Discuss Hickman’s X-Men (now with 90% less Hickman!) here.
X-Men – Inferno and beyond
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Reading 3 months behind on Marvel Unlimited. Basically just buy the books by the British writers. The Gillen book is excellent, the Spurrier and Ewing ones are very good.
Tini Howard’s book is the same old nonsense, random things happen with no regard to past continuity and no sense. I am torturing myself reading this shit because I love the Captain Britain characters and all it is doing is dancing on their graves. Merlin was a deep and complex character who is now a moustache twirling villain that loves racism. Roma was a reluctant leader stepping into her father’s role with a great sense of honour, now she lounges around on sofas with half her tits hanging out not giving a shit.
This book is truly awful and gets worse every issue.
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This book is truly awful and gets worse every issue.
Thanks for reading it, so we don’t.
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The whole Krakoa setup takes the titles away from the Westchester school setting for a while. A needed respite imho.
Hickman left a scene in 2021 that was left dangling upon his exit and Al Ewing is picking up on it in the Red title and
using it well although it may not be what Hickman intended. Al Ewing, Kieron Gillon… OK!Early in Krakoa, some characters that have been mutants for decades have been “discovered” now as non mutant. I take it that
they have been conveniently sidelined so as not to complicate the stories. Not exactly lazy writing, but to stop readers
from saying “Why isn’t he/she/they in the Krakoa story?”Now there is this upcoming Dark Web crossover, and after that the Sinister story.
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Eh, age we’re now Dave, what’s 18 months? 4-5 years is still in the ballpark for X-blocks. I’ll happily have it go longer though.
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I understand the profit maximizing motive, boost sales, but too many epic crossover extravaganzas that only end up in marginal tweaks that will be changed the next retcon/reset… Much ado about nothing in the end.
I guess you have to consider whether lasting changes are the best metric of whether a story is worthwhile or not. Some of my favourite superhero comics have been ones that don’t have much of a lasting change on the status quo but are enjoyable yarns in their own right.
(And given how fluid continuity is in superhero comics anyway, the persistence of a lasting impact from any story is probably only a matter of time.)
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Don’t prematurely age me more than I am already!
Thanks for that Dave, I was also panicking slightly. 😂
I wonder if they will go for a reset that quickly, there are storylines to resolve but the X-Men have been selling much better in this era than they had for a decade.
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I wonder if they will go for a reset that quickly, there are storylines to resolve but the X-Men have been selling much better in this era than they had for a decade.
That certainly seemed to be the thinking behind spinning it all out post-Hickman. While it remains successful and popular I don’t see why they would end it all and change tack.
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I’d like to think Fall of X is far from the end for this X-block.
They need to do Massacre of X first, right?
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Fall of X?
Now I know.
I understand the profit maximizing motive, boost sales, but too many epic crossover extravaganzas that only end up in marginal tweaks that will be changed the next retcon/reset…
Much ado about nothing in the end.
Then why are still buying it Al? Your posts make it sound like torture that you’re compelled to do.
There are excellent indie superheroes. Invincible is one, Radiant Black another, but the best one by far is Astro City. All three would give you the more substantial, lasting story you appear to be after.
In what posts did I make it all out to be a chore?
Not a chore (more like the common critique) but just to check out what they are up to these days.Hickman’s idea of Krakoa was what intrigued me back into the titles. Then all these new interesting characters, new implications, and away from Westchester.
The main issues of Judgement Day were Ok. I expected it to be about attack and counterattack, and while there were a few issues like that, it wasn’t in entirety. Many said it lasted a few weeks too long and could have been streamlined.
Fwiw… There is a reset plot device in place already. It’s only a matter of time before they go to it.
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Reading 3 months behind on Marvel Unlimited. Basically just buy the books by the British writers. The Gillen book is excellent, the Spurrier and Ewing ones are very good.
Tini Howard’s book is the same old nonsense, random things happen with no regard to past continuity and no sense. I am torturing myself reading this shit because I love the Captain Britain characters and all it is doing is dancing on their graves. Merlin was a deep and complex character who is now a moustache twirling villain that loves racism. Roma was a reluctant leader stepping into her father’s role with a great sense of honour, now she lounges around on sofas with half her tits hanging out not giving a shit.
This book is truly awful and gets worse every issue.
This is how I felt reading Howard’s Death’s Head.
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Al, most of us in the thread know that it’ll all get undone at some point, we’re just enjoying the ride until then.
Well as it is, (Obiwomble isn’t it?) I was just saying that the exit strategy is already set.
Looks like it will happen after this “Fall of X”. I hope not but the Utopia sanctuary, council politics and intrigue stories
can only go for so long. -
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Al, most of us in the thread know that it’ll all get undone at some point, we’re just enjoying the ride until then.
Well as it is, (Obiwomble isn’t it?) I was just saying that the exit strategy is already set.
Looks like it will happen after this “Fall of X”. I hope not but the Utopia sanctuary, council politics and intrigue stories
can only go for so long.Ben works fine Al.
It’s hard to know how Fall of X plays out in advance. There was shifts in the Decimation era, but the era kept going. Could be so here, but it’ll be ages before I get around to reading it.
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IGN just did a comics of 2023 vid. They briefly covered both Sins of Sinister and Fall of X.
Info on Fall of X was limited but it was talked of as the finale to Act I / start of Act II.
Which sounds good as that suggests Marvel have no interest in wrapping up this X-era just yet.
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Quentin Quire’s gonna be going through some changes:
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Sounding like it’ll be a suitable blow out finale for this phase of the X-books.
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Deniz Camp has an X-mini!
I'm writing Cable, Bishop, and the CHILDREN OF THE VAULT for @MightyBrunstad & @marescaluca and the X Offices, for the Fall of X. I'm really happy with the work so far, and I hope you will be too. https://t.co/2uykpJrjYZ
— Deniz Camp (@DenizCamp) April 14, 2023
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Catching up with Percy’s Wolverine, I’m shocked that Marvel actually went ahead and published this. It’s really fucking dark, with arguably one of the X-Men’s biggest characters going full on bad guy. I quibble about how this character could have fallen so far, given he was the voice of reason so often in the past, and I think they’ve already telegraphed how this story will ultimately end, but the journey there is horribly fascinating. Gruesome and ugly, but you can’t turn away. I blitzed through 7 issues (#26 – 32) of this back to back this afternoon. Eager to see what happens next.
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Catching up with Percy’s Wolverine, I’m shocked that Marvel actually went ahead and published this. It’s really fucking dark, with arguably one of the X-Men’s biggest characters going full on bad guy. I quibble about how this character could have fallen so far, given he was the voice of reason so often in the past, and I think they’ve already telegraphed how this story will ultimately end, but the journey there is horribly fascinating. Gruesome and ugly, but you can’t turn away. I blitzed through 7 issues (#26 – 32) of this back to back this afternoon. Eager to see what happens next.
I’m currently making my way through all the x-books, starting from house of x/powers of x. I know there’s a lot of guff to come but Percy’s XForce and Wolverine books are two that I’m looking forward to reading.
The Marvel Unlimited and DC Infinite apps are great, to the extent where last months box of comics are still sitting in a pile untouched as I’ve pretty much just been reading on the apps for the past 3 weeks.
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Yeah. I often have to remind myself that I have physical comics to read too. A rather alarming and growing stack of them.
I never had this problem with ComiXology – probably the reverse in fact where my digital to read pile grew exponentially, and I still haven’t read all of those even though I can’t remember when I last bought something over there.
But, with the Marvel and DC subscription services I’m always on them. Reading new releases and catching up on older titles that I missed or overlooked originally. DC Infinite Ultra has been a game changing experiences for me as a reader.
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Read the first 5 issues of Legion of X yesterday and was positively surprised how much I enjoyed reading about characters I don’t care about. Soap Opera plus 2000AD weirdness.
It does seem that X-Men + Immortal + Legion are three solid runs. I thought I should be reading X-men Red but that didn’t grab me, and seems to be sitting on the side a little. I it’s riding out the plot threads that seem to be what would have been in a SWORD comic if it existed – and seems a little scattered.
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I think that’s fair. Ewing seems to like his space opera and yeah he’s continuing themes from his other ‘space based’ books as much as the X-Men canon. I think I like it more than you though despite that.
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Reading X-Factor 3 (dawn of x) this morning …..I think dropped it after issue 2 last time as I don’t remember reading this one. It’s quite a nice character driven smaller story, which was much needed across the line at this stage.
One thing that’s stuck in my craw a bit with the whole Krakoa thing is that they automatically assume that EVERY mutant would just up sticks and move there. ‘Just like that’. Like it’s not a big decision to move to another country let alone a mutant island that will be a target for the entire time you live there.
What also annoys me a bit is the cult aspect. Basically taking kids away from their parents. They dealt with it a bit in the XMen/Fantastic Four crossover, but this notion that Franklin is a mutant so he should just leave his fucking family behind, a family who love and care for him and who have treated him great his whole existence.You’d kill any fucker who came for your kids like that.
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So Fall of X, it looks like it runs August to December, possibly triggered by the 2023 Hellfire Gala. Series of minis plus tie-ins in the ongoing titles.
No Alpha / Omega issues but looks closer to Age of Apocalypse than something like Swords of X. Number of strands, probably weaving in and out of each other, but you don’t have to get them all.
For myself? Will go for a nice, fat Omnibus next year.
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The storytellers and storytelling has broadened which can be interesting, but I need to read authors I don’t like and bad (for me) stories to know what’s going on. What happened to Moira? I need to read ten lives/deaths of Wolverine. I tried and got about halfway. Boy it sucked.
With the Sinister splinters I think need to catch up with Red and Legion of X, as well as Immortal and X-men proper, but maybe there is more? It needs a map of what needs to be read – like the mutant massacre diagram. Wolverine seems to have got better and interesting again in the last three issues – why couldn’t have Xlives/Deaths been written as interestingly seeing that Percy can actually write? But, clones, I am so over clones.
To summerise.
- storytelling in the core books: good
- leaking into the less good books: bad
- clones: boring now.
- Wolverine: mostly meh
- please don’t make me read: Iron man
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The writers who picked up on Hickman’s work did Ok overall.
Some stories… imho, we really didn’t need Judgement Day nor Sins of Sinister.
Some concepts were interesting: Not all mutants viewed Krakoa as a Utopia sanctuary. Some didn’t feel welcome there.
Parts of it did get rather dark:Poachers who mutilated mutants and used severed body parts to trick the Krakoa gates to get in. A black market selling mutant parts. Mad scientists types who mutilated and experimented on mutants. Some of the time travel stories were a bit much. Abuse of cloning and resurrections.Some unlikely villains, but then again the writers had to reach for them because characters like Emma, Shaw, Apocalypse, etc. all became allies on the Council.
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Who needs Bleeding Cool when Marvel.com has a 10 Most Shocking Moments of Hellfire Gala 2023 article up within a day of its release?
Seriously, no joke. Marvel are spoiling their own book.
I just read it and tbh:
It was their answer to the Game of Thrones “Red Wedding” episode.
I just wish I had the notes on Hickman’s entire Krakoa arc to compare…
And… That issue reminded me a little of the Marc Millar Ultimates issue were the team was “thoroughly” defeated
and the country humiliated. And his X-Men run where the mansion was completely devastated, team taken away… -
Have now caught up on the OHCs, fuller reviews over in the trades thread.
I like some of the post-HoX / PoX stories but many do not work. The biggest of those are Hickman’s, followed by Howard’s Excalibur.
The most consistently fun author for me was Duggan, who ran with the ideas in a fun way in both Marauders and Cable. Some of Hickman’s ideas were good, like the mutants going to Davos, others like the Crucible concept I disliked greatly.
One of the big concepts that worked well first time out in HoX-PoX was the resurrections. As the stories went on, that delivered reduced returns.
Not sure how much further I’ll stay on these books now as the last couple of OHCs were a depressing read. I suppose one advantage of reading in OHC format I do get to see where it is roughly going while not seeking out major spoilers.
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I see Tom Brevoort is replacing Jordan White as editor on the x Line….
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Yep, which says to me the Krakoa era is winding down. Most of the big concepts have gone back in the box too.
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How you finding the Fall of X stuff Al?
Starting from the events of this year’s Hellfire Gala and the fallout…
So far, it’s Ok.
it just gets to me a little (as I mentioned) about Kitty Pryde and who she is now.
Some interesting things going on with Ms. Marvel, Pryde, Firestar being covert.
Emma and Stark pairing, Cable and Bishop…
The situation looks bleak for the mutants and heroes taking their sides.I don’t get all the issues, just the recaps from podcasts and YouTube videos
But I will be getting the return of Apocalypse, see where the Children of the Vault goes…1 user thanked author for this post.
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Children of Vault written by former SFL combatant Deniz Camp. Just read #1 but I am liking guerrilla Bishop. Like Asgardian Legend of X involving new mutants. X RED is interesting with the war on Arakko.
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After the Fall of the House X is Rise of Powers of X.
Dammit, I’m intrigued enough to stay on this train:
https://x.com/Marvel/status/1713274929041272966?s=20
Better info here:
https://comicbook.com/comics/news/marvel-reveals-how-the-x-mens-krakoa-era-will-end/
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The X-Men Blue: Origins that came out is very good
Great dialogue between Kurt and Mystique.
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Some of the titles that came out, and some unlikely characters that might be allies to the mutant cause against ORCHIS in the final battle. The payoff should be HUGE!
But I still want to know Hickman’s whole arc to compare the two.
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Reading the latest issues of the Krakoa storyline.
All these small resistance cells, about to unite against Orchis.
Not to forget some unlikely allies who just might come through when the time is right (like cavalry)
The last showdown might be like one of the “Game of Thrones” epic war episodes. Or like Avengers Endgame with the portals all
opening.I want to see whether the writers can give Krakoa a good payoff or a dud.
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Reading the latest batch
Some of these limited issue titles are like the side missions in a video game.
But things are coming together. Some side stories are being resolved, a few characters have been “restored” for the finale.
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This artist Phil Noto is good but I’m sorry not for sequential art action scenes. He’s not John Cassaday to name just one. This just does not fit Noto.
There are notable differences with some of the writers succeeding Hickman in their treatment of some characters and their powers…
Some fans note that Moira did die in pre Krakoa alternate realities 🤣These Orchis henchmen are being killed left and right like ants. How many are there? No mercy because they are fascists.
But Nimrod has been this “brick wall” to all the mutants. I want Nimrod to get his so badly.
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I agree. It’s pretty much exactly what I would have expected from Brevoort’s office though.
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Catching up on Fall Of X, we’re at the point of the story where the tide is turning in the favour of our heroes. It’s fun to see this happening, although as I am once again only reading a handful of titles as opposed to the whole shebang it feels a bit haphazard and disjointed.
Duggan and Gillen are clearly not the writers that Hickman is, but they are doing an admirable job of bringing the story home. I just wish Fall of The House of X and Rise of The Powers of X had been left to stand on their own two feet as a conclusion, instead of having a whole line of tie in issues. It’s hard to keep track of it all and it hurts the readability of the duology.
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If it wasn’t for the very patchy X-Men run, the mess that is X of Swords and the disaster that is Inferno, I might be inclined to rank Hickman higher than Gillen – whose stuff I have yet to get to- and Duggan, who’s an under-appreciated X-writer.
But as it is? Hickman couldn’t follow up HoX-PoX well, where Duggan had two good ones – Marauders and Cable.
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It is just as the comic writer who originally said that when a writer is given a comic run, he/she can do whatever but towards the end, they must wrap things up and leave it as it was for the next creator. Like a kid given an hour with a toy chest, the last few minutes all the toys must go back in the chest for the next kid.
So some characters have had their powers restored or came back to life just in time for the finale. It is nice though to see this whole Krakoa story bring in non mutant heroes/teams to join in the cause and attack Orchis. If all goes well, it might be an epic finale with all the Marvel heroes and a villain on the same side.
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From the latest Krakoa related stories: You can tell some storylines are being rushed as it all is wrapped up by 700.
Now someone very unlikely and out of character has switched sides (?). The payoff finale now has to deliver.1 user thanked author for this post.
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As we get closer to the end of Fall of X the storytelling seems to be getting increasingly patchy and plot driven. As I’ve made it this far I’ll ride it out to the end, but I’m disappointed in some of the choices being made both creatively and narratively “in universe”.
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Sigh, Brevoort has to be Brevoort.
Word is all the new, post-Krakoa X-books lead to a big 2025 X-event.
Yeah, I think I’m going to be jumping off X-Men obce again.
You act surprised.
This is the current state of Big Two comics now, and has been for close to 20years. Constant relaunches and events every few months is the new norm.
Along with the price hikes, these are the things that drove me to drop Big Two books.
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Word is all the new, post-Krakoa X-books lead to a big 2025 X-event. Yeah, I think I’m going to be jumping off X-Men obce again.
Reminds me of times past. Whenever Marvel had their big crossover X event like AoA, Inferno, or that huge Genosha storyline Xtinction Agenda with so many parts and multiple titles, the last issue that wrapped it all up was always the time to take a clean break from all the X titles before a new storyline starts and (maybe) get back to it much later on.
Say what you will about Grant Morrison as a writer, but his slogan “Magneto was right” still resonates.
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Say what you will about Grant Morrison as a writer, but his slogan “Magneto was right” still resonates.
People always miss off the final word from that quote, “wing”.
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Say what you will about Grant Morrison as a writer, but his slogan “Magneto was right” still resonates.
People always miss off the final word from that quote, “wing”.
The latter part should be
“about_______”https://bamsmackpow.com/posts/i-m-sorry-but-magneto-does-have-a-point-in-x-men-97-01hxh2ts9b72
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So it is done
But… if it was Moira’s mutant power to reset the timeline, why doesn’t Kang notice? Or some of the cosmic beings? Anyway…
The whole thing was rushed and it showed.
Back in the day, when there were these huge X events encompassing all the X-titles, the finale was a good time to take a clean break from all the titles before they all started with something new. All New All Different . 🤣
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Wolverine #50 wrapped up the big “Sabretooth War” storyline, with a pretty intense showdown. Whilst the fight was fun I do wish it hadn’t taken 10 issues to get here – there were moments of brilliance in there but lots of dross that I could have done without too, especially at $5 an issue. There is a nice epilogue from Percy to his run though which brought a smile to my face.
Gillen tried his best with Rise of the Powers of X, but couldn’t quite hit it out of the park the way Hickman did at the start of this whole affair. I didn’t read his X-Men Forever though so feel like I might have missed a few pieces of his storyline that may have made it more coherent overall.
Whilst Duggan’s Fall of the House of X was a bit of a disjointed mess, I did enjoy his run on X-Men throughout the Fall (and his Uncanny Avengers mini-series was fun too). Short 1 or 2 parters, with a variety of different artists, telling stories focused on a handful of characters whilst the big events were occuring in the various mini-series. It was a good approach. The big #35 proved to be a nice captstone on the run, tying up some loose ends and effectively saying goodbye to Krakoa.
And, with that, I’m done with the X-Books for the time being (other than a few outstanding mini-series that still need to wrap up). I’ll never say never cos I do love the mutant books when they’re on form, but I’ve little interest in what Brevoort’s team are serving up. Maybe it’s finally time to hit Claremont’s original run on Uncanny (plus New Mutants, Wolverine, X-Factor, Excalibur) that I’ve been super mega trade waiting on in Omnibus format.
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I nearly have Claremont’s run assembled, just X-Tinction Agenda omnibus to nab.
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The X-Tinction Agenda Omnibus is a difficult one for me. Jim Lee’s artwork on his three issues of that crossover were amazing, but I really struggled with the other six parts. Arthur Adams’ annual in the four part “Days of Future Present” was likewise brilliant, but the other three parts much less so. The rest of the omni is filled with random stuff that I have litte to no interest in. It’s awfully tempting to get it for completeness, but a handful of issues for £80 (or so) is a bit rich, especially when I have them in tpb already.
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