Crossovers

Topic

[DavidM]

Here’s a random question:

When was the first crossover in fiction (any genre/medium)?

Earliest I know of outside comics was when Biggles appeared in King of the Commandos, 1943. This post-dated the Justice Society (1940), which is the earliest I’m aware of in comics.

Any earlier examples?

• This topic was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by DavidM.

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I’m tempted to say something glib like the old testament and new testament, but I guess it’s all about defining exactly what you’re asking, and what the distinction is between crossover and sequel/shared universe. Do shared characters across the Odyssey and the Iliad count? How about Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer?

I think sequels don’t count, so for example The Man in the Iron Mask isn’t a crossover with The Three Musketeers, it’s just another Three Musketeers novel.

I’m tempted to say the same applied to Tom Sawyer/Huck Finn, but I feel on shakier ground with that. And even more shakier with Odyssey/Iliad.

Let’s say a crossover requires the guest character to have been established in his own book/film/comic before then appearing in what is clearly *another* character’s story.

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Dave

Likeliest not the first crossover, but the earliest one I’ve come across is when Robert E. Howard’s King Kull shows up in the debut story of another Howard character, Bran Mak Morn. Kull debuted in Weird Tales in August 1929, then showed up in the first published Bran story in November 1930, having been brought forward to Roman-occupied Britain from his prehistoric past via magic. To the best of my knowledge, this was the only time REH ever crossed over two of his characters.

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garjones, Todd, DavidM

What about Jason and the Argonauts, where heroes like Heracles and Orpheus team up on a quest?

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DavidM

Tobias Radesäter wrote:

What about Jason and the Argonauts, where heroes like Heracles and Orpheus team up on a quest?

Aren’t those people all from one common Greek mythology? If so, that doesn’t fit DavidM’s definition of a crossover.

If, on the other hand, Homer had written a story wherein Hercules and Thor teamed up, that would be a crossover between two distinct mythological pantheons. Or an issue of Marvel’s THE CHAMPIONS.

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Todd

njerry wrote:

Aren’t those people all from one common Greek mythology? If so, that doesn’t fit DavidM’s definition of a crossover.

I think it does fit. They are from the same shared universe, but many of them starred in their own stories before joining together to go on the Argosy. So it’s as much a crossover as when Cap and Iron Man team up.

There came a day when Earth’s mightiest heroes…

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Tobias Radesäter

Is ancient mythology fiction though?

I mean, to us it would seem so, but perhaps not to them? I mean, I view the Bible as fiction but that doesn’t sit right with some people.

What about egyptian hieroglyphs recanting their religious/mythological history?

Akhenaten did a line-wide reboot but the next editor just retconned it.

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njerry

There’s a fair degree of retcon in religion. The reason Christians can eat pork is basically ‘yeah that bit doesn’t count any more’.

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DavidM

The best crossover character is John Munch.

And he, in turn, leads into the Tommy Westphall Universe.

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njerry

Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman (1943)?

 

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DavidM