Hawkeye (Disney+) – SPOILER discussion

Fun start, and I’m already disappointed there’s only six episodes ordered. Love Steinfeld, and really hope we see more of her.

Maybe Season 2 can be Kate solo in LA, like the Kelly Thompson Hawkeye series.

The action scenes were slightly disappointing, compared to Falcon/Winter Soldier and the Netflix shows, but I loved the character stuff, even if focusing on the Ronin plot only makes clear how much that whole thing didn’t work in Endgame.

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lorcan_nagle, njerry

Yeah, it’s a bit weird the plot seems to be centred around the Ronin suit given that felt entirely like superfluous filler for Endgame because they couldn’t think of anything more interesting for Clint to be doing. Did they even call him Ronin in the film?

Renner’s still pretty uncharismatic, but Steinfeld’s great and I like the show’s version of Swordsman, so I’m keen to see the rest.

Oh and I like that they’ve made Clint hard of hearing without it being down to any one thing, just a result of being near so many explosions etc.

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lorcan_nagle

I never would have imagined that a Hawkeye TV show would be so much fun. Mightily refreshing to have one of these Marvel shows with relatively low stakes rather than some global conspiracy or macguffin that threatens the entire universe (so far…). I didn’t realise Tony Dalton was in this so was mightily happy to see his shit eating grin turn up. Renner never quite hit the mark as Hawkeye in the movies but him playing Clint as sad sack dad who just wants to be done with all this crap suits him well, especially when paired with Steinfeld’s energy.

What was the watch that the tracksuit guys were looking for in the robbery?

Wouldn’t Kate just tell her mother about Tony Dalton being at the black market auction?

Her mother seems remarkably uninterested in her only child’s apartment burning down. I presume she has a mug in her office with the slogan “I’m The Real Villain”.

Fair enough with the LARP scene but the firefighter stealing evidence from a crime scene was not particularly cool.

Was that Echo at the end of the second episode? Any chance of getting Vincent D’Onofrio’s Kingpin back?

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lorcan_nagle, Todd

saga wrote:

Was that Echo at the end of the second episode?

It is definitely Echo, firstly it looks like the comics version and the touching of the speakers for vibration and the quasi sign language from the tracksuit goon.

I really enjoyed this, it was probably my least anticipated of the MCU shows but it’s a lot of fun, well paced and it is nice to see Toast of London as Kate’s stepfather.

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Todd, Martin Smith, lorcan_nagle

I enjoyed it. I really appreciate the low stakes nature of the story. I would like to see more of that with D+ series.

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lorcan_nagle

Fun episode! Loved the chase sequence. They definitely seem to be heading for Hawkeye retiring to be with his kids at the end of the season.

Maya’s “Uncle” is definitely Wilson Fisk, right? I re-watched the karate scene, and the laugh sounds very D’Onofrio.

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Rocket, Todd

Kingpin would be slumming it if he was reduced to using the tracksuit bros as his hired goons. Still, I’d love to see D’Onofrio back in the role.

Potential for a Charlie Cox Daredevil return to follow?

paul f wrote:

Fun episode! Loved the chase sequence. They definitely seem to be heading for Hawkeye retiring to be with his kids at the end of the season.

I think he had already retired around the time of Civil War (he was officially an agent of SHIELD anyways, so that was over since Winter Soldier I reckon), he just kept being sucked into the big conflicts, then he went crazy when his whole family got dusted… and I’m pretty sure he’s technically retired when this show starts as well… but yes, this is probably his official exit, although I’m sure he’ll be back if they want him at some point.

Anyways, yeah 3 for 3 so far… very fun show. Although, not gonna lie, it has the same feeling of “this is an extended movie” that F&WS had, but hey, I don’t mind… the longer runtime allows for a lot of character development, which Clint is very much owed at this point, plus we get an organic passing of the torch with Kate, which is always better than just replacing them because of diversity mandates or whatever.

What I really like about this show is that it harkens to phase 1, and more importantly, it’s the first MCU thing that really lives up to and really benefits from the whole real-time MCU concept and again, in an organic fashion, not a forced attempt like Captain Woodplank for example.

So yeah, good show, and I’ll be happy to see D’Onoffrio’s Kingpin back, although I don’t expect him to have a lot of screen-time… Funny how Disney-Marvel is now embracing absolutely every show and movie that was (except for AoS lol) whereas a couple of years ago they kept dodging their existance… I guess it’s a confirmation that the Netflix shows are indeed MCU canon… I wonder if we’ll see Iron Fist again =P

Jon wrote:

Funny how Disney-Marvel is now embracing absolutely every show and movie that was (except for AoS lol) whereas a couple of years ago they kept dodging their existance… I guess it’s a confirmation that the Netflix shows are indeed MCU canon… I wonder if we’ll see Iron Fist again =P

I wonder if it’s more working around the edges than embracing. The Netflix shows remain on Netflix, presumably forever as that’s always the intention with Netflix originals. As such I don’t think we’ll see too much linking back to them but it’s hard to deny D’Onofrio is pretty perfect casting as Kingpin (just like JK Simmonds is for JJJ) .

I don’t imagine they’ll go out of their way to reference the Netflix shows or their non PG-13 ways. It’s more just that the casting of D’Onofrio as Kingpin (and Cox as Daredevil) was so spot on that they may as well just embrace it if they are legally able to. I presume the wording of the deal they signed with Netflix has scope for them to use the same actors as the same characters, even if it is technically a Netflix property.

It’s not just the Netflix stuff though, seems the Sony stuff is also being “embraced” or however you wanna put it. I mean, at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if they also canonized the Foxmen crap (they technically could)… =/

But yeah, they’re right to bring back the Netflix cast, they at least did a good job with the cast picks… and yes, I think Iron Fist was alright, it’s just the show was rushed and helmed by a pretty mediocre guy. I’m sure the dude would do fine with a proper production team in his corner… but at any rate, wouldn’t mind at least seeing Netflix’s JJ, Luke and the Punisher again (besides DD and Kingpin of course). They can burn the Inhumans and AoS with fire for all I care (although Black Bolt, Karnak and Maximus were rather well cast and deserve another chance).

I didn’t even consider it might be Kingpin.

The chase sequence was really fun, which is good, because it was in the D+ Day sizzle reel thing and felt pretty flat there. I’d guessed from that that Clint was partially deaf, but they’d cut out the obvious elements of that, along with the purple sludge arrow, which I think accounted for a lot of that. The Pym particle arrow was great.

I definitely feel like Clint’s going to make it home for Christmas at the last possible moment with Pizza Dog in tow to make up for it.

Oh, I thought the phone call moment was pretty great too.

As for folding the Netflix characters into the MCU “proper”, maybe it was always the intention? There was a no-compete type clause in the license that only recently expired for them, but also the whole Blip thing has meant that there’s still two years before real time catches up to the MCU (everything since Endgame has been pretty much set concurrently in 2023 – how much time is stated to have elapsed in No Way Home since Far From Home will be interesting on that front), which allows a lot of space in which to set things in motion. So there’s still a couple of years in which to set up a project for Daredevil et al that picks up with them post-Blip (and for convenience sake, you can have them all having been snapped away – I’m still only making my way through the back-half of the Netflix shows but I don’t think anything from Infinity War’s release onwards explicitly contradicts that).

• This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Martin Smith.

Martin Smith wrote:

he whole Blip thing has meant that there’s still two years before real time catches up to the MCU (everything since Endgame has been pretty much set concurrently in 2023

Yes I did think about that watching it yesterday. They are seemingly allowing real time to catch up the 5 year gap, which is a sensible approach. We’re now 13 months from 2023 so as long as next year’s slate is set around then it’ll align back up.

I went back and watched the bit in question and I think even if I hadn’t read it here I would have recognised his very distinctive chuckle. I didn’t first time around because it came when I was trying to turn the volume up on the “smart” TV I was watching it on and it decided to activate the microphone thing, which practically mutes the TV.

In these shows and movies. all these street level heroes with no superpowers are all so athletic, gymnastic, can fight 2-3 guys singlehandedly, martial arts experts, have the quickest reflexes, be a deadshot with a gun or arrow (even in a car chase driving wildly) and heal sofa king fast. 😂

Reminds me a little of the Banshee show.

It is TV and not real I know.

This actual video is the closest thing you can get to this:

• This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Al-x.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Al-x.

This is pretty balanced in looking at the characterizaion:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/hawkeye-episode-3-does-what-the-avengers-movies-should-have-been-doing/ar-AARltuM?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

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njerry

‘Hawkeye’ Directors Bert & Bertie Break Down Episode 3’s ‘Exciting’ Action Sequences

‘Tis the season for some great Marvel action sequences, and Disney+‘s Hawkeye is certainly delivering the goods thanks in part to directing duo Bert & Bertie.

They brought some of the show’s best action sequences to life in the season’s third installment, “Echoes,” which sees Clint (Jeremy Renner) and Kate (Hailee Steinfeld) in a bind as they’re held captive by the Tracksuit Mafia under Maya Lopez’s (Alaqua Cox) direction, in an abandoned KB Toys.

“It was a disused department store,” Bertie explains. “We always knew we wanted it to be in an abandoned toy or department store.” The use of KB Toys was a nod to Marvel Studios’ president Kevin Feige’s own love for the now-defunct chain. “Kevin had a big connection with KB Toys as a child, and he was like, ‘This is perfect cause they’ve gone out of business.’ He was the one who pushed it in that direction and they came on board and loved the idea.”

While the action kicks off with Clint and Kate’s attempt to escape their captor’s clutches, the excitement continues in a car chase sequence and a bridge showdown. Despite the quick pace of all these sequences, Bert & Bertie see them as separate chapters in a way, making the moments easier to digest when you’re the one behind the camera.

“It starts off being overwhelming and exciting, but as you get into it, it just becomes scene after scene,” Bert says. “The action is part of the show and universe, and we have an amazing stunt team headed by Heidi Moneymaker who’s the most incredible talent, and she takes on [scenes like] that in the way a choreographer would in a dance. You preface everything to death, so by the time you get to set, you can enjoy it.”

While the fights taking place inside KB Toys are thrilling in themselves, the pacing really picks up once Kate and Clint hit the road in their getaway car as the camera swivels in the backseat to give viewers a full look at the ensuing chase. “That was done for real,” Bert muses, adding, “The spinning camera is all practical. That’s what’s so exciting about it.”

She admits that it was a “big challenge” as well, noting that that specific sequence “had to be a oner” in order to capture the feel they were trying to create. “So we had the rig, we had the dialogue, and everything was timed out. And I think it excited everyone because it’s kind of old school,” Bert continues.

The duo wanted to thank their director of photography James Whitaker who helped them test rigs for the look they were going for. “We had a lot of different rigs that we tested, and some were a bit more mechanical than others,” Bertie shares, revealing that the smoother camera work wasn’t what they were going for in the car chase. “We were doing this for real, so we wanted this incredible rig that had these bungee cords. So even though it’s smooth, there was still this sense of the action with the vibration of the car.”

Any chance they had, the directors tried to accomplish the scenes practically, and although you might not initially believe it, there was one point or another when Hailee Steinfeld was actually hanging out of a car window. “As much as possible, we did it for real on the streets,” Bert says.

The directors also give credit to their performers who brought their own skills to the series and episodes Bert & Bertie helmed. For Hailee, it was all about getting the action and fighting right as Bert reminds us the actress is a “badass” who is “very physically able.” The more certain scenes were filmed, the more the actress could take on stunt-wise. “She trained really hard to get there.”

Jeremy, on the other hand, is seasoned at playing Hawkeye, and so, Bert & Bertie picked up on his approach to Clint’s quirks and commended the actor’s ability to improv in the best way possible. “He just brought the comedy,” Bert muses, as she and Bertie remember the ball pit scene from KB Toys. According to them, Jeremy came up with the idea to have a sneak attack on the Tracksuit Mafia members as he emerges from the pit. “It was so great. It’s his Marvel thing,” Bert continues. “He made it so much better.”

Don’t miss more great moments and action as Hawkeye continues to stream on Disney+. And keep a careful eye out for Bert & Bertie’s exciting directing in Episodes 4 and 5.

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Uncle Retrospective, lorcan_nagle

njerry wrote:

when Clint is talking to his young son on the phone

I love realizing that was the kid born in Age of Ultron

It is a great show. I would love it if somehow Maya wears the Ronin outfit. It would be like an echo( ) of Hailee in the first ep.

“You give us our arrows back and in exchange you also make us two new costumes.”

Kate’s negotiation game is strong.

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Rocket, Todd, lorcan_nagle, Uncle Retrospective

Despite what people keep claiming, Renner is actually a pretty good actor… and he did break down, in his way… not everyone has to bawl like it’s Star Trek Discovery =P

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Christian, Rocket, Uncle Retrospective, Todd, Dan, njerry

Jon wrote:

Renner is actually a pretty good actor… and he did break down, in his way… not everyone has to bawl like it’s Star Trek Discovery

Hard agree there. Hawkeye in the MCU is a military man that’s faced a lot of shit in his life. A thousand yard stare is most likely a more realistic response than breaking down in tears.

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Rocket, Uncle Retrospective, njerry, Todd

Al-x wrote:

Hope they get their due for their material being up there now.

Matt Fraction gets a “consulting producer” credit, and both he and David Aja (along with a dozen or more Marvel creators) get a “Special Thanks” credit; not sure if that translates to any financial compensation.

It’s been a much discussed subject actually with Hawkeye. That they’ve very directly copied Aja’s designs and logos from the comic in the promo material and credits sequences and he has received nothing.

It has raised slightly different questions too than normal because MCU material usually has a lot of stuff ‘inspired by’ various comics but they’ve not really done such an obvious cut and paste job before in my recollection. Legally I’d assume they are covered, it is all work for hire material, but morally is another question.

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Al-x, Uncle Retrospective, lorcan_nagle

garjones wrote:

It’s been a much discussed subject actually with Hawkeye. That they’ve very directly copied Aja’s designs and logos from the comic in the promo material and credits sequences and he has received nothing.

It has raised slightly different questions too than normal because MCU material usually has a lot of stuff ‘inspired by’ various comics but they’ve not really done such an obvious cut and paste job before in my recollection. Legally I’d assume they are covered, it is all work for hire material, but morally is another question.

Wow… nothing.

I know… I know… Doesn’t mean Fraction and Aja have to like it either.

I take it that from now on, writers and creators will ask for some clause in their contracts for a cut if their material ever takes off in the future.

Pretty sure Kingpin is there mainly to help set up the Echo spinoff show, so I wouldn’t expect him to do too much other than an oblique reference to a blind lawyer.

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Rocket

I really enjoyed that. A fitting end to a good series, that did pretty well by all its characters, I think.

I liked that the cufflink Kate swipes to throw back at Fisk is the super-important one from Daredevil s1. Short of him explicitly mentioning “the Devil of Hell’s Kitchen” that seems like confirmation that the Netflix series is canon, I guess? Insofar as it matters.

Similarly, Laura being Agent 19 is enough to make her an ex-SHIELD agent (fair enough) without her necessarily being Bobbi and punting Agents of SHIELD out of continuity. I don’t think Bobbi was ever called that in the series, and it’s unlikely to be a unique, never-recycled title.

I really like the fight on the ice and with the tree. Great setting to use and just letting loose with all the trick arrows was the level of fun that Hawkeye’s been missing in the MCU til now.

Oh and Jacques turned out pretty well. I like that he’s just a slightly odd, gratingly weird guy that’s not involved in any kind of criminal conspiracy. It’d be nice to see him again, but not necessary at all, which is about what the Swordsman deserves, really.

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Todd, lorcan_nagle

I really enjoyed the series and as on now, this is my favorite of the D+ shows. This project finally did Clint justice, in ways the movies have not. Renner and Steinfeld and the perfect buddy cop movie chemistry. And I really do appreciate the low stakes nature of the series.

Great series!!!

SAVE THE CITY!!!!

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garjones, lorcan_nagle

Yeah I mean it was cringy as fuck too BUT bearable with Clint’s reactions… but it’s obvious they added the whole thing just so people can talk about it on twitter… like that Agatha song. Ugh… between my hatred of musicals and my hatred of manufactured social media bait (and Disney is really good at that), just no.

garjones wrote:

The issue really is the MCU set a precedent of having big reveals mid and post credits so people not interested probably hung around waiting for some big reveal when it was just a fun ‘extra’.

I was a little pissed off that a plot point (or two) that were important for the last episode of Wandavision was hidden post credits in the previous episode. I’m all for them putting plot points in the episodes and putting pointless songs in the post credit shizzle.

• This reply was modified 3 years ago by Dan.

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Ben, Todd, Dave, lorcan_nagle, garjones

Donofrio on Kingpin fighting DD and years laters struggling to take out Kate Bishop:

https://ew.com/tv/hawkeye-finale-kingpin-vincent-donofrio-interview/?utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_entertainmentweekly&utm_content=manual&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=61c4ad0b1ff94400012767be&fbclid=IwAR2_5or9x1H2CRESyC4u8ggEkdfSMoRg9MBnkWYz5rGNDjxFn6rVbHyp7NQ

Wow, this was great – easily on par with What If as the best TV output.

I love that they have brought the Tracksuit Mafia to TV.  Good move bro.

The fight scenes in this were superb too.

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Rocket, Todd, lorcan_nagle

Yeah, I really liked the show. It was a fun romp with its heart in the right place, the dynamics between Clint and Kate worked well and it was fun to see Yelena and Fisk. The tracksuit mafia was great and a lot of the dialogue managed to be quite funny. Some of it was a bit too silly (e.g. the LARPers should’ve stayed out of the last ep) and Maya didn’t work for me either, but those were minor points compared to a show that worked really well overall. The action scenes were also good throughout.

But I think nobody has mentioned yet that the best thing about the show was clearly Jack. We realised very early on that Kate’s mum was the villain and Jack was just exactly as he appeared, a superficial, charming, swashbuckling, good-for-nothing, good-at-heart millionaire. And made watching him all the better; I just wanted to cheer for him in every fucking scene he was in. I would watch a show focusing entirely on Jack Duquesne – and I don’t mean as Swordsman or whatever he was called in the comic books, I mean simmply this Jack from the Hawkeye show. He’s awesome.

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Rocket, njerry, Ben, Todd, lorcan_nagle

Also a big Jack fan. Seeing him basically play the same character in Better Call Saul but then pushing further into unsettling villainy is also a treat.

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lorcan_nagle

garjones wrote:

Since when does Kingpin in the comics only have 5% body fat? That’s an insanely low figure most bodybuilders can’t meet.

They don’t half write some bullshit on these things.

https://www.distractify.com/p/why-is-kingpin-so-big

Why is Kingpin so big?
William Fisk, better known as Kingpin, actually grew up poor and was made fun of by his classmates for being overweight. He joined the mob at an early age and began to work out relentlessly and soon, began tormenting his own bullies. Eventually, Kingpin took over as the overlord of crime in New York City and later also got involved with HYDRA.

But in essence, Kingpin is so big because he’s insanely ripped. Although he appears to be a bulky individual, Kingpin is almost all muscle, with just 2 percent body fat. You could argue that he borders on being superhuman, but Kingpin isn’t enhanced in any way — he’s just solid muscle, built up from hard work and exercise.

What are Kingpin’s other talents?
Kingpin is known to be an expert in hand-to-hand combat and specializes in a number of martial arts, including judo and sumo wrestling. His world-class fighting abilities, combined with his sheer physical strength make him a formidable opponent.

Al-x wrote:

William Fisk

Wilson Fisk

If they can’t get his name right, what makes you think they got anything else right? There are thousands, if not millions, of websites and they all can say what they want.