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Doctor Who: now discussing Empire of Death (with spoilers!)
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I sense it’s on a bit of a holding pattern now. I haven’t been as down on the Chibnall era as most but in general it has been a bit bland. I’d rate most of it on a chart as ‘okay’.
We all know RTD is coming back and love him or hate him (or sometimes both at the same time) he doesn’t really do ‘bland’.
I’m more enticed by the idea that with one more episode left can they feasibly actually drop the new Doctor as a surprise on screen and not in a TV ‘reveal’ or newspaper story.
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And the new Doctor is:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61371123
Ncuti Gawa.
The usual suspects are going to be in meltdown – good.
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Although I guess this means months of arguments over “wokeness” which is probably going to be tiresome.
Any casting announcement would probably get that either way these days though.
And to be honest I think it’s good to make ultra clear that the Doctor can be any gender or race. Get through a couple of regenerations of that novelty and then it means that the field will forever be wide open to casting options in future.
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Frankly, stuff them.
They can go in search of their imaginary non-woke Doctor. Along with those who want aryan Star Wars and bleached Star Trek.
And let’s be honest, those people who are complaining about “wokeness” in those properties don’t understand them or aren’t familiar with them to begin with. They complain about diversity yet fail to comprehend that it is an inherent property of them.
Their “thoughts” are irrelevant and unimportant.
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I only watched the first season of Sex Education, but he was very good in that.
Apparently he’s also one of the fifty people in the next Band of Brothers miniseries, Masters of the Air.
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For those wondering, and I’m sure it’ll be said incorrectly many times over the next few years, probably, he pronounces his name “Shooty”:
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Sounds good to me. He’s great is Sex Education.
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He’s great in Sex Education, full of charisma. It’s not a very Doctor-like character but you know…acting.
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Yeah, that looks like a good choice.
I guess I’ll be back for RTD’s new run.
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I’ve still not tried Sex Education
Wow, British schools are terrible
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The usual suspects are going to be in meltdown – good.
He will as he did first time annoy a lot of people but I relish the bits that annoy them.
I totally get the sentiment from both of you here, but it’s never something that occurs to me. I don’t want this show to annoy the “right people”, I want it to be so good that even the initial naysayers have to admit that they misjudged it and that it turned out really well.
The show had a moment like that with Matt Smith (who pretty much blew everyone away with his performance, and changed the minds of a lot of people who had questioned his casting) and I’m hoping that anyone unsure about this casting ends up similarly swayed. Because ultimately I want the show to be great and for it to have the widest appeal possible.
Like I say, I get the sentiment, but it feels like getting sucked into either side of these divisive arguments means playing a game that I don’t want to play. For me, the best possible outcome is that everyone agrees the next version of the show is fantastic, not that there’s a faction of people who hate it (or elements of it) but that I’m happy because the right people are unhappy.
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I totally get the sentiment from both of you here, but it’s never something that occurs to me. I don’t want this show to annoy the “right people”,
I’m not sure my point is exactly what you think it is.
The way Russell T Davies writes is he expands on pieces of dialogue he thinks are great or scenes that would be cool and creates a story around that. That method I like as I think it creates very memorable storytelling but a lot of sci-fans would prefer a Jonathan Hickman style approach of a detailed logical masterplan in a spreadsheet. They will enjoy that if they watch something like The Expanse or Foundation or shows of that ilk. I don’t believe RTD is able to do that.
While maybe the Chibnall era has imbued more nostalgia for better days I recall the initial run of RTD getting a lot of criticism and I think his return will get the same from the same people because the way he approaches story will not fit into what they want.
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I’ve loved Doctor Who since I was a small kid and Tom Baker was in the role but in truth right now I prefer RTD as a creator. He has a particular way of working which revolves around starting with emotion and dialogue which in truth is the opposite of most ‘hard sci-fi’ demands of plot first. He will as he did first time annoy a lot of people but I relish the bits that annoy them.
It’s a Sin was an emotional journey I have rarely experienced in TV, a masterpiece in my mind. Yes it has his ‘tics’ as a writer but I don’t see that as a bad thing, I grew up on the tics of Claremont and loved them in Whedon and Sorkin. If a writer has nothing to identify them with are they at risk of being just bland?
There are a lot of RTD Who episodes that I really love, but God did he get on my nerves towards the end there. But I suspect and hope that with some distance now and re-energised, he will deliver something extraordinary.
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There are a lot of RTD Who episodes that I really love, but God did he get on my nerves towards the end there.
I’m not blind to the faults in his run, he egged some stuff on too much like the group love-in in the Tardis, but I think actually some of the best episodes came at the end of it. Turn Left and Midnight are self penned episodes I think are better than anything in his first series.
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I just hope he asks Moffat to write an episode.
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I loved Moffat during the first RTD run, but I’d rather some new people be brought in.
I’m hoping RTD relaxes whatever unwritten rule there is about non-British people writing for the show.
I’m also hoping with the Sony involvement, they can put the episode count back up to more than eight episodes a year.
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Speaking of writers/directors. Russell T Davies added a ‘like’ to these photos.
I think it is a side element we just touched on, that RTD brought in some very good writers. Chibnall’s selections seemed more of a try-out vibe.
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Elgar Wright was down to direct Rose back in the day. If you watch it with that in mind, you can see how it would have worked really well with the Spaced vibe turned up with an more than adequate director on hand.
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Some pics of former cast:
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Old logo?
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Rachel Talalay also posted a photo of here with Matt Lucas. Nardole returning?
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For anyone keeping an eye on Big Finish, they never went away.
Edit – page not found, the hell? Wait, found another link:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2022/doctor-who-david-tennant-and-catherine-tate-return
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Some pics of former cast:
Is that Adric in the front?
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Is that Adric in the front? https://whatculture.com/tv/every-classic-doctor-who-companion-ranked-from-worst-to-best-2Is there a modern companion that has fell to the depths Adric was in?
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Is there a modern companion that has fell to the depths Adric was in?
Clara.
My first instinct was to say Martha, but she wasn’t painfully awful, just bland.
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Is there a modern companion that has fell to the depths Adric was in?
Clara.
My first instinct was to say Martha, but she wasn’t painfully awful, just bland.
I don’t know, some of Agyeman’s acting was as ropey as Waterhouse’s.
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Neil Patrick Harris Joins Doctor Who as ‘The Greatest Enemy the Doctor Has Ever Faced’
Davis also teased separately on Instagram, “Neil Patrick Harris, welcome to Cardiff! Playing the greatest enemy the Doctor has ever faced. Such a great actor, such a great man, it’s an honour and a hoot. Have fun.”
NPH was in It’s A Sin, so not totally unexpected, but definitely more high-profile (expensive) than Who usually goes.
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Turns out The Matrix on Gallifrey is the same one as in the movies and he’s going to be playing
Ben ShapiroThe Analyst again.2 users thanked author for this post.
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Neil Patrick Harris Joins Doctor Who as ‘The Greatest Enemy the Doctor Has Ever Faced’
He’s playing Chris Chibnall?
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Neil Patrick Harris Joins Doctor Who as ‘The Greatest Enemy the Doctor Has Ever Faced’
He’s playing Chris Chibnall?
He’s Peter Cregeen!
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Celestial Toymaker?
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He’s playing Chris Chibnall?
John Nathan-Turner. At least Chibnall didn’t get the show cancelled.
I am quite excited, I love pretty much all Russell T Davies’ work anyway, It’s A Sin was the biggest emotional rollercoaster I’ve felt with a TV show in years. The Bad Wolf/Sony tie-up though does seem to suggest they really want to push the show to another level.
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A colourisation of that scene from Tomb of the Cybermen, which actually has me halfway convinced that colourising black and white stories wouldn’t be a completely worthless venture. Look at that coat.
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Wow. That is very impressive. The technology for these things has really come on, over the years.
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October 23.
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There’s a long tradition of naming Doctor Who stories “The __________ of the ___________”.
When the second noun started being “The Doctor”, I think that’s when the the series took a downward turn.
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There’s a long tradition of naming Doctor Who stories “The __________ of the ___________”.
When the second noun started being “The Doctor”, I think that’s when the the series took a downward turn.
So… 1965 with “The Death of Doctor Who” then?
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There’s a long tradition of naming Doctor Who stories “The __________ of the ___________”.
When the second noun started being “The Doctor”, I think that’s when the the series took a downward turn.
So… 1965 with “The Death of Doctor Who” then?
Technically the story was called “The Chase”
But it was a good riposte
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This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by
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This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by .
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This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by
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There’s a long tradition of naming Doctor Who stories “The __________ of the ___________”.
When the second noun started being “The Doctor”, I think that’s when the the series took a downward turn.
But Day Of The Doctor is great!
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“Back in the day, [1980s producer] John Nathan-Turner, at the end of filming, said to Sylvester and me, ‘You might as well take your costumes home with you, because you’re probably going to be asked to do personal appearances before the next season’ I kind of wonder whether he knew it wasn’t going to happen and wanted us to be the guardians of those costumes. So I took my jacket, and it’s sat in my wardrobe for all these years.
“When I had that initial meeting with Chris [Chibnall, showrunner], I said, ‘I’ve still got my jacket…’. He said [gasps], ‘Have you? We’d love to see your jacket!’ So the first costume fitting, I took the jacket down to Cardiff. [Costume designer] Ray Holman said, ‘Can we borrow this to copy?’ and I said, ‘Why copy it? We’ll just use the jacket. You might have to sew the badges on again, though.’ Because the badges notoriously always fell off.
“We super-glued them on – I had sticking plasters on the back of the jacket, they put them on with nylon see-through thread, and they’d still fall off. Anyway, that’s what he did. I don’t think there’s any way you could spruce it up, really, because you can’t wash it or anything. It must be a bit smelly!”
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I am totally over Chibnall Dr Who. But that jacket. I might watch it for the jacket.
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Feels like the build-up to tonight’s episode has been pretty low-key for a big regeneration special.
Obviously given the filming leaks for the new RTD era, the expectation is that Whittaker will regenerate/degenerate into Tennant at the end. But I hope they give us a genuine surprise and actually give us a taste of the 14th Doctor, which would make it feel a bit more special.
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Well that was all very fast-paced and exciting, I’ll give them that. Not sure how well it all really hung together but at least it was eventful and rarely a dull moment.
I do think that dealing so heavily in regeneration and past Doctors in the main story somewhat took the shine off the ending regeneration scene though, which felt more like a “huh” moment than a “wow” moment.
Still, looking forward to the new RTD era.
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Ha! I knew Tennent was going to be in it but I figured it would be a cameo in passing. I’d avoided any speculation so the end was a proper surprise.
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Ha! I knew Tennent was going to be in it but I figured it would be a cameo in passing. I’d avoided any speculation so the end was a proper surprise.
I had seen it speculated about for a while (all the way down to the “what… what… what…?”) so maybe that’s why it didn’t land quite the same for me, but either way that small moment doesn’t change the fact that it should be fun to have Tennant back for a while.
The preview for 2023 did show the “real” new Doctor though, which felt strange to see him in a trailer before he’s debuted in the show. Has that happened since Eccleston?
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Not sure how well it all really hung together but at least it was eventful and rarely a dull moment.
This is pretty much my thoughts. Plenty that didnt hang together but it ticked along at a rapid pace that it didnt matter. When I eventually checked the time I was genuinely surprised to see only 10 minutes were left.
Only gripe was the absolute cringy Rasputin musical bit. Ball sack shrivellingly bad. Almost tops the Sound of Drums use of music which just makes me shudder every time i think of it.
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Only gripe was the absolute cringy Rasputin musical bit. Ball sack shrivellingly bad. Almost tops the Sound of Drums use of music which just makes me shudder every time i think of it.
I smiled at that as it was obviously a callback to that story (reminded me of Simm’s Scissor Sisters bit too).
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Bit of a bad start but it got better as it went on.
Stuff that worked:
– UNIT has guns stashed in the floor.
– The companion conversations with Five and Seven
– The past selves conversations on the Edge with One, Five, Six and Eight.
– Graham setting up a Companions Anonymous
Stuff that didn’t:
– The Master’s plan was a load of sweaty bollocks.
– The Master – just shut him up, rip his tongue out if you have to.
– Unstoppable villains with no weaknesses are boring.
As to how it ended, in a year’s time or however many months it is, I’ll forgotten it. The gaps between eps and series is too big.
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It kept going at a fair clip I’ll give it that. I basically just stopped focusing on the paper thin plot and instead just let it wash over me.
Seeing the previous Doctors was a nice surprise, but I really wish they had worked harder to keep Tennents return a secret though.
But at long last the national nightmare is over…Roll on RTD2!!.
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Yeah, the storytelling was messy as hell, Chibnall’s reach exceeded his grasp on that front again. There’s too many elements that are just introduced solely for the reason that they resolve something later rather than feeling like an organic part of the story. The glaring one here is Vindor, who’s mission is never really explained, he does nothing other than call the Doctor, is in position to hold a gun to the Doctor-Master, and then leaves at the climax.
But it moved at a good pace, and was full of enjoyable fanservice and good character moments. I found this extended farewell worked way better than Tennant’s, where that one was self-indulgent this one was more heartfelt while also being an excuse to cameo past companions. Probably in the upper tier of Chibnall-written “big” episodes, but mid-tier overall.
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Official BBC announcement here on the 2023 specials (and also interesting that Tennant is officially being referred to as the 14th Doctor and Ncuti Gatwa the 15th):
https://www.doctorwho.tv/news-and-features/david-tennant-is-the-fourteenth-doctor
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Yes the BBC’s new standard scheduling for Doctor Who is apparently three episodes a year now.
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A villainy that surpasses even Lew Grade
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Future GCSE maths exam question:
How many regenerations has the Doctor had?
Show your working.
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I suppose technically the Master is the 14th Doctor. Or 16th if you include War and Tennant 2. Or god knows how many if you include Ruth.
(Talking of which, her whole plot thread – and indeed all the Timeless Child stuff – barely seemed to warrant a mention here, let alone any real resolution.)
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Future GCSE maths exam question:
How many regenerations has the Doctor had?
Show your working.
Prior to this episode we were around 75 actors having played the Doctor between the show, radio plays, computer games and other side media, so who even knows.
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I thought that was largely dire. Frenetic nonsense that was so incomprehensible (what was the Master’s plan? Making a “cyber-conversion planet” so he can steal the Doctor’s body to sully her good name while something something Dalek volcanoes? Why not just go around calling yourself the Doctor – much simpler) that it had next to no dramatic weight. All the usual Chibnall flaws of crap dialogue (“the last time I saw you, you were half-cat” is not a put-down, Ace, it’s lumpen exposition) and regurgitating things done previously but worse (all the friends piloting the TARDIS for example. UNIT being cyber-converted was just like with Torchwood, but with the body horror replaced by magic electricity because… the convenience of a magic reverse electrocution, I guess).
That said, it was cool seeing Ace again and I did genuinely laugh at McGann’s robes line.
I was genuinely surprised by the ending. I’d heard suggestion of a degeneration or regenerating into Tennant again, but I dismissed it as being a bit trite and hackneyed and assumed Tennant was going to be some kind of duplicate/toy (his clothes regenerating too is a little suspicious on that front). It does feel a little bit like when it was suggested in the 80s, when the show was struggling, that they have the Doctor turn back into Pertwee. At least there’s an actual new Doctor on the horizon to make it seem less backwards facing a decision. I guess with Chibnall having steamrollered the whole “limited regeneration” into the dirt RTD felt free to let loose. I hope there’s something more than just a gimmick or stunt to it though.
Edit: oh and I don’t have any feelings either way for Yaz as a character, but she deserved better than that crap exit (I wouldn’t say John Bishop did, but I was surprised by how perfunctory it was). Completely arbitrarily pushed away, as if the Doctor regenerating is an unavoidable hard break on their friendship. It treats each iteration of the Doctor as a different person, rather than aspects of the same (somewhat contradicting the thing earlier with the AI). For what (diegetic) reason would the Doctor need to get rid of her, seemingly with total finality? It had no sense of validity to the characters and felt as elegant as Poochie’s death.
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Way longer than Liz Truss’s tenure.
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Completely arbitrarily pushed away, as if the Doctor regenerating is an unavoidable hard break on their friendship. It treats each iteration of the Doctor as a different person, rather than aspects of the same (somewhat contradicting the thing earlier with the AI).
And of course you had Clara recently as a double-Doctor companion.
Obviously it’s because Chibnall is leaving and they need a fresh start, but they could have found a better way of making that break-up essential.
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Completely arbitrarily pushed away, as if the Doctor regenerating is an unavoidable hard break on their friendship. It treats each iteration of the Doctor as a different person, rather than aspects of the same (somewhat contradicting the thing earlier with the AI).
And of course you had Clara recently as a double-Doctor companion.
Obviously it’s because Chibnall is leaving and they need a fresh start, but they could have found a better way of making that break-up essential.
Yeah. Presumably he was aware of whether RTD (and Gill) wanted Yaz to stick around or not but just completely forgot to factor that into the plot of the episode and ended up doing another classic series homage by creating an abrupt exit on the same level as “I’m going to stay with these people I’ve known five minutes” and “I’m going to marry this guy I’ve had about two scenes with”.
And it’s especially baffling given you had Tegan and Ace around, both repeatedly bringing up their own baggage about leaving/no longer seeing the Doctor. A competent writer might have tied that into Yaz’s exit (in the same way School Reunion made Rose re-evaluate her relationship with the Doctor in light of learning about Sarah Jane) but the two things just don’t really engage beyond Yaz going to Graham’s support group thing.
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I enjoyed it, plot quite nonsensical but that’s not a first on a big special. As with Flux the relentless pace rather obscured the weaknesses and the latter Chibnall stories have been better in that aspect. My complaints about him generally have been his work on Who is bland more than bad so still happy to see his era end.
My favourite of the cameos was Ian Chesterton who was in the very first episode – 97 years old and looking very good for it.
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“And then this happens and then this happens and then this happens and then this happens and then this happens and then this happens and then this happens and then David Tennant!”
The highlight here was unquestionably Liverpool’s nonchalant bye-then exit. Hopefully Tennant was paying attention or else he’ll aim for an even longer second goodbye.
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https://deadline.com/2022/10/doctor-who-moves-to-disney-plus-outside-uk-and-ireland-1235154220/
Rumours about this popped up a little while back, but that’s it confirmed now. Sounds like a good move to get more eyes on the show.
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It treats each iteration of the Doctor as a different person
I liked this idea. I actually really liked the meeting of the companions as well. I referred to it elsewhere as a meeting of the Doctor’s “children”. For the Doctor scholars here, I pose a question. Is Graham the only companion who is also a parent? I may be biased because I am dealing with a relapse of feelings about my mother’s death, but I thought Graham’s gathering of the abandoned companions was a nice touch in that the companions could deal with emotions they could not discuss with others.
If the rumors of what the storyline of next years eps are true, Yaz would be lost at best and an unnecessary complication at worst. I think the story did its best to let Yaz down easy from a VERY difficult situation. Like Clara’s love towards 11, Yaz’s love for 13 had to be dealt with(and not with a quick phone call). 14 has his own problems to deal with. Leaving Yaz in a group of people who can attempt to understand what she is going through is a lot better than dropping her off and wishing her “good luck”
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Also, you just know Big Finish are making plans in the wake of all this.
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Is Graham the only companion who is also a parent?
Amy and Rory had a kid. Quite notably. Jo was shown to be a grandparent when she came back for the Sarah Jane Adventures, where Sarah Jane was a parent.
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And, of course, Wilf and Donna.
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Well, guess I’m buying DWM for the first time in about 14 years.
https://www.doctorwhonews.net/2022/11/doctor_who_magazine_issue_584.html
The latest issue of Doctor Who Magazine begins the story of the Fourteenth Doctor, David Tennant.
Although it will be a year until we see his TV adventures, the story continues in Doctor Who Magazine issue 584
A new comic-strip adventure, written by Alan Barnes and illustrated by Lee Sullivan, picks up directly where The Power of the Doctor left off.
Editor Marcus Hearn says
“Russell T Davies, our new showrunner, has long admired the DWM strip. And that’s why he’s granted us the honour of telling the Fourteenth Doctor’s first story in an adventure that dovetails with the most recent episode. For the first time in our 43-year history, the strip is now in lockstep with the television series continuity.”Russell T Davies says
“From day one, I wanted to increase ties between the show and the magazine. I love it when we’re in sync! A lot of people will be thinking, David’s not the real Doctor, he’s a trick, an illusion, a flashback. But no. He’s real. And DWM can help us underline that.”Damn you, Davies! Have you seen how much that mag costs now?
Oh, this bit sounds interesting too.
<i>Letter from the Showrunner</i> – in the first of his new regular columns, Russell T Davies reveals what brought him back to <i>Doctor Who</i>.
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I thought this was interesting too:
Reach up for the Sunrise – David Tennant, Russell T Davies, former showrunner Chris Chibnall, directors Rachel Talalay and Jamie Magnus Stone, and CG artist Ben Pickles describe shooting The Power of the Doctor’s regeneration sequence.
It had passed me by that Rachel Talalay was involved with making Power Of The Doctor. I presume she filmed the post-Whittaker part of the regeneration, in line with previous showrunner handovers taking place at that point? If it’s an indication that she’s back for the 60th Anniversary specials then that’s great news, as her Capaldi-era episodes are some of the show’s best.
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I picked up the magazine at lunchtime and it confirms that, yep, she’s directing the first of the 2023 specials. Great news!
Looking forward to checking out some of the features (and the comic) in more detail later. Thanks for the heads up!
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RTD 2, the time-travel boogaloo?
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