Star Trek Discovery: Spoiler discussion

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#40820

Thought it might be worth having somewhere to talk about the new season with spoilers.

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  • #40833

    I watched episode one and thought it was ok but it suffered from the lack of the ensemble. I presume they’ll be back by the end of part two and we’ll have a little more idea of the shape of the setup for this season.

    Aside from the details around Michael’s journey and the mystery over the Discovery, this felt like a pretty bog-standard plot, and I was a little disappointed that there wasn’t a bigger or more dramatic impact of her being in the future (or that there weren’t more pronounced differences in society by then).

    But her gradually learning about the future-history worked fine, the visuals were really quite impressive, and the lack of the Federation was quite a welcome twist and sets up an interesting backdrop for this new season. A bit more of a wild-west feel.

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  • #40873

    Season 4 confirmed

    https://intl.startrek.com/videos/star-trek-discovery-starts-production-on-season-4

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  • #40877

    If Memory Alpha is to be believed, next week is going to focus on the crew of Discovery, with them, Burnham and Book meeting up at the end.

    I enjoyed episode 1 for the most part. The Andorian and Orion shitty cops were funny, as was Burnham on the truth drug. The action was enjoyable, the Icelandic scenery looked beautiful and was a nice excuse to break out the camera drones. Using CG to add holograms everywhere was a great way to give that empty-ass warehouse an interesting look without spending much money of like actual things to put in there.

    Aesthetic things: I loved the hell out of the hologram/smartmatter stuff everywhere, especially the bed/desk in Sahil’s room. The goons’ outfit looked a lot like TNG-era Romulan uniforms, and given there’s at least one episode about the Romulans and Vulcans this year there might be something there? Also, the really tall Orion that walked away from Book is played by Mary Chieffo’s stunt double form series 1 and 2, she also played Yeoman Colt in the last two episodes of series 2.

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  • #40892

    So… Michael “The Burn” Burnham?

    Odd that nobody thought the wild eyed rando claiming to be a time traveller was just a crazy person.

    It would be rather amusing if Michael just so happened to land on one really shitty planet but the rest of the galaxy is doing just fine, Federation or no Federation.

    Handkerchiefs: a must have accessory for the 32nd century gentleman.

    Book and his cat seem cool. Interested to see a Burnham free episode next week.

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  • #40897

    It would be rather amusing if Michael just so happened to land on one really shitty planet but the rest of the galaxy is doing just fine, Federation or no Federation.

    Not sure if it’s just me, but it all had a slightly Star Wars feel to me, in terms of being a slightly shitty backwater type place. Even down to the Han Solo roguish smuggler type transporting dangerous animals.

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  • #40909

    I enjoyed the first episode. Lots for a fan to like, (seemingly) nothing of consequence happens so it can also be picked apart, and then both sides can argue.
    Basically, it’s good to be back.

    Something I was wondering about, Michelle Yeoh’s Philippa Georgiou.
    Wondered if I forgot something and she never went with them (she has her own spin-off after all, so how could she be there?).
    But there she is on the poster.
    I’m assuming she will leave before the end of the 3rd season to go to the new section 31 show.
    But they made a point about no time travel tech. Although this could be available in the Mirror Universe.

    I guess this means the spinoff could happen any-when (not con-current with Strange New Worlds).

    Then a bit of searching around and I found this:
    However, Georgiou did briefly work for Section 31 in the gap between Star Trek: Discovery seasons 1 and 2
    Eh, I just don’t think so, but if they have a long term plan then a story from ‘that time’ for it’s first season, and then an updated ‘returned’ Georgiou for it’s 2nd season and on would allow Georgiou to stay with Discovery until the end of it’s 4th season.
    I’m probably thinking no.

    What is section 31 about? Well, now I’m thinking some things will be quite different than what I originally thought.
    Do some searching. I’m not the first one to ask.
    Time-travel show? Mirror Universe show? (now I need to see Shatner with an ‘Evil Goatee Cameo’ (EGC))
    __________________________

    Star Trek franchise ‘mapped out till 2027’ as Alex Kurtzman promises “years and years” more of Discovery
    “When I say that, it’s not like it’s set in stone,” he added. “It’s just, ‘Here’s a plan. Here’s what we’re looking at. Here’s how the different shows are going to drop.’”

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  • #41083

    It was fine I guess, but it just reinforces that Discovery is never going to be a great show, the writers just don’t have it in them.

    I nearly hurt myself rolling my eyes at “The Burn” because it’s a shit idea it’s somehow going to be Michael’s fault. :unsure:

     

    At least it’s better than Picard.

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  • #41092

    Should’ve called it The Mick.

  • #41093

    At least it’s better than Picard.

    In fairness, you could say that about literally anything.

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  • #41102

    Here in the US, CBS is airing the first season of Discovery because COVID-19 has fucked up their programming schedule.

    I’m four episodes in and this show is pretty bad.

    It’s like someone had an idea for a sci-fi series and thought the only way it had a chance to succeed was to slap the Star Trek brand on it. It does not fit at all into ST canon though it tries its best to shoehorn it in to it. The only way it works is if you look at the entire series existing in an alternate timeline. It’s a different timeline form the Prime and Kelvin ones.

    I’ve read spoilers for the series so I’m not optimistic about having a better actual viewing experience.

  • #41122

    I’m four episodes in and this show is pretty bad.

    Aren’t you happy you didn’t pay for it?

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  • #41123

    Sounds like he’s already paying for it.

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  • #41127

    It is interesting.

    I listen every now and again to John Siuntres’ Word Balloon podcast. He’s a massive old school Trek fan and teams up with another one to review Disco and they pretty much hate everything about it. Usually for the primary reason that ‘it isn’t Trek’.

    I am not a Star Trek fan really, I found the Next Generation especially quite an annoying show. The perfection of the Federation meant it lacked tension, every other episode resolved by technobabble.

    I like Discovery quite a bit. It’s not brilliant but it entertains me enough and I think like Star Wars it suffers a lot from subjective expectations of what it should be over objective analysis of what it is.

     

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  • #41128

    It’s pretty much where I am with it too. Aside from some of the movies and the odd episode here and there, I hadn’t seen any of it before watching Discovery and I enjoyed it for being a fun romp.

    I watched some old TNG episodes ahead of Picard that people had picked out as the best, and they were fine, but I felt happy enough with the highlights and didn’t feel the need to check out the rest of it.

    I keep hearing the complaint that Discovery isn’t proper Star Trek for whatever reason, but as an outsider I just look at it and see big starships and the Federation and lots of scenes on the bridge with the captain and crew, and loads of aliens and sci-fi concepts and a generally humane outlook and it all feels pretty Star Trek to me.

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  • #41133

    I keep hearing the complaint that Discovery isn’t proper Star Trek for whatever reason, but as an outsider I just look at it and see big starships and the Federation and lots of scenes on the bridge with the captain and crew, and loads of aliens and sci-fi concepts and a generally humane outlook and it all feels pretty Star Trek to me.

    In my experience the people who claim DISCO “isn’t Trek” cherry-pick. Either the things they claim DISCO does that weren’t in old-Trek actually are, or DISCO has done all the things they say they don’t at least once. It’s fine to not like the show, of course, but there’s a drive with a lot of people to rationalise their taste as “correct”, so DISCO or other shows need to be objectively bad, especially if they tie their identity to a franchise.

    Like I saw a comment the other day from someone who claimed that CBS weren’t being logical because they keep renewing nuTrek shows. But surely the logical conclusion is that the shows are actually more popular than Some Guy On YouTube claims?

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  • #41135

    I keep hearing the complaint that Discovery isn’t proper Star Trek for whatever reason, but as an outsider I just look at it and see big starships and the Federation and lots of scenes on the bridge with the captain and crew, and loads of aliens and sci-fi concepts and a generally humane outlook and it all feels pretty Star Trek to me.

    Same here… but I only have the movies (and some iconic imagery) as reference… either way: yeah the series is pretty bad, and mainly because of the writing ’cause the production side of it is perfectly fine.

  • #41138

    In my experience the people who claim DISCO “isn’t Trek” cherry-pick. Either the things they claim DISCO does that weren’t in old-Trek actually are, or DISCO has done all the things they say they don’t at least once. It’s fine to not like the show, of course, but there’s a drive with a lot of people to rationalise their taste as “correct”, so DISCO or other shows need to be objectively bad, especially if they tie their identity to a franchise.

    My own impression (like I say, based on limited experience) is that the main difference is that Discovery is a bit pacier, a bit more dynamic and prone to fast-changing storylines and the soap-opera twist rather than a willingness to be a bit slower and more considered and cerebral about things. I may be way off but that’s how it feels different to the older Trek that I have seen.

    Then again my favourite Trek movie was First Contact so I’m quite happy with the slightly more popcorn approach.

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  • #41139

    My own impression (like I say, based on limited experience) is that the main difference is that Discovery is a bit pacier, a bit more dynamic and prone to fast-changing storylines and the soap-opera twist rather than a willingness to be a bit slower and more considered and cerebral about things. I may be way off but that’s how it feels different to the older Trek that I have seen.

    I rewatched Peak Performance, one of the better TNG series 2 episodes last night and definitely got the same vibe around DISCO being pacier. That episode is full of pregnant pauses, long establishing shots that could stand to be 10-30 seconds shorter, and just a lot of weird pacing choices. Like the episode opens with a shuttle containing a strategist arrives at the Enterprise as Picard’s log plays, but the narration ends and there’s no dialogue for a good few seconds as Riker and the Strategist cross the bridge and enter the Ready Room. It adds nothing to the episode.

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  • #41150

    Disco is a weird show in that, despite its best efforts to sell its main character, I find all the others far more intetesting. Especially Captain Killy, sorry, Tilly.  Stamets and Saru are good too.  The one character they do need to space? Georgiou.

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  • #41152

    My own impression (like I say, based on limited experience) is that the main difference is that Discovery is a bit pacier, a bit more dynamic and prone to fast-changing storylines and the soap-opera twist rather than a willingness to be a bit slower and more considered and cerebral about things. I may be way off but that’s how it feels different to the older Trek that I have seen.

    I rewatched Peak Performance, one of the better TNG series 2 episodes last night and definitely got the same vibe around DISCO being pacier. That episode is full of pregnant pauses, long establishing shots that could stand to be 10-30 seconds shorter, and just a lot of weird pacing choices. Like the episode opens with a shuttle containing a strategist arrives at the Enterprise as Picard’s log plays, but the narration ends and there’s no dialogue for a good few seconds as Riker and the Strategist cross the bridge and enter the Ready Room. It adds nothing to the episode.

    I guess part of it is just the changing trends of TV and filmmaking. Not many franchises span as many decades as Star Trek, but you could compare (say) a modern Bond or Doctor Who their ’60s or ’80s counterparts and probably see similar trends.

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  • #41157

    I’m someone who has grown up on Star Trek. As a kid I would watch TOS repeats. I remember watching the animated series when it first aired! From the late 1980s to the early 2000s, I had a regular fix of ST.

    This is a totally nerd thing but what ruins Discovery for me is the complete disregard for continuity. It just doesn’t fit. Enterprise had its problems (quite a few!) but Discovery is far worse. It seriously takes me out of the series. I wouldn’t describe myself as a die hard ST fan but having watched as much as I have, I think I’ve developed a subconscious bias when it comes to continuity.

    And the fact that the characters and story aren’t compelling to me doesn’t help either.

  • #41164

    This is a totally nerd thing but what ruins Discovery for me is the complete disregard for continuity. It just doesn’t fit. Enterprise had its problems (quite a few!) but Discovery is far worse. It seriously takes me out of the series. I wouldn’t describe myself as a die hard ST fan but having watched as much as I have, I think I’ve developed a subconscious bias when it comes to continuity.

    Aside from the visual update, it does fit continuity though.

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  • #41165

    We have to consider where Todd is in the show of course. I’m far from an expert on Trek continuity but at the end of season 2 a lot of what could be seen as the anomalies, like the existence of the spore technology, are explained .

     

     

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  • #41166

    We have to consider where Todd is in the show of course. I’m far from an expert on Trek continuity but at the end of season 2 a lot of what could be seen as the anomalies, like the existence of the spore technology, are explained .

     

     

    Even before that, the Spore Drive isn’t entirely out of place though. Trek is replete with amazing new technologies that show up for an episode or two and then never get mentioned again. If anything the Spore Drive is different because they actually explain why it remains unique.

  • #41175

    I guess part of it is just the changing trends of TV and filmmaking. Not many franchises span as many decades as Star Trek, but you could compare (say) a modern Bond or Doctor Who their ’60s or ’80s counterparts and probably see similar trends.

    Absolutely, and it’s worth noting that until Gene Roddenberry and Maurice Hurley left the show, TNG was closer to a remake/stealth continuation of TOS than a sequel or its own thing. It very much felt like a 60s TV show with 80s production values at times, so it can double the awkwardness if you’re comparing it to a contemporary TV show.

  • #41189

    Section 31 being so out, loud and proud that they’re swanning around with lots of ships in plain sight is one that needs to go back into the box marked ‘covert, secret organisation’, everything else is easy.

    I do like S31 but they are best as covert villains.

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  • #41220

    I do like S31 but they are best as covert villains.

    Or at least power-walking everywhere

  • #41365

    There were a bunch of DS9 Morn looking dudes in the first episode. That made my day.

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  • #41366

    There were a bunch of DS9 Morn looking dudes in the first episode. That made my day.

    Barring evidence to the contrary, I assume that one Lurian is actually Morn, and he’s still alive in the 32nd century working as a heavy for the Orions and Andorians

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  • #41384

    Aesthetic things: I loved the hell out of the hologram/smartmatter stuff everywhere, especially the bed/desk in Sahil’s room.

    Yeah, loved that, too. I also think Dave’s right in that there was a slightly Star-Wars-ish feel to this episode. It was fun. Bit weird how shocked Michael was that the Federation was gone, I mean it was like one or two hundred years old when she left and there really wouldn’t be much of a reason to assume it’d still be around almost a thousand years later.

    All those crying over the federation bits were annoying anyway, but on this show, a few quivering lips and silent tears rolling over faces count as a relative win. Even with the pathos of those three standing around a flag at the end there and nobody cracking a joke or farting.

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  • #41404

    Episode 2 was probably overall as good as 1, but I feel that by being able to skip the exposition it let the show be more of a blueprint for what the crew’s 32nd century adventures will be like. The mock Western sensibilities were silly enough to be fun, but also allowed for a sense of tension because you’re expecting the tropes from that genre. Saru and Tilly had some great character moments, Reno is kinda becoming space lesbian (Sterling) Archer, and I’m here for it.

    In worldbuilding, Zareh repeatedly called the Federation the V’Draysh, the syncope term for it first heard in Calypso – even though various characters this week and last week also said Federation. I wonder if it’s the term for the Federation in the Pidgin language Zarah and his men spoke and presumably Cosmo was speaking last week, or maybe it’s just a derogatory term for what’s left of the Federation?

    I think the show is starting to balance the directors and DPs’ desire to do fancy camera shots with furthering the storytelling and being more practical, and there are some fantastic examples this week – Stamets waking up in Sick Bay, and the shots of Detmer spacing out were done brilliantly. And even though the ship has half the crew complement it had in series 1 right now, it definitely feels more crowded in the corridors now than it did then.

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  • #41502

    I never realised until I saw it how much I’d missed Saru’s silly wobbly-arm walk.

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  • #41505

    I think the show is starting to balance the directors and DPs’ desire to do fancy camera shots with furthering the storytelling and being more practical, and there are some fantastic examples this week

    Yeah, I really noticed this during the shipbound scenes.

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  • #41506

    Also, the way Michael was framed on the screen in that final scene had me convinced they were going to go for a bigger time-gap and pull back to reveal she has kids or a family or was pregnant or something.

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  • #41511

    I never realised until I saw it how much I’d missed Saru’s silly wobbly-arm walk.

    It almost looked like he and Tilly were going to hold hands as they walked out the airlock, and it got me thinking to myself – how would you hold hands walking with Saru? Would you have to sway with him?

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  • #41525

    I never realised until I saw it how much I’d missed Saru’s silly wobbly-arm walk.

    It almost looked like he and Tilly were going to hold hands as they walked out the airlock, and it got me thinking to myself – how would you hold hands walking with Saru? Would you have to sway with him?

    Either that or constantly get yanked from side to side.

    I imagine if you spent enough time with him you’d just end up swaying yourself subconsciously.

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  • #41542

    Saru might have chosen Tilly to go make a nice first impression but they would have been stuck in a lot of trouble if not for Michelle Yeoh’s bad assery.

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  • #41544

    Maybe Saru knew that would happen. :rose:

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  • #41545

    I thought there was going to be a scene at the end showing that.

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  • #41581

    Saru might have chosen Tilly to go make a nice first impression

    Which is about the dumbest thing anyone could ever think… but hey he’s a pink alien, I’ll forgive him.

    Yeah, also, I somewhat enjoyed the first episode… the 2nd is just back to fake-emotional teary-eyed speeches and bad acting… oh and Tilly. Yeah no, fuck that…

    Wasn’t there a show with Cpt. Pike in the works? I’d give that a try.

  • #41600

    the shots of Detmer spacing out were done brilliantly

    Yes it was, if that’s what they were showing.
    Maybe I’m programmed to look for the villain hiding everywhere, but what is that implant (augment?) on the face/eye?

    Could Control be hiding in there, repairing itself?
    And I’ll further speculate that if so, if Georgiou is destined to go to the past, maybe that will to (and we are still seeing a story about the birth of the Borg).

    So, a quick little search on Lieutenant Keyla Detmer to see if anybody is thinking like my paranoid self:

    This Star Trek: Discovery season 3 mystery could hint at a major villain’s return – Newsarama

    Star Trek: Discovery’s Biggest Questions Ahead Of Season 3 Episode 3 – Screen Rant

    Star Trek: Discovery’s Latest Episode Raises Questions About Control – Cinema Blend

    So yeah, people are speculating. Could just as easily be a fake out, and PTSD.

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  • #41603

    She just realised that library book she took out is going to incur some serious overdue fees.

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  • #41605

    Yes it was, if that’s what they were showing.
    Maybe I’m programmed to look for the villain hiding everywhere, but what is that implant (augment?) on the face/eye?

    Could Control be hiding in there, repairing itself?
    And I’ll further speculate that if so, if Georgiou is destined to go to the past, maybe that will to (and we are still seeing a story about the birth of the Borg).

    Continuing to fight against Control would be a bit… meh. There’s enough for the crew to contend with already. And Detmer having psychological issues she needs to get through is more interesting.

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  • #41609

    Continuing to fight against Control would be a bit… meh. There’s enough for the crew to contend with already.

    I agree, although (as always) it’s in the writing.
    If I love it, I’ll look back and see no other way.
    If it sucks, then it’s ‘why did you do that?’

    If the reboot taught me anything, don’t listen to the audience (or don’t party and make decisions while high).
    Just because it was the second movie, you didn’t have to have Khan.

    (Side note: also, I can forgive 1982 casting the same person from the late ’60’s and having a Mexican in the role of an Indian (assuming South Asian going by the name Khan Noonien Singh).
    But shame on 2016 for casting a white guy. Just blatantly wrong.)

    Back to the main point, I LOVED the reboot. These people just get it and the franchise in the right hands.
    Benedict Cumberbatch and Peter Weller are in the sequel? Oh man! Awesomeness upon us!
    No, they managed to fuck that up. And I honestly dislike the 3rd one even more (or probably gave up deep down and it didn’t inspire any attempt at a re-watch).

    If this is a ‘Borg Beginning’ story, then just make it awesome, don’t consume the whole season, Georgiou leaves with (it?, and then that’s a big clue about her show).
    Why do I think that? Anyone on the peripheral with this franchise like the Borg, and they know it.
    “The Best of Both Worlds” is absolutely huge for bridging the gaps to the mainstream.
    It’s an easy thing to bring into story discussions.
    _____________________________

    Anyways, It’s taking me forever to post (doing multiple things).
    But as I brought up Cumberbatch & Weller wasted in a movie, I have a hard time thinking of anything else.
    Bastards! How the?! Put me in a room with them…

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  • #41644

    Continuing to fight against Control would be a bit… meh. There’s enough for the crew to contend with already. And Detmer having psychological issues she needs to get through is more interesting.

    Well, you know, it could be a slow burn and something for the next season.

  • #41709

    That first episode was hard going.  Second episode was better, though “parasitic ice”? Sounds cool but the idea melts under scrutiny.

    Was cool when I thought they were going to kill off Georgiou, but of course not.

    Maybe it’ll improve now they’ve got the cast back together.

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  • #41987

    Sooo… I started watching the 3rd episode, not five minutes in we learnt that:

    Dilithium became scarce… ok fine.

    Then, Dilthium went inert (so what’s the point of it going scarce?)

    And all the ships exploded… because of an inert thing? Wait how does that work?

    That event is called “The Burn”… oh gee… I wonder what that could possibly mean?

    Oh and the Federation disappeared “overnight” because sure, why not… I mean I guess every politician, official, government employee, soldiers, embassadors, etc, etc, etc AND a gigantic bureocratic interplanetary structure just went poof all of a sudden… riiiiiight… got it.

    But wait there’s more… because time traveler Michael BURNham (get it? subtle… u_u) became a courrier so she could get Dilithium and search the galaxy for clues about “The Burn” *groans*…

    hey wait a second… didn’t Dilithium go inert? And ships that were using it went boom? YOU JUST FUCKIN TOLD ME 5 SECONDS AGO!!!! xD

    Wow… that’s quality writing right there… bravo!

     

  • #42075

    Quite liked Episode 3, fun stuff.

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  • #42076

    Quite liked Episode 3, fun stuff.

    Yeah, I was a bit surprised when there was a conflict after they got to Earth, but it was handled really well, and I liked the reveal of the raiders and how Saru and Burnham brought them together. I also like that it’s showing how you can have SF tech that provides an idyllic post-scarcity life and yet have a universe that’s fractured by another vector for scarcity. It’s probably too complex an idea for the writers of DISCO to investigate in the framework of the show, but the implications are clear and it exists in the margins nicel.y

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    Avatar Ben
  • #42077

    Uh oh, they’ve got a Wesley on board now…

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  • #42079

    For all that people are complaining that Discovery isn’t proper Star Trek, that episode felt like about the Star Trekkiest thing I can imagine.

     

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  • #42081

    For all that people are complaining that Discovery isn’t proper Star Trek, that episode felt like about the Star Trekkiest thing I can imagine.

     

    But but but there was a trans person in there! This clearly goes against Gende Roddenberry’s vision!

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  • #42083

    When Michael talked about becoming a courier I did briefly hope they were going to run a version of the title sequence called Star Trek Delivery.

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  • #42087

    When Michael talked about becoming a courier I did briefly hope they were going to run a version of the title sequence called Star Trek Delivery.

    They should so do that as a Short Trek

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  • #42114

    Didn’t care much for episode 3 really. Felt like two thirds of it was either reunification crying or people telling Michael that there’s something different about her. Some of the worst writing ever, someone should really tell those guys about the whole showing-not-telling thing. And as usual they spend so, so much time on all the pathos and the big emotions… all of that would’ve made sense if they’d had Michael spend half the season or so with Book and then be reunited with the crew (which they should have done really), but for us as viewers it was just two episodes (and honestly it was just a day for the crew). I also kept wondering why they didn’t make it five years instead of one if Michael is supposed to have changed so much. Anyway, same thing with the fucking tree at the end. Always the same problem with Discovery: they want as many big emotional moments as they can have, but they never do the work for it.

    The plot itself was alright, though the big solve and how it happened was a bit daft. The conflict was a bit of a nod to Expanse, wasn’t it? The guy even looked a bit like a Belter.

    I like Adira and that there’s a Trill symbiont around now.

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    Avatar Ben
  • #42116

    They should so do that as a Short Trek

    Maybe they could use it to explain Michael’s super-fast-growing hair.

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  • #42117

    Didn’t care much for episode 3 really. Felt like two thirds of it was either reunification crying or people telling Michael that there’s something different about her. Some of the worst writing ever, someone should really tell those guys about the whole showing-not-telling thing. And as usual they spend so, so much time on all the pathos and the big emotions…

    It did feel like there was a lot of simpering in that first part.

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    Avatar Ben
  • #42122

    Also, fuckin seriously dude, she was “alone” for one year… that’s nothing. Had she been waiting for them for a decade, sure, lots of changes and shit… but one year? please… so dumb. Also: None grows their hair that fast…

  • #42132

    Book was certainly more interesting than the bulk of the Discovery crew. Hopefully he returns sooner rather than later. I want to know what the deal is with Chekhov’s fat cat.

  • #42497

    Thought this week’s episode was ok, but a bit overwrought, and I got lost a bit with the Trill stuff (presumably this is all a known Star Trek concept?).

    Again though, apart from the excessive simpering this week’s episode felt very Star Trekky to me. Almost excessively so.

    The mealtime scene was probably the best part.

     

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  • #42515

    The mealtime scene was probably the best part.

    Really? What were they eating?!

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  • #42527

    The mealtime scene was probably the best part.

    Really? What were they eating?!

    Mandalorian.

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  • #42546

    There’s a lot of potential in Saru embarking on a series of Michael Scott style management motivational techniques that blow up in his face.

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  • #42548

    Thought this week’s episode was ok, but a bit overwrought, and I got lost a bit with the Trill stuff (presumably this is all a known Star Trek concept?).

    Yeah, first appeared in a one-off story in TNG, later one of the main characters in DS9 was a joined Trill who actually changed hosts before the end of the show.

    Again though, apart from the excessive simpering this week’s episode felt very Star Trekky to me. Almost excessively so.

    The mealtime scene was probably the best part.

    So I really enjoyed the Trill arc, probably because I had more cultural investment from watching DS9 and really enjoying it. Plus, Blu Del Barrio knocked their performance right out of the park, switching to that confident tone and timbre after Adira and Tal integrated.

    The plot on Discovery was good, but felt a bit more pat. Like everyone’s just apologised and/or hugged it out and they’re good to go. I hope the plot continues on a bit more, even if it’s just the odd scene of Detmer and Culber talking stuff out.

    I do love that Saru is still asking the ship’s computer for advice on how to Captain.

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  • #42549

    I want to know what the deal is with Chekhov’s fat cat.

    She’s a queen

  • #42554

    I do love that Saru is still asking the ship’s computer for advice on how to Captain.

    The development with the computer was potentially interesting, presumably a lot more to come there.

    I do find it funny how scenes like the last one always end up using movies that are old classics for our era as much as for theirs. It would be great if the computer suggested an ancient film comedy that would bring the crew together and they ended up watching Dumb And Dumber or Dude Where’s My Car or something.

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  • #42558

    I liked the Discovery crew bonding stuff, but it was again very noticeable that they only have Tig Notaro for a few episodes a year, as there was no reason Jet wouldn’t be in any of those scenes.

    The Trill stuff was okay, but the resolution was a bit too easy. I’d rather they have spent more time with Adira and the other Trill at the end, given how big a deal human/symbiont bonding is supposed to be.

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  • #42561

    I do love that Saru is still asking the ship’s computer for advice on how to Captain.

    The development with the computer was potentially interesting, presumably a lot more to come there.

    I do find it funny how scenes like the last one always end up using movies that are old classics for our era as much as for theirs. It would be great if the computer suggested an ancient film comedy that would bring the crew together and they ended up watching Dumb And Dumber or Dude Where’s My Car or something.

    I was eyerolling a bit at that on my first watch through, but I put it on again and noticed that when The ship’s computer/Zora recommended Buster Keaton to Saru, it was because silent comedy was appealing to more species, and I can get that. It was a good excuse at least.

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  • #42828

    I really enjoyed last week’s episode.

    I think I didn’t mention them here, but on Instagram they are posting “logs” each week from a member of the crew, nothing vital but the last one was fun, heh:

    https://www.instagram.com/startreklogs/

    1) Burnham https://www.instagram.com/p/CGFhOQZnFOZ/

    2) Booker https://www.instagram.com/p/CGXXUfBHNy3/

    3) Georgiou https://www.instagram.com/p/CGp5FwRlhAq/

    4) Stamets https://www.instagram.com/p/CHGPRlKAu7S/

    5) Culber https://www.instagram.com/p/CHYRi7YBtks/

    6) Linus https://www.instagram.com/p/CHYXO2Ugmap/

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  • #43033

    Interesting idea that Discovery’s computer is evolving now.

    Other than that, didn’t like the episode for the usual reasons.

  • #43042

    David Cronenberg?!

  • #43085

    Yep.

    And the Voyager-J and the USS Nog

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  • #43133

    Cronenberg was great in this.

    This week’s story was ok, but I’m finding the performances a little distracting. Everything feels a bit amped-up, a bit soap opera or theatrical in places, and it undercuts what could be more meaningful moments by overdoing them.

    I don’t know if it’s the acting or direction but stuff like the glee at seeing the headquarters and a lot of the more emotional interactions felt a bit laughable because of how broad it all was, when a slightly more subdued take would have been more powerful.

    Also, it’s a bit tiresome when even big moments for other characters (like the one near the end here) have to end up coming back to how brilliant and amazing Poochie Michael is.

    Other than that though, I quite enjoyed it. This is the kind of difficult-integration-into-the-future stuff I was hoping for this season. And the interrogations sequence and “dysfunctional” bit were good fun.

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  • #43134

    Also, was there particular significance to Voyager being there (does it tie in with an old Voyager episode or something?) or is it just “oh look it’s Voyager”?

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  • #43135

    Also, was there particular significance to Voyager being there (does it tie in with an old Voyager episode or something?) or is it just “oh look it’s Voyager”?

    Yeah, it’s just a continuity nod, and the suggestion that Voyager is as hallowed a ship name as Enterprise for generations to come.

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  • #43140

    Ah ok.  I wondered whether there had been a Voyager story where they travelled into the future and this was seeing the other side of it or something. As someone not familiar with a lot of Star Trek you can sometimes overthink these things and assume more significance than there is.

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  • #43161

    Jesussss… does every episode need to feature people sobbing over some emotional shit? Was that how the old ST shows were? I kinda can’t imagine Kirk & Spock or Piccard having a sobbing session every fuckin episode.

    I should really drop this show… but then again there ain’t much else these days… u_u

  • #43192

    They don’t seem to get the notion that having a lead character does not require everything to always revolve around them.  Especially on an ensemble show which Trek is.

  • #43222

    Ah ok.  I wondered whether there had been a Voyager story where they travelled into the future and this was seeing the other side of it or something. As someone not familiar with a lot of Star Trek you can sometimes overthink these things and assume more significance than there is.

    IIRC the furthest into the future we’ve seen before this is the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise, where they showed the Enterprise-J in the 29th Century. This is presumably the time war they’ve mentioned a couple of times this year.

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  • #43233

    Admiral Shut The Fuck Up Michael is a highly welcome addition to the show.

    And all of a sudden Georgiou is talking to David Cronenberg? I guess I missed that casting story. Seemed like maybe they were setting up the two of them doing something naughty together. Time travel? Section 31?

    I do enjoy that the big problem this season is essentially that the Federation’s wi-fi has gone down. Hopefully they at least go back for that bloke and his flag from earlier in the season.

    Sorry if this is the end of one of the few human shaped furniture that is the bridge crew to show a personality. What was her plan anyway? Watch the seeds for a bit then be unemployed and homeless?

    Seriously, Michael. Shut the fuck up.

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  • #43234

    Wow, was that ever cool to see a cameo by Cronenberg.
    This has only served to get my brain going and I hope he’s a regular on the Section 31 spin-off.

    Oooh! Have cameo’s from David Lynch!
    Already have Twin Peaks alum Kenneth Welsh as Admiral Senna Tal.
    okay, maybe that’s a bit too much…

    DAVID CRONENBERG’S SHOCKING STAR TREK: DISCOVERY CAMEO IS A GAME-CHANGER – Inverse.com
    The revered film director just beamed into the 32nd Century. Here’s what it might mean.

    how does this guy know about the Mirror Universe and Terrans unless he’s from Section 31? Within Starfleet, Section 31 is the clandestine black ops group that essentially knows about everything “regular” Starfleet members don’t. This, naturally, includes the Mirror Universe…

    STARFLEET ENLISTS THE FLY DIRECTOR DAVID CRONENBERG IN TENSE STAR TREK: DISCOVERY CLIP – SYFYWire.com

    can get a video of the scene in question

    At the beginning of Georgiou’s debriefing, two holograms ask her questions about her nature as a Terran — a human from the Mirror Universe. But, the person who really seems to be in charge of the holos is Cronenberg’s new, shadowy character. What does he know about the Mirror Universe? Is he from the regular Star Trek timeline?

    ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Review: David Cronenberg Is a Federation Officer in Episode 5 – IndieWire.com
    This show keeps getting more ambitious — now with a first glimpse of the ultra-futuristic Federation that remains.

    “Star Trek: Discovery” is filmed in Toronto. Cronenberg is based in Toronto and one of Canada’s national treasures. This is a match made in the cosmos.

    Anyway, Georgiou thought Cronenberg was putty in her hands, even finding a creepy way to blink at just such a frequency as would cause his holographic AI’s to short out. And she made fun of his glasses! “I wear them because they make me look smart,” he said.

    But then when she leaves the “Dead Ringers” director’s company, she seems in a daze. Could he have been the 32nd Century version of a Section 31 agent, and has he done something to recruit Georgiou to his cause? Or has he done something even more sinister?

    It seems oddly similar to what’s been happening to Detmer, now prone to spells of just staring off into space not reacting to whatever’s happening around her.

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  • #43252

    This week’s story was ok, but I’m finding the performances a little distracting. Everything feels a bit amped-up, a bit soap opera or theatrical in places, and it undercuts what could be more meaningful moments by overdoing them.

    I don’t know if it’s the acting or direction but stuff like the glee at seeing the headquarters and a lot of the more emotional interactions felt a bit laughable because of how broad it all was, when a slightly more subdued take would have been more powerful.

    Also, it’s a bit tiresome when even big moments for other characters (like the one near the end here) have to end up coming back to how brilliant and amazing Poochie Michael is.

    Heh. This is exactly how I feel after every episode. It bothered me less in this one; it was very solid stuff overall. I suppose what I liked most was that for once, there was a lot of focus on no-nonsense type characters – with that new Admiral guy and Cronenberg at least we now have two characters who won’t break into fucking tears at the drop of a hat.

    David Cronenberg?!

    Yeah, that was a real WTF moment there. Loved it.

    Hey, is this a rivalry between Star Wars and Trek thing? Are Mandalorian and Discovery in a competition of casting the best indie cult directors of movie history in supporting roles? Because that’d be pretty fucking cool.

    Jesussss… does every episode need to feature people sobbing over some emotional shit? Was that how the old ST shows were? I kinda can’t imagine Kirk & Spock or Piccard having a sobbing session every fuckin episode.

    We’re doing bets now at home. I hit pretty close, I said three times crying, but the same person twice; it was three different people. But still, pretty close.

    Georgiou and her battle of the wills with Cronenberg really was the standout sequence this week. Loved the whole Hannibal Lecter vibe. I hope Cronenberg’s character stays and becomes more central to the story.

    Oh, and the weird lullaby thing is somehow connected to the Burn, yeah?

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  • #43253

    They don’t seem to get the notion that having a lead character does not require everything to always revolve around them.  Especially on an ensemble show which Trek is.

    You know, it strikes me that a lot of the problems I have with Trek right now are similar to the ones that made me stop Doctor Who in the end.

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  • #43265

    Was I the only one who hated the super perky annoying hologram AIs?  Also thought Cronenberg was wasted with Georgiou, who is even more indulged than Michael.

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  • #43266

    Oh, and the weird lullaby thing is somehow connected to the Burn, yeah?

    No, it’s going to turn out to be All Along The Watchtower and they’re all Cylons.

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  • #43277

    On the bright side, let’s take a moment to appreciate that the show no longer has to spend time on Ash.

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  • #43771

    After initially feeling like this week’s episode was going to be dull filler, it was actually maybe the best so far this season.

    I like that the dull and predictable stuff about freeing the slaves and blue-Rick-Wakeman was dealt with fairly briskly and efficiently (and was worth it for that cool shot of the ship coming in by flying between those buildings), leaving them a fair amount of time to focus on the character stuff, which generally worked pretty well.

    It felt like the characters were treated a bit more honestly and with a bit more nuance this episode. Particularly the Saru-Michael relationship.

    Michael is overdue facing some consequences for acting as she does, and that was the key to this episode and made for a sense of conflict and drama that hasn’t always been present in the show. But at the same time, it was balanced enough that you felt for both of them in that situation.

    The addition of the Admiral saying that he might have actually backed the mission was a nice touch and makes Saru more than just the reasonable authority figure – he’s making mistakes in the role of Captain too.

    I also liked the effects this episode with the new fancy gadgets and Discovery upgrades. Although I still think it’s a little odd that no-one else would have stumbled across spore-drive technology in the intervening 900 years – maybe that’s still to be explained or perhaps I missed something addressing it.

    There are still slightly too many soap-opera moments, gags that don’t work (like the lizard-man’s teleporter) and awkward swearing, and there’s still a tendency to overplay scenes that should be more low-key, but by and large this was a decent episode.

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  • #43773

    I largely agree with this – except I thought Linus randomly beaming in was hilarious and I don’t mind the swearing. The rescuing the slaves story was pretty by the numbers but really it’s there to reinforce the Andorian/Orion alliance as a major threat to the Federation, to further Burnham’s plot of not properly learning her lessons, and the give some more intrigue for whatever’s happening with Georgiou.

    I assume other people might have figured out the existence of the mycellial network but weren’t able to figure out the organic component to the spore drive, or weren’t willing to augment someone to operate it- Stamets broke Federation law to do so, after all.

    I really liked the character work on Discovery as well – Stamets reaching out to Adira is a big leap forward for him, especially contrasted with how he snapped at Tilly a couple of weeks ago. And on that note, I think the writers have found a good balance for her this year, she’s not as OTT on the comedy front as she was early in series 2, but still has funny bits and is still sweet and impulsive and doesn’t quite get Starfleet decorum. Also, Ryn, the Andorian slave who’s antennae were cut off to punish him? He was played by Mary Wiseman’s husband!

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  • #43774

    I really liked the character work on Discovery as well – Stamets reaching out to Adira is a big leap forward for him, especially contrasted with how he snapped at Tilly a couple of weeks ago. And on that note, I think the writers have found a good balance for her this year, she’s not as OTT on the comedy front as she was early in series 2, but still has funny bits and is still sweet and impulsive and doesn’t quite get Starfleet decorum.

    Yes, I agree. With all of these characters it’s about finding a balance and making them feel three-dimensional rather than broad and one-note. The Stamets scene was nice. And Saru has become far more developed a character than he was.

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  • #43778

    Also: those little fixit robots we keep seeing shots of on the saucer (and which we see in the opening credits for this season) are going to become more important at some point, aren’t they.

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  • #43816

    There’s something oddly comforting about the idea that even that far in the future we’ll still be using lunch trays in canteens.

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  • #43905

    Also: those little fixit robots we keep seeing shots of on the saucer (and which we see in the opening credits for this season) are going to become more important at some point, aren’t they.

    Yeah, I thought that too.

    There are still slightly too many soap-opera moments, gags that don’t work (like the lizard-man’s teleporter) and awkward swearing, and there’s still a tendency to overplay scenes that should be more low-key, but by and large this was a decent episode.

    Yep. It really was a pretty good episode. At this point, I’m pretty sure that the formula for the show is, the lower the number of people crying, the higher the quality of the episode.

    Ambivalent on Linus worked some of the time, didn’t some other times. And there was some theoretically pretty nicely written banter between Michael and Philippa that didn’t work because Michelle Yeoh can’t do understatement. Also, speaking of Yeoh, I still wish they’d get somebody in who can properly choreograph fights; this is such a waste. But it was nice to have an episode with Philippa in charge, she’s like the only character in this show who properly knows to have fun.

    What is that moment that Georgiou’s mind goes back to?

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  • #43908

    What is that moment that Georgiou’s mind goes back to?

    I don’t think we know yet. It seems like a bunch of stuff from the mirror universe – either memories or something Cronenberg has implanted.

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  • #43917

    Yeah, I was wondering whether it’s something he actively did to her or whether it’s some kind of trauma brought back by the news that the Mirrorverse is gone (for her). Maybe something to do with her original Michael? They’re doing well with this, it’s the plotline that’s currently most interesting to me on this show.

    Speaking of Mirrorverse Michael Burnham, we never did find out what happened to her, did we? I mean, she’s a thousand years gone now, so I’m not expecting them to bring her back, but it’s kind of a shame that we never met her.

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  • #43920

    Speaking of Mirrorverse Michael Burnham, we never did find out what happened to her, did we? I mean, she’s a thousand years gone now, so I’m not expecting them to bring her back, but it’s kind of a shame that we never met her.

    She probably died while trying to track down Lorca. Though given Prime Lorca survived the destruction of ISS Buran and was in captivity somewhere according to one of the novels (which are considered canon until contradicted by the show), Mirror Burnham might be out there too.

    The two speculations I’ve seen on Georgiou’s flashbacks are either her killing her mother to become Emperor, or a point that Mirror Burnham attempted to kill her.

  • #43962

    Well, that was a pretty crappy episode.

  • #43985

    What didn’t you like about it?

  • #43999

    So looking around, and I’ll just drop some stuff.

    Oh yeah, Cronenberg’s glasses could indicate he’s from the mirror universe.
    I take it Georgiou uses shaded contacts?

    There’s been lots of references to the Short Treks episode “Calypso”

    Alone in a V’draysh escape pod… then hears the voice of Zora. He believes Zora to be alive, but instead it is the Discovery’s computer, which has been evolving…

    Discovery easter eggs – Inverse

    …”V’draysh” is a syncope of the word “Federation,” Chabon confirmed this back in 2018.
    …Craft mentions that the people of Alcor IV (his home planet) have been at war with the “V’draysh” for at least ten years…

    ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Theory: The USS Discovery Is Evolving Into Something We Have Seen Before

    Is the Sphere Data merging with the ship’s computer and/or evolving into Zora?


    Zareh talks of the “V’Draysh” in “Far From Home”


    Discovery’s final Class C shuttle

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  • #44000

    What didn’t you like about it?

    Let’s see – it spends the majority of its time on the two worst characters in the show – Michael and Georgiou, so yeah, that’s more than likely it.  Episode was immeasurably better every time it went away from those two – liking Vance as well.

  • #44039

    Speaking of Mirrorverse Michael Burnham, we never did find out what happened to her, did we? I mean, she’s a thousand years gone now, so I’m not expecting them to bring her back, but it’s kind of a shame that we never met her.

    She probably died while trying to track down Lorca. Though given Prime Lorca survived the destruction of ISS Buran and was in captivity somewhere according to one of the novels (which are considered canon until contradicted by the show), Mirror Burnham might be out there too.

    The two speculations I’ve seen on Georgiou’s flashbacks are either her killing her mother to become Emperor, or a point that Mirror Burnham attempted to kill her.

    She pops up in IDW’s Discovery Succession comic series. It doesn’t end well.

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