This is a thread to talk about DC Comics.
DC Comics Thread
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It’s been announced today Tom Taylor is writing Nightwing. There is probably no character in comics I find less interesting than Nightwing but I also love Tom Taylor as a writer, he’s basically continuously made me buy into concepts I don’t really like. I don’t care for X-23 or DC heroes fighting each other but loved those books.
So yeah I’ll get it. Although it has been said DC are offering an ‘Unlimited’ version internationally in mid 2021 and that’ll probably be the venue. A subscription model for the big two comics is by far the best value. You basically pay roughly the price of two comics a month to read as much as you like. Things like $10 anniversary issues or crossover events take on a different perspective when it is all basically at a fixed cost.
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The rumours that DC’s page rate has dropped substantially must be true. Virtually every announcement is made up of C & D listers. I haven’t heard of any of these folks (or very few, at least). I love the idea of a Wally book, but I’m not going to buy a book by a totally unknown writer.
Maybe there will be a few surprises in the full March solicits, but as it stands right now, there aren’t many core DCU books post- Death Metal that I’m even interested in taking a look at.
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Is Bendis a C or D-lister?
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The new DC Justice League revealed on Instagram by Brian Bendis – gamesradar
Superman
Batman
Aquaman
HawkgirlHippolyta
Black Canary
Naomi (McDuffie)
Green Arrow – Leader
Black AdamY’know, if you’re going to have Bendis do Justice League, then this is the way to do it.
Having David Marquez on the art chores only sweetens the pot.
I am looking forward to this (admit it took all day to come to that conclusion).
Love the inclusion of Black Adam and Naomi (buy the TP or ask for it for X-mas!).Maybe there will be a few surprises in the full March solicits, but as it stands right now, there aren’t many core DCU books post- Death Metal that I’m even interested in taking a look at.
The only surprise at this point could come an hour before the solicits.
I’d love a high profile JSA announcement (and honestly think they need it) but don’t think any more is coming.
Now I’m curious when we’ll hear, or has that changed?Yeah, the other stuff was a little underwhelming, but maybe they’ll surprise us?
I too like the idea of a Wally book, or at least the respect giving the character the respect he deserves (as I really enjoyed that post-crisis version from the start and then the Waid run was awesome!).PKJ does say the right things for someone taking over both (!) Superman titles, but has to perform.
Honestly hope they are keeping a dialogue open with Waid (what he wants, when he wants to) and Hickman (New Gods/4th World, when he’s done with X-men).
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Speculation I saw from a retailer that the backup trend is the same trick DC pulled in increasing prices to $3.99. Add extra story pages so the price per page deal remains good then they’ll slowly disappear and the $4.99 cost remains.
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Yes. I agree. Pretty sure that’s what will happen eventually. Probably sooner rather than later.
Thinking about it, I may just use this as an excuse to jump ship to DC Universe Infinite.
We’ll see how I feel about it all in a couple of months time.
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Thinking about it, I may just use this as an excuse to jump ship to DC Universe Infinite.
Y’know, I’m pretty much right there. Was just going over the list and I’m definitely going to hack down to minimal levels.
Then what’s the deal with digital? 6 month delay? So March comics will available in September?
That’s right around the time of the International rollout of DC Universe Infinite, so maybe it’s time.And now that I’ve typed it, yeah, I’m done.
I should have realized I’ve been faking it for a while but thinking about it a better way to say it is I’ve been keeping secrets.
Always wanted to support, and then this year I didn’t want to kick them when they’re down. I’ve done my part for a long time.
HC’s and TP’s will be my main preference, but I’m not going to fight the switch to digital for the regular stuff.I’ll pick up my books Dec. 23rd, but the weekly experience is done.
Kind of feel sick right now, like I’m figuring out how to break up with a girlfriend.
__________________________________________________Oh, and to update on my query about Tablets in the other thread, thanks for all the responses.
Something my mother (and others) have said, once you start using a Tablet then you’ll probably really enjoy it and it won’t just be for comics (so no matter what it does have to be good and have good memory).
10″ is everybody’s “don’t go smaller” and I agree, and everyone says larger than that is where the price takes off.But then my mom (again) says to just go for the good 10″ when it’s on sale and figure out what I really want in a year or two (but worded differently like “you’ve made way worse mistakes than $150, multiple times that you think I don’t know about…”
She’s right, plus I know a few people with very little so if I upgrade in a year I can give away the first one and it goes to good use.Wow, my world just changed in one day.
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Then what’s the deal with digital? 6 month delay? So March comics will available in September?
DC are intending a 6 month delay when they start DCU Infinite – it’s meant to launch in the US in January and internationally in the summer.
Marvel Unlimited moved to 3 months delay recently.
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A Green Arrow led Justice League could be fun.
It’ll be especially interesting to see whether he makes it work with Batman also on the team; they kind of occupy the same spot. And with Batman usually being portrayed as this strategic mastermind and Ollie… well, Ollie, Green Arrow has got his work cut out for him. He’ll probably go the route of making him the emotional core of the team.
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the weekly experience is done.
Since I drastically reduced what I read, I pretty much go every 3 – 4 weeks now. Any more frequently and I’m wasting gas. There would be weeks with only one or two books in my box. Going about once a month nets me everything.
Marvel Unlimited moved to 3 months delay recently.
That’s interesting. I wonder if in a few years that window will get smaller, to one month. I don’t see it going day and date as that would potentially gut floppy sales.
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That’s interesting. I wonder if in a few years that window will get smaller, to one month. I don’t see it going day and date as that would potentially gut floppy sales.
I agree they will shy from day and date for a long time yet. The retailer summits seem to make it pretty clear the comics shops demand they don’t get undercut by digital in any way.
I’m not even sure how calculated the move to 3 months is, it is the official statement on the MU site now but it coincided with the Diamond delay due to Covid where there were no new comics for around 3 months.
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I’ll pick up my books Dec. 23rd, but the weekly experience is done.
Going about once a month nets me everything.
I am down to 1 or 2 DC as well but I have shifted to Indies. All the writers I like at DC all have good Indy books. Taylor has Seven Secrets and Seeley is writing Rai.
I am in the same boat as Todd though. every 2 to 3 weeks for me. All of my books seem to come out on the same week so it can be up to a month. But I know my Comic store staff well(it is a family place. a Guy and his grown sons) and I want to continue supporting them.
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My LCS is a four-minute walk from my office, so I’m still picking up my books weekly. My only change is that I now pre-order them so that I don’t have to deal with the usual Wednesday-morning crowd and instead can pick them up on Thursday or Friday, depending on which day I come to the office. The order is already prepaid on-line so I just pop in, show my ID, and leave with my package.
I miss just wandering around the store to see what else is new, but I’m not comfortable yet with browsing since, while every shopper is required to wear a mask, there are no protocols for temperature checks nor hand-sanitizer use. I don’t want to get sick because I checked out the latest Funko Pops.
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No Legion of Super-Heroes in DC’s March listings. Maybe it’s just taking the month off, but with Bendis leaving the Superman books maybe he’s leaving Legion too. And I can’t imagine any other writer want to continue this particular Legion incarnation, it feels too much like Bendis’s personal vision.
If it’s cancelled, it would be a mercy killing really.
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The rumours that DC’s page rate has dropped substantially must be true. Virtually every announcement is made up of C & D listers. I haven’t heard of any of these folks (or very few, at least). I love the idea of a Wally book, but I’m not going to buy a book by a totally unknown writer.
Maybe there will be a few surprises in the full March solicits, but as it stands right now, there aren’t many core DCU books post- Death Metal that I’m even interested in taking a look at.
Hey Vik
Just popped in for a browse of a few threads to see what’s happening.
I saw this and it prompted me to post, and sorry my first post in quite a long time is a negative one…….but that’s on DC….
I wasn’t aware there were rumours about DC lowering their page rates, but it did seem to me that it must be happening because the raft of new titles announced have so many unknown, new and mediocre names attached on the writing side.
They must still be paying the going rate for artists because they don’t seem to be as impacted there. Loads of good artists still involved. It looks like the new regime are only interested in the IP at this stage, that they think the characters sell the books.
This is a jump off point for me also. I’ll continue to pick up Tynion IVs batman in hardcover and JLD in trade. I might pick up Swamp Thing as a like Ram V.
Elsewhere it’s time to vote with my wallet. I think DC are making a huge mistake and if they think people are going to pay 3.99-4.99 to read sup par comics or try outs for people new to comics then I think they are in for a shock. Or maybe it’s a deliberate move and they don’t care any more. I think we will see more people reading their books illegally, if at all, and the sales will be in the shitter very quickly.
This is the least exciting relaunch I’ve seen at DC. The concepts are boring and the creative teams won’t shift books.
It will be DC infinite for me also. Maybe that’s what they want ultimately, to shift readers from buying floppies to a subscription model.
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It will be DC infinite for me also. Maybe that’s what they want ultimately, to shift readers from buying floppies to a subscription model.
Wasn’t that the rumor (or at least supposition) that DC was working to shift over to digital?
As I’ve said before, the people at my LCS really HATE DC. Shitty customer support, changing terms, and just putting out mediocre product have negatively impacted their desire to support the company. My LCS has been steering readers to indie books and away from DC.
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I looked at the solicitations and wow – that is a lot of people I’ve never heard of. Maybe some of them will end up being great but I’ll hold out for reviews and buzz on any books.
I stopped buying DC monthly when they got rid of the price drop on Comixology. I now just wait with anything that takes my interest and pick it up in a sale, there’s usually one every month or so. I’ll switch to the infinite thing when it becomes available here, I get a lot of value out of Marvel Unlimited with both new and older books on there.
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Hey Chris! Good to see you too, matey. Have missed you round here. Despite the best efforts of the usual suspects, there’s not enough people talking about comics regularly for my liking. It goes quiet for days on end at times. Be good to get a few more voices in the mix.
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the usual suspects
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Talking of DC are these recent trades any good?
Question OHC by Lemire and Cowan
Lois Lane – Enemy of the People by Rucka and Perkins
Batman Knight Out HC – Dixon
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(If anyone feels left out of my bad meme-juju, I’m sorry. That one is on me. I just took the names of the most frequent posters I could think of – Not the same thing as the most frequent posters.)
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(If anyone feels left out of my bad meme-juju, I’m sorry. That one is on me. I just took the names of the most frequent posters I could think of – Not the same thing as the most frequent posters.)
I’m obviously delighted to be Kevin Spacey.
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Talking of DC are these recent trades any good?
Question OHC by Lemire and Cowan
Lois Lane – Enemy of the People by Rucka and Perkins
Batman Knight Out HC – Dixon
The Question series is very good and well worth a read.
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I’m obviously delighted to be Kevin Spacey.
Huh? Who’s that? Is that a pseudonym for Christopher Plummer?
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Talking of DC are these recent trades any good?
Question OHC by Lemire and Cowan
Lois Lane – Enemy of the People by Rucka and Perkins
Batman Knight Out HC – Dixon
The Question was excellent.
tonally it is close to the O’Neill & Cowan series, so that was nice also.
i stopped reading the Lois Lane series around halfway through. The art was good but I lost interest in the story
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Hey Chris! Good to see you too, matey. Have missed you round here. Despite the best efforts of the usual suspects, there’s not enough people talking about comics regularly for my liking. It goes quiet for days on end at times. Be good to get a few more voices in the mix.
Thanks Vik.
I took a bit of a break for a few reasons. I do miss the comics chat though. I think I spent to much time thinking critically about why I was watching and reading though, almost thinking about what I was going to say about something as I was reading it, rather than being in the moment and enjoying it.
Being off the forum did leave a void though, I don’t really have another full outlet for regular comics chat, other than 1 or 2 friends on whatsapp who keep up with comics still.
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Lois Lane – Enemy of the People by Rucka and Perkins
Started strong. Disappeared up its own arse by the end. Surprisingly connected into DCU continuity bollocks for a Rucka book.
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I do miss the comics chat though. I think I spent to much time thinking critically about why I was watching and reading though, almost thinking about what I was going to say about something as I was reading it, rather than being in the moment and enjoying it.
I do recognise that experience although probably more with TV and movies. I found with certain shows I enjoyed them and then found it diminished by others who didn’t picking holes in them in discussion later. The finding myself going into the next episode with my justifications ready and thinking about it all far too much.
I changed my mindset to it really. I rarely re-watch anything much so if I am enjoying something or not in the moment then that’s all that really counts. That was my reaction to that piece of entertainment and always will be and anything else is interesting but just a different experience.
I find it less with comics here to be honest, probably because they aren’t that cheap any more people tend to be evangelical about books they like and if something sucks it gets quickly dumped. The exception being Meadows with his Legion completist mindset but I find those reviews quite funny as all he likes in the franchise is desecrated before his eyes. 😂
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I do recognise that experience although probably more with TV and movies. I found with certain shows I enjoyed them and then found it diminished by others who didn’t picking holes in them in discussion later.
Yeah, exactly that. Hence why I won’t be going anywhere near the cess-pit that is the Mandalorian thread
Dipped my toes into that for a look a couple weeks ago and that was plenty.
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Dipped my toes into that for a look a couple weeks ago and that was plenty.
Maybe it’s become a lot more nuanced since the last episode?
Spoiler alert:
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quite funny as all he likes in the franchise is desecrated before his eyes
Merry Christmas to you too Gar
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DCU continuity bollocks
I’m going to remember you referred to them as bollocks for future reviews.
DCU continuity means a lot to me, but good comics mean more.
It’s like the Sherlock TV series. Started great, but when the stories became about Sherlock himself more than the case he was working on it lost me.
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I do recognise that experience although probably more with TV and movies. I found with certain shows I enjoyed them and then found it diminished by others who didn’t picking holes in them in discussion later.
Yeah, exactly that. Hence why I won’t be going anywhere near the cess-pit that is the Mandalorian thread
Dipped my toes into that for a look a couple weeks ago and that was plenty.
Wise choice.
In contrast, I can confirm the current incarnation of the Trades Thread is as dangerously positive, for your finances, as ever. Trades have gotten a bit harder to acquire though, so reducing the danger and temptation.
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I think that was sarcasm 😉
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so instead of sidetracking the new comics thread, I cut & pasted it here before posting
Death Metal – The Secret Origin special is basically the redemption of Superboy- Prime.
So as I said earlier, I’m finished with single issue comics, and told them yesterday.
(I’ll go back in 3 weeks to pick up DM #7 and a couple other things, plus some long boxes).
They understood, and said (hinted) some of the “DC” people are wavering, more than one pointed out to them page #8 from that issue;“Which leads me to now.
They call me Superboy-Prime.
Some lame Batman Wannabe is doing what a bunch of other villains have already tried to do for some reason… ‘Remake the entire multiverse in their vision.’
I feel like I’ve already read this story, but I understood it better.
Everything in the universe is turned upside-down and jumbled like a Greatest and Worst hits Album.
I can’t figure what’s going on.
And the worst part about it all is… I don’t care anymore.”I was shown that and it was almost like a slap in the face how stupid I’ve been.
Can’t believe they would be that crass, so probably a META attempt to say “things are going to get better…”
Yet I took it as a message Snyder & Johns sneakily slipped through; “Jump ship, we all are…”
Should have known when the Johns & Frank creator-owned series was announced coming from Image.Yeah, I’m a little emotional. Of course I want them to produce good stories.
I would never turn that down.
Just won’t be in this form anymore (singles, floppies, physical).Just so hard to believe the last time I was wavering they came back with Rebirth and I honestly believed we’d never get that low again.
Now I just know I’m done.Ummm, sorry. Almost wish their was an option to time-delay this post.
Don’t want to take it back, but I’m getting negative on X-mas Eve (and could’ve had more).
Sorry again.But the best to you and yours!
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Ummm, sorry. Almost wish their was an option to time-delay this post.
Don’t want to take it back, but I’m getting negative on X-mas Eve (and could’ve had more).
Sorry again.But the best to you and yours!
It’s okay and all good. You need speak your truth. Get the toxins out so you can enjoy Christmas. Have a great holiday!
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Yesterday was a bad holiday for a lot of people especially single people. Being alone on Christmas Sucks! but it is something we have been forced into by circumstances(mostly idiot induced circumstances).
As far as DC goes, My opinion is, if you remember when they had those mass firings , a lot of good people let go and because of the time it takes to get a book to market we are now seeing the reaction. I like Tynion and Taylor and hoped they would be the new architects of DC but March’s solicitations don’t show me that.
I can’t believe they gave the Justice League to Bendis. A thought that ran through my head is lets make JL inferior so when Zack Synder’s movie comes out it won’t look as bad if the comics sucks as well. After I wrote my next thought it turned out way too dark. suffice to say it was about more actively discouraging their existing audience and attracting a new one.
Of course I want them to produce good stories.
so do I but even if they do I believe they will not be directed towards my tastes.
DC used to be the company that was proud of their heritage. I believe now they are actively trying to cut themselves off from that heritage.
p.s. Cheer up Sean, Hockey will be back soon!
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The lack of confidence in DC is not just here. The manager at my LCS said subscribers are dropping a lot of DC titles.
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LCS should start to drop DC or at least stop promoting them(take down posters and other advertising).If someone coming in looking for something direct them to the Back Issues and some quality storylines.
DC makes it difficult to order and deliver. They are losing talent left and right. and they put fringe creators on major books. Bendis and King are those fringe creators ,imo. They should be working for Independent publishers. That way they can appeal to their core audiences(see I can acknowledge people do like them) without disrupting the main DC universe(Right, @DavidM). I know elseworlds and all that crap but HiC was in universe and now it seems DC is bending over backwards to remedy it. Writers have told how many stories trying to redeem Wally? Poison Ivy is being resurrected in Batman and Harley Quinn. They brought Roy back as a Zombie. WTF. King should have been let go when Didio was.
the last time I was wavering they came back with Rebirth
I believe they fu*&ed over Rebirth & that is the reason why Johns is disillusioned.
the more Valiant I read the more I like their universe. I wish they would publish more but I don’t want them to over extend and have $ problems.
Here’s a hot take (as they say on sports tv). DC will have stopped publishing by this time next year. Either they will be digital only or WB will have closed them down.
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Here’s a hot take (as they say on sports tv). DC will have stopped publishing by this time next year. Either they will be digital only or WB will have closed them down.
Under normal circumstances, I would completely disagree with you. But these are not normal circumstances. After the move with the movie releases on HBO MAX, I think all bets are off.
I had an IM conversation with the manager at my LCS this afternoon. I mentioned about people moving to DC’s new digital comics service where they can read old and new comics. She didn’t think people would make the shift. Older fans who buy the hard copies won’t go and new generation of speculators (age range mid 20s to mid 40s) aren’t because you can’t speculate on digital.
My counterpoint was that I look at the members at the board who I would classify as “older”. They like the idea of reading older books that would cost a fortune to buy as back issues and may not exist as trades. That’s very enticing. They are borderline on the upcoming stuff so instead of wasting money on singles they may not like, it’s easier to wait a few months to sample it. If they do like it, this group will pick it up in trades. It’s a low risk, low cost way to try new books and an affordable way to read old books.
If and when they do make the full transition to digital, I would expect them to halve the amount of new product currently being produced. (Which is already down by a third due to recent cuts.) They’ll need to have new content as old stuff won’t keep people coming back. I could see the new stuff being released in trades as an additional revenue stream.
Something feels very different about DC right now and I think things will continue on the current downward slope.
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the more Valiant I read the more I like their universe. I wish they would publish more but I don’t want them to over extend and have $ problems.
I think the best thing Valiant have done is launch slowly and keep their line pretty lean. Launching a dozen titles and over-expansion to try and mimic Marvel and DC killed off pretty much every other superhero publisher.
On DC stopping comics, it’s dwarfed by the rest of the revenue in their organisation but comics still make a good amount of money. If Warners decide to drop it I’d see them licensing it out, IDW would probably be ready and willing.
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I feel like Warner’s continuing to publish comics is also a prestige thing. Closing DC Comics would be like admitting their characters aren’t interesting enough to sustain readers, and that would undermine efforts to launch movies about non-Justice League characters. Lowering their rates and pushing out top shelf talent is a way to save money and keep publishing comics so they don’t lose face in comparison to Disney/Marvel.
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There’s an argument they still need the new IP coming in too. If you look at Marvel a lot of what they are releasing in TV and Movies now is very recent. Ms Marvel and Ironheart, the Hawkeye and Wandavision shows are definitely taking inspiration from the Fraction and King runs, Thor 4 is using Gorr the God Butcher and Jane Foster Thor.
If they had just ditched the comics side when Iron Man was a big hit in 2008 they’d have none of that material to adapt.
I suspect with DC it’s actually more likely a big suit has come in and said carry on but your budget is slashed, the number of editors leaving pretty much says that. Their hope then is that this new talent none of us have really heard of before could actually be good or that enough readers just go with the characters whatever happens. The latter point I always think is partially true, Batman does sell whoever you put on it but it sells a lot more when you have Snyder and Capullo doing it.
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Yeah that’s true. It must be easier to sell an idea like Ms. Marvel or Vision in the burbs when you can point to proof that it appeals to a modern audience. Older comics must look pretty hokey to the suits.
In that respect DC pushing out their best writers is probably shortsighted.
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Mediocre, Ben. Mediocre. Some nice moments throughout, but interspersed with lots of really dull and pointless dreck.
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He screwed it up with an everything and the kitchen sink approach. There were something like a hundred main characters, and a thousand guest stars. The plots zoomed along, apart from the the issues where they ground to a halt. He actually had a pretty good grasp on the core cast of Tim, Connor and Bart, but struggled with most of the others; the end result being they came off much the worse for wear. The art was nice. And, he gets bonus points for bringing Connor back. But he loses those points for Tim Drake’s new code name of Drake. A name so insane they reverted to Robin literally a handful of issues later.
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I do think Bendis overstretches himself. A lot of his books start off very strong but seem to lose focus as they go on.
I truly admire what he does as I think it’s the most underrated aspect of writing comics. I think I could write an issue as well as an average Bendis book, no way in hell I could do as many as he does, I’d just run out of plots. I’d put forward the theory that he actually writes more story per year than any other writer in any form.
He may be better off though going to a tighter focus.
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I’ve said this many times before but I think Bendis would be well suited for taking a high-level editorial role at this point, and taking a step back from writing (or at least writing so much).
He has lots of good ideas and a solid handle on characters and story, but the final execution is often a bit lacking. He’s the kind of writer whose stories always sound much better in interviews than they end up being on the page.
But he could be great in a role where he was able to provide other creators with guidance and suggestions but not be responsible for the final execution.
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so instead of sidetracking the new comics thread, I cut & pasted it here before posting
Death Metal – The Secret Origin special is basically the redemption of Superboy- Prime.
So as I said earlier, I’m finished with single issue comics, and told them yesterday.
(I’ll go back in 3 weeks to pick up DM #7 and a couple other things, plus some long boxes).
They understood, and said (hinted) some of the “DC” people are wavering, more than one pointed out to them page #8 from that issue;“Which leads me to now.
They call me Superboy-Prime.
Some lame Batman Wannabe is doing what a bunch of other villains have already tried to do for some reason… ‘Remake the entire multiverse in their vision.’
I feel like I’ve already read this story, but I understood it better.
Everything in the universe is turned upside-down and jumbled like a Greatest and Worst hits Album.
I can’t figure what’s going on.
And the worst part about it all is… I don’t care anymore.”I was shown that and it was almost like a slap in the face how stupid I’ve been.
Can’t believe they would be that crass, so probably a META attempt to say “things are going to get better…”
Yet I took it as a message Snyder & Johns sneakily slipped through; “Jump ship, we all are…”
Should have known when the Johns & Frank creator-owned series was announced coming from Image.Yeah, I’m a little emotional. Of course I want them to produce good stories.
I would never turn that down.
Just won’t be in this form anymore (singles, floppies, physical).Just so hard to believe the last time I was wavering they came back with Rebirth and I honestly believed we’d never get that low again.
Now I just know I’m done.Ummm, sorry. Almost wish their was an option to time-delay this post.
Don’t want to take it back, but I’m getting negative on X-mas Eve (and could’ve had more).
Sorry again.But the best to you and yours!
I’m in the same boat Sean, so you know you are not alone.
I’m about to go into the DC solicits for March this morning, to start my pre-order for January Previews. I do this knowing that there’s going to be a lot less on it, if anything, compared to every month for the last 10 or so years I’ve been pre-ordering my books using previews.
ive barely bought a marvel comic this year, other than punisher and collections of immortal hulk.
DC looks to be heading the same way. Which saddens me greatly.
its ironic because I’ve had a blast the past 6 months reading things like Death Metal.
https://www.dccomics.com/comics/dc-connect-2020/dc-connect-8
ill report back on what I’m picking up but i don’t think it bodes well. My bank account is the only winner.
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Good to see you back, Chris!!
Thanks Will!!
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Talking if team books and Bendis – How did Young Justice work out?
Pretty much as Vik says.
I enjoyed the first few issues then it just went all Bendis. I gave up. After a promising start to a few series I found all of Bendis stuff to be pretty dire. I won’t read another book of his. Burned too many times.
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ive barely bought a marvel comic this year, other than punisher and collections of immortal hulk. DC looks to be heading the same way. Which saddens me greatly.
My DC diet in the last couple of years has mainly been the Black Label stuff with the top creators. I don’t know if it’s just me but it seems like there are far fewer of those books lined up at the moment – in fact I don’t known of any upcoming series that I’m excited about.
Presumably they’re expensive to make as they’re top-tier creators, but they also have resulted in some excellent stories with evergreen potential, so if they’re cutting them for cost reasons it seems a bit short-term and short-sighted.
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So it’s not all doom and gloom, I read a wonderful little DC series from 1993, written by John Wagner with art from Dave Johnson.
This is the first time I read Chain Gang War since it came out. I enjoyed it back then and it holds up brilliantly today. With a script that respects the intelligence of the audience and raises questions that are still topical today. The layouts from Johnson give an indication of the cover artist he goes on to be, but the storytelling is also superb. I spent a lot of time admiring the art on the book and he feels ahead of his time for that era.
Sadly the book ended after 12 issues, but the strength of the editor (Pete Thomasi) and the writer, meant that it got well wrapped up regardless, and reads just fine as a 12 issue series.
Its one of those unfortunate things we see now and again in comics, where a book doesn’t find the audience it deserves but the audience it did find were very passionate. Reading the letters pages is almost as much fun as reading the comic itself.
So perhaps this is a timely reminder that even if DC atop producing books I/we are excited to read, there is a wealth of material worth searching out, whether that be on the app or on eBay.
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ive barely bought a marvel comic this year, other than punisher and collections of immortal hulk. DC looks to be heading the same way. Which saddens me greatly.
My DC diet in the last couple of years has mainly been the Black Label stuff with the top creators. I don’t know if it’s just me but it seems like there are far fewer of those books lined up at the moment – in fact I don’t known of any upcoming series that I’m excited about.
Presumably they’re expensive to make as they’re top-tier creators, but they also have resulted in some excellent stories with evergreen potential, so if they’re cutting them for cost reasons it seems a bit short-term and short-sighted.
Yeah, absolutely. And resulted of course in Dead Earth which you put me into and is absolutely one of the best books published this year and should be WW’s DKR for decades to come.
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I just went through the DC Connect
infinity frontier 0 (a one shot)
swamp thing 1 (a 10 issue series)
sweet tooth the return 5 (wraps up next month)
Grim.
ill continue to pick up green lantern & batman in hardcover. Maybe The Joker in trade as it’s Tynion IV.
Superb DC. Seriously takes some doing. And I’m a mug for a relaunch. So to fail to grab some sucker like me at all is a total clusterfuck.
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It’s funny. I think I mentioned here before that one of the reasons I have been enjoying Death Metal so much is that it feels like a “season finale”. It’s bringing together so many different plot threads and weaving them together into one bombastic climax. It’s a lot of crazy fun.
What I didn’t expect though is that this would actually end up being my jumping off point.
I have zero interest in “Future State”, and at best only mild interest in what’s being published in March. I’m planning to buy less in the first quarter of 2021 than I usually buy in one month.
If it wasn’t for the continuing Black Label books (American Vampire, Rorschach, and Batman/ Catwoman) I wouldn’t be buying another DC book until Tynion & Jiminez’ Batman returns in March. And, I’m really torn on that one too. I want to switch to reading it in TPB, if I’m honest, but I don’t think I can wait for DC’s crazy publishing schedule to finally print that in 2022 sometime!
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Always been interested in Chain Gang War, but have never read it. Maybe I’ll hunt that down too. Wasn’t that one of DC’s rare “creator participation” books like Bloodhound, Sovereign Seven, or Fallen Angel? Published as a DCU title, but effectively jointly owned by the creator. I’ve said it before, Tomasi was a great editor too.
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I’ve said this many times before but I think Bendis would be well suited for taking a high-level editorial role at this point, and taking a step back from writing (or at least writing so much).
He has lots of good ideas and a solid handle on characters and story, but the final execution is often a bit lacking. He’s the kind of writer whose stories always sound much better in interviews than they end up being on the page.
But he could be great in a role where he was able to provide other creators with guidance and suggestions but not be responsible for the final execution.
When Bendis is on his game and focused, he is phenomenal. Unfortunately that has become a rare occurrence in the last decade plus. The first run of Powers, when it was published by Image, is probably his magnum opus. When he moved it over to Marvel, it lost its way. He got so busy with his Marvel work, his creator-owned work suffered. The delays killed momentum and toward the end, it felt phoned in.
I think he takes on too much and when he does a lot of work, the overall quality suffers.
I think if he wrote a maximum of 3 titles, you would see some brilliant work.
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Based on WW84, WB does not care about DC Comics. That movie cherry picked Max and Cheetah.
I think it’s a big leap to think any of that matters. I mean Marvel did a movie where Captain America wore a motorcycle helmet. The launch of the Marvel movie era with Feige as an assistant had a Rogue completely unrecognisable from the comics. Movies cherry pick, they don’t have much to do with what sells in periodical comics.
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They like the idea of reading older books that would cost a fortune to buy as back issues
Is there still a big market for Back issues? I was thinking maybe cut the prices on them when LCS start pushing ppl towards them.
Through IM, I asked the manager at my LCS about back issues.
Her responses:
it depends on the back issues, honestly. No one’s fucking busting down my door for WILDCATS
but like, back issues of star wars and turtles and spidey and stuff like that are steady
folks looking to fill holes in their collections or read the older stuff they like more than newer titles
Depends on the back issues again as to what age group, but mostly dudes between 20 and 40.
And for us back issues are good sales, but lots of shops don’t stock stuff older than a year.
I think it is important to note that for many shops, back issue inventory is fairly limited. Like she said, they don’t stock stuff older than a year. If they do have older ones, they are probably high value key issues and not some random issue of Captain America from the early 1980s with a price of $2.
If the stores in your city don’t have a large inventory to select from, your option then is to order from an online source like Mile High Comics or EBay. You may find what you are looking for but with postage, you may be overpaying. And the story may not be that good.
Now if you had access to thousands of comics that span decades for $70 a year, that may be very enticing and worth the money. You can sample books and if you don’t like them, you just move on. You haven’t wasted any money and the book that you’ll never read again isn’t taking up space in your home. You will also have access to newer books.
The library model works great for Marvel and DC. It gets more problematic with smaller publishers who just don’t have the back catalogue to make a viable operation. (I could see a bunch of smaller companies banding together but it may not have enough product people actually want to read.) Creator-owned books may be a non-starter due to rights and fair compensation issues.
As evidenced here, I think people would like to read older works but price and availability hamper that. The easier you make the point of entry, they more likely you will have people use it.
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I get your points on the movie but I do think they are largely unconnected. Film adaptations rarely 100% adapt the material and operate more on an ‘inspired by’ basis. Mysterio’s origin in the last Spider-Man is different to the comics, Hela is not Thor’s sister, Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne are not old and hid their superhero activities for 30 years.
I don’t think it’s contempt for the material but rather how they felt the ideas fit into their story for a single movie. Those choices can be bad and annoying (and the annoyance increases by how much the original material means to you) but I don’t think it’s going to give us any clues as to how Warners are going to approach their publishing business.
They can still view the comics as an IP farm of ideas they can use. In the same allegory as my Marvel one if Warners stopped comics when Superman was a hit in 1978 there’s no Cyborg and Raven in Teen Titans and JLA, no Harley Quinn, no Bane, no Constantine, Lucifer, Sandman and Naomi to adapt for TV.
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Just read that DC are including Vertigo books in their Infinite offering (and therefore I’d assume Black Label).
Nice to hear because Marvel/Disney like to keep Marvel Unlimited pretty all ages and don’t add any of the MAX books.
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Just read that DC are including Vertigo books in their Infinite offering (and therefore I’d assume Black Label).
DC Infinite just got more appealing.
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the buying pattern of the audience it does have is so twisted by character loyalty and obsession with collecting that it’s not reflective of a mainstream movie audience
What Mr Meadows has done is stumble smack-bam-boom right on to why the DC Cinematic Universe is in shambles.
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There’s an argument they still need the new IP coming in too. If you look at Marvel a lot of what they are releasing in TV and Movies now is very recent. Ms Marvel and Ironheart, the Hawkeye and Wandavision shows are definitely taking inspiration from the Fraction and King runs, Thor 4 is using Gorr the God Butcher and Jane Foster Thor.
But why not just throw a bunch of money at Tom King and say “Write us a hit movie treatment for (e.g.) Vibe”? Why waste time and money writing and drawing a comic first?
And I don’t believe the answer is “To try it out on the audience before you make the movie”, because comics don’t have a big enough audience, and the buying pattern of the audience it does have is so twisted by character loyalty and obsession with collecting that it’s not reflective of a mainstream movie audience.
The hits speak to a wider audience beyond the dedicated fanboy though. Ms. Marvel, Jane Foster Thor, Miles Morales, etc all brought in new or casual readers who don’t know or care about obscure continuity.
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And I don’t believe the answer is “To try it out on the audience before you make the movie”, because comics don’t have a big enough audience, and the buying pattern of the audience it does have is so twisted by character loyalty and obsession with collecting that it’s not reflective of a mainstream movie audience.
Comics actually have as big or a bigger audience than some novels that are adapted.
Regardless of that though it’s also a self-sustaining ideas machine. We don’t have transparency on DC much but despite the natural pessimism of comics fans Marvel publishing is an entity that returns annual profits in the millions, small potatoes compared to the money they make from movies and merch but it makes money. By my educated estimates upwards of $50m in 2019.
So if you put out a lot of comics for essentially no cost, unlike if you hire 40 writers to do spec scripts, you also get to see what of that material resonate and keeps selling. The thing with King’s Vision mini or Snyder’s Court of Owls concepts is they keep selling in the secondary market while hundreds of other concepts are forgotten so you use those ones. It’s a deeper proof of concept than just that weeks sales in comics shops.
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As has been said before, the comic book divisions are basically IP generators and R&D for those ideas. It’s also where you generate copyrights for the IP. The comics literally pay for themselves. They’re relatively low cost and profitable. They then go on to generate revenue for multiple other divisions. They can get audience feedback on those characters and concepts, for all intents and purposes, instantly. For many companies in other fields, R&D is a huge money pit that can take years to just break even, if it ever does. Companies would kill for that.
AT&T/WB has that with DC. Yeah, they’ve cut costs through layoffs and reduced page rates but they still have that relatively low cost source of IP that can be used for a diverse group of revenue streams. Even if they migrate completely from paper to digital, they still have it.
As to specific stories being adapted, all stories, regardless of source, are changed when adapted to other media. Some aspects change, others don’t. It’s the nature of the beast. It’s just a source to work from.
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They can get audience feedback on those characters and concepts, for all intents and purposes, instantly.
To a degree that’s true but I think more important is the response over a longer period. As David says the monthly comics market can be a little swayed by habit, they’ll buy a Batman book however good or bad it is, or prone to nonsense like everyone going nuts over Jackpot or the Joker’s daughter before they’ve even appeared.
What the comics market really does is churn out a high volume of material cheaply and some will stick in the consciousness, get into books of the year lists, win Eisners, consistent trade sales etc. If you look at Marvel’s recent slate that’s the material they are drawing from – Aaron/Ribic Thor, Fraction/Aja Hawkey, Wilson/Alphona Ms Marvel, King/Walta Vision etc
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Flicking through some of the DC Future State solicits and it looks like the regular covers don’t have creator names and credits on them at all (many of the variants do, though).
Is this a mistake or a policy shift for DC? Either way it feels like a step backwards.
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a policy shift for DC
This implies that DC has a consciously developed policy. I find that very hard to believe.
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Covers in solicits are quite often not the final drafts and they could have submitted a shot before they added credits. I googled some for October’s books, some had the full trade dress including creator names, some don’t, some are just a picture without even a book title logo.
We’ll have to see when they come out if they have actually taken names off the covers. For all the joking it would be quite a dramatic change as DC were to the fore there doing it well over a decade before Marvel did.
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The ones I’m talking about have full title and trade dress, and even a UPC barcode box, but no creator names.
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Not common in the ones I am looking back at but it does happen. October Solicitation for Hellblazer:
Comixology actual issue cover (which omits the barcode for obvious reasons):
There are 2 or 3 like that in the sample I am looking at but not many. So I guess we’ll still have to wait until the issues finally arrive but it is suspicious when they seem to have gone down a route of a lot of no-name writers and rumoured page rate cuts. It’ll be a sad day if they have decided their path is to say characters are all that matters and not the material and one I think will fail if they are doing that.
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