Doctor Who – What The Flux?

Topic

I remember when 2020 seemed a long way away!

Hope we get some news soon on exactly when this is coming.

Replies

Okay boomer, settle down.

That’s as dizzy-inducing as the Birds of Prey trailer.

All the boomers need to just okay boomer for a bit okay?

What he said

What he and especially the guy above him said

So say we all.

The new Doctor is not an upgrade so far.

But I’ll give her some more time.

Anonymous wrote:

What he and especially the guy above him said

Thanks Tim.

The extra white space there cleared my dizzy.

Yeah, I’m done. This is bilge, I can’t be arsed watching the last 15 minutes.

Ian Smith wrote:

Yeah, I’m done. This is bilge, I can’t be arsed watching the last 15 minutes.

Ooh, you missed the big twist.

Well what a load of old guff that was. And that ending made it extra awful.

Weirdly, I forgot it was even on (at the exact same time while bickering about an old continuity point with a troll on a different forum, ironically). I didn’t even bother with last week’s episode*, so maybe it’s for the best.

* I did read Andrew Ellard’s tweet notes on it though, which still managed to be illuminating even not having watched the episode.

So out of morbid coriosity what was the ending?….I’d guess that the whole thing was actully just part of the holiday. And it was some sort of adventure holiday.

That was as subtle as a nuke.

They way overdid the horror element too.

Ian Smith wrote:

So out of morbid coriosity what was the ending?….I’d guess that the whole thing was actully just part of the holiday. And it was some sort of adventure holiday.

Orphan 55 = A climate change fucked-up future earth where the surviving humans became the Dregs.

Christ, I was going to say it was future earth, but that seemed to silly and obvious…..

Well, we’ve known since art least The Ark in Space that Earth is going to end up like that, so

 

 

But it doesn’t have to be that way, if you just stop using plastic straws!

(It feels horrible laughing at that message because it’s obviously underpinned by good intentions, but the way it was delivered was just so cackhanded.)

Also, is that the biggest disconnect ever seen between the scariness of a monster’s design and the scariness of its actual actions in an episode?

The early glimpses were suitably attention-grabbing but it seemed like they were never able to actually show them doing anything. (An issue with the costume/prosthetics maybe?) So we kept being told that they were doing horrible things off-camera instead.

I think the most threatening thing one of them ever did was breathe on someone.

Well, there was the guest slaughter offscreen, as the computers said guests were “offline”.

Ian Smith wrote:

So out of morbid coriosity what was the ending?

Ben wrote:

Well, there was the guest slaughter offscreen, as the computers said guests were “offline”.

Oh I know they were meant to have done that stuff, there was just a lack of it happening anywhere onscreen. For about half the episode I was expecting a twist that they hadn’t done anything horrible at all and were being blamed for someone else doing it, somehow.

The whole episode felt like it was full of people looking out of a window saying “ooh, there’s some really nasty stuff happening outside”.

I liked the basic premise, and yes even the heavy-handed twist. Where I thought it failed miserably was in making me care about any of the characters. And obviously I wasn’t alone in that, the Doctor didn’t care enough to stop them all all sacrificing themselves one-by-one, either. Batty Old Lady charging the monsters? Oh fair enough love, I’ll just be over here doing something else  (Honestly, it was a relief when Batty Old Lady took herself out of the picture. It’s just a pity Random Love Interest With Sudden Mother Issues couldn’t have gone a bit sooner.)

That wasn’t any good.

The Wikipedia page has finally updated the rest of the writers for the season.

Next week is by Nina Metivier, who wrote on some BBC kids/teens stuff, and was a script supervisor last series. The week after is the Judoon ep by Vinay Patel, who wrote the excellent “Demons of the Punjab,” and the one after is by Pete McTighe, who wrote the less excellent “Kerblam!” (the Amazon one). The other two are both Who newcomers.

You know that joke where people claim they fed every script of a TV show into a learning algorithm and it gave them back a script that reduces the character dialogue to bare essentials describing their traits?  That’s what this episode felt like.  An almost literal paint by numbers episode where every point that could have been interesting veered into the mundane.  And even though it basically ran out of time at the end so we didn’t get a resolution to the guest characters’ stories,it still slammed that moral message in there.

Terribly boring. I lasted about fifteen minutes before reaching for my phone. This story is much more exciting…

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/traffic-and-travel/stand-comedian-shares-hilarious-blow-blow-account-scotland-bound-train-passenger-who-tried-scam-cheaper-ticket-1362320

Well, I came here to say that I might have liked that the most out of the episodes this season so far. It looks like I am very much alone in that.

It definitely had problems but I was enjoying the interactions between the Doctor, the companions and even some of the new folk.

Well I came here to say I’m glad you like it, Ross.

Hahaha, thanks. Somebody had to, right?

I came here to quietly judge you

Nope, not alone. This episode had some great dialogue.

I actually think it would have been better as another two-parter. Give us more time to care about the characters before killing them off. And take more time to make the message more organic to the story instead of, time’s up here’s a quick rant to the audience.

I suppose the “twist” might have had more impact if the Earth wasn’t abandoned and repopulated every few thousand years. It seems to be a cyclical thing with Doctor Who.

And the “global warming is bad” message was so heavy-handed to be cringeworthy.

Shhhhhh!

I am trying to judge

Anonymous wrote:

Shhhhhh!

I am trying to judge

Is it good? Do you like it? How judge-y are you going to be? Don’t upset Ross because he’s nice. Can I ask you another question about The Witcher whilst you watch? Can I watch Doc Who with you?

rory wrote:

Nope, not alone. This episode had some great dialogue.

I thought the PA in the resort was hilarious, to be fair.

It’s like they had a bet to see how many times they could use the words Benny and ionic membrane.

lorcan_nagle wrote:

rory wrote:

Nope, not alone. This episode had some great dialogue.

I thought the PA in the resort was hilarious, to be fair.

Yeah intentionally so I think since by great dialogue I meant really funny lines.

Jason wrote:

I suppose the “twist” might have had more impact if the Earth wasn’t abandoned and repopulated every few thousand years. It seems to be a cyclical thing with Doctor Who.

And the “global warming is bad” message was so heavy-handed to be cringeworthy.

Same deal with Gallifrey, it would seem.

The Kenny from South Park of planets.

Anonymous wrote:

It’s like they had a bet to see how many times they could use the words Benny and ionic membrane.

My friends do that all the time.

I have weird friends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Shhhhhh!

I am trying to judge

Is it good? Do you like it? How judge-y are you going to be? Don’t upset Ross because he’s nice. Can I ask you another question about The Witcher whilst you watch? Can I watch Doc Who with you?

I haven’t seen it.

I’m just jumping on the grumpy old men bandwagon.

njerry wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s like they had a bet to see how many times they could use the words Benny and ionic membrane.

My friends do that all the time.

I have weird friends.

Except me though, right? I’m only slightly weird.

Benny and the Ionic Membranes sounds like a punk band.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Shhhhhh!

I am trying to judge

Is it good? Do you like it? How judge-y are you going to be? Don’t upset Ross because he’s nice. Can I ask you another question about The Witcher whilst you watch? Can I watch Doc Who with you?

I haven’t seen it.

I’m just jumping on the grumpy old men bandwagon.

I’m no grumpy old man. You can’t be judgemental until you’ve watched it. Does you need some cuddles?

And I’m content that Ross enjoyed it.

I can see what they were trying to do. They went about it the wrong way. Instead of the Doctor can’t always save us, we need to collectively save ourselves audience: lets mobilise the wee ones to combat climate change by filling them with dread. Little green-haired boy was good, and Bradley Not-Cooper is still the best character.

How did The Doctor keep her jacket so clean amongst all that dust and grime?

Its coated in an ionic membrane.

For a more entertaining experience, I recommend watching this episode through an ironic membrane.

I have now seen it. I confirm I am team Grumpy

I’m surprised the reactions here (well some of them) were so strongly negative. I thought it was alright, a fairly standard episode. Yes the message at the end was too heavy handed and they probably could have cut out one of the subplots to give them more room to breathe (the father and son, the old couple and the mother and daughter – one could have been dropped). Other than that it was a neat enough done in one story with a little twist.

I can think of a lot worse ones since the series came back.

 

Just watched it. That was not a twist. It was a Ham Sandwich

garjones wrote:

I can think of a lot worse ones since the series came back.

I’m pretty sure we must’ve moaned about them too.

I’m sure we did. I mean it’s always personal taste but I just couldn’t really gather what was so offensive about this one. It was a bit bland and functional perhaps but couldn’t quite see what was so awful people were switching off before the end.

Personally, I think Doctor Who is settling back into a comfortable routine after the highs of Tennant and Smith. The current episodes remind me of old school Who. A fun, relaxed hour to just sit back and enjoy.

Well, it was clearly written by a Ham fisted bun vendor.

1. It managed to be Plot driven, rather than character driven whilst not really having an interesting plot.
2. There were piles of lazy writing – most characters were thin, one note, and were either there to die, or they got knocked off cos they were not important for the plot no more.
3. Benny
4. I really did not care about the characters. they were just annoying tropes – remember when Lynda with a Y died. it should feel like that.
5. Benny
6. There was nothing novel or interesting – which is really the job of Doctor Who. Nor did it drop the team into a Genre to see how Doctor Who distorted it, or how it might add to Doctor Wh0.
7. There were themes there about parenting, and putting up walls that were not explored, instead special episode about the environment
8. Benny! Benny! My Benny.

 

This week’s was alright I thought. All the alien stuff was fairly run-of-the-mill but the historical aspects were ok. Hard to get really excited about it though.

I think that Dr Who probably appeals more if you’re a brit hooked on the nostalgia.

I haven’t seen the new episode but I think I’m just watching out of habit.

An OK way to spend 50 minutes.

Best of the season so far. I wish it had been two parts again though. Everything seems very rushed.

I asked my sister what she thought of last week’s episode.

She said if it’s any indication, she started reading a book while it was on.

I liked that. The performance of Tesla really carried it.

rory wrote:

I liked that. The performance of Tesla really carried it.

There’s a reason Kevin Kline is such a big star.

Yeah, that one was much better than last week.  It didn’t grab me the way Spyfall did but wasn’t as by the numbers as last week.  I was kinda hoping for a bit more nuanced take on Tesla like we got with Rosa Parks last year though, especially when the Doctor called him a liar at the start. Tesla was definitely a visionary and history proved him right on a lot of things, but he was also a fantasist and crackpot – and the episode played that second part down more than I liked.

I guess when you’re pitching it at an all-ages audience that level of nuance is difficult. But yes, the opening made me think we might be getting a more balanced take than we saw by the end.

It’s hard to show being a “fantasist and crackpot” as a negative point in a programme that explicitly makes fantasies real. “OMG crazy Tesla says he has been receiving signals from space LOL!!!” Well… yeah, he really has been and you’re the dummy

You’d have the subvert the whole premise of fifty years of Doctor Who canon to make Tesla look anything other than a genius visionary.

I guess showing the portable death ray not working was as close as they could get (and that was worth it for Graham’s reaction).

I think the historical visits are proving to be the strongest suit of this Doctor.

Yeah, I would agree. It’s an element of the show that was arguably neglected during Moffat’s tenure. They seem to be pitching that aspect around the right level under Chibnall.

Why are they releasing a trailer in the middle of a series?

Dave wrote:

There’s a reason Kevin Kline is such a big star.

I have never heard of this before. I don’t think they look much like each other myself.

I thought it was another good episode. Like I said before Doctor Who has settled into a solid entertainment option. Visnijc did a good job as Tesla and the rivalry between Tesla and Edison was well portrayed.

Rocket wrote:

I have never heard of this before. I don’t think they look much like each other myself.

I agree, once the episode got started there wasn’t much of a resemblance if anything he looked more like Hugh Jackman. But the first shot of the episode really made me do a double-take as it looked like a younger Kline.

Yeah I had the same reaction in that first wider shot but recognized him once they moved in closer.

EDIT: I also wanted to add I really liked the new color scheme of the tardis towards the end of the episode.

DavidM wrote:

It’s hard to show being a “fantasist and crackpot” as a negative point in a programme that explicitly makes fantasies real. “OMG crazy Tesla says he has been receiving signals from space LOL!!!” Well… yeah, he really has been and you’re the dummy

You’d have the subvert the whole premise of fifty years of Doctor Who canon to make Tesla look anything other than a genius visionary.

I guess showing the portable death ray not working was as close as they could get (and that was worth it for Graham’s reaction).

I mean they could have brought up his romance with the pigeon.

I do think the end kind of drove home the point Locan was looking for though.

DavidM wrote:

It’s hard to show being a “fantasist and crackpot” as a negative point in a programme that explicitly makes fantasies real. “OMG crazy Tesla says he has been receiving signals from space LOL!!!” Well… yeah, he really has been and you’re the dummy

Well yes, but… the characters don’t know they’re in a science fiction story.

Martin Smith wrote:

Why are they releasing a trailer in the middle of a series?

Ratings?

I would think in part to avoid spoiling the first episode. Got to give people some time to watch it.

Martin Smith wrote:

Why are they releasing a trailer in the middle of a series?

Why not? I don’t see anything fundamentally wrong in promoting something as it’s running. I saw an Eastenders promo too and that started in 1985.

To be honest I find Chibnall’s run is not bad but a little bland compared to the two guys preceding him but the one thing I would give praise for is the way they promote it. Not running massive spoilers all the time as soon as the episode has ended, not trailing major scenes from the final episode in week 1.

garjones wrote:

Martin Smith wrote:

Why are they releasing a trailer in the middle of a series?

Why not? I don’t see anything fundamentally wrong in promoting something as it’s running. I saw an Eastenders promo too and that started in 1985.

To be honest I find Chibnall’s run is not bad but a little bland compared to the two guys preceding him but the one thing I would give praise for is the way they promote it. Not running massive spoilers all the time as soon as the episode has ended, not trailing major scenes from the final episode in week 1.

Well, I see your point (and I agree about the lack of spoilers, it’s a shame it’s taken until now for that) but I don’t know, doing a general trailer for the rest of the series rather than just ads for the next episode just seems odd.

Well, that was all a bit exciting! Good episode.

That was rather good, a couple of running mysteries and future plots teased and….

Welcome back Jack.

Who looks to be in his DW persona and not the downer version that Torchwood had.

Well, that’s not what I expected. Very odd episode, in a mostly good way.

garjones wrote:

one thing I would give praise for is the way they promote it. Not running massive spoilers all the time as soon as the episode has ended, not trailing major scenes from the final episode in week 1.

Jack’s return in this episode is another good example. Great to have surprises like this that aren’t leaked ahead of time.

Ok, I didn’t see any of that coming.

What I liked most is it used pieces that the viewer had seen before but not for a long time – the Judoon, Time Lord memory / personality restoration devices, mention of the Cybermen and, of course, Jack.

It also explained them enough so as to invite exploration for the earlier stories but without requiring them, which is the exact right route to take with how to use continuity to enhance a story.

Plus the whole running gag about what rhymes with Judoon was very funny.

This felt a lot like an RTD episode in some ways, and like a Moffat episode in others, while still being very much of the current era. Kind of a ‘best of’ the rebooted show.

I could have skipped the jack bits and had a bit more of the rest, Jack was nae Jack, but a panto Jack.

Also surely he should have YANA?

It felt like the Jack bits were only there because they couldn’t think of anything to do with all the companions (again). No complaints about his actual appearance, but it should have been the focus of its own episode instead of a glorified cameo to dilute the actual focus of the episode.

But that’s an observation rather than a criticism. I still thought it was a great episode.

I can see why people are liking it, but it didn’t really work for me. Once you get past the thrill of seeing Jack again, he is, as David said, just there to keep the companions busy (again inessential to the main plot), offer a bit of cryptic foreshadowing and be the first half of a one-two of big moments. It’s such a waste.

The stuff with Ruth is superficially interesting, but… Chibnall has a habit of using the trappings of the series to make stuff seem more important than it is – undeserved cloister bells, in 42 the Doctor warning Martha about regeneration because he wasn’t feel well (if he did that every time he was facing death he’d never have time to save himself), when he’s clearly not about to die (compare to RTD’s proper regeneration fake-out in s4). Here, this pseudo-Doctor team up is intriguing, using the surface elements of actual ones (while not bothering to differentiate the two much – the only difference is the use of the gun, which Ruth is very clear about being an obvious bluff that our Doctor is ruining cos she’s an idiot) to cover for the fact that next to nothing actually happens. The Next Doctor did most of this and a half-decent Cyberman story in an hour.

I just found it too hard to get past that obvious solutions (parallel universes!) are oddly beyond the characters’ thinking and that a clear solution to work out the confusiom between them (contact) is done with another character right there! Even if you don’t go for that, how are they not just going “well I was a grey-haired Scotsman last, that ring any bells? No? Have you done the big scarf phase?”

For me, you can’t get away with invoking so much of the series’ past lore – contact, chameleon archs for god’s sake! – while simultaneously playing it completely dim and unsavvy with the the conventions of the show and the entire genre.

Nice TARDIS though.

Jack’s return is surely a setup for more of him later in the series, though. This episode feels like the start of lots of longer-term plot elements.

Talking of which, any speculation on the ‘other’ Doctor?

Funnily enough during the first part of Spyfall (where they showed all those different maps of Earth) we speculated in our house as to whether they were all Earths of different universes, and if so whether each universe had its own Doctor… it feels like they might be opening that can of worms.

Martin Smith wrote:

Nice TARDIS though.

Easily the best TARDIS we’ve seen for … oh, at least three decades.

Dave wrote:

Talking of which, any speculation on the ‘other’ Doctor?

Yeah, I assume her and the other Time Lord come from an alternate world of some sort.

I assume Jack’s going to be back for the Cyberman finale, but I’ll be annoyed if it’s an earlier version (so he can deliver the warning in this ep) meaning he and The Doctor still don’t meet (or he’d have known she’s a woman).

Dave wrote:

Jack’s return is surely a setup for more of him later in the series, though. This episode feels like the start of lots of longer-term plot elements.

That’d be fine, if he’d just been here for a quick tease, but he’s in half this episode and mostly just stands around. This is an appearance in its own right and yet is wasted, frankly.

It won’t be but it totally should be season 6b.

 

 

OMG. The RUTHless Doctor.

well played!

I enjoyed the episode. Very pleased to see Jack. the kiss he planted on Graham was a laugh. Ruth and the glass reminded me of Tennant’s John Smith which is among my favorites.  Lee and Gat seem like trained soldiers, were they Time Lords? Are the Judoon from this Universe or Their universe? Ruth reminds me somewhat of the War Doctor. is she a repressed memory or a different universe’s Doctor? Can’t wait until next week.(may even watch it live if SB gets boring)

Dave wrote:

Talking of which, any speculation on the ‘other’ Doctor?

Funnily enough during the first part of Spyfall (where they showed all those different maps of Earth) we speculated in our house as to whether they were all Earths of different universes, and if so whether each universe had its own Doctor… it feels like they might be opening that can of worms.

Yeah, an alternate or parallel universe is an obvious solution to the two Doctor problem.

Another one — that also opens up its own can of worms — is that Chibnall is dipping into the old Cartmel Masterplan and Ruth is The Other. It would explain why Thirteen wouldn’t remember being Ruth, with the Doctor not remembering his/her adventures before the Hartnell version. It did look like Ruth had an old-school Tardis interior. This could also tie back into the secret the Master learned that caused him to destroy Gallifrey.

Ruth could also be revealed to be — knowingly or unknowingly — a fraud or a part of some kind of plot against the Doctor.

 

Jason wrote:

Ruth could also be revealed to be — knowingly or unknowingly — a fraud or a part of some kind of plot against the Doctor.

I think it might be something as banal as “she’s just opened a Chaneleon Arch device the Doctor has used at a later date and it’s rewritten her into the Doctor”. John Smith presented as human before opening the watch, the kid in that was getting psychic bursts from it similar to Ruth, it rewrites DNA. *shrug*

But probably an alt reality.

Has anyone claimed that Ruth is the Valeyard yet?

Captain Jack for the festive special, then. pic.twitter.com/jxGexhB8tp

— Andrew Ellard (@ellardent) January 28, 2020

Yeah that was a lot of fun. Felt like a nice mix of RTD and Moffat. Definitely the best episode of the new run.

It was cool to see Jack again, even if his appearance did feel a little bolted on, it was still a nice surprise I didn’t see coming. And the mystery with the other Doctor and time lords is intriguing. The Doctor just felt a bit more fleshed out here. Unlike previous episodes when she’s just pointing the sonic and giving history lessons.

But it’s not all positive. The companions are still awful.

 

 

Martin Smith wrote:

Captain Jack for the festive special, then. pic.twitter.com/jxGexhB8tp

— Andrew Ellard (@ellardent) January 28, 2020

Or, and I’m going out on a limb here, Chibnall might be lying.