This is a thread to talk about DC Comics.
DC Comics Thread
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It may be viewed through a glass that periodical print is under pressure everywhere. Established magazines have been cancelled in the last couple of months, newspaper circulations are falling rapidly and laying off journalists at a much bigger rate than this story.
Interestingly GOSH comics in London actually voluntarily pre-empted all of this before Covid hit. After FP the second most popular store in the capital and they stopped stocking monthly comics. It was just too much hard work to be bothered with. They remain open despite cutting the whole thing off.
Comics will never die. Monthly print comics? Most probably.
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You really get the sense that the writing is on the wall for the death of physical media. CDs are all but extinct. Books are transitioning to Kindle. Newspapers and magazines are obsolete with the internet. Streaming is killing off DVD and blu-ray.
We can deny it all we want, but just look at how the physical media sections of stores are shrinking. Barnes & Noble, Bookseller, now has more floorspace dedicated to things that aren’t books.
And we’re now raising a generation who has grown up doing everything on tablets and phones. And as real estate and rent keeps increasing, people have less actual space in their homes to store large collections of stuff.
I am unsure how well comics will thrive under digital. Whether we want to admit it or not, a large component of comic book reading/collecting is the idea that these are limited edition collectibles. If comics do switch over to digital, I doubt they will be able to keep the pricing structure in place, as I believe people will be reluctant to spend $3.99 per issue on things that have no scarcity or potential to be resold at a profit. They will need to either cut the price, or move to an AYCE subscription model like Netflix or Spotify. But even with the costs in involved in physical media removed from the equation — printing, distribution, shipping, warehousing — writers, artists, and editors still need to be paid, and I’m not sure if they can do that if these things cost less than a dollar.
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You really get the sense that the writing is on the wall for the death of physical media. CDs are all but extinct.
I don’t know that it’s going to die, just change. My hometown high street is 95% charity shops, coffee shops, barbers and pubs. There hasn’t been anywhere to buy music, DVDs or video games other than the mini Tesco for years. And despite all that, someone’s just opened up a new vinyl record store.
Admittedly, that’s no guarantee it won’t collapse within months (even without Covid) but clearly they think there’s a market. Switching to trades won’t necessarily kill off print or LCSes.
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And despite all that, someone’s just opened up a new vinyl record store. Admittedly, that’s no guarantee it won’t collapse within months (even without Covid) but clearly they think there’s a market. Switching to trades won’t necessarily kill off print or LCSes.
Vinyl records are sort of an outlier; it’s mostly a collectors’ niche, but the revenue from vinyl is just below that of CDs. Though CDs sell about twice as many pieces as records, new records cost about twice as much as new CDs.
With new records selling at $25-$35 (or more) a piece, it’s aimed at at least somewhat affluent collectors and not the general public. It’s probably indicative of what will happen with other physical media like books and blu-rays — content will move over to digital distribution, while physical books and movies still exist as a premium collectors niche. We’re already seeing this happen now with boutique DVD/Blu-ray labels like Shout/Scream Factory and Arrow releasing premium-priced collectors editions of popular and cult films.
Comic books might do something similar, where monthlies go exclusively digital, and are later collected into premium formats with higher prices and smaller print-runs, like hardcovers and Absolute Editions, for physical sales.
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If comics do switch over to digital, I doubt they will be able to keep the pricing structure in place, as I believe people will be reluctant to spend $3.99 per issue on things that have no scarcity or potential to be resold at a profit.
They technically don’t need to.
5 Years or so back I listened to an interview with Jonathan Hickman and he was hugely enthused and under the belief that digital would knock the price of comics down dramatically.
Print comics cost: 50% retailer, 10% distributor, 10% printer. So a $4 comic actually delivers you back $1.
Digital comics: 70% publisher, 30% distributor. So a $4 comic actually delivers you back $3.
He admitted that didn’t take into account the LCS that couldn’t be challenged on price short term because they prop everything up. So they’ve artificially kept the digital price as equal to the LCS or in fact higher as many give a discount if you order in advance. DC have compounded that repeatedly after retailer talks, in 2011 they dropped the digital price in half after 30 days, they then changed that to 60 days and then with ‘Rebirth’ to no drop outside of sales. So they’ve actively discouraged digital over print.
Digital sales have apparently stuck at an average of 30% because some fans are wedded to print but also Comixology after selling to Amazon have done nothing to push the format. Their interface hasn’t changed in 9 years.
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I’m curious what is going to happen to the DC Universe. News from the last few months implied a major change.
King said he was told that he HAD to kill Alfred
Snyder is wrapping up his opus with Death Metal and has said he is leaving superheroes after it.
The Joker War will radically change Batman and Gotham
Josh Williamson has said he is leaving Flash but he is going to make major changes before he leaves
Then the editors for the most if not all of these books have been fired.
Who will be the main architect of the DC Universe now? Is there a possibility that there will be no more coherent universe after all the changes. will there be a new reboot? Could each book be written without consequences of other books? Will Bendis do Metropolis and Tynion do Gotham, etc etc down the line?
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I wouldn’t be surprised if right now there’s no masterplan.
that’s my take too. and I capitalized HAD just to emphasize it was not his idea.
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I know but I was just looking at the difference between ‘what the hell just kill him’ in response to King’s idea and an editor coming in asking for a death scene for Alfred. The latter suggests a specific story plan that needed Alfred dead, the former is more a disregard for what happens (maybe due to a reboot of some kind in the plans).
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I wouldn’t be surprised if right now there’s no masterplan.
Why change the habit of a lifetime?
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Bends named new chief creative officer at DC.
http://www.cbr.com/news/idgaf/bendis-replaces-geoff-johns.html
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Wow, over 20 years on the internet and that’s the first time that’s ever happened to me.
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Wow, over 20 years on the internet and that’s the first time that’s ever happened to me.
You’re welcome!
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i think the idgaf kinda gave it away.
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Following the cancellations of Batgirl, Batman and The Outsiders, and Justice League Odyssey in October, more DC titles are scheduled to get the ax in November. DC’s just-released November solicitations reveal that Teen Titans, Young Justice, Suicide Squad, Hawkman, and John Constantine: Hellblazer are all ending in November – with a cryptic message about Aquaman that makes the title’s fate questionable. The Batman’s Grave and Metal Men limited series will also reach their planned end in November.
https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-cancels-teen-titans-young-justice-suicide-squad-hawkman-and-more/
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I can see things changing considerably in the monthly comics market.
One aspect of the pandemic and comics that hasn’t really been talked about much – because I guess once the industry acknlowedges it, it recognises the elephant in the room – is the extent to which people’s buying is based on habit.
With that habit having been forcibly broken for several months, I think there’s a good chance that the spell has been broken for a lot of buyers and they’re realising they can live without, especially at a time when the economy is tanking.
DC also seemed to shoot themselves in the foot with the recent distribution debacle, which I’m sure hasn’t helped.
I think the market has been due a shake-up for a while, and I wonder whether the apparent move towards fewer physical monthlies and a shift in favour of trades/OGNs is something that’s been inevitable but has just been accelerated by current circumstances.
It may ultimately result in a better model, we’ll see – but in the short term I’m sure that will be no consolation to the creators and LCS owners who will be out of pocket, and the readers who are losing their favourite books.
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Oh man, let’s hope they finally take the step of killing floppies once and for all… and go all digital while they’re at it (and lower the fuckin prices ffs)…
But then again, this industry is just stupid stubborn, so they probably won’t learn anything.
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Jim Lee just gave an interview and says there’s no radical change in operating for DC. They still want to sell comics but will be consolidating the line as 25% of their comics lost money. This is no great revelation, usually 20k is their cut off point and about a quarter of the books were below that.
A hint though on more ‘digital and international focus’. All new material from DC Studios will be on HBO but DC Universe won’t go. My conclusion from that is they’ll emulate Marvel Unlimited, make the service all comics and available everywhere. I hope so anyway, I’ll sign up first day if it is.
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I’m not sure something like that could happen again as Marvel and DC are now small subsidiaries of huge conglomerates.
DC has been since 1972, the year before I was born.
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Jim Lee having to stand up and say that DC is still interested in the comics business feels a bit like protesting too much. If you have to publicly state that, as a comics publisher, to reassure people then things have gone badly wrong somewhere.
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Maybe but it’s also a world where rampant speculation goes wild online and to be honest I’m guilty of it. I’ve jumped to DC looking more to trades on very little evidence, the facts are they’ve just cancelled some low selling books.
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DC to Publish Alan Moore’s Famed Twilight of the Superheroes Proposal
December’s DC Through the ’80s: The End of Eras hardcover includes the complete text of Alan Moore’s unproduced Twilight of the Superheroes proposal.
DC Comics has revealed the official solicitation information for December’s DC Through the ’80s: The End of Eras hardcover. And, among a slew of other content, the book will include the entire text of legendary writer Alan Moore’s unproduced Twilight of the Superheroes proposal.
For the uninitiated, Twilight of the Superheroes was a comic book crossover series Moore proposed to DC before parting ways with the company in 1987. Somewhat inspired by The Dark Knight Returns and the concept of giving superheroes “endings,” Twilight would have restored the DC Multiverse following Crisis on Infinite Earths. Borrowing its name from the Ragnarok of Norse mythology, the epic would have taken place in a future ruled by superhero dynasties and chronicled the final battle between Earth’s heroes (both young and old), its villains and some of the aliens inhabiting Earth. Twilight’s framing device included Rip Hunter relaying the information regarding these events to John Constantine.
Of course, the Twilight proposal isn’t the only thing DC Through the ’80s has in store. The hardcover also collects ’80s-published issues from such DC titles as Action Comics, Detective Comics, The Flash, Jonah Hex, House of Mystery, Wonder Woman, Sgt. Rock and more — not to mention new essays by the likes of Jack C. Harris, Elliot S. Maggin, J.M. DeMatteis and Andy Kubert, among others.
DC Through the ’80s: The End of Eras goes on sale Dec. 15 from DC Comics. The 520-page hardcover retails for $49.99. Curt Swan and Murphy Anderson’s cover, as well as the full solicitation information, can be found below.
DC THROUGH THE ’80S: THE END OF ERAS HC
written and illustrated by VARIOUS
cover by CURT SWAN and MURPHY ANDERSON
ON SALE 12/15/20
$49.99 US | 520 PAGES | FC | DC
ISBN: 978-1-77950-087-8The ’80‘s were a truly rad time for comic books. DC was killing it with groundbreaking titles like Man of Steel, Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, and Watchmen. This collection, curated by writer and former DC publisher Paul Levitz, celebrates the pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths era of the early 1980s with memorable adventures including Alan Moore and Curt Swan’s poignant “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?,” both Batman and Superman teaming with their Golden Age equivalents in separate stories, Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor versus gremlins, and more.
Collects Action Comics #583, Detective Comics #500, The Flash #296-298, Jonah Hex #54-55, Superman #423, House of Mystery #286, #290, #294-295, #300, #308, #321, Warlord #42, Wonder Woman #311-312, The Brave and the Bold #200, Weird War Tales #93, Time Warp #2 and #3, G.I. Combat #288, Blackhawk #258, DC Comics Presents Annual #1, Super Friends #36, and Sgt. Rock #345, #347, #368, and #387.
Also includes new essays on this amazing era from such comics luminaries as Jack C. Harris, Elliot S! Maggin, J.M. DeMatteis, Andy Kubert, and more, and features the complete text of Alan Moore’s legendary, never-before-published Twilight proposal!
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Sometimes I fear a sequel to V for Vendetta will pop up.
Aren’t we living that right now?
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Put it in with a collection of the least favourite contracts he signed with them.
V For Validity
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The proposal has been online for years. It’s been ages since I read it but I recall a lot of the ideas were subsequently used in Kingdom Come.
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Yeah Hellblazer would be the one I’d question as it’s relatively new and that material always does better in trade but you know, we don’t get to see those numbers. It looks like there may be a major contraction at DC.
Looks like the Sandman Universe project turned out to be a bust. Books of Magic, House of Whispers, Lucifer, and now Hellblazer have all been canceled. And The Dreaming was just restarted with a new creative team and #1; at this point I won’t be surprised if it turns out to be a “limited series” (wink-wink).
Can’t say I’m terribly surprised. The whole thing seemed like an attempt to restart the old Vertigo line under the ostensible auspices of being a Neil Gaiman Sandman project, never mind that “Sandman” comics without Neil Gaiman behind the typewriter tend to flounder.
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Jim Lee having to stand up and say that DC is still interested in the comics business feels a bit like protesting too much. If you have to publicly state that, as a comics publisher, to reassure people then things have gone badly wrong somewhere.
Yeah, when I hear “everything is fine, nothing to worry about” stuff like that, it’s kind of hard not to see the writing on the wall…
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Is Taylors SS any good?
Mmm, a lot of it is “some other group” guest-starring the Suicide Squad, and I am still wondering how he is going to explain the whole who is behind everything…
And I find the whole “it was always a maxiseries” thing difficult to digest, it just doesn’t ring right. And with a movie and videogame coming out later?
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Jim Lee having to stand up and say that DC is still interested in the comics business feels a bit like protesting too much. If you have to publicly state that, as a comics publisher, to reassure people then things have gone badly wrong somewhere.
Yeah, when I hear “everything is fine, nothing to worry about” stuff like that, it’s kind of hard not to see the writing on the wall…
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And I find the whole “it was always a maxiseries” thing difficult to digest, it just doesn’t ring right
The words I read were ‘it wasn’t renewed’. It isn’t unknown for them to plan stuff that way so it can finish at a certain point or continue if it does well.
One example was Fraction’s Hawkeye series, every Hawkeye book before that had failed so while it was an ongoing he built in with the editor how they could end it at 6 or 12. As it happened it was a major hit so he could play it his full intended run.
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(Batman thinking in the middle of a fight) “These cowardly and suspicious criminals thought they were following poor helpless Bruce Wayne, they didn’t realise that Bruce is also the Batman. Ever since my parents were killed I have used the focused totality of my batarangs to fight cowardly and suspicious criminals such as this. Because I’m the best at what I do, and what I do is be a creature of the night, a caped crusader for justice, a battler against cowardly and superstitions criminals, this is what I am and what I shall always be, no matter how much it costs me and (continued next panel)
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(Batman thinking in the middle of a fight) “These cowardly and suspicious criminals thought they were following poor helpless Bruce Wayne, they didn’t realise that Bruce is also the Batman. Ever since my parents were killed I have used the focused totality of my batarangs to fight cowardly and suspicious criminals such as this. Because I’m the best at what I do, and what I do is be a creature of the night, a caped crusader for justice, a battler against cowardly and superstitions criminals, this is what I am and what I shall always be, no matter how much it costs me and (continued next panel)
When I read that, I heard Adam West’s voice saying those lines.
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When I read that, I heard Adam West’s voice saying those lines.
When I read that, I thought “is this Claremont or Bendis?”
Definitely Claremont. Not enough stops.
And starts.
That one just keeps going.
It doesn’t stop!
Just keeps going.
Going.
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Yes!
https://www.ign.com/articles/tim-drake-robin-young-justice-damian-wayne-batman
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Although I love Damian, Tim Drake is Robin to me so I’m cool with this. Damian seems like he could strike out and make an identity of his own like Nightwing and Red Hood did, but Tim’s never needed another identity. He’s the perfect Robin.
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Liam Sharp has suggested that The Green Lantern may end up being Grant Morrison’s last work for DC.
https://www.cbr.com/green-lantern-grant-morrison-last-dc-work-ever/
If that’s true, it’s maybe not such a bad thing. I feel like Morrison has said a lot about these characters by now, and Green Lantern was maybe the last big DC character for him to tackle.
He’s at risk of repeating himself if he hangs around and does more of the same kind of work at DC, and I’m not sure he fits under the new regime anyway. I hope this means a fresh focus on his own projects.
Although I do hope he finishes his Wonder Woman Earth One trilogy with Paquette.
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I’d be happy if it were so.
I know it’s a minority view but I’ve never been overly keen on his ‘mainstream’ superhero stuff (I’m excluding things like Animal Man and Doom Patrol there). All Star Superman was genuinely great but the rest is quite patchy and in my list of favourite Morrison works they wouldn’t feature.
I preferred Happy! and Klaus to any of the DC work so I’ll be a lot more enthusiastic for some new indie material.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if he was leaving out books like Arkham Asylum 2 and WW: Earth One vol. 3 from that as they’re probably close to being finished on his end.
I’d be happy to see him do more creator-owned stuff like Nameless.
I guess between him leaving DC and the allegations against Cameron Stewart, we’ll never see Seaguy Eternal…
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The latest issue of The Flash has a nice homage to that time when I was about to relapse but Todd stopped me with his magic word.
You’re welcome?
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I don’t read The Flash (because Barry Allen), but according to Bleeding Cool there is a smidgen of retroactive continuity adjustment for Wally West’s Heroes In Crisis actions in the latest issue. Not quite as blatant as with Matt Murdock or Hal Jordan in the past, but it takes the edge off the most egregious elements.
Didio is gone so all bets are off?
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Worth pointing out that’s just conjecture from the solicitation text, but I imagine it’s legit.Probably find out more at the DC FanDome event tomorrow. I think that’s planned to be more comic focused.
With Death Metal wrapping up big style in Dec too, there could be some pretty big things happening in January.
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Mark Waid returns to DC in December – Newsarama link
…writer Mark Waid contributing a story to DC’s Dark Nights: Death Metal: The Last Stories of the DC Universe anthology one-shot.
…With longtime writer Brian Michael Bendis departing from Action Comics and Superman ongoing series in December, there could be room for Waid to take a crack at the Man of Steel’s adventures once and for all.
…Waid said at WonderCon 2017 that his “dream project” was Shazam!, saying “That one is in my sights.”
Yes, very click-bait and speculative.
But I’m intrigued. Give him Superman. Honestly it’s about time.
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That would make me stay on board post- Bendis (whose run I have really enjoyed overall). Waid in anything DC would be pretty awesome, actually. He’a pretty fond of a guy called Wally I hear. Shazam would be great, but I don’t know if DC would relaunch that so soon. Justice League. The list goes on.
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It was just before he left DC for CrossGen, so honestly his writing felt a little burnt out to me at the time. Didn’t help that his run was plagued with artistic inconsistency, and he was determined to knock the wind out of Morrison’s Bat-God too. I wasn’t really a fan, but a lot of people do view that run fondly.
I do think Waid’s a better writer though now, and after a decade or more away I think it would be exciting to see I’m back at DC.
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Ironic, as I vaguely recall Waid accusing Hitch of not following his script back in the day. I could be misremembering though. It was a while back.
I think I would have enjoyed the run more if the artists had drawn a full arc each, instead of multiple artists contributing to each arc. That sort of thing has always been disappointing.
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Also down to vague memories long ago but I recall Morrison jumped ship to Marvel to do the X-Men with limited notice, so Waid may not have had the time to really plan what he was going to do.
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Actually I’m pretty sure Morrison’s final arc “World War III” was planned as such and it was a 6-parter.
Plenty of time.But there was something about that run. Good at times, not at others.
Issues behind the scenes, but I forget.
Mark Waid’s JLA
________________________________So, the more I think about it, the more it has to happen. But not just Superman. The driving force for their new direction.
fingers crossedDC shoots down ‘5G’ or reboot speculation – “not going to happen”
Jim Lee Promises a Major Announcement Regarding DC Universe’s Future
“Stay tuned next week for big news about @thedcuniverse and it’s exciting future!” Lee wrote.
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Expect more WildStorm returns at DC next year
This ain’t no grift – Grifter and his WildStorm buddies are on the DC’s horizon
WildStorm alum Grifter will return to comics with October’s Batman #101, and that’s not the only piece of that mothballed brand that’ll be back in the coming months.
“In 2021 you’re going to see more WildStorm integration, but in a thoughtful, deliberate, creative way when it makes sense,” Lee said in a Q&A session aired as part of the second DC FanDome on September 12. “You want to make sure all the characters in our universe exist for a reason and occupy a certain part of the spectrum in our mythology so you don’t have characters with duplicate powers, duplicate origins, or duplicate missions.”
Grifter will be re-introduced in October’s Batman #101 as a new hire for Lucius Fox, who was recently revealed to be CEO of Wayne Enterprises. This would be Grifter’s first major DCU appearance since the end of The New 52: Futures End in 2016.
“With that kind of thoughtfulness and creativity, we’d love to see more of the WildStorm universe of characters, when it makes sense. And that’s the current approach.”
Lee didn’t go into detail about what to expect in 2021, but we’ve already confirmed DC plans to re-release Gen13: Starting Over – a long out-of-print collection of the first two years of that teen team created by Lee, Brandon Choi, and J. Scott Campbell.
Several years ago there were plans to continue Warren Ellis’ Wild Storm revamp with additional limited series including a Wildcats title, but nothing new has been announced on that front since mid-2019.
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