Hickman’s X-Men – Dawn of X

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One of the most active comics threads in old-MW! We can continue our discussion of HoXPoX here.

New issue out today!

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I stopped keeping up with X-Men when the pandemic started, so around #8, but I just got caught up, rereading the first 8 issues then continuing on to #19. I skipped the X of Swords stuff because I don’t have all the issues. I’ll look for them at my LCS tomorrow. Luckily the post-crossover issues don’t reference it much yet.

This is a really good book. I was unsure about it initially but I think I was just disappointed that House of X wasn’t directly continued. Now that I’ve accepted that’s not in the cards, I can appreciate Hickman’s run for what it is: a gradual, panoramic exploration of how life is on Krakoa, how the new status quo, Krakoa’s bio-technology, and the Five have altered mutant psychology, politics, and culture. It’s fascinating stuff. Feels more like reading Dune or Octavia Butler’s Xenogenesis or Le Guin’s The Dispossessed than a superhero comic.

So far my favorite stuff has been: the summit of the world’s leaders with Xavier, Magneto, & Apocalypse; X-23, Synch, & Darwin’s adventures in the Vault; the Crucible, and Nightcrawler’s reaction to it; Magneto donning the red and purple to protect Krakoa during Empyre (thankfully doesn’t require knowledge of that crossover); the big changes that have happened to the Shi’ar and the Brood.

I’m so pumped about this book and Percy’s Wolverine that I’m gonna start reading X-Force and Marauders.

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Rocket, Vikram, lorcan_nagle

Some callbacks to House of X in X-Men #20. Also sets up a story arc/event(?) in the fall: Inferno.

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Rocket, lorcan_nagle

That was a pretty good ramp-up of the ongoing plot. And hot damn, that cover!

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Rocket, Will_C

I loved the story. It is like all Flash’s attempts to change time.  The more you try to fix things, the more broken they become.

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Will_C, lorcan_nagle

Really liked X-Force vol. 1 & 2. Mutant CIA is a good idea, especially as Percy recognizes how straight up evil the CIA is. He literally has them doing imperialism in a Latin American country. Mystique makes the point that if X-Force is Krakoa’s CIA then their only moral center will be nationalism. Beast is the one behind their shadiest actions, which seems a little out of character, but that could be Krakoa’s influence. There’s some rocky fill-in art in vol. 2 but I really warmed up to the main team of Joshua Cassara/Dean White. Cassara’s looser, cartoonier style doesn’t scream X-Force to me but he’s really good rendering all of the weird biological technology of Krakoa.

Marauders vol. 1 was pretty enjoyable. I like the way Duggan writes Shadowcat but I find the Hellfire Trading Company plot threads more interesting than the pirate stuff.

I read the first issue of X of Swords last night and have to say it’s excellent. I was wrong to dismiss this based off the promo. This isn’t a dumb cash grab, it’s a direct continuation of Hickman’s story.

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Rocket, Ben, lorcan_nagle

X Of Swords is about as good as something can be in that kind of crossover (as in where each chapter goes across multiple titles and creative teams). Hickman doesn’t write much of it but you sense he’s strongly influencing it in his ‘head of X’ role. A lot of the ideas are typically Hickman with echoes back to his Avengers run and East of West.

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Will_C, lorcan_nagle

[Will_C]

Excalibur question: what’s up with Apocalypse and Rictor? X of Swords mentions a bond between them but what is it? Psychic? Mentor-student? Romantic?

I read the Marauders and X-Force issues of Hellfire Gala. I don’t think you need to read all of the Gala issues–I didn’t bother with Hellions and didn’t feel that I missed anything–but to know what shocking event happens during it, I think you have to read Planet-Size X-Men (or maybe Excalibur… I’m just going off solicit info here). Otherwise, the two books just show what their respective casts are up to during the gala. Nothing earth-shattering but enjoyable stuff if you like the characters. Marauders really should’ve gotten Dauterman to draw his designs, though. Lolli doesn’t do them justice at all. Emma’s feather dress looks especially bad.

There’s also quite a cringey musician cameo that I’m guessing was Duggan’s idea, but it’s just one panel so no big deal.

I caught up on the rest of X-Force (#15-19). Still a very good book. Beast is such a bastard. Colossus is such a sweetheart. One thing I appreciate about the X-titles is they’re very fast-paced. That’s true of this book, X-Men, Wolverine, & Marauders. Mostly 1- and 2-parters. I had at first felt that Hickman’s book was slow but he’s just taking his time with the Moira stuff. Almost every issue is a done-in-one with major ramifications for Krakoan society.

Percy isn’t taking on as many subplots as Hickman, his main ones are the Xeno group (allied with Mikhail Rasputin, one of the rare mutants who rejects Krakoa) and the Latin American nation of Terra Verde that Beast’s hubris has turned into a country of human/plant hybrids. Swapping back and forth between the two threads, with each arc lasting about two issues, makes for an exciting read. Although there are dangling questions, the immediate ones are dealt with quickly. He applies the same method to Wolverine, juggling the Flower Cartel and Vampire Nation plots, and it serves him well there too. I really appreciate a modern superhero comic that doesn’t dick me around.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Will_C.

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Vikram, lorcan_nagle

Will_C wrote:

Excalibur question: what’s up with Apocalypse and Rictor? X of Swords mentions a bond between them but what is it? Psychic? Mentor-student? Romantic?

More mentor-student. In truth it isn’t the clearest of storylines but in some encounter with druids they revealed that Rictor’s earthquake powers provide a connection with mystical earthly things or something, then Apocalypse told him he was attuned to learning secret mutant magics from him. He started on it but then gets exiled in X of Swords so that was the end of that.

That kind of fuzzy storytelling is quite typical of Excalibur to be honest. Jubilee’s baby becomes a dragon when he crosses into Otherworld for some reason, Rogue went into some kind of coma in order to establish a link to Otherworld. Brian Braddock has to become Albion instead of Captain Britain for some rules they just made up that seemingly didn’t matter when he was Captain Britain for decades.

 

 

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Will_C, lorcan_nagle

garjones wrote:

In truth it isn’t the clearest of storylines

I may be biased because she grabbed some of my favorite characters and did strange things with them but I believe one of the worst things to happen in the House of X is allowing Tini Howard to write some of the books.

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Will_C

Yeah the reaction here has been so uniformly negative that I’ve avoided her books completely. The Excalibur issues of X of Swords will be the first writing of hers I’ll have read (I know she co-wrote the opening issue with Hickman but I’m guessing it was mostly co-plotting because the dialogue is clearly all him, no one else writes like that).

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lorcan_nagle, Rocket

It’s just a weird book, it kind of ambles from idea to idea without explaining any of it very well. I try and put aside my inherent dislike of non-British writers who insist everything set in Britain has to revolve around tired Arthurian cliches (that Alan Moore did so much to ditch when he took over Captain Britain) but even after that it’s a frustrating read.

It’s not like Chuck Austin awful or anything, so if she’s being directed by Hickman in those co-written issues it’s not so bad, but the book stands out from the others by how muddled it all is.

I did a recent selective re-read of the original Excalibur skimming the non Claremont and Davis issues and every fill-in guy has to immediately jump to some fucking fairy castle story and every town has cobbled streets and gas lamps. I could write a long rant on it. Then I pick up the latest incarnation and it starts with Morgana Le Fay and everyone in medieval castles, Captain Britain gets a sword and a shield and tabard as if she’s back in the Crusades or something which makes no sense as the original Arthur of legend was actually fighting the Anglo-Saxons. *seethe*

I think when I finally get my writing gig at Marvel I’ll suggest James Proudstar gets given a General Custer uniform by his native spirits.

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Will_C, DavidM, Ben, lorcan_nagle

Talking of Arthur’s likely reality, Gillen’s having fun with that in Once And Future.

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garjones

Didn’t think I’d want a love triangle between Daken, Aurora and Wild Child. Now, I’m all for it.

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Rocket

So… did Peter Milligan & Mike Allred’s The X-Cellent get canceled? I liked that Giant-Size X-Statix issue that was supposed to be the prelude to it.

I’m almost done with X of Swords, it’s great and I’ll write something longer about it when I’m done, but man, I just have to say that you all are right, Tini Howard is not a good writer!

The Hickman co-written issues are great but her solo issues of Excalibur? Blech. The first one is all right but some things are a little unclear. Jamie Braddock made a Captain Britain Corps out of Jubilee, Rogue, Gambit, & Rictor? I guess this happened in Excalibur but unlike the other writers she makes no attempt to catch the reader up. Jamie kills Jubilee when the Captains attack him but no one seems all that concerned by her death, even though she died in Otherworld and therefore can’t be resurrected. Then Brian decides to become Captain Avalon instead of reclaiming his Captain Britain mantle from his sister like he intended at the start of the issue. This kind of makes sense but Howard didn’t connect the dots well enough. It seems like he wants to protect his brother Jamie, King of Avalon, who is partly insane and thus vulnerable. A decent motivation, but should’ve been clearer to the reader.

The second issue is a real trainwreck, though. Pure nonsense. Iska of Arrako shatters Betsy into glass shards somehow, and her friends mourn for about two seconds before the next round of the tournament: Bei vs. Cypher. Except for some reason that no one ever explains, instead of dueling Bei & Cypher are meant to marry each other instead. How this meets the purposes of the tournament is a mystery. Just as bad is that even though Betsy just died, the X-Men are cracking jokes in the audience. Then Jubilee, ALIVE SOMEHOW (and no one is surprised at this mind you), attacks the wedding with her son/dragon. I won’t get into all that, suffice to say the whole scene is a very hokey stab at humor.

As a whole this event is fantastic, so far the best X-Men one I’ve read, but this issue is a real low point. I won’t be reading anything else Howard writes, that’s for sure.

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garjones

There was some alternate universe stuff in Excalibur which is where the Jubilee, Gambit, Rogue and Rictor Captains Britain come from, but it was pretty vague even there.

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Will_C

An Amazon listing for Inferno has been spotted – 192 pages, 4 issues, hardback, possibly OHC, due March 2022.

Trial gets a paperback despite its predecessor Hellfire Gala getting an OHC, also in March.

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Will_C

I read X of Swords twice so that tells you how good it is, Tini Howard’s Excalibur aside. And to be fair to her the penultimate issue she wrote is pretty decent.

Apocalypse’s backstory, plus the backstory of Krakoa and Arrako and the Arrako mutants’ time in Amenth, is fascinating and packed with emotion. This whole crossover really delivers as an epic. That last image of Apocalypse walking away with his wife and children? Beautiful. It shouldn’t be possible to wring this kind of emotion out of such an evil character without making things even a little bit sappy but Hickman manages it.

I do wish the tournament hadn’t mixed in silly challenges with the serious ones. A dance-off? A fashion show? Really? They’re just a panel each, part of a montage of a dozen or so challenges, but still, come on. Try and meet the gravitas of what Hickman is doing, guys. Yeah, yeah, Saturnyne is toying with the Braddocks and their friends, but it felt too much like the MCU’s schtick to me. What I love so much about the X-line right now is that it goes in a totally different direction from the movies and the “relatability” many Marvel titles seem to aim for now.

Some quick highlights: the wrench that dying in Otherworld throws into mutant resurrections; Solem’s introduction (can’t wait to see him antagonize Wolverine going forward); Storm’s visit to Wakanda (Vita Ayala is a very good writer); the Hellions‘ whole side-quest (I’m gonna give their book a look now); Storm’s dance with Death; how Saturnyne flips the script on Wolverine; Wolverine vs. Summoner; Wolverine and Storm’s drinking contest; everything to do with the White Sword of the Ivory Spire; all the world-building Hickman & co. do with Saturnyne’s vassal states (Blightspoke is especially cool).

* * *

In other X news, I’m afraid I’ve turned on Hellfire Gala. The stories are okay but these celebrity cameos are embarrassing. I thought Run the Jewels in Marauders was lame but there’s one in X-Men that is, to me, the nadir of X-Men comics. Probably pushed by Disney so I’m not gonna be too hard on Hickman for it but it’s bad, really bad.

I’m ready for this event to be over. Any idea when we’ll find out what new X-book Hickman is writing?

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lorcan_nagle

Oh, I also read Marauders vol. 2. Even better than the first one. I love that Emma let the Morlocks vote on where to live (on her dime) and they chose a retirement village in Arizona. I hope Masque’s golf game improves.

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Rocket, lorcan_nagle

Will_C wrote:

the Hellions‘ whole side-quest (I’m gonna give their book a look now);

I loved that, I honestly thought they may have forgotten about it, which isn’t beyond previous multi-comic crossovers. They just turned it all on its head instead that they weren’t really doing their quest at all.

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Will_C, lorcan_nagle

I had thought Hickman’s next X-book was the Inferno mini unless there’s a second in the mix?

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Will_C, lorcan_nagle

Will_C wrote:

In other X news, I’m afraid I’ve turned on Hellfire Gala. The stories are okay but these celebrity cameos are embarrassing. I thought Run the Jewels in Marauders was lame but there’s one in X-Men that is, to me, the nadir of X-Men comics. Probably pushed by Disney so I’m not gonna be too hard on Hickman for it but it’s bad, really bad.

Meanwhile, I’m so out of touch I didn’t even realise there were celebrity cameos in there.

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Rocket, Will_C, Ben, Dan

Will_C wrote:

there’s one in X-Men that is, to me, the nadir of X-Men comics

Spoil me, please.

Anonymous wrote:

Spoil me, please.

It’s Jimmy Savile.

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lorcan_nagle, Will_C, Dave

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Meanwhile, I’m so out of touch I didn’t even realise there were celebrity cameos in there.

There’s one in every issue, they’re always looking out of a window and making a quip while Beast and Wolverine are climbing up a wall.

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Sean Robinson, Dave, lorcan_nagle

garjones wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Spoil me, please.

It’s Jimmy Savile.

Or as he’s known in the MU:

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lorcan_nagle

[Will_C]

Anonymous wrote:

Will_C wrote:

there’s one in X-Men that is, to me, the nadir of X-Men comics

Spoil me, please.

I was holding back because I read the issue a day early because I work at a comic shop.

The cameo I’m talking about is Kevin Feige. After Cyclops buys him a drink he asks Cyke to tell him his story. An obvious tease for X-Men in the MCU even though that’s not gonna be for like 4 or 5 years. I nearly threw the comic across the room, it was so cringe.

Other celebrity cameos I caught: Patton Oswalt (to the surprise of no one), Marc Maron, Eminem, Method Man.

Here’s the Feige cameo btw:

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Will_C.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Will_C.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Will_C.

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lorcan_nagle, Dave

DavidM wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Meanwhile, I’m so out of touch I didn’t even realise there were celebrity cameos in there.

There’s one in every issue, they’re always looking out of a window and making a quip while Beast and Wolverine are climbing up a wall.

I would legit love that. “Why hello there, Mutant Menace”

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DavidM, Dave

[Rocket]

I think that the Hellions issue of the Hellfire Gala was the best. Marauders faded from memory very quickly. I liked the data pages of the Cuckoos dialogue. The party crashing of the unwanted members was fun. Polaris’ rescue of Magneto was a bit cringeworthy considering her Ex(Havok) is begging for the resurrection of a clone(Maddie). X Force shows how everyone is talking behind Beast’s back and how far he is falling(Xavier not even consulting him when he tells Sage to remove the Terra Voltans). the Deadpool fight was very unnecessary. I haven’t read the Xmen issue yet but with a Feige cameo how good could it be.

 

p.s. I love Dauterman’s art but his fashions either show how far away I am when it comes to what is trendy or he has work to do when it comes to design.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Rocket.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Rocket.

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Will_C, lorcan_nagle

Planet Size X-Men lives up to it’s title. Probably the biggest world-building issue in terms of impact since House of X/Powers of X. I’m not sure why Hickman didn’t write it but Duggan does a fantastic job. You won’t want to miss this.

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lorcan_nagle, Vikram

X-Men: The Hellfire Gala Gives Jean Grey a PERFECT New Look

With a few tweaks, it could work.

Planet Size was pretty epic. Literally. Huge in every sense of the word. Very impressive issue.

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Will_C, lorcan_nagle

[Rocket]

Planet size was enh for me. Mostly because I am not a fan of the Arakko. Hickman created this entire race of mutants who are warlike and super fighters but then when they clashed with Krakoa we got the wacky events of X of swords.  Iirc Hickman created a planet in Avengers too. Marvel put out ads comparing Planet sized with Giant Sized. That created inflated expectations for me. GS gave us Krakoa and a whole new team of X Men. PS did not give us any new characters just new locations but that just repeated House of X which was only a few years ago.  I guess I am much more into characters than places. I thought New Mutants held more drama for me because what happened there. I am suffering a bit of event fatigue because X of Swords and Hellfire Gala haven’t gone anywhere, imo. Hellfire Gala can be redeemed because it is not over and there is a major action left to perform.

SPOILERS———————————————————————————————————————————————————-

 

p.s does Hickman have something against Tom Taylor?  Among Taylor’s major achievements was the development of Laura and Gabby in Wolverine. early on in Hickman’s xmen run, he takes Laura off the boards and leaves her there for about a year and now he kills Gabby. WTF man!

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Rocket.

Rocket wrote:

he kills Gabby. WTF man!

He WHAT?!

Did you not see the big Spoilers line?

That was in New Mutants though. Seems like it’s part of what Ayala’s doing with the Shadow King. I guess there’ll be another Hellfire Gala death because the one in X-Factor is supposed to set up The Trial of Magneto series.

Will_C wrote:

what Ayala’s doing with the Shadow King

yea but hickman’s name is at the top as he is Head of X and I would believe character deaths go through the head man for approval.

Forgive me if I missed something in this week’s X-books, but isn’t everyone functionally immortal right now? Killing gabby off isn’t exactly the same sort of dick move it would have been two years ago.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Forgive me if I missed something in this week’s X-books, but isn’t everyone functionally immortal right now? Killing gabby off isn’t exactly the same sort of dick move it would have been two years ago.

They’re pointedly not resurrecting clones. It was a whole thing with Madelyne Pryor a while back. Gabby has been worrying about it a lot in recent issues.

Yeah, she’ll come back and probably won’t remember who killed her because it happened between back-ups (same as when Sinister killed off his Hellions team in X of Swords) and Gabby and the New Mutants will have to figure out what happened.

What’s the deal with Gabby, anyway? Is she another clone like X-23? Maybe she’s a cool character but I have to say having three mini-Wolverines is too much. He’s not Batman, he’s just a guy. He doesn’t need this huge supporting cast of legacies.

I’m not a fan of X-23 going by Wolverine, either. Again, he’s just a guy. No reason to make him a legacy; there doesn’t “need” to be a Wolverine at all times like you can say there “needs” to be a Batman or a Superman or a Captain America (I’m speaking in-universe). Plus, X-23 is cool as her own character, and it’d be more keeping in Logan’s spirit to forge her own way.

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Todd

Will_C wrote:

He’s not Batman, he’s just a guy.

Uh, no. Batman’s just a guy. Wolverine has claws and healing factors and whiskers and shit.

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Todd, Rocket, Will_C

Will_C wrote:

What’s the deal with Gabby, anyway? Is she another clone like X-23?

More or less. She was a kind of messed up one of many that X-23 saved.

The book she appeared in though was Tom Taylor’s Wolverine/X-23 and he really makes it great. I’ll read anything Taylor does. He can put a shine on the biggest turd.

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Will_C, Rocket

[Rocket]

I was not following NM. I picked it up for Hellfire Gala. I just dislike it when they kill off a overly positive character like Gabby.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Rocket.

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Will_C

paul f wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Forgive me if I missed something in this week’s X-books, but isn’t everyone functionally immortal right now? Killing gabby off isn’t exactly the same sort of dick move it would have been two years ago.

They’re pointedly not resurrecting clones. It was a whole thing with Madelyne Pryor a while back. Gabby has been worrying about it a lot in recent issues.

Missed this before I replied. What’s the rationale?

Will_C wrote:

paul f wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Forgive me if I missed something in this week’s X-books, but isn’t everyone functionally immortal right now? Killing gabby off isn’t exactly the same sort of dick move it would have been two years ago.

They’re pointedly not resurrecting clones. It was a whole thing with Madelyne Pryor a while back. Gabby has been worrying about it a lot in recent issues.

Missed this before I replied. What’s the rationale?

The council have never explained it well, it mostly seemed an excuse for them to not resurrect Maddy. Havok and Gabby keep asking about it and being brushed off. Presumably the next issues of New Mutants will focus on it.

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Will_C

So Laura isn’t a clone anymore – it’s been established she’s actually Wolverine’s daughter. But I think Gabby is still a clone of Laura (I think?), which is weird since her claws and powers (she doesn’t feel pain) are different from Laura’s. Maybe not as big a deal as we’re thinking.

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Will_C

Jake wrote:

powers (she doesn’t feel pain)

That sounds more like a liability than a power.

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Will_C

[Will_C]

I didn’t know about the change to Laura’s origins. From reading online it sounds like Dr. Kinney was her biological mother and so Wolverine’s DNA performed the role a biological father’s would. Do I have that right? There wasn’t some secret tryst between Logan and Dr. Kinney?

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Will_C.

DavidM wrote:

That sounds more like a liability than a power.

It actually is and was covered when she was first introduced in X-23/Wolverine. I have no history with the character or much interest but I think Tom Taylor is a really good writer so picked it up because of that. He makes it clear it’s a curse as much as a blessing and Gabby is a great character.

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DavidM, Rocket

In Marvel Previews, Inferno has this introduction: “the culmination of Jonathan Hickman’s X-Men begins here.” I’m hoping that’s just marketing and we’re not close to the end.

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Rocket, Ben

I read Hellions vol. 1 and enjoyed it enough to continue. The X of Swords issues were even better, which helped the decision.

One thing: they keep mentioning that Havok suffered some mind-shattering trauma before the events of the series. Anyone have any idea what that is?

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lorcan_nagle

Soooo…

Scarlet Witch was murdered at the Hellfire Gala.

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Rocket

Will_C wrote:

they keep mentioning that Havok suffered some mind-shattering trauma before the events of the series. Anyone have any idea what that is?

AXIS, maybe?

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Will_C

Vikram wrote:

Will_C wrote:

they keep mentioning that Havok suffered some mind-shattering trauma before the events of the series. Anyone have any idea what that is?

AXIS, maybe?

Oh yeah, that could be it. Did he get turned evil in that? I own it but haven’t gotten to it yet.

Yep, and was one of the few who stayed that way (inverted) at the end of it. I don’t actually recall where he went from there – I have some vague recollections of him appearing in Bendis’ X-Men run as a bad guy too, but I could be wrong (maybe it was Peter David’s X-Factor). But, yeah, I think that was probably the last time Havok had a share of the limelight.

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Will_C

So, Hellfire Gala collection – worth getting or better to skip because without reading the books it’s an incomprehensible mess?

Ben wrote:

So, Hellfire Gala collection – worth getting or better to skip because without reading the books it’s an incomprehensible mess?

It’s an X-Men book, so I see that as a feature rather than a bug.

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Todd, DavidM, njerry

If I wanted jokes I would have asked for them.

Ben wrote:

If I wanted jokes I would have asked for them.

Are you sure? Because “So, Hellfire Gala collection…” sounds like the start of a joke.

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Dave

OK, you bunch of fucking clowns – is it worth £38 or not?

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njerry

Nah, it is not self contained so there may be incomprehensible mess. For Example, I picked New Mutants Hellfire gala book and they killed Gabby and I don’t know why.

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Ben

Thanks, I’m 50-50 on it, as it’s an overpriced item in terms of its content.

Thinking on this a bit more, we have the Inferno “mini” – can we call it a mini when the chapters are double size but there’s only four of them? – that has been marketed as the culmination of Hickman’s X-Men.  He’s handed the main X-book over to Duggan too.  We may have assumed that this was going to be a fully charted out Hickman epic, as all his other work has been, but was it ever confirmed to be that?

As it’s starting to look more like Hickman sets it up, gets it rolling so far, wraps up what he wants to and the rest is left for others to play with, with someone else getting the “put the bunny back in the box” job.

Who knows right now?

I have to say, and I know a lot don’t like digital and the ‘renting’ concept. I’ve loved following this by Marvel Unlimited. Each week I log on and read every X-Book. It is very satisfying and I don’t know how you translate it easily into a trade format.

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Ben

Yeah, if anything gets me to give digital a try it’ll probably be when this huge, too many books run is entirely available in that format.

garjones wrote:

It is very satisfying and I don’t know how you translate it easily into a trade format.

They did try for a while with TPBs collecting every #1, then every #2, and so on across the whole line from Dawn of X onwards. Not sure if those are still going.

I keep meaning to say, that was an interesting deep dive into continuity at the end of the most recent Excalibur

[Ben]

Dave wrote:

garjones wrote:

It is very satisfying and I don’t know how you translate it easily into a trade format.

They did try for a while with TPBs collecting every #1, then every #2, and so on across the whole line from Dawn of X onwards. Not sure if those are still going.

They have continued that with a Reign of X series.

Problem is that Marvel paperbacks are an insult to their buyers.

There’s nothing wrong with the structural MO.  IDW have done it on Transformers and issued 12 OHCs for Phase 2, with another few still to come for Phase 3.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Ben.

Learned that a female wolverine is called an angeline. I wonder if that might make a good codename for Laura Kinney.

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Todd

X-Men: Inferno – TRUST NO ONE

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/x-men-inferno-trust-no-one

JRCarter wrote:

X-Men: Inferno – TRUST NO ONE

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/x-men-inferno-trust-no-one

especially the author :P

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Ben

I’m starting to conclude Hickman’s ‘plan’ goes up to Inferno and that’s it.

But, given what I’m hearing of Duggan and Percy’s X-output that might be beneficial.

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Rocket, Sean Robinson

So, Hickman is off to both Substack and something else at marvel after Inferno.

If feels like David Lynch disappearing after season one of Twin Peaks, its not quite gonna work the same.

Will we get a new Head of X?
Will we still see the three Arcs that Hickman planned out?

 

 

 

Who cares? Sounds harsh but there is no requirement for a writer to see a story through where Marvel / DC are concerned.

Bendis technically started Decimation with House of M, but it was Brubaker and Carey and Fraction that continued it, with the Kyle and Yost led Second Coming arc that ended it.

If this means Duggan takes over? Sounds good to me.

It might also throw a spanner in the works of Marvel’s blatant price gouging on Hickman’s X-work.

Inferno OHC is going for £28 at Amazon right now.  That doesn’t sound too bad given their record to date.

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Dan, garjones

I bought a house earlier this year and have fallen terribly behind on monthly books. I still needed to get through Sword of X. Kind of doubt I’ll bother, after this news.

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Rocket, lorcan_nagle

A writer coming in with a big planned story and everyone else going “actually, we’re happy with just this bit” a third of the way in is grimly amusing. This does feel like a cop out and a dick move to anyone who bought into Hickman’s X-Men on the promise of a big, long-term mega-story ala his FF and Avengers though.

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Dave, Rocket, Sean Robinson, Ben, lorcan_nagle, Dan

Yeah, it’s definitely tempering my interest moving forward

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Rocket, Sean Robinson

Martin Smith wrote:

A writer coming in with a big planned story and everyone else going “actually, we’re happy with just this bit” a third of the way in is grimly amusing. This does feel like a cop out and a dick move to anyone who bought into Hickman’s X-Men on the promise of a big, long-term mega-story ala his FF and Avengers though.

In this respect, it is indeed crap, but to me, watching this become an untrackable mess, that can only really be read effectively digitally, the mega-arc died some time ago.

(His statement about wanting to take the X-line digital only last year explains quite a bit too.)

Hickman legging it to Substack just makes it official and he may take Howard with him.

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Rocket, lorcan_nagle

I have to say there’s an element of this I like. Marvel have driven me mad in recent years by setting up a status quo, having and event which rips it up within 9 months. You never get to actually investigate all the potential of what has been setup.

So I kind of agree with the writers to stay in act 1 for a while. Obviously I seem to be in a minority there but subplots that run for years was basically what X-Men was all about in my favourite era.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle, Ben

From a trades view, this news allows me to array the books as:

HoX/PoX – XoS – Hickman Omnibus

Then OHCs for Marauders, Hellions, Cable, Wolverine

Then whatever’s next, probably a Duggan omnibus.

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lorcan_nagle

garjones wrote:

subplots that run for years was basically what X-Men was all about in my favourite era.

AKA the Chris Claremont era.

Which was my favorite era as well.

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Todd

Hmmmmmmmm

From Independent comics thread

Rocket wrote:

But Hickman came onboard the X Men with these grand plans then produced something little better than an anthology series while farming the rest of mutant universe out to lesser talent before jumping ship to this new platform and taking his proteges with him( i hope)

I may be making conclusion jumping here but it is obvious why they had the creators they did(Duggan and Percy) on Comic con x men panel.

It is ironic or insulting why Moira and the precogs were kept out of the picture within the x-books. Ironic if Hickman did not know himself how House of X was going to play out. Insulting if Hickman knew he was going to bail and never resolve his story and the HoxPox was a bait and switch all along.

I also agree with Gar and Jerry about the subplots. I pray to god that Howard goes with him. Also, Hopefully Duggan and Percy will be able to scrap the unpopular shit like Gabby’s death and that excalibur mess Howard was responsible for

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Ben

garjones wrote:

I have to say there’s an element of this I like. Marvel have driven me mad in recent years by setting up a status quo, having and event which rips it up within 9 months. You never get to actually investigate all the potential of what has been setup.

Yeah, in that regard it is a nice change.

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Ben

The sense I get is a couple of things happened:

The relaunch was a mega-hit, so Marvel decided to drain it with an explosion of books.

After not getting the digital X-line he wanted, Hickman decided to bail.

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Todd, Rocket

Rocket wrote:

scrap the unpopular shit like Gabby’s death

There’s a huge subplot rumbling about clones rumbling on, from HoxPox onwards,  there is a need to put some fan favourites in peril or it would not get noticed. Why would you think there was not a plan for her return?

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lorcan_nagle

Well I guess I was right and this wasn’t really going anywhere… or is there some juicy behind the scenes drama? Either way, the good news is at least they’ll probably wrap this whole hox/pox nonsense quickly now…

Jon wrote:

they’ll probably wrap this whole hox/pox nonsense quickly now…

Ha ha, the press release says the exact opposite.

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lorcan_nagle

Fwiw…

I was referred to this website and it appears to be THE Xmen site. It has everything and counting… I joked before about some having too much free time on their hands but the flip side is the passion and devotion they have to develop this…

Here it is:

https://uncannyxmen.net/

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njerry

garjones wrote:

Ha ha, the press release says the exact opposite.

Well I didn’t read any press release, but that doesn’t really hold any water given what we’re discussing, I think… =P

Who killed the Scarlet Witch? Looking at the key suspects as X-Men: The Trial of Magneto unfolds

garjones wrote:

Ha ha, the press release says the exact opposite.

I’m still thinking that they might use Krakoa as a convenient way to drop the X-Men and mutants into the MCU; — they’ve been secretly living on Krakoa for decades and following the Snap and Blip, they’ve slowly started coming out into the world.

That Marvel is going to soldier on with HoxPox, just adds fuel to that fire.

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Todd

Jon wrote:

Well I didn’t read any press release, but that doesn’t really hold any water given what we’re discussing, I think…

So basically what they are saying is that Hickman had a 3 act structure for his story. The writers felt they wanted to stay longer in act 1 as they had so many ideas for it. So yes that means more HOX/POX for longer. They are extending the status quo it set up for the mutants rather than dumping it.

Interesting to see everyone at Marvel being so candid that they basically aren’t pursuing his original plans for X-Men and are instead keeping it all stuck in a perpetual ‘first act’ rather than seeing the story through to its intended conclusion.

It was pretty clear immediately after HoXPoX that Hickman was spinning his wheels rather than really moving any of the ideas from that (great) series forward, so I’m glad I bailed now.

Dave wrote:

It was pretty clear immediately after HoXPoX that Hickman was spinning his wheels rather than really moving any of the ideas from that (great) series forward,

I believe that the Moira story was brilliant but it had too many potential futures so Hickman needed to decide which ones he wanted to pursue. Does anyone remember if Arakko and its people were mentioned in HoXPoX? Because they were key to his 2nd Act (Swords of X) so if they weren’t then he dropped everything from HoXPoX. I agree he spun his wheels but when he got back on track it was a completely different track that he went down.

I believe Inferno will fail because everyone knows it is a lame duck ending and the comic reading public will just sit and wait for whoever is going to follow Hickman.

How many do you think will be disappointed in it regards of its quality because HoXPoX fell short of its potential.

Rocket wrote:

I believe that the Moira story was brilliant but it had too many potential futures so Hickman needed to decide which ones he wanted to pursue. Does anyone remember if Arakko and its people were mentioned in HoXPoX? Because they were key to his 2nd Act (Swords of X) so if they weren’t then he dropped everything from HoXPoX. I agree he spun his wheels but when he got back on track it was a completely different track that he went down.

I wondered early on whether he had changed course and dropped the Moira stuff after people noted the ‘similarities’ with this novel (that Hickman had publicly praised on social media a couple of years earlier).

If he had been planning to follow some of the developments in the book closely then he might have abandoned that plan when he was rumbled.

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Rocket