walks to a bus stop and almost all of it is CGI.

In most cases you don’t know it is even there, they use it hugely in period dramas to cut out anachronisms. The Crown on Netflix has a huge CGI budget.

Saying that I get Al’s take in that superhero films tend to make it more obvious but I don’t really get the complaint in general. CGI is like anything else in films – if it’s bad it shows but it is never a sin in itself. If your script has a 300 foot tall Surtur demolishing Asgard good luck doing that with die cast models and a guy in a red suit.

It has essentially allowed these stories to be told on screen.

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Ben, Dave, Todd

garjones wrote:

Saying that I get Al’s take in that superhero films tend to make it more obvious but I don’t really get the complaint in general. CGI is like anything else in films – if it’s bad it shows but it is never a sin in itself. If your script has a 300 foot tall Surtur demolishing Asgard good luck doing that with die cast models and a guy in a red suit.

I think this is the crux of it. In most of these films the CGI is usually very good, it’s just showing you something that you know couldn’t have been realised any other way, so your mind immediately rationalises it as CGI.

People who like to spot “obvious CGI” likely don’t notice the countless times it’s used to show something realistic 100% convincingly, where it’s essentially invisible.

I think that’s why the huge praise tends to come for things that look almost-but-not-quite like something that could exist in reality – Gollum or Hulk or whatever. It’s clear enough to the viewer that it’s CGI but it’s so close to realistic textures and behaviour that it almost touches being believably real.

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Todd, garjones

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JRCarter

If those were the best line readings Renner could manage then I’d hate to see the outtakes.

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Todd

I actually thought that was an excellent trailer. I wasn’t looking forward much to a Hawkeye show but I am now.

I was talking a LOT more than just the CGI. CGI is only part of the formulaic cookie cutter material.

I also mentioned “fancy technology, 3D graphics, spaceship dog fights, choreographed martial arts, and a climactic action move that starts this 70’s rock soundtrack, and some punchline at the end.”

It is just getting familiar, especially when you see them two or three in a row.

I will give Marvel that they are much more organized and have an actual plan and DC does not.

paul f wrote:

If the actual show has that fun Shane Black action movie at Christmas vibe, then I’m all in.

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Todd

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Todd

Wait, this show isn’t another M*A*S*H spin-off?  Aww.

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DavidM, Todd

Good trailer.

Loved the Rogers the Musical detail in the background.

Looks a more overt adaptation of the Fraction-Aja run, no bad thing.

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Todd

I saw the Rogers musical and thought of this:

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Todd

New Warrior’s Showrunner Revealed His Squirrel Girl—And Why the Show Got Scrapped

[Al-x]

Watching Endgame: The main three fight Thanos. Iron Man and Thor go down, leaving Cap by himself with a broken shield. Thanos gives his little speech that he will enjoy devastating the Earth. As Thanos’ army assembles behind him, Thanos thinks Cap is broken and just by himself when Cap’s earpiece (It still works after all that!) says “Cap… Look to your left!”

Then as you know, the portals open and the (dramatic music) cavalry army comes out.

Have to say it is a well done moment…
——

Then the war, some expository dialogue (in between battle no less). Interesting that Stark asks Strange about the 14M odds and is this the winning outcome. Strange says “If I tell you if won’t happen.” It’s the free will vs. playin out script thing again…

Then the stones switcheroo trick Stark does on Thanos etc…

———

I said this before: That was an epic somewhat the MCU answer to the GoT war episodes.

They actually restored reality.

How can you top that in the future phases?

What? Everyone vs. Galactus in another epic war?

Furthermore, what can DC do now with Darkseid given what Marvel already did with Thanos?

Can’t really be topped I have to say… Just my opinion.

——

A lot of talk about which timeline Steve went to to live with Peggy all those years… Just let him be happy.

They could do that quantum experimenting stuff to de-age Steve and make him young again (fountain of youth?) but that would cheapen everything.

—————————

The unsung hero: That parking lot storage rat that got into the van and accidentally freed Ant Man!!! The one that started it all. 😂😂😂

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.

[Al-x]

First it was Scorsese now this guy (the Dune director):

This “cut and paste” comment is similar to what I was saying before. When you see a few of the movies back to back you see elements and things that are formulaic: the 3D holograms, the “light show” energy battles, the choreographed martial arts, spaceships…

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/neill-blomkamp-calls-denis-villeneuve-a-fing-ahole-over-mcu-comments/1100-6496309/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.

Al-x wrote:

Furthermore, what can DC do now with Darkseid given what Marvel already did with Thanos?

What, you mean the way they totally mishandled him by turning him from one of the most memorable villains into a one-dimensional jobber for RDJ?

I’m sure someone could do better than that… u_u

[Al-x]

Actually, I remember the original Infinity Gauntlet story in the comics.

The Stones together on the glove could do a LOT more than just dissolve half the universe and bring it all back.

IMHO, this adaptation of that story was entertaining.
————

On a more serious note regarding exploitation…

You guys know from the Random Thread how pissed off I am about stealing ideas. This is about the same: exploitation.

The deals these comic creators had under contract. They get $5G while the movie based on their idea/concept makes $1B…

https://www.cbr.com/marvel-creators-reportedly-paid-5000-for-film-adaptations-their-work/amp/

https://gizmodo.com/report-disney-is-only-paying-comics-creators-5-000-fo-1847450512/amp

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.

[Al-x]

As for DC…

At this point they are better off making a few really good, high quality solo movies. A cool Batman movie (fingers crossed over this Robert Pattinson thing), a nice WW one (like the first one), a better Superman movie, that sort of thing.

Trying to round up quick haphazard “JLA vs Dardseid” movie will just… You know.

As for Snyder, hindsight is of course 20/20 but this pic makes a decent point:

There are the complaints from the black cyborg actor
though…

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.

[Al-x]

When Black Widow was first introduced in Iron Man 2, she was undercover as this applicant for Stark’s company etc.
After that scene where she did that flip with the guy in the boxing ring, Stark was turned on, Pepper Potts was sitting
next to him reading off Natasha’s record and Stark said “I want one!”

That scene got some backlash as to how Natasha was viewed in the MCU etc…

One of many mistakes made in the MCU.

————————–

Watching some Dr. Strange now…

Supposedly he is a very talented surgeon but an equally arrogant pr*ck.
They should have made a “What if?” on if he just concentrated on his driving.

Hate to have seen a Lamborghini like that get so smashed up!

The unsung hero award goes to that black physical Therapist who answered his question
and gave him the file of the other guy who got healed.

Then the Far East…stereotypical Eastern stuff and design.
White Westerner travels to Far East, learns some “woo-woo magic and Tibetan shamanism,” along with some philosophical double talk.
(Much thanks to Talent for War for that expression.)

His attitude, disbelief, lesson in humility, learns and then excels
reminded me of a little of Neo’s attitude at first with Morpheus, Luke and Yoda, his humble learning the ropes and then he becomes the leader.

Oh…Arya at that temple to learn to change faces in GOT.

Common trope.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.

Al-x wrote:

That scene got some backlash as to how Natasha was viewed in the MCU etc…

Did that really happen? I don’t recall any backlash regarding Nat’s character treatment in IM2

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Dave

[Al-x]

njerry wrote:

Did that really happen? I don’t recall any backlash regarding Nat’s character treatment in IM2

Oh ye with doubts…

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.

Tony Stark reacting that way, especially in one of his earlier appearances in the MCU timeline, is at least entirely within character.

For a truly gratuitous scene, let’s turn to Thor:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/oct/29/thor-dark-world-chris-hemsworth-topless

 

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Todd, Dave

In the comics and the movies, Black Widow has always used her sexuality as part of her set of skills to get what she wants and defeat her opponent. It’s even implied by her very name.

The fact that Stark reacts like that is not only in-character for him but shows how Natasha is able to disarm him effectively.

Another good scene that shows how Black Widow can remain in control of the situation while also apparently being ogled by unsuspecting men is her reintroduction in Avengers where she flips the interrogation scene on her captors.

To read these scenes as exploitative and sexist I think you have to be actively ignoring the context of the story and what we know about the characters.

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Travis M, njerry, Todd

I do agree but nowadays her introduction scene in the Avengers feels less effective and more, for lack of a better word, icky, knowing that Joss Whedon was directing it.

saga wrote:

I do agree but nowadays her introduction scene in the Avengers feels less effective and more, for lack of a better word, icky, knowing that Joss Whedon was directing it.

I don’t know. For all that Whedon sounds like an asshole and far from the feminist image he wanted to project, I don’t think that destroys the many great scenes that he wrote for his female leads.

It’s easy to forget that before Avengers, Black Widow didn’t have anywhere near the depth or complexity of character that that movie gave her. Whedon did a good job there I think. However much that turned out to be at odds with his own personal attitudes towards women.

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Travis M

Yeah, I didn’t have any problem with it at the time. For me, however, I have a hard time separating the art from the artist when it comes to things like Whedon’s misogyny and the portrayal of his female characters. Following this up with Age of Ultron and her sterilization (“think you’re the only monster on the team?”) becoming the main crux of her character seems even worse now.

Really, up until her solo movie her best MCU film was probably Winter Solider.

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Al-x

saga wrote:

Yeah, I didn’t have any problem with it at the time. For me, however, I have a hard time separating the art from the artist when it comes to things like Whedon’s misogyny and the portrayal of his female characters. Following this up with Age of Ultron and her sterilization (“think you’re the only monster on the team?”) becoming the main crux of her character seems even worse now.

I think that’s fair. I think her story was handled quite badly in Age of Ultron (although I liked the BW-Hulk relationship in general). And inevitably with someone like Whedon their real-life views and behaviour are going to colour your view of their work when it directly relates to that topic.

I agree on Winter Soldier too. She was used well there, and (unless I’m forgetting something) that was the only time where the MCU has really played with her untrustworthy nature as a defected super-spy, and explored the idea that she could actually be working against the heroes (even though it turned out to be a red herring).

Teaser says Marvel’s Avengers may soon fight a terrifying new threat

JRCarter wrote:

Teaser says Marvel’s Avengers may soon fight a terrifying new threat

Writer Mark Millar wrote in a newsletter that Marvel might adapt its Marvel Zombies into a live-action movie. Millar said that “(if my sources are correct) a little live-action Marvel Zombies further down the line, but you never heard that from me.”

I’m hoping Mark is wrong.

Are zombies still a thing? Didn’t they go the way of the flip-phone?

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Al-x, Todd

I think the What if? episode they just realeased should be more than enough Marvel Zombies. Only way I could potentially see it working is as part of a Deadpool movie where he gets thrown into the multiverse and at some point lands in the Marvel Zombie universe where he briefly teams with Hugh Jackman (the last surviving hero of that works due to the healing factor) to fight off a horde of zombie Avengers. Which also only works if you have RDJ and all of them actually playing the zombies. Otherwise I don’t want it.

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Todd

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Todd

[Al-x]

A pic of what is upcoming:

….and an interesting take on the implications of Steve and Peggy:

So Far, Marvel’s “Phase 4” Is Only Making Captain America’s Avengers: Endgame Ending Worse

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Al-x.

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Dave

And before all that, Eternals, of course.

Interesting that next year is so front-loaded after this year was so concentrated in the back half of the year.

Between Black Widow coming out on 9 July 2021 and Black Panther 2 coming out on 8 July 2022 there will have been seven MCU movies released within a single 12-month period. That’s kind of crazy.

And that’s not even counting all the TV stuff.

Yeah, the pandemic delayed a lot of the releases. I do wonder if they’re trying to get Phase 4 to a certain point before the real world catches up to Endgame, which was set in 2023, hence a bit of a bottleneck in 2022.

Of course, in recent times there would also have been X-Men and Star Wars movies taking up a few prime release dates each year and that is no longer the case… for now.

I think we’ve got The Goddamn Batman, Aquaman 2, Black Adam and Flash due out next year from DC as well.

This is the Marvel ‘Fantastic Four’ news we’ve been waiting for

JRCarter wrote:

This is the Marvel ‘Fantastic Four’ news we’ve been waiting for

The Fantastic Four news we’ve been waiting for is that some random guy on Twitter says we’ll get some news by the middle of 2022?

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Todd, DavidM, Dave