Hickman’s X-Men – Dawn of X

Topic

One of the most active comics threads in old-MW! We can continue our discussion of HoXPoX here.

New issue out today!

Replies

Anonymous wrote:

I feel like no one likes the X-men as much me and Mike

They’re in my DNA

RossS wrote:

New Mutants was definitely the weakest of the number ones for me so far as well. Just didn’t really feel like there was much substance there.

Excalibur was the weakest for me but maybe New Mutants is playing heavily into nostalgia too, love the characters, liked the faux Bill Sienkiewicz artwork.

I actually thought of you Gar as I read New Mutants, as I thought it would appeal to you.

Regardless of that though I think it’s objectively a better comic than Excalibur.

Excalibur was a very average comic.

All the other issue 1s have had bright spots but Excalibur was uninspired and rote.

I haven’t read any of Tini Howards stuff before but my opinion of her writing is not very high aftet Excalibur.

This is how I feel so far. Excalibur has been the only pedestrian book so far. Every other book has had its moments. I’m willing to go for the ride for a bit, but it’s the weak link until it proves otherwise.

INFERNO is cleary coming…

I just read X men 2 and i had to start flipping pages to get the end. I liked the Apocalypse Part but I have an almost ingrained feeling towards Scott Summers that his interactions with his children were almost painful. He is such a douche and Hickman’s tweaks to Rachel and Cable make them almost as bad. I used to have a big crush on Rachel but since the Original Excalibur, I felt that no one could get a good handle on her and now is no different. My trust in Hickman leads me to believe that there is a reason ,imo, why all these Summers (Gabe,Rachel,Cable,Scott and Alex) are socially deficient. I hope that this oddity will not continue very long(hopefully resolved in months not years).
I picked up the Ron Lim cover and he did a great job with the Xmen 2099.

I think Tim really got what he wanted in X-Men 2. Islands having sex!

I am kind of enjoying DAD! Cyclops, to be honest.

So:
– Portal to Limbo, check.
– The original Horsemen and their descendants (can they be considered mutants or are they something else?) are still alive and keeping the demons at bay on the other side.
– Good thing Magick is aroun… CYCLOPSSSSSSSSS!
– Never, ever, accept a gift from Cable.

Fallen Angels was interesting, it was the book I had more doubts about but it was a nice mixture of dark and light.

https://www.newsarama.com/47859-someone-commits-murder-most-marvel-in-incoming-1-first-look.html

The new preview from Incoming! has a page clearly from the Hickman segment:

Jake wrote:

I think Tim really got what he wanted in X-Men 2. Islands having sex!

CANNOT WAIT TO READ

HORNY MUTANT ISLAND BANGING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay so I read Fallen Angels.

It was waaaay better than I thought it would be. I give it one million mutant banging points.

All of it was interesting, I have my theories about who Apoth actually is (it rhymes with Bladow Ring) and who the person speaking to Psylocke is (it rhymes with Maplisto) but we’ll see. It’s interesting but earnest, but the ghost-in-the-shell stuff about overclock throws an intersting dimension to it all. I didn’t love the art, mostly the colouring, so maybe i will deduct 3 mutant banging points for a total of nine hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety seven mutant banging points.

X-men 2 was great. Clearly Hickman is drawing from his Avengers playbook and creating an early cast of weird characters to play around with, but, ultimately, all i care about was the HOT ISLAND FUCK SCENE ohmigod! So horny! Minus points for Cyclops saying he has one love (lame) but plus points for Cable being kind of fun. I still award it Seventy Billion mutant banging points.

Interesting references to X-force. The books clearly aren’t isolated and Hickman’s being very careful about how the separate pieces fit.

For my money the major weak link remains Excalibur. Fuck that book. That book has Gambit and Apocalypse and it’s still the shittest. So dissapointed, but otherwise general yays to the line as a whole.

Cyclops clearly hedged on the one love thing.

I know, right????

You know when it is Logan’s turn with Jean, Scott is over at the White Palace tending to Emma’s needs.

Right.
So you probably expect this from me but let’s talk about Kid Cable.

There’s a lot of comments such as this floating around on other boards

“The characterisation feels way too awkward, like the son and dad dynamic, they’re acting like they’ve known each other for years, but kid Cable has only just turned up, they’re basically still strangers getting to know each other. ”

And at first, I kind of agreed.
I was not a fan of this off the cuff jokey Cable.
I wanted lean mean strategic machine.

The kid from a war-torn future trying to free his people from the oppression of the New Canaanites.
A world heavily influenced by the rule of Apocalypse, who thanks to him and his adoptive parents Redd and Slymm at the age of 10 (as stated by Rachel Summers page 17 issue 4)is removed from his base of power allowing for chaos to reign with no one to fill the power vacuum.

However, looking back at The Adventures of Cyclops & Pheonix and the follow-up Askani’son he was actually a curious mischievous young man who hadn’t had the levels of loss and pain that older Cable has.

His main focus was controlling his Techno organic virus and after the conclusion of Adventures of C & P he set about trying to restore the Askani and form the Clan Chosen. He was given guidance by Professor/Ship (Apocalypses Celestial ship AI and X-Factors former base) and Blaquesmith, who apart from being an intuitive engineer like Forge was a low-level telepath.

He was trained by Slym (Cyclops) in basic tactical awareness and Redd(Jean Grey) in telepathic/telekinetic control even though she had minor telepathic powers at the time.

That brings us around to X-Termination. The limited series that put the original X-Men back in the box and had the return of Cyclops after IvX(which thankfully we don’t have to worry about at all and doesn’t influence anything in the X-Cannon thank goodness)

We had a Kid Cable killing his older self who had strayed off mission “Keep the timeline in order squash any anomalies” ( now who set this mission and where it comes from is another gripe but I’ll leave that for now) He was militant, ruthless and very much like older Cable.
Not a bad start if you are going to change a character’s status quo.

An annoying side note for me at the time was that he speaks English. In Cable -1 a much older long white-haired Cable Original first visit to present-day he speaks Askani and learns English from Telepathic connection with Moria Mctaggart (and yeah that a whole other can of worms now!)

Cable -1
(Also isn’t Jose Ladroon amazing!?!?)

We see him resurrect his Father Cyclops in the Uncanny X-Men Annual 2018 Timesliding and Body sliding about to make sure he could resurrect him. Again a man on a mission, cutthroat, no prisoners. (I have to assume he learnt English off-panel there when this younger version comes back for the first time)

Then in 2018 X-Force, we had Ed Brisson try to tidy up timey wimey loopholes with X-Force and Kid cable returning 2000 years into the future of Clan Chosen and the Askani vs the New Canaanites and Stryfes Mutant Liberation Army. We have a bit of mind-wiping by Rachel Summers and Cable of Stryfe which kind of sets up the possibility of Kid Cable being mind-wiped sometime in the future and returned to his that same time.

This brings us around to his appearances in X-Men 1/2 and Fallen Angels 1

So he seems a bit of a dick. Cocky, arrogant full of self-belief. This is the Cable that most people are having problems with.

As I see it.

He is living with his mum and dad for the first time in a safe environment where he can eat and sleep in comfort.
He has access to the smartest and brightest mutant minds of the day.
He is free of the burden of being the Chosen one or Askani’son.
His personality has basically picked right up where Askani’son left of.

Buuuuuuut
Questions:

CABLE’S NAME: Should he actually be calling himself Cable? I understand that others do but I’m sure at this age it is not his moniker.
In Cable 24 (1993) Aliya is tossed back in time to present-day (1995) and says she is looking for the one called Cable. He clearly hasn’t earned the name yet at that age.

SHIP/PROFESSOR: Present in Brisson’s run and X-Termination. Why isn’t the original 5 and Beast engaging/ talking about his return?

Young Cable/ Apocalypse/ Ship: Kid Cable is waaaaaay to blasé and has not yet acknowledged that Krakoa has fricking Apocalypse on it! The one who all but destroyed the world he grew up in. The guy who gave him the TO virus. He should be pissed and it should be addressed.

Young Cable and Hope: We still haven’t seen these two cross paths. Why the hell not? Its been a year now and we at least deserve a flashback to this confrontation if it’s happened already. Hope would have hunted him out immediately and knocked his arse over.

How old is he?: Back Issue magazine issue #102 interviews Gene Ha for their Cable Guide, A history of Marvels Time travelling Mutants,(Link to Back Issue 200 Google Books who says Askani’son takes place 10 years after The Adventures of Cyclops and Pheonix where it’s established hes 10 years old.
So at a minimum after Askani’son, he’s 20. From there to X-termination lets assume a year or 2 of training and tutelage under Blaquesmith and his girlfriend at the time Aliya (already a powerful and well-trained telepath/telekinetic in the ways of the Askani) so that leaves him about 22

So he’s not really “Kid Cable” at all but the vibe is that we was in his mid-teens.

Telepathic/Telekinetic Abilities: So the good news so far is that we have seen very little of this from Kid Cable. In Cable 25 (1993) he makes it very clear that his TK experience is Limited and this is the battle-hardened older Cable. Him being surrounded by the worlds strongest telepaths at the height of their abilities could lead to him developing his powers quicker than usual.

CABLE/X-21: NOOOOOOOOPE. Not for me. Now they were shown dance fighting so hopefully, that doesn’t extrapolate into something else but Nates love of Aliya is something that kept him going in his younger years and ultimately broke him upon her death and made him the grizzled old man we saw when he was introduced. Keep him single and pining for his love in the future.

Phew.
Yeah, like I said. I had thoughts.

fuck this I spent 2 hours writing my thoughts posted it and now its gone.

Obviously Gar Jones didn’t agree with your thoughts.

I have all your text in an email, should I message it to you. Can we do that here?

Mark Abnett wrote:

fuck this I spent 2 hours writing my thoughts posted it and now its gone.

I feel like there’s a life lesson in there somewhere.

Use Notepad?

Bang it over to markabnett@arohacomics.com

Much appreciated

Mark Abnett wrote:

Bang it over to markabnett@arohacomics.com

Much appreciated

Folks you can blame Dan for finding this for me.

Right.
So you probably expect this from me but let’s talk about Kid Cable.

There’s a lot of comments such as this floating around on other boards

“The characterisation feels way too awkward, like the son and dad dynamic, they’re acting like they’ve known each other for years, but kid Cable has only just turned up, they’re basically still strangers getting to know each other. ”

And at first, I kind of agreed.
I was not a fan of this off the cuff jokey Cable.
I wanted lean mean strategic machine.

The kid from a war-torn future trying to free his people from the oppression of the New Canaanites.
A world heavily influenced by the rule of Apocalypse, who thanks to him and his adoptive parents Redd and Slymm at the age of 10 (as stated by Rachel Summers page 17 issue 4)is removed from his base of power allowing for chaos to reign with no one to fill the power vacuum.

However, looking back at The Adventures of Cyclops & Pheonix and the follow-up Askani’son he was actually a curious mischievous young man who hadn’t had the levels of loss and pain that older Cable has.

His main focus was controlling his Techno organic virus and after the conclusion of Adventures of C & P he set about trying to restore the Askani and form the Clan Chosen. He was given guidance by Professor/Ship (Apocalypses Celestial ship AI and X-Factors former base) and Blaquesmith, who apart from being an intuitive engineer like Forge was a low-level telepath.

He was trained by Slym (Cyclops) in basic tactical awareness and Redd(Jean Grey) in telepathic/telekinetic control even though she had minor telepathic powers at the time.

That brings us around to X-Termination. The limited series that put the original X-Men back in the box and had the return of Cyclops after IvX(which thankfully we don’t have to worry about at all and doesn’t influence anything in the X-Cannon thank goodness)

We had a Kid Cable killing his older self who had strayed off mission “Keep the timeline in order squash any anomalies” ( now who set this mission and where it comes from is another gripe but I’ll leave that for now) He was militant, ruthless and very much like older Cable.
Not a bad start if you are going to change a character’s status quo.

An annoying side note for me at the time was that he speaks English. In Cable -1 a much older long white-haired Cable Original first visit to present-day he speaks Askani and learns English from Telepathic connection with Moria Mctaggart (and yeah that a whole other can of worms now!)

Cable -1
(Also isn’t Jose Ladroon amazing!?!?)

We see him resurrect his Father Cyclops in the Uncanny X-Men Annual 2018 Timesliding and Body sliding about to make sure he could resurrect him. Again a man on a mission, cutthroat, no prisoners. (I have to assume he learnt English off-panel there when this younger version comes back for the first time)

Then in 2018 X-Force, we had Ed Brisson try to tidy up timey wimey loopholes with X-Force and Kid cable returning 2000 years into the future of Clan Chosen and the Askani vs the New Canaanites and Stryfes Mutant Liberation Army. We have a bit of mind-wiping by Rachel Summers and Cable of Stryfe which kind of sets up the possibility of Kid Cable being mind-wiped sometime in the future and returned to his that same time.

This brings us around to his appearances in X-Men 1/2 and Fallen Angels 1

So he seems a bit of a dick. Cocky, arrogant full of self-belief. This is the Cable that most people are having problems with.

As I see it.

He is living with his mum and dad for the first time in a safe environment where he can eat and sleep in comfort.
He has access to the smartest and brightest mutant minds of the day.
He is free of the burden of being the Chosen one or Askani’son.
His personality has basically picked right up where Askani’son left of.

Buuuuuuut
Questions:

CABLE’S NAME: Should he actually be calling himself Cable? I understand that others do but I’m sure at this age it is not his moniker.
In Cable 24 (1993) Aliya is tossed back in time to present-day (1995) and says she is looking for the one called Cable. He clearly hasn’t earned the name yet at that age.

SHIP/PROFESSOR: Present in Brisson’s run and X-Termination. Why isn’t the original 5 and Beast engaging/ talking about his return?

Young Cable/ Apocalypse/ Ship: Kid Cable is waaaaaay to blasé and has not yet acknowledged that Krakoa has fricking Apocalypse on it! The one who all but destroyed the world he grew up in. The guy who gave him the TO virus. He should be pissed and it should be addressed.

Young Cable and Hope: We still haven’t seen these two cross paths. Why the hell not? Its been a year now and we at least deserve a flashback to this confrontation if it’s happened already. Hope would have hunted him out immediately and knocked his arse over.

How old is he?: Back Issue magazine issue #102 interviews Gene Ha for their Cable Guide, A history of Marvels Time travelling Mutants,(Link to Back Issue 200 Google Books who says Askani’son takes place 10 years after The Adventures of Cyclops and Pheonix where it’s established hes 10 years old.
So at a minimum after Askani’son, he’s 20. From there to X-termination lets assume a year or 2 of training and tutelage under Blaquesmith and his girlfriend at the time Aliya (already a powerful and well-trained telepath/telekinetic in the ways of the Askani) so that leaves him about 22

So he’s not really “Kid Cable” at all but the vibe is that we was in his mid-teens.

Telepathic/Telekinetic Abilities: So the good news so far is that we have seen very little of this from Kid Cable. In Cable 25 (1993) he makes it very clear that his TK experience is Limited and this is the battle-hardened older Cable. Him being surrounded by the worlds strongest telepaths at the height of their abilities could lead to him developing his powers quicker than usual.

CABLE/X-21: NOOOOOOOOPE. Not for me. Now they were shown dance fighting so hopefully, that doesn’t extrapolate into something else but Nates love of Aliya is something that kept him going in his younger years and ultimately broke him upon her death and made him the grizzled old man we saw when he was introduced. Keep him single and pining for his love in the future.

Phew.
Yeah, like I said. I had thoughts

I liked it when he blowed up the monster

There’s a lot of little interactions I hope we see.

Magneto kind of alludes to this in the “no hate here” speech where he tells Psylocke that Braddock hates him.

A lot of people have good cause to hate Apocalypse (and Sinister, and Magneto) but I don’t think we’ll see it all answered because of the laws of the island.

Cable and Apocalypse absolutely should be addressed, and I think we will see it. But at the moment it’s probably a bit like Betsy/Psylocke as in it’s still to be sorted out.

Mark Abnett wrote:

Folks you can blame Dan for finding this for me.

Fuck. Maybe Dan needs to be banned.

I had a strong feeling that Mark Abnett was going to go ballistic with the Cable presented in X Men 1 & 2.
This Cable(?) is this young kid obsessed with something like many teenage boys are. But instead of cars or sports or music, he is obsessed with guns. I have said earlier that I am not down at all with the whole Summers family dynamic. I agree basically with Mark but he went too deep down the rabbit hole and lost me. also tl/dr. and then he thought he lost it and we get a replay. In Fallen Angels, I agreed with X 23’s take that young Nathan(should he be called Cable?) should not be part of Psylocke’s revenge death squad. this kid is too young. he does not have the anger and vengeance of the Cable we all know and love.
I know that Hickman tried to clean up the timeline of his version of the Xmen universe but it could be possible that older, pissed off, hard as nails Cable is still out there and hopefully we will see him again.

yeah, I kinda went ballistic on that one.

I think we will still get the old cable based on Mark Brooks double page connecting cover for House of X and whatever the other one was (forgot already!)
Hickman and Brooks are both on record saying everything here counts.

He has to be at least 20 thats my main problem. Pulling him out of the timeline earlier doesn’t fit but hes drawn as a teenager.

I have faith in Hickman.
Not a fan of Fallen Angles though and agree with rocket on that hes not ready to be in a death squad yet

Mark Abnett wrote:

I think we will still get the old cable based on Mark Brooks double page connecting cover for House of X and whatever the other one was (forgot already!)

Flowers of X. HoXFoX.

Mark Abnett wrote:

yeah, I kinda went ballistic on that one.

Trust me, I know ballistic. ask Ronnie. when your favorite character gets morphed into a almost totally different person, it is very aggravating and you need to vent.

Dave wrote:

Flowers of X. HoXFoX.

really? you got 5/6 letters right but FoX is so millarworld. leave it there with the old fox puncher.

POWERS

Rocket wrote:

really?

No. I might have known the real answer all along.

Rocket wrote:

Trust me, I know ballistic. ask Ronnie. when your favorite character gets morphed into a almost totally different person, it is very aggravating and you need to vent.

It’s hardest being a Mystique fan

I’m a Thunderbird 1 fan. It’s not easy waiting since 1975.

garjones wrote:

I’m a Thunderbird 1 fan.

Dave wrote:

garjones wrote:

I’m a Thunderbird 1 fan.

Thunderbird 2 was always my favorite:

garjones wrote:

I’m a Thunderbird 1 fan. It’s not easy waiting since 1975.

It’s possible that the editorial logic behind Sinister using original Thunderbirds genome is that he didn’t catalogue it and therefore can’t be resurrected.

Also, we know Xavier was storing minds AFTER that so it seems the threshold for ressurection is still the Mutant Massacre.

Edit: Well sometime after maybe. Given Sinister was responsible and old man no-banging died afterwards.

It also begs the question why Xavier didn’t catalogue the 16 million Genoshan mutants.

Todd wrote:

DaveWallace wrote:

garjones wrote:

I’m a Thunderbird 1 fan.

Thunderbird 2 was always my favorite:

This is the correct answer. Thunderbird 2 was the shit.

Anonymous wrote:

It also begs the question why Xavier didn’t catalogue the 16 million Genoshan mutants.

I think the implication is that he did, it will just take time to rebirth them all.

I’m sure one of the text pieces in HoxPox refers to exactly that.

Dave wrote:

garjones wrote:

I’m a Thunderbird 1 fan.

This is the first post in the entire thread that has made any sense to me.

Its pretty simple.

All the mutants and their enemies get together on this island and do a lot of banging (maybe its the pollen in the air, maybe they’re just happy, idk).

Anyway, that island also finds another island and bangs that island.

Anyway, that’s the core of it. Other stuff goes on but ultimately i dont think any of it will be relevant going foward.

Read X-Men #2 this week. Still not feeling it. It feels so different from the killer combo that was House of X/Powers of X. I’ll probably give it one more issue to redeem itself.

Well maybe you’d enjoy it if you didn’t put all that energy into seducing Hickman to give you early release copies!

Anonymous wrote:

Well maybe you’d enjoy it if you didn’t put all that energy into seducing Hickman to give you early release copies!

Oops. Fixed. Just kept thinking I would give it to issue #3.

Too late, Ronnie. Secrets out

Marauders 2 preview:

EXCLUSIVE Marvel Preview: Marauders #2

Excalibur 2 preview:

Marvel Preview: Excalibur #2

garjones wrote:

I’m a Thunderbird 1 fan.

What do you think it is like to be Warpath(James Proudstar)? “You can recreate any mutant from anywhere but you can’t recreate my brother?? If I changed our names to Summers. I bet things would be different!”

speaking of Summers, I think I may know why Cable is a gun happy kid. Xavier does not want anyone with future knowledge hanging around on Krakoa. Iirc, Bishop stays off island running missions for Xavier.

Im conflicted about Marauders and Excalibur. I loved Excalibur back in the day and happy to see Betsy wearing the union jack but the writer is very weak and i will probably not get #2 and hope Betsy and her crew end up elsewhere soon. Marauders has a good writer but I hate Kitty. young Kitty was fine as a character but adult Kitty is a bit of an asshole, imo. She turned into a bit of a Pete slut(rasputin, wisdom, and quill) and pretty much screwed them up. Her intelligence has also made her egotistical. I will probably continue getting Marauders and hope Duggan can redeem her.

Rocket wrote:

What do you think it is like to be Warpath(James Proudstar)? “You can recreate any mutant from anywhere but you can’t recreate my brother?? If I changed our names to Summers. I bet things would be different!”

I suspect the answer will involve timing.

Trying to piece it together, Mr Sinister was collecting a lot of DNA anyway so the start point there isn’t necessarily that important but when Xavier starts collecting the consciousnesses does. He was exiled in space after the Trial of Magneto before Sinister became known to them so I’m thinking it should have started after he returned again during the Claremont/Lee run in UXM#277. The oldest resurrection I think we’ve seen is the Morlock Healer who did die after that in UXM#291 so that seems to be the slot of availability.

That’s right in the period when X-men 1 was released, so maybe that’s the checkmark.

Alternatively, maybe it’s right after UXM 279 when Claremont finished his run.

It begs the question though- we had Fatal Attractions, Age of Apocalypse and Onslaught after that, so what the he’ll was moira doing? And Muir Island Saga happened well before those.

I still think the oanswer must be that Moira got the ball rolling, Xavier wiped his mind until a certain time (say Uxm 280) , met with Magneto, proceeded to Catalogue mutants with Sinister (which would have bern after both Trial of Magneto and Inferno) and then wiped both there minds right after until, say he became “x” in Soules run.

That’s right in the period when X-men 1 was released, so maybe that’s the checkmark.

I think Pip might be onto something.

Anonymous wrote:

That’s right in the period when X-men 1 was released, so maybe that’s the checkmark.

Could be and I think Hickman is trying to fit it all in rather than completely fudge it because he commented in that interview on HOX/POX that he was annoyed that Forge was mistakenly in the wrong outfit in a flashback scene.

Yeah I fully expect Hickman has poured over back issues to fit it in.

Theres just so much its difficult to see how it will work.

Anonymous wrote:

Theres just so much its difficult to see how it will work.

I agree. I’m not 100% confident at all he can pull it off but I do think if anyone can it’s Jonathan Hickman due to the way his brain works.

The Marvel’s Voices one-shot will have a story set around HoX/Pox:

https://www.newsarama.com/47932-roxanne-gay-method-man-kyle-baker-more-lead-new-marvel-s-voices-title.html

In this gripping one-shot anthology, fans will get another look at the X-Men following the events of House of X and Powers of X; the return of Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur; and other stories featuring the Hulk and Wolverine, Black Panther, Killmonger, She-Hulk, Black Widow, Ant-Man, and the rest of the Marvel Universe.

Marvel’s acclaimed podcast series focusing on telling the stories of diverse creators and their unique perspectives becomes a one shot of brand-new adventures! The X-Men find their place in the world after declaring a new nation! Killmonger strikes! Moon Girl and Devil Dino return!

Marauders was pretty fun.

 

It looks like the new status quo with Xavier (choosing my words carefully) will probably last until the next big mini.  It doesn’t seem like it’s just going to be undone straight away.

Not really a fan of Kate’s pirate tattoos.   I can accept her as hard drinking wastral, because that does happen to formwrly diligent people sometimes. But the tattoos are a bit much.

Excalibur was just as bad as the previous issue.  I’ll probably drop it.  The art is static and the dialogue needs to be edited.  Everyone has the same voice.

Xavier seems to be on the cover of the next issue of Marauders.

Oh okay.

 

That may not mean anything, but im happy to eat my words if it does.

I mean it might not even be him. It’s someone wearing his helmet at least though.

Honestly, the handling of his current status quo has been really weird. It happened in a side book and is basically ignored in Hickman’s main book. Fallen Angels kind of skirts around it but then it is treated like a huge deal in Marauders.

https://www.cbr.com/marvel-comics-solicitations-february-2020/

February Solicits:

• Wolverine
• Giant Size X-Men (there will be four other specials)
• Fantastic Four/X-Men 1 & 2
• No Fallen Angels listed.
• Savage Avengers 000, reprinting the Kulan Gath issues from Uncanny X-Men, includes a framing sequence with Magick and Dr. Strange in Krakoa.

Concerning Fallen Angels:

chttps://twitter.com/bryanedwardhill/status/1197536359700844545

bryanedwardhill

Due to some film/TV things I have in motion (that’s my main career and I have to grow it), I had to take a break after the first arc, but there are already plans to continue the story — in a very cool way…but I can’t comment on that yet.

Anonymous wrote:

Excalibur was just as bad as the previous issue.  I’ll probably drop it.  The art is static and the dialogue needs to be edited.  Everyone has the same voice.

I love the Captain Britain characters almost more than any others and the old Excalibur book when it was Claremont and Davis. I tried so much to like Excalibur but it really is rubbish.

rory wrote:

Honestly, the handling of his current status quo has been really weird. It happened in a side book and is basically ignored in Hickman’s main book. Fallen Angels kind of skirts around it but then it is treated like a huge deal in Marauders.

I’m not sure I agree. It’s been referenced in every book since X-Force #1.
<p style=”text-align: left;”>X-men #2 mentioned it.  The bigger development appears to be the island Being on lock down as opposed to … emotional turmoil from the event (on phone, too hard to spoiler tag)</p>
I think the latest marauders basically spoke to the idea that,  because of the new processes on Krakoa, no one is really expecting it to stay this way but there are still concerns.

<p style=”text-align: left;”>

garjones wrote:

I love the Captain Britain characters almost more than any others and the old Excalibur book when it was Claremont and Davis. I tried so much to like Excalibur but it really is rubbish.

</p>
Yeah it is rubbish. Outside the main book, this was probably what I was looking forward to the most, but it’s like an old 90s comic with a by the numbers string of action scenes and unearned mysterious plot developments.

The nail for me was a page which had jubilee, gambit, bishop and Betsy all talking and I literally had to squint to see which characters the speech bubbles came from because I couldn’t work out their voices.

It looks like the collections of ‘Dawn of X’ are going to bundle all the series together.

So TPB 1 will collect all the #1 issues of the relaunch, the second TPB will collect all the #2 issues, and so on.

Which sounds like a stupid idea to me.

It’s dumb but it’ll make money.

Me? No OHC, no buy.

Yeah, I think the way it’s been handled is pretty dumb. I was thinking of maybe dipping back into the Hickman X-Men title again in trade to give it another chance, but there’s no way I’m going to pay for a bunch of books I have no interest in just to get a single issue of X-Men each time.

Honestly I’m a bit staggered how they’ve ballsed this up.

That is peculiar.

 

Especially since the books inform each other but clearly have separate identities.

It’s not really different to the titles in the original AoA and they were all collected individually.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they do a collection of number 1s as a sampler but there’s no way they’re are doing it for each issue. They’d already be announcing the second collection at this point.

rory wrote:

I wouldn’t be surprised if they do a collection of number 1s as a sampler but there’s no way they’re are doing it for each issue. They’d already be announcing the second collection at this point.

The #2 collection is in the most recent solicits.

They have – that’s what Dave’s saying

Oh I misunderstood. Yeah, that’s just stupid then.

And a third trade with….  issue#3.

Even for Marvel it’s low.

I think it’s an interesting idea. I mean, I have no interest in buying these titles, but if they did it for other series it would be cool.

Imagine a collection of all marvel issues for, say June 1963, then another for July 1963, then a third for… well, you get the idea. Trades that mirror the real-time publishing schedule so you get all the guest appearances and crossovers in their proper context. I’d buy that. (Or would have, if it didn’t mean double-dipping on stuff I already have.)

What’s “June 1963”?

 

Is that a Neil Gaiman book?

Ben wrote:

Even for Marvel it’s low.

It just seems like a shit idea. Anyone with a passing interest in one or two titles isn’t going to want to pay out for the whole book when it has a load of other stuff they don’t care about. This feels like trying to milk the hardcore X-Men fans rather than reaching out beyond them to a wider audience.

A shame, as I thought HoxPox did really well to reach out in that way. But everything since then has been back to business as usual. A real disappointment.

It’s not like the idea of collecting the first 6 issues of X-men in TPB is impossible.

 

I’d say that seems likely

Dave wrote:

It looks like the collections of ‘Dawn of X’ are going to bundle all the series together.

So TPB 1 will collect all the #1 issues of the relaunch, the second TPB will collect all the #2 issues, and so on.

Which sounds like a stupid idea to me.

I was interested in Hickman’s X-men, but there is no way I’m paying for something like that!

check next post for this rant

Excalibur’s writer has shot up the charts as one of my least favorite writers. She is actually higher on my list than Bendis now. She was a nobody until Strikeforce(?) where she put Spider Woman in her old outfit because “she(howard) wore it once and likes it.” I just found out she’s a lesbian. but just like you can women supporters of Donald Trump(a sexist misogynist) apparently you can have tone deaf sexist lesbians too.

then Marvel gave her Excalibur.

garjones wrote:

I love the Captain Britain characters almost more than any others and the old Excalibur book when it was Claremont and Davis.

Because of people like Gar, Excalibur was one of the mostly highly anticipated books in Dawn of X and this woman managed to make some of the most loved characters almost unreadable in less than 2 issues.

 

 

Who’s writing Excalibur?

Tini Howard.

To be honest I don’t give a toss about the background, personal or political, of a writer as long as it doesn’t cross over into the work in a detrimental way. Whether Howard is a woman or a lesbian or a librarian is irrelevant with regard to why I think the comic is rubbish.

My issue with Excalibur is it’s cliched, muddled as to what’s going on and as Tim says none of the characters really have a unique voice. You could probably swap Betsy and Gambit’s word bubbles around and nobody would notice. That should never happen.

If this wasn’t connected to Hickman’s relaunch nobody would have read it and it’d have been cancelled by issue 5.

 

DavidM wrote:

I think it’s an interesting idea. I mean, I have no interest in buying these titles, but if they did it for other series it would be cool.

Imagine a collection of all marvel issues for, say June 1963, then another for July 1963, then a third for… well, you get the idea. Trades that mirror the real-time publishing schedule so you get all the guest appearances and crossovers in their proper context. I’d buy that. (Or would have, if it didn’t mean double-dipping on stuff I already have.)

It’d be a good idea for a custom reading list on Marvel Unlimited or such like (if it’s even capable of letting you do something like that), but as a print product it’s pretty stupid.

Also, Tini Howard has now disappointed existing fans of both Death’s Head and Excalibur/Captain Britain. What treasured Marvel UK property is she going to get to trash next?

Martin Smith wrote:

Also, Tini Howard has now disappointed existing fans of both Death’s Head and Excalibur/Captain Britain. What treasured Marvel UK property is she going to get to trash next?

Digitek?

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Martin Smith wrote:

Also, Tini Howard has now disappointed existing fans of both Death’s Head and Excalibur/Captain Britain. What treasured Marvel UK property is she going to get to trash next?

Digitek?

Motormouth and Killpower?

Just don’t let her get her mitts on Knights of Pendragon, please.

Turns out Tini Howard has just been appointed executive producer on The Crown.

 

 

In March, Giant-Size X-Men: Magneto

https://www.newsarama.com/48030-magneto-gets-giant-size-x-men-treatment-in-march.html

Are we two issues into everything now?  After this week’s entries, my opinions (in order of preference) are:

X-Force: This is my favourite of the books so far, it feels most interested in continuing the Humans vs Mutants elements of HoX and PoX, and it has a direction and a sense of vitality most of the other books are missing

Marauders: This is the other book with a proper sense of direction and looking at the place of the new Mutant order, but it’s more fun where X-Force is visceral.  It feels like more of an heir to classic 90s Excalibur than Excalibur itself, but that might just be because Kitty/Kate is one of my favourite X-Men

X-Men: Decent, but it feels like world-building more than an attempt at a narrative so far.

New Mutants: Gets by on fun dialogue and that gorgeous art.  I’m enjoying it but it’s not vital

Fallen Angels: Reminds me of what I read of Remender’s X-Force.  The art is highly variable – the figure work is great but doesn’t flow well and that holds it back.  And it’s not really clear how the group are getting to and from Krakoa aside from Sinister being involved.  It shouldn’t bug me, but it does.

Excalibur I’m not hating it, but that’s entirely damning with faint praise.  It feels very standard compared to the other books.

I’m inclined to agree with your ranking although id probably put New Mutants have Marauders and I’m enjoying X-men too.

It does feel like X-force is the best book of the bunch so far. I really liked the interaction between Quentin and Logan, and it’s obviously dealing with the mechanics of Krakoa in ways the other books are not.

Okay this weeks report.

I KNOW there was not very much banging this week YES I AM AWARE but i will not let that cloud my judgement. We did have an amazing island rootfest recently which was quite the event so its natural to have a bit of a cooling off period.

1. X-Force: It’s great. Quentin is fun. Figuring out Wolverines password was fun. Wolverine was fun. Quentin being depowered was great.  Jean and Beast were a little earnest but its fine it balanced out the fun bits with quentin and wolverine.  Clearly we’re getting a new iteration of the reavers and very curious to how they’ll resolve the Xavier thing (so, cerebro is on like a Krakoa like conduit – is Krakoa like a massive node for Cerebro? I’m not loving Black Tom but he’s the one downside at this point.

2. New Mutants.  I really like this book. I think I like it more than most people. Space lawyers, space court and space judge is super fun.  Signing things over to Earth Lawyers without checking is not a good idea (i know, i am an Earth Lawyer after all) and very curious that the Space Lawyer that the Earth Lawyers recommended wasn’t a very good Space Lawyer after all.  I like the bits with Sam and Roberto. Hickman clearly likes these characters and I like their bromance (Fuck you Ronnie).  It was nice to see Smasher back too. 1k Karma points.

3. Fallen Angels.  I don’t mind this book. I agree with Lorcan about the art. I don’t love some of Kwannon’s face work in particular. Some panels are great but others arent’.  The only character that’s really fleshed out here is Kwannon, and Cable and X-23 seem pretty by the numbers to be honest. The outside stuff with Apoth and Overclock is interesting and is it The Hand The Hand we’re talking about or a different Hand? Anyway, it’s pretty good and im not dissapointed to buy it.

Bearing in mind that Fallen Angels may not survive the first arc due to the writer leaving, it sort of feels like the books to follow are X-men, X-Force, Mauraders and New Mutants.  With the exception of New Mutants those books really do concern threads that came out of Hox/Pox and New Mutants is clearly relevant to the overall scheme of things because of Doug and Hickman (I’m expecting they’ll run into the phalanx/dominion at one point).

 

They’re about to face off against the Titans, which is what the dominion become when enough minds join.

I just caught up with X-Men #2 and New Mutants #2 and found them pretty disappointing.

They both suffer from being somewhat impenetrable to an X-Men outsider (although New Mutants fares slightly worse in that respect). And they both manage to have a lot happening while also making it really hard to care.

I don’t think it helps that Hickman doesn’t do well with characterisation and personality – his writing reads a bit like an alien trying to do a good impression of how humans talk. Nothing really rings true and it makes it hard to invest in the characters.

It wasn’t such a problem in HoXPoX, which had so many other big ideas and bold moves to grab your interest. And they did really well in making the story accessible to a relative X-Men novice like me.

But both of these titles are real letdowns for me, and my interest in the whole Hickman X-Men relaunch has absolutely gone off a cliff since the end of HoXPoX. A shame as there was so much potential in those twelve issues, but no sign of that anywhere in what I’ve read of what came afterwards.

(I don’t know if some of the major HoXPoX threads are being explored elsewhere in non-Hickman books and I’m missing it? I assumed his books were the ones to follow.)

I would reservedly recommend X-force but it’s not really advancing the story of Hox/Pox.

It’s clear to me Hox/Pox was a Prologue and not Act 1.  Important events have occurred (such as Xavier dying and Krakoa and Arrako merging but they feel more like minor simple beats in a much longer story. I think Hickmans drip feeding the Audience. He did this with New Agengers/Avengers too, where some storylines were revisited 18 months after they were introduced.

The books basically break down like this:

X-Men – seems to be mostly following Cyclops doing missions as the captain commander.

New Mutants – In space, with the Shi’ar.

X-Force – Deals with protecting the island from an attack by the reavers, and broadly the black ops in place for dealing with governments trying to undermine Krakoa.

Marauders – Deals with the black market trade of the krakoan drugs, and concerns the hellfire club

Fallen Angels – Largely separate.  Deals with Kwannon’s fight with Apoth, being like a sort of tech shadow king like entity.

Excalibur – looks at princess and castles or some bullshit. Also Apocalypse is cuddly.   It’s rubbish

Anonymous wrote:

I would reservedly recommend X-force but it’s not really advancing the story of Hox/Pox.

It’s clear to me Hox/Pox was a Prologue and not Act 1.  Important events have occurred (such as Xavier dying and Krakoa and Arrako merging but they feel more like minor simple beats in a much longer story. I think Hickmans drip feeding the Audience. He did this with New Agengers/Avengers too, where some storylines were revisited 18 months after they were introduced.

Fair enough. I’ve been put off by Hickman’s pacing and character work before, especially with his longer-form stories, so I think this may just fall under the banner of ‘not for me’.

okay

 

So Maruders 3: excellent. setting up a nice little hellfire war with the chess pieces being put into place. Great characterisation and spot on voices

X-Men 3: Okay so hickman is going down his Avengers/FF route here with one shots building up protaganists in this new world unlike the original x-villians. By issue 12 we will start to see how the cards are being laid out and all the little interactions and motivations will steer towards something of certainty. After issue 2 I really hope its all about Apocalypse and the origianl Horsemen.

 

Excalibur: Not for me. I had planned to get 6 single issues of each before going to trade but I’m dropping this like a damp fish.

Gambit, Jubilee and Captain Betsy are not speaking to me in a voice I recognise. Not even a last page suprise appearance can make me come back for issue 4.

 

 

 

I thought Excalibur 3 was better than the last two issues, but yeah, it’s just not meshing.  The page showing the mutant reddit was a great touch so props for that.  X-Men was better this month than the prior two issues, and felt more like a complete story. Plus, old lady eco-warriors who refuse to swear are a great idea for antagonists.  It does feel like yet another issue of vague scene-setting and that’s getting old, especially when even Excalibur is progressing its plot a little bit. Jean and Emma’s bitchiness was great, though.

Marauders continues to be one of the best books, Duggan’s got a great voice for the characters, and the story is capturing that feeling of exploring the implications of Krakoa for the world in a naturalistic way which was one of the best things about HoX and PoX