Into the Matrix

This topic has 35 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 2 months ago by Anonymous.

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Participant

September 13, 2021 at 9:54 pm #74296

Soooo… wow remember discussing the Matrix movies on forums/message boards?? That takes you back to the early 2000’s huh??

Why is there no Matrix thread yet? Well… here’s one =P

Anyways, with the upcoming Matrix movie coming out, I thought it’d be fun to discuss the trilogy too… specially since all of those whacky old theories are starting to surface again… you know, the whole “matrix within a matrix” and whatnots…

So I was wondering, what are YOUR theories about it all? Or you know, your general comments…

Have at it!

Viewing 35 replies - 1 through 35 (of 35 total)

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Al-x
Participant

September 13, 2021 at 10:03 pm #74297

Ok…

The first one was amazing. However the second and third ones, the Wachowski’s bit off way more than what they could chew. The movie raised the questions of Neo’s role, free will vs. playing out a script and the sequels failed to answer it. Instead they gave us, stunts, choreographed martial arts, special effects, and thought the audience wouldn’t know any better.

They failed to do the concepts any justice.

Nice thread. I will get to it more when there are more replies.
Anonymous
Inactive

September 14, 2021 at 2:15 am #74316

It is similar to the Star Wars prequels in a sense. If you were a kid and watched the prequels and then saw the original series of Star Wars films, even with all the updated effects, you’d probably like the prequels better.

The aim of the sequels was to develop a Matrix world and that somewhat diminishes the simplicity of the first one, but the original Matrix is only really great the first time you see it. I imagine it doesn’t really have the same effect today on new viewers and I think many of them would actually be more attracted to the sequels for many of the same reasons that it disappointed some fans of the original. It is more sprawling and less focused, but it makes up for it with a lot of novelty.

In the beginning, the hook of the Matrix was the idea that you could be in the Matrix, but in Reloaded and Revolutions, it became its own fictional world like many others that fans could escape into — somewhat diminishing the original concept. Nevertheless, simply comparing the movies, the sequels were no worse than the original in production value, acting or even writing.

My primary problem with the sequels in comparison to the original was that they were unfocused and a bit jerky in the editing. In the Matrix, everything is moving forward pretty quickly with each scene directly and clearly progressing to the next. In Reloaded, they start with the meeting where they reveal an army of Sentinels is on the way to Zion to destroy it. However, no one seems to act as if this is as important an emergency as they say it is. Instead, they go back to Zion and have a party. There is a ticking clock, but no one’s listening.

Neo’s driving action or objective in Reloaded is to find the Oracle so she can tell him what to do. That’s not exactly a compelling motive compared to the Neo at the end of the first film who seemed to know exactly what he was going to do. I mean, he is The One — he should know what to do, but he’s basically still just Morpheus’ top soldier. The arc of the film into Revolutions is Neo looking for someone to tell him what to do until way late into it, he realizes he just needs to determine that for himself.

MATRIX 4 looks like they are trying to recapture some of that original impulse of “the Matrix has you” for the audience while at the same time staying true to the complicated lore set up in the sequels, the anime, the comics and even the short-lived Matrix Online. Still, it’s not going to be easy, but for some reason, I’m fairly positive for this one.

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Todd, Al-x
Jon
Participant

September 14, 2021 at 3:34 am #74319

Al-x wrote:

They failed to do the concepts any justice.

Which concepts specifically do you think they failed at? I thought they addressed the main ones fairly well (although yes, there are some that were barely sprinkled throughout).

Anonymous wrote:

but the original Matrix is only really great the first time you see it.

In terms of plot? Yeah I guess, that happens to any movie that has a massive plot twist/mysetry to it (i.e. the Sixth Sense), but the movie is very very very re-watchable in terms of everything else, except maybe the acting =P

It has some of the most incredible action set pieces even to this day, it has absurdly amazing photography, I mean, there’s a lot of great stuff in that first movie… sadly a lot of it was lost in the sequels.

Anonymous wrote:

I mean, he is The One

But he’s not, though… =P

That was the whole point of the sequels… he is not the one until he decides to be the one, as in the one to do something about it, not that prophetic one they keep talking about.
saga
Participant

September 14, 2021 at 8:33 am #74323

The original Matrix movie, for all its inventiveness in terms of special effects at the time, has a very basic, classic hero’s journey with Neo at the core of the movie. It might not offer up any surprises in that regard but it is a timeless storytelling hook that works time and time again. Unless the project is in the hands of an incompetent writer/director then it basically does half of the work for you.

The sequels didn’t have anything like that underpinning them. They opened it up to explore the world they had created but ultimately it all felt a bit aimless. The original also had the great hook of “what if your boring life wasn’t real and you could actually do all of this cool shit?” Again, they couldn’t replicate that in the sequels and so diminished their immediacy. Along similar lines, the original hit at just the right time for pop culture as internet access became more widespread, the western world got wrapped up in Y2K and dotcom fever – and it stood out as a far cooler sci-fi action movie than the Phantom Menace, a relic from a prior generation. Again, nothing that the sequels could match.

I’m surprised that they’re going down the road of another movie, to be honest. There is still something cool about the concept but at this stage it would seem to benefit more from a TV show approach, which would allow them time to fully explore the world, develop new characters and be funded by stupid money from Netflix. Perhaps that is yet to come.
Dave
Moderator

September 14, 2021 at 8:44 am #74324

I love the Matrix and rewatch it regularly. Seeing it on the big screen again a couple of years ago was a real treat, and I think it still holds up today.

The sequels are flawed but still good, and in terms of visuals and effects they’re amazing. But I agree that there’s an issue with momentum – with the action in the sequels is it feels like not as much is riding on it. Partly because you know Neo is more or less omnipotent.

In the first one every fight is an important part of moving the story forward and you feel like a lot is riding on the outcome of each one. But in the sequels it feels like the story keeps stopping so everyone can have a fight and then starting again.

Aside from that though I think there are some interesting ideas explored and they deserve credit for not going the obvious/simple route with the story, and assuming that the audience can keep track of several big concepts at once.

What I’m hoping for from the new movie is not a detailed continuation of the plot of the original trilogy, but a fresh take on the essential ideas of the Matrix, because in some ways those ideas are more relevant than ever. You can see some of that in the trailer I think – people being constantly “plugged in” via their devices, people willingly consuming misinformation (with Keanu and the masses of blue pills), people living out alternate lives online and of course issues around your internal sense of identity versus outward appearance.

All of these were present to some degree in the original, but feel even more pertinent now.
Dave
Moderator

September 14, 2021 at 12:47 pm #74331

Keanu’s reaction to the new movie has me hopeful.

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Sean Robinson
saga
Participant

September 14, 2021 at 1:11 pm #74332

a.k.a. “…woah!”

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Rocket, Andrew
Dave
Moderator

September 14, 2021 at 1:56 pm #74333

Yeah, basically a long woah.

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Andrew
Al-x
Participant

September 14, 2021 at 4:56 pm #74340

Jon wrote:

Which concepts specifically do you think they failed at?

The whole question of free will. When the sequel came out (especially after the Architect scene), social media forums at the time were discussing Neo’s role as the savior/messiah and did he really have free will. The sequels never did justice to that question. Instead they gave us the stunts, fighting, Agent Smith as the antichrist figure, and the big showdown.
garjones
Keymaster

September 14, 2021 at 5:03 pm #74341

I have seen all 3 Matrix movies. I don’t really remember what happened in them outside the set piece fights.

This isn’t really a criticism, as far as I remember I enjoyed them but I’m not quite sure why the never grabbed me in the way they seem to have others. I think I may watch them again.
Dave
Moderator

September 14, 2021 at 5:04 pm #74342

Al-x wrote:

Jon wrote:

Which concepts specifically do you think they failed at?

The whole question of free will. When the sequel came out (especially after the Architect scene), social media forums at the time were discussing Neo’s role as the savior/messiah and did he really have free will. The sequels never did justice to that question. Instead they gave us the stunts, fighting, Agent Smith as the antichrist figure, and the big showdown.

I feel like the free will question is adequately answered in Reloaded. Neo chooses to go against the usual route for The One by choosing to save Trinity.
garjones
Keymaster

September 14, 2021 at 5:17 pm #74344

Spoilers Dave! 😂
Dave
Moderator

September 14, 2021 at 5:21 pm #74346

Oops.
lorcan_nagle
Keymaster

September 14, 2021 at 6:25 pm #74351

I think the Matrix sequels’ biggest failure is how important the Architect scene is to the flow of the movie, but it’s not that important thematically. He’s a blowhard who uses obfuscating language because he’s the Wachowskis mocking Ray Blanchard, a psychologist who coined the term Autogynephilia as an explanation for the motivation of trans women to transition, based on discussions of their sexual fantasies and desires… but then didn’t compare them to the fantasies and desires of cis women, and even though it’s been largely discarded by academia his bullshit is used by transphobes to justify their bigotry. The Wachowskis also parodied Blanchard in Sense8 in the character of Whispers.

Anyway, the major thematic points in the sequels are a couple of other conversations that Neo has – at the end of Reloaded when he tells Morpheus that the prophesy was just another layer of control, that’s basically indicating that everything prior to this point has been the machines playing a game with humanity, more or less. The question of free will vs determinism is moot at this point because humanity never really had a choice.

The follow-on to this is Neo’s conversation with the Oracle in Revolutions where she can’t predict Neo’s actions any more – she didn’t have the cookies ready in time and she knew there was a chance that was going to happen, because in her own words she can’t see past a decision she doesn’t understand. She uses that phrase to describe Smith and the Architect but it applies to her as well, because the Programs are limited by their code, they can’t self-improve in the same way humans can. In the same way, Smith can see what happens at the end of his fight with Neo after he’s absorbed the Oracle – he can’t understand Neo’s decision to keep fighting and can’t understand what’s about to happen.

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Dave
Jon
Participant

September 14, 2021 at 7:10 pm #74359

saga wrote:

I’m surprised that they’re going down the road of another movie, to be honest. There is still something cool about the concept but at this stage it would seem to benefit more from a TV show approach, which would allow them time to fully explore the world, develop new characters and be funded by stupid money from Netflix. Perhaps that is yet to come.

Huh, I don’t know if you guys remember but the story was supposed to be continued (and it was actually continued) in that Matrix On-line game… I suppose that the idea was too ambitious, specially for that time, and things didn’t go quite as planned, because I don’t think many people played that game… but yes, they did continue it there and I wonder if they’ll even aknowledge that whole thing.

Dave wrote:

What I’m hoping for from the new movie is not a detailed continuation of the plot of the original trilogy, but a fresh take on the essential ideas of the Matrix, because in some ways those ideas are more relevant than ever. You can see some of that in the trailer I think – people being constantly “plugged in” via their devices, people willingly consuming misinformation (with Keanu and the masses of blue pills), people living out alternate lives online and of course issues around your internal sense of identity versus outward appearance.

Well that seems to be what they’re doing, indeed. I kinda would like to see an actual continuation, because I think there were a lot of things in the sequels that were set up and ripe for exploring, but I guess we’ll se…

Al-x wrote:

The whole question of free will. When the sequel came out (especially after the Architect scene), social media forums at the time were discussing Neo’s role as the savior/messiah and did he really have free will. The sequels never did justice to that question.

Well, like Dave said, they do explore it… however I kind of agree with you but also disagree… here’s the thing, that’s a very big question that’s always been debated… I don’t think the movie is supposed to give you answers because I guess there’s no definitive answer, in terms of philosophy, but the movie does explore the question and quite in depth. But in the end YOU are supposed to answer it for yourself… do you think Neo had free will or not? And so, do you think you have free will or not?

lorcan_nagle wrote:

because the Programs are limited by their code, they can’t self-improve in the same way humans can

Eh… No, it’s quite the opposite, that was kind of the point of the sequels… some programs CAN and DO evolve… Smith does, all of the rogue programs did, and that’s the whole point of the indian girl and her parents. Not only they evolve, but they also have free will (again, some), so the question of free will is never moot at any point.

Also: The funny thing about Smith is the irony in his character arc… he starts as a program who thinks humanity is a virus and would like nothing more than to erradicate them… and then he ends up becoming a literal virus himself and it is his actions that lead to humanity’s survival… I’d almost say he’s the hero, excpet he’s not because he didn’t do it on purpose… but yeah, without Smith, Neo has no bargaining chip and the machines destroy Zion. So yay Smith? =P

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Ben
Dave
Moderator

September 14, 2021 at 7:33 pm #74362

Yeah, I think there’s a lot of irony with the characters in these movies and definitely part of the point by the end seemed to be to show that the humans and programs are “not so different”, to use an old cliche.

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Ben
Jon
Participant

September 14, 2021 at 8:01 pm #74366

Dave wrote:

Yeah, I think there’s a lot of irony with the characters in these movies and definitely part of the point by the end seemed to be to show that the humans and programs are “not so different”, to use an old cliche.

Oh it goes well beyond that… In fact, I think the “Revolutions” refer to the machine’s revolution, which is being led by the Oracle.

The Oracle is one of the most fascinating characters in the trilogy, because at first she’s presented as being a leader of the human revolution, it’s implied she’s a human with precog abilities… then it turns out that she’s neither human or a precog, she’s in fact a predictive program and part of the designer team of the matrix… so she’s been basically manipulating everyone from the get go… it’s not that she can see the future, it’s just that she basically puts people on a path by tricking them into thinking that’s their destiny… quite devilish and I love it.

But by the end of it, it is revealed that she is indeed the leader of the revolution, but the machine revolution, and everything she’s been doing has been in service of the machine rebellion… mind you, I think she does care about Neo and humanity, but I don’t think they’re her priority at all, they’re merely pawns in her chessboard… It’s no coincidence the trilogy ends the way it does, with a final conversation between the Oracle and the Architect, with the indian girl right there…

The “peace agreement” she makes with the Architect is for EVERYONE to be allowed to exist peacefully, including those free programs (like the indian girl)… and I really like that the Architect tells her “you played a very dangerous game”, because indeed, she gambled pretty much everything, but in the end got away with it… barely =P

So yeah, there’s an entire subplot going on in the sequles, that’s mostly hinted at, involving a power struggle within the machine world… and I would’ve loved to see that particular aspect of the story explored further in a sequel or a spin-off… I do wonder if the girl we see in the trailers is the indian girl all grown up… that would be pretty cool. The fact that the Merovingian seems to be returning gives me hope for that, but again who knows… I just hope it doesn’t end up being another Force Awakens type of situation… that’d be a shame.

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Jon
Participant

September 16, 2021 at 3:00 am #74465

So anyways, what’s everyone’s stance on Neo’s powers on the “real world”? Please tell me it’s not the “matrix within a matrix” thing =P
Anonymous
Inactive

September 16, 2021 at 3:44 am #74468

Jon wrote:

So anyways, what’s everyone’s stance on Neo’s powers on the “real world”? Please tell me it’s not the “matrix within a matrix” thing =P

I’m not really up on the lore of the Matrix Online game which Paul Chadwick says the Wachowskis considered to be a legitimate sequel to the movies, but the color choices are interesting. Thomas Anderson’s world does seem to have some of the same tint as the sunrise Matrix at the end of revolutions, so he could be in the Matrix, but that guy says that he’s “going back to the Matrix” (though that could be a fake out – it’s not necessarily Neo that he’s talking to).

There is, of course, the possibility that this is a completely different simulation inside the Machine city or set up by a separate human faction entirely designed for Neo. It does not seem likely it is the “real” world since there is code showing up all over (like the “code bombs” in the game).

From the Animatrix, the Machines appear to have spent centuries figuring human physiology, and, when Smith took over Bane in the real world, it is apparent program personalities can be transferred to human brains. Also, even though he’s running on a human brain, Neo can still see the Smith is part of the Machine world, so he could be in a kind of hybrid simulation where the world is real, but what he sees and touches is an augmented reality simulation, and his “powers” are invisible technology that he can control with his connection to the machine programming. He could still be in his original body with new eyes (or even still actually blind) or both he and Trinity could be transferred into new bodies using analog copies of their identities in the Matrix.

It would be interesting if a “Thomas Anderson” program still existed in the Matrix even after Neo took the red pill.
Dave
Moderator

September 16, 2021 at 9:23 am #74480

Anonymous wrote:

It would be interesting if a “Thomas Anderson” program still existed in the Matrix even after Neo took the red pill.

This is an interesting question that I’m not sure has been addressed anywhere. What happens to their human avatars when they unplug for the first time? We see Neo swallowed by the liquid mirror in the first movie – does his body disappear from the simulation, and then only reappear when he plugs back in and re-enters the Matrix? If so, what do his friends and family think have happened to him? Or is there a fake Thomas Anderson created so that no-one knows he’s gone?
Dave
Moderator

September 16, 2021 at 9:24 am #74481

Jon wrote:

So anyways, what’s everyone’s stance on Neo’s powers on the “real world”? Please tell me it’s not the “matrix within a matrix” thing =P

Do you mean the blue electric powers he shows at the end of Reloaded when he takes down the Sentinels?

When I first saw the movie I assumed it would be revealed as a Matrix-within-a-Matrix too. But from memory they never really explained his real-world powers in Revolutions other than to vaguely say that the powers of The One go beyond the Matrix.
lorcan_nagle
Keymaster

September 16, 2021 at 9:43 am #74483

Neo isn’t a random person who turned out to be Computer Jesus, he was built from the ground up by the machines to be Computer Jesus. It stands to reason that they’d put something in there to protect him from Sentinels for the months between his awakening and rejoining the source.
Jon
Participant

September 16, 2021 at 10:39 am #74484

Anonymous wrote:

but that guy says that he’s “going back to the Matrix” (though that could be a fake out – it’s not necessarily Neo that he’s talking to).

Well from the small snipets in the trailer, it would seem that in this new Matrix Thomas Anderson is an actor and he starred in the Matrix, and the guy at the end is like a studio exec or something like that… I’m saying that because you can see at some point a theater screen showing scenes from the 1st Matrix, which kind of indicates some type of meta narrative, which would make sense… but yeah, it could be a fake out… shit, the entire trailer could be a fake out

Dave wrote:

Do you mean the blue electric powers he shows at the end of Reloaded when he takes down the Sentinels? When I first saw the movie I assumed it would be revealed as a Matrix-within-a-Matrix too. But from memory they never really explained his real-world powers in Revolutions other than to vaguely say that the powers of The One go beyond the Matrix.

Yeah I mean that ability to stop/destroy sentinels… plus his special vision thingie at the end.

And no, they don’t outright explain them… which is why yeah there’s a lot of theories, and the matrix within a matrix is one of the most popular ones, but I’ve never agreed with that. There’s enough info throughout the movies to piece together a more logical explanation, imo.
Dave
Moderator

September 16, 2021 at 11:06 am #74486

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Neo isn’t a random person who turned out to be Computer Jesus, he was built from the ground up by the machines to be Computer Jesus. It stands to reason that they’d put something in there to protect him from Sentinels for the months between his awakening and rejoining the source.

Why not just make sure the Sentinels don’t attack him?
Dave
Moderator

September 16, 2021 at 11:07 am #74487

Jon wrote:

I’m saying that because you can see at some point a theater screen showing scenes from the 1st Matrix, which kind of indicates some type of meta narrative, which would make sense

Oh, I completely missed that.

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Andrew
saga
Participant

September 16, 2021 at 11:47 am #74491

Dave wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Neo isn’t a random person who turned out to be Computer Jesus, he was built from the ground up by the machines to be Computer Jesus. It stands to reason that they’d put something in there to protect him from Sentinels for the months between his awakening and rejoining the source.

Why not just make sure the Sentinels don’t attack him?

Plausible deniability.
lorcan_nagle
Keymaster

September 16, 2021 at 12:19 pm #74492

Dave wrote:

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Neo isn’t a random person who turned out to be Computer Jesus, he was built from the ground up by the machines to be Computer Jesus. It stands to reason that they’d put something in there to protect him from Sentinels for the months between his awakening and rejoining the source.

Why not just make sure the Sentinels don’t attack him?

It’s quite clear from their plan that the machines are smart enough, but not necessarily clever. They’re basically the Cinema Sins of renegade AI

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Todd
Anonymous
Inactive

September 16, 2021 at 2:57 pm #74510

Jon wrote:

Well from the small snipets in the trailer, it would seem that in this new Matrix Thomas Anderson is an actor and he starred in the Matrix, and the guy at the end is like a studio exec or something like that… I’m saying that because you can see at some point a theater screen showing scenes from the 1st Matrix, which kind of indicates some type of meta narrative

Yeah, that would be an interesting idea to make him a successful person in a special construct. Like what Cypher wanted to be which could mean there are Cypherites in the story. Their philosophy wasn’t to free people from the Matrix but to get better lives in the Matrix so you wouldn’t want to leave. If they can convince The One that he’s happy in a simulation then it would mean they were right. Sorta like the temptation stories for holy men in all religions.

I still think that Neo influencing the real world is more augmented reality. He is able to manipulate code, so anything using machine code can be affected by him. Similar to how Flynn was able to affect the world of Tron with his user level access. Just now all the technology of the world is generated by the code, he still sees it the way the machines do.
Al-x
Participant

September 16, 2021 at 6:48 pm #74538

“Computer Jesus”

😂😂😂

Wow, man!!!
Jon
Participant

September 16, 2021 at 6:49 pm #74539

Anonymous wrote:

I still think that Neo influencing the real world is more augmented reality. He is able to manipulate code, so anything using machine code can be affected by him. Similar to how Flynn was able to affect the world of Tron with his user level access. Just now all the technology of the world is generated by the code, he still sees it the way the machines do.

Yeah that’s basically what it is… the way I see it is that what happens to Neo after visiting the Architect is that he basically gains “admin access”, plus wifi capability… I’m guessing every plugged human has that wifi capability anyways, because of how things are set up in the movie:

Throughout the movies, they keep mentioning having to get “into broadcast range” in order to hack into the Matrix (which is actually why they even go out of Zion in hover crafts in the first place, instead of just doing the whole thing from the comfort of their living rooms in Zion), which implies that the machines have a comunication relay network, which they not only use to relay information between each other, like sentinels relaying info and orders between them and the machine city, but also the matrix is part of that network and is being broadcast too… in fact the matrix program seems to be a lot more integral to the machine world than they let on… it might even be their whole operating system (which might be why the machine boss agrees to Neo’s deal, instead of just hard formatting the matrix servers and get rid of the Smith virus that way)… plus we see that agents within the matrix can relay information to sentinels in the real world directly, so that also points out to the matrix being used for a lot more that just a self-contained simulation.

Anyhow, the point is, in the movie we see the humans plug into chairs in their ships to get into the matrix, which is why we assume that you need to physically plug into the matrix, but the ships don’t use a cable connection, the ships have a wireless signal receiver, so the chairs and the ship are more like a router: Ship gets into bradcast range and connect to the signal, the operator hacks into the matrix, then everyone else can plug into the ship’s system to take advantage of that hack, instead of having to hack individually into the matrix.

After Reloaded, Neo is able to bypass that whole process and connect to the machines’ signal directly and remotely (they all have a modem inserted into their brain after all, it’s just that Neo unlocks the ability to use it to its full extent), and since he’s already a hacker, and the anomaly with special user access and knowledge, he can basically hack into the Matrix AND into whatever other comunications the machines use, that’s why he ends up beaming his consciousness remotely into the train station, and that’s why he can “sense” the machines in the real world.

Thus I don’t think he’s using super powers to destroy them, but rather he’s hacking directly into the sentinels in the real world to shut them down at the end of Reloaded, and then to make them self-destruct in Revolutions… and his golden vision is just a visualization of how he “senses” the machines.

So like I said, they don’t explicitly explain anything, but there are plot elements sprinkled throughout which allow us to connect the dots… I’m guessing they left it vague so people could interpret it either way, because in the end, the important thing is not “how” he can do it but “what” he can do… But then again, I might be wrong too

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Al-x
Anonymous
Inactive

September 16, 2021 at 7:26 pm #74544

There are a couple elements from the original Matrix script that were eliminated from the movie. The first was that at the end Neo told the machines on the phone that the Matrix could be a cage or a chrysalis. Meaning it could be a prison humans would continually trying to escape or a place where people could grow, programs could evolve and both graduate or transcend rather than die and kill.

Death in the Matrix is a strange concept. Since we know programs can exist as people in the Matrix and programs can inhabit bodies in the real world AND most importantly, if you die in the Matrix then you die in the real world, then “who” or “what” is the person? Is it the mind in the Matrix or the brain in the body? If the connection is broken then the person in the Matrix and the body dies. But what happens there? Did the body die because the mind died in the Matrix? Why would a broken connection kill the body?

I think that is a fail safe to prevent the central illusion of the Matrix. That no body really exists. Instead, everyone is a program whether running on the body or in the Matrix and no one really dies or has to die.

when someone dies there would be no reason to kill a perfectly healthy body. Simply download a new mind to run on its brain.

the second element was that originally the Matrix was conceived as a processing unit for the machine world but back in the 90s the studio thought that would be too complicated for audiences. I think we might find out that that is what it really is and the energy farm concept was another lie so Zion never realizes how important people are to the machines.
Jon
Participant

September 16, 2021 at 10:37 pm #74564

Anonymous wrote:

the second element was that originally the Matrix was conceived as a processing unit for the machine world but back in the 90s the studio thought that would be too complicated for audiences. I think we might find out that that is what it really is and the energy farm concept was another lie so Zion never realizes how important people are to the machines.

Yeah I always thought that was a bummer and that they should’ve changed some of that dialogue in the re-releases, but then again, it’s not so bad… the analogy with the battery still works because whether humans are used for their corporal energy or for computing/processing power, they are in the end “powering” the Matrix, and when you think about it, they might as well use humans for both… why waste any of it? So the way I see it is that morpheus had it right, but only half-right… or maybe he just didn’t go into the whole thing with Neo in that moment…

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Anonymous
Inactive

September 17, 2021 at 10:15 pm #74664

It is interesting if you think of the humans as programs as well that run simultaneously on the brain and in the Matrix and when they die, they can still be spirits in the Matrix – or in some part of the Matrix that even the Machines like the Architect, the Oracle and the Agents don’t know about. A kind of artificial afterlife.

Or the Matrix recycles personalities in its simulation as a kind of artificial reincarnation and karmic wheel.

In a sense, that is something they hint at but never explore. The underlying structure of the Matrix is a group of programs, the Agents, that oppress another group of programs, the humans, because they believe the humans are dangerous and degenerate. However, the Matrix controls all human experience so in a very real sense, the humans are exactly what the machines turn them into with their imprisonment system. People in the Matrix have no choice but to be what the machines believe they are.
Jon
Participant

September 17, 2021 at 10:29 pm #74667

Anonymous wrote:

It is interesting if you think of the humans as programs as well that run simultaneously on the brain and in the Matrix and when they die, they can still be spirits in the Matrix – or in some part of the Matrix that even the Machines like the Architect, the Oracle and the Agents don’t know about. A kind of artificial afterlife.

I’m pretty sure there was a story line in the Matrix on-line game, towards the end of its shelf-life, that had to do with something like that… I don’t recall exactly, but I believe there were some pre-war humans that made a deal with the machines before all hell broke lose, and they were still alive in a digital form… there was also something to do with Neo (or maybe all the anomalies) being their experiments in order to reincarnate physically, or some shit like that… I’m not sure it’s canon anyways… but yeah, it seems they have explored that concept at least.

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Anonymous
Inactive

September 18, 2021 at 3:06 am #74689

I imagine interest in the game and its lore is on the rise now that the sequel is finally coming out. I can appreciate the interest the Wachowskis have in being true to their word and incorporating it into the story. Naturally, the comics and the animatrix are involved as well. It’s actually grown and evolved much more than I thought it had.

I do think that moving into something more “augmented” or “enhanced” reality rather than pure simulation would be a better evolution than going back into a simulation or a multiverse of simulations. Having Matrix reality bleed into and merge with the waking world seems like a natural next step, but it does seem like there is more likelihood that Neo is in some sort of simulation in his Thomas Anderson scenes.