Talk DC films and television stuff here.
DC Movies & TV Forever
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So I watched it all in 4 hours. Don’t do that…..
but dear god I felt every second of that run time.
Uhm… then why didn’t you stop at any point?
I don’t get people complaining about the lenght of the movie…
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I don’t get people complaining about the lenght of the movie…
My wife wanted to keep watching. After that I had no choice
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Also, for the people making fun of me for constantly saying how much WB keeps trying to sabotage Snyder:
https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a35886906/zack-snyder-cut-justice-league-interview/
Esquire: Along with everyone else, I have a ton of questions about the epilogue too. This was entirely from a new shoot, right?
Snyder: So here’s the situation. In that whole sequence, the new is the Batman Joker scene. If this is my last DC movie, I felt it was going to be rude for me to have never gotten Batman and Joker together in a scene. And so I kind of came up with that scene. The last scene with Martian Manhunter, originally, I had shot it in England. And the dialogue was very similar, but it was supposed to be one of the Lanterns.
And then the studio had told me I wasn’t allowed to shoot anything. That there would be no film made of any kind. During production, that was a thing they insisted on. And I shot stuff anyway, of course, in my yard. And one of the things I shot was the Green Lantern scene. And then they asked me, when they saw the movie and saw that I put it in there, they’d take it out. And I said that I would quit if they tried to take it out. And I felt bad. The truth is I didn’t want the fans to not have a movie, just based on that one stand that I was going to take.
And the Green Lantern was John Stewart. And that was part of it too. I was like, I don’t want to take a person of color out of this movie. I’m not going to do it. And, but then, but I felt like having Harry Lennix’s Martian Manhunter at the end was, that was okay.
All the way to the end, man… they just can’t help themselves… u_u
Also, quite a good interview, he lays out A LOT of what his plans were… Ahhh what could’ve been… an epic for the ages =(
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It’s all bullshit though isn’t it Jon. The idea that he wasn’t allowed to film stuff but he still did anyway, and they didn’t want to include it but he made them… If they really cared about any of this shit they wouldn’t have included the footage. If he was really such a problem, such a thorn in their side, such an impossible maverick to work with, then they would have cancelled the project altogether.
The whole thing is designed to push this narrative that the project represents some kind of victory against The Man and some kind of validation of the Snyder fans. Which is what they want it to be, rather than the dull reality of what it is – a company putting some cash into making an alternate cut of a movie that didn’t do very well the first time around, in the hope that they can extract some additional value from it, riding off the free publicity of a vocal fanbase.
Snyder simply saying “yes I didn’t film very much extra stuff, and ultimately I couldn’t include everything I wanted” wouldn’t be as exciting a narrative.
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It’s a win against all a, all a them dude. (Who I’m giving money to in order to watch it.)
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Lying? Nah, most of us have read DC’s comics output – we know they regularly self-sabotage.
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The problem is you guys immediatly assume that the dude is lying… why?
I don’t assume he’s lying. I just don’t think that acknowledging that he had to negotiate over specifics of what would be in the movie equates to the studio trying to sabotage him. These conversations are always going to happen around these big movies with connections to other projects.
This is all about spin, and positioning this alternate cut of the movie as some big victory and pushback. It’s literally the same people making money out of it all. This narrative is being used to make it all seem a lot more exciting to the Snyder fans, to make them feel like they’ve won a war because they’ve paid to see two cuts of the same movie.
WB are making money out of making you mad at them.
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I’m not calling anyone here an idiot, even if they do choose to voluntarily sit through a four-hour Zack Snyder DC superhero movie.
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Can I call Zack Snyder an idiot if he’s incapable of forming a coherent sentence? Cos I have no clue what he was saying in that quote.
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Look what happens when you give in to terrorists
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Look what happens when you give in to terrorists
Yeah, about that:
WarnerMedia’s Ann Sarnoff on ‘Zack Snyder’s Justice League’ and DC’s Future
WarnerMedia Studios CEO Ann Sarnoff says that the release of “Zack Snyder’s Justice League” will complete the director’s superhero trilogy, reinforcing the studio’s desire to move past the social media campaign to hand back control of the DC film universe to the filmmaker.
Instead, Sarnoff believes that the future of DC is more than just movies. She’s excited about a multi-platform future, one that sees Batman, Superman, the Flash, and other Justice League members popping up on streaming shows, video games, television spinoffs, and big screen outings. It’s a vision that echoes what Marvel has been doing with its Avengers characters, taking superheroes like the Vision, the Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye and Loki, who have previously appeared only in movies, and giving them streaming shows of their own. The WarnerMedia Studios chief is also excited about the diverse range of creators she’s been enlisting to tell some of these stories, which includes tapping “Between the World and Me” author Ta-Nehisi Coates to write a Superman film or developing “Blue Beetle,” which marks the company’s first Latinx superhero movie.
But Sarnoff may have to deal with an unruly and emboldened fanbase, one that successfully pushed WarnerMedia to release a four-hour, R-rated version of “Justice League,” which was truer to Snyder’s darker vision for the characters. Sarnoff spoke to Variety on Sunday, five days after the Snyder Cut started streaming on HBO Max, about catering to DC’s fanbase, the future of DC, and actor Ray Fisher’s allegations of misconduct and racial bias during the shooting of “Justice League.”
Why did you decide to release the “Zack Snyder’s Justice League”?
We wanted to give Zack the opportunity to complete his vision in a four-hour movie, which is impossible to do in theaters. We’re happy that we have HBO Max to let the rope out as it were and allow the fans to see all four-hours of Zack’s vision.
What are your plans going forward for DC?
We’ve got an incredible group of creators — television series creators, Max series creators, feature film creators — who are basically broadening the base of the talent that we work with on DC because we’re so excited about the potential to build out the DC multiverse. It’s one of the reasons why I was hired almost two years ago. The before-and-after was it was a very siloed organization with no connectivity between the businesses. DC was being developed, but in a kind of monolithic way in each division. My mantra coming in was to make it bigger and broader and we really want to surprise and delight the fans with more connective tissue across the various media and platforms. I’m talking movies, HBO Max, television and our games division.
The Snyder Cut came about because of a fan campaign online. Do you feel like you need to strike a balance between being responsive to fans and charting your own course as a company? How responsive do you believe DC should be?
We’re always going to listen to our fans, but we are in service of the broadest fanbase and we owe them an integrated, holistic strategy. We are the shepherds of the franchise and hopefully when the fans see what we’ve got in store they’ll know that DC is in good hands across many different platforms with many different creators. We want different voices in the mix. For certain fans that want singular voices, they may be disappointed, but we would ask them to be patient and see what we’ve got in store because perhaps the newer voices in the mix will have just as compelling stories to tell. On balance, you of course want to listen to your fans, but we do want to stay true to our vision and our mission for DC and build that out.
We have weekly meetings with our key execs in every division. Last August, I was made head of studios and networks and I now have all of the creative groups underneath me, so now around that table it’s not just Warner Bros. film, Warner Bros. television, and Warner Bros. games, but it includes HBO and HBO Max and the Turner networks, Adult Swim, and the Kids and Family networks. We are involving all of those people in our plans going forward and that means the media is going to be more connected, sometimes in subtle ways and sometimes in more overt ways. Like opposite “The Suicide Squad” we’re spinning out “Peacemaker” with James Gunn and Jon Cena passionately developing that for HBO Max. It’s my job to make sure we super serve our fans across all demos and all fanbases.
There’s also been a toxic side to the fandom, with reports that critics and some of your executives have received threats for not endorsing the Snyder Cut or for being perceived as standing in the way of its release. What’s your reaction to that behavior?
We’re not tolerating any of that. That behavior is reprehensible no matter what franchise you’re talking about or what business you’re talking about. It’s completely unacceptable. I’m very disappointed in the fans that have chosen to go to that negative place with regard to DC, with regard to some of our executives. It’s just disappointing because we want this to be a safe place to be. We want DC to be a fandom that feels safe and inclusive. We want people to be able to speak up for the things they love, but we don’t want it to be a culture of cancelling things that any small faction isn’t happy with. We are not about that. We are about positivity and celebration.
The campaign for #ReleaseTheSnyderCut has moved into a new phase. It’s now #RestoreTheSnyderVerse. What’s your reaction to this new campaign?
I appreciate that they love Zack’s work and we are very thankful for his many contributions to DC. We’re just so happy that he could bring his cut of the “Justice League” to life because that wasn’t in the plan until about a year ago. With that comes the completion of his trilogy. We’re very happy we’ve done this, but we’re very excited about the plans we have for all the multi-dimensional DC characters that are being developed right now.
Will there be more of these director’s cuts? Will we see David Ayer’s cut of “Suicide Squad”?
We won’t be developing David Ayer’s cut.
Looking at the DC slate, there seems to be an emphasis on creating opportunities for diverse creators and and characters. You’ve got a Latino superhero movie with “Blue Beetle,” Sasha Calle becoming the first Latinx actress to portray Supergirl, and Ta-Nehisi Coates writing a Superman movie. Is there a concerted effort to take the brand in a more inclusive direction?
It’s super important to me and it’s in line with what we want to do. We want to branch out and let creators interpret parts of the universe in unique and special ways. Ta-Nehisi working on Superman is incredibly exciting, I can’t wait to see what he comes up with, and [director] Andy Muschietti on “The Flash” or Patty Jenkins. Matt Reeves just finished filming “The Batman” against the odds of COVID. We’re so excited to finish that movie and have people see it, because Matt’s take on Batman is different than other takes. Even familiar characters have lots of possibilities.
You talked about breaking down silos in the company. What does that mean for DC?
Creators want to have franchises that are larger than life, but oftentimes you start working with a company and that company has discrete divisions, so you become a film creator, you become a television creator and never the twain shall meet. My role is to pull people together towards a vision that can make the whole more than the sum of the parts. One of the key aspects of that is having a long-range plan. These movies and TV series can take two-plus years to make, so if you’re not planning out and bringing other people into the plan that further accentuates the silos. It’s having the plan and then it’s having the strategy where all of the various businesses work in harmony to create the plan. It seems logical, but it’s very rarely done well. One of the things that I said to the group early was never let your fans see your org chart and boy could the fans see our org chart in 2019.
How did viewers and fans see the org charts when it came to DC?
They saw this character in movies and it had nothing to do with that character in TV. Creating that more unified vision, which is coming together with Peacemaker spinning off of “The Suicide Squad” and you’ll see a lot more of that going forward. You’ll also see original things in businesses that don’t relate, and that’s okay too, but we’re in charge of that decisionmaking about whether to connect dots or not.
We don’t want to be predictable. We want fans to spot Easter Eggs at the end of the movie that relate to a movie or show coming up or a show about to launch on HBO Max. We can harken back to something that was said in “The Flash” movie or there could be a cameo appearance of one of the actors from one movie into a current show.
Ray Fisher has accused Warner Bros. executives of racially biased behavior and of trying to impede an investigation into alleged misconduct on the set of “Justice League.” Did your investigation corroborate any of his claims of racism on the part of your employees?
No. Our investigator, Judge Katherine Forrest, has issued statements specifically about [DC Films president] Walter Hamada, saying that there was no evidence of interference by Walter in the investigation. She said that the cuts made in the Joss Whedon version of “Justice League” were not racially motivated. We took it very seriously, so we hired one of the top investigators out there and gave her a tremendous amount of leeway.
Ray Fisher has previously stated that because of a non-disclosure agreement he can’t share specifics about the abusive behavior he endured on the set of “Justice League.” Is there an NDA that would prevent him from publicly sharing all the details of what transpired on “Justice League”?
Not that I know of. No.
[Editor’s note: A spokesperson for Fisher responded to Variety’s request for comment with the following statement, “Mr. Fisher is no longer under NDA and will comment further when appropriate to do so.”]
Walter Hamada has been on the receiving end of a lot of fan criticism. What was his involvement in the production of “Justice League”?
Walter had nothing to do with “Justice League.” He was not running DC Films in 2017 when “Justice League” was completed and released. He wasn’t put in charge of DC Films until the following year. About a year ago, Walter, [Warner Bros. Pictures Group head] Toby Emmerich, me, [former WarnerMedia chairman] Bob Greenblatt, [former HBO Max content chief] Kevin Reilly, and [HBO Max original programming head] Sarah Aubrey sat around the table with Zack and greenlit the Snyder cut. That cut includes Ray Fisher’s entire story as Cyborg, which is something that he had been disappointed had been cut from the Justice League movie three years ago. Perhaps we’ve lost the plot a little bit which is that Toby and Walter were part of the green-lighting that allowed Zack’s vision to come to life, which includes sharing the full story about Ray’s character. There really was nothing that Walter did against Ray, in fact he offered him a role in the Flash movie.
Walter was promoted recently. I am fully supportive of Toby and Walter and their visions. I truly believe they are great executives. Walter happens to be a person of color, so he knows what that feels like. He is bringing in diverse voices at an accelerated pace, more than anyone has in the past.
You talked about enlisting a broad range of voices when it comes to charting the future of DC. Is there one person calling the shots?
The connective tissue in the middle is Jim Lee, who oversees DC Comics. Jim lives and breathes the canon of DC and he works with all of the divisions to make sure the storylines are true to the canon. He helps them come up with ideas for new storylines. Jim is very much in the middle of everything. But the group together helps spur on new ideas. But there’s not one person calling the shots, because I want all the voices in the room to offer their expertise and knowledge of their formats.
As superheroes pop up in movies, on television, streaming shows, and games, how do you make sure there’s not too much of a good thing. Couldn’t that lead to oversaturation?
One of the reasons, I’m excited about our strategy going forward is it is multidimensional. We’re not just serving the same fanbase with the same creative vision, we’re trying to expand it. Not every fan has to love every piece of what we’re doing, but we’re putting out more tentacles to be able to reach people with different stories on different platforms, so there isn’t fatigue. It’s not just the same cadence. We’re going to mix things up. We’ll have a slate of DC movies but it will be richer and more multi-dimensional with a broader array of characters. That will help reduce the fatigue, because you’ll see a whole story about the Flash and then you’ll see sequels like “Aquaman 2,” or new takes on Superman, or Shazam which plays to a family audience. There would be fatigue if we stayed on a more singular path, but because we are broadening, we’ll have much more potential to grow the franchise across various demos and various types of fans.
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Damn, that’s one hell of a puff piece…
Also, it seems they’re really gonna throw to the trash the massive boost the snyder cut just gave them (not to mention wiping that foul taste WW84 left in everyone’s mouth)… it’s… incredible, astounding really… it all reads like “we haven’t learnt shit”… gg
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The Snyder Verse thing, or the DCEU, whatever we’re calling it now, has been kicking around for about 9 years now and in all that time has left very little in terms of pop culture footprint. The bits that have tend to be the ones that Snyder was not wholly involved in, like Harley Quinn and Wonder Woman (and their sequels may have screwed up interest in them going forward). Aquaman was a big hit so we’ll see what happens with that sequel (although the Amber Heard tabloid fodder may still overshadow it). The only Snyder parts that have lingered are the memes like Martha and Sad Ben Affleck. From a business point of view Warner can hardly be blamed for feeling like it is time to let the thing go and move on.
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That’s a wee bit tone deaf considering the (seemingly, for now, but looking very likely) ginormous success of the Snyder cut… you know, a movie most people “already saw”.
How are you measuring that ginormous success?
Beyond the hardcore Snyder fans and comics readers I haven’t seen anyone talking about the release.
I think WB probably judged correctly that there might be a sufficient core of Snyder-verse fans that it was financially viable to put together an alternate cut of Justice League for streaming, but they don’t want to tank their wider franchise for mainstream audiences by tying it all to the vision of a relatively niche-interest director.
I think the writing has probably been on the wall for Snyder ever since BvS under-performed.
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Jon, you realize that you’re beginning to sound like an annoying little Snyder-bitch now, don’t you? Why can’t somebody express an opinion or thought that differs from yours without some kind of sarcastic comment from you? It’s just tiresome; enough already, please!
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Jon, you realize that you’re beginning to sound like an annoying little Snyder-bitch now, don’t you? Why can’t somebody express an opinion or thought that differs from yours without some kind of sarcastic comment from you? It’s just tiresome; enough already, please!
Because I only get snark and shit all the time as well… fair is fair.
Case in point:
How are you measuring that ginormous success? Beyond the hardcore Snyder fans and comics readers I haven’t seen anyone talking about the release.
Because, clearly unlike you, I’m actually following this thing, so I’ve seen news like:
https://www.looper.com/360438/zack-snyders-justice-league-sends-hbo-max-crashing-down/
And plenty more from where those came from… I saw some numbers on twitter earlier, but can’t find them anymore (and don’t want to waste time to get more snarky answers anyhow). I’m sure someone will compile all this info eventually.
Oh and since friday (even before) I’ve read/heard/watched probably upwards of 200+ reviews from a LARGE range of reviewers (not only snyder fanboys) to get a good inkling of how it’s doing… I’m following the rating movements… I’m also lighlty keeping track of the absurd amount of Youtube videos it’s generated in general, from reviews and debates, to reaction videos and interviews, in spanish, french and english.
So instead of treating me like just a dumbshit fanboy, maybe just take me at my word, because I’m clearly more informed on this whole thing simply because you guys don’t care… and that’s fine, but seriously…
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Sorry, I wasn’t clear – I meant people I knew in real life, not the usual youtubers and websites that are always going to cover this stuff. I’m talking about how it connects with the average viewer rather than the people who are already plugged into this stuff.
Because I think there’s an element of echo chamber around all the Snyder Cut stuff in general, and I’m not sure it really represents the larger audience awareness of this stuff.
In comparison, something like WandaVision (say) has been mentioned to me by several different people who aren’t into comics and aren’t even necessarily massive MCU fans. It seems to have got that wider traction whereas I think the Snyder Cut was always a niche interest thing.
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Ok, I don’t want to drag this out because I don’t think it’s going anywhere, and I don’t want it to get unpleasant, so it’s probably time to step away.
All I would say is that when we’ve got parallel arguments in one thread that Captain Marvel has obviously been a failure that Marvel wants to get away from (despite making over a billion dollars) and in another that WB are shooting themselves in the foot by not following Snyder’s vision (despite a series of under-performing DC movies) then I think we probably have to acknowledge that personal preferences are clouding the arguments a little.
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Yeah sure, that works for me… I do hope you at least skim some of those links I posted… I mean… proof’s in the pudding or whatever the expression is.
but they don’t want to tank their wider franchise for mainstream audiences by tying it all to the vision of a relatively niche-interest director. I think the writing has probably been on the wall for Snyder ever since BvS under-performed.
Forgot to reply to this earlier… yes, you are correct about this much. Sarnoff’s propaganda piece just made it clear that they vehemently oppose the idea of Snyder continuing, no matter how much money it makes them, so that’s pretty much all there is to it, unless a higher up intervenes, and I don’t see that happening unless they’re planning on firing some people.
In the end, I’m sure Snyder doesn’t care… at this point he’s one of the (of not THE) hottest directors at the moment, I’m sure Netflix is VERY happy with all of this, and I’m sure Netflix will be more than willing to accomodate him, and if not Netflix, someone else. That level of name recognition has value, someone will take advantage of it… it’s WB’s loss
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Snyder is a bit weird in interviews, but usually positive and endearing. He’s also fairly fan friendly and I think he runs a good set and has positive professional attitude on set. This was a surprising accomplishment even though, personally, it doesn’t quite click in as entertaining. It kinda reminds me of the GODZILLA movies in that regard where there were some obvious character development opportunities that weren’t handled very well. Again, I think he could tell a great story in a movie IF he just had a writer and producer who would lay the groundwork in the script and keep him disciplined in that regard. As a director though, it is hard to deny that he’s really on the same level as Nolan, Fincher, Cameron or Bay.
I’ll check out his next film, certainly.
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Respec’…
He really does ramble on like a mofo though
Man, I can’t wait for GvK… more WETA eye-candy, more Junkie XL ear-candy and more “versus” silliness… it’s like BvS all over again =P
Speaking of, shout out to WETA too, I don’t know if they were the only VFX house that worked on the snydercut, but daaamn, they dived straight into ZSJL right after finishing GvK, and they did a bang up job with only 7 months… pretty impressive.
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Ooops, nope, nevermind, that was just a clickbait article… no actual recent quote… u_u
Fuckin’ “mainstream media” I swear…
Here, some comedy to replace that clickbait crap:
If you’ve finished watching the #Snydercut the job is not finished, here’s your chance to watch the #ColbertCut pic.twitter.com/UnjSPjQA3F
— A Late Show (@colbertlateshow) March 23, 2021
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Thinking more about Snyder, part of me wonders whether he would have been a better fit for The Authority. His slick action and more hard-edged, consciously “adult” yet still somewhat juvenile take on superheroes could have worked well there, maybe even pushing it into slightly more satirical territory.
Just feels like it might have been the right fit to me.
Then again maybe he takes it all too seriously for something like that. I get the sense that with his DC movies he’s always been reaching for something genuinely profound.
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Yeah, I don’t think that Snyder has the humour that would be needed to really make the Authority work on-screen. His style seems more like a 13 year-old boy attempting to create something epic. The intention is clear but the execution is clumsy. And in slow motion.
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His style seems more like a 13 year-old boy attempting to create something epic.
How does that description not fit the edgelords Mark “tell, don’t show” Millar and Warren “technobabble” Ellis, exactly?
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Thinking more about Snyder, part of me wonders whether he would have been a better fit for The Authority. His slick action and more hard-edged, consciously “adult” yet still somewhat juvenile take on superheroes could have worked well there, maybe even pushing it into slightly more satirical territory.
The Authority was satire, wasn’t it? “What if Batman and Superman were fucking? *snigger*” I’m pretty sure Warren Ellis’ tongue was permanently jammed in his cheek through much of his career.
The thought of a Znyder Authority chills me to the bone though – just endless slow-mo shots of people getting their jaws punched off, set to sad music.
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Satire, yes. Not something I would imagine Snyder could convey on screen.
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The Authority was satire, wasn’t it? “What if Batman and Superman were fucking? *snigger*” I’m pretty sure Warren Ellis’ tongue was permanently jammed in his cheek through much of his career.
Yeah, that’s exactly what I mean. That element wasn’t present in the Snyder DC movies, but his overwrought style feels like it could fit the heightened silliness that’s part of The Authority. I’m just not sure Snyder would be in on the joke.
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Yeah, I don’t think that Snyder has the humour that would be needed to really make the Authority work on-screen. His style seems more like a 13 year-old boy attempting to create something epic. The intention is clear but the execution is clumsy. And in slow motion.
Yeah, the Authority is basically a parody of Snyder’s breed of Superhero movies that predated his work.
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I didn’t think anything could potentially be worse than Avengers: Endgame
I fucking love and adore Avengers: Endgame. I couldn’t give the first toss that the time travel logic makes no sense (it never does).
It is an amazing piece of fanservice where every moment they set up in advance and is deserved, when a character pops through a portal we like it because they set it up so the fans did.
If I feel a little down my therapy is playing Endgame audience reaction videos. It’s amazing.
I’m not ashamed to admit, every time I see that scene, I still cry.
Fifty years I’ve been reading Marvel comics. And then… that.
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I enjoyed Promising Young Woman and Zatanna has tons of potential, so hopefully she comes up with a solid script.
I swear, before I saw Chris’s response I thought that headline was calling Emerald Fennell a promising young woman, and that seemed really condescending.
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Snyder is the Alex Ross of SH movie directors…
Oof. I’ve a feeling Ross would disagree. Kingdom Come was an expression of disgust against the whole 90’s-esque ethos that Snyder seems to embody.
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Snyder is the Alex Ross of SH movie directors
Snyder is the Rob Liefeld of SH movie directors. He’s just interested in making every shot (page) look cool. Nothing else really matters. And sometimes that’s perfectly fine.
And it’s a stretch to call what WB did “sabotage” – they’re not enemies after all; it’s in their interests for the JL film in any incarnation to be a success. They must have legitimately felt that Snyder’s original approach was going to tank and so moved to make changes to maximise its success.
I’ve watched the first 40 mins of The Snyder Cut (having thought both BvS and the prior JL were meh); will watch it in random instalments and then listen to The Big Picture’s live-Podcast up to the point I’ve seen. They recorded their show during their very first viewing, so they’re clearly not taking it very seriously, but it’s a good companion.
The greatest shame of all this is that we miss out on several films of what could and should have been the best Batman; Affleck’s great.
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But hey, it’s the Flash movie that was supposed to come out, what, 3 years ago?
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I finally finished watching it and while it is much more informative and I enjoyed some of the additions (Ryan Choi) and agreed with some of Snyder’s changes from the previously released movie(the end fight was much better than Whedon’s). My main thought was Please, God don’t let him make another film. The Black suit and the “Lois is the key” stuff is garbage. the end scene with Joker is garbage. Bringing Supes back to life just to have him flip into Snyder’s Knightmare Villain is such a stupid idea, imo, that I am not going to engage with anyone who wants to defend it.
6/10 if it remains a stand alone movie
2/10 if it gets a sequel
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The stars react to the Snyder Cut:
Here's what some of Hollywood's biggest actors thought of the Snyder Cut.. #RestoreTheSnyderVerse pic.twitter.com/j3pXFzXxUd
— Al Foran (@ImpressionistAL) March 24, 2021
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How many spikes do you think they’ll add to Doctor Fate’s helmet?
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10% of the Snyder cut is in slo mo
https://www.ign.com/articles/snyder-cut-justice-league-10-slow-motion-slo-mo
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Right off the bat I count at least five actors there who have appeared in MCU films
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Gunn put on Twitter that the trailer is out tomorrow.
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It looks fine for a beer and film night but nothing I’d risk covid for in the cinema.
That’s basically been my attitude about all the DCEU films even BEFORE covid. Wonder Woman 1 excepted, of course.
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Are you saying you’re not going to watch it?
I downloaded it and checked it out a bit, I’m not into B&W stuff, tbh… he did a good job, and some of the scenes (usually the more quiet character driven scenes) look really good, some other bits not so much. But if anyone loved Mad Max or Logan in B&W maybe they’ll enjoy this, Snyder has a great eye for lightning so like I said, it looks rather good.
Took this screenshot of Batman:
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Also, yeah that SQ2 trailer looks exactly like what I was expecting, which is a non-butchered version of what they tried to do to SQ1 when they butchered it, i.e.: marvelize the shit out of it to create a GotG knock-off… oh and with dick and vagina jokes, to attract the DP crowd I guess…
Not terribly excited for it, but I suppose I’ll check it out… I do enjoy Harley, I’m glad to see more of Viola Davis, Jay Courtney’s Cpt. Boomerang is fun (although he’s probably getting killed) and I’ve grown to appreciate Joel Kinneman (although he’s probably getting killed too).
I’m honestly more interested in watching Ayer’s cut of SQ1.
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9 episodes in the can. Five more in post. Twelve being animated overseas. Pre-production is virtually done. https://t.co/QmcyRIWu5f
— Greg Weisman (@Greg_Weisman) March 25, 2021
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I’m confused how Suicide Squad abbreviates to SQ.
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I’m confused how Suicide Squad abbreviates to SQ.
To be fair, the alternative is SS, and I hear that has negative connotations.
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I’m confused how Suicide Squad abbreviates to SQ.
It’s short for Suicides Quad…
It makes it easier… SS can be many many things, including super soldier-related shit, or Silver Surfer
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Well anyways, I haven’t had the time to write a proper review (I still don’t) but I’m gonna try to do it anyhow, as short as I can:
The good:
Well let’s get the very obvious things out the way first: The CGI is a vast improvement (even if there are still some really bad shots), no Superman CGI upper lip, the score is MUCH better (even if the WW yodeling does get annoying at some point)… the characters are actual characters this time around, the cringy dialogues and jokes are gone etc, etc… right.
What really impressed me is how efficient this movie is at doing what it set out to do, sure the 4 hours help (and let’s be honest you could cut a good hour of this to bring it closer to Endgame’s runtime without completely butchering the movie), but considering this was for all intents and purposes a Cyborg origin movie, plus the fact it did a good job of introducing the Flash and Aquaman in a way that leaves you with both an understanding of the characters and wanitng to see more… AND the fact that it introduced the larger DCU context too (Atlanteans, Apokolips, Darkseid, the old gods, the Lanterns, etc…)… AND the fact that it continued the Trinity’s storylines… man, yeah this movie actually managed to pull all of that off, which is pretty impressive all in all.
Not only all of that, but this might be one of the best third acts in a SH movie, because here, despite all the hurdles, Snyder managed to make the JL feel like a cohesive team, where everyone has a reason to be there, and more importantly: they all contribute to the fight ahead. In the theatrical, once Superman shows it’s over, there’s nothing else for anyone else to do, they might as well all go home because Snyder’s Superman is very much OP and could handle everything himseld. In the Snydercut, the same is true for Superman, but the plot finds a way of making at least Cyborg and Flash integral parts of the story, and this time around without them, the world is fucked, despite Superman’s clear OPness.
In a way, this might be Snyder’s best movie so far, despite his usual excesses, because it’s very well structured and paced and again: efficient. It also shows that not only Snyder had a plan, but that it was exactly what DC/WB wanted, in terms of fast-tracking their universe to compete with Marvel.
I’ve always said that you don’t need to start with one solo movie for each SH before doing the big team up… that’s just bullshit. There’s not just ONE way of doing things, and here we get a clear example of this. This movie could’ve/would’ve been the srpingboard for an entire DC cinematic universe. Hell, WW1 could’ve come out after this as well, wouldn’t have made a difference, because this movie does all the heavy lifiting of introducing people to all of these characters and lore, and it actually does it in an entertaining, cohesive, coherent way that leaves you wanting more, all the while setting up a plan for an epic battle to rival Marvle in the future.
I (and I think most people) will never understand how anyone at WB/DC would look at this and say “nah, this is shit, let’s bring in Whedon to put in some dated shitty jokes”.
But anyhow, despite what I said of this probably being Snyder’s best movie yet, again, in a way, when all was said and done, I still felt like something was missing, and when I asked myself “did I enjoy this more than MoS?” the answer was a resounding “Fuck no!” but the most surprising thing is that I also like BvS more… and so I spent a few days thinking about that “missing thing”, and I finally came up with the answer, so that brings us to the bad… I’ll do a second post for it though.
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The bad:
Again, let me get the obvious bits out of the way first:
– Some of the CGI is truly truly horrible. Fortunately, most of the movie is good, but there are still some CGI shots that look like ass. Now, I’m sure that’s not a gigantic problem for most people, hell, it never gets as bad as the worst of the theatrical’s CGI, but if you’re like me, this will bum you out. That said, given the circumstances of the Snydercut, I can forgive it… in fact, it’s pretty much a miracle the movie looks as good as it does, I was really not expecting it to. My hat is off to the VFX teams who worked on this, they really did a titanic job and a good 85% of the movie looks amazing.
-The Marthan Manhunter scene: Nope, sorry, that was a complete mistake. I get the intention, and I’m sure people would’ve lost their minds at the reveal (I already knew it was coming), but just no. Beyond the CG which wasn’t great, the real issue is how that dumb cameo destroys the scene that preceded it, which was not only a great touching scene between Lois & Martha, but it was a much needed scene, and by forcefully insterting MM in that scene, it lessens the whole thing. The cameo at the end was more than enough. Sure, yes, the cameo at the end was supposed to be GL, so MM was supposed to appear just that once, but since things turned out the way they did, Snyder should’ve removed that first bit. So yeah, that one MM bit is BY FAR the worst part of the movie.
-The Knightmare future scene at the end: Listen, I don’t hate it, and I like that it’s there… but it should’ve been at the end, post-credits, well separated from the rest of the movie (Luhtor’s bit too). Wedging it after the closing of the movie just doesn’t work. Other than that, yeah the scene looks iffy, but again, understandable given the situation, so I’m not gonna rail on it too much for its much lesser visual quality. The other thing that I don’t love is the dialogue, and here you can see how Snyder is indeed not the best writer in the business… some of that dialogue was BAD. But overall, fine, it’s a great teaser, buit just move it the fuck away from the rest of the movie.
Honestly, those are the most glaring issues as far as I’m concerned… the rest falls down into the postivie category. But that brings me to that thing I felt was missing, which is my biggest issue with the movie, and yet it’s not really an issue at all in itself, but it’s something that lessened my overall enjoyment of the film:
While the movie is a direct continuation of BvS (much like BvS was a continuation of MoS, how cool is that, btw), there’s one HUGE theme that’s missing from this movie: Humanity’s POV.
So, part of why I love those two other movies is because of the premise of “what would it be like if this happened for real” right? And a big part of exploring that premise is giving us humanity’s POV of the events, something both MoS and BvS do very well… but in JL it’s pretty much absent. Partly because of the nature of the story… this time around, the events of the story happen pretty much away from humanity’s world… sure we go to Themyscira and Atlantis, and even to Metropolis for a bit, but most of the story is disconnected from humans, and as far as the rest of the world is concerned, nothing happened that weekend, you know?
But more than that, while we got to see the weight of Superman’s absence with Martha & Lois, and a tiny little bit in the world in general, I don’t feel that was enough. I would’ve liked to see more of the world’s reaction… Maybe add a background TV discussing it here and there, maybe some newspaper headlines (they missed an opportunity with a paper in this movie), maybe have some fan posters in Barry’s hangout, or a youtube video of amateur footage in one of the many TVs he has… that kind of thing.
I really felt a huge part of what appealed to me in MoS and BvS was missing from this movie, and it’s kind of a shame, because this, more than anything else, is what really made it feel like a MCU movie. But on the other hand, I understand the why’s of it, and I guess it’s fine, JL is kind of spin-off in a sense, and I would expect Snyder to explore more of it in either the sequel or maybe a MoS sequel, which would be the most fitting place, I suppose… BUT since we know that’s probably not happening, it bums me out A LOT more that it would’ve, I suppose.
Anyways, that’s my review… yay?
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JL is kind of spin-off in a sense, and I would expect Snyder to explore more of it in either the sequel or maybe a MoS sequel, which would be the most fitting place, I suppose… BUT since we know that’s probably not happening, it bums me out A LOT more that it would’ve, I suppose.
I don’t know if we know that. Sarnoff’s interview was published just two days after the JLSC release and probably took place before it was released so no one knew the numbers it would do or the positive reaction either. It seems likely that powers above WB really “green lit” the Snyder Cut and I believe that it delivered what they expected it to. I can’t see anything that diminishes the demand for more DCEU/Snyder-verse material, and it would be bad business not to cater to that demand when they have a monopoly on the supply.
The primary obstacles are, first, the bridge between WB and Henry Cavill appears to be in ashes, and I’m not really sure Ben Affleck would have much interest in returning either. So, Aquaman, Flash and Wonder Woman and maybe Shazam/Black Adam will likely retain a lot of the Snyder set up but Batman and Superman, like Joker, will spin off into separate products. JL Cyborg seems like he would not be used in new movies but he still exists in the Doom Patrol/Teen Titans world.
Also, there is the possibility of an animated continuation of the Snyder-verse or in comics, too, but the whole point really is to bring subscribers to HBO Max, and it will be hard to ignore the opportunity if the fan base remains active.
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I don’t know man, for WW84 we got confirmation of a sequel… for JL we got a hit-piece… and so far no victory lap, from either WB or HBOmax, which is honestly the weirdest part… you’d think they’d want to brag about the numbers.
I don’t think the primary obstacles are the actors, tbh… Cavill will say yes because he really wants to play Superman. As for Ben affleck, you know for someone who’s said he’s done with the character, he came back once for the snydercut, and he’s coming back for the Falsh, sooo, he doesn’t seem as done as he says =P The one that could be problematic is Cyborg because of the Fisher thing, but even then, nothing they couldn’t fix behind the scenes.
I guess we’ll see, but everyone at WB seems really hostile towards anything Snyder-related, so that’s the actual obstacle.
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you’d think they’d want to brag about the numbers
What are the numbers?
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They haven’t released them, for HBOmax at least, but from other international sources, the numbers are good, very good even. But there hasn’t been a peep from WB/HBOmax which is weird, since this whole thing was made to boost HBOmax numbers. Thing is, it was licensed overseas in A LOT of services for a rental fee, so there should also be hard numbers for it, on top of however it did in HBOmax, but again… total radio silence so far.
Maybe they’re letting the rumour mill do their work for them because the actual numbers are less great than the buzz suggests. It’s what Netflix did for ages, and it worked for them.
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