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Marvel Movies & TV: Phase Two
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Not my words but I agree:
Heres the thing, and don’t take this the wrong way as in just explaining my own opinion. It’s like I said, there are people who don’t understand, not truly, WHY Black Panther resonated so well. People read about or see images of kids and grown adults at the theater in tears when watching black panther and they don’t fully grasp the magnitude of how important this franchise is to people if you haven’t experienced it first hand what it’s like to see yourself represented like that.
I remember as a kid I used to wish I was white sometimes just so that I could feel that same feeling my friends who were white felt when they saw Spiderman, Batman, superman, and pretty much any hero or just character in general doing cool sh*t who also looked like them.
When you have it all the time it’s easy to, well take it for granted. I’m not a long time Black Panther fan, I actually didn’t learn about the character till I was browsing online one day in 2014 and happened upon him and then started researching him. Instantly I was intrigued and immediately after reading his wiki page I started looking online for any Black Panther comics I could get my hands on to buy. I couldn’t believe that such a character existed.
I became an instant fan. So while I haven’t waited my entire life to see BP specifically on sense of following his comics, I have been waiting my entire life to see a character who is truly one I want to aspire to be like.
This is more than just seeing him go to war with atlantis or joining the Avengers, or interacting with certain characters. This is about seeing T’Challa the man who from his franchise comes from a fantastical place, change it for the better, he is a King among kings, a warrior among warriors the GOAT.
And it’s about exploring this character, who has a ton of history and importance behind HIM, as he was the one who was holding his franchise together, now as a fan and a person who’s waited for such a character, have that taken away.
First there’s the tragedy of a truly wonderful person, I don’t get star struck or really care to meet any celebrities but Chad was one of very few on my list, but then also by this idea that there can only be one Black person occupying a certain space. Chadwick talked about that, wanting to break that mindset. But now exactly what he was working hard to break has just happened.
The a Black male led franchise with the potential (we already seen what it can do) to hit Spiderman, Batman, Superman, and Bond levels of success and household recognition, had had that very rare spot removed and it’s going to try and split it between characters that frankly don’t have any sort of weight behind them.
The one with the most, is M’Baku and he is nothing like his comic counterpart. They are trying to say Wakanda is bigger than T’Challa, he becomes a footnote in his own franchise while they try and make it work without any real Established.. anything to go off. Be it comics or even he MCU itself.
Every actor will always be compared to their predecessor when playing characters like T’Challa or Peter. That’s just how it is, but at the same time none of these characters are beholden to any actor.
Chadwick realised how important T’Challa was to people. You don’t need to see an interview with his spoon feeding it to know this, actions speak louder that words. When he talks about all my children and how his characters backstory, he could of kept quiet and got paid, instead he fought for change and more than stereotypes, he got fired but that led to his successor MBJ to get the character with better foundation and depth to him which led him to success.
In 42 Chad studied Robinson videos to see how he moved and slid into bases so he could get it right, and argued with the directors about how the stunt double wasn’t sliding how Robinson did in real life and they agreed to let him do it himself. For Black panther he fought to not have Wakandan speaking with a British accent and was willing to walk away if they didn’t relent. He turned down endorsements that he felt would hurt T’Challas positive image for young kid’s.
He’s done all of that worked so hard.. do you think he would really be cool with T’Challa dieing with him? After all that work? To rob people of that feeling they had wheb they left the theater for the the solo movie? Straight up, Disney f*cked up. This announcement was in bad taste. They waited less than 4 months after his passing and announced not only are they going to start filming next year but T’Challas out.
Under honoring a character Chad fought hard to get to the big screen. No ones allowed to play the character. Sure it sounds nice when they pretty up the words but they have just said that this character is not important enough to continue and what he brings to the table isn’t worth exploring. They say they want to Honor Chad while ignoring WHAT Chad was doing which was setting this character up for others to continue what he started and continue to inspire millions like he did.
You say they love the rich culture.. but not the Character, the Man who inspires greatness, the KING who inspired that greatness. Name another black hero that even matches up to T’Challas stature. No drugs, no baby mamas no gangs, or pimps, a good man with a good heart. People love Cap Because he represents american values. Well people love T’Challa Because he represents Black excellence and they took that character away from us because hey wanted to rush announcements and not let people have time (fans and the crew alike) to properly mourn
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IS the Black Panther not important enough to recast? if so, why? the why better be a damn good reason because saying a black man is not important enough is just the wrong thing to say.
I don’t think that’s the argument at all. I certainly haven’t heard anyone else suggest it.
I think it’s more about that version of the character having been both so popular and also having been played by someone who suffered such a high-profile sad death that they don’t want to appear crass by simply moving on with movies about BP as if nothing happened.
It’s similar to what Star Wars had to contend with when Carrie Fisher died. Yes, you could have just recast her in Episode IX but the actor is so strongly tied to the character that the focus would become all about that casting decision and it would seem a bit insensitive. They went for a more sensitive decision and I could see Marvel going for a similar acknowledgement in BP2.
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Falcon and Winter Soldier has a possible replacement for Cap.
One? try three… =P
Yeah, I just got a brilliant idea… why not take this opportunity to try something different? Let Shuri get the mantle, but not only her, how about a Black Panther Corps kind of deal with many of their wonderful actors also getting the mantle. I think it’s also a powerful message, as in “we’re all Black Panther” and that sort of thing, you know?
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IS the Black Panther not important enough to recast? if so, why? the why better be a damn good reason because saying a black man is not important enough is just the wrong thing to say.
I suspect the thinking is quite the opposite.
Normally in a situation like this or just general recasting of a lead the default position is just to delay. I doubt that if Tom Holland passed away suddenly they would be carrying straight on with the shoot with a new star. In the case of Heath Ledger with The Imaginarium of Dr Parnassus they changed the approach entirely with using multiple actors.
Black Panther was quite a watershed in being a film primarily with a black cast and writer/director that was a massive global hit (upending certain imagined ideas in Hollywood like, for example, Asian audiences don’t want to see a black lead). I think to delay that would feel like a knock back to the momentum it created and that’s how I imagine they came to this conclusion/solution.
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Ehhh… there’s quite a huge support movement for Depp… I wouldn’t call that decision an “easy” one. Lots of people are gonna be mad as fuck,
Is there? The only people I’ve seen getting worked up about it seem to be people who are upset that their vitriol against Amber Heard hasn’t been vindicated by the court decision, and who really wanted to be justified in hating her.
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It’s very hard to tell nowadays. There’s a lot of sound and fury that can be created by relatively small groups on the internet from all sides of the spectrum. Stuff I think passes the vast majority of people right by.
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Maybe I read too much into JR’s post and maybe I did not make myself clear enough but i don’t see the logic in writing a story called BP2 without Black Panther. I hope by the end of BP2 the MCU will have a new Black Panther. T’challa will die so Chadwick’s legacy will be unchanged. Both T’challa and Chadwick will be honored and cherished but Black Panther should go on.
Like I said earlier we may have a Cap who is not Steve Rogers and we may have a Thor who is not Odinson why shouldn’t we have a Black Panther who is not T’challa.
I don’t know what is going on in the minds of the MCU executives so this is totally hypothetical but subtle racism is still racism. Remember when we had discussions before BP and Captain Marvel about Marvel being too white male?
I don’t often agree with Jon but if DS2 and SM3 are going full bore into the Multiverse, why not insert a Multiversal BP played by Michael B Jordan so you can have your megastar to pick up where Chadwick left off. if I am not mistaken, there were serious talks about BP being the focal point of Phase 4 like IM was the focal point up to Endgame. Now you can continue that.
In the end, these are just my thoughts and they are full of Ifs, assumptions, and suppositions. Another maybe could be that I’ve lived most of my life being subtly racist and I am feeling guilty about it and I am creating a mountain out of a molehill.
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I hope by the end of BP2 the MCU will have a new Black Panther.
This could very well be the plot of the movie and therefore you don’t want to give it away. I mean in the comics lore it’s a position that has to be filled, in the first movie they established it wasn’t 100% primogeniture so T’Challa was challenged for the role after his father died.
They’ve done a couple with Hulk and War Machine but the MCU now seem more geared towards using legacy characters than recasting (and those two were driven by falling out with the actors) . We’ve all speculated as to who Black Panther could be so why give it away in a press conference?
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Maybe I read too much into JR’s post and maybe I did not make myself clear enough but i don’t see the logic in writing a story called BP2 without Black Panther. I hope by the end of BP2 the MCU will have a new Black Panther. T’challa will die so Chadwick’s legacy will be unchanged. Both T’challa and Chadwick will be honored and cherished but Black Panther should go on.
I expect that is what’ll happen.
My guess replacing him will first be a team effort, but at the end of the movie there’ll be a new Panther. But there’ll still be a team, and I hope the BP will be female (yes, Jon is not wrong about what will probably be the thinking there). I’m hoping for Nakia, though, not Shuri.
Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if they used the opportunity to change Wakanda into a democracy. The whole tribal fight-to-be-king thing was rather too anachronistic, and it’d make sense to use the story they have to do now to change that.
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I would agree in the case of Pirates of the Caribbean, Depp made that character and that franchise and I don’t think it would make sense to continue it without him.
But in a Harry Potter spinoff where Depp’s character has already been established as being able to change his appearance/actor I don’t think he’s quite as indispensable.
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Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if they used the opportunity to change Wakanda into a democracy. The whole tribal fight-to-be-king thing was rather too anachronistic, and it’d make sense to use the story they have to do now to change that.
I think Western politics over the last half decade have shown that democracy isn’t automatically a better system. Wakanda seems to have done pretty well with a monarchy, they’d be mad to change it.
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I think Western politics over the last half decade have shown that democracy isn’t automatically a better system.
What? Democracy isn’t the problem – it’s when democracy is subverted so that would-be-dictators get their own way anyway.
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Firing Depp could have a significant impact in their revenue
I don’t know, Depp wasn’t even trailed as being in the first one, he was a surprise reveal at the end. With him on the poster the second one dropped around $180m.
I agree he’s absolutely key to the success of Pirates, everyone watched those movies for Captain Jack, but for Fantastic Beasts I don’t really think him in or out will make any impact at all. They primarily need to make the 3rd film better and less of an info dump with poor structure.
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I think Western politics over the last half decade have shown that democracy isn’t automatically a better system. Wakanda seems to have done pretty well with a monarchy, they’d be mad to change it.
After the whole plot of the first movie was about how daftly easy it is for a madman to take over by defeating the king in combat? Yeah, it’s a really great system.
When Asgard, Atlantis, Latveria and Attilan become democracies.
Well, Asgard is a pretty shitty place in many ways (and its being a monarchy has caused a lot of problems), and Atlantis and Latveria are both villain dictatorships, so to speak. In contrast to Wakanda, none of these are examples to follow – quite the opposite.
I do agree where Attilan is concerned. Long overdue really, what with the eternal plot of Maximus usurping his wise philosopher-king brother.
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After the whole plot of the first movie was about how daftly easy it is for a madman to take over by defeating the king in combat? Yeah, it’s a really great system.
In fairness, that’s pretty much how the Tories approach it.
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After the whole plot of the first movie was about how daftly easy it is for a madman to take over by defeating the king in combat? Yeah, it’s a really great system.
In fairness, that’s pretty much how the Tories approach it.
Yes, but people respect Wakandans.
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Chadwick Boseman’s Final Performance as Black Panther Will Be in Disney+’s What If…? Series
We have not yet seen Chadwick Boseman’s final turn as T’Challa/Black Panther, which it has now been confirmed will come in Disney+’s animated Marvel series, What If…?
Boseman died on Aug. 28 at the age of 43, following a battle with colon cancer, which in his last four years progressed from Stage III to Stage IV. His final film performance was in Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom, which landed on Netflix this past weekend and was among the several projects he tackled “between countless surgeries and chemotherapy,” his family shared at the time of his passing.
Now, Marvel Studios chief Kevin Feige has affirmed to Emmy Magazine that Boseman — whose final live-action performance as Black Panther was in 2019’s Avengers: Endgame — voiced the Wikandan king and hero for What If…?, an animated anthology that explores fun, alternate takes on famous Marvel tales.
For example, Boseman’s T’Challa at one point finds himself suited up as Guardians of the Galaxy‘s Star Lord, as glimpsed in the trailer below.
“[He] came in about four times and recorded numerous episodes,” Feige told Emmy Magazine. “In hindsight, it’s very moving.”
Other MCU vets lending their pipes to What If…?, which will premiere in Summer 2021, include (but by no means are limited to!) Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury, Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes, Hayley Atwell as Peggy Carter, Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner/The Hulk, Chris Hemsworth as Thor and Karen Gillan as Nebula.
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Chadwick Boseman’s Final Performance as Black Panther Will Be in Disney+’s What If…? Series
We have not yet seen Chadwick Boseman’s final turn as T’Challa/Black Panther, which it has now been confirmed will come in Disney+’s animated Marvel series, What If…?
Boseman died on Aug. 28 at the age of 43, following a battle with colon cancer, which in his last four years progressed from Stage III to Stage IV. His final film performance was in Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom, which landed on Netflix this past weekend and was among the several projects he tackled “between countless surgeries and chemotherapy,” his family shared at the time of his passing.
Now, Marvel Studios chief Kevin Feige has affirmed to Emmy Magazine that Boseman — whose final live-action performance as Black Panther was in 2019’s Avengers: Endgame — voiced the Wikandan king and hero for What If…?, an animated anthology that explores fun, alternate takes on famous Marvel tales.
For example, Boseman’s T’Challa at one point finds himself suited up as Guardians of the Galaxy‘s Star Lord, as glimpsed in the trailer below.
“[He] came in about four times and recorded numerous episodes,” Feige told Emmy Magazine. “In hindsight, it’s very moving.”
Other MCU vets lending their pipes to What If…?, which will premiere in Summer 2021, include (but by no means are limited to!) Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury, Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes, Hayley Atwell as Peggy Carter, Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner/The Hulk, Chris Hemsworth as Thor and Karen Gillan as Nebula.
That’s really good, it would’ve felt weird if they had to recast him for this series.
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In that Odds article, the favorites are of course Krasinki and Blunt but #2 behind Krasinski is John David Washington. I haven’t seen Tenet so i am not completely informed about him but he does not strike as being a Reed type. The only lead role I know of for him is that Klu Klux Clan movie. Behind Blunt is a list of pretty blondes. I don’t know the guy in the lead for Ben(Stephen Graham) but Google tells me he taught Tom Hanks Scouse Anthony Ramos from Hamilton is the lead for Johnny.
If you rule out John and Emily, Marvel’s first family is a Black Man, Lily James(classic British beauty ), A Latino, and A Scouse
If I am just being old fashioned and insensitive, I apologize but i think it is stretching the family concept a bit here.
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I think they should cast Joseph Gordon Levitt as Johnny Storm, then get French Stewart to play Ben, Kristen Johnston as Sue and John Lithgow as Reed.
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Wayne Knight as Doctor Doom!
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Get William Shatner in as the Big Giant Galactus and we’re all set.
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‘Nuff said.
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Buzz Lightyear of Star Command
Sorry, I don’t watch Star Trek.
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Buzz Lightyear of Star Command
Sorry, I don’t watch Star Trek.
That’s Star Wars, you asshole.
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Buzz Lightyear of Star Command
Sorry, I don’t watch Star Trek.
That’s Star Wars, you asshole.
Just when I thought I’d squeezed every compliment out of 2020. Thanks, brother!
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While lurking on the Byrne Robotics forums (like I regularly do), I found this topic:
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56969
One of the posters suggested Levin Rambin for Sue Storm, even posted this photmanip:
Another suggested January Jones might have made a good Sue once.
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Lots of fans see Wood as Jean Grey.
She is a little bit of a bland actress though. Like many ingenues though, she has improved and gotten a bit more distinction, but often it is hard to tell her apart from the crowd of skinny blonde actresses around when she showed up.
As far as Sue Storm, a lot depends on what period in their lives. I mean, in the original comic, Reed was like in his 40’s, Ben in his 30’s, but Sue was barely in her 20’s and I think Johnny was still in High School. What a team to break into a highly secured launch site and steal a rocket to Mars!
The actress I think has most broken away from the mold is Amanda Seyfried. With her roles in movies like Chloe and recently Mank, she’s the most intriguing option. Even in bad movies where she’s the lead like Jennifer’s Body and Red Riding Hood, she didn’t play the roles the way I expected. I don’t think she’s above making a Marvel movie, either.
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Well, she did turn down the role of Gamora in Guardians of the Galaxy.
That was apparently mainly because she didn’t want to be green though.
Huh. That would’ve been different casting. Kinda glad things turned out the way they did on that one, but I could see her for Sue.2 users thanked author for this post.
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Someone on that topic suggested Rose McIver.
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An I, Zombie reunion!
Ravi as Reed and Liv as Sue. They work great together. Major could be Ben and Blaine could be Johnny. GENIUS!
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Ravi as Reed and Liv as Sue. They work great together. Major could be Ben and Blaine could be Johnny. GENIUS!
David Anders is one of those actors who I always think is much older than he is. He was barely 20 when he was first on Alias!
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Marvel’s ‘Moon Knight’: Indie Auteurs Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead Board as Directors (Exclusive)
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Fifteen years ago, you probably needed an origin story to explain why the heroes had special powers, but these days the concept of super heroes in movies is established enough for it not to be necessary. People can watch a movie with James Bond or Indiana Jones or Robin Hood without having their skills explained, and the same is probably true for the Fantastic Four.
Also: Their origin is crap, so just skip it instead of wasting time to make up one that is less crap. Spend the money on making Mr. Fantastic’s powers not look really cheap or really creepy or booth.
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I think their origin story is far less interesting
Their origin is crap, so just skip it instead of wasting time to make up one that is less crap
Those re very excelent points… I changed my mind… nuke the origin crap… and for the love of jeebus SKIP Doom’s origin too… they always fuck that one up.
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But those are questions you can answer in all kinds of ways – from a intro-credits collage (see: Hellboy) to VO narration to dialogue in the movie, there’s a lot of ways to answer those question if you feel like you need to.
Yup. There are a variety of ways you can approach it without completely ignoring it.
I think the backlash against repeated origins really comes from The Amazing Spider-Man’s approach which was devoting most of the running time to tell the same story we’d seen 10 years earlier.
Funnily enough though rather than being dated I think the FF origin makes more sense in 2021 than it did in 1961. Cast Reed as an Elon Musk type character who’s made loads of money from his inventions and can afford his own space flight is more believable than what Stan thought up.
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Yeah and I get all of that but I think what most people mean with ‘don’t do the origin’ is mainly to do with devoting a large section of the movie to it. I’ve heard nothing but praise for the Incredible Hulk approach of just putting it in the opening credits.
Even with non-linear though if Marvel went to reboot Iron Man with new actor this year I don’t really want to see anywhere near the same amount of time spent in that cave and building the armour etc.
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I
Still hoping they’ll somehow figure out a way to go with the FF as an already established team of rockstar superheroes and not do the origin again.
I hate the term “rockstar superheroes” because I have zero interest in seeing superheroes cope with fame, and the FF aren’t remotely “rockstar.” They’re respected and admired but seeing even Johnny treated as a “rockstar” would be thoroughly obnoxious.
I’d like for them to be already established in the MCU because I see the FF as a cornerstone of the Marvel universe, but then you need to find a plausible explanation for them not even being mentioned up until now.
So maybe they should get their powers in 1961 during the space-race, but then disappear into deep space/the microverse/the Negative Zone during one of their adventures, then finally find a way back only to find that 70 years have passed. The problem then is that they end up like Cap, but since Steve is no longer active, maybe that’s okay.
Anyway, hopefully some actual screenwriters can find a better solution than some random dudes on a messageboard…
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Well, that depends on whether you think that every character needs their origin told. Do we need to know how Columbo became such a shrewd detective
Personally I’m waiting for the “Young Columbo” TV series, where a teenage punk learns deductive reasoning and finds an old raincoat.
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Well they have actually done that with Perry Mason so it’s not a huge stretch.
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Anyway, hopefully some actual screenwriters can find a better solution than some random dudes on a messageboard…
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but seeing even Johnny treated as a “rockstar” would be thoroughly obnoxious
I liked that about the 2005 (?) movie.
I liked hardly anything about that movie, that included. I just don’t think it has anything to do with the FF – it fits much better with post-modern bullshit like The Authority.
I don’t know, that celebrity angle was present even in the early Lee/Kirby FF – they get letters from an adoring public, and I’m sure the PR angle is at least partly behind them switching to the blue costumes in FF#3 – and has been progressively updated in the comics over the years, with people making comics about them and action figures of them and Johnny becoming a reality TV star and so on.
I wouldn’t have a problem with the movie reflecting that aspect (and modernising it) in some way.
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Sounds good but runs the risk of a story based around Doom hacking into the Four’s social media to discredit them and boost his own follower numbers.
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Sounds good but runs the risk of a story based around Doom hacking into the Four’s social media to discredit them and boost his own follower numbers.
And in the end, Reed outsmarts him and Doom is deplatformed.
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I think it’s fair to not like it, but saying those ideas have nothing to do with the FF isn’t supported by their comics history. It’s always been a certain part of who they are as a team.
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