Daredevil: Born Again (With SPOILERS)

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#126319

I like the D’Onofrio parts, but this was mostly fairly miserable.

None of the new characters are doing much for me, and bringing back Foggy just to kill him off straight away feels like a waste. Though I guess they had already filmed most of the rest of the season without him when they decided to add this to the start of the show.

According to this review from Alan Sepinwall, who has seen the whole season, we don’t get Matt back in costume until Episode 6, which feels like a waste: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/daredevil-born-again-review-marvel-superhero-1235281408/

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  • #126320

    I got halfway through episode 1 before work this morning, and as cool as the hallway fight in series 1 was, do we really need to try and recreate it or outdo it every damn time?

    (I did like the fight though)

  • #126324

    I watched the first episode. It’s not as good as I hoped but better than I feared. Definitely the best MCU TV I’ve seen so far, but that’s damning it with faint praise.

    Superficially it feels quite like the Netflix series, although it’s not quite there when it counts – there’s a big fight scene early on that’s clearly meant to be a statement of intent, but it’s marred by wonky CGI and has a cheap feel to it. And although Cox and D’Onofrio are as good as ever, the material isn’t quite up to scratch – there’s a diner scene between the two of them that they present as if it’s DeNiro and Pacino in Heat, but the script is flat and all the drama doesn’t feel quite earned, which goes for the episode in general.

    I’m still hopeful that this could be good, as there is some good meaty DD material here about both Fisk and Matt struggling to build new lives without giving in to their inherent nature. And the show walks the line pretty well between being a soft reboot while also acknowledging the previous incarnation of the show. Also, the cast are generally good and there’s a new love interest with decent chemistry. I just wish they were given slightly more to work with.

    My test with these things is always: would I be watching this show if it wasn’t called Daredevil but was something entirely new? And I’m not sure I would. But because there’s potential there, I’ll stick with it for now.

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  • #126331

    All right, good that they kept the theme from the Netflix series. It’s well made, but…

    I just ain’t feeling it.

    I’m also starting to conclude stories that work fine for me as comics do not when moved to film or TV.

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  • #126346

    I’m also starting to conclude stories that work fine for me as comics do not when moved to film or TV.

    Yeah, often you realise that so much of the appeal (particularly for superhero stuff) is how the story is brought to life on the comics page, rather than the essential story itself.

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  • #126348

    So theory, Foggy’s just going to show up later on, he saw the glowing light and heard the angelic music but decided nah, Heaven was way too far and stuck around on Earth.

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  • #126352

    So theory, Foggy’s just going to show up later on, he saw the glowing light and heard the angelic music but decided nah, Heaven was way too far and stuck around on Earth.

    The Hand resurrect him as a brainwashed ninja assassin to kill Matt but just as he is about to kill Matt, Matt says something that makes him remember. They then team up to take down the Hand.

    I mean, we haven’t seen anything like that done before anywhere.

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  • #126353

    And Seth Green is there too with a bottle sticking out of his head.

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  • #126355

    Seriously, I thought it was decent. It was way better than most Marvel/Disney series, but that’s not exactly a high bar to cross.

    It does have some gravitas and weight, but it feels like they are still holding back. It’s like they are afraid to fully commit to the tone. I’m not saying there has to be profanity every other word or ultra-realistic violence every five minutes. It is crime noir with superheroes that has a more serious and grounded take. It still has a bit of a Disney feel to it.

    I’m also starting to conclude stories that work fine for me as comics do not when moved to film or TV.

    Yeah, often you realise that so much of the appeal (particularly for superhero stuff) is how the story is brought to life on the comics page, rather than the essential story itself.

    I think it was Clive Barker talking about his love for comic books who said they were great because you had an “unlimited budget”. On page one you show the birth of the universe, tell an expansive and wonderous story, and destroy it all in spectacular fashion on the last page. Someday, special effects will become so cheap you can do anything and have it looks fantastic and realistic.

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  • #126357

    I watched episode two. It’s still pretty flat although there are some better Fisk moments. But it feels like the kind of show that’s embarrassed to be about superheroes and so is almost all legal drama instead. And it’s kind of boring.

    It seems to be a bit of a curse of modern TV that they think it’s great to hold the good stuff back for ages to build it up. Which can be true (and would have been good for the Matt/Fisk diner scene for example), but that only works if you’ve got interesting stuff to do in the meantime. And it doesn’t feel like this show has an interesting story to tell until Matt gets back to being DD.

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  • #126358

    I watched episode two. It’s still pretty flat although there are some better Fisk moments. But it feels like the kind of show that’s embarrassed to be about superheroes and so is almost all legal drama instead. And it’s kind of boring.

    That’s why they completely changed showrunners and scrapped all their plans after the strike. Episode 1 and the last two were created by the new creative team, but Eps 2-7 are from the old team when it was mostly just going to be a legal drama in the superhero world. I’m sure the new team reshot some stuff, added some scenes, etc, but it’s still mostly the original showrunners’ show.

    We probably won’t see fully what the new team want to do with Daredevil until Season 2.

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  • #126359

    That’s why they completely changed showrunners and scrapped all their plans after the strike. Episode 1 and the last two were created by the new creative team, but Eps 2-7 are from the old team when it was mostly just going to be a legal drama in the superhero world. I’m sure the new team reshot some stuff, added some scenes, etc, but it’s still mostly the original showrunners’ show.

    I didn’t know that, but it makes a lot of sense.

  • #126368

    It’s not as good as season 1 of the Netflix show, but I enjoyed it. Interested to see them tackle this idea of Punisher fanboy cops.

    It did feel like a bit of a waste to bring Foggy back just to kill him off (for no apparent reason) right at the start of the first episode though. Karen can sod right off though, that’s fine.

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    Ben
  • #126370

    I watched episode two. It’s still pretty flat although there are some better Fisk moments. But it feels like the kind of show that’s embarrassed to be about superheroes and so is almost all legal drama instead. And it’s kind of boring.

    That’s why they completely changed showrunners and scrapped all their plans after the strike. Episode 1 and the last two were created by the new creative team, but Eps 2-7 are from the old team when it was mostly just going to be a legal drama in the superhero world. I’m sure the new team reshot some stuff, added some scenes, etc, but it’s still mostly the original showrunners’ show.

    We probably won’t see fully what the new team want to do with Daredevil until Season 2.

    Well, this explains a lot, what a mess.

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  • #126440

    I watched episode two. It’s still pretty flat although there are some better Fisk moments. But it feels like the kind of show that’s embarrassed to be about superheroes and so is almost all legal drama instead. And it’s kind of boring.

    That’s why they completely changed showrunners and scrapped all their plans after the strike. Episode 1 and the last two were created by the new creative team, but Eps 2-7 are from the old team when it was mostly just going to be a legal drama in the superhero world. I’m sure the new team reshot some stuff, added some scenes, etc, but it’s still mostly the original showrunners’ show.

    We probably won’t see fully what the new team want to do with Daredevil until Season 2.

    Well, this explains a lot, what a mess.

    I read somewhere that Marvel films their series like movies. They film all the scenes then edit them into individual episodes.

    I think that process is why many series episodes don’t feel tight or coherent in relation to other episodes. They tend to feel like a section of a larger story. With most television series, each episode tells its own story with a beginning, middle, and end, while contributing to the main story arc.

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  • #126500

    Yeah, too many TV series are understood as 8-hour movie, missing that an 8-hour movie would be boring. For episodic, and arc TV, each piece needs to have impact.

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  • #126501

    I thought this week’s ep was pretty decent, and I appreciate that they’re not faffing about.  Other shows might make a whole year out of Fisk becoming mayor, or Hector’s trial.  Hell, wasn’t Punisher’s trial in Daredevil series 2 like three or four episodes?

    But it is very much a crime drama that features Daredevil rather than a Daredevil story thus far.

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  • #126506

    As soon as they mentioned Hector’s niece, I knew his time was limited. I’m enjoying it, I thought episode 3 was really good, but it feels like it’s as much as Punisher story (and he’s not even shown up) as a Daredevil one.

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  • #126510

    But it is very much a crime drama that features Daredevil rather than a Daredevil story thus far.

    To me it feels more like a crime drama that doesn’t feature Daredevil.

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  • #126599

    Hi Folks,

    It’s been a while.  Good to ‘see’ some familiar ‘handles’.

    I I just got through the first three episodes of the new Disney+/Marvel “Daredevil: Born Again.”  I held off reactivating Disney+/Hulu when it started, in order to watch the show with a former co-worker, and fellow long time DD reader, and our schedules didn’t match up very well, these first two weeks.

    Lot to unwrap here, but so far, it looks like we’re in a “waiting game” for things to heat up.

    Story and Tone: Some said that DD:BA would be a have a far lighter, at times, more comedic tone than the Netflix series. I’m so relieved that they didn’t go in that direction. Matt showing up in the yellow and red outfit, and the relative levity of his role in the She-Hulk series, had me fearing the worst.

    Brian Michael Bendis: Three episodes in, you can really see BMB’s influence on the script. Bendis’ run on the title was noteworthy for the amount of time we spent on Matt being Matt, the lawyer, and delving into his personal and interior life (so much so that other long time DD readers I know, like the owner of the comic book shop I patronized at the time, complained about it, saying, “I buy DD for DD, not MM”). So far, that seems to be the case. It’s likely the first half to two-thirds of the series will be about events driving Matt – and Wilson Fisk, for that matter – to reclaim their ‘disavowed shadow selves’. Then I expect we’ll see Matt as DD, in all his ‘violent glory’, so to speak.

    Big Budget CGI – It was said that one of the benefits of having a Disney+ sized budget (as opposed to, what I suppose were lower Netflix budgets) was that DD’s fight scenes would be much more acrobatic. That kinda’ worried me then, and worries me still.

    One of the great pleasures of the Netflix series was the quality of fight scenes – something that they put great emphasis on – so far, for all of the CGI enhancement, the fight scenes haven’t yet quite matched those in the Netflix show – the scene where a couple of the vigilante cops try to intimidate Matt, and Matt starts breaking limbs, nonwithstanding – I’m worried that an over-reliance on FGI will take something away from the fight scenes.
    But it’s still early yet, so we’ll see…

    I’m sure some of you remember Drew Edwards, who was a long time regular on the Authority Board, (and might be on this one, I don’t know, and don’t get here often). We had an exchange about the show on Facebook. He said the CGI has allowed the directors to make this series much more cinematic and DD’s movement much more acrobatic.

    I really didn’t see it. There were two shots in that first act that showcase Matt’s swinging round that reminded me of the way Gene Colan drew DD swinging around town – but so far those are the only moments that stand out in that way that I can recall. And as they took place at night…

    Again, it’s early yet, and so far, 90% of the story has been about Matt, the Lawyer. I expect half to two-thirds of the story will be about events driving Matt and Wilson Fisk to reclaim their alter egos. I expect things to get more dynamic once they cross that threshold.

    Supporting Characters: One fun thing about Bendis (whose involvement in the current show is pretty obvious by now) run on the title, and the Brubaker run that followed, was that both writers expanded DD’s supporting cast considerably, managing to work in Elektra Natchios, Peter Parker, Frank Castle, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Danny Rand, Dakota North, Alaqua Cox, and even Reed Richards and Stephen Strange in fun and interesting ways. (That funny rooftop conversation where Peter Parker mentions his ‘hot wife waiting at home’ before leaving, and Cage, Danny and others express surprise that Peter is married to a woman, and confess that they all thought Peter was gay, stands out.)

    I hope the showrunners of this current series take some cues from those stories. To my mind, it would be the best way to bring those people back into the MCU: TV Division; by casually reintroducing them, as all living in the same world – something the Netflix shows have already set up for them.

    Heightened Reality: Overall, I’m hopeful, but I’m a bit worried about the way many scenes have been directed and edited together. The example that stands out to me, in this regard, is the siner dialogue scene between Matt and Fisk. It was pretty pedestrian: so much of it shot with the two men sitting, facing each other in profile, across the table.

    Honestly, it was kinda’ dull. Compare that to the scene in Michael Mann’s “Heat”, between Pacino’s MCU detective and DeNiro’s bank robber: the variety and number of over-the-shoulder shots and the way those were edited together. There were a lot of moments like that throughout these first three episodes that I thought could’ve delivered more dramatic tension.

    They way the directors, camera people and editors put together the HBO MAX Penguin series is another good point of comparison. I dodn’t think there was a single moment when they didn’t wring every ounce of drama they could out of every scene of that show.

    Three episodes in, DD:BA is missing that sense of heightened reality – something the Netflix version had in spades. This might be intentional… setting up for a time later on, when DD and the Kingpin cut loose.

    Supporting characters, continued: Whether it’s in DD:BA, or in upcoming shows featuring other characters from the Netlfix/Marvel era: I do hope the new showrunners bring back Deborah Ann Woll’s Karen Page and Rosario Dawson’s Clare Temple. Those two (along with Carrie Ann Moss’s Jeri Hogarth and Simone Messick’s Misty Knight) played an important role connecting all of the other characters in the Netflix shows. Page in particular was particularly good playing opposite Jon Benthal’s Frank Castle. Barring heavy reliance on first person voice-over narration, the Punisher is a character that needs a ‘relatively normal’ supporting character to ‘play off’ of.

    And I’m really hoping the new Disney/Marvel showrunners bringing back Colleen Wing, whom I began to see as the great unsung heroine of the Netflix Iron Fist show – esp. since the actress reportedly turned down a role in the MCU Shang-Chi film in the hopes of ‘keeping the door open’ to playing Colleen again in the future.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 4 weeks ago by WonK.
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  • #126617

    Paul FAccording to this review from Alan Sepinwall, who has seen the whole season, we don’t get Matt back in costume until Episode 6, which feels like a waste: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/daredevil-born-again-review-marvel-superhero-1235281408/

    Huh, that seems unwise, though I’m assuming that Matt will see a fair amount of action in his civies, until he caves in, and dons the ‘red & black’ again. Though in the context of 18 episodes…

    Hindustan TimesNine episodes make up Season 1, however since the plot has been divided into two halves, we will have to wait for Season 2’s upcoming episodes.

    Episode 6 is a third of the way through the story. Getting driven to dust off one of his uniforms would make for a first act (out of three) ending. Episode 9 (halfway through the second act) might end on a cliffhanger of some sort.

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  • #126633

    The latest episode was probably the best so far, which isn’t saying much, and is largely on the basis of just one or two scenes that feel like a version of the show I’d like to see more of.

    (Having said that, the Kingpin stuff was mostly pretty dull and his career as mayor feels like one of the most tedious storylines I’ve seen in a superhero show.)

    The one thing that gives me hope is that the bad stuff seems to be the parts made by the old showrunners and the good stuff seems to be in the scenes added by the new ones. So maybe if we can wade through the crap then we’ll get to some good stuff once we get into the post-retool episodes.

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  • #126640

    Fisk having to endure awful renditions of We Built This City on Rock And Roll feels almost too cruel

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  • #126643

    I loved that stuff. And Fisk being bound in red tape about the docks thing. D’Onofrio really added to that, I think a lot of other actors would have just growled through it.

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  • #126656

    Compared to past MCU shows (not mentioning any names right now),  this DD show is all right.

    I am glad MCU kept a lot of the Netflix cast until now. Tbh, some of their resemblance to the comics is unreal.

    I hear next week will be parts 5 and 6 which will be good.

  • #126659

    Looks like all the stuff with Bernthal’s Punisher is from the new showrunners, as he walked away from the show with the original showrunners as he wasn’t happy with their take on the material:

    https://www.gamesradar.com/entertainment/marvel-tv-shows/punisher-star-jon-bernthal-walked-away-from-the-original-daredevil-born-again-because-he-disagreed-with-his-characters-direction-i-thought-would-not-appeal-to-the-fans/

    I do find it frustrating that Disney decided to retain so much of that material anyway and front-load it into this series, seems like a very poor decision when it must have been obvious that things weren’t working.

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  • #126660

    I do find it frustrating that Disney decided to retain so much of that material anyway and front-load it into this series, seems like a very poor decision when it must have been obvious that things weren’t working.

    They only started filming Season 2 in the last few weeks, so I don’t think they would have enough material if they cut out all of the old stuff. They would probably have had to push back to the end of this year or early 2026.

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  • #126675

    I could live with that.

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  • #126762

    For some reason I was under the impression they were dropping these two episodes together because it was the big Daredevil/Punisher team up event….Instead it seems they put them together to maybe distract from how bad the Inside Man knock off episode was.

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  • #126765

    I enjoyed the bank heist episode, but it felt completely out of place on this show.

    Fun (to me) fact: The actor playing the main bank robber almost certainly went to the same primary school as me, two years under me.

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  • #126766

    I found the pileup of Irish stereotypes somewhat amusing

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  • #126775

    I found the pileup of Irish stereotypes somewhat amusing

    Wait, those are stereotypes? You mean that’s not how Irish people really are?

    I’m so confused.

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  • #126860

    I really enjoyed the bank heist episode. Just a nice bit of stand-alone superheroing and fun to see Yusuf in a different context.

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  • #126894

    Interesting breakdown of what is new and what is reshot/moved in the series: https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/1jldtgk/not_sure_what_is_new_and_what_is_old_with/mk2x57g/

    What people seem to not realize about Born Again is, the show was never originally bad. There was a problem of lacking context to feel like a sequel to the Netflix show, but it was never bad in concept to do something different. While the Netflix show went for a Brian Michael Bendis tone, Born Again wanted to go for something more along the lines of the Mark Waid comics. That means more jokes, but also using that to show Matt over-compensating for his depression. You talk about Episode 5 being too quippy, but that’s entirely in line with Mark Waid’s Matt.

    The main problem was that, like most MCU productions, the scripts weren’t finished when it went into production, and they were trying to fix them up as they went along. Then the WGA Strike happened, and then they could only shoot stuff as written. Which caused Jon Bernthal, who signed onto the show, to walk off due to his issues with the un-shot Punisher arc scripts. That in turn caused production to halt, with them only having 6 episodes shot of the original 18 scripts. The White Tiger arc, the breather “day in the life of” episodes, and the Muse arc were shot, but nothing else.

    By the time the strike ended, Marvel came to three conclusions. One, the scripts they hadn’t shot yet had spiraled too out of control and needed to be vastly redefined or scrapped. Two, they needed to make it feel more like a sequel to the Netflix show. And three, they needed the cast to be enthusiastically on board with the show, rather than only kinda on board and wanting changes. Notably, Jon Bernthal, hence why the new showrunner was hired from The Punisher show, rather than the first Daredevil show.

    The changes were never really about “un-doing” anything. It was all about contextualizing the new direction better with the old one, and aligning the new one to eventually lead back into something more like the old one.

    All that said, here’s everything that was changed during the overhaul, up to Episode 5 because I haven’t watched 6 yet:

    Episode 1:

    • The new pilot, entirely new and written by Dario Scardapane and directed by Benson and Moorhead
    • Done to establish a connective tissue to the Netflix show and set up ways to eventually bring the show back in line with it later on as well.

    Episode 2:

    • The original pilot, written by Corman and Ord and directed by Michael Cuesta, White Tiger arc part 1.
    • Cut the original proper introductions to Kirsten, Heather, and Cherry
    • Re-shot the Vanessa scenes (She was originally re-cast, but Scardapane brought back Ayulet).
    • All Vanessa scenes were shot by Jeffrey Nachmanoff.
    • Any and all Muse scenes shot by David Boyd and moved up from later episodes

    Episode 3:

    • Original episode 2, written by Jill Blankenship and directed by Michael Cuesta, White Tiger arc part 2.
    • Vanessa scenes re-shot by Jeff Nachmanoff
    • White Tiger’s death re-shot by Benson and Moorhead (We have set photos confirming that)
    • Any and all Muse scenes shot by David Boyd and moved up from later episodes

    Episode 4:

    Original episode 3, written by David Feige and directed by Jeffrey Nachmanoff, Breather arc part 1.

    • Originally had a “day in the life” structure, with no time cuts happening.
    • That structure was changed in the overhaul due to the logistics of the new Vanessa re-shoots (Nachmanoff) and the movement of scenes from later episodes.
    • Muse scenes shot by David Boyd and moved up from later episodes
    • Matt finding the bullet is new connective tissue added by Jeffrey Nachmanoff and new writer Jesse Wigutow during the overhaul
    • Punisher scene originally shot by David Boyd for original episode 5 or 6 (Now 6 or 7) and moved up. Bernthal’s side remains unchanged.
    • Charlie Cox’s side has some re-shoots and ADR by Nachmanoff and Wigutow to better connect to White Tiger’s death

    Episode 5:

    • Original episode 4, written by Grainne Godfrey and directed by Jeffrey Nachmanoff, Breather arc part 2.
    • Unchanged entirely
    • Always meant to be a “bottle episode”, a lower budget standalone episode of a show meant to focus on character in between plot stuff
    • Meant to show Matt’s status quo breaking, as well as establish MCU connectivity with fun cameos
    • Last of the breathers before “things get real”

    It seems all the Muse stuff was originally contained to one or two episodes, and they moved a bunch of scenes to earlier in the season to build him up more. Which makes this episode feel like a real anti-climax.

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  • #127043

    That was definitely a lot better. I don’t care about Bullseye much, and the supporting cast is still paper thin, but it felt like a much more confident show.

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  • #127083

    That last episode was interesting. Next will the last one for a while.
    I heard that they were making parts of season 2 in my area, but it was too late for me to pass by.
    Would have been nice to see some of it.

    I can’t get over some of the casting. D’Onofrio looks like he jumped out of a DD issue and came to life. Same with Ayelet Zurer. They were planning on recasting Vanessa with Sadrine Holt but they decided to bring her back.

    As for the city: Apparently there is only one therapist in NYC. Or it is an amazing coincidence who her clients are and her private life.

  • #127243

    That finale was much too grimdark for my liking. I might have liked it more as the start of S2 setting up the new status quo than as the end of S1, which is just a bizarre season of TV when looked at as a whole.

    I don’t care much for The Punisher, and never watched his Netflix show, so I hope giving over one of the S2 episodes to the Punisher special means he’s not in Daredevil: Born Again S2 much.

  • #127253

    The gore scene was a bit much.

    This “city regime” is reminiscent of…

    D’Onofrio looks the part, but his talking (pantameter) takes a bit of getting used to.

    All in all, compared to a few of the past MCU streaming shows (Fury, some Falcon, some She Hulk, Moon Knight, Kamala Khan), this one was more interesting.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Al-x.
  • #127258

    I quite liked it. It did feel a bit disjointed as a series, which hopefully won’t be an issue next season. I must admit, I was expecting this season to end with Matt publicly unmasked (and really thought he was going to do it in Josie’s at the end there) but I guess not. I also thought when he said he needed an army or whatever we might see some of the Defenders, but again, I guess not. I’m especially curious how Luke would be dealing with all this, given where his Netflix show left him, but that is quite a lot for a Daredevil show to get into (vs the Punisher, who is quite simplistic by comparison).

    I totally agree Al, the content of this show is getting extremely relevant to current times, which is surely a coincidence on the writers’ part but yeah, a little uncomfortable in places.

    The gore felt a tad try hard in the fight in Matt’s apartment, but I think it needed to be as much as it was when Fisk killed the police commissioner to really underline both that he is still the Kingpin, whatever his pretences, and also just how complicit the NYPD is and how much they’re willing to go along with.

    Paul, I’ve never cared much about the Punisher as a character either, but his Netflix shows were pretty good and worth a look.

  • #127259

    Overall I kiked it, but I agree the last episode was a bit too much, trying to hammer home the night being darkest before the dawn and all that.

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  • #127282

    One of the incarcerated was Kate Bishop’s stepfather, the Swordsman. Will the next generation Hawkeye get involved? Or other NY heroes like Jessica, Cage, Fist, Echo, Spidey?

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Al-x.
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  • #127286

    Spidey

    Spidey won’t for contractual reasons with the studios.

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  • #127288

    One of the incarcerated was Kate Bishop’s stepfather, the Swordsman. Will the next generation Hawkeye get involved? Or other NY heroes like Jessica, Cage, Fist, Echo, Spidey?

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Al-x.

    I was hoping Kate would show up, but given they sent the whole season to critics and it didn’t leak, I knew she wouldn’t. I just want her to show up somewhere. I’m still hoping she’s in Thunderbolts*.

  • #127302

    She’s presumably on a back burner until a Young Avengers project happens. Can’t be too long, they’ve got most of them set up now. I was a bit surprised Eli wasn’t in Brave New World at all, actually.

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  • #127305

    She’s presumably on a back burner until a Young Avengers project happens. Can’t be too long, they’ve got most of them set up now. I was a bit surprised Eli wasn’t in Brave New World at all, actually.

    My assumption is that had been planned as a TV show, before they cut back on all of those, and now they have no idea what to do with these characters.

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  • #127307

    Given they’re increasingly not that young, they might end up being just the Avengers at the end of the next set of Avengers movies.

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  • #127308

    Given they’re increasingly not that young, they might end up being just the Avengers at the end of the next set of Avengers movies.

    I did see a rumour that they would be The Champions, which I guess is the team name they have left.

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  • #127312

    I did see a rumour that they would be The Champions, which I guess is the team name they have left.

    New Warriors is still available, as are West Coast Avengers and Great Lake Avengers.

    Anyone up for a Power Pack movie?! :unsure:

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  • #127313

    I did see a rumour that they would be The Champions, which I guess is the team name they have left.

    New Warriors is still available, as are West Coast Avengers and Great Lake Avengers.

    Anyone up for a Power Pack movie?! :unsure:

    I imagine Ultimates will get used at some point.

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  • #127320

    Spidey

    Spidey won’t for contractual reasons with the studios.

    True. Spiderman because of Sony. (Disney could buy it back but I take it that their deal to have him in the MCU like this suits them for now.) Dr. Strange’s house is in the Village, but him on the show would be too much magic for a “grounded” show. (Although NYC was where Loki and the army attacked but…)

    As for Cage, Fist, and Jessica. Why not? Young Hawkeye may be a toss up. Would she detract from a show that’s supposed to be “grounded”?

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  • #127327

    I think the only concern with using Kate would be showing her around the levels of gore they’re going for with DD and Punisher.

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  • #127344

    Some BTS:

    https://i.ibb.co/rK448L2Q/IMG-7359.jpg

     

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Al-x.
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  • #127345

     

     

    And the prop head:

    ————

    I know the comics but Vanessa was introduced on Netflix as an art curator. Then she met Wilson and look at her now.

    I give credit to Netflix original casting and MCU for being smart enough to keep that core.

    ————–

    I remember on the Sopranos, Dr. Melfi read a peer review that treating criminals just makes them better at being sociopaths

    I wonder where Dr. Heather Glenn will go next season being the marriage counselor to the Fisks. 🤣

    “When I was a boy…”

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Al-x.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Al-x.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Al-x.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Al-x.
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  • #127514

    I finally finished watching this. What a maddening series – very mediocre and dull for the most part, but then it turns into a really good Daredevil show at the last minute just before it ends.

    I hope that means the next series will be good, but I wonder how many people will have waded through the crap to get there.

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  • #127517
    For anyone who made it through the dreadfully uneven first season of Disney+’s “Daredevil: Born Again”, and then found themselves, like me, breathing a sigh of relief at those last two episodes…

    Now about that ‘army’…

    🖼: Adam Murphy, “fanboy cartoonist” [📷: “Now about that army…” (Me)].

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by WonK.
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  • #127569

    A little more BTS:

    The original version of the series started with what is today Episode 2. In this version, it’s already been 1+ year since Foggy was killed off-screen (not by Bullseye however) and Matt has stopped being Daredevil ever since. He is in now in a relationship with Heather and has a new law firm with Kirsten and Cherry (who we first meet here with presumably no context about how he knows Matt’s secret identity, although a different scene might have been filmed to show us that), while Fisk is being sworn in as Mayor.

    Karen on the other hand was not mentioned at all in the whole show and it was like she didn’t exist.

    The whole concept was that Born Again would have been a completely new series, keeping what the showrunners wanted from the Netflix show and scrapping what they didn’t, although without completely contradicting the Netflix series’ canon, in order to keep their options open for the future.

    Now Born Again Season 1 was structured as a very episodic series with 4 2-episode arcs (8 Episodes total), each one focusing on a different story, while also having an overarching story in the background (Matt slowly being born again as Daredevil, while Fisk slowly descending into darkness, slipping back into his persona as the Kingpin).
    Original Plan

    The first 2 episodes, directed by Michael Cuesta were about the Trial of the White Tiger, which remained more or less unchanged (apart from reshooting the scenes with Vanessa with Ayelet Zurer of course) because of the real-life death of Kamar De Los Reyes, who portrayed Hector. One scene that was reshot in Episode 3 was actually Hector’s death who was originally murdered by a corrupt cop with a Punisher tattoo, but was switched to the cop wearing a Punisher vest instead, to make the audience wonder whether the killer was actually Frank. And I’m gonna explain why in a minute.

    The next 2 episodes, directed by Jeffrey Nachmanoff, were more filler and focused on the aftermath of Hector’s death, Matt slowly springing back into action, Muse’s set-up and Fisk slowly descending into his older self, just like we saw. The only significant change they made was adding Frank’s scene which was originally shot for episode 6 (what is now Episode 7) to set up Frank’s arc in Episodes 7 and 8, which were never filmed originally (and will now be Episodes 8 and 9). And it was BECAUSE they decided to add this scene, that they also decided to reshoot Hector’s death in order to set up Frank’s appearance in what is now Episode 4.

    The next 2 episodes, directed by David Boyd was the Muse arc, which features Matt becoming Daredevil again as well as the Anti-Vigilante Taskforce being formed, which we just watched. Once again, the episodes weren’t significantly changed apart of course from reshooting all the scenes with Vanessa, but without changing the script.

    Yes, some scenes were reshot/ADRed to add some references (visual or in dialogue) to the Netflix series (eg the Rabbit in a Snowstorm in Fisk’s basement, Punisher mentioning Bullseye and Heather mentioning Karen), but nothing noteworthy was changed in the plot.
    So what are the reasons they went ahead with the overhaul?

    The arcs felt very standalone and episodic, so they added some scenes to make them more coherent and focused. (EDIT: Case in point, u/ClassicNeedleworker6 pointed out, in the trailers, during Muse and DD’s fight in the tunnels which took place in Episode 6, we see a man laying on Muse’s table instead of Angela, and there’s a lot of evidence of ADR whenever they mention Angela in episode 7, which means Angela was likely not seen again after Hector’s death and her entire role in continuing Hector’s investigation and being kidnapped by Muse was added in reshoots in order to add said continuity and coherence between the separate arcs, but also to probably set Angela up as the new White Tiger as well)

    The show started off really abruptly and threw audiences into a world which they were supposed to be familiar with, but one that also had many new variables (characters, story details), which the producers felt hadn’t been set up properly. This is why Dario Scardapane added a new pilot episode which introduced Cherry, Detective Kim, BB, Buck, David, Heather, Kirsten and gave us a good idea of who they are and what their connections with Matt and Fisk are. This new pilot also showed Foggy’s death on screen to make us really connect with Matt’s loss, which was previously only “told” to the audience.

    Daredevil didn’t show up in costume until Episode 5 (which is now Episode 6), and the show had much less action, brutality and intensity compared to the Netflix series, which the producers didn’t like. The only action scenes before Matt suits up were in Episodes 1 and 4 (which are now Episodes 2 and 5). Of course this wasn’t changed, because it was impossible to completely scrap 6 whole episodes, but Dario added the intense and brutal, one-shot action sequence against Bullseye in the new pilot in order to actually show us Daredevil being active on screen BEFORE he hangs up the costume, emphasizing his rebirth later on even more.

    Foggy and Karen’s absence and the show’s loose connection to the Netflix series became something the producers decided wasn’t working, so they finally took the call to officially and definitively canonize the Netflix series and make this new series a direct continuation of the old one. Bringing Karen and Foggy back in the new pilot and bridging the end of Season 3 and the beginning of Born Again with Bullseye’s resurgence and revenge against Matt was the way Dario decided to do that.

    Jon Bernthal didn’t like the scripts for Punisher’s arc (Episodes 7 and 8, which were supposed to be directed by Clark Johnson, the actor who plays Cherry), and didn’t really think the direction they took Frank was true to the character he portrayed previously, so he dropped out of the show after only filming that one scene we’ve already seen in Episode 4. This was one of the most significant reasons for the overhaul, because Feige and Marvel desperately wanted Bernthal to come back, which is why they hired Dario Scardapane, a writer from Netflix’s Punisher, to revamp the show and of course rewrite the 2-part finale which features Frank’s arc.

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  • #127572

    Interesting. Thanks.

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  • #127790

    So the bank heist one was his least favorite:

    Charlie Cox Reveals His Least Favorite Episode of Daredevil: Born Again (And It’s a Fan-Favorite)

    I swear, the next time I find out they are shooting a few blocks away …

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  • #127963

    Krysten Ritter to return as Jessica Jones in series 2

    https://www.avclub.com/krysten-ritter-returns-as-jessica-jones-daredevil

    Now, get Jessica Henwick back on board too!

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  • #127970

    I swear, the next time I find out they are shooting a few blocks away …

    Hope to stop by:

    🤣

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  • #128028

    I passed by and they are filming a scene inside the church. I wasn’t allowed in.

    This kid was across the street and told me he saw Cox  not in costume and the Bullseye guy waved “Hi” at him. It’s a church scene with Matt Murdock inside. Sorry no costumes. The production will be there until 11pm.They got the whole street laid out with tents (it’s raining), a food tent, equipment tent, etc.

    And… they parked two “Anti Vigilante” vehicles.

    This is fun. I’ll take a walk and pass by again in a few hours. If there is more, then more pics. 🤣

    The two took a break from a scene and stepped outside the church. I got this of “Bullseye”. Cox was literally in front of me signing pics, comics, and Funko boxes for these kids. I was about to take a pic but the security guy told me because of legal “spoiler” reasons not to take pics of him, even though they walked outside in cloaks.

    There were a small group of teens around who were there all day and they told me they go to all the shoots in NYC checking it all out and get autographs etc.

    A group of extras (Anti vigilante task force) all walked by to this restaurant. A few saw me and my shirt and chuckled.
    It was all cool.

    https://i.ibb.co/9mL6cDLc/IMG-7522.jpg

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by Al-x.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by Al-x.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Al-x.
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  • #128654

    I hope to catch the action and take a few pics.

    And … thought this was funny

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  • #130516

    I passed by and it’s all been moved to next Thursday. Too hot anyway.

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  • #138758

    They got the permits to film and set up equipment and catering tents on 3 blocks.
    Found this prop interesting:

    I used to hang out in the Village and I know the real Spring Street stop. 🤣

    So far, I only caught him. There will be more shooting today:

    It’s quite a production. All these people on the payroll:

    It is hot like Summer. I figure they might do more at sundown when it gets a little cooler and do more inside the church.

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  • #140368

    I finally finished watching this. What a maddening series – very mediocre and dull for the most part, but then it turns into a really good Daredevil show at the last minute just before it ends.

    I hope that means the next series will be good, but I wonder how many people will have waded through the crap to get there.

    Yeah, I’m with Dave here.

    I thing I understand least is how much time they spend with really dull and annoying side characters and how little they do with, well, Daredevil. Look, I don’t fucking care about Boy Deputy Mayor and his relationship to the Girl Reporter, and neither do I give a shit about Matt’s fights with his office co-workers, and if you really want to make Heather the dumbest and most dislikable person on the planet, and if you are too bad at writing to give her any charm or wit or appeal at all, at least try to give her some, I don’t know, sexual chemistry with Matt because his being with her at all became impossible to believe very quickly indeed and just cringey to watch. And fucking Muse turned out to be the dullest villain ever. Jesus. Really the bank robbery ep was probably the best of the season, and the reason for that was that Matt got to be Daredevil and there wasn’t any other dull, convoluted shit going on (well, except for Kamala’d Dad going on about his daughter all the time, sledgehammer writing at its fucking best).

    The show only came alive somewhat when Frank and Karen entered the picture, but honestly the Kingpin side of things was still pretty boring.

    I do appreciate that the team that came in is probably responsible for the things that worked in the show, so hopefully it’ll get better. But those scenes of KP recruiting Heather into his team doesn’t really make me excited for the next steps.

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  • #140646

    I found out today that the set I took pics of will be season 2 episode 7. Can’t get over the fake Spring Street Station. 🤣

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  • #140647

    I found out today that the set I took pics of will be season 2 episode 7. Can’t get over the fake Spring Street Station. 🤣

    Looking forward to your cameo! ;)

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  • #140665

    I wish I had a cameo and be signing release papers given I am not a SAG member.
    Like the woman who walked on the Star Trek movie:

    https://i.ibb.co/1Y79gBYj/Screenshot-2025-07-25-204850.png

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