Daredevil: Born Again (With SPOILERS)

Topic

I like the D’Onofrio parts, but this was mostly fairly miserable.

None of the new characters are doing much for me, and bringing back Foggy just to kill him off straight away feels like a waste. Though I guess they had already filmed most of the rest of the season without him when they decided to add this to the start of the show.

According to this review from Alan Sepinwall, who has seen the whole season, we don’t get Matt back in costume until Episode 6, which feels like a waste: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/daredevil-born-again-review-marvel-superhero-1235281408/

Replies

I got halfway through episode 1 before work this morning, and as cool as the hallway fight in series 1 was, do we really need to try and recreate it or outdo it every damn time?

(I did like the fight though)

I watched the first episode. It’s not as good as I hoped but better than I feared. Definitely the best MCU TV I’ve seen so far, but that’s damning it with faint praise.

Superficially it feels quite like the Netflix series, although it’s not quite there when it counts – there’s a big fight scene early on that’s clearly meant to be a statement of intent, but it’s marred by wonky CGI and has a cheap feel to it. And although Cox and D’Onofrio are as good as ever, the material isn’t quite up to scratch – there’s a diner scene between the two of them that they present as if it’s DeNiro and Pacino in Heat, but the script is flat and all the drama doesn’t feel quite earned, which goes for the episode in general.

I’m still hopeful that this could be good, as there is some good meaty DD material here about both Fisk and Matt struggling to build new lives without giving in to their inherent nature. And the show walks the line pretty well between being a soft reboot while also acknowledging the previous incarnation of the show. Also, the cast are generally good and there’s a new love interest with decent chemistry. I just wish they were given slightly more to work with.

My test with these things is always: would I be watching this show if it wasn’t called Daredevil but was something entirely new? And I’m not sure I would. But because there’s potential there, I’ll stick with it for now.

2 users thanked author for this post.

lorcan_nagle, njerry

All right, good that they kept the theme from the Netflix series. It’s well made, but…

I just ain’t feeling it.

I’m also starting to conclude stories that work fine for me as comics do not when moved to film or TV.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Dave, lorcan_nagle

Ben wrote:

I’m also starting to conclude stories that work fine for me as comics do not when moved to film or TV.

Yeah, often you realise that so much of the appeal (particularly for superhero stuff) is how the story is brought to life on the comics page, rather than the essential story itself.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Todd, lorcan_nagle

So theory, Foggy’s just going to show up later on, he saw the glowing light and heard the angelic music but decided nah, Heaven was way too far and stuck around on Earth.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Martin Smith, Todd

lorcan_nagle wrote:

So theory, Foggy’s just going to show up later on, he saw the glowing light and heard the angelic music but decided nah, Heaven was way too far and stuck around on Earth.

The Hand resurrect him as a brainwashed ninja assassin to kill Matt but just as he is about to kill Matt, Matt says something that makes him remember. They then team up to take down the Hand.

I mean, we haven’t seen anything like that done before anywhere.

1 user thanked author for this post.

lorcan_nagle

And Seth Green is there too with a bottle sticking out of his head.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Todd

Seriously, I thought it was decent. It was way better than most Marvel/Disney series, but that’s not exactly a high bar to cross.

It does have some gravitas and weight, but it feels like they are still holding back. It’s like they are afraid to fully commit to the tone. I’m not saying there has to be profanity every other word or ultra-realistic violence every five minutes. It is crime noir with superheroes that has a more serious and grounded take. It still has a bit of a Disney feel to it.

Dave wrote:

Ben wrote:

I’m also starting to conclude stories that work fine for me as comics do not when moved to film or TV.

Yeah, often you realise that so much of the appeal (particularly for superhero stuff) is how the story is brought to life on the comics page, rather than the essential story itself.

I think it was Clive Barker talking about his love for comic books who said they were great because you had an “unlimited budget”. On page one you show the birth of the universe, tell an expansive and wonderous story, and destroy it all in spectacular fashion on the last page. Someday, special effects will become so cheap you can do anything and have it looks fantastic and realistic.

1 user thanked author for this post.

lorcan_nagle

I watched episode two. It’s still pretty flat although there are some better Fisk moments. But it feels like the kind of show that’s embarrassed to be about superheroes and so is almost all legal drama instead. And it’s kind of boring.

It seems to be a bit of a curse of modern TV that they think it’s great to hold the good stuff back for ages to build it up. Which can be true (and would have been good for the Matt/Fisk diner scene for example), but that only works if you’ve got interesting stuff to do in the meantime. And it doesn’t feel like this show has an interesting story to tell until Matt gets back to being DD.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Todd

Dave wrote:

I watched episode two. It’s still pretty flat although there are some better Fisk moments. But it feels like the kind of show that’s embarrassed to be about superheroes and so is almost all legal drama instead. And it’s kind of boring.

That’s why they completely changed showrunners and scrapped all their plans after the strike. Episode 1 and the last two were created by the new creative team, but Eps 2-7 are from the old team when it was mostly just going to be a legal drama in the superhero world. I’m sure the new team reshot some stuff, added some scenes, etc, but it’s still mostly the original showrunners’ show.

We probably won’t see fully what the new team want to do with Daredevil until Season 2.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Todd

paul f wrote:

That’s why they completely changed showrunners and scrapped all their plans after the strike. Episode 1 and the last two were created by the new creative team, but Eps 2-7 are from the old team when it was mostly just going to be a legal drama in the superhero world. I’m sure the new team reshot some stuff, added some scenes, etc, but it’s still mostly the original showrunners’ show.

I didn’t know that, but it makes a lot of sense.

It’s not as good as season 1 of the Netflix show, but I enjoyed it. Interested to see them tackle this idea of Punisher fanboy cops.

It did feel like a bit of a waste to bring Foggy back just to kill him off (for no apparent reason) right at the start of the first episode though. Karen can sod right off though, that’s fine.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Ben

paul f wrote:

Dave wrote:

I watched episode two. It’s still pretty flat although there are some better Fisk moments. But it feels like the kind of show that’s embarrassed to be about superheroes and so is almost all legal drama instead. And it’s kind of boring.

That’s why they completely changed showrunners and scrapped all their plans after the strike. Episode 1 and the last two were created by the new creative team, but Eps 2-7 are from the old team when it was mostly just going to be a legal drama in the superhero world. I’m sure the new team reshot some stuff, added some scenes, etc, but it’s still mostly the original showrunners’ show.

We probably won’t see fully what the new team want to do with Daredevil until Season 2.

Well, this explains a lot, what a mess.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Dave