Joker – SPOILER discussion

Topic

Carry over from old-MW; discuss ‘Joker’ here with spoilers.

Replies

[paul f]

Reposting from the old board:

I thought Phoenix was great, and there were some very good moments, but I didn’t enjoy the movie. I don’t think I’ve ever sighed and rolled my eyes so many times in two hours. All of the unreliable narrator stuff and Scorsese nods just annoyed me.

Everything with the Waynes was awful, especially having to see that alley scene again. All of the Trump nods just felt pointless.

I liked the De Niro bits, but I didn’t think the clips of Arthur’s stand-up were bad enough to go viral in the way the movie shows. He’s awkward and bad, but the clips shown on TV are so short that you can’t really tell how bad and awkward the full set was.

Aside from De Niro, the supporting cast are mostly wasted. Shea Whigham and Bill Camp are great in their few scenes, but Zasie Beetz gets nothing to do.

I saw this in a mostly sold out large screen, and it was the most people I’ve ever seen have the smallest reaction to anything. Nobody in my screening ever seemed excited by anything on screen, and most of the laugh moments were scattered at best.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by paul f.

I wonder if the movie would still have worked if it was not about the Joker or was set now rather in the past? A mash-up of Taxi Driver and King of Comedy along with a little Fight Club and some Falling Down thrown in.

I’m surprised there hasn’t been more mention of the abandoned Aronofsky/Miller film project for BATMAN: YEAR ONE. It’s a very similar approach, but the violent loner would almost certainly have been considered a hero or antihero much more than the Joker.

The Story of Aronofsky’s Batman Year One

Batman: Year One: did Darren Aronofsky’s unmade Dark Knight noir show us the future of superhero movies?

The most interesting thing for me about the film, aside from the performance (which is unsettling but excellent) is the barely touched on politics.

This was touched on in White Knight too but Batman (or Thomas, as it were,) as an analogue for the rich and Joker as the inevitable response from the poor is an interesting idea to add to the mythos

An article on the use of a Gary Glitter track in the movie:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/shortcuts/2019/oct/07/could-gary-glitter-really-make-hundreds-of-thousands-from-the-joker-film

[Ben]

This dude has clearly never read a DC Comic:
Joaquin Phoenix Joker must be isolated from Batman DC comics

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Ben.

I finally saw this tonight. I was really looking forward to it but sadly I found it very disappointing, outside of Phoenix’ committed performance.

It felt like a film that desperately wanted to look like it had Something To Say, but actually had nothing to say; at least, nothing insightful or original. All the good bits felt like they were cribbed from other, better movies, and used as a sort of shorthand here to remind you of those movies in a failed attempt to convince you that this one is in their league.

Also, I think it was a mistake to introduce the Waynes into the story. Any other invented characters could have taken their place, but making it Thomas and Bruce Wayne (and Martha and Alfred) immediately becomes a huge distraction and seems to exist just to let this movie do the origin scene yet again.

It’s a shame as on paper I can see how some of these ideas would work. It feels like there’s a better story in here trying desperately to get out, but it just doesn’t.

Well, I liked Joker.
The subway shooting and the aftermath of that scene was terrific.

The tag for the Golden Lion is the best post-credits scene any superhero film so far.

I think this movie will face a generational gap… anyone old enough to have seen other, probably better, movies of that kind I’m guessing ain’t gonna like it all that much… however, for younger people, this might be their first foray into these type of character-study movies, so it’s possible they’ll be more impressed with it…

You might be right there. This might seem fresher to someone who is seeing all these ideas for the first time.

[Jon]

Well it would at least explain why critics aren’t all that impressed while the general audiences are… I’m guessing this might seem like a bland Scorsese clone to a lot of them.
 
Also… spoilers obviously…

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Jon.

Helen and I just left the cinema after seeing Joker.

I thought it was a good movie, a well made film. An uncomfortable watch at times but understandably so. If it had been an indie film without the DC link it would certainly be getting some buzz but it is the DC element that is dragging most of the audience in.

I tend to agree with what has been said upthread about the inclusions of The Waynes. I think that the scene between Arthur and Bruce didn’t need to be there and was very clunky. I didn’t mind seeing the alley scene again, it wasn’t dwelt on but slotted the timelines together nicely.

I am confused by the reaction some people are having to the film, the violence is not over the top or overused. It felt realistic, which fits the film, but a cause for leaving the screening? Fuck off!

I personally liked what Phoenix’s Joker became, there were shades of Ledger in it but at the same time a familiarity to the Joker of Killing Joke and Dark Knight Returns.

This may just be me but I couldn’t help but think of Heath Ledger dancing around in Ten Things I Hate About You when Arthur/Joker was dancing down the steps.

I was not certain how to take the final scene, was the entire thing just another delusion (like the dates?), or was this during his time at the hospital before the film, or was it after everything had taken place?

So, did all the heightened security prevent any violent incidents around the release of JOKER in theaters, or was it really an overreaction and there never was any real chance anyone was going to do anything at this movie any more than any other?

Police heighten security around Joker release

That’s pretty great.

That’s brilliant.

Finally saw it, Phoenix really gave 100% per cent, but I didn’t enjoy the movie. My thoughts echo most of what PaulF already posted.

It all makes sense. -C pic.twitter.com/UXlJAjdsFf

— Scare-frillas 🎃 (@Schaffrillas) October 18, 2019

Really liked this. Sucks it got saddled with the incel narrative based on trailers, it’s not trying to address that issue at all.

Phoenix is brilliant, I loved the physicality of his role. The slow burn progression of his character was well written, too.

The movie is very on the nose with its politics but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Depending on the subject matter, an on the nose approach is preferable and I think that applies here. There’s that great scene in Widows where Colin Farrell drives 2 min from a rally in the projects to the mansion homebase of his political campaign and the camera stays outside the car the whole time to show the swift progression from poverty to wealth. Joker has a similar unflinching bluntness to it that I admired.

Well, you’re in a country that has a mass shooting a day, any time, any place so yeah, all bets were off, with or without the extra security.

We turned the Joker stair-dancing scene into a commercial for boner pills. You’re welcome. pic.twitter.com/DTmZoxuRwc

— formemenotyou (@formemenotyou) October 22, 2019

Not for me, but clearly it’s for millions of others.
.
I can see this as a student film, but with the millions of added dollars that made the costumes, locations and actors all A rather that C, but it’s still a Scorsese fan film with a clown face.
.
I wont mind if Phoenix gets the Oscar, he did quality work, but let’s see who else gets nominated?