Watchmen (TV Series) Thread – SPOILERS INSIDE!!!

I’ve my recording set, and will try to find time to reread the book before then.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by paul f.

Paul told you 35 minutes ago.

For people asking about @watchmen…

The new @HBO series takes place after the events of the comic book series/graphic novel. What happened at the end of the comic book happened in this series. Not what happened at the end of the movie… pic.twitter.com/c47vYCJiPe

— Steven Weintraub (@colliderfrosty) October 17, 2019

Meh, I really liked the ending of the movie A LOT more, in part because I prefer the idea of framing Manhattanm but then again I doubt they’ll really spend a lot of time dwelling on the silly alien thing… we’ll see… any idea when this premieres btw?

Jon wrote:

Meh, I really liked the ending of the movie A LOT more, in part because I prefer the idea of framing Manhattan

It worked ok in the movie, but the trouble is that it doesn’t then give you the ‘other’ for humanity to unite against. Manhattan was so closely tied to the US that it would just encourage other countries to ally against them.

Dave wrote:

Jon wrote:

Meh, I really liked the ending of the movie A LOT more, in part because I prefer the idea of framing Manhattan

It worked ok in the movie, but the trouble is that it doesn’t then give you the ‘other’ for humanity to unite against. Manhattan was so closely tied to the US that it would just encourage other countries to ally against them.

Well yes and no, Manhattan was shown to go a bit crazy on international TV and disappeared. Plus he attacked the US as well. Plus, in the end it doesn’t really matter cause of Rorshach, but say his journal gets leaked, the alien was just a show, whereas John is real, and he’s a real threat wether Adrian planned it or not (since he went a bit crazy on TV and went AWOL), I don’t think the US gmvt would trust John very much after that whole ordeal either.

In the end, it would’ve been better to use the movie as a template, because 1) They can use it and 2) That’s what most people will be familiar with and 3) Just leave Alan Moore alone =P

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Jon.

Anonymous wrote:

What’s interesting about Watchmen is just how “off” its world is from reality. The movie didn’t capture that very well since it basically had to cut out everything in the story that wasn’t directly connected to the heroes.

 
I think they did that on purpose though, I don’t think they were trying to recreate the look and feel of the book’s world because they could’ve just done that.

Anonymous wrote:

The set up feels like a premise for a different show shoehorned into the world of Watchmen, though.

I think Lindeloff makes a lot of sense when he says that back when Watchmen was written, the Cold War and the brink of destruction was the background, and that you have to look for the big current issues to give the TV show its background. I think if you follow that line of thought, the setting actually makes a lot of sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Other than financial interests in who owns the property

There you go.

Anonymous wrote:

It does make me ask the question then as to why it’s The Watchmen? Other than financial interests in who owns the property, why not just come up with a completely original series rather than exploit this one yet again?

It was always going to be a Watchmen show. That was the starting point. They considered doing a straight adaptation, but decided to do this instead. Going by the Rolling Stone interview, the later episodes will tie in to the comic more explicitly, but he doesn’t want to spoil it. https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/watchmen-damon-lindelof-interview-896780/

Once you decided you weren’t going to do a straightforward adaptation, how did you land on this version as what you wanted to do with the material?
I have to be a little bit cagey — the idea that made me want to do this take on Watchmen has not been presented to you yet. It’s the big idea of the season. That was the idea that came first. You’ll know it when it happens.

Ye but that free buzz from the name alone is too juicy to pass up.
 
With this project though, compared to Joker, it seems the intent was always to do something Watchmen, and not a vanity project shoehorned into a big name, so I’m cool with it. I still don’t get the obsession with Watchmen, but whatver… honestly the thing that ticks me off the most about this is the yet another slap in the face to the movie… like for real, it was a good movie.

I liked it.

Clearly its Lindelofs attempt to subvert the tv tropes of the genre, like Moore did with the comic tropes 30 years ago.

Todd wrote:

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Jesus Lindof. Even when public opinion is starting to sway to him, he manages to be insufferable.

Yes, he just reposted it:

Many ticks and many tocks since I first wrote this. Watchmen changed my life. It taught me how to tell stories and 33 years after I first read it, I am still in awe of this masterpiece. Love or hate the finished product, here’s what we did and why we did it.
1d

lorcan_nagle wrote:

Has he learned how to write a conclusion or denouement yet? I’m getting guardedly hopeful for the show on account of the reviews, but still unsure if I want to spend a whole bunch of time on his writing.

I’m just going to hold off til it’s finished and see how angry everyone is to work out whether to bother.

Watched it tonight.

Half an hour to digest what I just watched and I thought it was a load of bollocks

Just typical Lindelof

Music was good though

I’ll give it a few episodes to change my mind but if you didn’t like The Leftovers (I thought it was fucking shite – lindelof standing wanking into a mirror, basically) you probably shouldn’t waste your time on this.

I don’t really have a desire to commit to a weekly watch either but this seems like something tailor made for breaks to dissect each episode and speculate.

How is the Tulsa boy still alive? Why does rain = baby squids? Was that concurrent footage of Dr Manhattan (I didn’t catch the caption)?

I missed some stuff delivered over the radio too – 6 month wait periods for guns was commented on by my wife – is that also where they mentioned mobile phones and the internet being banned?

Andrew wrote:

I missed some stuff delivered over the radio too – 6 month wait periods for guns was commented on by my wife – is that also where they mentioned mobile phones and the internet being banned?

The internet isn’t banned, it hasn’t been invented until recently. https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbodata/series/watchmen/peteypedia/01/the-computer-and-you-memo.pdf

Andrew wrote:

Was that concurrent footage of Dr Manhattan (I didn’t catch the caption)?

It said “Exclusive NUDE interview with Dr M! Up Next!”

The first episode got an A grade from AV Club; here their other writers weigh in – all positive:

https://tv.avclub.com/we-watched-the-watchmen-the-a-v-club-reacts-to-the-pi-1839213453

Chris-S wrote:

Just typical Lindelof

This is what I like.

I know it’s not for all, probably a minority, as I find most people are more driven by plot but I love something about everything Lindelhof has done. I understand why it frustrates some but I love his characters and ideas. For all its many faults on the landing I miss Lost and the great characters and OMG moments.

Let’s get inside the world of Watchmen… some pdfs from that world:

https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia

After reading all that, it will be interesting to see Mr Petey appear in person. episode 3

I was listening to the Pilot/Empire podcast today and TV Reviewer Boyd Hilton has been given the first 6 episodes to watch. He was very, very enthusiastic and said episode 5 was a big one.

Yes, they said the intention is if they carry on it’ll be a different story in the same world.

garjones wrote:

Yes, they said the intention is if they carry on it’ll be a different story in the same world.

Is the story itself even in the same world? There are a lot of little clues in the Tulsa classroom that something under the surface may be changed in this world. On Mars, if you go back and watch it, the structure that Jon destroys is virtually identical to the mansion that Veidt rides to. I’ve assumed that the servants in the mansion are some sort of clones or androids that he’s used the technology from his squid project to develop, but at the same time, perhaps they are people that Jon’s created for a Veidt who he’s imprisoned for some reason. There is no reason that Jon cannot be on Mars and on Earth at the same time, after all. Or all over the world in copies, if he wants to be.

HBO’s Watchmen Addresses Race Politics in a Way the Comic Never Did

Andrew wrote:

There is speculation that Irons is actually playing Dr. Manhattan rather than Veidt.

There’s definitely something going on there.

He’s never called Veidt, only the master. I’d bet his servants are Jons creations – probably based on a young Jon/Janie.

With that said, his personality is too petty and mean to suit Dr Manhattan.

But we do know that Dr Manhattan taking on a human form has been discussed on the show.

I guess Dr. Manhattan in his naked blue glory will be saved for last and be like the CGI dragons of GoT…

Now you know that a CGI Dr. Manhattan would steal the show so I take it that it is all set up for now…

Patience

As I mentioned in the What Are You Watching? thread, the thing about Lindeloff and Moore’s WATCHMEN is that he values many parts of the comic that were ignored by the movie. Obviously, the whole strange Island and Movie production storyline in WATCHMEN where Viedt hires genius artists and scientists to work together on a secret tropical island to come up with this elaborate science fiction film was the inspiration for LOST’s island. Also, the time jump sequences were related to the way Dr. Manhattan, like Vonnegut’s Billy Pilgrim, becomes “unstuck” in time.

Of course, Lindeloff treats it more like Groundhog Day. If you found yourself reliving your past, wouldn’t you try to change what happened? But Moore and Vonnegut both had different and more serious reasons for saying that nothing would change. After all, even knowing what would happen, you would still be the one making the choices, so why would you think a different choice would be better for you in the long run? Like Vonnegut once said, “we don’t know enough to say what’s good news and what’s bad news.” The scary thing isn’t realizing that the choices we make are what make us who we are, but that the choices we make merely indicate who we really are. Making a different choice doesn’t essentially change anything about us.

The primary problem, so far, with the first two episodes is that they seem messy. I recently watched GLASS which I heard was a disappointment to many. I was surprised by it. No matter what people think of the final film, one thing Shyamalan is not is messy. As unnatural or awkward as his filmmaking can be, it is very focused, direct and specific. So was the original graphic novel WATCHMEN, and honestly, so was the movie. The television series, so far, seems less focused except in the various “Easter Egg” nods to the source material.

I really think this will improve with Jean Smart’s Laurie, though. I think the series so far is much more interesting when Veidt is on screen, and another original character can only improve the direction it’s going.

So, this is pretty good.

Loved this episode. Jean Smart is fantastic.

They put up a podcast with Craig Mazin and Lindelof discussing the first three episodes:

https://www.hbo.com/video/watchmen/seasons/season-1/episodes/03/videos/podcast-ep-1

Another one after Ep. 6.

I don’t know if the Veidt scenes are every day. Someone pointed out that the first cake had one candle, the second had two, and last night’s cake had three.

I like each episode but it feels like they are restarting the story each time. Laurie Blake is a much better protagonist than Angela Abel while the rest of the characters seem still a bit underdeveloped. Unlike most HBO shows, WATCHMEN doesn’t rely enough on the actors to drive the story forward. But Smart and King brought it up a notch.
Just feels like there is still too much left to explain for the actors to really take action.

I didn’t know who Jean Smart was until Legion, but she is fantastic.

She’s a great Laurie.

Keane’s reference to the caged owl must be referring to Dan being in prison, surely?

Anonymous wrote:

I didn’t know who Jean Smart was until Legion, but she is fantastic.

She was also outstanding as the matriarch of the crime family in season 2 of FARGO.
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SPOILERS HERE — Am I the only one, or is it fairly obvious that Senator Keene was behind the lynching of the police chief and also arranged the “terrorist attack” at the cemetery with the intention of doing something “heroic” in order to gain points in his Presidential campaign?

Behind the attack in the cemetery, think so. Not sure about the lynching. But he was involved in the White Night probably too, along with the chief.

Btw, this week documents shows a little insight into this.

https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia

Keene was asked about “Russia” in the press scrum outside the cemetery in this episode.

If Watchmen gets a second season, I hope it’s set in the Soviet Union. Their perspective of Dr. Manhattan and the Cold War would be fascinating.

Oh, I just noticed that AMERICAN HERO STORY is kind of a pun on and parody of another real AHS – American Horror Story.

Anonymous wrote:

What did it say? I haven’t read it in a while, but I felt that – as you would expect – the government kept most of the details secret. How many people knew his name was Jon Osterman? It didn’t seem like that was well-known outside of the people around him.

 
I always assumed a lot of info got “leaked” with Rorshach’s Journal… he was most certainly in the know about a lot of things. Plus there were a lot of books and interviews in the OG Watchmen anyways… Adrian himself leaked some info about Jon to the press to make him upset. I don’t think it’s all a secret tbh.

Anonymous wrote:

He’d be pretty old by now. Laurie was in her late 20’s when the original series took place, so she’s age appropriate, but I think Dan was at least ten years older. Still, he could probably kick some butt.

It’s never specified in the comic I don’t think but I assumed he’d be about the same age as Veidt.
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Jeremy Irons is 71 so that would make Veidt around 37 or so in the original book. So actually I think Jean Smart is a little older at 68 than she should be but she can pass for younger quite easily, until I checked that on Wiki I would have said she was around 60.
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Anyway so Dan would probably be in his early 70s on that logic.

Dave wrote:

The Wikipedia entry for Dan gives his birthday as 18 September 1945, so presumably it must have been mentioned somewhere (my Watchmen knowledge isn’t encyclopedic enough to know it off the top of my head!).

Dave wrote:

(my Watchmen knowledge isn’t encyclopedic enough to know it off the top of my head!).

Dave wrote:

my Watchmen knowledge isn’t encyclopedic .

paul f wrote:

Under the Hood says Laurie was born in 1949, so she’d be 70:

I think Jean Smart is around 70, so accurate casting. Though I think the mandatory retirement age in the FBI (in this reality) is 57.

Veidt is a little older (born in 1939, I think) at around 80 which is ten years older than Irons in real life.

As far as Veidt’s manor, looking back at the first time we see him, the first shot starts at the end of the Owl Ship crash, then it pans up to the starry sky and that dissolves into what looks like dark, slick asphalt or pavement that borders the grassy lands of his estate with the sounds of sea and seabirds over the shot. So that area could be anything from some artificial barrier around the island, the surface of some moon or planet, or maybe even the surface of an island that was devastated by nuclear explosion.

Unless it’s already been revealed, I think his prison may be on the island where he sent all those artists, psychics and genius scientists to work on his “squid” project – what they thought was a film. So, essentially the island in Watchmen that inspired Lindeloff’s take on the Island in LOST.

Veidt scene first episode

However, the apparent vacuum and freezing cold barrier that Veidt seems to be trying to find a way through would imply something more extraterrestrial, but the asphalt-like surface certainly did not look like Mars. Also, you’d need more than a catapult to escape from that. I think there must be some sort of physical barrier that he has to get through – maybe something interdimensional. That the Island is surrounded by or inside a kind of bubble that he has to be able to survive passing through.

Jon wrote:

Maybe he’s just in the Arctic, where his base used to be… I mean, Adrian already had an artificial habitat somewhere in there, plus he’s supposed to be the smartest guy right, he’d know that if he was on another planet, a home-made suit and some fur wouldn’t really help him get to earth. So yeah, it makes more sense for him to be trapped in the arctic.

That’s possible. In the Petey-Pedia, though, it said that there was an expedition to Karnak, his Arctic stronghold, and it was found abandoned. So, they could have been lying or he’s somewhere else.

I’m just thinking that Lindeloff would be attracted to revisit the Island, though. Not just because of LOST, but also that it was taken out of the movie entirely and is rarely mentioned in discussions of WATCHMEN though it has some of the most interesting moments. For example, how is the disappearance of all these exceptional people ever explained and could it be possible that they had some exceptional friends who would want revenge after they researched Rorschach’s journal with their own resources?

This episode was disappointing.

All world building and I didnt like the direction it went in. Hong Chau character was … fine.

This was the first episode I thought had by the numbers sequences too, like the Sister Knight dressing sequences. Maybe it’s a reference to Batman & Robin, but it sucked and was unnecessary.

Booo this episode!

I liked the episode. I’m enjoying the Laurie/Angela buddie cop stuff, and Lady Trieu is an interesting antagonist. I’m looking forward to seeing what’s up with her daughter (clone?).

Confirmation that the Veidt scenes are taking place in a different timeframe with him saying he’d been there four years, when he’s been missing for seven (and four candles on the cake). Loved the weird fetus fishing too.

I wonder if we’ll see Lube Man again.