There was a limited episode 1 premiere last night and the full series hits next Friday, 7 May. Discuss the show here.
Jupiter’s Legacy on Netflix – SPOILER discussion
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so it is a “dump” show? With the success of BOYS and Wandavision, i thought they may consider the weekly version.
Saw the ad on TV while I was getting ready this morning and all I managed to catch was Brandon and Walter talking and thought that was such a good Easter Egg.
Interesting idea to put Brandon in a uniform.
edit: I see Wilfredo Torres got his art displayed in the poster, good for him!
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so it is a “dump” show? With the success of BOYS and Wandavision, i thought they may consider the weekly version.
Not at Netflix. They are very wedded to the ‘dump’ idea as something they invented and differentiates them.
All of their original shows are released that way without exception (not to be confused with things they buy for certain markets and like to brand as ‘original’ – e.g. Star Trek Discovery outside the US).
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so it is a “dump” show? With the success of BOYS and Wandavision, i thought they may consider the weekly version.
Not at Netflix. They are very wedded to the ‘dump’ idea as something they invented and differentiates them.
All of their original shows are released that way without exception (not to be confused with things they buy for certain markets and like to brand as ‘original’ – e.g. Star Trek Discovery outside the US).
Netflix also has the quantity of programming to be able to drop new series, specials, and movies every week. No one is watching every single thing dropped but there is enough variety to attract viewers.
So many of the streaming services just don’t have that volume. If Disney could drop new Star Wars and Marvel series, along with other properties, every month, they would switch to the dump model.
I think the biggest misconception is that just because a series is dumped at once means they will be binged in one sitting. Yes, some will do that because they can. Sometimes a show is so compelling, you can’t stop watching. Christel and I were that way with Tiger King. We couldn’t stop watching. But for the most part, I tend to watch series in chunks.
The beauty of the dump model is it gives the viewer control and allows them to watch at their own pace. The viewing experience is in the view’s hands, not the network or service.
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The beauty of the dump model is it gives the viewer control and allows them to watch at their own pace. The viewing experience is in the view’s hands, not the network or service.
Which is cool, but it does take away the aspect of talking to your community after each episode, comparing notes and trying to figure out where things are headed. It’s a fair point that WandaVision drove home how nice that can be.
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If you’re not bothered about interactions alongside the weekly airing of a show then you can always just wait until an given season has aired and treat that finale date as your “dump date”, when you’ll have all the episodes at your command.
And you’ve always been able to do that really. It’s how I watched a lot of shows on VHS and DVD before anyone had come up with the “binge watching” label. The only innovation with Netflix is making all episodes available from the start date rather than only at the end date.
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So many of the streaming services just don’t have that volume. If Disney could drop new Star Wars and Marvel series, along with other properties, every month, they would switch to the dump model.
I’m not so sure. I know it’s a preference for many, including yourself, but Amazon for example (who have a lot of new content compared to Disney if not as much as Netflix) are using a partial dump and then weekly because I think they see value in the way it keeps attention to the show alive.
I think Dave is right too that the binge experience has always been there for many if they wait till something is done. I watched Buffy and the West Wing that way after they were finished. All Netflix has done is front load it.
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it does take away the aspect of talking to your community after each episode,
There have been a number of shows that I have watched the pilot and come on to discuss plot only to have some binger destroy it because they have already watched the episode where the questions posed in the pilot have been answered. To Each their own in viewing habits but some styles can ruin others enjoyment.
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it does take away the aspect of talking to your community after each episode,
There have been a number of shows that I have watched the pilot and come on to discuss plot only to have some binger destroy it because they have already watched the episode where the questions posed in the pilot have been answered. To Each their own in viewing habits but some styles can ruin others enjoyment.
The same thing would happen if I waited to watch a weekly series until after it was over. There would be no way to effectively dodge spoilers until the show wrapped up.
Either way, you will get nailed by spoilers whether you like it or not.
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Here in Mexico Netflix had some weekly episodes at some point when I had a subscription…
They have some but it’s always stuff where they buy in international rights from other broadcasters. As with my Star Trek Discovery example where they are following CBS’ schedule, my wife follows some Korean dramas that have weekly release but again it’s following the schedule of the channel there.
Either way, you will get nailed by spoilers whether you like it or not.
Unless you just watch them when they come out each week LIKE BACK IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS! 😂
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Oof. Early reviews are rough.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-reviews/jupiters-legacy-1234949528/
https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/jupiters-legacy-review-rough-start-netflix-superhero-series/
https://www.cnet.com/news/jupiters-legacy-review-netflix-superhero-drama-needs-some-super-speed/
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/jupiters-legacy-review-netflix/
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I watched episode 1 and it isn’t bad, but it feels a bit undercooked – all of the effects – from the CG through the compositing, the costumes and the aging makeup just feels like it needed a little more time and money. There’s a ton of janky moments especially in the fight at the end that draw me out of the show a bit. I enjoyed it enough to continue at least.
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I watched the first one, pretty much agree with Lorcan. It’s enjoyable enough, certainly no disaster. It does look undercooked though compared to the two Marvel series we’ve just had. For me personally that’s not a huge deal if a story is OK but some hold more importance on effects and the like.
The review I read above had its main complaint about the pacing, for the first episode I thought that was ok but we’ll see if it spins its wheels. While there are lots of other criticisms to be aimed at Millar’s comics work that’s rarely one, he usually rips through his story. That’s fun for the comics reader but may become an issue when his work isn’t being translated into films but TV shows that they imagine for multiple seasons.
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Saw the first episode, too, and it was alright. Writing wasn’t brilliant, but carried the show well enough, mostly (though I think the generational conflict may become a bit of a cringey thing). Action was nicely all-out violent, even with the dodgy VFX.
I don’t remember how this was done in the comics, but the climax of the father-son-conflict being that the kid kills the villain after he murdered one of his team-mates and when it was clearly the only way to save his mum… that could’ve been handled better. There’s not a lot of ambiguity there; as a viewer, I kinda have to go, Jesus, Utopian, what’s wrong with you?
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Just finished it… it was fine… A bit disappointing in the visual dpt. but I’m not gonna blame the show too much for it… it’s more an issue with recent shows being really, really, REALLY good, which makes it suffer by comparaison, but this is far above from the CW shit, and it’s a lot closer to the A-list shows, even if it’s not quite there.
They story is pretty good, although I wish they had spent a lot more time with Hutch, who was my favorite character in the show, tbh, rather than spend so much time in the flashbacks, for example… but I’m guessing they’re combining the Legacy and Circle books? (I’m not sure, I don’t think I read the Circle series).
Anyhow, unfortunately, I don’t see this show setting the world on fire like some other shows have (the Boys), but it’s certainly not without its merits, it does explore some pretty interesting ideas, so there’s that, but unfortunately they chose to spend too much time in the past and not enough in the present, giving more meat to the morality/ethical issues it’s trying to tackle.
We’ll see what they do for a second season, but all things considered, I wouldn’t be surprised if this gets canned after S2 or even after this first season… it’s the kind of show where they really needed to go all out with the budget and they just didn’t… =/
Also, I don’t know if anyone watched the Powers show that came out a while ago, but this kept reminding me of that show for some reason… can’t quite put my finger on why though…
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Also, I don’t know if anyone watched the Powers show that came out a while ago, but this kept reminding me of that show for some reason… can’t quite put my finger on why though…
Interesting comparison. Powers did not try as hard to maintain the look of the comic – though the comic was very stylized – while JL did stick closer to some of the designs and even shots in the comic. Still, the limitations of television/streaming budgets, production schedules and the software they all use – while far ahead of the 90’s shows – still provide a kind of generic similarity to the superpower scenes in all the shows from CW’s DC shows to The Boys.
There are more challenges to the adaptation in that Jupiter’s Legacy as a comic book was not Millar’s best version of that type of story. Really, it was something of a retread of his runs on The Authority and The Ultimates and was carried by the art more than the story anyway, and it didn’t have the heat or personality of books like Superior, Huck or Kick-Ass. Personally, I think Huck as either a movie or a series would’ve had more stand out appeal that Jupiter’s Legacy which feels like it is not that different from The Boys or Invincible or even Snyder’s JL. The Boys is funny, Invincible is animated, Snyder’s JL has the actual Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc. rather than copies while Netflix’s JL is… well, a show.
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Finished series 1 just now. Gonna get the criticisms out of the way first: Most of the present day arc was… I don’t want to say boring, but there was no hook to it. I didn’t care about anyone, the show didn’t give me reason to care about them, and it just threw stuff at the audience without any context as to why we should care. Like the Union is never clearly defined. Is it a superhero team? If so how big is it that Utopian doesn’t know who Ghost Beam is? Is it a literal Union for superheroes? Who knows? Baryon is loose? Oh no! Who’s Baryon? For that matter, who’s Blackstar? The whole thing with him is linchpin around which the entire present-day arc rotates and we know almost nothing there.
That said, I really enjoyed the flashbacks! That was a far more interesting and relatable story. I think the cast gave better performances here, possibly because it was more grounded in history and a bit easier to get into? But it also highlights how the present-day elements don’t work as well. I’m engaged in finding out about Skyfox betraying the Union, but more because George is a compelling character in the flashbacks than I want to find out what drives the modern day Utopian and Lady Liberty’s anxiety around him.
For the good elements of the present day, the standout is Hutch and his friends, who are amusing and a bit crap and it works a lot better than pretty much everything else.
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I finished the series and thought it was okay. I agree with Lorcan that the past story works far better than the present one. The present story just didn’t feel cohesive and the heel turn at the end could have been set up better.
I will say that the special effects were really bad for the series. The battle with Blackstar in the first episode looked absolutely terrible. It looked like something straight out of an early 1990s sci fi series. Watching the making of series for WandaVision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier, you realize that some things you thought were practical effects were actually CGI. Disney is spending money on their series because they want to attract and keep subscribers. Honestly, I think The Boys looks better than Jupiter’s Legacy. Unfortunately, this looked like a typical Netflix sci-fi series. While I don’t think every Netflix series has to be at Disney level, I think it would be beneficial if certain series got bigger effects budgets. It’s not like Netflix doesn’t have money to spend. I think Disney is setting a new standard for television series.
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I can see the faults but I have to say I am also up to episode 4 and wanting to watch more. The very slickly made Falcon and Winter Soldier is sat in a folder untouched for a couple of weeks at halfway through episode 3.
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I can see the faults but I have to say I am also up to episode 4 and wanting to watch more. The very slickly made Falcon and Winter Soldier is sat in a folder untouched for a couple of weeks at halfway through episode 3.
For me, I think they did the right thing to break the story into past and present and tell them both in the same season. It’s a storytelling device that works well here. If it had been strictly kept to the present, I think it would been a far worse project. Assuming it has future seasons, I hope the keep it up. While the comics had JL v1, JC v1 & 2, and JL v2, I don’t think that would have worked for television.
I also thought Josh Duhamel did a great job as past and present Sheldon. He was a pleasant surprise throughout the show.
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While the comics had JL v1, JC v1 & 2, and JL v2, I don’t think that would have worked for television.
If you buy the series now, this has changed so that it goes JC1, JC2, JL1, JL2. Meaning the original mini-series is now Jupiter’s Legacy Vol. 3.
It also means that if anyone picks up Vol. 1 based on the series, it won’t have anything from either period of the show in it at all.
Circle was fine, and Torres is a perfectly decent artist, but it always felt like filler while they waited on Quitely to be ready to work on the second mini. I don’t know why you wouldn’t put Quitely’s work front-and-center in selling the series.
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Shame they never finished vol.3… oh well…
Honestly, the show has a big writing problem, particularly in terms of time alocated to the past and the present… they spend waaaaaaay too much time in the past, sometimes in completely useless things, and at the same time they underdevelopped the present story and characters… like, anyone gave a shit about Brandon? ’cause I didn’t… he’s basically the trigger for the plot, yet they don’t do shit with him of the consequences of his actions…
And sure, Chloe had more time, but considering she and Hutch are actually the main characters, you don’t really feel that in the show at all, where it’s more about Sheldon and Walter all the way through.
I’m guessing all of that would change for a season 2, but the problem is, the general consensus ain’t very good on this show, so at this point I’m expecting Netflix will just can it. They fucked up…
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Meh… without Quitely I kinda don’t care all that much…
Oh also… I’m guessing it’s Tommy Lee Edward’s art in the opening credits then…
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It was just okay..I liked the structure of the flashback and the present day storytelling. But while the flashback was clearly building to the team getting their powers, the present day story felt slow and a bit rudderless. The final episode should have been them getting powers intercut with Utopian getting killed. As it is, the ending felt like a bit of a “oh, ok” moment, rather than a real “OMG😱” finale to get people excited about another season..Around episode 5-6 I had to go look at the trades to make sure I wasn’t misremembering that The Utopian was barely in them, and that it’s actually Chloe and Hutch’s story. But here they felt like side characters rather than the driving force of the story..I think there’s a good story to tell here with this cast. But the comic felt like it was flying through the story, this on the other hand felt plodding most of the time. Which is fine if you’re guaranteed multiple seasons to tell that story. But considering Netflix barely lets a show go beyond season 2…I’d have perhaps sped things up a tad..Not bad, not great, just okay.
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Oh also… I’m guessing it’s Tommy Lee Edward’s art in the opening credits then…
I thought it might be considering the style but the credits say it’s actually Jock.
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I’m surprised really it’s been that badly reviewed. It has its faults as we’ve discussed but I did enjoy it and just finished the series feeling I wanted to watch the next one. I found it to be on about par with The Boys which equally has good bits but faults.
The viewer score is a lot higher at 74%.
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Remember though that despite offering these %age scores Rotten Tomatoes is actually quite binary. If every single reviewer thought that it was ok but somewhat mediocre and flawed in places (which seems to be the general consensus) then it would have a 0% rating as they’d all be classified as negative.
Rotten Tomatoes is useful for identifying fantastic stuff and absolute crap, for the stuff that’s somewhere in the middle the %age scores are a lot less meaningful.
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Yeah definitely agree Dave, the flaw in Rotten Tomatoes is defining whether that 3 star review is positive or negative.
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Remember though that despite offering these %age scores Rotten Tomatoes is actually quite binary. If every single reviewer thought that it was ok but somewhat mediocre and flawed in places (which seems to be the general consensus) then it would have a 0% rating as they’d all be classified as negative.
Rotten Tomatoes is useful for identifying fantastic stuff and absolute crap, for the stuff that’s somewhere in the middle the %age scores are a lot less meaningful.
Yeah, Metacritic tries to give a more accurate number, averaging out all the review scores, but they also have a higher bar to entry for publications, so have much fewer reviews to go on.
Jupiter’s Legacy has a 45 from them, from 15 reviews: https://www.metacritic.com/tv/jupiters-legacy/season-1/critic-reviews
Metacritic also suffers from not knowing how to handle unscored reviews. This is especially a problem in their videogame reviews, where a lot of major outlets have stopped giving scores, and the ones that do give scores are almost always ridiculously positive. This led to situations like with Cyberpunk 2077 last year, where it was completely torn apart by everyone, but still had a score in the 90s for ages.
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So has everyone either finished or given up? I just watched Ep 4 and it was a mess. Maybe it was a mess because it was about Chloe. Ep 3 introduced Hutch. Because of the comics I expect them to be the heroes of the story. But I think it is incredibly lazy story writing to introduce your heroes at the bottom so that it is easy to see their progression. I agree with much of what is said here so i may skim 5.
I watched it all when it came out a few weeks ago and I can barely remember much of it now. It really is a mediocre product.
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I finished it in the first week and as I said I liked it, flawed as it was. They drag a lot of stuff out from what was (as is usual for Millar) a fairly short and punchy comic, but I think that’s tempered by the two timelines switching which retains some variety.
It does sag in the middle and gets better at the end, the 1930s portion is better once they start their expedition.
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So has everyone either finished or given up?
Just finished it, and I thought it was enjoyable enough really. But while I did like the characterisation bits in the past, it still took them too long to get to the point where they got their powers. I mean, the journey to the island and getting them where they needed to be, that was, what, another four episodes? And most of it felt like it was just Sheldon bumbling about and shouting “Get out of my head!!!”.
Whereas the story in the present took to long to go anywhere. I twist in the last episode worked well, but I feel like they should’ve gotten to that point earlier; a whole season just to get to that revelation is just too long. I mean, Agents of Shield took only half of the first season to get to that point (and got really great from there), and they’d still lost a lot of people by that point.
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If this is meant to be a trilogy, they are going to start shoving things into each episode.
It’s an eternal problem with US TV, even as we move to streaming. I don’t think they have any idea how long it will run. With Netflix’s ‘2 seasons and out’ concept if something isn’t a huge hit then this pace is a problem. It’s not universally true but in Europe they tend to plan for a finite run of something.
Now while the critiques weren’t great that’s not really relevant, it did show up as number 1 show across most countries so it may well pass the 3rd season test but you do sense they see this as ‘ongoing’ which troubles me a bit. I don’t know if people can get over the tradition of syndication and long runs being the defining marker for success. The pace they are moving at suggests they went in hoping for 7 or 8 seasons.
Game of Thrones rather against type suffered by voluntarily ending too quickly (probably because a more lucrative contact was on the cards) but outside of that it is more often the other way around. Knowing the Netflix policy I would have approached it as finishing up Millar’s story at the end of season 2 and then they can extend with whatever ideas he has for Requiem.
As I said before for all his faults decompressed storytelling is not one of Millar’s, he tends to run short and plough through plot. I believe the full series without the prequel stuff is just 10 issues long.
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If this is meant to be a trilogy, they are going to start shoving things into each episode.
Millar says he wants five seasons, which I don’t see happening. The only Netflix dramas to last longer than four seasons are House of Cards, OITNB, and The Crown, and they’re cancelling stuff earlier and earlier all the time.
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If this is meant to be a trilogy, they are going to start shoving things into each episode.
It’s an eternal problem with US TV, even as we move to streaming. I don’t think they have any idea how long it will run. With Netflix’s ‘2 seasons and out’ concept if something isn’t a huge hit then this pace is a problem. It’s not universally true but in Europe they tend to plan for a finite run of something.
Now while the critiques weren’t great that’s not really relevant, it did show up as number 1 show across most countries so it may well pass the 3rd season test but you do sense they see this as ‘ongoing’ which troubles me a bit. I don’t know if people can get over the tradition of syndication and long runs being the defining marker for success. The pace they are moving at suggests they went in hoping for 7 or 8 seasons.
Game of Thrones rather against type suffered by voluntarily ending too quickly (probably because a more lucrative contact was on the cards) but outside of that it is more often the other way around. Knowing the Netflix policy I would have approached it as finishing up Millar’s story at the end of season 2 and then they can extend with whatever ideas he has for Requiem.
As I said before for all his faults decompressed storytelling is not one of Millar’s, he tends to run short and plough through plot. I believe the full series without the prequel stuff is just 10 issues long.
It is.
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Canceling after less than a month is pretty fast for a streamer, no?
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Canceling after less than a month is pretty fast for a streamer, no?
It’s not unusual for Netflix.
I wonder if viewership declined over the course of the series and if a lot of people didn’t bother finishing the show.
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It’s not clear what metrics Netflix look at but it it probably something they can find out quickly and they’ve made decisions this rapidly before. It could be a cost to viewer ratio, speed of drop off of people watching. Their model is retention of viewers over same day ratings (which seemed OK by their top 10 charts).
Like I said, it’s a huge error to plan long term with these guys. Even more when adapting Millar’s breezy style of storytelling. He’s putting some amazing spin on the cancellation, that Supercrooks is part of the same story when in truth it isn’t at all outside of the little easter eggs he used to put in the comics. He is a bit of a spin expert but it’s a cancelled show and it’s not coming back any time soon. It also seems an unlikely choice to adapt Supercrooks twice in anime and live action although the article already makes an error saying the IP would expire when Netflix bought it outright.
It reminds me of Matt Fraction being interviewed when he did his Hawkeye book, he was given an ongoing title but knew that Hawkeye had never sustained a decent run in history without being cancelled so wrote everything in short arcs so it would be fine if the chop came. That would be my approach to a Netflix show.
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I think that might be poor wording in the article:
“With Netflix and Millar going in a different creative direction with the IP, and the talent options soon expiring”
Those are two separate reasons, rather than one sentence suggesting that the IP is expiring.
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Well fuck. I would’ve liked to at least see a second season of Jupiter’s Legacy, now that things actually got moving.
But they’ve got nobody to blame but themselves really.I wonder how much confidence there is in Supercrooks at Netflix right now.
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Canceling after less than a month is pretty fast for a streamer, no?
It was filmed ages ago,so it sounds like if they let it go much longer they would have had to pay the actors for a second season.
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wow… so surprising… not.
Unfortunately JL was very very flawed and worse than flawed: bland! which is kinda weird when you’re talking about Millar… he tends to be rather bombastic. Shame though, they had all the ingredients, they just mixed them is very stupid way… oh well…
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Remember the days when the head of Netflix was complaining that he just didn’t have any shows to cancel? We’ve come a long way from that.
Anyway, can’t say I’m massively surprised. I wonder when they’ll start second-guessing all the money they spent buying Millarworld off Millar?
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Anyway, can’t say I’m massively surprised. I wonder when they’ll start second-guessing all the money they spent buying Millarworld off Millar?
Well, given how apart from Supercrooks, which is animated and thus relatively cheap, nothing much seems to be happening, it feels like they’ve already started doing that.
Well, I suppose they could just keep publishing comics and make back the money very slowly.
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I predict lawsuits in the future.
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You gotta admire Millar’s business savvy… he’s really the only creator who comes close to Stan Lee in that regard, so good for him on cashing in that big fat check, but I doubt we’ll see a ton of MW content in the future… or at least new content, because I could see a Kick-Ass Tv show happening (they should’ve probably started with that), maybe something to do with the Kingsman series too, although I suppose those franchises might be tied to other studios right now.
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I predict lawsuits in the future.
What do you mean?
Just from what Christian said, if it ends up Netflix give up on adapting all the MW stuff they bought and leave it running as a comics thing, there’s not really much value in that for Millar, whose comics – let’s be honest – largely exist as pitches for screen adaptations. So I could see him wanting to get out of the deal, which would likely require some legal wrangling.
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Also, per sources, Jupiter's Legacy cost around $200 MILLION, reshoots and everything included, so this is a sizeable loss. https://t.co/z2BkndkIaH
— Borys Kit (@Borys_Kit) June 2, 2021
$200M for eight episodes is a ridiculous cost, especially for a property nobody cares about, where the cast has no real stars.
For reference, S1 of Stranger Things cost about a third of that.
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I predict lawsuits in the future.
What do you mean?
Just from what Christian said, if it ends up Netflix give up on adapting all the MW stuff they bought and leave it running as a comics thing, there’s not really much value in that for Millar, whose comics – let’s be honest – largely exist as pitches for screen adaptations. So I could see him wanting to get out of the deal, which would likely require some legal wrangling.
My understanding is that Millar is a Netflix employee now, they didn’t buy licenses from him, they bought his brand and his self-publishing company. I don’t think anything would stop him from quitting, setting up a new business entity and selling comics and licenses elsewhere. So unless he really wants to do something with the Millarworld titles that were part of the Netflix deal – many of them were licensed out to other companies at the time and remain so – he does have options.
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What the hell did they spend $200 million on?? Certainly not the cast! Or those costumes!
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I predict lawsuits in the future.
What do you mean?
Just from what Christian said, if it ends up Netflix give up on adapting all the MW stuff they bought and leave it running as a comics thing, there’s not really much value in that for Millar, whose comics – let’s be honest – largely exist as pitches for screen adaptations. So I could see him wanting to get out of the deal, which would likely require some legal wrangling.
I might be wrong but I thought Netflix acquired the rights to the Millarworld properties (that weren’t already at other studios) outright. I didn’t think it was a licensing deal for a certain period where there’s a way out, as with some of the other rights deals we’ve discussed in the past.
It’s not just the movie licenses either, the recent TPBs of Millarworld books have the Netflix logo on the spine where the MW logo used to be.
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Yeah, I know they bought him body and soul. I meant “deal” as in the sale and that he might want to get his brand name (and note: it’s not really a publishing company as is often said, as everything still goes through Image) and properties back, by arguing that Netflix aren’t (in this hypothetical) doing enough with them as per what was presumably promised in the sale agreement.
The sale only really makes sense for Millar as long as Netflix keep adapting his work. If they give up doing that he’s basically stuck with an uninterested company owning his brand name and work.
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I don’t think this scenario is that dire though for the deal.
I mean, it’s not a great sign when a production company buys not just the rights, but the entire ownership of a multi-part epic and then bails after the first part, especially with Magic Order getting scrapped in pre-production (though apparently it’s starting over). It’s been 4 years now and $230m+ and Netflix has one poorly received season of a quickly cancelled series to show for it. Unless either version of Supercrooks does well, it’s starting to look like a bit of a folly.
To me an example is Stephen King, half his adapted material is a load of shit but some of it is very good and they keep going back to the well.
There is a bit of difference though, as King’s work is sold for adaptation individually and he’s still his own master (and people know who he is, which, as you say, isn’t so much the case with Millar). He can always brush off a poor adaptation because he has some distance from it and his own output to fall back on. It’s quite different from if he had sold ownership of his entire back catalogue to, and become an employee of, say, whoever it was that did the 2017 Dark Tower.
There’s someone who did this kind of deal and ended up walking away from it after a while without seeing anything from their previous body of work (and possibly losing some of the rights to their own name) and I can’t for the life of me remember who it was.
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Unless either version of Supercrooks does well, it’s starting to look like a bit of a folly.
Not necessarily. The big rush at the moment is for IP that you own, and they got shitloads of that with the Millarworld deal.
Whether you like Millar’s comics or not (and they are a mixed bag for me in general), Netflix still have a huge amount of potential left to exploit with Supercrooks, Magic Order, Sharkey, Space Bandits, Empress, Reborn, Prodigy, Huck, and probably others that I’m forgetting that aren’t already with other studios.
Talking of which, outside of Netflix the Kingsman series is still in production and we also have Joe Cornish’s Starlight to look forward to.
And obviously that’s on top of previous stuff like Kick-Ass and Wanted which has already been successful.
I’ve never been a particular personal cheerleader for Millar (even though I’ve enjoyed a lot of his stuff), but I can recognise that he’s done well just to get as much made as he has already – some of it being pretty successful to boot.
I’m sure Jupiter’s Legacy only getting one season was disappointing, but I hardly think it’s a nail in the coffin for the Netflix stuff or for adaptations of his work more generally.
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Edit: This top bit is in reply to Martin and not Dave just to be clear.
Millar has sold the entire company. He was happy to make 15 million quid and walk away and then they offered him a staff job later, which is not part of the sale and a paid employee position (unlike if a company is sold and someone is given a director/major shareholder deal as part of the sale).
In the end it’s up to Netflix if they think they made an error on the Millarworld deal, they can even sell it on, but to me I think it’s getting carried away with the branding that the majority of viewers aren’t aware of. They didn’t make a very good product, even those of us most positive about it have to admit the production values weren’t good (makeup and VFX) and the plot progressed too slowly. They have 20 odd different products to do a better job on.
I think at the moment it’s their failing in producing the product rather than the failing of the deal or the brand. If there’s a run of flops then that changes.
It might not be a publisher in the sense that it owns presses and prints the books itself, but then neither is Image.
I don’t think any publisher prints its own books.
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Thinking on it more, Millarworld was probably better described as an IP holding company than a full-on publisher.
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I don’t think any publisher prints its own books.
That’s really my point. What do you have to do to count as a “publishing company”? It isn’t literally publishing the book physically that makes you a publisher.
Image is regarded as one of the major comics publishers but it has a very small staff and doesn’t do a huge amount itself to actually produce the books (including the writing and drawing of them).
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Millarworld was probably better described as an IP holding company than a full-on publisher.
Correct.
Having a bit of knowledge of the business publishing is essentially an organisational job, the bit between the creating of the work and the physical production and distributing of it. It’s pretty much that simple.
A publisher, be it Marvel or Harper Collins will look at submissions or maybe commission work, edit it, liaise with printers and distributors to get it sent out. They will also arrange the marketing and be responsible for payment and royalties. Only newspapers have traditionally printed their own material due to the short timelines.
Since Image did all of that work they were the publisher, Millarworld an IP holder, now Netflix owns the IP but otherwise the process remains the same.
Image as a co-operative thing veers a little from the norm as often a creator pays initial page rates and payments themselves but that’s not unheard of in prose publishing, sometimes an author may pay an illustrator or photographer or researcher in advance too.
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Publishers like Image have designers, marketing teams, legal teams, relationships with printing companies, distributors, retailers, and so on.
Companies like Millarworld have none of those things which is why they need publishers to publish things.
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What the hell did they spend $200 million on?? Certainly not the cast! Or those costumes!
Catering.
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